What theory? Fact A + Fact B = Fact A+B. This is not a theory. These are plain and simple development facts that apply to all online games using zones and i dont need to be employed at ANET to know that.
GW2 world is not seamless. It has zones. Two facts. To get from one zone to another your information is passed from one server process to another. That in itself is a loading screen even if you as the end user do not see it since it might have only lasted a few miliseconds. If the zones incorporate vastly different entities your computer will have to swap out a large ammount of data. If your computer is too slow to do that you will see a loading screen. Programers can account for that by making a preload area in a zone thus reducing the load time. Once you enter that area your PC starts loading the next area. But the moment you step on the activator you will still have to get loaded into the new area by the server process. This is the whole point of zoned games. Otherwise the world is/would be seamless.
Now is this clear enough for you or do i have to draw you a picture?
Also an instance is a zone. That doesnt mean all zones are instances. Fruit isnt only apples.
Then from what you said here GW2 might have background loading and you will not have load screens you see between zones.
Guess what WoW has zones too (ashenvale is a zone, The Shire is a zone in LOTRO), in fact all MMOs have zones.
So unless you have a video where a person goes from one zone to another zone (and not entering the capital cities), then you have no facts about GW2 having a load screen (that we will see) between zones.
So where is the video so we can see your facts? Or do you just want to keep quoting how you make video games from your extensive knowledge from all the MMOs you have designed?
As for the zone and instance thing we are talking about two different things here, unless like I said you really believe GW1 and EQ had the same design.
Originally posted by impiro
Uuh, I think there is a video where u actually do see some kind of loading screen. It was discussed before and it is not sure if it will be like that when the game releases. But I can tell you with quite some certainty that there will be zones. Also, it has been made very clear by Anet that a least the personal storyline and the www-pvp will involve instancing. Also Anet said in some interview something about the size of zones if I recall correctly.
I was actually surprised by this whole OP. I have followed GW2 quite closely and am looking forward to it a lot, and I always knew/suspected that the GW2 world wouldn't be 100% seamless.
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
If you're asking if GW2 will be like WoW where you can walk from zone to zone without a loading screen in between then the answer will be: No it will not.
The different zones in GW2 are divided by portals where you will experience a loading screen as you pass from zone to zone. That said, the individual zones themselves are supposed to be quite big (15 minutes continuous running in a straight line) so you'd have a lot of content packed into one zone with a lot to do.
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
I for one, am also quite pleasantly surprised with your post and stance on this, Master10k. It seems a very reasonable and wise take on the matter
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
We understand that while it's more of a persistent world than Guild Wars, there will still be loading screens between the big zones. About how much time will a normal player spend going through loading screens as they play?
[EricFlannum] It really depends on the player in question, but we try to pace the game such that a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time. That being said loads are for the most part pretty infrequent unless you are prurposefully bouncing back and forth between maps.
I can tell from this thread alone, there's going to be a lot of unhappy people when GW2 is released simply because they are refusing to see what this game will be even though it's right in front of their faces.
I think it's about time for everyone to realize there will be loading from zone to zone despite what you read or heard in the past. And quite frankly, that shouldn't make or break the game. Just think of it as the same as ToR when you go from planet to planet.
We understand that while it's more of a persistent world than Guild Wars, there will still be loading screens between the big zones. About how much time will a normal player spend going through loading screens as they play?
[EricFlannum] It really depends on the player in question, but we try to pace the game such that a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time. That being said loads are for the most part pretty infrequent unless you are prurposefully bouncing back and forth between maps.
We understand that while it's more of a persistent world than Guild Wars, there will still be loading screens between the big zones. About how much time will a normal player spend going through loading screens as they play?
[EricFlannum] It really depends on the player in question, but we try to pace the game such that a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time. That being said loads are for the most part pretty infrequent unless you are prurposefully bouncing back and forth between maps.
Of course the guy is softening it up by saying that "a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time" but that doesn't change the gist of it and it will be similar to AoC's world in that respect; all zones divided by loading screens which is a damn pitty.
Every time you encounter a loading screen in the open world, god strangles an immersion kitten V_V
Anyway, here's to hoping that zones will be MASSIVE as that might alleviate the pain somewhat.
I can tell from this thread alone, there's going to be a lot of unhappy people when GW2 is released simply because they are refusing to see what this game will be even though it's right in front of their faces.
I think it's about time for everyone to realize there will be loading from zone to zone despite what you read or heard in the past. And quite frankly, that shouldn't make or break the game. Just think of it as the same as ToR when you go from planet to planet.
This. If it means loading screens for more active combat and an ever-changing environment, I'm in.
We understand that while it's more of a persistent world than Guild Wars, there will still be loading screens between the big zones. About how much time will a normal player spend going through loading screens as they play?
[EricFlannum] It really depends on the player in question, but we try to pace the game such that a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time. That being said loads are for the most part pretty infrequent unless you are prurposefully bouncing back and forth between maps.
I knew the PvP zone would be instanced (all 4 zones), and the story stuff, but portals to every other zone? I guess it really depends on the size of the zone. If the size of a zone from portal to portal is the normal size of zones in GW1, I'd say that's a big blargh against the game.
Then again, if we are talking entire regions of the map between portals, that's quite different. Like all of Ascalon, or all of Kryta, or all of the desert + islands, that'd be a good bit for one zone. But I sure hope it's not like AoC with a smallish zone and LOTS of shards for that zone.
I can tell from this thread alone, there's going to be a lot of unhappy people when GW2 is released simply because they are refusing to see what this game will be even though it's right in front of their faces.
To be fair (and plenty of fans are indeed guilty of this), this is fueled as well by nay-sayers, who make absurd claims about what it is supposed this game will be, only to gleefully shoot down the strawmen in thread after thread.
This is why we as a community can seem a bit slavish to citations and quotes, because I never want to take it for granted that GW2 will be this way or that way unless I have a quote or footage (or both) to back me up.
That said, what we tolerate as being immersion-breaking varies among us, and loading screens are not among my top 10. /shrug
Originally posted by Stydus Originally posted by Master10K
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
*snip*
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised. That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
That is exactly what he was asking for. The character walks from one zone to another. We can see the portal. We can see the character walk into the portal. We can see the load screen. The end. There is no discussion. This is known fact. I love what I know of this game, and this is not a problem for me. But we do know there will be load screens when walking from one zone into another. This is not speculation.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
That is exactly what he was asking for. The character walks from one zone to another. We can see the portal. We can see the character walk into the portal. We can see the load screen. The end. There is no discussion. This is known fact. I love what I know of this game, and this is not a problem for me. But we do know there will be load screens when walking from one zone into another. This is not speculation.
Actually that portal is the one that leads to and from Hoelbrak, a capitol city, which he already mentioned we all already know about. He asked for a link that shows someone going between 2 zones with one of them not being a capitol city.
Was from another thread that i walked into, and saw this one connected the two.
But none of us know exactly why that portal is there, we have not seen anyone leave a zone yet. Right now it is just speculation that we are going to be going through a portal and load screen between zones. Until we actually see it in game, it is just a theory!
Why is this even an issue? No game world is seamless.
There are always 'seams' that you'll see. Be they moments of system lag where you enter one zone that isn't rendered yet (oblivion) or a clear zone wall that you touch then port to the next 'zone'. No matter the game you aren't sitting there with all of the world textures loaded up all the time...except maybe with minecraft....mmaaaaybe. If you were running around in Oblivion, for example, and the entirety of the world was constantly rendered your computer would explode. There's just too much stuff.
So might a game not be -instanced-? sure! But -seamless-? No. There are always seams that you're going to see in one form or another.
Also: Let's say you have....oh, I dunno....another plane of existance that's full of demons or some crap. Are you going to ride a horse there? Nope! You're going to jump through a portal.
How about this: You're on one side of the world and on the complete opposite side of the world is a place you want/need to go to. Would you rather A: Spend a few hours riding over there or B: Jump through a super magical portal and be there in a load screen?
How about if there was some castle in the sky that you needed to go kill some crap on? Would you rather A: Have flying mounts or B: Jump through a portal and be there in a load time?
What you people are talking about with the idea of one gigantic, contiguous land mass really hand cuffs developers. Think about....let's say Fallout. Ok, so you have a relatively small area that has oodles of things to find by exploring. But! If developers want to put a dungeon or something in they're pretty much stuck putting in things that 'should' be there....that means vaults. Ever take the time to notice that almost every vault looks the same? You same people would complain about that in an mmo. 'OMG EVERY GOD DAMN DUNGEON LOOKS THE SAME!!!!'
Also, it took the devs behind Fallout all that time to fill up one map and while there is a lot of stuff on the map, it's also very small. This is the dilemma with making maps. Example time!
Let's say I have 8 months to actually build my zones. I can either A. make one or two relatively small zones and fill them with oodles of things for people to find or B. Make a dozen or more zones of varying sizes that has considerably less to explore, but it gives me far more options to expand on later.
If I go with option A. people will be happy initially, but because I don't have a lot of room things are going to feel VERY cramped VERY fast. So I can either try to rush out more zones, or I can create 'rooms' - or instanced versions of the same map to handle my player population.
Well, it took me three months plus a month for revision and testing to get out those first two zones that were packed with 'interesting' things for people to find....but now that I've got people playing my game I can't really take that amount of time anymore.
Meanwhile the other me in a parallel dimension decided to go with option B and created a somewhat modular method for creating zones and content. So that means after release I can push out a few more zones, but then go back and add things that may be missing and still have time to create new zones. This other me is very pleased and while the finnicky explorers that wouldn't likely stick around past the two month mark anyway aren't happy about it, everybody else loves it.
TL:DR
A large portion of you people always find something to complain hardcore about in mmos. If it's not the perceived hindrance of 'zones' then it's how bland instances are or how mundane quests are or that there aren't enough quests. There are really only a few things that ever need to be nit-picked over: Variety of abilities, smoothness of animations (especially combat), balance of combat (not just pvp) and variety in end-game content. Everything else is mostly unimportant.
As long as a portal makes sense or there are few load screens i don't care about a world being seemless. If the portal takes you to another demension or the world your in is huge then i'm okay. I'd prefer to avoid loading every few mins.
It will really depend on how many times you'll see a loading screen in a given period of play. Personally myself you should only see 1 every hour or there abouts. But thats just my personal preference.
But one thing i would like is what appears to be seemless, where a world loads as you walk. A good computer can usually bring load times down to just a bit of sluggish movement. THis way your never.
Walk walk walk stop...wait...walk walk walk...stop...wait...walk walk walk. All that stopping can get annoying if your traveling long distances.
Myself i'd prefer
Walk walk walk slow down...walk walk walk slow down...walk walk stop..wait. Rinse repeat.
To me it's more important how many times i'm going to have to load and wait rather then wether they are there or not. Theres no way at least tech wise i'd ever be able to load an entire MMO game world. So i do'nt expect no load zones but i'd like to avoid as many load screens as i can help as those are stops in gameplay that break the smoothness of it.
If your are forced into loading there are creative ways of doing. Like ME elevators (bet you didn't know they were there for loading purposes :P) or flying through space or seeing a guy walking across the landscape or what have you.
In my experience the less a gamer is interacting the less interested they are in the game itself. don't take them out of the action unless you absolutely have to for story or loading.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
? I see a lot of confusion about the OP topic. A bit curious, the discussion has been held I think various times already on the GW2Guru forums and the overall opinion there seems to be that Tyria is zoned, which I thought myself to be the case as well.
Is GW2 more like WoW where there are no real zones you just pass from area to area rather seemlessly? Or is it more like the old EQ where you hit a zone wall between areas and you have a short loading time?
It's not seamless. There are portals between zones as of the demo build and there will be loading zones when passing between them. Each capital city has a portal you need to pass through, as will your home instance. There are certain areas inside capital cities that have portals to. Eg. the Royal Palace and Senate in Divinity's Reach.
There's also a picture (samelike portal as seen from this video) that shows a portal between 2 zones (east of Beetletun):
Personally, I hadn't expected it at first, but it isn't something I mind much as long as the loading times between zones isn't too long.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There's also a picture (samelike portal as seen from this video) that shows a portal between 2 zones (east of Beetletun):
Personally, I hadn't expected it at first, but it isn't something I mind much as long as the loading times between zones isn't too long.
Keep in mind that that's from the demo, and could simply be a way to stop players from moving from one chunk into an incomplete one. A temporary 'you can't go this way' indicator rather than an actual instance gate. Myself I think it was that, and that it looks like an instance gate was just a poor choice. If you look at the environment surrounding it, it doesn't look like it would have a gate there naturally, it just doesn't fit.
Think about it. If that was there naturally, it would look ugly and unprofessional, look at the amount of blank space at the bottom-right of the gate. It just looks like something that was slapped there to signify an invisible barrier.
Also the game will be more seamless than people think, but not completely. Check out my wall of text on page 5.
Originally posted by romanator0 Originally posted by Dubhlaith
Originally posted by Stydus
Originally posted by Master10K
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
*snip*
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
That is exactly what he was asking for. The character walks from one zone to another. We can see the portal. We can see the character walk into the portal. We can see the load screen. The end. There is no discussion. This is known fact. I love what I know of this game, and this is not a problem for me. But we do know there will be load screens when walking from one zone into another. This is not speculation. Actually that portal is the one that leads to and from Hoelbrak, a capitol city, which he already mentioned we all already know about. He asked for a link that shows someone going between 2 zones with one of them not being a capitol city.
Ah. I see that. Thanks.
Ridiculous norn and their outdoor layouts.
I could swear I have seen a video of someone walking between regular zones. I would have no idea where to start looking for it, though. Of course, maybe I was wrong about that one too.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Comments
Wrong. TOR will not have portals that seperate zone from zone on any of the planets, they are seemless.
Then from what you said here GW2 might have background loading and you will not have load screens you see between zones.
Guess what WoW has zones too (ashenvale is a zone, The Shire is a zone in LOTRO), in fact all MMOs have zones.
So unless you have a video where a person goes from one zone to another zone (and not entering the capital cities), then you have no facts about GW2 having a load screen (that we will see) between zones.
So where is the video so we can see your facts? Or do you just want to keep quoting how you make video games from your extensive knowledge from all the MMOs you have designed?
As for the zone and instance thing we are talking about two different things here, unless like I said you really believe GW1 and EQ had the same design.
Link to the video that has a character going from one zone to another please! And do not link the capital city loading, we have known about that for a long time, and it does not prove that zones are going to have a load screen that we will see. Also I have never said that it is going to be 100% seamless, I know that they have instances for the personal story and dungeons. But that does not mean that the zones are going to have a load screen we see when we go between zones.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
If you're asking if GW2 will be like WoW where you can walk from zone to zone without a loading screen in between then the answer will be: No it will not.
The different zones in GW2 are divided by portals where you will experience a loading screen as you pass from zone to zone. That said, the individual zones themselves are supposed to be quite big (15 minutes continuous running in a straight line) so you'd have a lot of content packed into one zone with a lot to do.
I for one, am also quite pleasantly surprised with your post and stance on this, Master10k. It seems a very reasonable and wise take on the matter
My brand new bloggity blog.
That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
We understand that while it's more of a persistent world than Guild Wars, there will still be loading screens between the big zones. About how much time will a normal player spend going through loading screens as they play?
[EricFlannum] It really depends on the player in question, but we try to pace the game such that a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time. That being said loads are for the most part pretty infrequent unless you are prurposefully bouncing back and forth between maps.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/irc-dev-chat-transcription-with-t12616.html?t=12616
I can tell from this thread alone, there's going to be a lot of unhappy people when GW2 is released simply because they are refusing to see what this game will be even though it's right in front of their faces.
I think it's about time for everyone to realize there will be loading from zone to zone despite what you read or heard in the past. And quite frankly, that shouldn't make or break the game. Just think of it as the same as ToR when you go from planet to planet.
thats it
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Yup. We can end the discussion right here.
Of course the guy is softening it up by saying that "a player is never required to go through multiple loads in a short period of time" but that doesn't change the gist of it and it will be similar to AoC's world in that respect; all zones divided by loading screens which is a damn pitty.
Every time you encounter a loading screen in the open world, god strangles an immersion kitten V_V
Anyway, here's to hoping that zones will be MASSIVE as that might alleviate the pain somewhat.
My brand new bloggity blog.
This. If it means loading screens for more active combat and an ever-changing environment, I'm in.
Personally I am still looking forward to this as an mmolite to play when nothing is happening in ToR.
That was supposed to be DC universes place, but a bunch of people who wont tell us their names stole it apparently... dunno if any of you have heard
Thank you!
I knew the PvP zone would be instanced (all 4 zones), and the story stuff, but portals to every other zone? I guess it really depends on the size of the zone. If the size of a zone from portal to portal is the normal size of zones in GW1, I'd say that's a big blargh against the game.
Then again, if we are talking entire regions of the map between portals, that's quite different. Like all of Ascalon, or all of Kryta, or all of the desert + islands, that'd be a good bit for one zone. But I sure hope it's not like AoC with a smallish zone and LOTS of shards for that zone.
To be fair (and plenty of fans are indeed guilty of this), this is fueled as well by nay-sayers, who make absurd claims about what it is supposed this game will be, only to gleefully shoot down the strawmen in thread after thread.
This is why we as a community can seem a bit slavish to citations and quotes, because I never want to take it for granted that GW2 will be this way or that way unless I have a quote or footage (or both) to back me up.
That said, what we tolerate as being immersion-breaking varies among us, and loading screens are not among my top 10. /shrug
It is in mine, but barely:
1. alien abductions
2. asteroid strikes / floodings / eartquakes / other natural disasters
3. house on fire
4. power outage
5. mum on the phone
6. being hungry
7. feeling dirty and wanting a shower + proper tooth brushing
8. needing to go out for cigarettes and / or coffee
9. phasing of public zones + a neat little interface to switch "dimensions" on the fly
10. world divided by loading screens
My brand new bloggity blog.
I still think the game will rock.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
That is exactly what he was asking for. The character walks from one zone to another. We can see the portal. We can see the character walk into the portal. We can see the load screen. The end. There is no discussion. This is known fact. I love what I know of this game, and this is not a problem for me. But we do know there will be load screens when walking from one zone into another. This is not speculation.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Actually that portal is the one that leads to and from Hoelbrak, a capitol city, which he already mentioned we all already know about. He asked for a link that shows someone going between 2 zones with one of them not being a capitol city.
Why is this even an issue? No game world is seamless.
There are always 'seams' that you'll see. Be they moments of system lag where you enter one zone that isn't rendered yet (oblivion) or a clear zone wall that you touch then port to the next 'zone'. No matter the game you aren't sitting there with all of the world textures loaded up all the time...except maybe with minecraft....mmaaaaybe. If you were running around in Oblivion, for example, and the entirety of the world was constantly rendered your computer would explode. There's just too much stuff.
So might a game not be -instanced-? sure! But -seamless-? No. There are always seams that you're going to see in one form or another.
Also: Let's say you have....oh, I dunno....another plane of existance that's full of demons or some crap. Are you going to ride a horse there? Nope! You're going to jump through a portal.
How about this: You're on one side of the world and on the complete opposite side of the world is a place you want/need to go to. Would you rather A: Spend a few hours riding over there or B: Jump through a super magical portal and be there in a load screen?
How about if there was some castle in the sky that you needed to go kill some crap on? Would you rather A: Have flying mounts or B: Jump through a portal and be there in a load time?
What you people are talking about with the idea of one gigantic, contiguous land mass really hand cuffs developers. Think about....let's say Fallout. Ok, so you have a relatively small area that has oodles of things to find by exploring. But! If developers want to put a dungeon or something in they're pretty much stuck putting in things that 'should' be there....that means vaults. Ever take the time to notice that almost every vault looks the same? You same people would complain about that in an mmo. 'OMG EVERY GOD DAMN DUNGEON LOOKS THE SAME!!!!'
Also, it took the devs behind Fallout all that time to fill up one map and while there is a lot of stuff on the map, it's also very small. This is the dilemma with making maps. Example time!
Let's say I have 8 months to actually build my zones. I can either A. make one or two relatively small zones and fill them with oodles of things for people to find or B. Make a dozen or more zones of varying sizes that has considerably less to explore, but it gives me far more options to expand on later.
If I go with option A. people will be happy initially, but because I don't have a lot of room things are going to feel VERY cramped VERY fast. So I can either try to rush out more zones, or I can create 'rooms' - or instanced versions of the same map to handle my player population.
Well, it took me three months plus a month for revision and testing to get out those first two zones that were packed with 'interesting' things for people to find....but now that I've got people playing my game I can't really take that amount of time anymore.
Meanwhile the other me in a parallel dimension decided to go with option B and created a somewhat modular method for creating zones and content. So that means after release I can push out a few more zones, but then go back and add things that may be missing and still have time to create new zones. This other me is very pleased and while the finnicky explorers that wouldn't likely stick around past the two month mark anyway aren't happy about it, everybody else loves it.
TL:DR
A large portion of you people always find something to complain hardcore about in mmos. If it's not the perceived hindrance of 'zones' then it's how bland instances are or how mundane quests are or that there aren't enough quests. There are really only a few things that ever need to be nit-picked over: Variety of abilities, smoothness of animations (especially combat), balance of combat (not just pvp) and variety in end-game content. Everything else is mostly unimportant.
As long as a portal makes sense or there are few load screens i don't care about a world being seemless. If the portal takes you to another demension or the world your in is huge then i'm okay. I'd prefer to avoid loading every few mins.
It will really depend on how many times you'll see a loading screen in a given period of play. Personally myself you should only see 1 every hour or there abouts. But thats just my personal preference.
But one thing i would like is what appears to be seemless, where a world loads as you walk. A good computer can usually bring load times down to just a bit of sluggish movement. THis way your never.
Walk walk walk stop...wait...walk walk walk...stop...wait...walk walk walk. All that stopping can get annoying if your traveling long distances.
Myself i'd prefer
Walk walk walk slow down...walk walk walk slow down...walk walk stop..wait. Rinse repeat.
To me it's more important how many times i'm going to have to load and wait rather then wether they are there or not. Theres no way at least tech wise i'd ever be able to load an entire MMO game world. So i do'nt expect no load zones but i'd like to avoid as many load screens as i can help as those are stops in gameplay that break the smoothness of it.
If your are forced into loading there are creative ways of doing. Like ME elevators (bet you didn't know they were there for loading purposes :P) or flying through space or seeing a guy walking across the landscape or what have you.
In my experience the less a gamer is interacting the less interested they are in the game itself. don't take them out of the action unless you absolutely have to for story or loading.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
? I see a lot of confusion about the OP topic. A bit curious, the discussion has been held I think various times already on the GW2Guru forums and the overall opinion there seems to be that Tyria is zoned, which I thought myself to be the case as well.
Ok, I found this: zoning? thread
Is GW2 more like WoW where there are no real zones you just pass from area to area rather seemlessly? Or is it more like the old EQ where you hit a zone wall between areas and you have a short loading time?
It's not seamless. There are portals between zones as of the demo build and there will be loading zones when passing between them. Each capital city has a portal you need to pass through, as will your home instance. There are certain areas inside capital cities that have portals to. Eg. the Royal Palace and Senate in Divinity's Reach.
There's also a picture (samelike portal as seen from this video) that shows a portal between 2 zones (east of Beetletun):
Personally, I hadn't expected it at first, but it isn't something I mind much as long as the loading times between zones isn't too long.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Zoning is cool. Anybody remember vanilla EQ? Gave me time to think about stuff. Now they have portals to give the illusion of not zoning? Even cooler!
Keep in mind that that's from the demo, and could simply be a way to stop players from moving from one chunk into an incomplete one. A temporary 'you can't go this way' indicator rather than an actual instance gate. Myself I think it was that, and that it looks like an instance gate was just a poor choice. If you look at the environment surrounding it, it doesn't look like it would have a gate there naturally, it just doesn't fit.
Think about it. If that was there naturally, it would look ugly and unprofessional, look at the amount of blank space at the bottom-right of the gate. It just looks like something that was slapped there to signify an invisible barrier.
Also the game will be more seamless than people think, but not completely. Check out my wall of text on page 5.
Didn't someone already link you to one (at 7:11) and yet you simply dismissed it as non-factual evidence of a static load screen between zones. There's even this video of a person trying to reach the Black Citadel, from the Human starter area and being blocked off by a zone portal (at 5:00), which will obviously come with a loading screen in the full version. So I don't know what anyone else can do, until the open beta arrives and you see it for yourself. Till then I advice you and anyone else just drop this and simple say that the game will have static load screens between every zone transition. If it does (which is likely) then you won't be disappointed and if it doesn't then you'll just be pleasantly surprised.
That's obviously not what he was asking for. A zone block marker and actually porting from zone to zone are two completely different things. He is saying that until we actually see people teleporting from zone to zone via a portal, everyone is merely speculating.
That is exactly what he was asking for. The character walks from one zone to another. We can see the portal. We can see the character walk into the portal. We can see the load screen. The end. There is no discussion. This is known fact. I love what I know of this game, and this is not a problem for me. But we do know there will be load screens when walking from one zone into another. This is not speculation.
Actually that portal is the one that leads to and from Hoelbrak, a capitol city, which he already mentioned we all already know about. He asked for a link that shows someone going between 2 zones with one of them not being a capitol city.
Ah. I see that. Thanks.
Ridiculous norn and their outdoor layouts.
I could swear I have seen a video of someone walking between regular zones. I would have no idea where to start looking for it, though. Of course, maybe I was wrong about that one too.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?