Some people try to needlessly fit everything into the trinity mold and sometimes it is quite a stretch. I'm glad no one didn't bring up the absurd example of modern battle tank having a "MMO tank role" although I didn't read every post in this thread.
My favorite example EVER of somebody explaining how the trinities in MMORPGs accurately reflecting RL, because modern military has an MMO...
Tanks = tanks, jets = DPS, combat medic = healer.
Some people will try and cram ANYTHING into the standard trinity roles.
(Though I have to admit, I realized they had a point when I watched some footage of a modern military engagement, and saw that jets were strafing a tank while a combat medic kept slapping bandaids on the back of it.)
Both games look great no doubt about it. Its just that GW2 is fantasy in the Guild wars universe which means absolutely nuffin to me. And the other one is friggin starwars lol
I just cant make myself play another same ol' fantasy, sad to say. And with the list of cool featues for both games it comes down to IP/setting. Simple as that.
One could play both ofc since only one requires a sub, but I just dont have time for that personally.
You can juggle features back and forth to try and justify your choice of game as much as you want, but when it comes down to it whatever game ppl decide to play I'm quite sure they'll think they made the right choice and be happy with that game coz they both seem to rock more or less lol.
I posted this in SWTOR forums. Thought I'd post here too.
I feel everything SWTOR is doing, GW2 is doing it better.
SWTOR - 50 novels worth of Voice Overs. GW2 - 60 films worth voice over.
SWTORs dialogue and voiceovers will be much bigger than anything GW2 could produce - ever. 60 films worth of voiceover? 50 Novels? Those are terrible ways to try to categorize it. Simply put, BioWare will always put more dedication and effort into their voiceover and story work. GW2 won't stand a chance.
SWTOR - Heavily story focused with choices. GW2 - Heavily story focused with choices.
GW2 is story focused with FEW choices. SWTOR will have choices in every facet of the game. In GW2 you have ten questions at the beginning and just a "few" choices that will effect the outcome of your story. Not just that, all group quests have story choices that will change what happens in your multiplayer quests, including different bosses you face, different objectives, and different rewards. GW2 doesn't have that at all.
SWTOR - Triniy. GW2 - No Trinity
SWTOR: Trinity with companions system and multiclass hybridization. GW2, No Trinity. Doesn't mean that the system will be better without the "trinity".
While GW2s "open world" will be filled with "dynamic events" which will drive the gameplay, thats not to say SWTOR won't still feel like a live, action packed world.
SWTOR - PVP. GW2 - WvWvW (sounds better).
SWTOR has open world PvP, instanced PvP, PvP SERVERS and DUELING. GW2 has PvP in the MISTS ONLY, with their arena PvP.
SWTOR has a number of different kinds of quests, all of which have dynamic choice options which will effect the outcome. While they aren't going to be "dynamic" in the same sense, as in SWTOR the dynamic portion of it depends on the choices you make.
SWTOR - Mini games? GW2 - Many mini games.
Space flight is currently a type of mini game. I would stand to bet we'll see Pazaak and pod racing before the game launches.
SWTOR - P2P (Most likely). GW2 - B2P.
Can't argue there, but SWTOR will have months and months and MONTHS worth of content on launch. GW2?
SWTOR - Other language translation. GW2 - Other language translation.
Feel free to add stuff that GW2 does not have and SWTOR does
Feel free to add stuff that SWTOR does not have and GW2 does Did not put this line in other post, you know the reasons.
SWTOR: Player Housing and travel with your ship, customization to your ship both the interior and exterior.
SWTOR: Crafting using a very comprehensive companion system, being able to create special items that no one else on the server can create and having the capability for your crafting to crit resulting in better items. You can send you companions out to gather, or gather yourself as you progress throughout the world.
GW2: Standard crafting system and phasing used for gathering.
SWTOR: Mounts, taxi system, and ferry system with the ability to set bindstones.
GW2: Instant fast travel after you've been to the location.
More?
How do you know there are fewer story choices to be made in GW2 masked weasel because they seem to be touting their story choices more than quite a bit for me to think there would be few.
The math is easy enough. GW2 is quite simply a much smaller game content wise. I'm not sure if you've played a BioWare game before but they are very large games in the realm of content. It's been stated repeatedly that at launch TOR will hvae more content then all of their previous titles combined. This is a massive bohemeth. By simple deduction there will be far more choices in SW:TOR. We're talking about the diference between a blue whale and a sardine.
ohh yeah that super long game of mass effect 2 or dragon age two , Don't gt me wrong I love Bioware and will end up playing both games...but please in the last few years bioware has dropped the ball on what they used to be (sure this could be because of the focus on SWTOR)
I still play Guild Wars 1 and have for some time..those who feel that SWTOR will have MONTH AND MONTHS of content at launch...I dont understand. I am in college with a pretty laid back school/job week. I find that MMOs never take me a month to hit max level.
My issue is that raiding is old dudes, I dont want a gear grind, I dont want gear stats to determine if a worse player can beat me (at max level of course).. I want a break from paying to play these games where it seems Devs are so far away from the players that i am paying to be part of a test group and i am not allowed to ask questions. I want to have my social life and not set up a raid time and feel like i am bailing on my guild when i don't show up,
Gw2 is taking a step back and looking at why people love games and carter to those who are like me...not those 12 year olds who get home from middle school and load up their hunters in WoW and play for 9 hours a day...B2P is selling me hard (just as it did on Guild Wars 1) because it makes the comapny to work on the content that I (not if i don't want to) buy. becuase if i loose intrest then they loose another box sale. Instead of being able to promise a patch or content update and just tell me it is getting pushed back.
... seriously. Have you LOOKED at a Charr's legs? That one feature alone makes it pretty impossible for a fan to pull off a halfway reputable looking Charr.
Doesn't seem to be a problem for narnia fans.
As for the trinity, don't kid yourself people, in spite of people not wanting trinity combat, other trinities will form and soon, LF Healer is going to change into LF Guardian with X ability, or LF Elementalist with Y ability.
You see it in games like DCUO and Global Agenda all the time.
So many people are stating how everything is so great and gamechanging with GW2s change of the trinity, but you'll see soon enough... the more things change, the more they stay the same.
... no offense, and I hope that guy NEVER sees this, but that looked like crap. :<
It was... about as good as you can get, they have weird crazy shoes that let you vaguely mimic digitigrade legs, but it's still not right. The legs just aren't bent at the right angle and the proportions are off.
Anyway, you can put people in suits that vaguely make them look like a horse (The classic two person Halloween outfit), but that doesn't mean that horses are human reskins. :T
The moment you have to start adding freaky prosthetics to try and (unsuccessfully) mimic a different bone structure, you've pretty much gone way past human reskin.
... no offense, and I hope that guy NEVER sees this, but that looked like crap. :<
It was... about as good as you can get, they have weird crazy shoes that let you vaguely mimic digitigrade legs, but it's still not right. The legs just aren't bent at the right angle.
Anyway, you can put people in suits that vaguely make them look like a horse (The classic two person Halloween outfit), but that doesn't mean that horses are human reskins. :T
The moment you have to start adding freaky prosthetics to try and (unsuccessfully) mimic a different bone structure, you've pretty much gone way past human reskin.
Can't you just give this up? :T
Humanoid yes, human reskin, no.
I really don't care that much either way, quite literally you could make a charr character pretty similarly in Champions online using a mostly human model, its not like they had to go very far for the changes. Ultimately the races in GW2 mean very little and have no impact as there really aren't factions, alignments or class restrictions which pretty much makes it pointless. At best we'll be lucky to see some story choices that somewhat mimic the race you chose, but I'm not holding my breath much on that one.
what is this post about? GW fanbois rampaging about 2 unreleased games?
how'd you get your facts in the first place, jesus fookin christ...
how about you pla a game before you judge it? just a thought ^^
anyway, hype on guys!
uh and @ threadstarter, you actually dare to claim that GW has more storycontent from films and co than star wars has? cute start, really made me laugh thx 4 that
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I really don't care that much either way, quite literally you could make a charr character pretty similarly in Champions online using a mostly human model, its not like they had to go very far for the changes. Ultimately the races in GW2 mean very little and have no impact as there really aren't factions, alignments or class restrictions which pretty much makes it pointless. At best we'll be lucky to see some story choices that somewhat mimic the race you chose, but I'm not holding my breath much on that one.
... it would look pretty bad in Champions Online. Not to mention the legs are animated wrong, and you couldn't get the spinal deformation or the way it curves into the head. Which is also animated differently, because it's not just a reskin, no matter how many times you say it is, or say you don't care (While simultaneously trying to prove it is)
... the badness in CO is what happens when you treat that sort of thing like a human reskin and slap in a couple different polygon models, it's just shoddy. No, the feral walk thing doesn't help. Legs are still bad, and the feral stance doesn't look good with ANYTHING I've seen. :T
So far as GW2 goes, there appear to be quite a few story choices based specifically off of the race... definitely in the beginning, since all 5 races have seperate branching storylines at least up until the point where they meet in the 6th major city.
How much story, we don't really know, so you can just speculate it's very little, and I can hope it's a lot, and neither of us will know until the game comes out, really. It helps if you realize that GW2 is splitting the personal story based off of race and some biography choices, rather than class like SW:ToR is doing. Does SW:ToR have more personal story? Absolutely. I can't deny that. Plus, there's mroe classes in SW:ToR than GW2 has races, so there's probably going to be more possible stories. Still, that means what GW2 IS focusing on for seperation is the whole race thing, rather than anything else.
... but I don't go supporting GW2 by mindlessly bashing SW:ToR and guessing the worst when what's shown so far shows differently, so why do the opposite? Because some other people do? Are you going to model your behavior off of the worst anti-SW:ToR pro-GW2 fans? Really? Take the high road man! Talk positive about the features you're familiar with for the game you like, and don't go talking about the dearth of options in a game you apparently don't know nearly as much about.
(edit: As you can see, I'm willing to admit that SW:ToR will have what is known in technical terms as 'two metric craploads worth of story'. Even a cursory bit of examination into the GW2 personal story will show that all the races have totally seperate story based off of racial lore in the beginning. Even the types of choices you have are different. So don't see why you have to downplay that.)
what is this post about? GW fanbois rampaging about 2 unreleased games?
how'd you get your facts in the first place, jesus fookin christ...
how about you pla a game before you judge it? just a thought ^^
uh and @ threadstarter, you actually dare to claim that GW has more storycontent from films and co than star wars has? cute start, really made me laugh thx 4 that
To be honest, I hate this thread, because it needlessly pits SW:ToR fans against GW2 fans. Yet again. There's some overlap between the two groups, and there doesn't really HAVE to be a fight. It's pretty silly. If you notice, I'm not in this thread to bash SW:ToR, I'm just here to try and clear up misinformation about GW2 (Specifically, just what is involved in being a human reskin. I still think there's a sliding scale of how human something can be, and a human reskin is pretty close to human, while changing skeletal anatomy that much is a pretty big change, but whatever. If I put a sweater on a cat and teach it to walk on hind legs, that doesn't make it a human reskin, that just makes me a crazy cat lady.)
There's obviously things SW:ToR is going to do better than GW2, though I also think there's things GW2 will do better than SW:ToR (Your mileage may vary here, of course. :P )
... and really, both games could suck, worst case scenario. That would be pretty horrible for the MMO industry, but hey, we won't know until the games come out and are around for a few months. I'm personally hoping both deliver on everything they say, and both do well.
... and so far as the first line, he was talking about amount of voice acting. SW:ToR says it has '50 books worth of voice', and GW2 says it has '60 movies worth'.
... I wish they'd use the same measurement, so it was easier to compare. You know, something like 'X amount of hours of voice'.
... because how MUCH voice does a movie have, exactly? How much talking goes on a book, exactly? Is that all the dialogue from a book, or a book that is front cover to back cover, dialogue?
Both are imprecise and sound more like company blurbs than meaningful information. Boo hiss. Thumbs down for both companies for not giving a more useful metric.
As for the trinity, don't kid yourself people, in spite of people not wanting trinity combat, other trinities will form and soon, LF Healer is going to change into LF Guardian with X ability, or LF Elementalist with Y ability.
You see it in games like DCUO and Global Agenda all the time.
So many people are stating how everything is so great and gamechanging with GW2s change of the trinity, but you'll see soon enough... the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Can't deny that some people won't be able to see past the tank/heal/dps mantra but you also can't deny that there is a lot of freedom to go beyond that and do something totally different especially in GW2. The fact that players now have the option call upon 3 different professions to help in the support category is still a win on Anet's part because there's less of emphasis on one profession and that's what they were aiming for. In both DCUO and GA you cannot do without a healer but you can do without a tank, finished many Alerts with just controllers in DCUO.
Why not go to the GW2 page and say why you think it will be a better game, rather than go to the SWTOR page and say why it will be a worse game in comparison. You knew, or at least thought, that by focusing on the negative instead of the posivite, you would get a more powerfull negative responce and more or less flaming. I can say the OP more or less succeded after seeing the stupid stuff some people are arguing about.
... and so far as the first line, he was talking about amount of voice acting. SW:ToR says it has '50 books worth of voice', and GW2 says it has '60 movies worth'.
... I wish they'd use the same measurement, so it was easier to compare. You know, something like 'X amount of hours of voice'.
... because how MUCH voice does a movie have, exactly? How much talking goes on a book, exactly? Is that all the dialogue from a book, or a book that is front cover to back cover, dialogue?
Both are imprecise and sound more like company blurbs than meaningful information. Boo hiss. Thumbs down for both companies for not giving a more useful metric.
I usually just read it like this; 50 scripts worth of voice work? 60 scripts worth of voicework? But that just makes GW2's dialogue seem larger.... and that might be the case since they have a lot of environmental voicework going on....,hm.
You are still arguing semantics, when you did the exact same thing; you gave an opinion and that opinion has as many facts backing it as anyone else’s that is following the games.
For example, I could look at all of the press releases that ANet has made about the game. Then I could say Guild Wars 2 is the most innovative MMO being designed in the last 10 years. Now when I say this it is just my opinion based on the facts I have looked at. It might be right or wrong but in the end it is still my opinion. Now if you notice I did not say “I think” or” it seems”, I said “it is” which does not disqualify it from being still just my opinion based on facts that I looked at. And you can look at it and go but you do not have enough evidence to say that! Well guess what it is still just my opinion, I am not standing before a grand jury and giving sworn testimony here, I am giving my opinion on a forum.
Hence why I said the post was hypocrisy, I do not need you, neither does anyone else, to tell them they do not have enough facts to forum that opinion. If I am wrong; I can learn that from evidence, I do not need you to make an opinion, and then say your opinion is wrong because you didn’t say I think or it seems. Especially when your opinion has as much truth in it as mine, since neither game is released.
It doesn't disqualify your opinion. It just makes your opinion horribly informed.
I don't care at all whether or not you need me to point that out. It's my opinion that your opinion is horribly informed. It's a forum. I'm free to post that opinion.
Your opinion talks about GW2. GW2 is not released yet so you can't have a fully informed opinion about it.
My opinion talks about myself and my feelings. I have been released so I can have a fully informed opinion about myself.
Semantics do matter. They're the only way to point out subtle diffirences and those diffirences matter. If you don't think semantics matter then that's your choice, don't call me a hypocrite because you're incapable of grasping those diffirences though.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I usually just read it like this; 50 scripts worth of voice work? 60 scripts worth of voicework? But that just makes GW2's dialogue seem larger.... and that might be the case since they have a lot of environmental voicework going on....,hm.
Shhhh! Don't open THAT can of worms. To be honest, it's impossible to compare since they won't just come out with an hours of voice work number. :P I know GW2 heavily emphasizes background dialogue... NPCs standing around talking, and they deliver all the dynamic events that way... but SW:ToR DOES definitely have more personal story than GW2 (By a pretty hefty amount), so it seems they could easily make up for that even if they have little or even no environmental chatter. (Something I'm unsure on, so don't go punching me SW:ToR fans for saying it doesn't have environmental chatter, I said IF. I don't know, either way.)
Originally posted by maskedweasel Ultimately the races in GW2 mean very little and have no impact as there really aren't factions, alignments or class restrictions which pretty much makes it pointless. At best we'll be lucky to see some story choices that somewhat mimic the race you chose, but I'm not holding my breath much on that one.
Semantics do matter. They're the only way to point out subtle diffirences and those diffirences matter. If you don't think semantics matter then that's your choice, don't call me a hypocrite because you're incapable of grasping those diffirences though.
Oh, c'mon, can we all just agree that everybody's posts (Who doesn't have it already) on this subject should probably be appended with a big fat 'If everything worked out right with these two unreleased games, this is the way it will be....'
Which brings up the question 'How can people have conflicting opinions if it's everything working out right?'...
... the answer to which is 'Because for some people, everything working out right is 'GW2 succeeds and SW:ToR is a big pile of fail', and for other people, everything working out right is 'SW:ToR does great, and GW2 implodes and never comes back'.
I just hope they both do well, and remain cautiously optimistic.
Yeah, people are horrible imprecise with their language... throughout all of MMORPG.com, not just this thread, so you should probably just give up and feel a smug secret sense of satisfaction that you're more precies.
I usually just read it like this; 50 scripts worth of voice work? 60 scripts worth of voicework? But that just makes GW2's dialogue seem larger.... and that might be the case since they have a lot of environmental voicework going on....,hm.
Shhhh! Don't open THAT can of worms. To be honest, it's impossible to compare since they won't just come out with an hours of voice work number. :P I know GW2 heavily emphasizes background dialogue... NPCs standing around talking, and they deliver all the dynamic events that way... but SW:ToR DOES definitely have more personal story than GW2 (By a pretty hefty amount), so it seems they could easily make up for that even if they have little or even no environmental chatter. (Something I'm unsure on, so don't go punching me SW:ToR fans for saying it doesn't have environmental chatter, I said IF. I don't know, either way.)
Lol, I've actually gone ahead and tried to calculate it heh but too many factors derived from the "50 books worth of dialogue" statement just makes it hard to calculate without being completely off. Even then though, 50 books is definitely more than 60 feature films ... depending on how long the books are heh.
I usually just read it like this; 50 scripts worth of voice work? 60 scripts worth of voicework? But that just makes GW2's dialogue seem larger.... and that might be the case since they have a lot of environmental voicework going on....,hm.
Shhhh! Don't open THAT can of worms. To be honest, it's impossible to compare since they won't just come out with an hours of voice work number. :P I know GW2 heavily emphasizes background dialogue... NPCs standing around talking, and they deliver all the dynamic events that way... but SW:ToR DOES definitely have more personal story than GW2 (By a pretty hefty amount), so it seems they could easily make up for that even if they have little or even no environmental chatter. (Something I'm unsure on, so don't go punching me SW:ToR fans for saying it doesn't have environmental chatter, I said IF. I don't know, either way.)
Yeah, both will have plenty of voice over work. That's all fine and dandy and the exact amounts shouldn't be a reason to prefer one over the other. It will be probably like you say: Swtor having more VO invested in personal story, GW2 putting a lot of their voice overs into dynamic events like npc's yelling "Omigod, plx help, hero. Teh litening struck teh iron bran agian! Wat do now?!!"
In my mind GW2's dynamic events and Swtors deep stories (+ alignment system and different paths) are both very good things and they aren't differences which lead me to pick Swtor over GW2.
I'm much more concerned with GW2's 1 faction system / no pvp in the open world, player tension avoidance philosophy and teleporting everywhere. In that sense Swtor is an easy pick for me. I suspect it will feel like a much more free, open and 'realistic' game world(s), despite GW2's DE's. Which is the maybe the most important thing in a mmorpg for me; the way a world immerses you and feels natural rather than a packed themepark.
I agree that GW2's races look much better though: character art in general is still my main gripe with Swtor but it isn't a gamebreaking aspect.
I hope with you that both games will be successful and it would be a huge shame if both will disappoint.
Normally I get hugely annoyed at the GW2 fanboys but I have to say for the last few pages they've mostly been either absent or surprisingly reasonable.
SWToR fanboys:
I like SWToR. I'm not sure I like GW2, the jury's still out on that one but it's sceptical. If I had to pick, not sure why I should though, I'd pick SWToR without a second doubt.
That being said, all information we have had so far points that SWToR does have the traditional trinity in every way and form. It's got a few twists like ranged tanking and the cover system but let's be honest with each other. There's nothing at all from Bioware indicating that they're making anything other then a mostly traditional MMO in a Star Wars setting with an amazing storyline and an extremely extensive companion system. And I'm completely fine with that. In fact I'm quite happy with it. The traditional trinity may be overdone but it does work. I don't think there's more then 0,1% of all MMORPGers that at no point whatsoever have enjoyed playing a trinity game. And I feel confident that the twists with the sci-fi setting, ranged tanking, cover system etc. along with a Bioware storyline and companions will be, for me, more then enough to set SWToR apart from any other traditional trinity MMO. But I do hope we can be honest and just admit that SWToR's class system isn't looking to be in any way revolutionary. It's looking to be evolutionary at most.
Next to that all playable SWToR races will be reskinned humans as far as we know. All GW2 races clearly are not. Bioware themselves stated that, for the romance part, they would only create playable races that people could easily identify with and could be seen making out. Personally, I've yet to wake up from a wet dream about making out with a Charr. I think I can safely say that the majority of humanity is with me on this point.
{mod edit}
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I'm much more concerned with GW2's 1 faction system / no pvp in the open world, player tension avoidance philosophy and teleporting everywhere. In that sense Swtor is an easy pick for me. I suspect it will feel like a much more free, open and 'realistic' game world(s), despite GW2's DE's. Which is the maybe the most important thing in a mmorpg for me; the way a world immerses you and feels natural rather than a packed themepark.
You have a perfectly valid reason to prefer SW:ToR over GW2, due to your gaming preferences, and I can't argue with it based off of you being misinformed or anything. If anything, you have that opinion BECAUSE you're informed. Good thing I'm not emotionally invested in every MMO player loving GW2.
I hope you do get it (Hey, B2P makes it tempting!), and play WvW, because I would totally love to kill... uh, I mean, team up with you! We can go set people on fire together.
Originally posted by gobla
Sigh.....
Normally I get hugely annoyed at the GW2 fanboys but I have to see for the last few pages they've mostly been either absent or surprisingly reasonable.
Surprisingly Reasonable GW2 Fanboy is my middle NAME.
Which is the main reason I am all for anonymity in MMORPGs, really. What were my parents thinking? (Do I get bonus points for referencing another thread?)
Yeah, people are horrible imprecise with their language... throughout all of MMORPG.com, not just this thread, so you should probably just give up and feel a smug secret sense of satisfaction that you're more precies.
Meh, I value precision. I've go not illusions about whether or not anybody really cares about that at all but that doesn't stop me from wasting a few minutes a day on it.
See it as my sneaky form of forum PvP. Just like the traders in EvE are sneakily doing market PvP.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Which is the main reason I am all for anonymity in MMORPGs, really. What were my parents thinking? (Do I get bonus points for referencing another thread?)
Wait....
So your surname is "StupidMiddleName"... doesn't that get confusing?
I guess your parents wanted to stick it to the bureaucracy?
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
Yeah, people are horrible imprecise with their language... throughout all of MMORPG.com, not just this thread, so you should probably just give up and feel a smug secret sense of satisfaction that you're more precies.
Meh, I value precision. I've go not illusions about whether or not anybody really cares about that at all but that doesn't stop me from wasting a few minutes a day on it.
See it as my sneaky form of forum PvP. Just like the traders in EvE are sneakily doing market PvP.
I just realized I misspelled precise. Oh, the tragic irony.
... anyway, I value precision too, but at least when it comes to opinions, I just automatically append 'In my opinion' to every third sentence I read here on mmorpg.com. In my opinion.
Originally posted by gobla
Wait....
So your surname is "StupidMiddleName"... doesn't that get confusing?
I guess your parents wanted to stick it to the bureaucracy?
Since I'm Japanese, that's actually my first name. Not that it makes it any better, I guess.
(Not actually Japanese, but why should I start telling the truth at this point in time, really? Though I was in Japan for about 8 months, and surely that counts for SOMETHING.)
Comments
My favorite example EVER of somebody explaining how the trinities in MMORPGs accurately reflecting RL, because modern military has an MMO...
Tanks = tanks, jets = DPS, combat medic = healer.
Some people will try and cram ANYTHING into the standard trinity roles.
(Though I have to admit, I realized they had a point when I watched some footage of a modern military engagement, and saw that jets were strafing a tank while a combat medic kept slapping bandaids on the back of it.)
Both games look great no doubt about it. Its just that GW2 is fantasy in the Guild wars universe which means absolutely nuffin to me. And the other one is friggin starwars lol
I just cant make myself play another same ol' fantasy, sad to say. And with the list of cool featues for both games it comes down to IP/setting. Simple as that.
One could play both ofc since only one requires a sub, but I just dont have time for that personally.
You can juggle features back and forth to try and justify your choice of game as much as you want, but when it comes down to it whatever game ppl decide to play I'm quite sure they'll think they made the right choice and be happy with that game coz they both seem to rock more or less lol.
ohh yeah that super long game of mass effect 2 or dragon age two , Don't gt me wrong I love Bioware and will end up playing both games...but please in the last few years bioware has dropped the ball on what they used to be (sure this could be because of the focus on SWTOR)
I still play Guild Wars 1 and have for some time..those who feel that SWTOR will have MONTH AND MONTHS of content at launch...I dont understand. I am in college with a pretty laid back school/job week. I find that MMOs never take me a month to hit max level.
My issue is that raiding is old dudes, I dont want a gear grind, I dont want gear stats to determine if a worse player can beat me (at max level of course).. I want a break from paying to play these games where it seems Devs are so far away from the players that i am paying to be part of a test group and i am not allowed to ask questions. I want to have my social life and not set up a raid time and feel like i am bailing on my guild when i don't show up,
Gw2 is taking a step back and looking at why people love games and carter to those who are like me...not those 12 year olds who get home from middle school and load up their hunters in WoW and play for 9 hours a day...B2P is selling me hard (just as it did on Guild Wars 1) because it makes the comapny to work on the content that I (not if i don't want to) buy. becuase if i loose intrest then they loose another box sale. Instead of being able to promise a patch or content update and just tell me it is getting pushed back.
Doesn't seem to be a problem for narnia fans.
As for the trinity, don't kid yourself people, in spite of people not wanting trinity combat, other trinities will form and soon, LF Healer is going to change into LF Guardian with X ability, or LF Elementalist with Y ability.
You see it in games like DCUO and Global Agenda all the time.
So many people are stating how everything is so great and gamechanging with GW2s change of the trinity, but you'll see soon enough... the more things change, the more they stay the same.
... no offense, and I hope that guy NEVER sees this, but that looked like crap. :<
It was... about as good as you can get, they have weird crazy shoes that let you vaguely mimic digitigrade legs, but it's still not right. The legs just aren't bent at the right angle and the proportions are off.
Anyway, you can put people in suits that vaguely make them look like a horse (The classic two person Halloween outfit), but that doesn't mean that horses are human reskins. :T
The moment you have to start adding freaky prosthetics to try and (unsuccessfully) mimic a different bone structure, you've pretty much gone way past human reskin.
Can't you just give this up? :T
Humanoid yes, human reskin, no.
I really don't care that much either way, quite literally you could make a charr character pretty similarly in Champions online using a mostly human model, its not like they had to go very far for the changes. Ultimately the races in GW2 mean very little and have no impact as there really aren't factions, alignments or class restrictions which pretty much makes it pointless. At best we'll be lucky to see some story choices that somewhat mimic the race you chose, but I'm not holding my breath much on that one.
what is this post about? GW fanbois rampaging about 2 unreleased games?
how'd you get your facts in the first place, jesus fookin christ...
how about you pla a game before you judge it? just a thought ^^
anyway, hype on guys!
uh and @ threadstarter, you actually dare to claim that GW has more storycontent from films and co than star wars has? cute start, really made me laugh thx 4 that
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
... it would look pretty bad in Champions Online. Not to mention the legs are animated wrong, and you couldn't get the spinal deformation or the way it curves into the head. Which is also animated differently, because it's not just a reskin, no matter how many times you say it is, or say you don't care (While simultaneously trying to prove it is)
... the badness in CO is what happens when you treat that sort of thing like a human reskin and slap in a couple different polygon models, it's just shoddy. No, the feral walk thing doesn't help. Legs are still bad, and the feral stance doesn't look good with ANYTHING I've seen. :T
So far as GW2 goes, there appear to be quite a few story choices based specifically off of the race... definitely in the beginning, since all 5 races have seperate branching storylines at least up until the point where they meet in the 6th major city.
How much story, we don't really know, so you can just speculate it's very little, and I can hope it's a lot, and neither of us will know until the game comes out, really. It helps if you realize that GW2 is splitting the personal story based off of race and some biography choices, rather than class like SW:ToR is doing. Does SW:ToR have more personal story? Absolutely. I can't deny that. Plus, there's mroe classes in SW:ToR than GW2 has races, so there's probably going to be more possible stories. Still, that means what GW2 IS focusing on for seperation is the whole race thing, rather than anything else.
... but I don't go supporting GW2 by mindlessly bashing SW:ToR and guessing the worst when what's shown so far shows differently, so why do the opposite? Because some other people do? Are you going to model your behavior off of the worst anti-SW:ToR pro-GW2 fans? Really? Take the high road man! Talk positive about the features you're familiar with for the game you like, and don't go talking about the dearth of options in a game you apparently don't know nearly as much about.
(edit: As you can see, I'm willing to admit that SW:ToR will have what is known in technical terms as 'two metric craploads worth of story'. Even a cursory bit of examination into the GW2 personal story will show that all the races have totally seperate story based off of racial lore in the beginning. Even the types of choices you have are different. So don't see why you have to downplay that.)
uh yea, i forgot, one point star wars has and GW does not:
it's scifi!
dont you ever get bored of chasing those dragons?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Nope. I prefer it actually. I prefer my sci-fi games to be either shooters or at least very actiony.
To be honest, I hate this thread, because it needlessly pits SW:ToR fans against GW2 fans. Yet again. There's some overlap between the two groups, and there doesn't really HAVE to be a fight. It's pretty silly. If you notice, I'm not in this thread to bash SW:ToR, I'm just here to try and clear up misinformation about GW2 (Specifically, just what is involved in being a human reskin. I still think there's a sliding scale of how human something can be, and a human reskin is pretty close to human, while changing skeletal anatomy that much is a pretty big change, but whatever. If I put a sweater on a cat and teach it to walk on hind legs, that doesn't make it a human reskin, that just makes me a crazy cat lady.)
There's obviously things SW:ToR is going to do better than GW2, though I also think there's things GW2 will do better than SW:ToR (Your mileage may vary here, of course. :P )
... and really, both games could suck, worst case scenario. That would be pretty horrible for the MMO industry, but hey, we won't know until the games come out and are around for a few months. I'm personally hoping both deliver on everything they say, and both do well.
... and so far as the first line, he was talking about amount of voice acting. SW:ToR says it has '50 books worth of voice', and GW2 says it has '60 movies worth'.
... I wish they'd use the same measurement, so it was easier to compare. You know, something like 'X amount of hours of voice'.
... because how MUCH voice does a movie have, exactly? How much talking goes on a book, exactly? Is that all the dialogue from a book, or a book that is front cover to back cover, dialogue?
Both are imprecise and sound more like company blurbs than meaningful information. Boo hiss. Thumbs down for both companies for not giving a more useful metric.
Can't deny that some people won't be able to see past the tank/heal/dps mantra but you also can't deny that there is a lot of freedom to go beyond that and do something totally different especially in GW2. The fact that players now have the option call upon 3 different professions to help in the support category is still a win on Anet's part because there's less of emphasis on one profession and that's what they were aiming for. In both DCUO and GA you cannot do without a healer but you can do without a tank, finished many Alerts with just controllers in DCUO.
This is not a game.
Don't want to call the OP a troll, but...
Why not go to the GW2 page and say why you think it will be a better game, rather than go to the SWTOR page and say why it will be a worse game in comparison. You knew, or at least thought, that by focusing on the negative instead of the posivite, you would get a more powerfull negative responce and more or less flaming. I can say the OP more or less succeded after seeing the stupid stuff some people are arguing about.
I usually just read it like this; 50 scripts worth of voice work? 60 scripts worth of voicework? But that just makes GW2's dialogue seem larger.... and that might be the case since they have a lot of environmental voicework going on....,hm.
This is not a game.
It doesn't disqualify your opinion. It just makes your opinion horribly informed.
I don't care at all whether or not you need me to point that out. It's my opinion that your opinion is horribly informed. It's a forum. I'm free to post that opinion.
Your opinion talks about GW2. GW2 is not released yet so you can't have a fully informed opinion about it.
My opinion talks about myself and my feelings. I have been released so I can have a fully informed opinion about myself.
Semantics do matter. They're the only way to point out subtle diffirences and those diffirences matter. If you don't think semantics matter then that's your choice, don't call me a hypocrite because you're incapable of grasping those diffirences though.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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Shhhh! Don't open THAT can of worms. To be honest, it's impossible to compare since they won't just come out with an hours of voice work number. :P I know GW2 heavily emphasizes background dialogue... NPCs standing around talking, and they deliver all the dynamic events that way... but SW:ToR DOES definitely have more personal story than GW2 (By a pretty hefty amount), so it seems they could easily make up for that even if they have little or even no environmental chatter. (Something I'm unsure on, so don't go punching me SW:ToR fans for saying it doesn't have environmental chatter, I said IF. I don't know, either way.)
you have no idea wtf ure talking about.
Oh, c'mon, can we all just agree that everybody's posts (Who doesn't have it already) on this subject should probably be appended with a big fat 'If everything worked out right with these two unreleased games, this is the way it will be....'
Which brings up the question 'How can people have conflicting opinions if it's everything working out right?'...
... the answer to which is 'Because for some people, everything working out right is 'GW2 succeeds and SW:ToR is a big pile of fail', and for other people, everything working out right is 'SW:ToR does great, and GW2 implodes and never comes back'.
I just hope they both do well, and remain cautiously optimistic.
Yeah, people are horrible imprecise with their language... throughout all of MMORPG.com, not just this thread, so you should probably just give up and feel a smug secret sense of satisfaction that you're more precies.
Lol, I've actually gone ahead and tried to calculate it heh but too many factors derived from the "50 books worth of dialogue" statement just makes it hard to calculate without being completely off. Even then though, 50 books is definitely more than 60 feature films ... depending on how long the books are heh.
This is not a game.
Yeah, both will have plenty of voice over work. That's all fine and dandy and the exact amounts shouldn't be a reason to prefer one over the other. It will be probably like you say: Swtor having more VO invested in personal story, GW2 putting a lot of their voice overs into dynamic events like npc's yelling "Omigod, plx help, hero. Teh litening struck teh iron bran agian! Wat do now?!!"
In my mind GW2's dynamic events and Swtors deep stories (+ alignment system and different paths) are both very good things and they aren't differences which lead me to pick Swtor over GW2.
I'm much more concerned with GW2's 1 faction system / no pvp in the open world, player tension avoidance philosophy and teleporting everywhere. In that sense Swtor is an easy pick for me. I suspect it will feel like a much more free, open and 'realistic' game world(s), despite GW2's DE's. Which is the maybe the most important thing in a mmorpg for me; the way a world immerses you and feels natural rather than a packed themepark.
I agree that GW2's races look much better though: character art in general is still my main gripe with Swtor but it isn't a gamebreaking aspect.
I hope with you that both games will be successful and it would be a huge shame if both will disappoint.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Sigh.....
Normally I get hugely annoyed at the GW2 fanboys but I have to say for the last few pages they've mostly been either absent or surprisingly reasonable.
SWToR fanboys:
I like SWToR. I'm not sure I like GW2, the jury's still out on that one but it's sceptical. If I had to pick, not sure why I should though, I'd pick SWToR without a second doubt.
That being said, all information we have had so far points that SWToR does have the traditional trinity in every way and form. It's got a few twists like ranged tanking and the cover system but let's be honest with each other. There's nothing at all from Bioware indicating that they're making anything other then a mostly traditional MMO in a Star Wars setting with an amazing storyline and an extremely extensive companion system. And I'm completely fine with that. In fact I'm quite happy with it. The traditional trinity may be overdone but it does work. I don't think there's more then 0,1% of all MMORPGers that at no point whatsoever have enjoyed playing a trinity game. And I feel confident that the twists with the sci-fi setting, ranged tanking, cover system etc. along with a Bioware storyline and companions will be, for me, more then enough to set SWToR apart from any other traditional trinity MMO. But I do hope we can be honest and just admit that SWToR's class system isn't looking to be in any way revolutionary. It's looking to be evolutionary at most.
Next to that all playable SWToR races will be reskinned humans as far as we know. All GW2 races clearly are not. Bioware themselves stated that, for the romance part, they would only create playable races that people could easily identify with and could be seen making out. Personally, I've yet to wake up from a wet dream about making out with a Charr. I think I can safely say that the majority of humanity is with me on this point.
{mod edit}
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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You have a perfectly valid reason to prefer SW:ToR over GW2, due to your gaming preferences, and I can't argue with it based off of you being misinformed or anything. If anything, you have that opinion BECAUSE you're informed. Good thing I'm not emotionally invested in every MMO player loving GW2.
I hope you do get it (Hey, B2P makes it tempting!), and play WvW, because I would totally love to kill... uh, I mean, team up with you! We can go set people on fire together.
Surprisingly Reasonable GW2 Fanboy is my middle NAME.
Meowhead Surprisingly Reasonable GW2 Fanboy StupidMiddleName.
Which is the main reason I am all for anonymity in MMORPGs, really. What were my parents thinking? (Do I get bonus points for referencing another thread?)
Meh, I value precision. I've go not illusions about whether or not anybody really cares about that at all but that doesn't stop me from wasting a few minutes a day on it.
See it as my sneaky form of forum PvP. Just like the traders in EvE are sneakily doing market PvP.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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(")("),,(")("),(")(")
Wait....
So your surname is "StupidMiddleName"... doesn't that get confusing?
I guess your parents wanted to stick it to the bureaucracy?
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
I just realized I misspelled precise. Oh, the tragic irony.
... anyway, I value precision too, but at least when it comes to opinions, I just automatically append 'In my opinion' to every third sentence I read here on mmorpg.com. In my opinion.
Since I'm Japanese, that's actually my first name. Not that it makes it any better, I guess.
(Not actually Japanese, but why should I start telling the truth at this point in time, really? Though I was in Japan for about 8 months, and surely that counts for SOMETHING.)