i do understand mmo's existed before wow but wow broke barriers in subs no other game came close to.
to say its ruining the industry as most do is ridiculous. Im not saying mmo's wouldnt exist . Im saying u wouldnt have companies poring miillions of dollars into them if they werent hoping to hit on what blizzard did with wow.
What ud have is alot of indy guys making games theyw anted with little or no money. so games innovation would be even slower then it is now. Theyd be alot more buggy and for the most part companins would keep there budgets lower then the reported 150 million bioware is spending on tor.
Truth is wow made big companies go wow look at that we want a piece of that market and got alot of companies that werent interested in mmos into the game.
Sure mmos would exist but i bet ud have less innovation then u do now.
i have played wow for almost 6 yrs i love to level alts. the questing in wow has only gotten better especially in cata. u can argue all u want about raids and dungeons but i still lvoe them
The dungeons in cata are alot more challenging then they were in lk. Im having alot of fun in cata. That doesnt make me a brain dead idiot which i get called alot for defending wow.
Look i dont like that tanking was maade harder and mana regen got to be a pain in the butt. But for the most part i like cata. Im not saying u have to like wow. Im just sayign i am allowed to like it and enjoy wow without being a brain dead idiot.
I've played WoW for years and loved it. Game review websites, critics, and players have found the game extremely enjoyable, and the evidence is the ammount of subscribers Blizzard has. The game is fun, packed with content, hilarious at times, full of lore, and very deep.
Years ago, before I could play the game because my parents did not let me pay for a subscription fee, I harboured anti-WoW sentiments even though I knew little of the game. I thought the game was for "nerds" or people living in their parent's basement and my classmates frequently joked about it (This was during elementary school, so don't give me grief). I didn't understand what the game was all about, didn't know how good it was, and always thought that games like Runescape were king in the MMORPG district.
I've noticed that on this website WoW has a remarkably low rating compared to how good it actually is. I feel that there's a lot of distaste towards WoW because people believe their MMORPGs are better, have never given WoW a try, etc. I'm getting tired of people dissing WoW and complaining about things like grinding for reputation (which everyone seems to call out despite the fact that WoW's grind is so much less time consuming than most MMORPGs out there). I suspect that many players are jealous that they cannot play WoW (as I was) or tired of their favourite games being beneath WoW. This jealousy has resulted in WoW scoring at 7.73 on this site, which is lower than most games that aren't out yet, and about the same as much worse games like Maplestory (Essentially one big grind with little or no purpose).
What are your thoughts on this?
Nobodies jealous. Most of us are older than you and come from a very different backround. Your speaking to veterans that have played WoW since vanilla. Your new to this so it's understandable that you would like WoW so much. But the majority of us are looking for innovation and originality in a game now. We're tired of the same crap. Wow is old news and posting a thread like this is going to spark up alot of controversey because threads like these are just as old as WoW.
My point is most of us realize that WoW was a good game but the key word is was, it's had it's time.
P.S. I would hardly say any game is "beneath WoW". Just because WoW has the most subs doesn't make it the best game. If that's all you pay attention too then your not a good gamer imo.
I don't really know why you have to attack my age, but if a game's innovation and originality fade because too much time has past does this make it a bad game and worthy of having a lower rating than, say, LoTRO (which is a clone if I ever saw one and has much less content).
And to your comment on who I'm speaking to I'm not targetting WoW "veterans", I'm targetting people who attack the game but have never really given it a try. Just because you want some innovation doesn't make this game bad. Just look for a new game and rate that high. Why bother flaming this one?
I'm not attacking your age, my point is that your new to the game. Of course your going to like it. Wait untill you hit end game and realize that its all about who has the best eye candy and who can repeat the same process over and over again the quickest for same thing.. eye candy. Maybe you already have, but it will get boring very quick. Also WoW has no community anymore, it's dead/dieing in that aspect. Nobody wants to group for quests because they all want to solo and the random dungeon que has made things so convinient that nobody in dungeons even talk anymore. Wheres the joy in a game like this? Log in and do the same daily quests, grind for the same rep, grind for honor and all for the same thing... pretty looking gear.
And Lotro is in absolutely no way a WoW clone, where did that come from? Not everything is a WoW clone so please don't start that.
I can't wait for GW2 it'll blow WoW away. And unlike some companies they have to put in hard work with constant content updates to keep their customers happy =]
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
Who cares about the number. His point was not the number 14 million...his point was the hugh difference in subscribers between WoW and the next game. Instead of addressing him about how WoW has millions (with his number give or take 2 million) it is still 10 million more people playing than the next game. You did not want to address that issue you instead wanted to attack his number and not the issue. That is like attacting someone's spelling cause you can not address the issue. In other words redirect people from the issue of the hugh ammount more playing WoW and instead talk about how his number is wrong. Who cares. 11 or 14 million that is still a small country more than the next game of people playing.
You are so right, the facts do not matter it is only the point someone is trying to make.
Like if I said Mass Effect 2 was the greatest game ever made because it sold a billion copies in 30 days. It doesn’t matter the number I use; it is the fact that it is a highly regarded game that is important.
Oh and also I can talk to dolphins and I have been to Mars, and both Martians and dolphins love World of Warcraft.
Yep you are right facts don’t matter at all.
Just like you jumping to conclusions about why I made the post, it really doesn’t matter why I made it. It only matters that you view it as an attack on world of warcraft. But oh my God if we look at the fact that I was making the post to correct some disinformation, then this whole argument you are making is pointless. We cannot have that we must defend World of Warcraft from all foes, even the ones made up in our own minds. Yes another Blizzard angle gets his wings.
They hardly put out more content then these Dev's that don't have a hundredth of their budget.
If you'd try playing the game for more than "5 minutes" you would have noticed that content comes out every few months or so. This is usually in the form of a new feature and/or new dungeon(s). WoW pumps out content and the game has improved greatly since launch because they take what other games call "revolutionary" (Ahem, Warhammer online's levelling through pvp and queueing from everywhere) and implement it in their game, improving it and allowing it to grow.
If you would try playing another game, instead of just being a WoW fanboi, you might realize that most game devs introduce new patches and content a few times a year.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
WoW is also like Tunafish wet it doesnt smell at all,
but if it was dry then it would smell
well said brother.
Thing people dont take in consideration is, that most people who play wow have played it for a longer period (there are little people who start out fresh with no experience with the game.)
so we take it that most people who talk about wow, have been playing the same game for 1-5years. Ofcourse they are going to downrate it, there are no games that get plain when you play it for 5 years in mass amounts.
thing is, that the game in its current state is great, if you'd set out WoW to a new audiance of people who never played/heard of the game, they will probably be stunned by how good the game actually is. Its depth and rich story driven world, its graphical atmosphere that is better than MOST mmos. it all fits together, everyone who started out can remember their first month of being new to the game, the epic journeys you'd embark on with your friends. The first time you entered contested terretory which gave you a minor thrill.
you might think that all this does not relate, but to me it makes perfect sense. The people who rate wow are bored of this game, because they over played it. Statisticly, the game should be really involving and fun. and I'm most confident that if everyones memmory of playing wow was erased, and it launched as a brand new game in the MMO market. It would skyrocket over those 12mil subs.
skaffa boy, so if this sounds weird, please ignore me ;x
"You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn."
Fine we will have him go back and fix his post now address his issue. This is not gullying people into spending a one time fee to buy a game. I can put crap in a box and have a hugh marketing effort and suckers will buy it in hugh numbers. That is not hard. It is making people pay week after week to get my crap in a box with fresh crap. If they will pay for it then there has to be something of value to my crap. But we can go back to nit picking people's posts for fact checks that add little of real value to the issues at hand. La La La...I love chese...crap I spelled cheese wrong.
I've played WoW for years and loved it. Game review websites, critics, and players have found the game extremely enjoyable, and the evidence is the ammount of subscribers Blizzard has. The game is fun, packed with content, hilarious at times, full of lore, and very deep.
Years ago, before I could play the game because my parents did not let me pay for a subscription fee, I harboured anti-WoW sentiments even though I knew little of the game. I thought the game was for "nerds" or people living in their parent's basement and my classmates frequently joked about it (This was during elementary school, so don't give me grief). I didn't understand what the game was all about, didn't know how good it was, and always thought that games like Runescape were king in the MMORPG district.
I've noticed that on this website WoW has a remarkably low rating compared to how good it actually is. I feel that there's a lot of distaste towards WoW because people believe their MMORPGs are better, have never given WoW a try, etc. I'm getting tired of people dissing WoW and complaining about things like grinding for reputation (which everyone seems to call out despite the fact that WoW's grind is so much less time consuming than most MMORPGs out there). I suspect that many players are jealous that they cannot play WoW (as I was) or tired of their favourite games being beneath WoW. This jealousy has resulted in WoW scoring at 7.73 on this site, which is lower than most games that aren't out yet, and about the same as much worse games like Maplestory (Essentially one big grind with little or no purpose).
What are your thoughts on this?
"Tired of their favorite game being beneath WoW"
This is a funny sentence for a couple of reasons. First of all, in the view of someone who has a favorite game, their game would not be beneath WoW, that is your opinion (that their favorite game is beneath WoW). Second, who even cares? If I am playing a game, for instance I played Haven and Hearth for a while, then I dont worry about how "popular" it is, because that is all in the eye of the beholder. Haven and Hearth is so extremely small compared to games such as WoW, but did that bother me? not in the slightest. I enjoyed my time there.
My point is, why be jealous of WoW? As long as you can have the option to play what you enjoy then who cares what others are doing. The reaon for dislike of WoW, even if it is a good game, is because now there has been little deviation from the proven formula and people are getting fewer and fewer choices of what to play. So much so that WoW as become the epitome of what an MMO can be, eventhough there are other types.
Anyway, my thoughts are that you shouldn't let the views of this particular site irk you so much. There will always be an opion that differs from yours. Everyone already knows WoW was a success, so one site has a lower score for it and you want to claim that that opinion is based off of jealousy and misinformation? Different people like different things. I for one played WoW for quite a while. Enjoyed it for even less. Now I don't play. Pretty simple to me.
Simple answer for you. Oh and i have played Wow since vanilla beta.
Catclysm Sucks!
1) Phasing
2) No world PVP
3) healing/tank nerfs
4) Guild leveling destroyed guilds
5) Graphics to childish/cartoony
6) talent tree restrictions no more hybrids.
7) rehashing of content when the company makes 140 million a month.
8) LFD destroyed server communitys
9) locked out of Pugs when a certain level is reached.
10) faction boss raids eliminated
11) old expansion zones dead
12) I have around 35 more!
I wont bore you with the rest. Wow is dying due to cataclysm. What the simple minds wanted they got. now 4 year olds can play it so easy. good luck OP we will see you back here when you hit the wall with Wow like many have.
Simple answer for you. Oh and i have played Wow since vanilla beta.
Catclysm Sucks!
1) Phasing
2) No world PVP
3) healing/tank nerfs
4) Guild leveling destroyed guilds
5) Graphics to childish/cartoony
6) talent tree restrictions no more hybrids.
7) rehashing of content when the company makes 140 million a month.
8) LFD destroyed server communitys
9) locked out of Pugs when a certain level is reached.
10) faction boss raids eliminated
11) old expansion zones dead
12) I have around 35 more!
I wont bore you with the rest. Wow is dying due to cataclysm. What the simple minds wanted they got. now 4 year olds can play it so easy. good luck OP we will see you back here when you hit the wall with Wow like many have.
TY TY TY and nuff said omg this is how im sure most mature WoW players or EX WoW players feel I know I do.
13) ppl dont know how to play there class anymore because lich king ruined it.
14) CC what is CC lol
15) ppl who roll a scrub tank jst because they don't want to wait in que.
If it wasn't WoW, it would be some other game. People hate the "Cool" thing. Just as people hate on Apple for their products, so too do people hate on games.
Hating on what's popular has been around long before video games, and it isn't exclusive to video games either. WoW is popular; It's big and many people like it. Because of this, it's hard to ignore.
Many people look to WoW as the definition of MMORPGs, but MMORPGs aren't stagnant. They evolve. As they evolve, things that we once held in high regards start to wane. WoW continues to evolve and take huge risky steps to please its customers. Something many companies just aren't willing to do. WoW destroys its own world *permantly*. How many other MMORPGs can say they've done the same successfully?
WoW will continue to live so long as it can keep up with the evolving technology. It's doing great jobs with it's new Phasing technology and puts a much needed emphasis on story and change in the world.
Story is the next big thing in MMORPGs and it just so happens WoW has one of the most recognizable stories in history.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
most ppl on this forum are either burned out of WoW or dissapointed of cata, and some even havent played it and like to troll around following critics.....
there are tons of mmorpg forums and none have the same ratings while all have haters and lovers.... in the end, what keep forums alive is the opinion and exchange of said thing...
I think it is because WOW has reached Microsoft status. There are people who will hate something that is popular ( or a near monopoly) just because they are jealous of success. Anyone who has the masses following them, obviously caters to the masses ( an oxymoron) and therefore is open to ridicule for selling out.
Mostly it is just angry, bitter people who hang out on small corners of the internet hating everything that is popular or successful.
How can anyone take this seriously? He didn't like Wow becasue kids at school like Runescape....and now he likes it everyone who doesn't is jealous/retarded...
I've played WoW for years and loved it. Game review websites, critics, and players have found the game extremely enjoyable, and the evidence is the ammount of subscribers Blizzard has. The game is fun, packed with content, hilarious at times, full of lore, and very deep.
Years ago, before I could play the game because my parents did not let me pay for a subscription fee, I harboured anti-WoW sentiments even though I knew little of the game. I thought the game was for "nerds" or people living in their parent's basement and my classmates frequently joked about it (This was during elementary school, so don't give me grief). I didn't understand what the game was all about, didn't know how good it was, and always thought that games like Runescape were king in the MMORPG district.
I've noticed that on this website WoW has a remarkably low rating compared to how good it actually is. I feel that there's a lot of distaste towards WoW because people believe their MMORPGs are better, have never given WoW a try, etc. I'm getting tired of people dissing WoW and complaining about things like grinding for reputation (which everyone seems to call out despite the fact that WoW's grind is so much less time consuming than most MMORPGs out there). I suspect that many players are jealous that they cannot play WoW (as I was) or tired of their favourite games being beneath WoW. This jealousy has resulted in WoW scoring at 7.73 on this site, which is lower than most games that aren't out yet, and about the same as much worse games like Maplestory (Essentially one big grind with little or no purpose).
What are your thoughts on this?
I actually took your post seriously until I got to that highlighted part. I'm gonna answer seriously anyway though.
People mainly dislike WoW because in many gamers opinions WoW stagnated the mmorpg genre as a whole. Now that all the AAA companies make "WoW-clones" it leaves the less experienced indie companies to support the sandbox players, making mediocre games like Xsyon or Afterworld.Rreally though the hate should go towards the AAA companies imo, since they're to afraid to break the trend of simple themepark games. But it's easy to see where people are coming from, even if it isn't very logical.
Also people could just generally dislike the game, though from what I've seen most people who dislike it are also able to admit it is a very polished game that caters to a wider audience then most mmos before its time. And a majority of the people dislike the direction the game is going, "easy mode", which is my main complaint with WoW.
That's all imo though, so I could be totally wrong xP
Woah now You can't blame Wow for AAA companies not wanting to make games that will not earn them money. Why would they? MMORPG aside - the market for your typical 'sandbox' game is miniscule compared to the market for a decent 'themepark' Please try to remember that these forums in NO way represent even a minor fraction of a single percent of the gaming population. The fact that people always scream loudly here for 'Sandbox' games, in no way means there's any viable market.
Story is the next big thing in MMORPGs and it just so happens WoW has one of the most recognizable stories in history.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Hmm. I'd say that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, the Arthur legends, Game of Thrones and Harry Potter would be the most recognizable stories in history, outside of the MMO scene and those who played Warcraft I very much doubt that the rest of the world is very much aware of WoW's story. Heck, reading the posts I think that a lot of WoW gamers are even that much aware of WoW's story the way they played WoW, so I doubt it's one of the most recognizable stories, the brand name is the only very recognizable part.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will stop playing in about a week, when my subscription runs out.
My main reasons for doing so are:
WOW turned into a lobby game. No sense of 'world', just daily quest hubs, instances, raids and battlegrounds plus flying mounts. I no longer feel immersed while playing. True, it has been like that for quite some time, but I hoped Cataclysm would be good enough for me to overlook this. It isn't.
Cross-server everything. While it might be good from an "easy to access" point of view, it destroyed the feeling of community for me. No one cares enough to say hello at the start of an instance, people acting like complete jerks, knowing they probably won't run into you ever again. Jerks were around before cross-server thing, but they sooner or later had to reroll, migrate and things like that. You acted like a jerk in a couple of runs and pretty much everyone on your server knew your name and knew better than to group with you. I used to make a lot of friends during instance runs, joined their guild, did pvp with them...
With PvP it's another story. I still remember good old days, where you had certain people from your server on your kill on sight list. There was that special feeling of revenge and satisfaction, when you finally managed to kill the guy that was corpse camping your low level alts. You know, stuff like that. With cross-server BGs I just feel detached from my server and the game world.
I however have no problem with cross-server arena. That's really the only right way to do it in my opinion.
Too many pop culture references. I won't loose words here, but it certainly feels wrong in my book. In vanilla it wasn't so bad, some of the references actually brought a smile to my face, but what we have now is just too much. I am more immersed in LOTRO, even with all the BUY NAO! buttons than in WOW.
Homogenization has gone too far. While I see why they are pushing for it, it takes away depth from the game itself. Classes differ in a few animations and differently colored glowing hands, less and less mechanics. This is especially a thorn in my foot, since I play a Shaman, and always wanted to be that class that brings something truly unique to the group.
Bring the player not the class won't work with this. Blizzard fails to understand that if classes are homogenized, raid leaders will only want the class that does better DPS.
Streamlined questing. Again, I understand the reasons for it, but I definitely preferred questing pre-Cata in Azeroth. Now, more than ever, it feels like grinding while doing quests. It's just too linear for my liking. It's true that it allows for better story telling, but leave that to Bioware please. You suck at it. No hidden quests, or very badly hidden... It takes away the exploration. I remember in vanilla I tried to explore every cave I could, just to see if there's anything there. While most of the time the only thing I found was that every cave looked the same, there we're some quests you could get that way. Now you will never go somewhere unless your quest - oh, sorry, your map - tells you to.
No innovation what so ever. I understand them not wanting to take risks, but some might have payed off. More of the same is good while that is good, once it's not so good, it's not good anymore. And I think that's the main reason for those who are leaving. Few years of practically the same is enough for people to be fed up.
Too much handholding and soon most of your playerbase turns into idiots. Then, when you try to present them with some harder content (ala heroics at the start of Cata), the out cry and whining achieves epic proportions on the forums, and Blizzard ofcourse has to lower the bar, again.
Make no mistake, I don't demand time consuming tasks, but challenging ones.
And I can't avoid that feeling that WOW is running on a skeleton dev team at the moment. I'm not saying it is, but I just get this feeling. They probably want their A team working on the Titan. Yay, Achievements for new content. With the money they are making they should be able to pump out actually fun content much faster, but it's true that the guys on top are hardly ever trying their best.
I hope we won't ever see one game dominate on this market again. Competition is what drives developers to make better games and WoW, sadly, has none as of now.
Story is the next big thing in MMORPGs and it just so happens WoW has one of the most recognizable stories in history.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Hmm. I'd say that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, the Arthur legends, Game of Thrones and Harry Potter would be the most recognizable stories in history, outside of the MMO scene and those who played Warcraft I very much doubt that the rest of the world is very much aware of WoW's story. Heck, reading the posts I think that a lot of WoW gamers are even that much aware of WoW's story the way they played WoW, so I doubt it's one of the most recognizable stories, the brand name is the only very recognizable part.
This is true. The history of WarCraft is truly only recognizable to those who have played the games, or have done a lot of reading. As far as gaming stories go, I would surmise that a good percentage of people have at least a grasp of the story, considering how popular the WC RTS series was. As far as the overall story of WoW itself, well most people seem to be somewhat lost with the way they chat even in game. Their grasp of the story is the little bit that we get during raids and pre-raid events.
There are far more recognizable stories out there.
Fine we will have him go back and fix his post now address his issue. This is not gullying people into spending a one time fee to buy a game. I can put crap in a box and have a hugh marketing effort and suckers will buy it in hugh numbers. That is not hard. It is making people pay week after week to get my crap in a box with fresh crap. If they will pay for it then there has to be something of value to my crap. But we can go back to nit picking people's posts for fact checks that add little of real value to the issues at hand. La La La...I love chese...crap I spelled cheese wrong.
What don’t you understand about the fact I was not addressing his whole post, I was just pointing out that it is 12 million subscribers. Let me put it another way for you, I do not give a damn what else he said there, I was just trying to point out some disinformation. You were the one that made a great big deal out of it, and got this topic off hand. Let me repeat again, I do not care what else he said in that post, I was not responding to the rest of it. Does that clear it up for you? Or is that too complicated for you, and your quest to defend World of Warcraft?
Originally posted by kalinis
What ud have is alot of indy guys making games theyw anted with little or no money. so games innovation would be even slower then it is now. Theyd be alot more buggy and for the most part companins would keep there budgets lower then the reported 150 million bioware is spending on tor.
So you are saying that only independent developers would be making games if World of Warcraft was never invented? So then that means all of the games in development before WoW started breaking records must have been indy developers, by your logic. Well since WoW only started posting huge subscriber numbers, like no other MMO before it, in late 2005 and the start of 2006. Like with this news announcement in January 2006 of Blizzard reaching 5.5 million worldwide subscribers!
So then from that point on by your logic, Blizzard started bringing in the bigger companies, and it was not just Indy developers anymore. Well at E3 2004 NCSoft presented Auto Assault, City Of Villians, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, and Tabula Rasa. Oh that was before WoW showed the business so that means NCSoft must be an Indy developer. Also Turbine bought the rights to LOTRO in March 2005, and they first signed a deal with Sierra on-line to help make Middle Earth online in 2003. That was before Blizzard and WoWs huge success, so that means Turbine is an Indy developer too.
FunCom at E3 2004 was presenting an Anarchy Online expansion, so that means FunCom is a Indy Developer too. Sony Online at E3 2004 was presenting Everquest 2, so that means Sony is an Indy Developer too.
You are so right there was absolutely no interest in MMOs besides Indy developers before WoW. And that is definitely all will we would have ever had without Blizzard. Although I did not realize all of those companies investing in MMOs before WoW were Indy developers, thanks for clearing that up for us.
Yep nothing like over stretching the truth to make a game you like sound extremely important to the gaming genre. Yep without Blizzard there would be no AAA MMOs, it would be all Indy developers. It is not like NCSoft , Turbine, or even Funcom would of kept putting money into MMO games. They were not doing it before WoW, why would they be doing it if WoW didn’t exist….oh wait.
Hmm. I'd say that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, the Arthur legends, Game of Thrones and Harry Potter would be the most recognizable stories in history, outside of the MMO scene and those who played Warcraft I very much doubt that the rest of the world is very much aware of WoW's story. Heck, reading the posts I think that a lot of WoW gamers are even that much aware of WoW's story the way they played WoW, so I doubt it's one of the most recognizable stories, the brand name is the only very recognizable part.
I found it really weird that you snuck Game of Thrones in there. It's nowhere even in the same league as the other things you listed. (So far as being a recognizable story, not talking quality here)
For example, the Harry Potter books have sold =hundreds= of millions of copies, while Game of Thrones hasn't even sold 10 million yet.
I'd also say that there's a lot of stories that are in the big leagues well beyond Game of Thrones (Some of which far surpass ANYthing you listed)
The Bible, the Koran, several fairy tales, Journey to the West, Romeo and Juliet, Romance of Three Kingdoms, Ramayana, Aesop's Fables...
Hmm. I'd say that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, the Arthur legends, Game of Thrones and Harry Potter would be the most recognizable stories in history, outside of the MMO scene and those who played Warcraft I very much doubt that the rest of the world is very much aware of WoW's story. Heck, reading the posts I think that a lot of WoW gamers are even that much aware of WoW's story the way they played WoW, so I doubt it's one of the most recognizable stories, the brand name is the only very recognizable part.
I found it really weird that you snuck Game of Thrones in there. It's nowhere even in the same league as the other things you listed. (So far as being a recognizable story, not talking quality here)
For example, the Harry Potter books have sold =hundreds= of millions of copies, while Game of Thrones hasn't even sold 10 million yet.
I'd also say that there's a lot of stories that are in the big leagues well beyond Game of Thrones (Some of which far surpass ANYthing you listed)
The Bible, the Koran, several fairy tales, Journey to the West, Romeo and Juliet, Romance of Three Kingdoms, Ramayana, Aesop's Fables...
Yeah, it popped up, must be because of the tv series that is fresh in my mind, sue me
Still, I think that the number of people aware of the story in George RR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series surpass the number of people that are familiar with the story in WoW.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yeah, it popped up, must be because of the tv series that is fresh in my mind, sue me
Still, I think that the number of people aware of the story in George RR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series surpass the number of people that are familiar with the story in WoW.
I will sue you! I'll sue you for uhm... emotional.... damages.
.... more seriously, I think more people are familiar with WoW than Song of Fire and Ice...
... but yeah, if you're talking STORY, then more people are familiar with Song of Fire and Ice's story, because I think most WoW players only have a hazy idea of what the story in WoW actually is. At least, that's been my experience.
The whole thing about buying a book is that theoretically that means you will become familiar with the story, because that's all there IS to a book.
You can buy WoW and play it for years, and have only a vague passing familiarity with the story.
I've played WoW for years and loved it. Game review websites, critics, and players have found the game extremely enjoyable, and the evidence is the ammount of subscribers Blizzard has. The game is fun, packed with content, hilarious at times, full of lore, and very deep.
Years ago, before I could play the game because my parents did not let me pay for a subscription fee, I harboured anti-WoW sentiments even though I knew little of the game. I thought the game was for "nerds" or people living in their parent's basement and my classmates frequently joked about it (This was during elementary school, so don't give me grief). I didn't understand what the game was all about, didn't know how good it was, and always thought that games like Runescape were king in the MMORPG district.
I've noticed that on this website WoW has a remarkably low rating compared to how good it actually is. I feel that there's a lot of distaste towards WoW because people believe their MMORPGs are better, have never given WoW a try, etc. I'm getting tired of people dissing WoW and complaining about things like grinding for reputation (which everyone seems to call out despite the fact that WoW's grind is so much less time consuming than most MMORPGs out there). I suspect that many players are jealous that they cannot play WoW (as I was) or tired of their favourite games being beneath WoW. This jealousy has resulted in WoW scoring at 7.73 on this site, which is lower than most games that aren't out yet, and about the same as much worse games like Maplestory (Essentially one big grind with little or no purpose).
What are your thoughts on this?
This site tends to harbor the dissalusioned and unstable. The majority of posters here have strong opinions due to being scarred by MMO experiences; or just general jealousy and griefing traits. Some come here like myself because they find such negativeness confusing and Hillarious.....
What you see here is nothing to do with WoW look at the other forumns you will see the same crowds.
I don't like wow through personal choice; The community in teh game in my opinion is too immature.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I played WoW for 6 months when it was first released. It was just so boring for me, grind grind grind, but i played an MMO that actually had a fun end game before i played WoW, that being DAoC.
Im not a hampster, i dont find running on a wheel all day and getting nowhere to be fun. To me that is what WoW is.
I hate WoW because they introduced the most boring stupid game mechanics. They took MMOs, something that belonged mainly to above average intelligence "computer nerds", and gave them to the common person. In the process, they had to dumb them down, because the average computer user is not as smart in todays world of ubiquitous computers, as they were when only "computer nerds" had computers.
They took any challenge out of the genre, they took intelligence out of the equation, and they took skill out of the equation.
Before WoW mmos were Worlds to be explored, not theme parks that held you by the hand and spoon fed you, and then treated you like a hampster after you did the work to level to 50, by making you do the same boring dungeons over and over and over.
People like WoW, because it is like a flat ski mountain, everybody is a rockstar. They like it because they dont know any better.
Mainly i believe the success of WoW is due almost entirely to the fact that they spend a ton of money advertising, and marketing the game, something no mmo ever did. That and they made it able to run on pretty much any crappy computer.
A lot of things make WoW popular, none of them imo are things that also make it a fun game.
On the other hand, hampsters DO seem to enjoy that wheel, so go run around on it all you want, just dont be surprised when you realize you arent getting anywhere.
Comments
i do understand mmo's existed before wow but wow broke barriers in subs no other game came close to.
to say its ruining the industry as most do is ridiculous. Im not saying mmo's wouldnt exist . Im saying u wouldnt have companies poring miillions of dollars into them if they werent hoping to hit on what blizzard did with wow.
What ud have is alot of indy guys making games theyw anted with little or no money. so games innovation would be even slower then it is now. Theyd be alot more buggy and for the most part companins would keep there budgets lower then the reported 150 million bioware is spending on tor.
Truth is wow made big companies go wow look at that we want a piece of that market and got alot of companies that werent interested in mmos into the game.
Sure mmos would exist but i bet ud have less innovation then u do now.
i have played wow for almost 6 yrs i love to level alts. the questing in wow has only gotten better especially in cata. u can argue all u want about raids and dungeons but i still lvoe them
The dungeons in cata are alot more challenging then they were in lk. Im having alot of fun in cata. That doesnt make me a brain dead idiot which i get called alot for defending wow.
Look i dont like that tanking was maade harder and mana regen got to be a pain in the butt. But for the most part i like cata. Im not saying u have to like wow. Im just sayign i am allowed to like it and enjoy wow without being a brain dead idiot.
I'm not attacking your age, my point is that your new to the game. Of course your going to like it. Wait untill you hit end game and realize that its all about who has the best eye candy and who can repeat the same process over and over again the quickest for same thing.. eye candy. Maybe you already have, but it will get boring very quick. Also WoW has no community anymore, it's dead/dieing in that aspect. Nobody wants to group for quests because they all want to solo and the random dungeon que has made things so convinient that nobody in dungeons even talk anymore. Wheres the joy in a game like this? Log in and do the same daily quests, grind for the same rep, grind for honor and all for the same thing... pretty looking gear.
And Lotro is in absolutely no way a WoW clone, where did that come from? Not everything is a WoW clone so please don't start that.
I can't wait for GW2 it'll blow WoW away. And unlike some companies they have to put in hard work with constant content updates to keep their customers happy =]
Most people go through life pretending to be a boss. I go through life pretending I'm not.
Ive played WoW for years and my opinion is that CATA is the worse xpac ever. Nuff said.
You are so right, the facts do not matter it is only the point someone is trying to make.
Like if I said Mass Effect 2 was the greatest game ever made because it sold a billion copies in 30 days. It doesn’t matter the number I use; it is the fact that it is a highly regarded game that is important.
Oh and also I can talk to dolphins and I have been to Mars, and both Martians and dolphins love World of Warcraft.
Yep you are right facts don’t matter at all.
Just like you jumping to conclusions about why I made the post, it really doesn’t matter why I made it. It only matters that you view it as an attack on world of warcraft. But oh my God if we look at the fact that I was making the post to correct some disinformation, then this whole argument you are making is pointless. We cannot have that we must defend World of Warcraft from all foes, even the ones made up in our own minds. Yes another Blizzard angle gets his wings.
If you would try playing another game, instead of just being a WoW fanboi, you might realize that most game devs introduce new patches and content a few times a year.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
well said brother.
Thing people dont take in consideration is, that most people who play wow have played it for a longer period (there are little people who start out fresh with no experience with the game.)
so we take it that most people who talk about wow, have been playing the same game for 1-5years. Ofcourse they are going to downrate it, there are no games that get plain when you play it for 5 years in mass amounts.
thing is, that the game in its current state is great, if you'd set out WoW to a new audiance of people who never played/heard of the game, they will probably be stunned by how good the game actually is. Its depth and rich story driven world, its graphical atmosphere that is better than MOST mmos. it all fits together, everyone who started out can remember their first month of being new to the game, the epic journeys you'd embark on with your friends. The first time you entered contested terretory which gave you a minor thrill.
you might think that all this does not relate, but to me it makes perfect sense. The people who rate wow are bored of this game, because they over played it. Statisticly, the game should be really involving and fun. and I'm most confident that if everyones memmory of playing wow was erased, and it launched as a brand new game in the MMO market. It would skyrocket over those 12mil subs.
skaffa boy, so if this sounds weird, please ignore me ;x
"You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn."
Fine we will have him go back and fix his post now address his issue. This is not gullying people into spending a one time fee to buy a game. I can put crap in a box and have a hugh marketing effort and suckers will buy it in hugh numbers. That is not hard. It is making people pay week after week to get my crap in a box with fresh crap. If they will pay for it then there has to be something of value to my crap. But we can go back to nit picking people's posts for fact checks that add little of real value to the issues at hand. La La La...I love chese...crap I spelled cheese wrong.
"Tired of their favorite game being beneath WoW"
This is a funny sentence for a couple of reasons. First of all, in the view of someone who has a favorite game, their game would not be beneath WoW, that is your opinion (that their favorite game is beneath WoW). Second, who even cares? If I am playing a game, for instance I played Haven and Hearth for a while, then I dont worry about how "popular" it is, because that is all in the eye of the beholder. Haven and Hearth is so extremely small compared to games such as WoW, but did that bother me? not in the slightest. I enjoyed my time there.
My point is, why be jealous of WoW? As long as you can have the option to play what you enjoy then who cares what others are doing. The reaon for dislike of WoW, even if it is a good game, is because now there has been little deviation from the proven formula and people are getting fewer and fewer choices of what to play. So much so that WoW as become the epitome of what an MMO can be, eventhough there are other types.
Anyway, my thoughts are that you shouldn't let the views of this particular site irk you so much. There will always be an opion that differs from yours. Everyone already knows WoW was a success, so one site has a lower score for it and you want to claim that that opinion is based off of jealousy and misinformation? Different people like different things. I for one played WoW for quite a while. Enjoyed it for even less. Now I don't play. Pretty simple to me.
Game hate is really nothing new. Back in the day the flame wars between EQ and AC players...then DAoC came in and the three-way began.
Simple answer for you. Oh and i have played Wow since vanilla beta.
Catclysm Sucks!
1) Phasing
2) No world PVP
3) healing/tank nerfs
4) Guild leveling destroyed guilds
5) Graphics to childish/cartoony
6) talent tree restrictions no more hybrids.
7) rehashing of content when the company makes 140 million a month.
8) LFD destroyed server communitys
9) locked out of Pugs when a certain level is reached.
10) faction boss raids eliminated
11) old expansion zones dead
12) I have around 35 more!
I wont bore you with the rest. Wow is dying due to cataclysm. What the simple minds wanted they got. now 4 year olds can play it so easy. good luck OP we will see you back here when you hit the wall with Wow like many have.
TY TY TY and nuff said omg this is how im sure most mature WoW players or EX WoW players feel I know I do.
13) ppl dont know how to play there class anymore because lich king ruined it.
14) CC what is CC lol
15) ppl who roll a scrub tank jst because they don't want to wait in que.
lmao
I have and no, they don't compare to WoW in that regard.
If it wasn't WoW, it would be some other game. People hate the "Cool" thing. Just as people hate on Apple for their products, so too do people hate on games.
Hating on what's popular has been around long before video games, and it isn't exclusive to video games either. WoW is popular; It's big and many people like it. Because of this, it's hard to ignore.
Many people look to WoW as the definition of MMORPGs, but MMORPGs aren't stagnant. They evolve. As they evolve, things that we once held in high regards start to wane. WoW continues to evolve and take huge risky steps to please its customers. Something many companies just aren't willing to do. WoW destroys its own world *permantly*. How many other MMORPGs can say they've done the same successfully?
WoW will continue to live so long as it can keep up with the evolving technology. It's doing great jobs with it's new Phasing technology and puts a much needed emphasis on story and change in the world.
Story is the next big thing in MMORPGs and it just so happens WoW has one of the most recognizable stories in history.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
I think it is because WOW has reached Microsoft status. There are people who will hate something that is popular ( or a near monopoly) just because they are jealous of success. Anyone who has the masses following them, obviously caters to the masses ( an oxymoron) and therefore is open to ridicule for selling out.
Mostly it is just angry, bitter people who hang out on small corners of the internet hating everything that is popular or successful.
How can anyone take this seriously? He didn't like Wow becasue kids at school like Runescape....and now he likes it everyone who doesn't is jealous/retarded...
Nothing to see here, move along :P
Woah now
You can't blame Wow for AAA companies not wanting to make games that will not earn them money. Why would they? MMORPG aside - the market for your typical 'sandbox' game is miniscule compared to the market for a decent 'themepark' Please try to remember that these forums in NO way represent even a minor fraction of a single percent of the gaming population. The fact that people always scream loudly here for 'Sandbox' games, in no way means there's any viable market.
Hmm. I'd say that Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, the Arthur legends, Game of Thrones and Harry Potter would be the most recognizable stories in history, outside of the MMO scene and those who played Warcraft I very much doubt that the rest of the world is very much aware of WoW's story. Heck, reading the posts I think that a lot of WoW gamers are even that much aware of WoW's story the way they played WoW, so I doubt it's one of the most recognizable stories, the brand name is the only very recognizable part.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will stop playing in about a week, when my subscription runs out.
My main reasons for doing so are:
WOW turned into a lobby game. No sense of 'world', just daily quest hubs, instances, raids and battlegrounds plus flying mounts. I no longer feel immersed while playing. True, it has been like that for quite some time, but I hoped Cataclysm would be good enough for me to overlook this. It isn't.
Cross-server everything. While it might be good from an "easy to access" point of view, it destroyed the feeling of community for me. No one cares enough to say hello at the start of an instance, people acting like complete jerks, knowing they probably won't run into you ever again. Jerks were around before cross-server thing, but they sooner or later had to reroll, migrate and things like that. You acted like a jerk in a couple of runs and pretty much everyone on your server knew your name and knew better than to group with you. I used to make a lot of friends during instance runs, joined their guild, did pvp with them...
With PvP it's another story. I still remember good old days, where you had certain people from your server on your kill on sight list. There was that special feeling of revenge and satisfaction, when you finally managed to kill the guy that was corpse camping your low level alts. You know, stuff like that. With cross-server BGs I just feel detached from my server and the game world.
I however have no problem with cross-server arena. That's really the only right way to do it in my opinion.
Too many pop culture references. I won't loose words here, but it certainly feels wrong in my book. In vanilla it wasn't so bad, some of the references actually brought a smile to my face, but what we have now is just too much. I am more immersed in LOTRO, even with all the BUY NAO! buttons than in WOW.
Homogenization has gone too far. While I see why they are pushing for it, it takes away depth from the game itself. Classes differ in a few animations and differently colored glowing hands, less and less mechanics. This is especially a thorn in my foot, since I play a Shaman, and always wanted to be that class that brings something truly unique to the group.
Bring the player not the class won't work with this. Blizzard fails to understand that if classes are homogenized, raid leaders will only want the class that does better DPS.
Streamlined questing. Again, I understand the reasons for it, but I definitely preferred questing pre-Cata in Azeroth. Now, more than ever, it feels like grinding while doing quests. It's just too linear for my liking. It's true that it allows for better story telling, but leave that to Bioware please. You suck at it. No hidden quests, or very badly hidden... It takes away the exploration. I remember in vanilla I tried to explore every cave I could, just to see if there's anything there. While most of the time the only thing I found was that every cave looked the same, there we're some quests you could get that way. Now you will never go somewhere unless your quest - oh, sorry, your map - tells you to.
No innovation what so ever. I understand them not wanting to take risks, but some might have payed off. More of the same is good while that is good, once it's not so good, it's not good anymore. And I think that's the main reason for those who are leaving. Few years of practically the same is enough for people to be fed up.
Too much handholding and soon most of your playerbase turns into idiots. Then, when you try to present them with some harder content (ala heroics at the start of Cata), the out cry and whining achieves epic proportions on the forums, and Blizzard ofcourse has to lower the bar, again.
Make no mistake, I don't demand time consuming tasks, but challenging ones.
And I can't avoid that feeling that WOW is running on a skeleton dev team at the moment. I'm not saying it is, but I just get this feeling. They probably want their A team working on the Titan. Yay, Achievements for new content. With the money they are making they should be able to pump out actually fun content much faster, but it's true that the guys on top are hardly ever trying their best.
I hope we won't ever see one game dominate on this market again. Competition is what drives developers to make better games and WoW, sadly, has none as of now.
-Zulbas
This is true. The history of WarCraft is truly only recognizable to those who have played the games, or have done a lot of reading. As far as gaming stories go, I would surmise that a good percentage of people have at least a grasp of the story, considering how popular the WC RTS series was. As far as the overall story of WoW itself, well most people seem to be somewhat lost with the way they chat even in game. Their grasp of the story is the little bit that we get during raids and pre-raid events.
There are far more recognizable stories out there.
What don’t you understand about the fact I was not addressing his whole post, I was just pointing out that it is 12 million subscribers. Let me put it another way for you, I do not give a damn what else he said there, I was just trying to point out some disinformation. You were the one that made a great big deal out of it, and got this topic off hand. Let me repeat again, I do not care what else he said in that post, I was not responding to the rest of it. Does that clear it up for you? Or is that too complicated for you, and your quest to defend World of Warcraft?
So you are saying that only independent developers would be making games if World of Warcraft was never invented? So then that means all of the games in development before WoW started breaking records must have been indy developers, by your logic. Well since WoW only started posting huge subscriber numbers, like no other MMO before it, in late 2005 and the start of 2006. Like with this news announcement in January 2006 of Blizzard reaching 5.5 million worldwide subscribers!
So then from that point on by your logic, Blizzard started bringing in the bigger companies, and it was not just Indy developers anymore. Well at E3 2004 NCSoft presented Auto Assault, City Of Villians, Guild Wars, Lineage 2, and Tabula Rasa. Oh that was before WoW showed the business so that means NCSoft must be an Indy developer. Also Turbine bought the rights to LOTRO in March 2005, and they first signed a deal with Sierra on-line to help make Middle Earth online in 2003. That was before Blizzard and WoWs huge success, so that means Turbine is an Indy developer too.
FunCom at E3 2004 was presenting an Anarchy Online expansion, so that means FunCom is a Indy Developer too. Sony Online at E3 2004 was presenting Everquest 2, so that means Sony is an Indy Developer too.
You are so right there was absolutely no interest in MMOs besides Indy developers before WoW. And that is definitely all will we would have ever had without Blizzard. Although I did not realize all of those companies investing in MMOs before WoW were Indy developers, thanks for clearing that up for us.
Yep nothing like over stretching the truth to make a game you like sound extremely important to the gaming genre. Yep without Blizzard there would be no AAA MMOs, it would be all Indy developers. It is not like NCSoft , Turbine, or even Funcom would of kept putting money into MMO games. They were not doing it before WoW, why would they be doing it if WoW didn’t exist….oh wait.
I found it really weird that you snuck Game of Thrones in there. It's nowhere even in the same league as the other things you listed. (So far as being a recognizable story, not talking quality here)
For example, the Harry Potter books have sold =hundreds= of millions of copies, while Game of Thrones hasn't even sold 10 million yet.
I'd also say that there's a lot of stories that are in the big leagues well beyond Game of Thrones (Some of which far surpass ANYthing you listed)
The Bible, the Koran, several fairy tales, Journey to the West, Romeo and Juliet, Romance of Three Kingdoms, Ramayana, Aesop's Fables...
Yeah, it popped up, must be because of the tv series that is fresh in my mind, sue me
Still, I think that the number of people aware of the story in George RR Martin's Song of Fire and Ice series surpass the number of people that are familiar with the story in WoW.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will sue you! I'll sue you for uhm... emotional.... damages.
.... more seriously, I think more people are familiar with WoW than Song of Fire and Ice...
... but yeah, if you're talking STORY, then more people are familiar with Song of Fire and Ice's story, because I think most WoW players only have a hazy idea of what the story in WoW actually is.
At least, that's been my experience.
The whole thing about buying a book is that theoretically that means you will become familiar with the story, because that's all there IS to a book.
You can buy WoW and play it for years, and have only a vague passing familiarity with the story.
This site tends to harbor the dissalusioned and unstable. The majority of posters here have strong opinions due to being scarred by MMO experiences; or just general jealousy and griefing traits. Some come here like myself because they find such negativeness confusing and Hillarious.....
What you see here is nothing to do with WoW look at the other forumns you will see the same crowds.
I don't like wow through personal choice; The community in teh game in my opinion is too immature.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I played WoW for 6 months when it was first released. It was just so boring for me, grind grind grind, but i played an MMO that actually had a fun end game before i played WoW, that being DAoC.
Im not a hampster, i dont find running on a wheel all day and getting nowhere to be fun. To me that is what WoW is.
I hate WoW because they introduced the most boring stupid game mechanics. They took MMOs, something that belonged mainly to above average intelligence "computer nerds", and gave them to the common person. In the process, they had to dumb them down, because the average computer user is not as smart in todays world of ubiquitous computers, as they were when only "computer nerds" had computers.
They took any challenge out of the genre, they took intelligence out of the equation, and they took skill out of the equation.
Before WoW mmos were Worlds to be explored, not theme parks that held you by the hand and spoon fed you, and then treated you like a hampster after you did the work to level to 50, by making you do the same boring dungeons over and over and over.
People like WoW, because it is like a flat ski mountain, everybody is a rockstar. They like it because they dont know any better.
Mainly i believe the success of WoW is due almost entirely to the fact that they spend a ton of money advertising, and marketing the game, something no mmo ever did. That and they made it able to run on pretty much any crappy computer.
A lot of things make WoW popular, none of them imo are things that also make it a fun game.
On the other hand, hampsters DO seem to enjoy that wheel, so go run around on it all you want, just dont be surprised when you realize you arent getting anywhere.