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RIFTs PvP is boring
caremuchless
Member Posts: 603
I have read many threads where the person was maxed out lvl and gear in two weeks.To make it clear, I am not one of those persons. Actually, I've taken my time, smelled the roses, stretched it out for as long as I could.
My point in writing, is to give another side as to why someone might not like RIFT, because for a while now, all I have read are "I did it already" posts.
I have 4 toons, 2 in the teens and 2 in their late 20s.
I do NOT like the pvp.
Personally, I think its far too simple. There is not enough give and take between the classes.
Ever watch the give and take between a good warlock and rogue (WoW)
The give and take between an icemage and a warrior? Blinks and charges and slows, snares, a warrior fear--its almost like a dance.
In RIFT, I just dont see that. As complicated as it gets is, FOCUS FIRE.
I'm not sure if I can keep on playing and I haven't even ran through all the content yet.
Comments
i couldn''t even make it thru the open beta... this game wasn't for me.
I haven't played enough pvp to say much, but I know there is a lot more to it than "focus fire." Have you ever watched a rogue vs a warlock when both have been playing casually for only 2 months? There is no dance like what you describe in that scenario. The reality is that everybody in Rift is still a noob. Everybody. Even the hard core players don't know now what they'll know a year from now. So the lack of "dance" may simply be the result of inexperience among the player base.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
If you don't see the give and take then you are not playing the right class. Pvp is fast paced and exciting. Is it the best pvp out there? No. Is it better with the wide range of souls and abilities than WoW's very simple small minded class system? Yes.
Good pvp is hard to find and unless they bring back DAoC then my pvp thirst will never be quenched. But saying there is no pull when there is a huge variety of classes and abilities is completely untrue.
Have you ever played a Dominator? A bard? A chloro? A Cabalist?
Try those and go one on one or one on three and tell me there is no give and take.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
One of you defended RIFTs pvp after admitting you dont pvp much?
"I dont raid much but I'm gonna give you my 2 cents anyway"... lol
There is not the give and take between group fights. I just dont see it. A frost mage could sheep one, silence another and root a whole group--and it wasnt overpowered cause they were soft if you got to them. I dont see any mage class being able to do anything similar to that.
It reminds me too much of WAR.
The mage class in this game, bleh---none of them have as much utility as the Frost Mage. The crowd control is weak and if it happens to be the one ability that last a while, the cast times are way too long.
Dont get mixed up WoW haters, I don't long for WoW-- and this is NOT a compare RIFT to WoW thread, this is a "THE PVP SUCKS IN RIFT" thread.
The DAOC refrerence, I agree with. Only thing that looks remotely close to that is GW2 3 way pvp in the Mist. Ill give those other builds a try, other than the chloro, cause I hated that at least in WF's. I have another couple weeks on my sub, might as well.
Really?
Kinda funny you should say that comsidering out of 2 posts all you've done is compare it to WoW.
Pretty much this for me as well. I felt the PvP in WoW is horribly mismatched because its just a casual PvE game and it is balanced for PvE. Too bad EA forced WAR to be like WoW so much that it failed, or Mythic might be working on DAoC 2 now, or the classic server. If SWTOR fails, Mythic will probably be dissolved.
WoW is balanced around PvP more than most games, it just isn't balanced around BGs. Rift PvP is a complete joke, the OP is pretty much correct completely.
If you long for DAOC style PvP though you might look into GW2.
PvP in MMORPGs where they are an side-show/afterthought is very rarely good. Basically it is just for now and then when you get bored of the PvE.
My gaming blog
Actually, I think all I did was try to give some perspective. When you see two experienced WoW pvpers going at it, it's an impressive thing to watch. What you're describing is your limited experience in Rift pvp as you've gone up against others with limited pvp experience in Rift and you're saying you might have to quit because there is no dance among people who haven't played more than 20 something levels. I'm offering a perspective you may not have considered - not defending specifics of Rift's pvp.
I was pleasantly surprised when I went from Apprentice to full 5 star Elite in under 2 months. I was pleasantly surprised again when I went from Elite to just barely Hardcore in 2 weeks. Apprentice, here I come!
I pretty much have to agree the PvP is awful. It's becoming a matter of picking whatever FotM soul and getting the damage ball and running around one/two shotting everyone with overpowered abilities or crippling a class beyond belief with purges because many classes rely on powerful buffs to do well. A Riftstalker or Justicar being purged constantly is about as useless as you could be. There is little use of CC in PvP, and classes that output high DPS typically have the most of it further complicating the problems. Gear plays a huge factor, and PvP is not as good (and requires much more of a grind) than PvE gear.
Truthfully though, the same could be said about PvP in most MMOs though. I just wish Trion would stop nerfing classes on the basis of how well they do in PvE, as some like Marksman and Pyromancer will never be useful in PvE because of how well the class does in PvP. WoW kinda brought along the mentality that you have to design a game both around PvE and PvP, when I'd personally prefer they'd just focus on one or the other.
First of all, your basing all your shit off of WoW, which is a huge mistake, WoW has changed over the years to a quick leveling, quick gearing, Raid or PvP fest, its all about wham bam thank you. The back and forth dancing you speak of is the years and years and years of Blizz balancing and rebalancing all the classes till they are basicly the same thing with a few diffrent tricks, and then gear that makes it so you dont take much damage or die quickly, so what you get is longer fighting
Rifts PvP firstly, isnt even fully implemented because they are going the smart route and introducing faction warfare OVER TIME, so at the beginning people wont waste their time only faction fighting and will work towards the mutual goal of stopping the Planar Dragons and Romulos from taking over, they will definitly be adding in more direct conflict between the factions. Secondly, Rifts PvP is how PvP in my opinion should be, the classes arnt balanced against each other( Nor should they ever be, once the balancing crap comes in PvE takes the back burner and PvP becomes the centric theme ), if you get caught against someone of skills counter to yours, your gonna die quick, welcome to real shit. Thirdly, I wish to point out to those who dont kno, that by the teens and 20's you really do not have all the abilitys your classes would have, so Im not really sure what your expecting here sir. Last but not least Rift is Based around Grouping, I kno it might sounds crazy, but their system is built for players to work together and get shit done, not go PvP off by yourself, have you tryed the group PvP? its pretty sick when you have a group with a healer, dps', and a tank
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
About WoW point taken. Its the latest thing that most people have played, that I've played. It makes an easy comparison that most people understand.
Since you dont want me to compare things to WoW, fine. I think many souls are flat out broke. They have no significant defensive capabilities and the offensive capabilities dont mesh well.
Some souls are so Crowd Control Heavy its laughable.... I mean there are only so many debuffs, and snares you can have before you think... how do I actually kill people? The dominator comes to mind.
And your right, I have not played in a an organized group.
We know that in the 20s-30s we dont have all the tools we need, but that doesnt stop us from looking at the soul tree and seeing IF we ever get abilities that will help us.
I'd have to agree. I've been playing MMO's since 97 and Rift's PVP is one of the worst I've experience.
Heavily unbalanced
Too much CC
Poor animations
Powerups
Gear focused
Absurd abilities (GOS anyone?)
Damage too high in general - one, two shots anyone? (valor = lol)
Poor/limited/unoriginal Warfront matches
No meaningful RVR
Premades queue with pugs
No death penalty or risk, it's all reward reward reward
World PVP is next to non existant (see pvp points rewards from instances)
And the big one... PVP in Rift is a lame, pointless, instanced PVP point grind.
etc etc etc etc etc etc
Guys! Please when you speak of PvP please specify if your refering to PvP as it is on a PvE server or true PvP as on a PvP server. Big difference between Warfronts and open PvP.
I don't even know why they bothered having 'PVP' servers. Leveling to 50 on a high pop PVP server I got attacked two-three times by the opposing faction in total. And when I got to 50, I spent most of my time actually looking for world PVP instead of participating in it... cause most of the other side (and mine) were sitting in their home cities grinding WF's, as the rewards gained were far greater in instances - even if you lost.
Oh, and don't get me started on the invisible guards they decided to add everywhere on PVP servers.
Hell, even WOW had better 'world PVP' than this... and that's saying something.
How good was WoW's PVP when it first came out?
Give Trion time before making a final judgement on the PVP. The game has been out for half a year compared to its competitors, its pre-mature.
A HELL of a LOT better than Rift's, that's for sure.
I played the Dominator but after patch 1.2 it was nerfed and is a useless class now. So, i did not resub!
If you're like me and sour at all games because you no longer have a fun one to play then you'll notice what I did: RIFT's PVP flaws were the negative points in a few (and I do mean just "a few") of beta reviews and PVPers were among the first to jump ship.
Now of course there are different types of PVPers, and there were people that either chanced upon the FotMs or rolled the FotM builds and were lawling "l2p" at anyone who said anything negative. As for the ones that chanced upon being lucky enough to be in an op soul combo, some were livid when the first round of nerfs and buffs came.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I like the PvP in the game, its fast paced and the classes make things interesting.. But, Iam not a fan of instanced pvp.. Give me some forts or keeps to seige! For me AION had the perfect PvP system and WoW had one of my least favorites.. Rift is pretty damn close to WoW.. I like PvPing, but I can only do the same instances for so long.. Hopefully they'll add a fort-like instance later, maybe a good 50v50 fort that lvl 50's can queue up for every few hours or something like that..
But yeah, the pvp isn't my favorite.. Mainly the PvE and my guild has kept me stringing a long.. I do have a good time pvping when i'm in a premade group with my guild all doing tactics over vent.. After doing that pugs just seem pointless.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
lol come to braircliff.. Theres plenty of handholding but theres also plenty of guardians/defiant who kill on site.. I've been attacked prolly 100+ times within my 3 month peroid of lvling.. And i play casually.. I've had some interesting fights between Guardians + Defiants after or during collosus fights.. Open world pvp in this game is easy to find if you are on a high pop server, it's just not rewarding at all.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
Lots of outdated information on this thread, which is understandable, considering how agressively Trion is patching and tweaking their game.
Heavily unbalanced = Rather generic. We can talk specifics if you want.
Too much CC = Right now we're in a middle ground of PvP. When patch 1.2 was introduced it brought diminishing returns on crowd control that lasted for 25 seconds. At the moment the diminishing returns on CC are on a 15 seconds immune cooldown. What that means is that CC is useful, but if people spam it, then the opposition will be immune when they most need it.
Poor animation = Irrelevant to the actual PvP.
Power ups = So far they have removed the stacking damage and healing buff from the shards in Port Scion. The red orb buff is still in the game though.
Gear focused = This is not necessarily a bad thing. Other MMOs that tried to have gear that meant little were not so well received (AoC early days). This is not a game that you lose gear upon death, so it's safe to make them matter.
GOS is very much countered these days now that people have learned how. Pyros relying on GOS are dead pyros.
Damage two high = There is only one class that the spike is out of proportions and that's the pyro. Other classes can under special conditions replicate some of that kind of spike with great gear but it's rare. Valor plays a huge role in survivability builds, but of course it allows damage classes to remain in the battlefield. Max valor mitigation is 35% and that's before any talent or gear mitigation (like armor) is accounted for. In the warfronts it is very obvious from a healer's perspective on who's having good PvP gear and who doesn't.
Poor, limited, unoriginal wf matches = Subjective. I wish for more variation at this point and some more focus on open world objectives. However, I found the current warfronts more than adequate.
No meaningful RvR = Agree
Premades queue with pugs = Recent hotfix claims to have changed that but it still happens when queue times are long, so for not so populated server clusters I don't think we'll see much of a change as things are right now.
No death penalty = True, game is designed that way, right from the start. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not asking for perma death in a game that is not designed for it.
World PvP = Replicated point connected to RvR.
etc etc.
I hope I was a bit more informative on the up to date status of Rift PvP.
Recent hotfix dropped diminishing return immune timers to 15 seconds. A well played Dominator is still a bane of my existence as a healing cleric. Just don't expect to keep people permanently crowd controlled.
Some souls and soul combinations are indeed better suited for PvP, the same manner that some souls are better suited for PvE. Also, what gives max damage in PvE does not translate well in PvP.
Crowd control should not be a major hindrance, not in the way it was when the game launched. I think they hit a sweet spot with the diminishing return on CC and the immune timer set to 15 secs. The teams who spam CC abilities now are the teams that lose.
i lol'd