Yes computer technology has improved alot. The issue isnt how much thats changed. Its how much those changes can affect video games. u have to have games that run on all kinds of machines or u wont succeed.
If u only make a game that will work on the latest tech computer u lost 99 pct of your base. Games can only move so fast in innovation or have no customers with the actualy equipment to run there games.
Just because comp tech has impvoed alot doesnt mean normal people who play mmos have the money or time to buy a new computer every 3-4 months to keep up with tech changes if game companies keep games at the top tech level.
U are missing a huge pt devs can only innovate so fast. Im sure they want changes. The majority of them are actual gamers. I know shock. Oh and people play wow cause its fun and entertaining to them.
Just because u dont like something doesnt make it bad . I hate people who say that. I play wow cause i enjoy it. U dont like it dont play but u dont have to put a game down just cause u dont like it.
Innovation comes out in stages because devs and publishers have to try to reach the biggest possible audience. Unlike u they dont have the luxary of sitting at home dreaming up the ulitmate game and no actually putting money or stuff into it.
Devs and publishers put money into games and have every right to make money off there games. Its the ones that run out of money trying to produce soemthing new that end up making bad games. They have to rush to release undone and they fail.
U cant have complete utter innovation throw out all the stutff thats ever been done in an mmo mmo. U just cant. Innovation has to come in small doses. If u try to do a completely new game with no features or visuals like other mmos u end up spending 500 million to make an mmo and u never make a profit and yoru go out of buisness.
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
which is a clone of nearly a handful of other games. Saying it has similarities with WoW isn't much as WoW steals 99% of their implemented design. If Bioware does something similar it must be a good game.
Yes computer technology has improved alot. The issue isnt how much thats changed. Its how much those changes can affect video games. u have to have games that run on all kinds of machines or u wont succeed.
If u only make a game that will work on the latest tech computer u lost 99 pct of your base. Games can only move so fast in innovation or have no customers with the actualy equipment to run there games.
Just because comp tech has impvoed alot doesnt mean normal people who play mmos have the money or time to buy a new computer every 3-4 months to keep up with tech changes if game companies keep games at the top tech level.
U are missing a huge pt devs can only innovate so fast. Im sure they want changes. The majority of them are actual gamers. I know shock. Oh and people play wow cause its fun and entertaining to them.
Just because u dont like something doesnt make it bad . I hate people who say that. I play wow cause i enjoy it. U dont like it dont play but u dont have to put a game down just cause u dont like it.
Innovation comes out in stages because devs and publishers have to try to reach the biggest possible audience. Unlike u they dont have the luxary of sitting at home dreaming up the ulitmate game and no actually putting money or stuff into it.
Devs and publishers put money into games and have every right to make money off there games. Its the ones that run out of money trying to produce soemthing new that end up making bad games. They have to rush to release undone and they fail.
U cant have complete utter innovation throw out all the stutff thats ever been done in an mmo mmo. U just cant. Innovation has to come in small doses. If u try to do a completely new game with no features or visuals like other mmos u end up spending 500 million to make an mmo and u never make a profit and yoru go out of buisness.
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
The ipod didn't just come out of nowhere. First there were record players, then radios, then portable radios, then a walkman where you had a portable cassette, then portable CD players... all of these built on each other, all of these had to come before the ipod. That's not even getting into all of the innovations required just to have the .mp3! If you're only looking at the final product you could fool yourself into thinking that innovaction happens overnight, but you're missing the big picture.
Oh and playing wow doesnt make me brain dead also liking wow doesnt make me brain dead. Im personally insulted by this very generalization of gamers.
Again just because u dont liek wow doesnt make wow a horrid game. Wow is fun and enjoyable and i have alot of fun playing it with my freinds.
I hae fun playing by myself.. Im tired of people saying only reaosn anyone plays wow is cause other people play wow. I play wow because i have alot of un playing wow.
If i didnt have fun i wouldnt play it no matter how many othes played it.
I wasn't calling people brain dead for playing wow. I will call people brain dead for playing a game exactly like WOW and claiming it's the messiah of MMO's. I was describing that portion of the MMO community that is unwilling to do anything that isn't hand-holding. Those they want to make everything easy so that they don't have to try and accomplish something. People not willing to put in the time to learn how to do something the right way, or just get plain better at it. No they want something they can get in and just hit one button over and over and win. Don't make it more complicated just make it easier. That is the brain dead people I'm talking about.
Now i just have to ask, seeing as how 99% of the mmo's actually use that talent/ability tree model...
What exactly were you expecting?
How do you want it to be changed?
What is so bad about the current system?
etc...
cause imho what you're saying is... you're drinking water and you expect it to taste like coca cola...
I expected something new, and if I was paid 45k a year to think about it over the course of 3 years I would come up with something. Just off the top of my head your character would have base traits in everything and as you use them they skill up but you can only reach a cap'd level. All the skills that you would received you would earn by using the less advanced version on the skill until you have enough skill in it to move to the next one. This is not an original idea but it is less implemented in the MMO world and I think would be more fun.
So, your idea isn't innovative at all, yet you attempt to criticize BioWare for not innovating....
Now i just have to ask, seeing as how 99% of the mmo's actually use that talent/ability tree model...
What exactly were you expecting?
How do you want it to be changed?
What is so bad about the current system?
etc...
cause imho what you're saying is... you're drinking water and you expect it to taste like coca cola...
I expected something new, and if I was paid 45k a year to think about it over the course of 3 years I would come up with something. Just off the top of my head your character would have base traits in everything and as you use them they skill up but you can only reach a cap'd level. All the skills that you would received you would earn by using the less advanced version on the skill until you have enough skill in it to move to the next one. This is not an original idea but it is less implemented in the MMO world and I think would be more fun.
With these types of MMOs you need a customization system that is linked closely to leveling. Trees, in my opinion, do a pretty decent job of that. In order to do a system like Eve, you would have to have it take a year to reach anything resembling a "class" (to prevent jack-of-all-trades toons) or certain skills lock others out. For example, picking the skill small projectile turret would lock you out of the remote sensing skill.
With your skill system, imagine being at max level and deciding you want to tank. Would you have to just sit at low level enemies and spam taunt for hours so you can now tank? If you wanted to go back to DPS or whatever you were would you have to start all over?
Secret World's skill system is just a way of choosing your "class". It would be similar to TOR doing away with the trees all together and just saying you pick from a menu whatever AC you want and you get all the skills by default.
Yes computer technology has improved alot. The issue isnt how much thats changed. Its how much those changes can affect video games. u have to have games that run on all kinds of machines or u wont succeed.
If u only make a game that will work on the latest tech computer u lost 99 pct of your base. Games can only move so fast in innovation or have no customers with the actualy equipment to run there games.
Just because comp tech has impvoed alot doesnt mean normal people who play mmos have the money or time to buy a new computer every 3-4 months to keep up with tech changes if game companies keep games at the top tech level.
U are missing a huge pt devs can only innovate so fast. Im sure they want changes. The majority of them are actual gamers. I know shock. Oh and people play wow cause its fun and entertaining to them.
Just because u dont like something doesnt make it bad . I hate people who say that. I play wow cause i enjoy it. U dont like it dont play but u dont have to put a game down just cause u dont like it.
Innovation comes out in stages because devs and publishers have to try to reach the biggest possible audience. Unlike u they dont have the luxary of sitting at home dreaming up the ulitmate game and no actually putting money or stuff into it.
Devs and publishers put money into games and have every right to make money off there games. Its the ones that run out of money trying to produce soemthing new that end up making bad games. They have to rush to release undone and they fail.
U cant have complete utter innovation throw out all the stutff thats ever been done in an mmo mmo. U just cant. Innovation has to come in small doses. If u try to do a completely new game with no features or visuals like other mmos u end up spending 500 million to make an mmo and u never make a profit and yoru go out of buisness.
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
The ipod didn't just come out of nowhere. First there were record players, then radios, then portable radios, then a walkman where you had a portable cassette, then portable CD players... all of these built on each other, all of these had to come before the ipod. That's not even getting into all of the innovations required just to have the .mp3! If you're only looking at the final product you could fool yourself into thinking that innovaction happens overnight, but you're missing the big picture.
And like I said at the end, it all comes down to your definition of these concepts. You could say that the automobile wasn't a huge leap because it came from the train which came from the steam engine which came from yada yada, or the helicopter wasn't a huge leap because air travel was already invented with the airplanes. Both of the examples were huge leaps forward. You could say Walmart wasn't a big leap forward because there were already mom and pop stores selling the same thing and it evolved from that. You could say that electric cars weren't a leap forward because there were already personal vehicales that transporter people and before that there were horses. What about submarines, just another way of traveling the ocean. Innovation sometimes take long extended periods, but sometimes it's like BAM. The faster technology advances the faster these innovations will arrive. Was google just another search engine? What about telephones, the lightbulb, did edison just steal that from candles?
Ok . I do understand that most players update comps every 2 yrs or so. Im just saying sometimes the comp tech doesnt make it to the game industry as fast as it does a computer.
Also if u are gonna innovate u better be able to withstand the losses u may take. Im waiting to see what blizzards new mmo will be. if there is one company out there with the cash and resources to do huge innovation all at once. its blizzard.
I know this displeases the masses on mmorpg. Its true though. Not only because not all innovation may appeal to a mass market but the one company who could di innovation in buckets and make sure it took its time and made sure it was a smooth game is blizzard. same goes for a sandbox .
If there was one company that could make a great sandbox that had very few bugs that people could put there money into its blizzard they have enough resources and profits from wow and other games like diablo series to wait until a game is as close to ready as possible.
Unfortunatly most compnaies have to get there foot in the mmo landscape first and innovation isnt there number 1 priority.
Ok . I do understand that most players update comps every 2 yrs or so. Im just saying sometimes the comp tech doesnt make it to the game industry as fast as it does a computer.
Also if u are gonna innovate u better be able to withstand the losses u may take. Im waiting to see what blizzards new mmo will be. if there is one company out there with the cash and resources to do huge innovation all at once. its blizzard.
I know this displeases the masses on mmorpg. Its true though. Not only because not all innovation may appeal to a mass market but the one company who could di innovation in buckets and make sure it took its time and made sure it was a smooth game is blizzard. same goes for a sandbox .
If there was one company that could make a great sandbox that had very few bugs that people could put there money into its blizzard they have enough resources and profits from wow and other games like diablo series to wait until a game is as close to ready as possible.
Unfortunatly most compnaies have to get there foot in the mmo landscape first and innovation isnt there number 1 priority.
Hey even though I really don't like WOW, I can't wait for Titan. I mean it will be massive. period.
Alot of these companies don't understand the risk of innovation, that's why it needs polish and thought, being new is not something that will gaurantee a win. I mean good lord, look at minidiscs LOL
Yes computer technology has improved alot. The issue isnt how much thats changed. Its how much those changes can affect video games. u have to have games that run on all kinds of machines or u wont succeed.
If u only make a game that will work on the latest tech computer u lost 99 pct of your base. Games can only move so fast in innovation or have no customers with the actualy equipment to run there games.
Just because comp tech has impvoed alot doesnt mean normal people who play mmos have the money or time to buy a new computer every 3-4 months to keep up with tech changes if game companies keep games at the top tech level.
U are missing a huge pt devs can only innovate so fast. Im sure they want changes. The majority of them are actual gamers. I know shock. Oh and people play wow cause its fun and entertaining to them.
Just because u dont like something doesnt make it bad . I hate people who say that. I play wow cause i enjoy it. U dont like it dont play but u dont have to put a game down just cause u dont like it.
Innovation comes out in stages because devs and publishers have to try to reach the biggest possible audience. Unlike u they dont have the luxary of sitting at home dreaming up the ulitmate game and no actually putting money or stuff into it.
Devs and publishers put money into games and have every right to make money off there games. Its the ones that run out of money trying to produce soemthing new that end up making bad games. They have to rush to release undone and they fail.
U cant have complete utter innovation throw out all the stutff thats ever been done in an mmo mmo. U just cant. Innovation has to come in small doses. If u try to do a completely new game with no features or visuals like other mmos u end up spending 500 million to make an mmo and u never make a profit and yoru go out of buisness.
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
The ipod didn't just come out of nowhere. First there were record players, then radios, then portable radios, then a walkman where you had a portable cassette, then portable CD players... all of these built on each other, all of these had to come before the ipod. That's not even getting into all of the innovations required just to have the .mp3! If you're only looking at the final product you could fool yourself into thinking that innovaction happens overnight, but you're missing the big picture.
And like I said at the end, it all comes down to your definition of these concepts. You could say that the automobile wasn't a huge leap because it came from the train which came from the steam engine which came from yada yada, or the helicopter wasn't a huge leap because air travel was already invented with the airplanes. Both of the examples were huge leaps forward. You could say Walmart wasn't a big leap forward because there were already mom and pop stores selling the same thing and it evolved from that. You could say that electric cars weren't a leap forward because there were already personal vehicales that transporter people and before that there were horses. What about submarines, just another way of traveling the ocean. Innovation sometimes take long extended periods, but sometimes it's like BAM. The faster technology advances the faster these innovations will arrive. Was google just another search engine? What about telephones, the lightbulb, did edison just steal that from candles?
The automobile you have today seems like a huge leap forward when compared to a horse and buggy, however the first automobiles were not. They were loud, slow, unreliable, and way too expensive. It took all kinds of small steps forward to get us to where we are today. THAT is how innovation works. You can talk all you want about comparing a mom and pop store to Walmart, but walmart didn't happen overnight, and there were thousands of stores of varying sizes in between. Google didn't invent search engines, there were plenty of others out there. They just did it a little bit different, a little bit better, and happened to become popular. You're stuck on the perception of innovation rather than the reality of it.
Ok . I do understand that most players update comps every 2 yrs or so. Im just saying sometimes the comp tech doesnt make it to the game industry as fast as it does a computer.
Also if u are gonna innovate u better be able to withstand the losses u may take. Im waiting to see what blizzards new mmo will be. if there is one company out there with the cash and resources to do huge innovation all at once. its blizzard.
I know this displeases the masses on mmorpg. Its true though. Not only because not all innovation may appeal to a mass market but the one company who could di innovation in buckets and make sure it took its time and made sure it was a smooth game is blizzard. same goes for a sandbox .
If there was one company that could make a great sandbox that had very few bugs that people could put there money into its blizzard they have enough resources and profits from wow and other games like diablo series to wait until a game is as close to ready as possible.
Unfortunatly most compnaies have to get there foot in the mmo landscape first and innovation isnt there number 1 priority.
I find this absolutely hilarious. Blizzard has never innovated, so you really shouldn't be expecting it in the future.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
Ignore the fact that the AoC talent paths were badly written/described and a total cluster.
I will say though, if you can find the video floating around of Funcom's new MMO The Secret World, the class skill system is pretty dope. Very different, but once again not innovative, I personally believe it has all been done at some point, just it gets lost in the sands of time.
Lets hope they get people who truly understand their game whose language skills with english are better then those who worked with them on AoC. Parts of AoC I truly enjoyed but the badly written descriptions of what abilities did or didn't do was a very large fail in my book.
Yes computer technology has improved alot. The issue isnt how much thats changed. Its how much those changes can affect video games. u have to have games that run on all kinds of machines or u wont succeed.
If u only make a game that will work on the latest tech computer u lost 99 pct of your base. Games can only move so fast in innovation or have no customers with the actualy equipment to run there games.
Just because comp tech has impvoed alot doesnt mean normal people who play mmos have the money or time to buy a new computer every 3-4 months to keep up with tech changes if game companies keep games at the top tech level.
U are missing a huge pt devs can only innovate so fast. Im sure they want changes. The majority of them are actual gamers. I know shock. Oh and people play wow cause its fun and entertaining to them.
Just because u dont like something doesnt make it bad . I hate people who say that. I play wow cause i enjoy it. U dont like it dont play but u dont have to put a game down just cause u dont like it.
Innovation comes out in stages because devs and publishers have to try to reach the biggest possible audience. Unlike u they dont have the luxary of sitting at home dreaming up the ulitmate game and no actually putting money or stuff into it.
Devs and publishers put money into games and have every right to make money off there games. Its the ones that run out of money trying to produce soemthing new that end up making bad games. They have to rush to release undone and they fail.
U cant have complete utter innovation throw out all the stutff thats ever been done in an mmo mmo. U just cant. Innovation has to come in small doses. If u try to do a completely new game with no features or visuals like other mmos u end up spending 500 million to make an mmo and u never make a profit and yoru go out of buisness.
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
The ipod didn't just come out of nowhere. First there were record players, then radios, then portable radios, then a walkman where you had a portable cassette, then portable CD players... all of these built on each other, all of these had to come before the ipod. That's not even getting into all of the innovations required just to have the .mp3! If you're only looking at the final product you could fool yourself into thinking that innovaction happens overnight, but you're missing the big picture.
And like I said at the end, it all comes down to your definition of these concepts. You could say that the automobile wasn't a huge leap because it came from the train which came from the steam engine which came from yada yada, or the helicopter wasn't a huge leap because air travel was already invented with the airplanes. Both of the examples were huge leaps forward. You could say Walmart wasn't a big leap forward because there were already mom and pop stores selling the same thing and it evolved from that. You could say that electric cars weren't a leap forward because there were already personal vehicales that transporter people and before that there were horses. What about submarines, just another way of traveling the ocean. Innovation sometimes take long extended periods, but sometimes it's like BAM. The faster technology advances the faster these innovations will arrive. Was google just another search engine? What about telephones, the lightbulb, did edison just steal that from candles?
The automobile you have today seems like a huge leap forward when compared to a horse and buggy, however the first automobiles were not. They were loud, slow, unreliable, and way too expensive. It took all kinds of small steps forward to get us to where we are today. THAT is how innovation works. You can talk all you want about comparing a mom and pop store to Walmart, but walmart didn't happen overnight, and there were thousands of stores of varying sizes in between. Google didn't invent search engines, there were plenty of others out there. They just did it a little bit different, a little bit better, and happened to become popular. You're stuck on the perception of innovation rather than the reality of it.
Innovation
: the introduction of something new
: a new idea, method, or device
I never said that the automobile of today is a huge leap from the automobile two years ago. I'm saying the first time the automobile was introduced it was a giant leap forward from current modes of transportation. As was the iPod when it was first shown. It sounds more like your stuck on what happens to the innovation after it's introduced rather than the point in time said product was innovated. Wow wasn't a huge innovation, but it was a step forward from other games at the time, in some ways, just as a car from 2011 is a step forward from a car in the 50's. Anything can be made to look generic by presenting it differently.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
It looks like a standard mmo skill tree to me. Now if you want to honor WoW as being the standard for the mmo genre so be it, but you'll be the one who looks either: A) inexperienced when it comes playing mmos or too easily impressed by what WoW has done.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
You're saying that you played Meridian before it was commecially launched?
Some of us have been playing online games for over twenty years. I know such things are hard for the hampster generation to understand. Some of us played Text based moorpgs and some played the first graphical versions like Drakkar, Legends of Twinon, Never Winter Nights etc. Hell some of us have over thirty plus years experience with game mechanics systems dating back to table top games, rpgs, tactical and strategic games etc. ((gasp)) Oh noes we ancient!
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
You're saying that you played Meridian before it was commecially launched?
I think 15 years is perfectly feasible, but I count MUDs.
I'll see you in court!
In 2008 NWNonAOL won a T&E Emmy for advancing the field of MMORPG's, NWNonAOL came out in 1991.
And i played NWNonAOL but only after they included it with the price of the AOL subscription. The point is these arent snide remarks this is really the history of the genre.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
You're saying that you played Meridian before it was commecially launched?
I think 15 years is perfectly feasible, but I count MUDs.
I'll see you in court!
In 2008 NWNonAOL won a T&E Emmy for advancing the field of MMORPG's, NWNonAOL came out in 1991.
Island of Kesmai came out in 1985. Again, not my point
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
Yes computer technology has improved alot. The issue isnt how much thats changed. Its how much those changes can affect video games. u have to have games that run on all kinds of machines or u wont succeed.
If u only make a game that will work on the latest tech computer u lost 99 pct of your base. Games can only move so fast in innovation or have no customers with the actualy equipment to run there games.
Just because comp tech has impvoed alot doesnt mean normal people who play mmos have the money or time to buy a new computer every 3-4 months to keep up with tech changes if game companies keep games at the top tech level.
U are missing a huge pt devs can only innovate so fast. Im sure they want changes. The majority of them are actual gamers. I know shock. Oh and people play wow cause its fun and entertaining to them.
Just because u dont like something doesnt make it bad . I hate people who say that. I play wow cause i enjoy it. U dont like it dont play but u dont have to put a game down just cause u dont like it.
Innovation comes out in stages because devs and publishers have to try to reach the biggest possible audience. Unlike u they dont have the luxary of sitting at home dreaming up the ulitmate game and no actually putting money or stuff into it.
Devs and publishers put money into games and have every right to make money off there games. Its the ones that run out of money trying to produce soemthing new that end up making bad games. They have to rush to release undone and they fail.
U cant have complete utter innovation throw out all the stutff thats ever been done in an mmo mmo. U just cant. Innovation has to come in small doses. If u try to do a completely new game with no features or visuals like other mmos u end up spending 500 million to make an mmo and u never make a profit and yoru go out of buisness.
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
The ipod didn't just come out of nowhere. First there were record players, then radios, then portable radios, then a walkman where you had a portable cassette, then portable CD players... all of these built on each other, all of these had to come before the ipod. That's not even getting into all of the innovations required just to have the .mp3! If you're only looking at the final product you could fool yourself into thinking that innovaction happens overnight, but you're missing the big picture.
And like I said at the end, it all comes down to your definition of these concepts. You could say that the automobile wasn't a huge leap because it came from the train which came from the steam engine which came from yada yada, or the helicopter wasn't a huge leap because air travel was already invented with the airplanes. Both of the examples were huge leaps forward. You could say Walmart wasn't a big leap forward because there were already mom and pop stores selling the same thing and it evolved from that. You could say that electric cars weren't a leap forward because there were already personal vehicales that transporter people and before that there were horses. What about submarines, just another way of traveling the ocean. Innovation sometimes take long extended periods, but sometimes it's like BAM. The faster technology advances the faster these innovations will arrive. Was google just another search engine? What about telephones, the lightbulb, did edison just steal that from candles?
The automobile you have today seems like a huge leap forward when compared to a horse and buggy, however the first automobiles were not. They were loud, slow, unreliable, and way too expensive. It took all kinds of small steps forward to get us to where we are today. THAT is how innovation works. You can talk all you want about comparing a mom and pop store to Walmart, but walmart didn't happen overnight, and there were thousands of stores of varying sizes in between. Google didn't invent search engines, there were plenty of others out there. They just did it a little bit different, a little bit better, and happened to become popular. You're stuck on the perception of innovation rather than the reality of it.
Innovation
: the introduction of something new
: a new idea, method, or device
I never said that the automobile of today is a huge leap from the automobile two years ago. I'm saying the first time the automobile was introduced it was a giant leap forward from current modes of transportation. As was the iPod when it was first shown. It sounds more like your stuck on what happens to the innovation after it's introduced rather than the point in time said product was innovated. Wow wasn't a huge innovation, but it was a step forward from other games at the time, in some ways, just as a car from 2011 is a step forward from a car in the 50's. Anything can be made to look generic by presenting it differently.
What you said towards the end was true of the iPod also. There were mp3 players out before the ipod and there were wheel selector UI's. The innovative thing was how Apple combined them in its product, the product itself was not genre breaking like the first official Automobile, although that can be argued as well, what was the first automobile, nothing but a carriage/buggy+combustion engine+steering. Slippery slope.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
You're saying that you played Meridian before it was commecially launched?
I think 15 years is perfectly feasible, but I count MUDs.
I'll see you in court!
In 2008 NWNonAOL won a T&E Emmy for advancing the field of MMORPG's, NWNonAOL came out in 1991.
Island of Kesmai came out in 1985. Again, not my point
Then what is your point? You say someone cant have 15 plus years in the genre, yet if you know about IoKonCompuServe then you know they can. The term itself was created by Garriot for UO, which was after Meridian. However games that preceeded UO (like Meridian) helped create this genere and can be considered MMO's.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
You're saying that you played Meridian before it was commecially launched?
I think 15 years is perfectly feasible, but I count MUDs.
I'll see you in court!
In 2008 NWNonAOL won a T&E Emmy for advancing the field of MMORPG's, NWNonAOL came out in 1991.
Island of Kesmai came out in 1985. Again, not my point
Then what is your point? You say someone cant have 15 plus years in the genre, yet if you know about IoKonCompuServe then you know they can. The term itself was created by Garriot for UO, which was after Meridian. However games that preceeded UO (like Meridian) helped create this genere and can be considered MMO's.
It's just one of those things I always see where someone wants the upper edge, in this case, the upper edge on experience, as if it somehow pushes opinion more towards being a fact.
Many games have talent trees. It doesn't necessarily mean they're all like WoW. You can speculate, but why abandon ship so easily?
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
I just thought that it would be amusing to point this out:
A lot of the people here in this very thread that are standing up for the skill system on the grounds that every other MMO does it, that it should have been expected, and that it's fine so long as it's done well, were bitching about the SAME EXACT THING to the people who were standing up for Rift.
I like neither game so I'm not picking sides, and I'm neither for nor against SW: TOR, but it's just something to think about.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
Bioware known for innovation? Wat?
Last I checked they were known for superb writing/story and brilliant character development.
The only thing I'd call innovative from bioware is Mass Effect, managing to create an almost perfect blend between RPG and TPS.
I don't see why they should change the skill tree when so many are familiar with it.
They are creating a traditional MMORPG with a heavy emphasis on story and single-player content. How you missed that is truly a mystery.
Comments
Well I wasn't trying to bad mouth WOW players too badly. The technological advances are not just on the consumer side, although you'd have to be living under a rock if you think computers haven't advanced since 2004, and that most mmoers don't update their computer at least every two years on average IMO. Most of the advances that effect MMO's are found on the server side. Creating the ability to do more with there games. I'm not certain innnovation has to come in small doses. I think the Ipod was a huge leap forward in technology IMO. Falt screen TV's, automobiles, whatever take your pick, all of which sprung forward at one point, and may have seen some slow movement over time, but there are leps forward that do amazing things. To say that all innovation must be in stages or in small doses is a state of mind most innovators don't have.
I beleive I mentioned that putting something out too early was a problem with most of the innovation attempted in the last decade. It's not that they've run out of money trying to do something new, it's that they didn't manage what was available correctly. Innovation takes time and it takes work, I don't think most are willing to do either effeciently.
Of course all of this really can be a difference in how you define all the different concepts in our discussion. What's a leap to you and me, what's a small dose, what's innovation, what's good what's bad, and what's time scale are we looking at.
which is a clone of nearly a handful of other games. Saying it has similarities with WoW isn't much as WoW steals 99% of their implemented design. If Bioware does something similar it must be a good game.The ipod didn't just come out of nowhere. First there were record players, then radios, then portable radios, then a walkman where you had a portable cassette, then portable CD players... all of these built on each other, all of these had to come before the ipod. That's not even getting into all of the innovations required just to have the .mp3! If you're only looking at the final product you could fool yourself into thinking that innovaction happens overnight, but you're missing the big picture.
I wasn't calling people brain dead for playing wow. I will call people brain dead for playing a game exactly like WOW and claiming it's the messiah of MMO's. I was describing that portion of the MMO community that is unwilling to do anything that isn't hand-holding. Those they want to make everything easy so that they don't have to try and accomplish something. People not willing to put in the time to learn how to do something the right way, or just get plain better at it. No they want something they can get in and just hit one button over and over and win. Don't make it more complicated just make it easier. That is the brain dead people I'm talking about.
So, your idea isn't innovative at all, yet you attempt to criticize BioWare for not innovating....
With these types of MMOs you need a customization system that is linked closely to leveling. Trees, in my opinion, do a pretty decent job of that. In order to do a system like Eve, you would have to have it take a year to reach anything resembling a "class" (to prevent jack-of-all-trades toons) or certain skills lock others out. For example, picking the skill small projectile turret would lock you out of the remote sensing skill.
With your skill system, imagine being at max level and deciding you want to tank. Would you have to just sit at low level enemies and spam taunt for hours so you can now tank? If you wanted to go back to DPS or whatever you were would you have to start all over?
Secret World's skill system is just a way of choosing your "class". It would be similar to TOR doing away with the trees all together and just saying you pick from a menu whatever AC you want and you get all the skills by default.
And like I said at the end, it all comes down to your definition of these concepts. You could say that the automobile wasn't a huge leap because it came from the train which came from the steam engine which came from yada yada, or the helicopter wasn't a huge leap because air travel was already invented with the airplanes. Both of the examples were huge leaps forward. You could say Walmart wasn't a big leap forward because there were already mom and pop stores selling the same thing and it evolved from that. You could say that electric cars weren't a leap forward because there were already personal vehicales that transporter people and before that there were horses. What about submarines, just another way of traveling the ocean. Innovation sometimes take long extended periods, but sometimes it's like BAM. The faster technology advances the faster these innovations will arrive. Was google just another search engine? What about telephones, the lightbulb, did edison just steal that from candles?
@ DarkPony
They could make a Skill Donut and it wouldnt even matter.
Ok . I do understand that most players update comps every 2 yrs or so. Im just saying sometimes the comp tech doesnt make it to the game industry as fast as it does a computer.
Also if u are gonna innovate u better be able to withstand the losses u may take. Im waiting to see what blizzards new mmo will be. if there is one company out there with the cash and resources to do huge innovation all at once. its blizzard.
I know this displeases the masses on mmorpg. Its true though. Not only because not all innovation may appeal to a mass market but the one company who could di innovation in buckets and make sure it took its time and made sure it was a smooth game is blizzard. same goes for a sandbox .
If there was one company that could make a great sandbox that had very few bugs that people could put there money into its blizzard they have enough resources and profits from wow and other games like diablo series to wait until a game is as close to ready as possible.
Unfortunatly most compnaies have to get there foot in the mmo landscape first and innovation isnt there number 1 priority.
Hey even though I really don't like WOW, I can't wait for Titan. I mean it will be massive. period.
Alot of these companies don't understand the risk of innovation, that's why it needs polish and thought, being new is not something that will gaurantee a win. I mean good lord, look at minidiscs LOL
The automobile you have today seems like a huge leap forward when compared to a horse and buggy, however the first automobiles were not. They were loud, slow, unreliable, and way too expensive. It took all kinds of small steps forward to get us to where we are today. THAT is how innovation works. You can talk all you want about comparing a mom and pop store to Walmart, but walmart didn't happen overnight, and there were thousands of stores of varying sizes in between. Google didn't invent search engines, there were plenty of others out there. They just did it a little bit different, a little bit better, and happened to become popular. You're stuck on the perception of innovation rather than the reality of it.
I find this absolutely hilarious. Blizzard has never innovated, so you really shouldn't be expecting it in the future.
Ignore the fact that the AoC talent paths were badly written/described and a total cluster.
Lets hope they get people who truly understand their game whose language skills with english are better then those who worked with them on AoC. Parts of AoC I truly enjoyed but the badly written descriptions of what abilities did or didn't do was a very large fail in my book.
Innovation
: the introduction of something new
: a new idea, method, or device
I never said that the automobile of today is a huge leap from the automobile two years ago. I'm saying the first time the automobile was introduced it was a giant leap forward from current modes of transportation. As was the iPod when it was first shown. It sounds more like your stuck on what happens to the innovation after it's introduced rather than the point in time said product was innovated. Wow wasn't a huge innovation, but it was a step forward from other games at the time, in some ways, just as a car from 2011 is a step forward from a car in the 50's. Anything can be made to look generic by presenting it differently.
It looks like a standard mmo skill tree to me. Now if you want to honor WoW as being the standard for the mmo genre so be it, but you'll be the one who looks either: A) inexperienced when it comes playing mmos or
too easily impressed by what WoW has done.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Some of us have been playing online games for over twenty years. I know such things are hard for the hampster generation to understand.
Some of us played Text based moorpgs and some played the first graphical versions like Drakkar, Legends of Twinon, Never Winter Nights etc. Hell some of us have over thirty plus years experience with game mechanics systems dating back to table top games, rpgs, tactical and strategic games etc. ((gasp)) Oh noes we ancient!
In 2008 NWNonAOL won a T&E Emmy for advancing the field of MMORPG's, NWNonAOL came out in 1991.
And i played NWNonAOL but only after they included it with the price of the AOL subscription. The point is these arent snide remarks this is really the history of the genre.
Island of Kesmai came out in 1985. Again, not my point
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
What you said towards the end was true of the iPod also. There were mp3 players out before the ipod and there were wheel selector UI's. The innovative thing was how Apple combined them in its product, the product itself was not genre breaking like the first official Automobile, although that can be argued as well, what was the first automobile, nothing but a carriage/buggy+combustion engine+steering. Slippery slope.
Then what is your point? You say someone cant have 15 plus years in the genre, yet if you know about IoKonCompuServe then you know they can. The term itself was created by Garriot for UO, which was after Meridian. However games that preceeded UO (like Meridian) helped create this genere and can be considered MMO's.
It's just one of those things I always see where someone wants the upper edge, in this case, the upper edge on experience, as if it somehow pushes opinion more towards being a fact.
Many games have talent trees. It doesn't necessarily mean they're all like WoW. You can speculate, but why abandon ship so easily?
I derive my strength from passion. Do you feel that? That is what seperates you and I, Jedi!
I just thought that it would be amusing to point this out:
A lot of the people here in this very thread that are standing up for the skill system on the grounds that every other MMO does it, that it should have been expected, and that it's fine so long as it's done well, were bitching about the SAME EXACT THING to the people who were standing up for Rift.
I like neither game so I'm not picking sides, and I'm neither for nor against SW: TOR, but it's just something to think about.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Bioware known for innovation? Wat?
Last I checked they were known for superb writing/story and brilliant character development.
The only thing I'd call innovative from bioware is Mass Effect, managing to create an almost perfect blend between RPG and TPS.
I don't see why they should change the skill tree when so many are familiar with it.
They are creating a traditional MMORPG with a heavy emphasis on story and single-player content. How you missed that is truly a mystery.