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I'm disquieted about SWTOR (vs GW2)

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  • Master10KMaster10K Member Posts: 3,065

    Originally posted by Nazgol

    Originally posted by Master10K


    *snip*

    Actually answer this question for me... Why would I need to heal my teammate in GW2 when I can prevent my teammate from receiving the damage in the first place, without tanking?

    See the thing about combat in GW2 is that you don't rely on a healer because you don't need a healer and why tank when there isn't even an aggro mechanic that allows you to tank. Just watch this demonstration and if you so believe that GW2 has the traditional trinity, then tell me who's tanking, who's healing?

    The guardian is basically tanking with it's damage avoidance rune thingy.

    And yet others (ANet included) will argue that the Guardian is providing Support to its allies with it's buffs and prots. That's what I love about GW2's combat... because you cannot just define it as a simple trinity since the combat doesn't follow the standard conventions of MMO combat (i.e. no aggro generating mechanic). If it did follow the standard trinity then I wouldn't be excited to play it (look at my sig). I am sick of the waiting around involved in so many themepark MMOs, so as long as I don't have to spam "LF Tank/Healer" for an hour before I can have some fun, then I'll happy with GW2.

    image

  • NazgolNazgol Member Posts: 864

    Originally posted by Master10K

    Originally posted by Nazgol


    Originally posted by Master10K


    *snip*

    Actually answer this question for me... Why would I need to heal my teammate in GW2 when I can prevent my teammate from receiving the damage in the first place, without tanking?

    See the thing about combat in GW2 is that you don't rely on a healer because you don't need a healer and why tank when there isn't even an aggro mechanic that allows you to tank. Just watch this demonstration and if you so believe that GW2 has the traditional trinity, then tell me who's tanking, who's healing?

    The guardian is basically tanking with it's damage avoidance rune thingy.

    And yet others (ANet included) will argue that the Guardian is providing Support to its allies with it's buffs and prots. That's what I love about GW2's combat... because you cannot just define it as a simple trinity since the combat doesn't follow the standard conventions of MMO combat (i.e. no aggro generating mechanic). If it did follow the standard trinity then I wouldn't be excited to play it (look at my sig). I am sick of the waiting around involved in so many themepark MMOs, so as long as I don't have to spam "LF Tank/Healer" for an hour before I can have some fun, then I'll happy with GW2.

    So can I call a tanking companion a buff since it is supporting the group? Or a healing one for that matter?

    In Bioware we trust!

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800

    Originally posted by Nazgol

     

    The guardian is basically tanking with it's damage avoidance rune thingy. I would be worried about content if I was you. The video stated there are 6 cities in the game and 5 of them are the racial cities with one shared there better be a lot of content in between those cities because that does not seem alot.


    You do realize they are talking about major cities here, like in World of Warcraft Stormwind, Ironforge, Thunderbluff, and Undercity. They are not talking about towns, GW2 has those too....in fact you can see one of them in a video the town’s name is Bettletun.


     


    Also if I can find the interview Colin Johanson says how large the game is; now I do not remember what he said but it is somewhere in the range of 3 to 5 games. If I find the interview I will link it.


     


     


     


    Originally posted by Nazgol

     

    So can I call a tanking companion a buff since it is supporting the group? Or a healing one for that matter?


    Well that depends does your tank use an agro mechanic like a taunt? Does your healer use skills that are used directly on an ally? Because guess what GW2 does not have either of these, you cannot use any abilities directly on an ally and there is no taunts. So if you companions can do that the same as GW2 combat then go for it call your companions support.


  • Master10KMaster10K Member Posts: 3,065

    Originally posted by Nazgol

    Originally posted by Master10K


    Originally posted by Nazgol


    Originally posted by Master10K


    *snip*

    Actually answer this question for me... Why would I need to heal my teammate in GW2 when I can prevent my teammate from receiving the damage in the first place, without tanking?

    See the thing about combat in GW2 is that you don't rely on a healer because you don't need a healer and why tank when there isn't even an aggro mechanic that allows you to tank. Just watch this demonstration and if you so believe that GW2 has the traditional trinity, then tell me who's tanking, who's healing?

    The guardian is basically tanking with it's damage avoidance rune thingy.

    And yet others (ANet included) will argue that the Guardian is providing Support to its allies with it's buffs and prots. That's what I love about GW2's combat... because you cannot just define it as a simple trinity since the combat doesn't follow the standard conventions of MMO combat (i.e. no aggro generating mechanic). If it did follow the standard trinity then I wouldn't be excited to play it (look at my sig). I am sick of the waiting around involved in so many themepark MMOs, so as long as I don't have to spam "LF Tank/Healer" for an hour before I can have some fun, then I'll happy with GW2.

    So can I call a tanking companion a buff since it is supporting the group? Or a healing one for that matter?

    I don't know if it's bcause it's almost 5am but what you just said made no sense to me. I'm gonna go to sleep and come back to see if anyone else is able to make sense of this nonsense.

    image

  • romanator0romanator0 Member Posts: 2,382

    Originally posted by Nazgol

    Originally posted by nomss


    Originally posted by grimm6th


    Originally posted by Nazgol

    Doesn't really apply, the char have a lot of human characteristics, the bear has bear characteristcs, well except the ones on the toilet paper commercials those are reskiined humans.. Although if they put a bear race in GW2 I might actuallt be interested.

    http://www.guildwars2.com/global/includes/images/concept-art/guildwars2-22.jpg

    http://guildwars.incgamers.com/gallery/data/526/NornMaleBear.jpg

    http://www.guildwars2guru.com/wp-content/gallery/guild-wars-2-concept-art/nornbear.jpg

    How is it that we are talking about Charr? lol

    NM, I know. How about going back to topic, which is: I am worried about SWTOR not surviving and taking the story itself down the drain. But then again, there is nothing I can do. And well I'm not worried, just speaking my mind out. Still I believe that BW needs to do better if they are to stand a chance. Every NPC is voiced over not going to cut it. If it was this easy then many companies would be applying this feature and racking.

    http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/pax-east-2011-highlight-video

    Just look at that crowd. Did GW2 have that type of crowd? People waited up to 7 hours to demo the game and a lot of the gameplay impressions were positive.

    There was only 1 booth for TOR. 3 booths where GW2 was played. It was also available at the NCsoft meet & greet. Why don't you show me the line for TOR from Gamescon and PAX Prime last year.

    image

  • NazgolNazgol Member Posts: 864

    Originally posted by Master10K

    Originally posted by Nazgol


    Originally posted by Master10K


    Originally posted by Nazgol


    Originally posted by Master10K


    *snip*

    Actually answer this question for me... Why would I need to heal my teammate in GW2 when I can prevent my teammate from receiving the damage in the first place, without tanking?

    See the thing about combat in GW2 is that you don't rely on a healer because you don't need a healer and why tank when there isn't even an aggro mechanic that allows you to tank. Just watch this demonstration and if you so believe that GW2 has the traditional trinity, then tell me who's tanking, who's healing?

    The guardian is basically tanking with it's damage avoidance rune thingy.

    And yet others (ANet included) will argue that the Guardian is providing Support to its allies with it's buffs and prots. That's what I love about GW2's combat... because you cannot just define it as a simple trinity since the combat doesn't follow the standard conventions of MMO combat (i.e. no aggro generating mechanic). If it did follow the standard trinity then I wouldn't be excited to play it (look at my sig). I am sick of the waiting around involved in so many themepark MMOs, so as long as I don't have to spam "LF Tank/Healer" for an hour before I can have some fun, then I'll happy with GW2.

    So can I call a tanking companion a buff since it is supporting the group? Or a healing one for that matter?

    I don't know if it's bcause it's almost 5am but what you just said made no sense to me. I'm gonna go to sleep and come back to see if anyone else is able to make sense of this nonsense.

    I may not know much about GW2 but http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

    sure does look a lot like a tank to me from what I am reading and from it's skills listed.

    In Bioware we trust!

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800

    Originally posted by Nazgol

     

    I may not know much about GW2 but http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

    sure does look a lot like a tank to me from what I am reading and from it's skills listed.

     


    How is that a tank there is no taunting in this game, unless you are saying area control is the same as tanking. If that is the case then Never winter nights, Baldur’s gate, and IceWind Dale had tanking, that is news to me!


     


    Also that means the protection monk in Guild Wars was a tank since there play style has a lot in common, once you minus out the healing.

  • NazgolNazgol Member Posts: 864

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

    Originally posted by Nazgol


     

    I may not know much about GW2 but http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

    sure does look a lot like a tank to me from what I am reading and from it's skills listed.

     


    How is that a tank there is no taunting in this game, unless you are saying area control is the same as tanking. If that is the case then Never winter nights, Baldur’s gate, and IceWind Dale had tanking, that is news to me!


     


    Also that means the protection monk in Guild Wars was a tank since there play style has a lot in common, once you minus out the healing.

    It's evasion tanking.

    In Bioware we trust!

  • mmogawdmmogawd Member Posts: 732

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

    Originally posted by Nazgol


     

    I may not know much about GW2 but http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

    sure does look a lot like a tank to me from what I am reading and from it's skills listed.

     


    How is that a tank there is no taunting in this game, unless you are saying area control is the same as tanking. If that is the case then Never winter nights, Baldur’s gate, and IceWind Dale had tanking, that is news to me!


     


    Also that means the protection monk in Guild Wars was a tank since there play style has a lot in common, once you minus out the healing.

    A lack of "taunting" certainly doesn't eliminate a tank.  Im pretty damn sure there's a mechanic that says if I attack something, it's going to attack me back.  Creatures will have to decide where to direct their aggression when getting hit by two people, and by making sure they attack one person, we'll have tanking.

  • romanator0romanator0 Member Posts: 2,382

    Originally posted by Nazgol

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy


    Originally posted by Nazgol


     

    I may not know much about GW2 but http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/guardian/

    sure does look a lot like a tank to me from what I am reading and from it's skills listed.

     


    How is that a tank there is no taunting in this game, unless you are saying area control is the same as tanking. If that is the case then Never winter nights, Baldur’s gate, and IceWind Dale had tanking, that is news to me!


     


    Also that means the protection monk in Guild Wars was a tank since there play style has a lot in common, once you minus out the healing.

    It's evasion tanking.

    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=32f81552a6f3802b630ad31;3214e95301bbc92a78d6814eb&switch=2f276c5

    ^^^ This doesn't look like a tank to me.

    http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=32f81562a6f1282b630ad31;32175a434e07642a7678414eb&switch=7b284

    This is probably the closest you can get to a tank and if you try to tank with this you will end up being useless. Once you put up a dome or wall that enemies can't get past they will try to go for one of your allies, which basically means that you just did the opposite of tanking. No taunting means no tanking because taunting is a tank's primary mechanic.

    image

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    If you play the guardian like you would a tank in other games you are going to eat dirt, a lot of dirt.

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800

    Originally posted by Nazgol

     

    It's evasion tanking.


     


    Ok first off evasive or Evade means “to get around, shirk, or dodge”!  Now how is a guardian putting wards on the ground to control an area dodging? So if they are not dodging but in fact control ground to stop damage how is that evasive tanking?


     


     


     


    Originally posted by mmogawd

     

    A lack of "taunting" certainly doesn't eliminate a tank.  Im pretty damn sure there's a mechanic that says if I attack something, it's going to attack me back.  Creatures will have to decide where to direct their aggression when getting hit by two people, and by making sure they attack one person, we'll have tanking.

     


    Oh really so that makes it so GW2 has tanks and that Guardians can tank. Well let’s see what the developers the only ones playing the game have to say about the matter.


     


     




    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    To everybody who wants to use the guardian as a traditional tank: Good luck, you will spent a lot of time on the ground yelling for help.



    The profession is not designed to just stand there and take punishment, it is about battlefield awareness and control.





    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    Like we said in multiple interviews - we don't have the holy trinity, so we do not have a "designated tank". The guardian is a support profession, not a "hit me I can take it" class.


     



     

     


    So what was that about tanking again? Guild Wars 2 is about dodging and preventing damage not taking it.  Let me put this simple for you, if you do not use WSAD to dodge damage you die!

     




  • mmogawdmmogawd Member Posts: 732

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

    Originally posted by Nazgol


     

    It's evasion tanking.


     


    Ok first off evasive or Evade means “to get around, shirk, or dodge”!  Now how is a guardian putting wards on the ground to control an area dodging? So if they are not dodging but in fact control ground to stop damage how is that evasive tanking?


     


     


     


    Originally posted by mmogawd


     

    A lack of "taunting" certainly doesn't eliminate a tank.  Im pretty damn sure there's a mechanic that says if I attack something, it's going to attack me back.  Creatures will have to decide where to direct their aggression when getting hit by two people, and by making sure they attack one person, we'll have tanking.

     


    Oh really so that makes it so GW2 has tanks and that Guardians can tank. Well let’s see what the developers the only ones playing the game have to say about the matter.


     


     




    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    To everybody who wants to use the guardian as a traditional tank: Good luck, you will spent a lot of time on the ground yelling for help.



    The profession is not designed to just stand there and take punishment, it is about battlefield awareness and control.





    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    Like we said in multiple interviews - we don't have the holy trinity, so we do not have a "designated tank". The guardian is a support profession, not a "hit me I can take it" class.


     



     

     


    So what was that about tanking again? Guild Wars 2 is about dodging and preventing damage not taking it.  Let me put this simple for you, if you do not use WSAD to dodge damage you die!

     




    Right, so I get the attention of all of the mobs, then I use WSAD to dodge damage while everyone DPS's and some loser heals me.  So they're right, it's not a "traditional tank", but it's stil a tank.

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Originally posted by mmogawd

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy


    Originally posted by Nazgol


     

    It's evasion tanking.


     


    Ok first off evasive or Evade means “to get around, shirk, or dodge”!  Now how is a guardian putting wards on the ground to control an area dodging? So if they are not dodging but in fact control ground to stop damage how is that evasive tanking?


     


     


     


    Originally posted by mmogawd


     

    A lack of "taunting" certainly doesn't eliminate a tank.  Im pretty damn sure there's a mechanic that says if I attack something, it's going to attack me back.  Creatures will have to decide where to direct their aggression when getting hit by two people, and by making sure they attack one person, we'll have tanking.

     


    Oh really so that makes it so GW2 has tanks and that Guardians can tank. Well let’s see what the developers the only ones playing the game have to say about the matter.


     


     




    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    To everybody who wants to use the guardian as a traditional tank: Good luck, you will spent a lot of time on the ground yelling for help.



    The profession is not designed to just stand there and take punishment, it is about battlefield awareness and control.





    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    Like we said in multiple interviews - we don't have the holy trinity, so we do not have a "designated tank". The guardian is a support profession, not a "hit me I can take it" class.


     



     

     


    So what was that about tanking again? Guild Wars 2 is about dodging and preventing damage not taking it.  Let me put this simple for you, if you do not use WSAD to dodge damage you die!

     




    Right, so I get the attention of all of the mobs, then I use WSAD to dodge damage while everyone DPS's and some loser heals me.  So they're right, it's not a "traditional tank", but it's stil a tank.

    Mhenlo makes a good tank in GW then.

  • romanator0romanator0 Member Posts: 2,382

    Originally posted by mmogawd

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy


    Originally posted by Nazgol


     

    It's evasion tanking.


     


    Ok first off evasive or Evade means “to get around, shirk, or dodge”!  Now how is a guardian putting wards on the ground to control an area dodging? So if they are not dodging but in fact control ground to stop damage how is that evasive tanking?


     


     


     


    Originally posted by mmogawd


     

    A lack of "taunting" certainly doesn't eliminate a tank.  Im pretty damn sure there's a mechanic that says if I attack something, it's going to attack me back.  Creatures will have to decide where to direct their aggression when getting hit by two people, and by making sure they attack one person, we'll have tanking.

     


    Oh really so that makes it so GW2 has tanks and that Guardians can tank. Well let’s see what the developers the only ones playing the game have to say about the matter.


     


     




    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    To everybody who wants to use the guardian as a traditional tank: Good luck, you will spent a lot of time on the ground yelling for help.



    The profession is not designed to just stand there and take punishment, it is about battlefield awareness and control.





    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein View Post


    Like we said in multiple interviews - we don't have the holy trinity, so we do not have a "designated tank". The guardian is a support profession, not a "hit me I can take it" class.


     



     

     


    So what was that about tanking again? Guild Wars 2 is about dodging and preventing damage not taking it.  Let me put this simple for you, if you do not use WSAD to dodge damage you die!

     




    Right, so I get the attention of all of the mobs, then I use WSAD to dodge damage while everyone DPS's and some loser heals me.  So they're right, it's not a "traditional tank", but it's stil a tank.

    Actually no. Once you start dodging around then the mobs will ignore you and go for the people attacking them. There also won't be some loser healing you.

    image

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800

    Originally posted by mmogawd





     




    Right, so I get the attention of all of the mobs, then I use WSAD to dodge damage while everyone DPS's and some loser heals me.  So they're right, it's not a "traditional tank", but it's stil a tank.

     


    Good luck on that some loser heals me thing, since there is no ally targeted skills in Guild Wars 2. I think you are going to die a lot if you go into Guild Wars 2 with that mindset, of heal heal me I am a human pin cushion.

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    So I gather from some opinions here, anyone who has the attention of an enemy is a tank.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy




    Good luck on that some loser heals me thing, since there is no ally targeted skills in Guild Wars 2.

    I'm really looking forward to that  

     

    in GW2,  there are no direct ally heals

  • RagnavenRagnaven Member Posts: 483

    SWToR has rewards of information as well as stat increases for exploring the world, branching paths in instances that build off your choices and change the bosses you fight.

  • romanator0romanator0 Member Posts: 2,382

    Originally posted by Ragnaven

    SWToR has rewards of information as well as stat increases for exploring the world, branching paths in instances that build off your choices and change the bosses you fight.

    Don't know about exploration in GW2 but each dungeon has a story mode and several different explorable modes.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeons

    image

  • UnlightUnlight Member Posts: 2,540

    Lawdy, the misinformation in this thread is staggering.

    In GW1, there were several factors that determined who a mob went after.  The toon that's dealing damage to them is one factor.  Another is distance.  Can they reach them?  Rangers were often ignored because they were too far away to bother with.  Another criteria was threat level.  Mobs would preferentially go after Monks because they are a high value target.  What they wouldn't do is sit there pounding on the highest armor value, highest health toon, just because he was hitting them and was conveniently close. 

    To make it clear, there was no way to force mobs to focus on one toon over another.  The AI coding was far more intricate than the WoW-type examples people are spewing out.  There were no tanks.  No Tanks.  At best, you would have your highest health and defense toon absorb the brunt of the opening damage before everything went to hell.  Success was measured in your ability to control the chaos that ensued after combat started, and your "tank" was quickly relegated to either helping to control runaway mobs heading for your backline (some *always* would) or harrying the enemy's backline by interrupting heals, rezzes (yes, some mobs could rez their buddies) and nukes.

    ArenaNet gives every indication that they will be using a similar, and likely enhanced, mechanic in GW2.  That means no tanks.  Once more for good measure?  No tanks.  It doesn't matter how much armor and health you have, if the mobs aren't focused on you, you aren't tanking.  Hell, by the logic being used in this discussion, my Mesmer was the group tank just as often as the Warrior, and the Monk, the HEALER, was the tank more often than everyone else.

     

    If I speak at one constant volume at one constant pitch at one constant rhythm right into your ear you still won't hear.

    - Faith No More

  • AKASlaphappyAKASlaphappy Member UncommonPosts: 800

    Originally posted by romanator0

    Originally posted by Ragnaven

    SWToR has rewards of information as well as stat increases for exploring the world, branching paths in instances that build off your choices and change the bosses you fight.

    Don't know about exploration in GW2 but each dungeon has a story mode and several different explorable modes.

    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeons

     


    GW2 is rewarding explorers too; here is part of an interview with a developer talking about it.


     


     



    Will there be any special rewards for exploring? Like finding a secret mob to fight, a hidden cave, or maybe just an item lying around between some rocks?


    Colin: Yeah, definitely. There's a lot of different layers to how we reward explorers in our game. I would argue that Guild Wars 2 is the most explore-friendly game anyone has ever made. The reason for that is because our dynamic event system makes it so that every time you go into a map there could be something completely different going on. For instance, you go out and you explore everything that's in that map and you could come back and explore it again, you'll find something completely unique and different than the last time. It's kind of an explorer's dream because you can always keep exploring and finding new things. We try to hide a lot of events tucked in little areas of the map - we're going to have a lot of content hidden away in areas. You could jump up the side of a waterfall and go through the back of the waterfall and you might find something there that no other player has seen in two months of the game being out. And going in there, you might discover something that makes a dynamic event kick off and that moves off and starts to affect the world. We really want to make this a game for every type of player and we want to make it really rewarding for explorers. One of the things that we're also going to do is that after the game releases, we're going to put a lot more dynamic events in the game as live updates and free stuff to expand the maps and have more and more in there so that the explorers can keep going back to these maps and discover things that we've added and didn't tell anyone about and they're going to stumble across them.


  • yogiftwyogiftw Member Posts: 28

    lol i am amazed on how many people just saying things that they heard on forums and thought it was true about these 2 games..knowing how the gameplay is in a certain game isnt determined until you actually play the game..watching videos or hearing stuff about the game is very untrue in most occasions... just saying dont believe everything that goes in this thread..... most of it is misleading due to fanboys of the two games.... to really know about the game you want to play... you have to do your own research or just wait until it comes out and play it and find out yourself... i personally going to play GW2 since it doesnt have a monthly fee...as for star wars just not that into sci fi mmorpg.

  • GwydienGwydien Member Posts: 15

    I think GW2 looks really good, but was also pretty psyched for SWOTR, but when I saw SWOTR's gameplay I just groaned. Sure KOTOR was amazing but I really think that sort of combat worked a lot better for a singleplayer game. GW2 is innovation, SWTOR is nostalgia. That said I will definitely play both.

  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230

    Some people try to needlessly fit everything into the trinity mold and sometimes it is quite a stretch. I'm glad no one didn't bring up the absurd example of modern battle tank having a "MMO tank role" although I didn't read every post in this thread.

    As many have already suggested, there wont be traditional trinity in GW2.

    Good luck being a tank when there's no ways to directly manipulate mob AI to attack you.

    Good luck being a healer when the best you can have is TWO healing skills in your skill bar (water elementalist). What are you going to do? -Ignore the 8 other skills so that you fill your healer role? Furthermore Anet has suggested that healing is less cost efficient than preventing damage e.g. dodging.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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