What will be the measure to say if this game fails or not?
If they can't keep 350k subs (for an undisclosed amount of time), they've failed. That's staright from the horses mouth.
Just 350k subscribers? They shouldn't have a problem hitting that number and maintaining it.
The definition of what A developr thinks is a success and what the industry in general thinks is a success is rather different. Then there is what the fans and players would concider a success as well. If I remember right, either EA or BioWare said that 500K sustained subscriptions would net them a decent profit "nothing to write home about" or some such, but still decent.
Of course there's that, there is a huge difference in how each body judges success. I was just pointing out their own bottomline which is 350k or so, as Masked pointed out they did also estimate they could achieve around 2 mil, that's their outlook anyway. So there are a few different measurements of success when it comes to TOR.
I think this long serie of quote is exactly the point of this discussion in fact.
Some will define success with the number of suscriber, thus the money they will make with this game.
Some will define its success with the impact it have on the player mind after a long period of time.
If in 10 year we remember SWTOR for its stunning game play and all the aspects it brought to the genre, then yes definitly it will be a bearer of a new standard in my book.
For me they are only 2 standard in mmo right now, its EQ with the themepark and Uo with the sandbox standard. For the first category of people that define a success around the money it brought, then yes there is only one standard right now, its WOW, and SWTOR might be the next one (cross finger).
I hope you all understood my sarcasm, thank you bye bye.
SWTOR could definitely make the difference and there could be an after and a before SWTOR indeed, though other games like GW2 or the overall F2P market are a good tank of creativity and innovation, and this hype is a little overrated as usual, like WAR was (popular ip exploited by an expert developper supported by a wealthy editor) though its failure didn't mean too much to the end... nor its success could have mean less.
Bioware have similarities with Blizzard when they made WoW actually : they are very successfull in their standalones design experiences and this is their first MMO : thus they are free to create their game like they want it to be with a relative smooth risk taking due to their solid reputation, plus they already have a huge fan base like Blizzard had in the same period of their existence.
This is a real advantage for negotiation with investors to make their decisions and risky innovatives choices accepted : hence everybody do see (narrative storytelling, fast-paced and dynamic combats, voice acting) and await (more surprises to come after the release : mass space combats ?!!) SWTOR like an innovative MMO.
MMORPG have been created by western companies developping the rpg games concept thanks to the raise of the internet, another western company, aka Blizzard, did raise the MMO market to a point it became a major kind of games (though nobody could have predicted it) now I think, since AION (or any F2P) is in pain to impose itself in the western market, that a western company can make the market evolve toward something deeper, more innovative.
Like a lot of people I look at SWTOR with an excited and interested eye : like others I hope for the best while fearing the so usual outcome, nevertheless I think SWTOR far more than WAR or even AION can take a real place in the western MMO market (and even more considering it will have no real rival in the sci-fi kind) thus I am finally curious to see the result.
2012 is definitely the year of change, if not the end of the world , for the MMO market : SWTOR and GW2 are coming to demonstrate.
It's just one step from the sublime to the ridiculous. C9 impatient awaiter
When MMO games first came out, there was no big companies. The big three games were Ultima, Asherons Call, and Everquest, made by small companies when they first came out, Eq eventually got bought by sony and ultima by Ea I believe, but another big company and that is when both games started to go a bit downhill. Not until SWG came out did we see a big company make a mmo and that was just a rehash of ultima and those others with the swg skin, until wow came out and everyone saw there was way more potential for this market, swg then changed and every other game after that has been nothing but wow with a different skin. But lets also not forget those good old days, were not always so good, it catered to the nolifers that didnt have jobs because more time invested in the game meant you could have better stuff and more levels than the normal player. Eq required so much time that a casual player would get turned away from the game because there was not much he could do. In asherons call there was plenty a casual could do but leveling took a long time after a while.
Snip
Just a quick correction; as someone who beta tested the game, I know that Sony has always been responsible for EQ. In fact the first city they created was Qeynos... or, if you reverse it, Sony EQ. So any "downhilling" of the game that occured after release wasn't because a "big" company took it over.
noted and thanks for clearing that up. was sony really involved in the development though, I was under the impression brad mcquaid and company developed it and was later bought out by sony, how much later i didnt know but i didnt think they were directly involved from the start. either way dont matter, maybe going downhill was too strong a term but subs started falling about the time wow was really announced and that is the first time i heard sony being involved with the game which is why i had that impression.
When MMO games first came out, there was no big companies. The big three games were Ultima, Asherons Call, and Everquest, made by small companies when they first came out, Eq eventually got bought by sony and ultima by Ea I believe, but another big company and that is when both games started to go a bit downhill. Not until SWG came out did we see a big company make a mmo and that was just a rehash of ultima and those others with the swg skin, until wow came out and everyone saw there was way more potential for this market, swg then changed and every other game after that has been nothing but wow with a different skin. But lets also not forget those good old days, were not always so good, it catered to the nolifers that didnt have jobs because more time invested in the game meant you could have better stuff and more levels than the normal player. Eq required so much time that a casual player would get turned away from the game because there was not much he could do. In asherons call there was plenty a casual could do but leveling took a long time after a while.
Snip
Just a quick correction; as someone who beta tested the game, I know that Sony has always been responsible for EQ. In fact the first city they created was Qeynos... or, if you reverse it, Sony EQ. So any "downhilling" of the game that occured after release wasn't because a "big" company took it over.
noted and thanks for clearing that up. was sony really involved in the development though, I was under the impression brad mcquaid and company developed it and was later bought out by sony, how much later i didnt know but i didnt think they were directly involved from the start. either way dont matter, maybe going downhill was too strong a term but subs started falling about the time wow was really announced and that is the first time i heard sony being involved with the game which is why i had that impression.
Comments
I think this long serie of quote is exactly the point of this discussion in fact.
Some will define success with the number of suscriber, thus the money they will make with this game.
Some will define its success with the impact it have on the player mind after a long period of time.
If in 10 year we remember SWTOR for its stunning game play and all the aspects it brought to the genre, then yes definitly it will be a bearer of a new standard in my book.
For me they are only 2 standard in mmo right now, its EQ with the themepark and Uo with the sandbox standard. For the first category of people that define a success around the money it brought, then yes there is only one standard right now, its WOW, and SWTOR might be the next one (cross finger).
I hope you all understood my sarcasm, thank you bye bye.
SWTOR could definitely make the difference and there could be an after and a before SWTOR indeed, though other games like GW2 or the overall F2P market are a good tank of creativity and innovation, and this hype is a little overrated as usual, like WAR was (popular ip exploited by an expert developper supported by a wealthy editor) though its failure didn't mean too much to the end... nor its success could have mean less.
Bioware have similarities with Blizzard when they made WoW actually : they are very successfull in their standalones design experiences and this is their first MMO : thus they are free to create their game like they want it to be with a relative smooth risk taking due to their solid reputation, plus they already have a huge fan base like Blizzard had in the same period of their existence.
This is a real advantage for negotiation with investors to make their decisions and risky innovatives choices accepted : hence everybody do see (narrative storytelling, fast-paced and dynamic combats, voice acting) and await (more surprises to come after the release : mass space combats ?!!) SWTOR like an innovative MMO.
MMORPG have been created by western companies developping the rpg games concept thanks to the raise of the internet, another western company, aka Blizzard, did raise the MMO market to a point it became a major kind of games (though nobody could have predicted it) now I think, since AION (or any F2P) is in pain to impose itself in the western market, that a western company can make the market evolve toward something deeper, more innovative.
Like a lot of people I look at SWTOR with an excited and interested eye : like others I hope for the best while fearing the so usual outcome, nevertheless I think SWTOR far more than WAR or even AION can take a real place in the western MMO market (and even more considering it will have no real rival in the sci-fi kind) thus I am finally curious to see the result.
2012 is definitely the year of change, if not the end of the world
, for the MMO market : SWTOR and GW2 are coming to demonstrate.
It's just one step from the sublime to the ridiculous.
C9 impatient awaiter
noted and thanks for clearing that up. was sony really involved in the development though, I was under the impression brad mcquaid and company developed it and was later bought out by sony, how much later i didnt know but i didnt think they were directly involved from the start. either way dont matter, maybe going downhill was too strong a term but subs started falling about the time wow was really announced and that is the first time i heard sony being involved with the game which is why i had that impression.
fun thing is that hype for GW2 is higher than for SWTOR and I would say more ppl are waiting for GW2 than SWTOR, I know I am.
On here maybe, but in the general gaming public SWTOR's hype is probably much higher.
In Bioware we trust!
Verant made EQ, then Sony