I started EVE 3.5 years ago and I was at a skill point disadvantage. I understood, expected and accepted it. Somewhere between then and now I stopped feeling disadvantaged, probably after my 9th or 10th well trained ships a few year years ago. Same thing will happen to any new player starting today, in time you'll understand what I mean if you really do come to understand how EVE really works.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know that I have openly stated that I'm for allowing CCP to allow players to purchase skillpoints. They allow you to purchase isk and/or gametime...why not sp? I am NOT in favor of Teala's(remember the OP?) suggestion of letting new players run missions to earn more. It will be abused by vets to increase their alts.
Your points are well noted...even in #126. I would like you to acknowledge that even though some vets are against sp gains..we also had to earn them like everyone else. I would also like others that are reading to know that you are a PRIOR EvE player, and have left the game..therefore your disagreements..while perfectly articulated numerous upon numerous times, have little bearing on you personally.
I know that doesn't mean you aren't entitled to an opinion, but you seem so intent on disagreeing with all the ACTUAL players here be it Veteran player, Average player or New player..it is a little odd.
Stating that you want an EXACT even field for PvP is understandable. You do realize that this is almost impossible to achieve in MMO's. I can only think of FPS that everything is even. Hell, even in Battlefield Bad Company 2, you have to earn xp to unlock grenade lauchers, etc. Same goes for Black OPs. Most games have a progression system, so in reality...they are biased towards veteran players too...by your standard. No?
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
Still the vets avoid the question, using the 5 diversionary techniques I listed in post #126. I will answer for the vets though, since I too am a an ex-vet:
1) What would current vets do if CCP announced all skill points would be reset?
Why, given the fact that skill points are so meaningless, us veterans would welcome this development with open arms! This would bring in new players and we can show them how our superior intellect and game knowledge is all that matters. We will prove that these skill points are meaningless so please CCP, reset our skill points!
2) Why do veteran characters in EVE go for more $$$ than any other MMO on the market?
Well, clearly it isn't the skill points, since we all know how meaningless they are. The fact that some would pay several hundred dollars for that veteran character is becuase they like the name of it. Oh, and that character portrait that they chose and customized: that is very cool looking and clearly worth several hundred dollars
3) Why did CCP give all veterans free skill points when they removed the training skills from the game?
Well, it certainly wasn't because of the outrage and threatened ragequits of EVE veterans on the CCP forums. CCP wisely decided that veterans shouldn't be given anything of real value, so they were given those meaningless skill points kind of like a vanity pet in other games. Skill points in fact are even less valuable than a vanity pet because at least a vanity pet looks cool.
etc...
avoid the questions? isnt the biggest problem that your avoiding the answers.. of course.. im assuming that you understand them... and btw.. answer 3 is.. not given.. refunded.. not that i really expect you to accept that.. but keep on with the comparisons.. if anything Eve Vets enjoy a good laugh.. but of course. their not laughing with you
1) What would current vets do if CCP announced all skill points would be reset?
The exact same thing WoW vets would do if Blizzard announce the reset of all gear or levels or achievements...
Actually Blizzard completely resets gear and levels every expansion. They have done so 3 times already.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Your points are well noted...even in #126. I would like you to acknowledge that even though some vets are against sp gains..we also had to earn them like everyone else. I would also like others that are reading to know that you are a PRIOR EvE player, and have left the game..therefore your disagreements..while perfectly articulated numerous upon numerous times, have little bearing on you personally.
I would like to point out that "earn" is a subjective term here. Paying $15 per month over time is essentially what was done to "earn" the skill points. Yes, there are some book costs involved as well, but time is the real limiting factor. If someone was willing to pay CCP $360 ($15 per month x 24 months) to be rewarded with 2 years worth of skill points, would they still be "earned" or is it the length of time that is the "earning" and not the money spent?
The way you earn sp in eve is one of my biggest issue with eve, there is no way i can influence it.
i can play 10h or just stay offline 10h and earn the same sp, it always ends up with me loging in to change skills for a week or two and hit cancel afterward. I usaly dont even bother skilling up after some time.
Did not vote as i probably wouldt return now anyway, im quite done with eve. But it would have helpd to keep me when i was eager to play eve.
You know that I have openly stated that I'm for allowing CCP to allow players to purchase skillpoints. They allow you to purchase isk and/or gametime...why not sp? I am NOT in favor of Teala's(remember the OP?) suggestion of letting new players run missions to earn more. It will be abused by vets to increase their alts.
Your points are well noted...even in #126. I would like you to acknowledge that even though some vets are against sp gains..we also had to earn them like everyone else. I would also like others that are reading to know that you are a PRIOR EvE player, and have left the game..therefore your disagreements..while perfectly articulated numerous upon numerous times, have little bearing on you personally.
I know that doesn't mean you aren't entitled to an opinion, but you seem so intent on disagreeing with all the ACTUAL players here be it Veteran player, Average player or New player..it is a little odd.
Stating that you want an EXACT even field for PvP is understandable. You do realize that this is almost impossible to achieve in MMO's. I can only think of FPS that everything is even. Hell, even in Battlefield Bad Company 2, you have to earn xp to unlock grenade lauchers, etc. Same goes for Black OPs. Most games have a progression system, so in reality...they are biased towards veteran players too...by your standard. No?
I certainly would acknowledge that not ALL vets would be against the idea of buying SP with ISK. You have indicated that before and I do respect your views and I'll take you at your word, but I'm pretty certain that would be a minority view among the vets. I would go as far as saying the shrieks of rage would be heard throughout the EVE universe if it was ever implemented.
And that method of buying SP with ISK is precisely my proposed solution to the problem as I've stated before. In fact I've proposed making it more and more expensive to buy SP based on the more SP you currently have, so buying your way to the "top" would be very very difficult and vets would still have a distinct advantage. But there is a big difference between being hard to catch up to the veterans in SP and being theoretically impossible to.
And I specifically don't like the idea of running missions to get SP either. It only favors one method of play, while ISK is sort of the universal summarization of many differnet ways of playing, be it exploration, mining, missions, salvage, industry, etc.
And true I don't play anymore, but I still do feel attached somewhat to the game as I spent a good portion of time playing it a long time ago and have considered returning as I am not active in any MMO at the moment. I assure you my feelings are sincere and am not "out to get EVE" or something, but I feel compelled to voice my opinion and counter the view that some are communicating that SP doesn't matter. I think this SP mechanic is flawed and unfair and am hoping they change it.
In almost no other game I can think of, in fact I can't think of one, is there an element of it that cannot be equaled through skill and hard work, even over a long period of time. You literally can do absolutely nothing to equalize the SP element of the game, which is fundamental to who you are and what you can do.
Sure you can use any of the 5 arguments I listed before to say why it shouldn't matter, but the fact is I instinctively rebel against this notion of an inherent advantage based on how many months you subscribed. I have the same passion against any game that has any kind of pay to win element under any guise. To me it breaks a fundamental rule for PVP and I admit it generates passion in my posts...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
In almost no other game I can think of, in fact I can't think of one, is there an element of it that cannot be equaled through skill and hard work, even over a long period of time. You literally can do absolutely nothing to equalize the SP element of the game, which is fundamental to who you are and what you can do.
Sure you can use any of the 5 arguments I listed before to say why it shouldn't matter, but the fact is I instinctively rebel against this notion of an inherent advantage based on how many months you subscribed. I have the same passion against any game that has any kind of pay to win element under any guise. To me it breaks a fundamental rule for PVP and I admit it generates passion in my posts...
Problem is that there is that issue in any game that has any progression in it period, The game just picks who has the advantage. I don't waste time playing FPSes any more because while the young kids are playing what seems like 47 hours a day and getting all the better gear, practice learning the maps in side and out, I'm constantly behind be cause I may get 2 hours a day to play if I am lucky. Most MMOs are becoming like that as well and I just don't waste my time with them. With EvE you know what I don't have to deal with that crap. I log on get what I want to do, not what has to be done to meet X/Y/Z lvl/gear/pvp/guild progression lvl so I can go do it. Since I have so little time to play lately most of my pvp ships are T1 Cruisers and Frigs. Cheap, effective and disposable. I'm an old enough player I know how to get a lot of milage off those ships with next to no issues. In fact the only non-t1 ship I fly in PVP was my alliance provided Guardian.
So sure I have ~85mil SP but then again there are guys with 170mil out there did I ever worry about my SP compared to thiers nope. Why because in the end it just doesn't matter. I take what ever I can and beat the ever loving piss out of whoever needs the beating anyway I can (which is how I fight in RL now that I think about it...). If they are bigger then me I look to cripple them. If that don't work I get friends. Are those reasons the Cop outs that you are calling them to be in all but name. no they are the truth of how the game works. Unless you want us to start queing up for arena fights in EvE the nessicity for balanced PVP just won't be there and the need to "catch up" won't be there either.
I have the same passion against any game that has any kind of pay to win element under any guise. To me it breaks a fundamental rule for PVP and I admit it generates passion in my posts...
You are proposing a switch from payment of time to a payment of money to win as your solution? Brilliant.
OP wants to be leet and hardcore at soloing in all forms of ship combat (from frigates right on up to Titans), but doesn't want to dedicate the time.
I do believe you can get characters transferred to your account for ISK on the EvE Forums.
You can also sell PLEX for ISK, so money and ships won't be a problem either.
Get lots of both after you buy your character, go to 6VDT and see how long you last.
This game isn't WoW. Yes, there are skill points. Yes there are leet ships that require certain skills to get into. But being in a big bad battlecruisers won't do shit when a bunch of guys in Drams come and have their way with you. You need to KNOW how to play this game. Heck, I'm still learning, but I know enough that bigger and more expensive is definately NOT always better. I've got the kill mails to prove it.
Your smarts and social skills will win over any leet moron out there witha gajillion skill points. It might not be insta kill, but you'd be amazed at what a fleet of assault frigates (something that doesn't take too long to get into btw) can do.
I have the same passion against any game that has any kind of pay to win element under any guise. To me it breaks a fundamental rule for PVP and I admit it generates passion in my posts...
You are proposing a switch from payment of time to a payment of money to win as your solution? Brilliant.
Well, ideally they would get rid of PLEX too but I understand why CCP did that, it is an unfortunate reality. Every popular MMO has gold sellers and account sellers and hackers/glitchers/etc, and CCP just wanted to make the profits themselves on this and cut out the middleman. I personally ALWAYS ignore gold/account sellers.
But me proposoing you can buy SP with ISK has absolutely nothing to do with that. If I wanted to go down the pay 2 win route in EVE that is already available and even encouraged by CCP, They endorse the market for selling veteran characters.
Buying SP with ISK just means a dedicated player can make up some ground if he works at it or is great at making ISK in game. The PLEX / pay2win issue is completely unrelated...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I have the same passion against any game that has any kind of pay to win element under any guise. To me it breaks a fundamental rule for PVP and I admit it generates passion in my posts...
You are proposing a switch from payment of time to a payment of money to win as your solution? Brilliant.
Well, ideally they would get rid of PLEX too but I understand why CCP did that, it is an unfortunate reality. Every popular MMO has gold sellers and account sellers and hackers/glitchers/etc, and CCP just wanted to make the profits themselves on this and cut out the middleman. I personally ALWAYS ignore gold/account sellers.
But me proposoing you can buy SP with ISK has absolutely nothing to do with that. If I wanted to go down the pay 2 win route in EVE that is already available and even encouraged by CCP, They endorse the market for selling veteran characters.
Buying SP with ISK just means a dedicated player can make up some ground if he works at it or is great at making ISK in game. The PLEX / pay2win issue is completely unrelated...
The problem with this is that because plex does already exist if you then add the buying of sp using isk the economy would go haywire. Plex prices would go through the roof which in turn would drive inflation of the games economy through the roof as well. This is a worse solution than running missions for sp.
No need as the SP just doesn't make enough of a difference anyway. EVE is all about the meta-game and tactics.
Your SP doesn't really come into play in a straight up fleet vs fleet fights, other than getting into a paricular ship which only takes 60 days max anyway.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Why not cap all skills at lvl1 and let the traingin times be 1 minute?
You are most likely to find every level of every support skill necesseray and then come here and throw out your own diversions.
Well, why not? If EVE is all about the gameplay and not the carrot on the stick of levels like most vets claim, why should there be so many skill levels that take months to train? This is a very artificial carrot on stick mechanic. This has nothing to do with gameplay, just a pay 2 win for vets who have paid longest.
Actually your idea is pretty good. Veterans act like they "earned" those skill points by the mere fact that they existed in the game longer. They were paid for pure and simple, not earned by any player effort or talent.
All games are like this. For some single player games you just google for a cheatcode and win the game.
Great diversion.
No, all games are not like that. Your example is poor, as single player games you are not playing against others who have built in advantages over you FOREVER. In fact most games there is absolutely no built in advantage for a 5 year veteran over a 3 year veteran. It is like the first player to ever play chess gets to always play with more pieces than everybody else, and then keep saying "Come on everybody, lets play chess! I get 3 queens and you get 1 but hey we can still have fun!"
I would not play a games that gives me no incentative to play, that would be plain stupid.
Carrot on a stick, whatever you will call it, why would not a game give you reasons to play it? And cheating lowers that incentative to play the game,( well at least for me.) But want an acknowledged cheatcode in EVE to get past these 'carrots'... go play a single player game where you already have that option served to you by google.
If you are not realising it your argument was moot as soon as you typed it. As I assume that you would not lpay a game that do not hold a 'carrot on a stick' for you...
Why not cap all skills at lvl1 and let the traingin times be 1 minute?
You are most likely to find every level of every support skill necesseray and then come here and throw out your own diversions.
Well, why not? If EVE is all about the gameplay and not the carrot on the stick of levels like most vets claim, why should there be so many skill levels that take months to train? This is a very artificial carrot on stick mechanic. This has nothing to do with gameplay, just a pay 2 win for vets who have paid longest.
Actually your idea is pretty good. Veterans act like they "earned" those skill points by the mere fact that they existed in the game longer. They were paid for pure and simple, not earned by any player effort or talent.
All games are like this. For some single player games you just google for a cheatcode and win the game.
Great diversion.
No, all games are not like that. Your example is poor, as single player games you are not playing against others who have built in advantages over you FOREVER. In fact most games there is absolutely no built in advantage for a 5 year veteran over a 3 year veteran. It is like the first player to ever play chess gets to always play with more pieces than everybody else, and then keep saying "Come on everybody, lets play chess! I get 3 queens and you get 1 but hey we can still have fun!"
I would not play a games that gives me no incentative to play, that would be plain stupid.
Carrot on a stick, whatever you will call it, why would not a game give you reasons to play it? And cheating lowers that incentative to play the game,( well at least for me.) But want an acknowledged cheatcode in EVE to get past these 'carrots'... go play a single player game where you already have that option served to you by google.
If you are not realising it your argument was moot as soon as you typed it. As I assume that you would not lpay a game that do not hold a 'carrot on a stick' for you...
Look, I understand vets will never give up their skill point advantage, but that doesn't mean I can't discuss the topic or propose alternatives. And being knowledgeable with how EVE works I like to inform noobs on the subject, who are constantly being fed misinformation by the vets on this topic. The debate tacticts that the vets use are subtle and aren't easy for a noob to understand. Vets try to make them feel bad about their unwillingness to play with a permanent handicap.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Why not cap all skills at lvl1 and let the traingin times be 1 minute?
You are most likely to find every level of every support skill necesseray and then come here and throw out your own diversions.
Well, why not? If EVE is all about the gameplay and not the carrot on the stick of levels like most vets claim, why should there be so many skill levels that take months to train? This is a very artificial carrot on stick mechanic. This has nothing to do with gameplay, just a pay 2 win for vets who have paid longest.
Actually your idea is pretty good. Veterans act like they "earned" those skill points by the mere fact that they existed in the game longer. They were paid for pure and simple, not earned by any player effort or talent.
All games are like this. For some single player games you just google for a cheatcode and win the game.
Great diversion.
No, all games are not like that. Your example is poor, as single player games you are not playing against others who have built in advantages over you FOREVER. In fact most games there is absolutely no built in advantage for a 5 year veteran over a 3 year veteran. It is like the first player to ever play chess gets to always play with more pieces than everybody else, and then keep saying "Come on everybody, lets play chess! I get 3 queens and you get 1 but hey we can still have fun!"
I would not play a games that gives me no incentative to play, that would be plain stupid.
Carrot on a stick, whatever you will call it, why would not a game give you reasons to play it? And cheating lowers that incentative to play the game,( well at least for me.) But want an acknowledged cheatcode in EVE to get past these 'carrots'... go play a single player game where you already have that option served to you by google.
If you are not realising it your argument was moot as soon as you typed it. As I assume that you would not lpay a game that do not hold a 'carrot on a stick' for you...
Look, I understand vets will never give up their skill point advantage, but that doesn't mean I can't discuss the topic or propose alternatives. And being knowledgeable with how EVE works I like to inform noobs on the subject, who are constantly being fed misinformation by the vets on this topic. The debate tacticts that the vets use are subtle and aren't easy for a noob to understand. Vets try to make them feel bad about their unwillingness to play with a permanent handicap.
You're basically accusing vets of selfishness. Yet it is no less selfish for a new player to want to get skills quickly when it took other players years to obtain the skills they have. If you want to play the game, then play the game, but just don't whine about what every other player before you had to do except without all the whining and complaining.
We've already explained how all skills are capped and how there is no 'permanent handicap'. Focus on a single ship and you can have all the bonuses for that ship that any vet has. Yes that may mean that a vet may be able to fly a greater variety of ships than you can, but in that ship you'll be just as good in terms of stats/bonuses as they are. And yes, if you're talking about capital ships that may take a very long time, but the great majority of players do not fly capital ships. Even if they are able to they generally don't because of the huge cost risk involved.
It's also been explained that group versus group battles are much much more common than one on one battles and that in group batttles a frigate pilot can be just as necessary as someone flying a battleship and sometimes more so. Many even prefer to fly the smaller faster and more utilitarian ships.
The game is getting better with each passing year. It's up to the individual player to decide whether they want to commit to a game like Eve, and since the number of subscribers grows every year there are plenty of people who are willing to accept the game on it's terms. The game isn't going to make drastic changes for you as a new player just to give you shortcuts that nobody else had. Get over it.
No need as the SP just doesn't make enough of a difference anyway. EVE is all about the meta-game and tactics.
Your SP doesn't really come into play in a straight up fleet vs fleet fights, other than getting into a paricular ship which only takes 60 days max anyway.
Take EFT , calculate dps shield etc with min skills compare to max skills, its 20-50% difference for each stat, some fitting dont even work without certain maxed core skills
No need as the SP just doesn't make enough of a difference anyway. EVE is all about the meta-game and tactics.
Your SP doesn't really come into play in a straight up fleet vs fleet fights, other than getting into a paricular ship which only takes 60 days max anyway.
Take EFT , calculate dps shield etc with min skills compare to max skills, its 20-50% difference for each stat, some fitting dont even work without certain maxed core skills
Yes, you may do 300 dps and I may do 400, but since we are part of a fleet doing 2,000,000 dps the 100 damage difference is not noticable. As for the core fitting skills, well I can see an arguement for knocking out the fitting requirement ones like they did with the Learning skills but considering that at worse you will be spending about 2 days training per one to 4 which will handle 95-99% of the fits you'll ever need, I'm not sure if its that big of a deal. Another 15 days for Engineering, Electronics, and Weapons Upgrades 5 after which if you run up Adv. Weapon Upgrades to 4 you should have absolutely no problems with anything.
No need as the SP just doesn't make enough of a difference anyway. EVE is all about the meta-game and tactics.
Your SP doesn't really come into play in a straight up fleet vs fleet fights, other than getting into a paricular ship which only takes 60 days max anyway.
Take EFT , calculate dps shield etc with min skills compare to max skills, its 20-50% difference for each stat, some fitting dont even work without certain maxed core skills
Certain maxed core skills?
At least give an effort into the game, at some point even you have to draw a line where you have to agree that even new players have put up some (effort).
Look, I understand vets will never give up their skill point advantage, but that doesn't mean I can't discuss the topic or propose alternatives. And being knowledgeable with how EVE works I like to inform noobs on the subject, who are constantly being fed misinformation by the vets on this topic. The debate tacticts that the vets use are subtle and aren't easy for a noob to understand. Vets try to make them feel bad about their unwillingness to play with a permanent handicap.
As long as you do the same diversions you rant about you are nothing but a hypocrit.
You're basically accusing vets of selfishness. Yet it is no less selfish for a new player to want to get skills quickly when it took other players years to obtain the skills they have. If you want to play the game, then play the game, but just don't whine about what every other player before you had to do except without all the whining and complaining.
We've already explained how all skills are capped and how there is no 'permanent handicap'. Focus on a single ship and you can have all the bonuses for that ship that any vet has. Yes that may mean that a vet may be able to fly a greater variety of ships than you can, but in that ship you'll be just as good in terms of stats/bonuses as they are. And yes, if you're talking about capital ships that may take a very long time, but the great majority of players do not fly capital ships. Even if they are able to they generally don't because of the huge cost risk involved.
It's also been explained that group versus group battles are much much more common than one on one battles and that in group batttles a frigate pilot can be just as necessary as someone flying a battleship and sometimes more so. Many even prefer to fly the smaller faster and more utilitarian ships.
+1 to these, especially the first paragraph.
Cap ships are only really used for pos bashes anyways, and the ratio of cap ships to normal is something like 20:1, maybe even higher.
Third paragraph is also correct. Most people fly bc, cruisers, frigs. T1 and T2. Battleships are just too slow for most fights, and are easily shut down if the enemy isn't in your optimal. T2 ships are also expensive, and expensive to fit. T2 frigs can easily be taken down by a cruiser unless he's retarded. BC's as well. A few well placed shots from a bs will kill assault ships too. T1 ships are just much more cost effective 90% of the time.
Let's see what the average non-EVE player thinks about this ideal. I added a poll. Personally, I as a veteran, would like to see this added to the game. Maybe then I could get more people to try it! I only recently talked my roomie into trying it. She is liking it, but hates that she is so far behind the average veteran player. She wishes she had some other way, other than the current means of learning skills so she can atleast get into the game and be more viable sooner...as it is now, like she said, "It'll take months before I can even get enough skills and SP to be of much use to anyone."
So we discussed how a player might be able to "catch up" in a fashion that is not overbearing, yet adds a reasonable means for a new player to get up to speed. This was the ideal we came up with and I personally like the ideal.
I'm in the same boat as your roomate actually. Well a little different because every time I think about how long it will take me to catch up I decided not to play Eve because of how far behind I will be and how long it will take me to get to a point where I can participate. I like the idea.
Ps. I was thinking about giving Eve a try today, but that's the main reason that's stopping me.
Let's see what the average non-EVE player thinks about this ideal. I added a poll. Personally, I as a veteran, would like to see this added to the game. Maybe then I could get more people to try it! I only recently talked my roomie into trying it. She is liking it, but hates that she is so far behind the average veteran player. She wishes she had some other way, other than the current means of learning skills so she can atleast get into the game and be more viable sooner...as it is now, like she said, "It'll take months before I can even get enough skills and SP to be of much use to anyone."
So we discussed how a player might be able to "catch up" in a fashion that is not overbearing, yet adds a reasonable means for a new player to get up to speed. This was the ideal we came up with and I personally like the ideal.
I'm in the same boat as your roomate actually. Well a little different because every time I think about how long it will take me to catch up I decided not to play Eve because of how far behind I will be and how long it will take me to get to a point where I can participate. I like the idea.
Ps. I was thinking about giving Eve a try today, but that's the main reason that's stopping me.
then move onto a game that you start with the same abilities/skills as someone who has been playing longer. I would imagine that would limit you to StarCraft II. If you aren't even willingly to try a game b/c of this huge and unfair disadvantage...then move on.
Or...download the trial..play it for a bit. Maybe find some friends in game, and play it as CCP intended it to be. Set some goals for yourself other than..."I want to have a Battleship in 2 weeks." For example...you could say...
1. I want to mine x amount of all the low ends..
2. I want to produce x amount of raw mats from PI
3. I want to participate in Red vs Blue and kill someone.
4. I want drop my security status by 5 points in 10 mins...(haha)
5. I want to probe out and plunder a wormhole.
6. I want to produce x amount of battlecruisers and sell them.
this list could go on and on.
Or you could say.."i'll never catch up, so I'm not playing." Really the only thing you are missing is a huge frown face.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@gainsvilleg
You know that I have openly stated that I'm for allowing CCP to allow players to purchase skillpoints. They allow you to purchase isk and/or gametime...why not sp? I am NOT in favor of Teala's(remember the OP?) suggestion of letting new players run missions to earn more. It will be abused by vets to increase their alts.
Your points are well noted...even in #126. I would like you to acknowledge that even though some vets are against sp gains..we also had to earn them like everyone else. I would also like others that are reading to know that you are a PRIOR EvE player, and have left the game..therefore your disagreements..while perfectly articulated numerous upon numerous times, have little bearing on you personally.
I know that doesn't mean you aren't entitled to an opinion, but you seem so intent on disagreeing with all the ACTUAL players here be it Veteran player, Average player or New player..it is a little odd.
Stating that you want an EXACT even field for PvP is understandable. You do realize that this is almost impossible to achieve in MMO's. I can only think of FPS that everything is even. Hell, even in Battlefield Bad Company 2, you have to earn xp to unlock grenade lauchers, etc. Same goes for Black OPs. Most games have a progression system, so in reality...they are biased towards veteran players too...by your standard. No?
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
avoid the questions? isnt the biggest problem that your avoiding the answers.. of course.. im assuming that you understand them... and btw.. answer 3 is.. not given.. refunded.. not that i really expect you to accept that.. but keep on with the comparisons.. if anything Eve Vets enjoy a good laugh.. but of course. their not laughing with you
Actually Blizzard completely resets gear and levels every expansion. They have done so 3 times already.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I would like to point out that "earn" is a subjective term here. Paying $15 per month over time is essentially what was done to "earn" the skill points. Yes, there are some book costs involved as well, but time is the real limiting factor. If someone was willing to pay CCP $360 ($15 per month x 24 months) to be rewarded with 2 years worth of skill points, would they still be "earned" or is it the length of time that is the "earning" and not the money spent?
The way you earn sp in eve is one of my biggest issue with eve, there is no way i can influence it.
i can play 10h or just stay offline 10h and earn the same sp, it always ends up with me loging in to change skills for a week or two and hit cancel afterward. I usaly dont even bother skilling up after some time.
Did not vote as i probably wouldt return now anyway, im quite done with eve. But it would have helpd to keep me when i was eager to play eve.
I certainly would acknowledge that not ALL vets would be against the idea of buying SP with ISK. You have indicated that before and I do respect your views and I'll take you at your word, but I'm pretty certain that would be a minority view among the vets. I would go as far as saying the shrieks of rage would be heard throughout the EVE universe if it was ever implemented.
And that method of buying SP with ISK is precisely my proposed solution to the problem as I've stated before. In fact I've proposed making it more and more expensive to buy SP based on the more SP you currently have, so buying your way to the "top" would be very very difficult and vets would still have a distinct advantage. But there is a big difference between being hard to catch up to the veterans in SP and being theoretically impossible to.
And I specifically don't like the idea of running missions to get SP either. It only favors one method of play, while ISK is sort of the universal summarization of many differnet ways of playing, be it exploration, mining, missions, salvage, industry, etc.
And true I don't play anymore, but I still do feel attached somewhat to the game as I spent a good portion of time playing it a long time ago and have considered returning as I am not active in any MMO at the moment. I assure you my feelings are sincere and am not "out to get EVE" or something, but I feel compelled to voice my opinion and counter the view that some are communicating that SP doesn't matter. I think this SP mechanic is flawed and unfair and am hoping they change it.
In almost no other game I can think of, in fact I can't think of one, is there an element of it that cannot be equaled through skill and hard work, even over a long period of time. You literally can do absolutely nothing to equalize the SP element of the game, which is fundamental to who you are and what you can do.
Sure you can use any of the 5 arguments I listed before to say why it shouldn't matter, but the fact is I instinctively rebel against this notion of an inherent advantage based on how many months you subscribed. I have the same passion against any game that has any kind of pay to win element under any guise. To me it breaks a fundamental rule for PVP and I admit it generates passion in my posts...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Problem is that there is that issue in any game that has any progression in it period, The game just picks who has the advantage. I don't waste time playing FPSes any more because while the young kids are playing what seems like 47 hours a day and getting all the better gear, practice learning the maps in side and out, I'm constantly behind be cause I may get 2 hours a day to play if I am lucky. Most MMOs are becoming like that as well and I just don't waste my time with them. With EvE you know what I don't have to deal with that crap. I log on get what I want to do, not what has to be done to meet X/Y/Z lvl/gear/pvp/guild progression lvl so I can go do it. Since I have so little time to play lately most of my pvp ships are T1 Cruisers and Frigs. Cheap, effective and disposable. I'm an old enough player I know how to get a lot of milage off those ships with next to no issues. In fact the only non-t1 ship I fly in PVP was my alliance provided Guardian.
So sure I have ~85mil SP but then again there are guys with 170mil out there did I ever worry about my SP compared to thiers nope. Why because in the end it just doesn't matter. I take what ever I can and beat the ever loving piss out of whoever needs the beating anyway I can (which is how I fight in RL now that I think about it...). If they are bigger then me I look to cripple them. If that don't work I get friends. Are those reasons the Cop outs that you are calling them to be in all but name. no they are the truth of how the game works. Unless you want us to start queing up for arena fights in EvE the nessicity for balanced PVP just won't be there and the need to "catch up" won't be there either.
You are proposing a switch from payment of time to a payment of money to win as your solution? Brilliant.
So the whole point of this thread is:
OP wants to be leet and hardcore at soloing in all forms of ship combat (from frigates right on up to Titans), but doesn't want to dedicate the time.
I do believe you can get characters transferred to your account for ISK on the EvE Forums.
You can also sell PLEX for ISK, so money and ships won't be a problem either.
Get lots of both after you buy your character, go to 6VDT and see how long you last.
This game isn't WoW. Yes, there are skill points. Yes there are leet ships that require certain skills to get into. But being in a big bad battlecruisers won't do shit when a bunch of guys in Drams come and have their way with you. You need to KNOW how to play this game. Heck, I'm still learning, but I know enough that bigger and more expensive is definately NOT always better. I've got the kill mails to prove it.
Your smarts and social skills will win over any leet moron out there witha gajillion skill points. It might not be insta kill, but you'd be amazed at what a fleet of assault frigates (something that doesn't take too long to get into btw) can do.
Well, ideally they would get rid of PLEX too but I understand why CCP did that, it is an unfortunate reality. Every popular MMO has gold sellers and account sellers and hackers/glitchers/etc, and CCP just wanted to make the profits themselves on this and cut out the middleman. I personally ALWAYS ignore gold/account sellers.
But me proposoing you can buy SP with ISK has absolutely nothing to do with that. If I wanted to go down the pay 2 win route in EVE that is already available and even encouraged by CCP, They endorse the market for selling veteran characters.
Buying SP with ISK just means a dedicated player can make up some ground if he works at it or is great at making ISK in game. The PLEX / pay2win issue is completely unrelated...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The problem with this is that because plex does already exist if you then add the buying of sp using isk the economy would go haywire. Plex prices would go through the roof which in turn would drive inflation of the games economy through the roof as well. This is a worse solution than running missions for sp.
No need as the SP just doesn't make enough of a difference anyway. EVE is all about the meta-game and tactics.
Your SP doesn't really come into play in a straight up fleet vs fleet fights, other than getting into a paricular ship which only takes 60 days max anyway.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I would not play a games that gives me no incentative to play, that would be plain stupid.
Carrot on a stick, whatever you will call it, why would not a game give you reasons to play it? And cheating lowers that incentative to play the game,( well at least for me.) But want an acknowledged cheatcode in EVE to get past these 'carrots'... go play a single player game where you already have that option served to you by google.
If you are not realising it your argument was moot as soon as you typed it. As I assume that you would not lpay a game that do not hold a 'carrot on a stick' for you...
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Look, I understand vets will never give up their skill point advantage, but that doesn't mean I can't discuss the topic or propose alternatives. And being knowledgeable with how EVE works I like to inform noobs on the subject, who are constantly being fed misinformation by the vets on this topic. The debate tacticts that the vets use are subtle and aren't easy for a noob to understand. Vets try to make them feel bad about their unwillingness to play with a permanent handicap.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You're basically accusing vets of selfishness. Yet it is no less selfish for a new player to want to get skills quickly when it took other players years to obtain the skills they have. If you want to play the game, then play the game, but just don't whine about what every other player before you had to do except without all the whining and complaining.
We've already explained how all skills are capped and how there is no 'permanent handicap'. Focus on a single ship and you can have all the bonuses for that ship that any vet has. Yes that may mean that a vet may be able to fly a greater variety of ships than you can, but in that ship you'll be just as good in terms of stats/bonuses as they are. And yes, if you're talking about capital ships that may take a very long time, but the great majority of players do not fly capital ships. Even if they are able to they generally don't because of the huge cost risk involved.
It's also been explained that group versus group battles are much much more common than one on one battles and that in group batttles a frigate pilot can be just as necessary as someone flying a battleship and sometimes more so. Many even prefer to fly the smaller faster and more utilitarian ships.
The game is getting better with each passing year. It's up to the individual player to decide whether they want to commit to a game like Eve, and since the number of subscribers grows every year there are plenty of people who are willing to accept the game on it's terms. The game isn't going to make drastic changes for you as a new player just to give you shortcuts that nobody else had. Get over it.
Take EFT , calculate dps shield etc with min skills compare to max skills, its 20-50% difference for each stat, some fitting dont even work without certain maxed core skills
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Yes, you may do 300 dps and I may do 400, but since we are part of a fleet doing 2,000,000 dps the 100 damage difference is not noticable. As for the core fitting skills, well I can see an arguement for knocking out the fitting requirement ones like they did with the Learning skills but considering that at worse you will be spending about 2 days training per one to 4 which will handle 95-99% of the fits you'll ever need, I'm not sure if its that big of a deal. Another 15 days for Engineering, Electronics, and Weapons Upgrades 5 after which if you run up Adv. Weapon Upgrades to 4 you should have absolutely no problems with anything.
Certain maxed core skills?
At least give an effort into the game, at some point even you have to draw a line where you have to agree that even new players have put up some (effort).
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
As long as you do the same diversions you rant about you are nothing but a hypocrit.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
+1 to these, especially the first paragraph.
Cap ships are only really used for pos bashes anyways, and the ratio of cap ships to normal is something like 20:1, maybe even higher.
Third paragraph is also correct. Most people fly bc, cruisers, frigs. T1 and T2. Battleships are just too slow for most fights, and are easily shut down if the enemy isn't in your optimal. T2 ships are also expensive, and expensive to fit. T2 frigs can easily be taken down by a cruiser unless he's retarded. BC's as well. A few well placed shots from a bs will kill assault ships too. T1 ships are just much more cost effective 90% of the time.
I'm in the same boat as your roomate actually. Well a little different because every time I think about how long it will take me to catch up I decided not to play Eve because of how far behind I will be and how long it will take me to get to a point where I can participate. I like the idea.
Ps. I was thinking about giving Eve a try today, but that's the main reason that's stopping me.
then move onto a game that you start with the same abilities/skills as someone who has been playing longer. I would imagine that would limit you to StarCraft II. If you aren't even willingly to try a game b/c of this huge and unfair disadvantage...then move on.
Or...download the trial..play it for a bit. Maybe find some friends in game, and play it as CCP intended it to be. Set some goals for yourself other than..."I want to have a Battleship in 2 weeks." For example...you could say...
1. I want to mine x amount of all the low ends..
2. I want to produce x amount of raw mats from PI
3. I want to participate in Red vs Blue and kill someone.
4. I want drop my security status by 5 points in 10 mins...(haha)
5. I want to probe out and plunder a wormhole.
6. I want to produce x amount of battlecruisers and sell them.
this list could go on and on.
Or you could say.."i'll never catch up, so I'm not playing." Really the only thing you are missing is a huge frown face.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general