Nothing you stated does not suggest the game is PvP based. GW1 had no open world pvp or "pvp servers" either and is renowned for its PvP. While I wouldn't state the game is "based" on PvP I think that they will both be of equal importance in the title. PvP will not wither due to PvE or vice versa. Of course we'll never know till the game is out.
The game is PvE based, and that is straight from the mouth of ArenaNet. Why else would they encourage their players to explore, actually want to fight mobs, 1,500+ dynamic events through the entire world, and so forth? There is no denying PvP will be a large aspect of the game for some players, but the game is PvE based, and if ArenaNet has actually made that OFFICIAL, then it is PvE based, not PvP based.
And, this is Guild Wars 2, not Guild Wars. Just because it's a sequel doesn't mean it will be the same style of gaming. And might I remind you that at first, Guild Wars was PvP, but after Factions and Nightfall the PvP aspect drifted away and it was mainly PvE and only players dedicated to PvP would actually do it more than everyone else, and there was very little of these people. This all got even worse after Eye of the North, so as of how Guild Wars turned out to be, I'm confident in saying it too was PvE based.
You didn't play anything other than Prophecies, did you? The reason I ask is because to say that PvP was the primary focus in Guild Wars 1 is incorrect. It would be correct to say that it was a major focus in Prophecies rather than anything else, but even there there was a strong PvE campaign. Though with Factions they started to drift away from PvP, and with Nightfall it was like they'd forgotten about PvP altogether, since with that campaign and from that point on they really didn't do much with PvP. It seemed that they got fed up with it and all the balance issues, so they just thought 'sod it.'
This was evidenced in Eye of the North, which was also a highly PvE-centric expansion, focusing primarily on PvE and not giving a damn about PvP balance, I don't know if you remember the Ursine powerset, but it was horribly overpowered in PvP and nothing was done about it for a long time, their focus by that point was almost entirely PvE. And the new content they've been adding to Guild Wars for free lately is also PvE, not to mention the PvE mission packs.
So no, I think PvP will have a focus, but it'll be a sideshow attraction, much like it became in Guild Wars 1 after Factions. It'll still be important, but it'll never be more important than PvE at any poitn of the game. Just my opinion going by Nightfall and on, and their released information so far, anyway.
(Got my acronyms mixed up once, there. )
I played through both Prophecies and Factions, but not Nightfall or EotN. I understand how their focus went from PvP to PvE but that's not what I was saying. All that I meant is that ( I believe) if someone wants the game to be a PvP focused game for them, they can. From what has been said about PvP so far, it sounds like you could mainly do that and have your PvE on the side. Kind of like what you said about PvP being a sideshow attraction in GW2. I think it COULD be the opposite for those players who want it to be.
Also, I don't think basing all of this on how they handled GW1's PvP throughout the additional campaigns is fair since this a completely new game. Just a wait and see at this point.
Originally posted by Kyelthis Originally posted by Dream_Chaser @Kyethis You didn't play anything other than Prophecies, did you? The reason I ask is because to say that PvP was the primary focus in Guild Wars 1 is incorrect. It would be correct to say that it was a major focus in Prophecies rather than anything else, but even there there was a strong PvE campaign. Though with Factions they started to drift away from PvP, and with Nightfall it was like they'd forgotten about PvP altogether, since with that campaign and from that point on they really didn't do much with PvP. It seemed that they got fed up with it and all the balance issues, so they just thought 'sod it.' This was evidenced in Eye of the North, which was also a highly PvE-centric expansion, focusing primarily on PvE and not giving a damn about PvP balance, I don't know if you remember the Ursine powerset, but it was horribly overpowered in PvP and nothing was done about it for a long time, their focus by that point was almost entirely PvE. And the new content they've been adding to Guild Wars for free lately is also PvE, not to mention the PvE mission packs. So no, I think PvP will have a focus, but it'll be a sideshow attraction, much like it became in Guild Wars 1 after Factions. It'll still be important, but it'll never be more important than PvE at any poitn of the game. Just my opinion going by Nightfall and on, and their released information so far, anyway. (Got my acronyms mixed up once, there. )
I played through both Prophecies and Factions, but not Nightfall or EotN. I understand how their focus went from PvP to PvE but that's not what I was saying. All that I meant is that ( I believe) if someone wants the game to be a PvP focused game for them, they can. From what has been said about PvP so far, it sounds like you could mainly do that and have your PvE on the side. Kind of like what you said about PvP being a sideshow attraction in GW2. I think it COULD be the opposite for those players who want it to be. Also, I don't think basing all of this on how they handled GW1's PvP throughout the additional campaigns is fair since this a completely new game. Just a wait and see at this point.
With GW1 there plan for PVP was to turn it into a tournament setup and go world wide with it. And they did for some time. But over the years the balance issues and everything that goes along with a tournament focused pvp became too much. And when they started pulling resources from GW1 to work on GW2 its all but became a after thought.
I think there ideal was to have the pvp work alot like arenas do in World of Warcraft. Build a big focus around it, do yearly tournaments and attract alot of attention to it. But it just never took off for the most part for GW.
You didn't play anything other than Prophecies, did you? The reason I ask is because to say that PvP was the primary focus in Guild Wars 1 is incorrect. It would be correct to say that it was a major focus in Prophecies rather than anything else, but even there there was a strong PvE campaign. Though with Factions they started to drift away from PvP, and with Nightfall it was like they'd forgotten about PvP altogether, since with that campaign and from that point on they really didn't do much with PvP. It seemed that they got fed up with it and all the balance issues, so they just thought 'sod it.'
This was evidenced in Eye of the North, which was also a highly PvE-centric expansion, focusing primarily on PvE and not giving a damn about PvP balance, I don't know if you remember the Ursine powerset, but it was horribly overpowered in PvP and nothing was done about it for a long time, their focus by that point was almost entirely PvE. And the new content they've been adding to Guild Wars for free lately is also PvE, not to mention the PvE mission packs.
So no, I think PvP will have a focus, but it'll be a sideshow attraction, much like it became in Guild Wars 1 after Factions. It'll still be important, but it'll never be more important than PvE at any poitn of the game. Just my opinion going by Nightfall and on, and their released information so far, anyway.
(Got my acronyms mixed up once, there. )
I played through both Prophecies and Factions, but not Nightfall or EotN. I understand how their focus went from PvP to PvE but that's not what I was saying. All that I meant is that ( I believe) if someone wants the game to be a PvP focused game for them, they can. From what has been said about PvP so far, it sounds like you could mainly do that and have your PvE on the side. Kind of like what you said about PvP being a sideshow attraction in GW2. I think it COULD be the opposite for those players who want it to be.
Also, I don't think basing all of this on how they handled GW1's PvP throughout the additional campaigns is fair since this a completely new game. Just a wait and see at this point.
With GW1 there plan for PVP was to turn it into a tournament setup and go world wide with it. And they did for some time. But over the years the balance issues and everything that goes along with a tournament focused pvp became too much. And when they started pulling resources from GW1 to work on GW2 its all but became a after thought.
I think there ideal was to have the pvp work alot like arenas do in World of Warcraft. Build a big focus around it, do yearly tournaments and attract alot of attention to it. But it just never took off for the most part for GW.
Yeah but the reason for WoW's success was because a lot of people played WoW in general even if PvPer's don't make up a particularily large percentage, so it had a bigger start up fan base and infinitely larger budget. The game itself is terrible for skill based/balanced pvp. Heck the reason it exists is arguably largely due to gw1, because of it's arena tournament stucture, cash prizes etc, which all came well after gw1's reasonable success.
The irony here is that most successful mainstream multiplayer games cannot be categorized into pure pvp or pure pve. So when someone mocks those who call it a pvp game, they are more ignorant than the person they are mocking. Why? Because it is a pvp game, its also a pve game. These type of titles require the developer to hit the largest market and the fact is...the largest market is neither going to be found by providing a pure pve online rpg or a pure pvp online rpg. The widest market partakes in BOTH gameplay styles.
Challenge mechanics are not magically different between pvp and pve, meaning the core is the same. Some people get all paranoid at the thought of the challenge coming from a player controlled source (pvp) but are some how fine if the source is computer controlled. It doesnt mean the challenge mechanic necessarily changes. PvE is often the method for hard coded story telling and character progression, pvp is the dynamic story telling (the story of the player via combat) and dynamic gameplay. To be honest, nothing is more dynamic than pvp. PvP also consists of non violent player competition. If two players are competing to get the first hit on a mob, then its a form of PvP due to the nature of the competition.
In short, they are not exclusive to one another, but rather inclusive. Any game that is designed from the ground up to include players competing with one another in one form or another IS a pvp game. Any game that uses the environment to tell a story, offer alternative challenges, provides the resources for character advancement and economy, is a pve game. How often do you really see these two exclusive of one another? Most of these big budget mmorpgs will be PvPvE. So to those trying to claim either or, and or mocking those people by suggesting the opposite, then get off your high horse...or chocobo, which ever you prefer.
This game's pvp isn't that stupid "lol your leveling and 10 levels under me im gonna kill you" shat, it's the e-gaming type of pvp. Set arena's with set, rules, gear doesn't matter, stats don't matter, just how you play with your team, what abilities you have and how good you are in pvp. Im tired of this "hey im in full epics your not GG" pvp we have in mmo's today (AoC, WoW, WAR)
I see no problem with this because PVP is mostly inbalanced in many many games such as RIFT and Runes of Magic and basically any archer class/warrior class in a f2p mmorpg
however, if Guild wars 2 pvp is balanced, i will play this game till i die.
The irony here is that most successful mainstream multiplayer games cannot be categorized into pure pvp or pure pve. So when someone mocks those who call it a pvp game, they are more ignorant than the person they are mocking. Why? Because it is a pvp game, its also a pve game. These type of titles require the developer to hit the largest market and the fact is...the largest market is neither going to be found by providing a pure pve online rpg or a pure pvp online rpg. The widest market partakes in BOTH gameplay styles.
Challenge mechanics are not magically different between pvp and pve, meaning the core is the same. Some people get all paranoid at the thought of the challenge coming from a player controlled source (pvp) but are some how fine if the source is computer controlled. It doesnt mean the challenge mechanic necessarily changes. PvE is often the method for hard coded story telling and character progression, pvp is the dynamic story telling (the story of the player via combat) and dynamic gameplay. To be honest, nothing is more dynamic than pvp. PvP also consists of non violent player competition. If two players are competing to get the first hit on a mob, then its a form of PvP due to the nature of the competition.
In short, they are not exclusive to one another, but rather inclusive. Any game that is designed from the ground up to include players competing with one another in one form or another IS a pvp game. Any game that uses the environment to tell a story, offer alternative challenges, provides the resources for character advancement and economy, is a pve game. How often do you really see these two exclusive of one another? Most of these big budget mmorpgs will be PvPvE. So to those trying to claim either or, and or mocking those people by suggesting the opposite, then get off your high horse...or chocobo, which ever you prefer.
Amen brother Amen, speak the truth so all shall hear it.
I've always seen GW2 as both. I think GW2 has a lot of potential to have really awesome pvp do to the combat system and skills. Speaking of skills I think that's where most mmos get screwed up on balance. They have so many skills that it becomes a nightmare to balance. Anet has said GW1 had so many skills that a lot of them were either useless or just copies of other skills. They went with less skills but they are more focused now, you are less likely to gimp your build with skills you can't use. I think that by limiting the skills and going with quality will make it easier on balancing.
Of course all that goes out he window when people start playing the game and figuring out how to use and abuse those cross class combos. Should make for some entertaining pvp.
Yeah but the reason for WoW's success was because a lot of people played WoW in general even if PvPer's don't make up a particularily large percentage, so it had a bigger start up fan base and infinitely larger budget. The game itself is terrible for skill based/balanced pvp. Heck the reason it exists is arguably largely due to gw1, because of it's arena tournament stucture, cash prizes etc, which all came well after gw1's reasonable success.
Exactly, it was due to GW1's GvG that WoW created Arenas for competetive play. They may have eventually added it to the game even if ArenaNet didn't, but I highly doubt it would've been as swift of an implementation. Blizzard has a knack for taking others' ideas anyways so I dunno.
how GW2 handles PVP sounds pretty interesting.. given that the mists represent a 'boundary' between worlds, so while pvp might not take place between guilds in the same world.. it will between guilds of different worlds (if they enter the mists with that intention at least) the combat is also encouraging.. as the numbers involved will be.. what i think of as pvp.. ie 50+ .. or even 100+ given that the instances appear to be geared towards large scale combat and player numbers.. there also seems to be room for the world v world combat to even increment to world v world v world.. now.... that.. would be awesome.. as im sure anyone who has played daoc would agree... the fact that any player/guld from the same world will automatically be on the same side when entering the mists should make it very popular.. with no lack of allies.. in fact. with the competitive nature of most PVP players.. and the challenge of making your 'world' the most kick-ass world out there.. means that PVP orientated guilds will be in high demand.. so.. yeah..the world might be PVE.. and that will suit the PVE players.. but the PVP combat.. should be amazing.
GW2 just rushed up my list of games to look forward to....
how GW2 handles PVP sounds pretty interesting.. given that the mists represent a 'boundary' between worlds, so while pvp might not take place between guilds in the same world.. it will between guilds of different worlds (if they enter the mists with that intention at least) the combat is also encouraging.. as the numbers involved will be.. what i think of as pvp.. ie 50+ .. or even 100+ given that the instances appear to be geared towards large scale combat and player numbers.. there also seems to be room for the world v world combat to even increment to world v world v world.. now.... that.. would be awesome.. as im sure anyone who has played daoc would agree... the fact that any player/guld from the same world will automatically be on the same side when entering the mists should make it very popular.. with no lack of allies.. in fact. with the competitive nature of most PVP players.. and the challenge of making your 'world' the most kick-ass world out there.. means that PVP orientated guilds will be in high demand.. so.. yeah..the world might be PVE.. and that will suit the PVE players.. but the PVP combat.. should be amazing.
GW2 just rushed up my list of games to look forward to....
It already is WvWvW.
World V World PvP
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
how GW2 handles PVP sounds pretty interesting.. given that the mists represent a 'boundary' between worlds, so while pvp might not take place between guilds in the same world.. it will between guilds of different worlds (if they enter the mists with that intention at least) the combat is also encouraging.. as the numbers involved will be.. what i think of as pvp.. ie 50+ .. or even 100+ given that the instances appear to be geared towards large scale combat and player numbers.. there also seems to be room for the world v world combat to even increment to world v world v world.. now.... that.. would be awesome.. as im sure anyone who has played daoc would agree... the fact that any player/guld from the same world will automatically be on the same side when entering the mists should make it very popular.. with no lack of allies.. in fact. with the competitive nature of most PVP players.. and the challenge of making your 'world' the most kick-ass world out there.. means that PVP orientated guilds will be in high demand.. so.. yeah..the world might be PVE.. and that will suit the PVE players.. but the PVP combat.. should be amazing.
GW2 just rushed up my list of games to look forward to....
It already is WvWvW.
World V World PvP
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
the game was built pvp centric, hence the reduction in complexity of skills. Maybe that was just for Izzy
Winning in the mists helps the entire pve side of your server
Winning in structured pvp helps your wallet and computer
It would be stupid to habve those as game design then slap pvp on like a bandage and scramble to balance it.
Besides noone cares about full pvp servers anymore anyway. 90% of the pvp in those games happens in a small percentage of the game. Most of the pvpers I see now want a sandbox inside a themepark, with balance and no lvl/gear grind.
You didn't play anything other than Prophecies, did you? The reason I ask is because to say that PvP was the primary focus in Guild Wars 1 is incorrect. It would be correct to say that it was a major focus in Prophecies rather than anything else, but even there there was a strong PvE campaign. Though with Factions they started to drift away from PvP, and with Nightfall it was like they'd forgotten about PvP altogether, since with that campaign and from that point on they really didn't do much with PvP. It seemed that they got fed up with it and all the balance issues, so they just thought 'sod it.'
This was evidenced in Eye of the North, which was also a highly PvE-centric expansion, focusing primarily on PvE and not giving a damn about PvP balance, I don't know if you remember the Ursine powerset, but it was horribly overpowered in PvP and nothing was done about it for a long time, their focus by that point was almost entirely PvE. And the new content they've been adding to Guild Wars for free lately is also PvE, not to mention the PvE mission packs.
So no, I think PvP will have a focus, but it'll be a sideshow attraction, much like it became in Guild Wars 1 after Factions. It'll still be important, but it'll never be more important than PvE at any poitn of the game. Just my opinion going by Nightfall and on, and their released information so far, anyway.
(Got my acronyms mixed up once, there. )
because Hero battle for Nightfall and LUxv Kurzick on % different maps is not PvP right?
I agree that Guild Wars 1 Shifted away from PvP but I never tought of it as a PvP game...The story is what always kept me interested...The PvP was great and the limited number of skills and many different builds is why people think it is great (more skill-less armor based) but it never was a PvP game....
Guild Wars 2 is simplying building on what DAoC did returning to a 3 faction game...while not having to worry about balance due to everyone being able to play everything....Guild Wars2 is far from a PvP centric game but it is there and it will be good...and who knows maybe it will be a great PvE and PvP game...But PvE and progressing the stories are what we will see in expansions and such
I saw it the opposite, I always felt Guild Wars was a primary PvP game with some PvE tacked on since the PvE felt so clunky. But I only played the original, I imagine the expansions probably expanded on the PvE quite a bit.
The coolest thing about GW was that I could make a PVP character and gain experience with PVP and get the PVP titles. No Grind. I dont have to pay a monthly sub. Even just 10 minutes is enough time to hop on and have a quick match.
Actually my absolute favorite is that you do not get OP gear from PVE over a starting PVP character that I know of.
I dont want to PVE. I might check out the open world but I only want to random arena.
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Would you call MOBA games PvP? How about Counterstrike? Because those were examples sited when asked "What will the PvP be like".
The fact is, Guild Wars 2 WILL have an e-sport component, and it WILL be fun as hell. Does that mean it is a PvP game? Ehh... It has assumedly amazing PvP combat, if that is what you are asking.
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Would you call MOBA games PvP? How about Counterstrike? Because those were examples sited when asked "What will the PvP be like".
The fact is, Guild Wars 2 WILL have an e-sport component, and it WILL be fun as hell. Does that mean it is a PvP game? Ehh... It has assumedly amazing PvP combat, if that is what you are asking.
There is a difference between PvP games and PvP MMORPGs. The latter one assumes more depth and larger fights and persistance where as the former one could be just like League of Legends or CS with little or no persistance.
Then add to this politics and PvP feuds that can last for days, weeks and months and you will realise how different MMORPG PvP can be.
I wrote in several posts that GW combat was designed with PVP in mind. And PVE just uses it in the same way. Team vs team, even when you fight mobs. I only wrote this to point out the difference with other MMOs, where combat is designed for PVE. And then they add some changes to make PVP possible (classic example is how taunting cant be done in PVP, so they slap some debuff on it, or its even completely useless in PVP).
This doesnt mean that GW is just about PVP. Devs always stated that they thought PVE was just as important. In GW2 this will be the same way. People who think in terms of PVP players vs PVE players are stupid. Thats what game developers never want. And if the combat system is designed well so that it works in the same way in PVE as in PVP, it doesnt have to be a conflict either.
In GW2 I hope that combat will be designed with PVP in mind again. So that PVE uses it in the same way. And that any changes made to balance PVP, wont have too much negative impact on PVE because of that.
"To the ones saying guild wars 2 is a PvP based game..."
Good lead in.
As a player of GW it is my opinion that GW2 will be more PvE than PvP.... however when it comes to game balancing, PvP will win out as it has in GW. That has been shown many, many times in GW's primary/secondary class system. I seriously doubt the Devs will be able to get rid of that mindset easily. I see this as an issue that the Devs will have to work through. They may very well do so to everyone's gaming happiness.
IMHO, as an individual (your results may vary) at release GW will perform as this:
1.) GW2 will be a PvE MMORPG balanced for PvP by default (strike one)...
at least it will be a MMORPG and not just a MMO...
2.) GW2 will have only primary classes...no secondary class to "bail out" bad design or bad balancing of primary classes... (consider some of the bad primary class changes over the years in GW) (strike two)....
3.) and GW2 is a game being designed where everyone can heal, where there is no real defining differences between the classes as compared to older MMO/MMORPGs (class distinctiveness and uniqueness is a feature I always enjoyed and encourage now)(strike three)....
For me, GW is a Strike Out. Many other people are gonna love it. So it is with all new MMOs/MMORPGs now.
To everyone that likes how Guild Wars 2 is being designed I would say to you "keep your eyes open and work with the Devs" and most of all "Enjoy".
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"To the ones saying guild wars 2 is a PvP based game..."
Good lead in.
As a player of GW it is my opinion that GW2 will be more PvE than PvP.... however when it comes to game balancing, PvP will win out as it has in GW. That has been shown many, many times in GW's primary/secondary class system. I seriously doubt the Devs will be able to get rid of that mindset easily. I see this as an issue that the Devs will have to work through. They may very well do so to everyone's gaming happiness.
IMHO, as an individual (your results may vary) at release GW will perform as this:
1.) GW2 will be a PvE MMORPG balanced for PvP by default (strike one)...
at least it will be a MMORPG and not just a MMO...
2.) GW2 will have only primary classes...no secondary class to "bail out" bad design or bad balancing of primary classes... (consider some of the bad primary class changes over the years in GW) (strike two)....
3.) and GW2 is a game being designed where everyone can heal, where there is no real defining differences between the classes as compared to older MMO/MMORPGs (class distinctiveness and uniqueness is a feature I always enjoyed and encourage now)(strike three)....
For me, GW is a Strike Out. Many other people are gonna love it. So it is with all new MMOs/MMORPGs now.
To everyone that likes how Guild Wars 2 is being designed I would say to you "keep your eyes open and work with the Devs" and most of all "Enjoy".
Baseball sucks, you're out.
Agree with ur point tho, but still afraid a bit that they will focus on pve to much and pvp won't be that great.
It's both. ArenaNet builds the classes with PvP in mind, trying to balance it. Then incorporate it into PvE and balancing the classes with environment. It's called "GUILD Wars" for a reason. To say it's not PvP is ridiculous. It's both. That simple.
It's called Guild Wars because of the guild wars that happened between the three human nations in the lore leading up to Prophecies, which has nothing at all to do with player guilds.
But you knew that, right? >_>
It's called Guild Wars because they focused on building the classes for PvP first. Guild Wars has the most balanced PvP system because of this. The fact that the stories in the game itself has nothing to do with the human nations fighting each other should tell you this. If they wanted it to be called Guild Wars because of the Wars before the game, then that's the game they would make.
Next time you treat someone like an idiot, make sure you think about it hard before making useless irrelevant points.
Nice that you call someone an idiot when their information comes directly from ArenaNet! Good job on that, I'm sure you've done yourself proud. Yes, of course, I'm an idiot, ArenaNet? All idiots too. Thsoe people who disagree with you? Also idiots. Anyone who doesn't happen to be you? Idiots!
I'm going to direct your advice back at'cha.
(Just FYI: A little bit of research goes a long way. And ArenaNet have said in interviews that that lore is why they named their game Guild Wars, and they've told us that it had nothing to do with player guilds, which is a common but entirely incorrect assumption. So... good job, slick. Watch who you call an idiot, next time, eh? )
Yes, its the lore why they named their game Guild Wars. And players that create guilds can participate in the Guild Wars. The main form of team PVP in Guild Wars, is Guild vs Guild. Where each guild has their own keep (guildhall) in the Guild Wars. This was especially with the original Guild Wars (prophecies) the focus of the game. There are even PVE challenge missions where you take out Guild Lords in Guild Wars. And the cool thing is, that those PVE teams use PVP builds. In the Guild Wars.
Interesting fact : When you leave presearing (its the tutorial part, which takes place some years before the rest of the game), you have to prove yourself in a 4vs 4 match. Depending on how many players go through, teams on both sides get completed with NPC henchmen. So before you even take part in the main game, you already get a taste of team pvp.
And the person you quoted is right. GW combat system is designed for PVP.
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The game is PvE based, and that is straight from the mouth of ArenaNet. Why else would they encourage their players to explore, actually want to fight mobs, 1,500+ dynamic events through the entire world, and so forth? There is no denying PvP will be a large aspect of the game for some players, but the game is PvE based, and if ArenaNet has actually made that OFFICIAL, then it is PvE based, not PvP based.And, this is Guild Wars 2, not Guild Wars. Just because it's a sequel doesn't mean it will be the same style of gaming. And might I remind you that at first, Guild Wars was PvP, but after Factions and Nightfall the PvP aspect drifted away and it was mainly PvE and only players dedicated to PvP would actually do it more than everyone else, and there was very little of these people. This all got even worse after Eye of the North, so as of how Guild Wars turned out to be, I'm confident in saying it too was PvE based.
I played through both Prophecies and Factions, but not Nightfall or EotN. I understand how their focus went from PvP to PvE but that's not what I was saying. All that I meant is that ( I believe) if someone wants the game to be a PvP focused game for them, they can. From what has been said about PvP so far, it sounds like you could mainly do that and have your PvE on the side. Kind of like what you said about PvP being a sideshow attraction in GW2. I think it COULD be the opposite for those players who want it to be.
Also, I don't think basing all of this on how they handled GW1's PvP throughout the additional campaigns is fair since this a completely new game. Just a wait and see at this point.
Also, I don't think basing all of this on how they handled GW1's PvP throughout the additional campaigns is fair since this a completely new game. Just a wait and see at this point.
With GW1 there plan for PVP was to turn it into a tournament setup and go world wide with it. And they did for some time. But over the years the balance issues and everything that goes along with a tournament focused pvp became too much. And when they started pulling resources from GW1 to work on GW2 its all but became a after thought.
I think there ideal was to have the pvp work alot like arenas do in World of Warcraft. Build a big focus around it, do yearly tournaments and attract alot of attention to it. But it just never took off for the most part for GW.
Yeah but the reason for WoW's success was because a lot of people played WoW in general even if PvPer's don't make up a particularily large percentage, so it had a bigger start up fan base and infinitely larger budget. The game itself is terrible for skill based/balanced pvp. Heck the reason it exists is arguably largely due to gw1, because of it's arena tournament stucture, cash prizes etc, which all came well after gw1's reasonable success.
The irony here is that most successful mainstream multiplayer games cannot be categorized into pure pvp or pure pve. So when someone mocks those who call it a pvp game, they are more ignorant than the person they are mocking. Why? Because it is a pvp game, its also a pve game. These type of titles require the developer to hit the largest market and the fact is...the largest market is neither going to be found by providing a pure pve online rpg or a pure pvp online rpg. The widest market partakes in BOTH gameplay styles.
Challenge mechanics are not magically different between pvp and pve, meaning the core is the same. Some people get all paranoid at the thought of the challenge coming from a player controlled source (pvp) but are some how fine if the source is computer controlled. It doesnt mean the challenge mechanic necessarily changes. PvE is often the method for hard coded story telling and character progression, pvp is the dynamic story telling (the story of the player via combat) and dynamic gameplay. To be honest, nothing is more dynamic than pvp. PvP also consists of non violent player competition. If two players are competing to get the first hit on a mob, then its a form of PvP due to the nature of the competition.
In short, they are not exclusive to one another, but rather inclusive. Any game that is designed from the ground up to include players competing with one another in one form or another IS a pvp game. Any game that uses the environment to tell a story, offer alternative challenges, provides the resources for character advancement and economy, is a pve game. How often do you really see these two exclusive of one another? Most of these big budget mmorpgs will be PvPvE. So to those trying to claim either or, and or mocking those people by suggesting the opposite, then get off your high horse...or chocobo, which ever you prefer.
This game's pvp isn't that stupid "lol your leveling and 10 levels under me im gonna kill you" shat, it's the e-gaming type of pvp. Set arena's with set, rules, gear doesn't matter, stats don't matter, just how you play with your team, what abilities you have and how good you are in pvp. Im tired of this "hey im in full epics your not GG" pvp we have in mmo's today (AoC, WoW, WAR)
I see no problem with this because PVP is mostly inbalanced in many many games such as RIFT and Runes of Magic and basically any archer class/warrior class in a f2p mmorpg
however, if Guild wars 2 pvp is balanced, i will play this game till i die.
Amen brother Amen, speak the truth so all shall hear it.
I've always seen GW2 as both. I think GW2 has a lot of potential to have really awesome pvp do to the combat system and skills. Speaking of skills I think that's where most mmos get screwed up on balance. They have so many skills that it becomes a nightmare to balance. Anet has said GW1 had so many skills that a lot of them were either useless or just copies of other skills. They went with less skills but they are more focused now, you are less likely to gimp your build with skills you can't use. I think that by limiting the skills and going with quality will make it easier on balancing.
Of course all that goes out he window when people start playing the game and figuring out how to use and abuse those cross class combos. Should make for some entertaining pvp.
Exactly, it was due to GW1's GvG that WoW created Arenas for competetive play. They may have eventually added it to the game even if ArenaNet didn't, but I highly doubt it would've been as swift of an implementation. Blizzard has a knack for taking others' ideas anyways so I dunno.
how GW2 handles PVP sounds pretty interesting.. given that the mists represent a 'boundary' between worlds, so while pvp might not take place between guilds in the same world.. it will between guilds of different worlds (if they enter the mists with that intention at least) the combat is also encouraging.. as the numbers involved will be.. what i think of as pvp.. ie 50+ .. or even 100+ given that the instances appear to be geared towards large scale combat and player numbers.. there also seems to be room for the world v world combat to even increment to world v world v world.. now.... that.. would be awesome.. as im sure anyone who has played daoc would agree... the fact that any player/guld from the same world will automatically be on the same side when entering the mists should make it very popular.. with no lack of allies.. in fact. with the competitive nature of most PVP players.. and the challenge of making your 'world' the most kick-ass world out there.. means that PVP orientated guilds will be in high demand.. so.. yeah..the world might be PVE.. and that will suit the PVE players.. but the PVP combat.. should be amazing.
GW2 just rushed up my list of games to look forward to....
It already is WvWvW.
World V World PvP
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/287180/Everything-We-Know-about-GW2.html
for me that is probably the single feature that outweighed all the negatives.. so that i buy the game..
I guess it depends on your definition but,
the game was built pvp centric, hence the reduction in complexity of skills. Maybe that was just for Izzy
Winning in the mists helps the entire pve side of your server
Winning in structured pvp helps your wallet and computer
It would be stupid to habve those as game design then slap pvp on like a bandage and scramble to balance it.
Besides noone cares about full pvp servers anymore anyway. 90% of the pvp in those games happens in a small percentage of the game. Most of the pvpers I see now want a sandbox inside a themepark, with balance and no lvl/gear grind.
/check
because Hero battle for Nightfall and LUxv Kurzick on % different maps is not PvP right?
I agree that Guild Wars 1 Shifted away from PvP but I never tought of it as a PvP game...The story is what always kept me interested...The PvP was great and the limited number of skills and many different builds is why people think it is great (more skill-less armor based) but it never was a PvP game....
Guild Wars 2 is simplying building on what DAoC did returning to a 3 faction game...while not having to worry about balance due to everyone being able to play everything....Guild Wars2 is far from a PvP centric game but it is there and it will be good...and who knows maybe it will be a great PvE and PvP game...But PvE and progressing the stories are what we will see in expansions and such
I saw it the opposite, I always felt Guild Wars was a primary PvP game with some PvE tacked on since the PvE felt so clunky. But I only played the original, I imagine the expansions probably expanded on the PvE quite a bit.
The coolest thing about GW was that I could make a PVP character and gain experience with PVP and get the PVP titles. No Grind. I dont have to pay a monthly sub. Even just 10 minutes is enough time to hop on and have a quick match.
Actually my absolute favorite is that you do not get OP gear from PVE over a starting PVP character that I know of.
I dont want to PVE. I might check out the open world but I only want to random arena.
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Yep, starting to write of this game as a WoW clone PvE themepark with PvP tacked on. Pity.
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i laugh at people who say 'if this is pvp game then why all the info is about pve?'.
most of mmo market evolves around pve. what do you want to show to catch their attention? pvp or pve?
ofcourse pve.
basics of marketing.
every gw1 fan expects great pvp from gw2 as... default.
Would you call MOBA games PvP? How about Counterstrike? Because those were examples sited when asked "What will the PvP be like".
The fact is, Guild Wars 2 WILL have an e-sport component, and it WILL be fun as hell. Does that mean it is a PvP game? Ehh... It has assumedly amazing PvP combat, if that is what you are asking.
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There is a difference between PvP games and PvP MMORPGs. The latter one assumes more depth and larger fights and persistance where as the former one could be just like League of Legends or CS with little or no persistance.
Then add to this politics and PvP feuds that can last for days, weeks and months and you will realise how different MMORPG PvP can be.
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I wrote in several posts that GW combat was designed with PVP in mind. And PVE just uses it in the same way. Team vs team, even when you fight mobs. I only wrote this to point out the difference with other MMOs, where combat is designed for PVE. And then they add some changes to make PVP possible (classic example is how taunting cant be done in PVP, so they slap some debuff on it, or its even completely useless in PVP).
This doesnt mean that GW is just about PVP. Devs always stated that they thought PVE was just as important. In GW2 this will be the same way. People who think in terms of PVP players vs PVE players are stupid. Thats what game developers never want. And if the combat system is designed well so that it works in the same way in PVE as in PVP, it doesnt have to be a conflict either.
In GW2 I hope that combat will be designed with PVP in mind again. So that PVE uses it in the same way. And that any changes made to balance PVP, wont have too much negative impact on PVE because of that.
"To the ones saying guild wars 2 is a PvP based game..."
Good lead in.
As a player of GW it is my opinion that GW2 will be more PvE than PvP.... however when it comes to game balancing, PvP will win out as it has in GW. That has been shown many, many times in GW's primary/secondary class system. I seriously doubt the Devs will be able to get rid of that mindset easily. I see this as an issue that the Devs will have to work through. They may very well do so to everyone's gaming happiness.
IMHO, as an individual (your results may vary) at release GW will perform as this:
1.) GW2 will be a PvE MMORPG balanced for PvP by default (strike one)...
at least it will be a MMORPG and not just a MMO...
2.) GW2 will have only primary classes...no secondary class to "bail out" bad design or bad balancing of primary classes... (consider some of the bad primary class changes over the years in GW) (strike two)....
3.) and GW2 is a game being designed where everyone can heal, where there is no real defining differences between the classes as compared to older MMO/MMORPGs (class distinctiveness and uniqueness is a feature I always enjoyed and encourage now)(strike three)....
For me, GW is a Strike Out. Many other people are gonna love it. So it is with all new MMOs/MMORPGs now.
To everyone that likes how Guild Wars 2 is being designed I would say to you "keep your eyes open and work with the Devs" and most of all "Enjoy".
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Agree with ur point tho, but still afraid a bit that they will focus on pve to much and pvp won't be that great.
Yes, its the lore why they named their game Guild Wars. And players that create guilds can participate in the Guild Wars. The main form of team PVP in Guild Wars, is Guild vs Guild. Where each guild has their own keep (guildhall) in the Guild Wars. This was especially with the original Guild Wars (prophecies) the focus of the game. There are even PVE challenge missions where you take out Guild Lords in Guild Wars. And the cool thing is, that those PVE teams use PVP builds. In the Guild Wars.
Interesting fact : When you leave presearing (its the tutorial part, which takes place some years before the rest of the game), you have to prove yourself in a 4vs 4 match. Depending on how many players go through, teams on both sides get completed with NPC henchmen. So before you even take part in the main game, you already get a taste of team pvp.
And the person you quoted is right. GW combat system is designed for PVP.