The OP mentioned an analogy to cola for which I would like to finish for him if I may; If WOW is Coca Cola Classic, then Rift is New Coke, a product introduction that was sadly thought out, greatly marketed and ultimately "fizzled" away.
You're missing the part where New Coke was overwhelmingly hated by the public. Rift is not. It's a massive success, so your analogy doesn't hold water. Oh and the public didn't need 30 days to find out that they hated New Coke btw.
People didn't hate New Coke, they had never tasted it til day 1, or in this case month 1. What "we" (as an avid coke drinker), hated was the proposed removal of coke and its replacement. Coke Classic is a result of the backlash. And as analogies go, you can only carry them so far.
The OP mentioned an analogy to cola for which I would like to finish for him if I may; If WOW is Coca Cola Classic, then Rift is New Coke, a product introduction that was sadly thought out, greatly marketed and ultimately "fizzled" away.
You're missing the part where New Coke was overwhelmingly hated by the public. Rift is not. It's a massive success, so your analogy doesn't hold water. Oh and the public didn't need 30 days to find out that they hated New Coke btw.
People didn't hate New Coke, they had never tasted it til day 1, or in this case month 1. What "we" (as an avid coke drinker), hated was the proposed removal of coke and its replacement. Coke Classic is a result of the backlash. And as analogies go, you can only carry them so far.
Ummmm yeah I was alive at that time...so I know for a fact that people hated new coke. nice try though. The fact that there was going to be no 'classic' yet, only caused a bigger issue. People tried it. Said...omg I want my old coke back. Difference here - people tried Rift and are leaving WoW in droves. So yeah your analogy doesn't work.
I dunno... I remember people freakin out about it that hadn't tried it. Course I'm a Pepsi person myself... and the entire clear Pepsi debacle :-P
But seriously, I doubt that there will be a majority of people who played Rift is gunna say.. this blows I'm going back to WoW. Most are just writing the game off if they don't like it and looking elsewhere.
P.S. I would like you to define that "massive" success standpoint if you're going to use it. Please refer us to cold-hard numbers defining the sales of Rift and the population after one month please. I can make up random statistics on a whim if I chose to but you need to back up your "success" arguement as I believe we aren't far enough in to make ANY sort of reasonable conclusion. DCUO probably had better 1st month sales than Rift (to be fair) and let's look at how that's doing not 3 months in.
The OP mentioned an analogy to cola for which I would like to finish for him if I may; If WOW is Coca Cola Classic, then Rift is New Coke, a product introduction that was sadly thought out, greatly marketed and ultimately "fizzled" away.
You're missing the part where New Coke was overwhelmingly hated by the public. Rift is not. It's a massive success, so your analogy doesn't hold water. Oh and the public didn't need 30 days to find out that they hated New Coke btw.
People didn't hate New Coke, they had never tasted it til day 1, or in this case month 1. What "we" (as an avid coke drinker), hated was the proposed removal of coke and its replacement. Coke Classic is a result of the backlash. And as analogies go, you can only carry them so far.
Ummmm yeah I was alive at that time...so I know for a fact that people hated new coke. nice try though. The fact that there was going to be no 'classic' yet, only caused a bigger issue. People tried it. Said...omg I want my old coke back. Difference here - people tried Rift and are leaving WoW in droves. So yeah your analogy doesn't work.
People leaving wow in droves, ha ha ha!!!! You best be able to prove that statement with factual numbers otherwise sounds more like numbers pulled out of a place where the sun don't shine.
There's too many choices in the mmo market right now to have to put up with anything. We're the paying customers, ghostcrawler's attitude is just bad. Until he is gone I will not consider a return to that title. I know I am but one and it will have no real effect on WoW, but I'm really enjoying the other titles I've moved to. I forgot my computer can do graphics this good!
We all know that not all games appeal to all players. We also know that there will be folks that like to come to forums like this and tell us that this game is great and of course some that would like to tell us that it's not worth investing the time.
As with all things, its your point over however you describe it... it's your point of view. So don't get hung up on a post from a player that wants to post negative comments on a forum for a Game that we all enjoy.
He/she has her home and we have ours... (ours is nicer )
To the OP. I'm not really sure why this makes Rift bad. Perhaps you were ust commenting on the other post that Rift is "Good", but just becuase the game is similar to another game that is successful doesn't make it a bad game. I think, because Rift, is so much like WoW, as far as mechanics go, it makes Rift a game that is predictable to play. That isn't a bad thing in my mind.
Things that make a game "bad" for me evolve around monotony and boredom. I don't think Rift is bad becuase it is similar to another game out there. If I play WoW I get bored almost right away. If I play Rift, becuase it is new, I don't feel that same monotony and boredom. I actually feel refreshed. The leveling is a good speed, the graphics are quality, the combat is fun, PvP is great, (because I am an assassin) and overall the game style is immersive. Sure, there are a few things that could be improved upon, but by no means is this game bad.
I look at DCUO and a few other games. Those to me are bad. I get bored right away and don't know what else to do in the game besides quest. When I don't know what to do besides keep questing, not grouping with people beucase no one likes to talk to people, I get bored fast. That to me is boring. There is enough to do in Rift to keep an ADHD mind at bay. And thankfully I am appreciating it.
WoW is the 'established standard' of MMO's. WoW did bring 'some' new things to the table, but for the most part, WoW learned and took features from other MMO's. They assembled a pretty healthy grouping of 'best practices' for nearly 85% of the MMO market/player base. But now... the only thing that really stands out about WoW at this point is the subscription numbers that is has.
As other games launch, I think they utilize WoW's success and attempt to build WoW 2.0... with variations and twists. Each trying to present their own unique innovations ontop of a familiar layer/foundation.
RIFT is no different. And as it's been said dozens of times already, that's not really a bad thing. Not if the game wants to capture a large player base.
And for the WoW fans.
The group of Dev's that work on WoW now are in place to attempt to maintain the numbers. This isn't the same group of driven and hungry dev's/designers that made the game in the first place.
WoW is streamlined with very little choice or opportunity to customize your character. With less/limited choices, the game is 'simple'.
RIFT's soul system offers quite a few choices for players. This is the first time since SWG (preNGE) and the skill tree/profession tree system that they had that I feel like I can tweak my player into something that I enjoy playing.
I can't do that in WoW. No matter how big and grand players want to believe that WoW is.. their Dev's staff is no longer able to nimbly spin on a dime and introduce change that players request. Furthermore, they are lazy and resting on their accomplishments. As I have said before, they refuse to address long time requests and produce the true fit/finish to the game that so many players have requested.... maybe they can't? Maybe they are 'locked in' to what they have and governed by so much change management/control that they just can't. Too bad, really.
But in steps RIFT. A new game with lots of promise. Sure, it's not perfect. It's far from it. But it's not so far that it can't be brought in line. And the game is new enough and the dev's seem very anxious to please their customers.
While Rift does things similarly to WoW, it's not a WoW clone. It uses some similar gameplay concepts, but even many of those have differences/improvements over WoW. WoW and Rift are in the same classification of MMO -- Themepark -- but again, that doesn't make one a clone of the other.
Those people who complain that Rift is "a WoW clone" are going to be sorely dissapointed by TOR and GW2. Why? Because the "more of the same" they're sick of being in Rift because it's 'too much like WoW'; is going to be the same in those MMOs as well.
Why?
Because that's just how it is.
There's two general design philosophies for designing an MMO: Themepark, and sandbox.
Sandbox MMOs emphasize freedom, complexity, and non-linear or gated gameplay. Of course, these also suffer from people complaining from "lack of content" because there are no clearly defined objectives.
Themepark MMOs on the other hand, are more about 'balanced' gameplay and pre-designed encounters (quests, instanced dungeons, etc). These have more obvious content, but the gameplay is more gated and linear.
Now clearly the MMO market, yes you the consumers of MMOs, have largely shown that they prefer the Themepark methodology over the Sandbox methodology. So what do publishers and developers do? They make more of what looks popular, more themepark MMOs.
Which is what Trion has done. They've chosen the themepark design methodology and gone with it. That's why a lot of the core principles of Rift are similar to WoW, because they're both the same type of MMO. It has nothing to do with one 'copying' the other, and everything to do with the fact that it's just how you design a themepark MMO.
If Toyota makes a car with four wheels, one engine, one steering wheel on the left side, etc, it doesn't mean they're copying Ford. It just means they're following the industry standard for car design.
Which is the same for Rift compared to WoW. Just because it has similarities in it's core design, does not mean one is a clone or copy of the other.
So in closing, if Rift is "too much like WoW" for you, that's your opinion, no one is making you paly it. But the never-ending claims of "WoW clone" are just ridiculous. Rift is not WoW, it jsut shares some similar game design concepts. Sorry to dissapoint, but many of those same concepts will also be used for GW2 and TOR, and for many, many, other MMOs in the future. If this is not something you like, then it doesn't mean that those games are flawed, simply that you're burnt out on themepark MMOs.
People leaving wow in droves, ha ha ha!!!! You best be able to prove that statement with factual numbers otherwise sounds more like numbers pulled out of a place where the sun don't shine.
Numerous large Guilds are leaving WoW and have left WoW for Rift. There are tons of people in our guild and alliance that have come from WoW. How many? Hundreds. Not ten or twenty, but hundreds.
This is from my experience and I'm sure it's an isolated case. /sarcasm
I like Rift and I'm surprised at how well it plays on a variety of machines. That being said, it has its flaws, but if you were to ask me to pick Rift or WoW, I'd pick Rift.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
While Rift does things similarly to WoW, it's not a WoW clone.
Yes. It is. And no, I'm not burned out on "themepark MMOs", I'm burned out on WoW clones. How is that so hard to understand? Not every themepark game is a WoW clone. I'm not asking for a sandbox game here.
While Rift does things similarly to WoW, it's not a WoW clone.
Yes. It is. And no, I'm not burned out on "themepark MMOs", I'm burned out on WoW clones. How is that so hard to understand? Not every themepark game is a WoW clone. I'm not asking for a sandbox game here.
Judging by some of the comments in this thread, some people think WoW is everything an MMO is and will be in the future.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
While Rift does things similarly to WoW, it's not a WoW clone.
Yes. It is. And no, I'm not burned out on "themepark MMOs", I'm burned out on WoW clones. How is that so hard to understand? Not every themepark game is a WoW clone. I'm not asking for a sandbox game here.
Rift is not really a WOW clone... Its not as good as WOW in terms of gameplay and rest is kinda EQ style. They got it so wrong and its SOOO boring at higher lvls.
I was bored with Rift. Like others are saying... Nothing new here. The themepark genre imho has hit a innovative roadblock. Thats why I am playing DFO and MO now.
Is this the thread to win people back (to the games we play) from Rift?
Here goes:
Rift iz soo bad bcuz itz bad. Itz so bad bcuz it is a WoW clone and taht iz bad. I hope ppl com back to teh gamez i play bcuz im lonelly and alone and lonelly. It duznt even hav flying. Remeber how fun flying wuz?
Yes it is, because in 3 months other MMOs are gunna start realizing they arent getting their customers back like they use to.(war=fail, aion=fail, AoC=Fail, APB=Fail, TR=Fail, how many more went by the failside?)
I was bored with Rift. Like others are saying... Nothing new here. The themepark genre imho has hit a innovative roadblock. Thats why I am playing DFO and MO now.
You do realize DF is a clone of AC right? i mean they almost look the same graphics wise even. its just DF took what AC2 had and merged it into AC and poof DF was born. MO is trying to do it better, but with the layoffs, how much longer is it really going to last?
As a veteran MMO player i find rift to be quite boring. It is a well made game though, it runs nearly flawless, almost every quest works, pets work well, etc.
For me it was worth the 50 bucks for the month, plus the time i played in Beta. Unfortunately that seems to be all the latest mmos are, something you play for a month. But console games cost 50$ and half of those i never played for more than a month.
This is the last in a long line of WoW clones i will put money out for, and really the only reason i bought this is because my friends all wanted to play. I didnt like WoW then, and i dont like it now.
Not bashing the game, people come here to get ideas about games to see whether they would play them. This game is basically WoW, and if you liked WoW you will probly like it a lot, and if you did not like WoW, then do not expect to like this.
Either way, as i said, it is a well made nearly bug free game, which is impressive, i would like to see this company make a game that had a real virtual world, more than 2 factions, and designated PvP zones.
I played in Rift Beta so i shoulda seen it comen, i was expecting that Beta wasnt all the game, i found out after buying the game that was are there was , i paid for three months sub, and now im about finnished playing the game after one month, ill make a third alt and try and stretch it out for another month,i guess ill try playing every other day,
This patch "River of Souls" till the 9th of April for the first phase, was surely disapointing, you have to Grind out daily's, and kill off about 700 rifts to get all the River of souls coinage to buy the three rewards that have nothen that helps you play the game ( so far as i can find), but hey get out there and Kill those rifts the 701 st is just as fun as the first.
I do have to add that this Game is well done in all its aspects, game play, graphics, balance is real close, but if your looking for adventure i would suggest walking down to your mailbox, yep thats it.
For me, it's not that the game is boring. Because, while a lot of it is, it's still all new, so it gives me something to hold me over for a while. That was until the community turned into exactly what I was hoping to get away from. Played 1-30+ on two servers, and just got up to 9ish on Reclaimer. And boy is the community absolute trash. Maybe I should move to a PvE server because every time you say something or ask something, there are a dozen ass hats right there to troll you about it. Say something, you're wrong/stupid/a noob. Ask something? You're a noob? Input your opinion? Noob/casual(since when did that become an insult)/stupid. I swear within the first hour of playing I had at least 10 people on ignore within the first hour of play each time.
Comments
People didn't hate New Coke, they had never tasted it til day 1, or in this case month 1. What "we" (as an avid coke drinker), hated was the proposed removal of coke and its replacement. Coke Classic is a result of the backlash. And as analogies go, you can only carry them so far.
Ummmm yeah I was alive at that time...so I know for a fact that people hated new coke. nice try though. The fact that there was going to be no 'classic' yet, only caused a bigger issue. People tried it. Said...omg I want my old coke back. Difference here - people tried Rift and are leaving WoW in droves. So yeah your analogy doesn't work.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I dunno... I remember people freakin out about it that hadn't tried it. Course I'm a Pepsi person myself... and the entire clear Pepsi debacle :-P
But seriously, I doubt that there will be a majority of people who played Rift is gunna say.. this blows I'm going back to WoW. Most are just writing the game off if they don't like it and looking elsewhere.
P.S. I would like you to define that "massive" success standpoint if you're going to use it. Please refer us to cold-hard numbers defining the sales of Rift and the population after one month please. I can make up random statistics on a whim if I chose to but you need to back up your "success" arguement as I believe we aren't far enough in to make ANY sort of reasonable conclusion. DCUO probably had better 1st month sales than Rift (to be fair) and let's look at how that's doing not 3 months in.
People leaving wow in droves, ha ha ha!!!! You best be able to prove that statement with factual numbers otherwise sounds more like numbers pulled out of a place where the sun don't shine.
I left, and have no plans to return either...
There's too many choices in the mmo market right now to have to put up with anything. We're the paying customers, ghostcrawler's attitude is just bad. Until he is gone I will not consider a return to that title. I know I am but one and it will have no real effect on WoW, but I'm really enjoying the other titles I've moved to. I forgot my computer can do graphics this good!
We all know that not all games appeal to all players. We also know that there will be folks that like to come to forums like this and tell us that this game is great and of course some that would like to tell us that it's not worth investing the time.
As with all things, its your point over however you describe it... it's your point of view. So don't get hung up on a post from a player that wants to post negative comments on a forum for a Game that we all enjoy.
He/she has her home and we have ours... (ours is nicer
)
To the OP. I'm not really sure why this makes Rift bad. Perhaps you were ust commenting on the other post that Rift is "Good", but just becuase the game is similar to another game that is successful doesn't make it a bad game. I think, because Rift, is so much like WoW, as far as mechanics go, it makes Rift a game that is predictable to play. That isn't a bad thing in my mind.
Things that make a game "bad" for me evolve around monotony and boredom. I don't think Rift is bad becuase it is similar to another game out there. If I play WoW I get bored almost right away. If I play Rift, becuase it is new, I don't feel that same monotony and boredom. I actually feel refreshed. The leveling is a good speed, the graphics are quality, the combat is fun, PvP is great, (because I am an assassin) and overall the game style is immersive. Sure, there are a few things that could be improved upon, but by no means is this game bad.
I look at DCUO and a few other games. Those to me are bad. I get bored right away and don't know what else to do in the game besides quest. When I don't know what to do besides keep questing, not grouping with people beucase no one likes to talk to people, I get bored fast. That to me is boring. There is enough to do in Rift to keep an ADHD mind at bay. And thankfully I am appreciating it.
WoW is the 'established standard' of MMO's. WoW did bring 'some' new things to the table, but for the most part, WoW learned and took features from other MMO's. They assembled a pretty healthy grouping of 'best practices' for nearly 85% of the MMO market/player base. But now... the only thing that really stands out about WoW at this point is the subscription numbers that is has.
As other games launch, I think they utilize WoW's success and attempt to build WoW 2.0... with variations and twists. Each trying to present their own unique innovations ontop of a familiar layer/foundation.
RIFT is no different. And as it's been said dozens of times already, that's not really a bad thing. Not if the game wants to capture a large player base.
And for the WoW fans.
The group of Dev's that work on WoW now are in place to attempt to maintain the numbers. This isn't the same group of driven and hungry dev's/designers that made the game in the first place.
WoW is streamlined with very little choice or opportunity to customize your character. With less/limited choices, the game is 'simple'.
RIFT's soul system offers quite a few choices for players. This is the first time since SWG (preNGE) and the skill tree/profession tree system that they had that I feel like I can tweak my player into something that I enjoy playing.
I can't do that in WoW. No matter how big and grand players want to believe that WoW is.. their Dev's staff is no longer able to nimbly spin on a dime and introduce change that players request. Furthermore, they are lazy and resting on their accomplishments. As I have said before, they refuse to address long time requests and produce the true fit/finish to the game that so many players have requested.... maybe they can't? Maybe they are 'locked in' to what they have and governed by so much change management/control that they just can't. Too bad, really.
But in steps RIFT. A new game with lots of promise. Sure, it's not perfect. It's far from it. But it's not so far that it can't be brought in line. And the game is new enough and the dev's seem very anxious to please their customers.
While Rift does things similarly to WoW, it's not a WoW clone. It uses some similar gameplay concepts, but even many of those have differences/improvements over WoW. WoW and Rift are in the same classification of MMO -- Themepark -- but again, that doesn't make one a clone of the other.
Those people who complain that Rift is "a WoW clone" are going to be sorely dissapointed by TOR and GW2. Why? Because the "more of the same" they're sick of being in Rift because it's 'too much like WoW'; is going to be the same in those MMOs as well.
Why?
Because that's just how it is.
There's two general design philosophies for designing an MMO: Themepark, and sandbox.
Sandbox MMOs emphasize freedom, complexity, and non-linear or gated gameplay. Of course, these also suffer from people complaining from "lack of content" because there are no clearly defined objectives.
Themepark MMOs on the other hand, are more about 'balanced' gameplay and pre-designed encounters (quests, instanced dungeons, etc). These have more obvious content, but the gameplay is more gated and linear.
Now clearly the MMO market, yes you the consumers of MMOs, have largely shown that they prefer the Themepark methodology over the Sandbox methodology. So what do publishers and developers do? They make more of what looks popular, more themepark MMOs.
Which is what Trion has done. They've chosen the themepark design methodology and gone with it. That's why a lot of the core principles of Rift are similar to WoW, because they're both the same type of MMO. It has nothing to do with one 'copying' the other, and everything to do with the fact that it's just how you design a themepark MMO.
If Toyota makes a car with four wheels, one engine, one steering wheel on the left side, etc, it doesn't mean they're copying Ford. It just means they're following the industry standard for car design.
Which is the same for Rift compared to WoW. Just because it has similarities in it's core design, does not mean one is a clone or copy of the other.
So in closing, if Rift is "too much like WoW" for you, that's your opinion, no one is making you paly it. But the never-ending claims of "WoW clone" are just ridiculous. Rift is not WoW, it jsut shares some similar game design concepts. Sorry to dissapoint, but many of those same concepts will also be used for GW2 and TOR, and for many, many, other MMOs in the future. If this is not something you like, then it doesn't mean that those games are flawed, simply that you're burnt out on themepark MMOs.
Numerous large Guilds are leaving WoW and have left WoW for Rift. There are tons of people in our guild and alliance that have come from WoW. How many? Hundreds. Not ten or twenty, but hundreds.
This is from my experience and I'm sure it's an isolated case. /sarcasm
I like Rift and I'm surprised at how well it plays on a variety of machines. That being said, it has its flaws, but if you were to ask me to pick Rift or WoW, I'd pick Rift.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Yes. It is. And no, I'm not burned out on "themepark MMOs", I'm burned out on WoW clones. How is that so hard to understand? Not every themepark game is a WoW clone. I'm not asking for a sandbox game here.
Judging by some of the comments in this thread, some people think WoW is everything an MMO is and will be in the future.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
TAB Target press 123 games should all be shut down for the sake of gaming.
They all have the most brain dead game play.
Rift is not really a WOW clone... Its not as good as WOW in terms of gameplay and rest is kinda EQ style. They got it so wrong and its SOOO boring at higher lvls.
Gandalf tanked that demon on the bridge in the mines of morria. I guess Trion missed that move.
I was bored with Rift. Like others are saying... Nothing new here. The themepark genre imho has hit a innovative roadblock. Thats why I am playing DFO and MO now.
Yes it is, because in 3 months other MMOs are gunna start realizing they arent getting their customers back like they use to.(war=fail, aion=fail, AoC=Fail, APB=Fail, TR=Fail, how many more went by the failside?)
You do realize DF is a clone of AC right? i mean they almost look the same graphics wise even. its just DF took what AC2 had and merged it into AC and poof DF was born. MO is trying to do it better, but with the layoffs, how much longer is it really going to last?
As a veteran MMO player i find rift to be quite boring. It is a well made game though, it runs nearly flawless, almost every quest works, pets work well, etc.
For me it was worth the 50 bucks for the month, plus the time i played in Beta. Unfortunately that seems to be all the latest mmos are, something you play for a month. But console games cost 50$ and half of those i never played for more than a month.
This is the last in a long line of WoW clones i will put money out for, and really the only reason i bought this is because my friends all wanted to play. I didnt like WoW then, and i dont like it now.
Not bashing the game, people come here to get ideas about games to see whether they would play them. This game is basically WoW, and if you liked WoW you will probly like it a lot, and if you did not like WoW, then do not expect to like this.
Either way, as i said, it is a well made nearly bug free game, which is impressive, i would like to see this company make a game that had a real virtual world, more than 2 factions, and designated PvP zones.
I played in Rift Beta so i shoulda seen it comen, i was expecting that Beta wasnt all the game, i found out after buying the game that was are there was , i paid for three months sub, and now im about finnished playing the game after one month, ill make a third alt and try and stretch it out for another month,i guess ill try playing every other day,
This patch "River of Souls" till the 9th of April for the first phase, was surely disapointing, you have to Grind out daily's, and kill off about 700 rifts to get all the River of souls coinage to buy the three rewards that have nothen that helps you play the game ( so far as i can find), but hey get out there and Kill those rifts the 701 st is just as fun as the first.
I do have to add that this Game is well done in all its aspects, game play, graphics, balance is real close, but if your looking for adventure i would suggest walking down to your mailbox, yep thats it.
For me, it's not that the game is boring. Because, while a lot of it is, it's still all new, so it gives me something to hold me over for a while. That was until the community turned into exactly what I was hoping to get away from. Played 1-30+ on two servers, and just got up to 9ish on Reclaimer. And boy is the community absolute trash. Maybe I should move to a PvE server because every time you say something or ask something, there are a dozen ass hats right there to troll you about it. Say something, you're wrong/stupid/a noob. Ask something? You're a noob? Input your opinion? Noob/casual(since when did that become an insult)/stupid. I swear within the first hour of playing I had at least 10 people on ignore within the first hour of play each time.
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