Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
SWTOR - Other language translation. GW2 - Other language translation.
Feel free to add stuff that GW2 does not have and SWTOR does
Feel free to add stuff that SWTOR does not have and GW2 does Did not put this line in other post, you know the reasons.
{Mod edit - Added "vs GW2" to thread title to avoid confusion}
You missed on obvious and Very major difference.
SWTOR = SciFi Genre, Guild Wars = Fantasy Genre
Some people are fans of both others are only fans of one genre, Either way its a different genre & has different levels of appeal to different people.
Me Personally ? I have had more than enough of Fantasy MMO's and have been waiting for someone to make a decent Sci-Fi MMO. Will SWTOR be any good ? I dont know yet.
All that said SWTOR does not impress me at this time and locking all the classes to factions is a mistake IMHO (smuggler & bounty hunter should not be faction specific) and the game is not shaping up to be what I was hoping for, it looks more like a Massive Singleplayer Online game.
Roll on Warhammer 40k and keep Mythic the hell away from it.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
Meh -- I see both sides , yes they are reskinned humanoids .. and no they arn't literally re-skinned humanoids.
Were they conceptalized and designed without the aid of a cut , paste, and lets add this here design ; no. Could you strip everything that makes them a "Charr" and show the "human" aspect, yes.
Besides all re-skinning something is is adding to a basic design, they started with a bipedal humanoid ... and added to it until they had their vision of a Charr.
So they are re-skinned humanoids, and they are not.
Originally posted by maskedweasel And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
I don't think you understand what a skin is.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
I don't think you understand what a skin is.
Oh no, I do, but ultimately you can take a model and change it with horns, tentacles, extra arms and so forth, change the color and call it any number of races. If we wanted to actually take into consideration what the actual models end up looking like, then you have a number of races that aren't technically "reskinned" humans. In the end though, not only is a Charr humanoid, but really, their differences from the human model are really only about as different as say, a Twi-lek, Togruta or Nautolan in a Feral stance.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
When it comes down to it you can take any race and boil it down and call it a reskinned human, but to actually do that would be just stupid.
Call it stupid if you want, but you just took a Trandoshan.. and called it a reskinned human, yet you think a Charr isn't? Thats quite a joke and rather hypocritical. Fangs, cat claws, horns and a tail count but Spines, Scales, 3 fingers and Big lizard eyes don't?
I wonder what you think about rodians, Mon Calamari, Togruta and the like. This is just getting silly now.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
When it comes down to it you can take any race and boil it down and call it a reskinned human, but to actually do that would be just stupid.
Call it stupid if you want, but you just took a Trandoshan.. and called it a reskinned human, yet you think a Charr isn't? Thats quite a joke and rather hypocritical. Fangs, cat claws, horns and a tail count but Spines, Scales, 3 fingers and Big lizard eyes don't?
I wonder what you think about rodians, Mon Calamari, Togruta and the like. This is just getting silly now.
The problem with what you said is that you are only looking at little things added on. Fangs, claws, horns and a tail are only added on just as spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes. But the difference is the BODY STRUCTURE.
The Trandoshan has spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes all added onto A HUMAN BODY.
A Charr has fangs, horns, claws and a tail added onto something that is similar to a human body but isn't. The legs certainly aren't from a human body. And humans definitely don't have a body that is designed to be spent hunched over or moving on all 4 limbs.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
When it comes down to it you can take any race and boil it down and call it a reskinned human, but to actually do that would be just stupid.
Call it stupid if you want, but you just took a Trandoshan.. and called it a reskinned human, yet you think a Charr isn't? Thats quite a joke and rather hypocritical. Fangs, cat claws, horns and a tail count but Spines, Scales, 3 fingers and Big lizard eyes don't?
I wonder what you think about rodians, Mon Calamari, Togruta and the like. This is just getting silly now.
The problem with what you said is that you are only looking at little things added on. Fangs, claws, horns and a tail are only added on just as spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes. But the difference is the BODY STRUCTURE.
The Trandoshan has spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes all added onto A HUMAN BODY.
A Charr has fangs, horns, claws and a tail added onto something that is similar to a human body but isn't. The legs certainly aren't from a human body. And humans definitely don't have a body that is designed to be spent hunched over or moving on all 4 limbs.
How is the Charr's legs any different from the 3 claws the Trandoshan has?
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
When it comes down to it you can take any race and boil it down and call it a reskinned human, but to actually do that would be just stupid.
Call it stupid if you want, but you just took a Trandoshan.. and called it a reskinned human, yet you think a Charr isn't? Thats quite a joke and rather hypocritical. Fangs, cat claws, horns and a tail count but Spines, Scales, 3 fingers and Big lizard eyes don't?
I wonder what you think about rodians, Mon Calamari, Togruta and the like. This is just getting silly now.
The problem with what you said is that you are only looking at little things added on. Fangs, claws, horns and a tail are only added on just as spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes. But the difference is the BODY STRUCTURE.
The Trandoshan has spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes all added onto A HUMAN BODY.
A Charr has fangs, horns, claws and a tail added onto something that is similar to a human body but isn't. The legs certainly aren't from a human body. And humans definitely don't have a body that is designed to be spent hunched over or moving on all 4 limbs.
How is the Charr's legs any different from the 3 claws the Trandoshan has?
Because of the legs you figure its not a human skin? Is that to say everything with a bone structure similar to a human couldn't walk on all fours? You brought up a bear before, yet if you look at a bears structure they do walk on all fours and also stand up without a leg structure that way.
So if I built a character off of bears instead of cats, then my bear people would be considered a reskinned human?
Furthermore, again, Champions Online, you take a human model and bend the legs backwards, they have an option for this.
Walking on all fours is something humans can do too, without any change to physical makeup, believe it or not.
Regardless, if it means that much to you to have this one little bit.. thinking that the Charr aren't "reskinned humans" then its whatever makes you happy. In the end, they'll still be running around as the same exact classes as everyone else, for such an inhuman character they sure are treated EXACTLY like humans aside from a feral walk.
Anything that looks or has characteristics of humans is be definition humanoid. 2 arms, 2 legs, how they use them, how they fight, how they dress... all satisfy that definition.
Humanoid does not mean being human. Many people feel that apes are humanoids, and there is a fair amount of evidence backing this. If that bear started using his arms, acting and moving like we do than yes that bear would be humanoid.
Venge
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
When it comes down to it you can take any race and boil it down and call it a reskinned human, but to actually do that would be just stupid.
Call it stupid if you want, but you just took a Trandoshan.. and called it a reskinned human, yet you think a Charr isn't? Thats quite a joke and rather hypocritical. Fangs, cat claws, horns and a tail count but Spines, Scales, 3 fingers and Big lizard eyes don't?
I wonder what you think about rodians, Mon Calamari, Togruta and the like. This is just getting silly now.
The problem with what you said is that you are only looking at little things added on. Fangs, claws, horns and a tail are only added on just as spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes. But the difference is the BODY STRUCTURE.
The Trandoshan has spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes all added onto A HUMAN BODY.
A Charr has fangs, horns, claws and a tail added onto something that is similar to a human body but isn't. The legs certainly aren't from a human body. And humans definitely don't have a body that is designed to be spent hunched over or moving on all 4 limbs.
How is the Charr's legs any different from the 3 claws the Trandoshan has?
Because of the legs you figure its not a human skin? Is that to say everything with a bone structure similar to a human couldn't walk on all fours? You brought up a bear before, yet if you look at a bears structure they do walk on all fours and also stand up without a leg structure that way.
So if I built a character off of bears instead of cats, then my bear people would be considered a reskinned human?
Furthermore, again, Champions Online, you take a human model and bend the legs backwards, they have an option for this.
Walking on all fours is something humans can do too, without any change to physical makeup, believe it or not.
Regardless, if it means that much to you to have this one little bit.. thinking that the Charr aren't "reskinned humans" then its whatever makes you happy. In the end, they'll still be running around as the same exact classes as everyone else, for such an inhuman character they sure are treated EXACTLY like humans aside from a feral walk.
OP made no sense to me. The games arent out yet how can they be compared? Assuming they will be both good, if you're into sci-fi play SWTOR if you're into same'old fantasy play GW2.
Its all about personal taste right now since both games seem good.
OP made no sense to me. The games arent out yet how can they be compared? Assuming they will be both good, if you're into sci-fi play SWTOR if you're into same'old fantasy play GW2.
Its all about personal taste right now since both games seem good.
Both have amazing potential, though that can usually be said of any game in development. We won't really know how they compare until they're released, but I'll never understand the need people have to proselite for their favorite and shit on everything else that will compete with it.
SWTOR - Other language translation. GW2 - Other language translation.
Feel free to add stuff that GW2 does not have and SWTOR does
Feel free to add stuff that SWTOR does not have and GW2 does Did not put this line in other post, you know the reasons.
{Mod edit - Added "vs GW2" to thread title to avoid confusion}
Apples and Oranges, people will play both, its going to be more intresting to see which one has the legs to go for any decent amount of time, I'm going to play ToR, I love the Star Wars games the Bioware have put out and think its worth my money, only time will tell.
S.....Let me give you an example:If I say that Twilight seems like a decent book I could be right. The basic premise of a high-school girl falling for a 100 year old vampire could be decent. Especially if taken in a direction like Let the Right One in. Impressions gained from the book could lead to this.If I say that Twilight is a decent book however I'd be quite wrong. Because this would require me to actually enjoy reading passages like:
Originally posted by Stephanie Meyer
"Aren't you hungry?" he asked, distracted.
"No." I didn't feel like mentioning that my stomach was already full - full of butterflies.
Both are based on opinions. The first however implies I've got limited knowledge of the book and am not sure of my opinion. The second implies that I do have sufficient knowledge of the book and am quite sure of my opinion. Masker10K can not be sure of his opinion, so should not say that GW2 is a better PvE experience, as he does not have sufficient information. I am not sure of my opinion, so I said that I feel SWToR offers a better story, as I do not have sufficient information.
You are still arguing semantics, when you did the exact same thing; you gave an opinion and that opinion has as many facts backing it as anyone else’s that is following the games.
For example, I could look at all of the press releases that ANet has made about the game. Then I could say Guild Wars 2 is the most innovative MMO being designed in the last 10 years. Now when I say this it is just my opinion based on the facts I have looked at. It might be right or wrong but in the end it is still my opinion. Now if you notice I did not say “I think” or” it seems”, I said “it is” which does not disqualify it from being still just my opinion based on facts that I looked at. And you can look at it and go but you do not have enough evidence to say that! Well guess what it is still just my opinion, I am not standing before a grand jury and giving sworn testimony here, I am giving my opinion on a forum.
Hence why I said the post was hypocrisy, I do not need you, neither does anyone else, to tell them they do not have enough facts to forum that opinion. If I am wrong; I can learn that from evidence, I do not need you to make an opinion, and then say your opinion is wrong because you didn’t say I think or it seems. Especially when your opinion has as much truth in it as mine, since neither game is released.
50 Novels would have more dialogue than 60 movies. Well I mean very probably...
Thats if you include all the description in the books and such. I think...
It really depends on the novel. Game of thrones is a serie and the first episode only had the first few chapters in them, and they had cut stuff off and added close to nothing.
While the book describes stuff movies often spend a long time showing you stuff instead.
LOTR would have been at least 20 hours if they filmed the entire book. So no, this only goes for thin books with pretty large writing against moves where they talk a lot.
Arnies "Commando" don't even have enough dialogue for a mid size comic book BTW.
I'll just weigh in with my two cents on the 'reskinned humans' issue.
First of all, I'm not even sure why anybody would bring Trandoshans into the discussion, because so far as we know right now, they're not a playable race in SW:ToR (Unless there's news I've missed? I looked around on the SW:ToR page to double check, but still couldn't find it). If you're talking about non-playable races, both SW:ToR and GW2 have races that are CONSIDERABLY less human than either Trandoshans or Charr.
I figured we were talking just flat out, playable races.
So far as I can tell, all the playable races in SW:ToR literally are reskinned humans, with a little extra polygons slapped on here or there. There's no different animations, the skeletal structure is the EXACT same (Not 'pretty close'... exactly the same.). Basically nothing a determined fan couldn't do with a couple hours of makeup and a prosthetic or two for your head. (Note, that's pretty much what they did for the Star Wars movies. No CG needed.) They did this for a reason... while we'd all like to think that Bioware is made out of LIMITLESS money, and they can do as much as they want, they are under budget restrictions, and they have to figure out what is, and isn't important to them. They decided it's more important to have basically human figures for their storylines, since apparently they've added in some romance options, and apparently they think wookie on human is freaky. (I'm not disagreeing with them, mind you)
Also, due to the sheer amount of cut scenes (Answer? A metric crapload. Maybe even TWO metric craploads), it would be pretty expensive to redo every single one just for a couple races that break the basic human mold. So far as I can tell, everybody is animated the same, can wear the same clothes, and therefore can easily fit into the cut scenes.
For Bioware, picking all races that are literally human reskins makes a lot of sense, and is probably one of the ways they're saving money. (Yes. Even Bioware has to save money. They can't put everything ever in the game. They just can't. They can't even put in everything they would LIKE to put in. Nobody has that sort of money. Until we start seeing MMORPGs produced by countries using their military budget or something.)
Asura are off of the standard human model. Their skeleton is a little freaky. This is the sort of race that if George Lucas put them in the original Star Wars trilogy, probably would have been a muppet, since a midget wouldn't have worked right. They're humanoid, but they're not a human reskin. They need different animations, their skeletal proportions are different, the same armor wouldn't even fit them (Even if resized)
Charr are even more extreme. You could give a human as much makeup time as you want, and a ridiculous prosthetic budget, and they couldn't do it right. Their spine is deformed, and you'd have to break your legs in SO many different places to get the costume right. This is the sort of race that in order to stick it in a movie, you'd have to use CG at least to do the legs. The proportion of their limbs are off, armor has to literally be redesigned to fit them.
.... oh, and the women don't have breasts. For an MMORPG, females not having breasts makes them about as much a human reskin as say... a mailbox. That's maybe the freakiest thing about them, by MMORPG race standards.
So, to recap, this is what a list would look like if you put people on a list of how human they are...
Humans (They win), elves/vulcans/almost all original Star Trek races/most of the SW:ToR playable races, Norn from GW2 (Human reskins), a lot of the Star Wars races like Mon Calamari, Trandoshans (Human skeleton, different facial structure... basically need a halloween mask here, maybe rubber gloves.), Ewoks (Midgets in suits work here.), Star Wars races like Yoda or the GW2 Asura (Still basic human anatomy, but disproportionate to the point where midgets don't cut it anymore.), Charr (Sorry. Even midgets don't work, and you're violating basics of human anatomy. Wrong spine, severely wrong legs.), and finally chickens. (Hey. Chickens are bipedal, have 4 limbs and a torso... if they talked, they'd basically be a human reskin, right?)
Charr are to the far right. They're still humanoid, but they can't be accurately portrayed by a human, even with prosthetic assistance.
Then you go PAST that, to things like Jabba the Hutt, or whatever...
... but being a Hutt is sadly not a playable race in SW:ToR.
(edit: PS. The feral animations in Champions Online are crap, and the way they run doesn't fit the bodies. Also, the digitigrade legs look ridiculous when animated the same basic way human legs are animated. It's pretty poorly done, and a good example of what happens when you treat making that sort of thing as just a human reskin. Looks bad! )
Comments
LOL
I did not think this post would go unti PG 18. And we got off track so bad, people were posting weapons images.
Anyways, we will not know until they come out, GW2, and TOR.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I think thats incorrect actually. Play a game like Champions Online. You start with a human, you change the way the human walks by adding a feral stance. You change his head to look like an eagle, you give him wings, you make him fight using a laser sword, or his hands, or what have you.
Ultimately you start with a human, and you just change the skins and stances. Start with a human, stick on a char head, give him a feral stance, and you have a charr. Pretty much the same.
Then its a damn good thing that thats not what ArenaNet did to make the Charr, isn't it?
http://www.arena.net/blog/the-artistic-origin-of-the-charr
They didn't start with a human and start adding things on. Thats how uncreative and people do it.
You missed on obvious and Very major difference.
SWTOR = SciFi Genre, Guild Wars = Fantasy Genre
Some people are fans of both others are only fans of one genre, Either way its a different genre & has different levels of appeal to different people.
Me Personally ? I have had more than enough of Fantasy MMO's and have been waiting for someone to make a decent Sci-Fi MMO. Will SWTOR be any good ? I dont know yet.
All that said SWTOR does not impress me at this time and locking all the classes to factions is a mistake IMHO (smuggler & bounty hunter should not be faction specific) and the game is not shaping up to be what I was hoping for, it looks more like a Massive Singleplayer Online game.
Roll on Warhammer 40k and keep Mythic the hell away from it.
So instead of making ogres and orcs they essentially made a Kurashasa from Vanguard? Then they added a pair of ears and horns. Is that your final answer?
The Charr are actually my favorite race in GW.... but I'm not in some kind of misconception that they aren't humanoid.
Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter).
Everything else is just a different skin. They could have added wookies and ithorians to SWTOR and people would still say they are too humanoid.
Did you read the first post I made that you quoted?
My argument isn't really that charr aren't humanoid. It's that they aren't "reskinned humans".
And maybe you missed the part where I said "Perhaps the only game I've seen with enough customization to make a non-humanoid character would be DarkSpore.... In spore itself you start with just a cell, and move up to, essentially, a ball of clay. (or a spinal column for that matter). Everything else is just a different skin."
Essentially they are just reskinned humans. They decided they didn't want orcs (green humans with fangs and horns) and wanted more cat like people, so they made feral Cat Orcs ( brown feline humans).
Meh -- I see both sides , yes they are reskinned humanoids .. and no they arn't literally re-skinned humanoids.
Were they conceptalized and designed without the aid of a cut , paste, and lets add this here design ; no. Could you strip everything that makes them a "Charr" and show the "human" aspect, yes.
Besides all re-skinning something is is adding to a basic design, they started with a bipedal humanoid ... and added to it until they had their vision of a Charr.
So they are re-skinned humanoids, and they are not.
I don't think you understand what a skin is.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin
In Bioware we trust!
Oh no, I do, but ultimately you can take a model and change it with horns, tentacles, extra arms and so forth, change the color and call it any number of races. If we wanted to actually take into consideration what the actual models end up looking like, then you have a number of races that aren't technically "reskinned" humans. In the end though, not only is a Charr humanoid, but really, their differences from the human model are really only about as different as say, a Twi-lek, Togruta or Nautolan in a Feral stance.
When I think of re-skinned humans I think of this:
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/inhabitants/sith-pureblood
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/inhabitants/zabrak
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/inhabitants/chiss
The only differences these have from a human that don't have to do with lore are skin color and facial features.
Even these 2 have nothing different other than facial features and skin color:
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/inhabitants/gormak
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/inhabitants/trandoshan
Every last one of those races has the same exact body structure.
These are humans: http://www.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/screenshots/human/human-01.jpg
These are not reskinned humans: http://www.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/screenshots/charr/charr-01.jpg
When it comes down to it you can take any race and boil it down and call it a reskinned human, but to actually do that would be just stupid.
Call it stupid if you want, but you just took a Trandoshan.. and called it a reskinned human, yet you think a Charr isn't? Thats quite a joke and rather hypocritical. Fangs, cat claws, horns and a tail count but Spines, Scales, 3 fingers and Big lizard eyes don't?
I wonder what you think about rodians, Mon Calamari, Togruta and the like. This is just getting silly now.
The problem with what you said is that you are only looking at little things added on. Fangs, claws, horns and a tail are only added on just as spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes. But the difference is the BODY STRUCTURE.
The Trandoshan has spines, scales, 3 fingers and big eyes all added onto A HUMAN BODY.
A Charr has fangs, horns, claws and a tail added onto something that is similar to a human body but isn't. The legs certainly aren't from a human body. And humans definitely don't have a body that is designed to be spent hunched over or moving on all 4 limbs.
How is the Charr's legs any different from the 3 claws the Trandoshan has?
In Bioware we trust!
Because of the legs you figure its not a human skin? Is that to say everything with a bone structure similar to a human couldn't walk on all fours? You brought up a bear before, yet if you look at a bears structure they do walk on all fours and also stand up without a leg structure that way.
So if I built a character off of bears instead of cats, then my bear people would be considered a reskinned human?
Furthermore, again, Champions Online, you take a human model and bend the legs backwards, they have an option for this.
Walking on all fours is something humans can do too, without any change to physical makeup, believe it or not.
Regardless, if it means that much to you to have this one little bit.. thinking that the Charr aren't "reskinned humans" then its whatever makes you happy. In the end, they'll still be running around as the same exact classes as everyone else, for such an inhuman character they sure are treated EXACTLY like humans aside from a feral walk.
The Charr is simply an anthropomorphic yak.
Flaming thread much...
OP made no sense to me. The games arent out yet how can they be compared? Assuming they will be both good, if you're into sci-fi play SWTOR if you're into same'old fantasy play GW2.
Its all about personal taste right now since both games seem good.
Both have amazing potential, though that can usually be said of any game in development. We won't really know how they compare until they're released, but I'll never understand the need people have to proselite for their favorite and shit on everything else that will compete with it.
Apples and Oranges, people will play both, its going to be more intresting to see which one has the legs to go for any decent amount of time, I'm going to play ToR, I love the Star Wars games the Bioware have put out and think its worth my money, only time will tell.
You are still arguing semantics, when you did the exact same thing; you gave an opinion and that opinion has as many facts backing it as anyone else’s that is following the games.
For example, I could look at all of the press releases that ANet has made about the game. Then I could say Guild Wars 2 is the most innovative MMO being designed in the last 10 years. Now when I say this it is just my opinion based on the facts I have looked at. It might be right or wrong but in the end it is still my opinion. Now if you notice I did not say “I think” or” it seems”, I said “it is” which does not disqualify it from being still just my opinion based on facts that I looked at. And you can look at it and go but you do not have enough evidence to say that! Well guess what it is still just my opinion, I am not standing before a grand jury and giving sworn testimony here, I am giving my opinion on a forum.
Hence why I said the post was hypocrisy, I do not need you, neither does anyone else, to tell them they do not have enough facts to forum that opinion. If I am wrong; I can learn that from evidence, I do not need you to make an opinion, and then say your opinion is wrong because you didn’t say I think or it seems. Especially when your opinion has as much truth in it as mine, since neither game is released.
Thats if you include all the description in the books and such. I think...
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
It really depends on the novel. Game of thrones is a serie and the first episode only had the first few chapters in them, and they had cut stuff off and added close to nothing.
While the book describes stuff movies often spend a long time showing you stuff instead.
LOTR would have been at least 20 hours if they filmed the entire book. So no, this only goes for thin books with pretty large writing against moves where they talk a lot.
Arnies "Commando" don't even have enough dialogue for a mid size comic book BTW.
As someone who has played SWTOR extensively.
OP doesn't know what he's talking about, move along.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I'll just weigh in with my two cents on the 'reskinned humans' issue.
First of all, I'm not even sure why anybody would bring Trandoshans into the discussion, because so far as we know right now, they're not a playable race in SW:ToR (Unless there's news I've missed? I looked around on the SW:ToR page to double check, but still couldn't find it). If you're talking about non-playable races, both SW:ToR and GW2 have races that are CONSIDERABLY less human than either Trandoshans or Charr.
I figured we were talking just flat out, playable races.
So far as I can tell, all the playable races in SW:ToR literally are reskinned humans, with a little extra polygons slapped on here or there. There's no different animations, the skeletal structure is the EXACT same (Not 'pretty close'... exactly the same.). Basically nothing a determined fan couldn't do with a couple hours of makeup and a prosthetic or two for your head. (Note, that's pretty much what they did for the Star Wars movies. No CG needed.) They did this for a reason... while we'd all like to think that Bioware is made out of LIMITLESS money, and they can do as much as they want, they are under budget restrictions, and they have to figure out what is, and isn't important to them. They decided it's more important to have basically human figures for their storylines, since apparently they've added in some romance options, and apparently they think wookie on human is freaky. (I'm not disagreeing with them, mind you)
Also, due to the sheer amount of cut scenes (Answer? A metric crapload. Maybe even TWO metric craploads), it would be pretty expensive to redo every single one just for a couple races that break the basic human mold. So far as I can tell, everybody is animated the same, can wear the same clothes, and therefore can easily fit into the cut scenes.
For Bioware, picking all races that are literally human reskins makes a lot of sense, and is probably one of the ways they're saving money. (Yes. Even Bioware has to save money. They can't put everything ever in the game. They just can't. They can't even put in everything they would LIKE to put in. Nobody has that sort of money. Until we start seeing MMORPGs produced by countries using their military budget or something.)
Asura are off of the standard human model. Their skeleton is a little freaky. This is the sort of race that if George Lucas put them in the original Star Wars trilogy, probably would have been a muppet, since a midget wouldn't have worked right. They're humanoid, but they're not a human reskin. They need different animations, their skeletal proportions are different, the same armor wouldn't even fit them (Even if resized)
Charr are even more extreme. You could give a human as much makeup time as you want, and a ridiculous prosthetic budget, and they couldn't do it right. Their spine is deformed, and you'd have to break your legs in SO many different places to get the costume right. This is the sort of race that in order to stick it in a movie, you'd have to use CG at least to do the legs. The proportion of their limbs are off, armor has to literally be redesigned to fit them.
.... oh, and the women don't have breasts. For an MMORPG, females not having breasts makes them about as much a human reskin as say... a mailbox. That's maybe the freakiest thing about them, by MMORPG race standards.
So, to recap, this is what a list would look like if you put people on a list of how human they are...
Humans (They win), elves/vulcans/almost all original Star Trek races/most of the SW:ToR playable races, Norn from GW2 (Human reskins), a lot of the Star Wars races like Mon Calamari, Trandoshans (Human skeleton, different facial structure... basically need a halloween mask here, maybe rubber gloves.), Ewoks (Midgets in suits work here.), Star Wars races like Yoda or the GW2 Asura (Still basic human anatomy, but disproportionate to the point where midgets don't cut it anymore.), Charr (Sorry. Even midgets don't work, and you're violating basics of human anatomy. Wrong spine, severely wrong legs.), and finally chickens. (Hey. Chickens are bipedal, have 4 limbs and a torso... if they talked, they'd basically be a human reskin, right?)
Charr are to the far right. They're still humanoid, but they can't be accurately portrayed by a human, even with prosthetic assistance.
Then you go PAST that, to things like Jabba the Hutt, or whatever...
... but being a Hutt is sadly not a playable race in SW:ToR.
(edit: PS. The feral animations in Champions Online are crap, and the way they run doesn't fit the bodies. Also, the digitigrade legs look ridiculous when animated the same basic way human legs are animated. It's pretty poorly done, and a good example of what happens when you treat making that sort of thing as just a human reskin. Looks bad!
)