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So, after (maybe) seeing the SW jedi vid and playing Rift, how is the proclaimed 'great' year of MMO
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Well GW2 is based a on a lot of movement. Defensive skills and abilities, such as the dodge, were designed to use up more energy. Offensive abilities and skills use up less energy. They have gotten some inspiration from FPS games. Again, if that is not yours or others cup of tea then you won't favor it obviously. From what I've seen, TOR goes for a more traditional mmo combat experience with some other added features such as the cover mechanics (which I like but wished they could have incorporated into all of the classes in their combat). Nothing wrong with that approach either, just depends on what you, the player, prefers.
GW2 has the whole 1-9 hotkey set up, so to me its a wow/eq like game... No amount of dodging or running around will change that.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Heh, I haven't read the whole thread but I'd actually like to know who started it.
This is not a game.
It wouldn't happen so much if some TOR fans wouldn't bash GW2 to make their game seem better. (Not pointing fingers, simply stating what happened to the thread)
Too true! I started off by saying nothing out there is very different from SWTOR and got consumed in the debate about whether or not that's true. Which was further derailed by GW 2 vs SWTOR, I wasn't really trying to make that direct, sole comparison until I got dragged into doing so.
Anyway.
The vast majority of people that have actually played SWTOR at events have said they enjoyed the way it played. Some developers try very, very hard to doctor their footage or to ONLY show footage of people who know what they're doing. Others (Bioware) want to give a truly honest represenation of what is going on. No smoke and mirrors here.
Most of the gameplay footage out there is from community events and recorded from random people playing the game for the first time. It doesn't show anything different than what is on the market now or will be on the market in the near future.
Grats you just continued this argument by at least another 3 pages.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Ok Ok, calm down and read this - http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/my-thief-gameplay-experience-pax-t14538.html?t=14538&highlight=Thief+Gameplay
It's my favourite analysis of GW2 gameplay but after this, I wish not to hear of GW2 in this thread for another 6 pages IS THAT CLEAR? I kid of course.
This is not a game.
I'm not bashing GW 2 for the sake of SWTOR. I'm bashing GW 2 because it needs to be criticized. There is nothing about the games combat that is anything drastically different than what is on the market.
This whole thing started because GW2 kiddies didn't like me saying that GW 2 (among OTHER GAMES) is not any different that TOR in terms of combat mechanics. Let me recreate my short list
WoW
Rift
Tera
GW 2
None of these games is really all that drastically different in terms of how combat works from how it works in TOR. Somehow, people took the mention of GW 2 as a direct, sole attack at the game. I didn't intend on getting into that here, but since they started it I decided to really point out how it's not any different. Like I'm trying to insult these fan kiddies personally, right.
The ONLY game I mention that is notably different in terms of combat is Tera and even then....
You can parry and still take damage but it will be greatly reduced, but you can also completely dodge or block attacks. You can see this even in the Taral V videos. SWTORs combat is much more immersive, you don't see the same exact moves 10 times over, you have finishers to some moves and the character actually acknowledges the other enemies around them. The combat is synchronized too and flows extremely well.
Just look at GW2s combat, you have a bunch of overly flashy abilities repeated countless times over in the same fashion. My preferred class, the Thief, just watch the video, how many times do you see the same few moves repeated? and the worst part about that is that the Thiefs bar is compeltely maxed out in skills already, whereas you can pick and choose how many total skills you can use for SWTOR.
SWTOR has moved ahead, maybe not in the sense other games are, but GW2 isn't that much of a leap forward.
In my eyes for MMO combat, DCUO > TERA > GW2 > SWTOR > WoW. Thats how I see it in terms of combat scale. DCUO is on one end of the spectrum, WoW is on the other end of the spectrum. Everything in the middle is a matter of taste.
GW2 is in the middle because it still does some positional combat like TERA but still uses the same basic targeting and ability mechanics of WoW. DCUO uses a very reactive pace of combat that revolves around attacks and counter attacks, and TERA is absolutely based on positional combat. SWTOR has a lot of positional combat, cover, parrying, blocking and immersive combat, but only certain classes can roll and dodge to cover, and only some classes can actively parry and block blasters and melee with a lightsaber, so its not an equal opportunity mechanic like other games have.
With that said, All of these games, whether more or less active, require strategy to be good at, so to say one isn't good where another is would be like saying a steak is better than a hamburger. Its all a matter of taste.
Looking like I will really enjoy the journey to max level over 2-3 months, as I did with Rift, then with end-game consisting of grinding the same dungeon/scenario over and over and playing the same warfront over over in pursuit of a different shade of purple item, I'd probably opt to be water-boarded instead. Thats what I suspect. I also suspect that what we've seen comprises 80% of most of the general finish on the game.
I really enjoyed KOTOR and I am sure I will enjoy SWTOR, but there doesn't seem to be much beyond another pretty themepark with some fun single-player-esque lobby-system inorganic rides that are potentially a re-skin of rides I've already taken.
Sure Bioware is trying to bolt-on some semblance of shoe-box PvP, and there are hopes and vague comments on something more meaningful, but that is yet to be seen.
If Bioware cant appeal to the PvP and PvEvP crowd, I predict that many fans will love SWTOR, but that millions will find it to be another transient game, leaving the sustained subscribership to SWTOR to match that of most other mainstream mmorpgs, being 200-300k 6-months to a year out. By that point, Bioware will have broken even and relying on their intimate fan-base will continue to make income just like the rest.
That still leaves millions of mmorpg enthusiasts without a long-term more organic mmorpg for another prolonged period of time.
I dunno how people take caps as anger. It's emphatic emphasis :P
Annnnywho...
Reading that post made my eyes bleed. The guy really needs to brush up on his grammar and sentence structure, unless English is his second language. That doesn't appear to be the case, but not the point.
From what I gathered from the review I'm not really seeing anything super interesting. He used the abilities of his class to fight a mob and not die. There is nothing game-specific here tbh. I mean, he could be talking about any game. The only reason we know he's talking about GW 2 is because that's a GW 2 forum. Almost any game can design similar skills, but I'll give kudos to ANet for doing it. Not for doing it first, but for being a recent brand-name developer to make some interesting skills.
2moons (Dekaron) has some similar types of abilities. Aion has some similar types of abilities. None of these have a self heal, but to be honest? I find self heals that you can use while in combat to be destructive. And from this review it honestly looks like some classes are going to be able to dance around all over the place and get a few ticks of a heal in at the same time. That's just personal opinion and it's really only a concern if it works that way in PvP too.
As for TOR
Try taking a look around for some actual demo videos by people who know what they're doing with the classes. There is a recent one that I remembered being quite impressed with, but I really don't feel like trying to find it.
Um. It happens both ways. I would add it happens between every games. And it doesn't really excuse the bad behaviour, nevertheless entertaining, that is bashing.
To be honest I don't think that the PvP crowed is all that. I consider myself someone who PvPs a lot, but they already confirmed Objective open world PvP and BGs.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Unfortunately for DCUO, it's type of combat doesn't quite work in pvp. Once one person gets the upper hand on you, its hard to get yourself back. Sometimes its actually quite luck-based if you are able to parry or break out of someone's string of attacks (and WTH is up with giving Two-face such ridiculously crazy I-win buttons anyway?).
I would say DCUO and TERA are on the same level, GW2 is an amalgamation of TERA gameplay and SWTOR gameplay. The happy medium that allows traditional players to stand around and do as little dodging as possible but also allows veterans to excel by actually using what is available to them. I believe the saying is "VERY Easy to learn, relatively hard to master".
This is not a game.
Apart from a few missing words, which my brain automatically fills in for me, I think his grammar was okay for a person whose native language is not english.
As for cool looking SWTOR vids, rarely see them around just like I rarely see cool looking GW2 vids. There are only two GW2 vids I consider cool and totally exemplify the potential that Anet has put into GW2 and I can't remember how to find them...
This is not a game.
Tera and GW2 both strive away *a lot* from how combat works in Tor. I won't really mention how combat in Tera works since I believe it's pretty obvious that the game relies more on getting your hands to work rather than sheer numbers and everything is more reliant on player rather than gear. However, many people seem a bit uneducated in regards to GW2's combat just because you are able to "click your enemy" so here is as far as I know:
•There is no holy trinity
•Due to the above the aggro system works vastly different as there are is no "taunt" or aggro raising skills. For that matter, staying alive (or dying for that matter) is mostly up to you and not the healer or tank
•Both melee and ranged characters can attack at will which means you don't need a target to fire your ability, furthermore all melee attacks work with collision exactly like in Tera, you do your skills/abilities and if the enemy is in range and radius of your weapon then he gets hit; due to this dodging works also like Tera, you have to be outside the range or radius of the enemy's weapon to avoid being hit and is not dependant on any percentage, for that reason they implemented the barrel roll to assist you with dodging
•Combat is designed to be tactical; items in the enviroment can be used as weapons, body position can affect skills, and skills which allies use can interact with the player to create new effects (fire wall+arrows or fire wall+whirlwind attack and many other combinations which provide different effects such as stun etc.). Even what is done at the edge of death can change the outcome of the fight dramatically
•Skill chains (once you do a skill another one becomes available)
•Diversity in skills even between players of the same class, skills change depending on what weapon you hold or what attunement you got (for elementalists)
•For the sake of mentioning, an assassin class that does not rely on combo points which is something that vastly limits the gameplay of said class
I think DCUO worked rather well in PvP, they've done a lot of work on it, some things I like, but ultimately balance is still off. A skillful player should be able to destroy one that doesn't know what they're doing, and for the most part I feel, in legends, they've balanced Bane, Robin, and Harley to manageable levels, though Catwoman and Two Face are another story. I think they have something with the combat here, but, its SOE, their focus isn't really on the quality of gameplay so much as how many people are playing.
TERA is more akin to Phantasy Star, just with more choices in abilities. Good system, and fun, but ultimately repetitive for PvE.
GW2 is definitely the bridge between these two styles, TERA and SWTOR, about as much as SWTOR would be a bridge to GW2 and WoW. In that sense SWTOR, in my eyes, is an enhancement of WoWs system, not a perversion of it, instead of keeping the same old everything, they've made some very interesting choices that increases the need for alternative strategies.
I feel you're correct in saying that GW2 will be easy to learn but tough to master in the sense that GWs is all about Skill decks essentially. Being able to place your set amount of skills and then utilizing those limited skills to their full potential is really one of the things I like about Guild Wars systems. Its not to say its a better system, its just to say its different, and a matter of taste.
Saw what i wanted to see, completely indifferent after watching the 91 minute video (and the 120 minute video too)
doesnt change anything as far as what i think of swtor,
will be preordering as planned.
Horrbile. It looks likde both of these companies went and made F***ing MMOS. Who knew!?
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Wait, they made MMO's where you can f**k? Is that like an alternate leveling path? Gotta wonder about the talent trees and specs
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
ummm...it's Bioware..... Dragon Age ring a bell?
Seriously, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
Remember that scene where they stab the player with a toxin that no one really cared about? I bet you could sleep with that chick that seemed to like the player so much.
This is not a game.
A single-player RPG that we dont have to pay $15/month for.
Maybe she sucked the toxin out....
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Well I am not sure that we are getting SW-TOR this year. I keep hearing dates that say yes and say no. So that leave that question in limbo. If I go off of what I seen with rift and nothing else, I think were in for more of the same as last year. Another year of crudy games with no depth.