so then thewy are looking into makeing space flight free form and multiplayer and its entirely based of community feedback!!!
are they trying to say they havnt been reading their own forums on this exact topic.. i can certainly recall seeing a good amount of closed threads due to copacity of posting now im not mathamatical genius but that sounds like an aweful lot of community feedback asking for more than just a rail shooter..
ok so its too late to enhance the space before launch. reading this has restored alittle of my faithe in biowares ability to produce an mmo. not much though.
also i cant say im overly impressed with the whole instanced ship business. is this their way of saying houseing is instanced and how will items in your ships be placed.. are there going to be those rediculous item slots that you have in lord of the rings or is it going to be like swg where you can posistion things where you like??
if its more swg then i suppose the whole instanced scenario isnt so terrrible.
and lastly... if your traveling with your friends your own ship miraculously travels with you????
yea like that isnt going to chuck a spanner or two in the whole works.
one thing i am fairly certain of is that the rail space shooter ahs definately gotta go!! its just not rocking many peoples boats at all..
i strongly sugest bioware devs read their own forums and get a true feel for community feedback on their space combat.
Sounds ok to me. I dislike the fact that travelling costs money. I mean, I can ride through the entire game world in any other MMO and only quick travel costs extra. Since a galaxy can't be travelled on foot, I think it should be free. Maybe a one time fee to "unlock" a hyperspace lane or what.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
so then thewy are looking into makeing space flight free form and multiplayer and its entirely based of community feedback!!!
are they trying to say they havnt been reading their own forums on this exact topic.. i can certainly recall seeing a good amount of closed threads due to copacity of posting now im not mathamatical genius but that sounds like an aweful lot of community feedback asking for more than just a rail shooter..
I think they want player feedback based on actual gameplay instead of just looking from the sidelines through a couple of videos. They want to see if the people who play the game will like the space shooter enough to keep it or if it needs a drastic change. You can say a lot on the forums but if the actual truth is that people like it then thats the data you kind of want to go with. Speculation on how fun it is based off of screenshots and videos wouldn't be (in my opinoin) very good data. Ever try watching someone else play a game, then a few minutes later play the game yourself. At least for me it's a completely different experience. Maybe thats how it is here. If it's not and it needs to change as much as people say it does on the forums then that thought won't change on release and they will look into changing (or so they say)
ok so its too late to enhance the space before launch. reading this has restored alittle of my faithe in biowares ability to produce an mmo. not much though.
also i cant say im overly impressed with the whole instanced ship business. is this their way of saying houseing is instanced and how will items in your ships be placed.. are there going to be those rediculous item slots that you have in lord of the rings or is it going to be like swg where you can posistion things where you like??
if its more swg then i suppose the whole instanced scenario isnt so terrrible.
and lastly... if your traveling with your friends your own ship miraculously travels with you????
yea like that isnt going to chuck a spanner or two in the whole works.
I'd say this is a sacrificing the lore of the world a tiny bit for gameplay. So that way then can have people fly with you but then never get stuck themselves. I'm more interested in how this will work for people who have yet to aquire the ship or the rights to do this. I'm guessing it just won't let you via a flag of sorts to board other's ships.
one thing i am fairly certain of is that the rail space shooter ahs definately gotta go!! its just not rocking many peoples boats at all..
i strongly sugest bioware devs read their own forums and get a true feel for community feedback on their space combat.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Sounds ok to me. I dislike the fact that travelling costs money. I mean, I can ride through the entire game world in any other MMO and only quick travel costs extra. Since a galaxy can't be travelled on foot, I think it should be free. Maybe a one time fee to "unlock" a hyperspace lane or what.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
thats exactly what it is. if you watch the space combat demonstration from pax east, when they select the space battle, you can see in the menu "fuel cost 51."
Sounds ok to me. I dislike the fact that travelling costs money. I mean, I can ride through the entire game world in any other MMO and only quick travel costs extra. Since a galaxy can't be travelled on foot, I think it should be free. Maybe a one time fee to "unlock" a hyperspace lane or what.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
thats exactly what it is. if you watch the space combat demonstration from pax east, when they select the space battle, you can see in the menu "fuel cost 51."
Sounds ok to me. I dislike the fact that travelling costs money. I mean, I can ride through the entire game world in any other MMO and only quick travel costs extra. Since a galaxy can't be travelled on foot, I think it should be free. Maybe a one time fee to "unlock" a hyperspace lane or what.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
thats exactly what it is. if you watch the space combat demonstration from pax east, when they select the space battle, you can see in the menu "fuel cost 51."
OK, here is what I don't get...BW says they are open to making changes based on playerbase feedback after launch...what about BEFORE launch...railspace is drawing a vast amount of criticism...if BW cant "hear" that criticism and discontent now, Im not sure what will change to let them "hear" it after launch....
So they should just magically pull a years worth of code out of their ass in order to please a bunch of whiny cry-babies? Or should they hold off on the release even longer? If you have unrealistic expectations like this, nothing they do will ever please you.
Woah, ease off on the aggro there...Did I say I expected them to ditch one system at this point and code a whole new one? What I did say is Im not clear how, or why, they went with railspace in the first place, given the LONG LONG history of xwing games and the generally well received JTL. I distrust that whole developpment decision making cycle. And for them to come out and say playerbase feedback will drive future development makes me ask teh obvious question as to why it didnt drive current development with something so obviously dubious as SINGLE player railspace in an MMO.
As others have pointed out SWG didnt have space at launch....or player cities, or mounts, or vehicles, or a jedi system, or a host of other things that they feverishly worked to add.
I would be PERFECTLY happy if they would just come out and say space is out of scope for launch, but will most likely/definitely be an expansion within 6-12 months...a full fledged, space experience. Because railspace does nothing for me. It might as well not even be there, as far as Im concerned...
Sounds ok to me. I dislike the fact that travelling costs money. I mean, I can ride through the entire game world in any other MMO and only quick travel costs extra. Since a galaxy can't be travelled on foot, I think it should be free. Maybe a one time fee to "unlock" a hyperspace lane or what.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
thats exactly what it is. if you watch the space combat demonstration from pax east, when they select the space battle, you can see in the menu "fuel cost 51."
as for how your ship gets to a planet without you if you travel with a friend on their ship, why couldn't companions fly it there
Autopilot?
don't know about you, but i don't want this flying my ship.
+∞
Dude, you TOTALLY made my night! Seriously, i've been working on my final project for my DBMS class that is due at midnight tonight, finished biology yesterday and c++ on monday, and i'm wound so freakin tight I could snap!
I'm perfectly happy with space combat as it is, if they never change it I won't make one sound of protest. Personally I think the devs are bending to much to whiners as is. The majority wanted AC's locked, a few whined and now they are considereing advanced class resets, dual specing, and everything else I was hoping wouldn't be in ToR. A space based tunnel shooter harkens back to the old days of rogue squadron, I like it.
Yeah I played rogue squadron, and Ive also watched my kid play lego star wars on the xbox, and that gameplay reminded me alot of those early rail type games (rebel assault).
I can tell you that I got about 1% of the enjoyment and replayability out of those games as I did Xwing, Tiefighter, Xwing v Tiefighter, and Xwing Alliance...
Sounds ok to me. I dislike the fact that travelling costs money. I mean, I can ride through the entire game world in any other MMO and only quick travel costs extra. Since a galaxy can't be travelled on foot, I think it should be free. Maybe a one time fee to "unlock" a hyperspace lane or what.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
thats exactly what it is. if you watch the space combat demonstration from pax east, when they select the space battle, you can see in the menu "fuel cost 51."
as for how your ship gets to a planet without you if you travel with a friend on their ship, why couldn't companions fly it there
Autopilot?
don't know about you, but i don't want this flying my ship.
+∞
Dude, you TOTALLY made my night! Seriously, i've been working on my final project for my DBMS class that is due at midnight tonight, finished biology yesterday and c++ on monday, and i'm wound so freakin tight I could snap!
Well, SWG launched with space and it was amazing right? Shooting things in space at release in SWG was great.
I think it would be GREAT if down the line, they released an Open shooter like Xwingvstiefigther, that was seperate. They said the ships can be customized (it's in the tech).
If this game does good, we could see a whole bunch of great stuff added too.
Baldur's Gate was a world of difference from ME and ME2 to me.
Neverwinter Nights with its phenomenal tooling set offered something different from a KOTOR and BG as well.
So, yes, these games have a typical Bioware quality to them, but no, those are not the same games, not even in mechanics.
You might as well say that Rockstar has always made the same game, or that Bethesda or Valve have always made the same game (come to think of it, that might probably be more true).
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
First the fact they put in a housing system in form of space ship is great, thanks guys.
The crew concept is also great to me.
The short sighting of the features is very disappointing tough. First you would expect in such an environement to be able to buy a pletora of ship type, maybe even build them or at least order them; and naturally custumizing/repair them since its pretty commun in every SW movie or whatever, and was always a deciding moment in a lot of stories.
Second once more its nice the space battle are in, but it seam to fall very short.
Just hope it will a bit more for you for futur development, but i tend to think that what is not done at start will never be done later from experince, so its a bit of a shame to me. I wish you guys would have seen the potential of a space mmo like Eve with a real character handling, too bad for you i guess; because i'm sure that would have sky rocket your game to an other level without a doupt.
Most mmorpgs I've played usually lacks one thing in common: Optional content. Preferrably something different in gameplay. I hate the "only raids as end game"-model like WoW. In this light the SW:StarFox looks great to me since I expected this game to be character based only, no space untill expansions.
Also I think it's better to release the game with complete character based gameplay, and add more in-depth space later. No need to postpone the launch for something that can be added later and has nothing to do with the basic on-the-ground gameplay.
More options means more to do which is always good in mmorpgs. No one's forcing you to do it. I dont expect some other optional content to be left out just because there's one pub full of people who dont like it.
the only way i can see me even getting this game, is if they implement full PVP space combat, xwing v tie fighter style.. (though given the time period difference.. not those actual ships!!) a rail shooter browser based minigame.... really doesnt mesh well with Star Wars.. it just looks like an 'ad hoc' addon that really hasnt had much work done on it... im probably with a great many others in preferring the space segment of the game, to be released as an expansion.. only done better.. given todays technology.. the current version is a complete cop out.. this is clearly a case of .. either do it right.. or don't do it at all.. but.. if they do it properly.. i guarantee i will buy the game.. otherwise.. not a chance... i'll wait until they either fix it.. or another game does it.
Most mmorpgs I've played usually lacks one thing in common: Optional content. Preferrably something different in gameplay. I hate the "only raids as end game"-model like WoW. In this light the SW:StarFox looks great to me since I expected this game to be character based only, no space untill expansions.
Also I think it's better to release the game with complete character based gameplay, and add more in-depth space later. No need to postpone the launch for something that can be added later and has nothing to do with the basic on-the-ground gameplay.
More options means more to do which is always good in mmorpgs. No one's forcing you to do it. I dont expect some other optional content to be left out just because there's one pub full of people who dont like it.
I agree, optional content is good. I think there WILL be a crowd of players not used to space-combat who will play the mini-game a lot and really rave about it. That sort of ACTUAL feed-back in addition to the more die-hard SC fans is probably going to be the tipping difference to deciding to actually make a full space expansion if ever it does go ahead. So from that pov it's far from a bad thing even if it's not exactly a great thing.
On a positive note though, having player ships and player ships acting as your house, ala kotor 1 and 2, is a great, logical move for BW. Any other approach wouldnt have made as much sense...and they are in at launch, so wtg.
But I have said it before and I'll say it again...what is really interesting about TOR is WHERE they will take the game after launch. I am HOPING that they realize they can never add the voice acting/rpg story lines to a live, up and running game, at any kind of pace that will even remotely keep up with players in a cost effective manner. Therefore I am looking to them to start adding sandbox elements where players can create their own content in participate in meta systems that arent so linear and scripted (like the TOR version of a real GCW, etc.)
To that end I would like to see player cities or space stations, and a real space developed that uses JTL as a departure point and adds in the MMO elements, like capital ships, player starbases, etc. that SOE never managed to pull off.
Clearly you haven't been following this game at all if you think thats a possibility.
This will not be a sandbox, this will not have unlimted customisation on lots of aspects, this will not be the game lots of people hoped SWG would be. It's be a tightly focused RPG which if you have patient friends you can co-op with.
I have no problems with that buts lets stop pretending it's something it's not, it does noone any favors at the end of the day.
From what I have seen If you have been following this game the devs say that they are making the best game they can on the budget they have that will allow it to get released in a resonable time span but, they are willing to look at about anything for the future. This all comes from dev interveiws and really if SOE could pull it off for so long, despite popular belief SWG is still up and running, then Bioware can do much better.
Most people make the leap that since they are no longer interested in galaxies that the game is dead, It is alive and well actually just not the game we all loved at the begining but,the fact remains is is past the 7 year mark. Bioware's take on the Star Wars universe is already shapeing up to be a much better game then soe's version and it is not even released yet. Anything is possible when you have the ablity to write the source code. I have faith that Bioware can and will do a better Star Wars style game then SOE ever could.
Not to be a critic or star wars fanboi, but it says you can get a carbonite slab with a prisoner in it. When Han Solo gets put into one they talk about how its not designed for this pur[ose and he may die. Yet, 1000 years ago it was common?
actually cloud city had quite a number of carbonite slabs for the containment of tibanna gas. the mechanic itself was not that weird, just the fact that han was quite solid compared to that gas
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
At this point it seems like TOR is going to be made up of about 1 part WoW-style MMO and 2 parts BioWare's usual single-player features in a multiplayer space--any MMO purists who don't like the sound of that probably should have stopped looking forward to it a long time ago. Me? I'll be playing on Day 1.
GonesoloCity of Heroes CorrespondentMemberPosts: 70
I so hope they expand the space options.
Additional ships would be great and more "free form" space flight would be a welcome addition. But as already stated SWG lauched with no space content so I'm hopeful the future is bright for Space travel in TOR
I think the Star Fox thing is a really great idea. This is not a space combat game, but it is a game that needs space combat (because of the IP). Making space combat a 'mini game' is somethnig that I always thought SWG should have done. It got a lot of shit for that, and even after space combat was added to that game a lot of people still labeled it 'not star warsy enough'... But it never would have gotten that label if they had a space mini-game from the start.
Also if you watch the first scene in Episode 3, it feels a lot like a Star Fox game. I think that Star Fox type play could recreate the Star Wars feel better than the traditional TIE FIGHTER game controls could, easily. It could make you feel like more action is going on. In SWG's space combat and in the old tie fighter games you felt like space was vast and empty. In the Star Wars movies space felt crowded with ships and action. You just cant recreate that without the triggers/scripting that Star Fox type gameplay has to offer.
I bet they will add more functionality to it eventually.
That being said, I think this game is bland and I won't be playing it. That has nothing to do with their choices about space combat though... Smart move IMO.
Comments
Agreed, when they announced the on rails space combat it was for me one of the most dissapointing announcements.
so then thewy are looking into makeing space flight free form and multiplayer and its entirely based of community feedback!!!
are they trying to say they havnt been reading their own forums on this exact topic.. i can certainly recall seeing a good amount of closed threads due to copacity of posting now im not mathamatical genius but that sounds like an aweful lot of community feedback asking for more than just a rail shooter..
ok so its too late to enhance the space before launch. reading this has restored alittle of my faithe in biowares ability to produce an mmo. not much though.
also i cant say im overly impressed with the whole instanced ship business. is this their way of saying houseing is instanced and how will items in your ships be placed.. are there going to be those rediculous item slots that you have in lord of the rings or is it going to be like swg where you can posistion things where you like??
if its more swg then i suppose the whole instanced scenario isnt so terrrible.
and lastly... if your traveling with your friends your own ship miraculously travels with you????
yea like that isnt going to chuck a spanner or two in the whole works.
one thing i am fairly certain of is that the rail space shooter ahs definately gotta go!! its just not rocking many peoples boats at all..
i strongly sugest bioware devs read their own forums and get a true feel for community feedback on their space combat.
Think of it as cost for fuel and you'll come to accept it more that way.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
thats exactly what it is. if you watch the space combat demonstration from pax east, when they select the space battle, you can see in the menu "fuel cost 51."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf36KlvhmKI @about 1:25a
as for how your ship gets to a planet without you if you travel with a friend on their ship, why couldn't companions fly it there
Autopilot?
don't know about you, but i don't want this flying my ship.
Woah, ease off on the aggro there...Did I say I expected them to ditch one system at this point and code a whole new one? What I did say is Im not clear how, or why, they went with railspace in the first place, given the LONG LONG history of xwing games and the generally well received JTL. I distrust that whole developpment decision making cycle. And for them to come out and say playerbase feedback will drive future development makes me ask teh obvious question as to why it didnt drive current development with something so obviously dubious as SINGLE player railspace in an MMO.
As others have pointed out SWG didnt have space at launch....or player cities, or mounts, or vehicles, or a jedi system, or a host of other things that they feverishly worked to add.
I would be PERFECTLY happy if they would just come out and say space is out of scope for launch, but will most likely/definitely be an expansion within 6-12 months...a full fledged, space experience. Because railspace does nothing for me. It might as well not even be there, as far as Im concerned...
+∞
Dude, you TOTALLY made my night! Seriously, i've been working on my final project for my DBMS class that is due at midnight tonight, finished biology yesterday and c++ on monday, and i'm wound so freakin tight I could snap!
That actually made me laugh out loud
Yeah I played rogue squadron, and Ive also watched my kid play lego star wars on the xbox, and that gameplay reminded me alot of those early rail type games (rebel assault).
I can tell you that I got about 1% of the enjoyment and replayability out of those games as I did Xwing, Tiefighter, Xwing v Tiefighter, and Xwing Alliance...
lol
lol your welcome
Well, SWG launched with space and it was amazing right? Shooting things in space at release in SWG was great.
I think it would be GREAT if down the line, they released an Open shooter like Xwingvstiefigther, that was seperate. They said the ships can be customized (it's in the tech).
If this game does good, we could see a whole bunch of great stuff added too.
Bioware has always made the same game.
Their "raid shooter" is the exact same as KOTOR 1's Speed Racer mini-game.
The day they makie a Space Simulator like X-Wing.... is the day that its not Bioware making the game's expansions anymore.
Sounds like a lot of bias to me.
Baldur's Gate was a world of difference from ME and ME2 to me.
Neverwinter Nights with its phenomenal tooling set offered something different from a KOTOR and BG as well.
So, yes, these games have a typical Bioware quality to them, but no, those are not the same games, not even in mechanics.
You might as well say that Rockstar has always made the same game, or that Bethesda or Valve have always made the same game (come to think of it, that might probably be more true).
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
First the fact they put in a housing system in form of space ship is great, thanks guys.
The crew concept is also great to me.
The short sighting of the features is very disappointing tough. First you would expect in such an environement to be able to buy a pletora of ship type, maybe even build them or at least order them; and naturally custumizing/repair them since its pretty commun in every SW movie or whatever, and was always a deciding moment in a lot of stories.
Second once more its nice the space battle are in, but it seam to fall very short.
Just hope it will a bit more for you for futur development, but i tend to think that what is not done at start will never be done later from experince, so its a bit of a shame to me. I wish you guys would have seen the potential of a space mmo like Eve with a real character handling, too bad for you i guess; because i'm sure that would have sky rocket your game to an other level without a doupt.
Most mmorpgs I've played usually lacks one thing in common: Optional content. Preferrably something different in gameplay. I hate the "only raids as end game"-model like WoW. In this light the SW:StarFox looks great to me since I expected this game to be character based only, no space untill expansions.
Also I think it's better to release the game with complete character based gameplay, and add more in-depth space later. No need to postpone the launch for something that can be added later and has nothing to do with the basic on-the-ground gameplay.
More options means more to do which is always good in mmorpgs. No one's forcing you to do it. I dont expect some other optional content to be left out just because there's one pub full of people who dont like it.
the only way i can see me even getting this game, is if they implement full PVP space combat, xwing v tie fighter style.. (though given the time period difference.. not those actual ships!!) a rail shooter browser based minigame.... really doesnt mesh well with Star Wars.. it just looks like an 'ad hoc' addon that really hasnt had much work done on it... im probably with a great many others in preferring the space segment of the game, to be released as an expansion.. only done better.. given todays technology.. the current version is a complete cop out.. this is clearly a case of .. either do it right.. or don't do it at all.. but.. if they do it properly.. i guarantee i will buy the game.. otherwise.. not a chance... i'll wait until they either fix it.. or another game does it.
I agree, optional content is good. I think there WILL be a crowd of players not used to space-combat who will play the mini-game a lot and really rave about it. That sort of ACTUAL feed-back in addition to the more die-hard SC fans is probably going to be the tipping difference to deciding to actually make a full space expansion if ever it does go ahead. So from that pov it's far from a bad thing even if it's not exactly a great thing.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
From what I have seen If you have been following this game the devs say that they are making the best game they can on the budget they have that will allow it to get released in a resonable time span but, they are willing to look at about anything for the future. This all comes from dev interveiws and really if SOE could pull it off for so long, despite popular belief SWG is still up and running, then Bioware can do much better.
Most people make the leap that since they are no longer interested in galaxies that the game is dead, It is alive and well actually just not the game we all loved at the begining but,the fact remains is is past the 7 year mark. Bioware's take on the Star Wars universe is already shapeing up to be a much better game then soe's version and it is not even released yet. Anything is possible when you have the ablity to write the source code. I have faith that Bioware can and will do a better Star Wars style game then SOE ever could.
actually cloud city had quite a number of carbonite slabs for the containment of tibanna gas. the mechanic itself was not that weird, just the fact that han was quite solid compared to that gas
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
so is it still "On Rails"? :P
I so hope they expand the space options.
Additional ships would be great and more "free form" space flight would be a welcome addition. But as already stated SWG lauched with no space content so I'm hopeful the future is bright for Space travel in TOR
I think the Star Fox thing is a really great idea. This is not a space combat game, but it is a game that needs space combat (because of the IP). Making space combat a 'mini game' is somethnig that I always thought SWG should have done. It got a lot of shit for that, and even after space combat was added to that game a lot of people still labeled it 'not star warsy enough'... But it never would have gotten that label if they had a space mini-game from the start.
Also if you watch the first scene in Episode 3, it feels a lot like a Star Fox game. I think that Star Fox type play could recreate the Star Wars feel better than the traditional TIE FIGHTER game controls could, easily. It could make you feel like more action is going on. In SWG's space combat and in the old tie fighter games you felt like space was vast and empty. In the Star Wars movies space felt crowded with ships and action. You just cant recreate that without the triggers/scripting that Star Fox type gameplay has to offer.
I bet they will add more functionality to it eventually.
That being said, I think this game is bland and I won't be playing it. That has nothing to do with their choices about space combat though... Smart move IMO.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.