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Is it going to be another tab targetting game
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Stagnation is our motto.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Yeah, I really want a "skill-based" combat system where I can jump around like and move like a spaz to avoid getting hit. I don't mind if it looks bad, just as long as I can run circles around my opponent, that'd be great. In case you didn't realize it, I was being sarcastic. I like the synched combat because it looks nice. Don't get me wrong, I love Mass Effect's combat but in an MMO like this, I would rather have something tried and true.
How can something become viable when developers refuse to try? Tab targeting dominates the mmo community because they are afraid to try something else.
Your argument is somewhat flawed.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
That may have been true back in the day but times are a changing, everything except mmo developers that is.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
There have been minor changes in the other genres, don't know why that would be really important to MMO's though. That being said, I think what's in right now will be best for TOR.
Darkfall is FPS with no tab targeting and works fine. The point is it works, nothing to do with what Darkfall is like either.
And please dont start going on about Darkfall, POINT IS IT WORKS IN THIS GAME, nothing to do with what DF is like.
My point is it works in Darkfall so why not in other games? Hope u get what Im saying.
Starting off i can understand the issue with just hitting the same buttons over and over again. That can get boring i know.
With that said i don't think the problem is with tab targeting so much as repetition. If in FPS targeting games all you did was fireball slash fireball jump fireball slash fireball jump fireball slash. That would get boring as well.
I think what makes FPS style combat fun for people is because you have to move around a lot. taking cover.
Now ToR in and of itself doesn't have aiming abilities but there is taking cover, having to move around and push other people around. From what it looks like you can also use this to your advantage by pushing a mob near a crate of explosive with a force push and then throwing your lightsaber at the crate to make it explode causing damage to a mob.
You can also take cover and go into a cops and robbers type shoot out where you time your attackis based on theirs, you do have to be careful to watch the other guys though because they can knock you out of cover.
If the AI works as intended classes will have to move around a lot as they try and break line of sight, push mobs or be pushed near dangers, situation type abillities like hold or other such things.
I think the issue thats causes the problem I quoted is not really the system of tab targeting. it's the fact that the mobs don't try and mix things up either so you can simply just do 1,2,3, 1,2,3, 1,2,3,5. If the mobs changed their tatics then you would have to as well. Which i think is what ToR is trying to do. That is of course unless the problem is that you'd simply prefer to aim your abilities. in which case *shrug* can't do nothing for you there. Tera is there for you though.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I don't see why the old mechanics always have to be rigorously abandoned as soon as people get bored. I mean, I still use the combat mechanics in modern day shooters as they were used in Quake, HL, and Unreal, same kind of walking with the same hotkeys, aiming and firing with left and right mouse button, no revolutionary new Kinect way of shooter combat and it's still great fun.
You'll see old and new combined in other gaming genres too, you have a Ruse and SUpreme Commander as RTS but you have also a SC2 that plays almost exactly the same as SC 10 years ago, still they're all enjoyable.
Same in MMO's, you already have rigorously different combat mechanics, just play Vindictus, and there's aim based targeted combat in other MMO's like DF or FE if that's your thing. But that doesn't mean that suddenly all the old tab based combat mechanics should just be thrown away, just like you don't just abandon mouse aim-and-click-to-shoot for shooters for Kinect or Wii style shooter combat, and just like different mechanics in different RTS can all be fun and exist next to eachother.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Forget the game, my POINT is the FPS part works very well. O my god!! FPS works is my point.
Yes it is.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Latency is the biggest issue with FPS-style combat. Anyone who plays FPS will tell you that playing with high ping is basically impossible unless you like getting your ass handed to you. Granted not everyone has ping issues, however it's one of the major issues with that style.
locking onto a target and firing off an animation that cannot be dodged does not sit well with those who like action and skill-based games. this combat mechanic is super old and does not appeal to me either (just my opinion). mechanics in ME2, Tera, Witcher 2 and GW2 are, in my opinion, the future of the MMO genre. in addition, such mechanics attract a much much larger audience.
Skill-based as in being able to rapidly hit your spacebar or running circles like a spaz? New isn't exactly synonymous with good. I love action games, but what's in TOR right now works for it. As for that last part, I really don't see that catching on in the MMO genre for quite some time. Sure, it can work. That doesn't mean people will flock to it though.
Exactly, I played in the community play event for tera a few months ago and now I can't even look at a tab targeting game let alone play one.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Yes, this will be another tab targetting game.
It is just one of many things that makes darkfall suck. You've given us the perfect example of why tab targetting is definitely the way to go. Just because it's being done, doesn't mean it "works", nor that it is the best way to do it.
Asmiroth20 you do realize that people still do those things in tab targeting games also.
Yes tab targeting will work just fine for TOR but it would be sooo much better if it was free aim. And I would guess the fans of SW would rave about it if it was.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
free aim does not make an mmo better, it just makes it more like an fps, and unlike a single player game mmo's can lag. The free trageting thing only worked on planet side because it was client based collision, which sucked because you could be in a base but because person X was lagging and saw you outside you died to their fire. Until they find a way to buffer games better to force everyone onto the same play speed free aim doesn't need to be in a mmo. It's to easy for people to agument their speeds and game the system. The style ToR is doing is perfectly fine, you have free aim in the space shooter so you will get your fix somewhere, but on the planets the normal style mmo playing is perfect. Your using skills not button mashing like a shooter.
Lastly ToR is a RPG not an action game, if you want that go play DCUO or wait for something else to come out. Yet I still don't see GW as being action based with you being able to dodge out of the way of attacks, none of the videos I've seen have hinted at this. RPG's go off the idea of your character hits or misses based off a random table in the game, in ToR if they miss the animation shows it missing and the enemy either dodging or blocking it, so at least it is better that the old swing right through someone and nothing happen but MISS appearing in the air.
I have yet to see tor have a massive battle, and I doubt we will.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
GW2 uses tab targeting.
I feel sorry for you. You're limiting yourself from MMO's that could be great for something as little as a combat mechanic preference. Ah well, your choice I guess.
There'll be open world pvp so of course there will be large scale battles, don't be silly.
Besides, he was talking about DF and how DF already proved how problematic aim based mechanics can be in large scale battles.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
actually no, im not sure where youre getting your definitions from. WoW and old school FPS games like Unreal Tournament are the only games i know in which people repeatedly smash the spacebar and run in circles. in WoW, it actually does you no good; if i may use someone else's analogy, this is a symptom of boredom. your mind wants to do more, but realistically, you'll do just as well by standing in one place repeating the correct ability sequence.
skill-based means different things for different games. usually, it has to do with a deeper neuromuscular involvement. In Sc2, it means clicking quickly and precisely to micromanage your units; in Quake 3 it meant WASD + aiming + clicking at the right time. in WoW it meant initializing the best sequence of DPS and CC (i,.e. pressing 1,2,1,4,5,1). but the games that REALLY got it right use both WASD + aim, and ability sequences. Global Agenda is an example of a mediocre game with an amazing combat system. ME2's is perfect because it involves critical thinking AND aiming. GW2 will be the same, the middleground between a FPS and WoW.
just thought id clarify that for you. i think many are disappointed by the fact that TOR wont really have an action aspect to it. the RPG is definitely there, but i could have been so much more. i mean, how am i gonna play an imperial agent sniper and NOT actually aim my rifle? how will i play a jedi without some sort of block/parry/dodge system like Witcher 2? the answer for me is: i wont. story is not enough for me. but this is just my own take on it.
They haven't shown the open pvp stuff for ToR but it does have it, and the open world pvp is unlimited in number so there will be places that have those battles. You will have to wait on open beta to see that stuff, they already stress test zones with 10 K+ people in one area jumping up and down and fighting eachother to test how well the servers handle it.
@Snoggi: GW2 is not aim based, all the information I've read so far and footage I've seen so far points to that. It is not like TR nor Planetside nor DF. If you claim that it is, I'd like to see some proof, sources and such.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
yes but you can dodge almost every ability/attack, or use environmental cover to avoid damage. this adds a HUGE piece of tactics to combat.
Wait what? How do you figure? Darkfall proved that there's no reason a modern MMO should rely on tab targetting. The tech is there for twitch based, its just a matter of design, and so far, SWTOR's design is, focus on the singleplayer and mechanics that have already been done. I doubt we'd see something as niche as twitch aiming from such a big game.