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Originally posted by Dream_Chaser Sigh. This is a pointless trolling thread, isn't it? Why am I biting when there are so many.....
You should rewrite that without sounding like an aloof prick. Lots of interesting ideals and theories and I enjoyed the read. But you sprinkled the whole thing with this condescending attitude that makes you come off as an arrogant tool that thinks most people are beneath your intellect. And that kind of ruined it for me. But other than that, I like your imagination and your hope for the genre.
Because it just may take the holy trinity and smash it on its head.
Really take a look at the way GW 2 plays in the good gameplay videos out there. Turn off the volume so you don't have an Anet schill talking about the game. Focus ONLY on what is going on on screen.
Ok, so what Anet has said is that they don't want dedicated healers so that people can get right back into the action. Admirable aim.
Now let's look at how this actually plays out:
Ok, now just watch what the thief does in the first half of the video. So apparantly there's no tank and we already know there's no healer. Do you see how quickly the thief gets raped? Then when someone tries to get her up, he goes down too. And even without a tank or a healer that little boss there is basically taking no damage at all.
Could be they don't have enough people. Could be that Anet needs to tweak boss encounters. Who knows? I'm just going off what is in the video. Anet made it to show stuff off and that's what I'm going off of.
Apparantly there was a Guardian there, but he didn't appear to actually be able to do anything. Whenever the thief got close to try to dish out some damage the boss just turned around and started attacking her.
Again, this could be any number of things. However, if the trinity is gone, then this is how things are actually going to play out.
You're going to have a game whose CORE is designed to interface with the trinity, but there is no trinity for players to try to play around with. That's really where GW 2 is heading at the moment.
I'm not trying to defend the trinity, but for games that are at their core designed like this you have to either use the trinity or break your game. Or make a game that is going to be too difficult for most people. I'm the kind of person that digs a difficult game, but a LOT of people don't. And there's no 'difficulty' setting on mmos. Sure some encounters have a 'hard mode', but there is no way for an individual to change the baseline difficulty.
Anet has designers that are still making encounters with the trinity in the back of their minds, but at the same time they are actively trying to do away with that same trinity. The end result isn't going to go well for anybody.
First off your use of the word Schill toward the Anet employee is a deregatory remark of the highest magnitude and shows your bias and Fanboyism to another MMO and your hatred to Guildwars so I really shouldnt go any further but I will for arguments sake.
If you disregarded your own complete nonsenical statement "turn off the volumn" then you would of heard the presenter state this is a high level area and that the players were underlevel but attmpting the content anyway. Also you might happen to notice that the person playing that theif was absolutely terrible in every sense of the word. Rolling back for fun and normal movement yet when the boss telegraphs a kill shot she stands right there. On top of every thing else she was keyboard turning and mouse clicking their skills, the universally agreed upon indicator for a baddie.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
You should rewrite that without sounding like an aloof prick. Lots of interesting ideals and theories and I enjoyed the read. But you sprinkled the whole thing with this condescending attitude that makes you come off as an arrogant tool that thinks most people are beneath your intellect. And that kind of ruined it for me. But other than that, I like your imagination and your hope for the genre.
Most take me as an aloof prick anyway, I'm just playing up to the fabrication because it's fun to do so. Whether anyone reads it and finds any worth in it is up to them. Though I do speak truth - I am so incredibly tired of fantasy never trying to reinvent itself. It's the equivalent of the little hermit, sitting in his house all alone, he never redecorates, cleans, or dusts anything, and everything remains the same forever. That's what some people seem to want out of fantasy. And... I am so tired of that. I'm the sort of person who craves change, if I were in a more eccentric mood I might even ascribe myself to the philosophies of the chaos magician, because I thrive on ideas. They're my personal currency and stock in trade, and new ones, especially original ones that manage to inspire me are those I value and covet the most.
I'm also more than a little sick of pretending that I have to like this sickeningly decadent state of affairs tha the genre has gotten itself into. If I make myself unpopular from the start then I'm just being honest, and folks will know where they stand. Really, if someone agrees with me then they won't find me all that aloof or so much of a prick in the first place, and they might even see that I'm just having a little fun. So really, it just comes down to what people want to see. And I will also note that there is an air of contradiction to your words, for often you won't find arrogant tools providing any sort of illumination.
And I haven't begun to share the depths of my imagination, really. That I'm working into a book of my own that I hope to finish up one day, eventually, when I get around to it. Until then I'm dreaming up new things and collating notes, jotting down ideas and things, and it's looking more and more like the output one might expect if iain M Banks and Grant Morrison managed to conceive a child. New Age Science-Fantasy stuff. The sort of thing I'd like to see, no less. It may be fun to think I'd want to lead by example but my self-opinion isn't what I pretend it to be, so my work is wrought with lots'n lots of happy little doubt bubbles.
Of course, it's easy to see that this is likely where some of my frustration comes from. It'd be easy for me to just give up on lofty, crazed ideas that might not be so quickly absorbed or understood and concentrate instead upon a boring, down to earth fantasy, selling myself out in the process, just to create something that would be easy for myself to conceive, and for the majority to digest. But the easy way is never the right way, or even the fun way, but all too often in this genre--at least in regards to videogames--I see people taking the easy way. Because there's money in the easy way.
Though I do respect, admire, and bloody love ArenaNet for not taking the easy way.
To finish up, I'll share an example, a taste of the sort of gleefully unashamed utter nonsense that breeds in my mind. Yesterday I had this idea for a character that somehow I'm going to have to work into the increasingly bizarre world and storyline I have going on. It's a parasite and an old one at that, but one that can only communicate through memories, and by doing so it actually permanently alters the memories it enters into. The interesting thing is that over time it gained a form of sentience, and that's provided it with some degree o conscience. Every person it infects eventually becomes a babbling pile of insanity, as their memories are rewritten and they lose their very sense of self, their identity given by their memories, all gone changed, all inconsistent.
Now the parasite is happy to die at this point, but survival instinct keeps it going, what it won't do however is take another host against their will. Unfortunately, the knowledge it has is useful to a small civilisation, an empire, who're trying to figure out the nature of their world (their reality is more than a little broken, which by this point they've managed to prove), so the parasite is constantly offered sacrifices, willing sacrifices, people who do give themselves, freely, just so that they might learn of the nature of reality, so that they might have some of the answers before they go stark raving bonkers, utterly, frothingly, joyously, running-naked-through-the-streets mad.
The parasite knows much, but it doesn't know if it can figure out or tell them what they need to know, but on the off chance, people keep offering themselves for such sacred knowledge, some even hoping that their own will will prove strong eenough to keep their mind together whilst providing a host for the parasite.
A side reason as to why people are willing however is that they believe that the parasite also offers a form of pseudo-immortality, and this much is true, to an extent. The original memories, before communication, are absorbed into its ever growing complexity, and through this the parasite learns, as it has been learning for millennia. So the memories, if not the personality, are kept intact. They cannot be restored to their host form, as it just doesn't work this way, despite the parasite having attempted to do this, and having attemmpted to re-engineer itself to be able to do this, it just doesn't work.
It's an interesting case of how willing people are to enter willingly into self-destruction for knowledge, or power, and perhaps the promise of a form of immortality. And yes, those who offer themselves are old. They're not a civilisation of savages, so there are no children being offered up here.
The parasite itself is an intriguing character to me, and one that I'll very likely end up using as it opens the door to all sorts of interesting storytelling. Perhaps it'll be a case of finding someone old enough, someone who's lived for millennia theirself, and thus having enough memories to go around for half of them to be inconsistent, to have perhaps a number of mundane memories, even years of them, in which the parasite can exist and communicate. But they know of no such person yet. If that happens though, the combination of the two... appreciable possibilities for strangeness and unexpected turn outs there.
Hopefully that shared idea will make up for my acting all aloof. but doing so is fun, and I feel so bloody tired that I have no desire to pretend to be an incredibly likable person.
(Sorry for the long post, I see no spoiler tags and thus I can't fold some of it up under spoiler tags.)
In my opinion, GW2 is so popular because the public relations people are saying all the right things, and the majority of popular websites and magazines that have been given hands-on are saying good things, which causes some to believe that the company and developers can back up what's being said.
Where are the bad previews?
If you can tell me any, please show it to me.
I have seen only 1 bad review of GW2, and it complained how it isn't like LOTRO.
No, I can't as I have not read any, which is what I said in my post, pretty much. That was kind of my point. As cynical as I am with the entire genre at this point, GW2 is probably the game I expect the most out of, regarding upcoming titles. It doesn't look like you were the only one that misunderstood my post. That was probably just poor structure or semantics on my part.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
but wauh, theres been a lot going on in here even tho i've held back with poking at it, lot of reading material and a lot of different opinions ;D awesome
aactually i do have one question, miteshu writes that theres no auto attack, i found this interesting as in a video i saw (or atleast think i saw) was the classic 1 2 3 4 5 6 -however many key layout for skills/abilities, now if theres no auto attack, do you need to dodge roll -manage to hit 4- while navigating your camera to continue looking at the opponent? (if so i need a better constructed keyboard cause mine seems very poorly designed for mmorpgs)
in fact, completely out of subject if you'll forgive me, whats the best designed mmorpg keyboards out there? or atleast recommendable? im not talking about one with ILOVEWORLDOFWARCRAFT HEART HEART on the palm rest, but are there actually differences in keyboard size/form which benefits mmorpg gaming? making it easier to hit these button combinations etc
edit: also whats WvWvW? i've seen multiple people mention this but i just attempted to stop gaping in confusion and move on with the posts xD
and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
Originally posted by Urging2Pee edit: also whats WvWvW? i've seen multiple people mention this but i just attempted to stop gaping in confusion and move on with the posts xD and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Hey! so im figuring this will raise a LOT of of eyebrows, cringed noses and flapping arms in amazement-
But! -in a hushed voice- why IS guildwars 2 so hyped? i dont personally see it, -i mean no offense to anyone, if im misunderstood in any way, sorry on before hand
-below is mildly irelevant, but gives some information into understanding my situation
i've latest 2 games i've hyped about were Aion and Final fantasy 14(i recall it was 14? i lost track)
aion i found rather interesting, but i lost interest after grinding like a ..stone.. while being pked off my ..ground.. in the pk area- as there were nowhere else to level up, as team up places were deserted completely- could never find a team and so on-
final fantasy 14, i was hyping about cause i found it different, very interesting graphics and so on, never played the first final fantasy mmorpg and i had researched the button layout might be different as it was originally aimed at a controller or something, except i found the navigation horrible could never find my places and as a mage, i found every time i pressed '1' or however it works, it'd decide itself what spell it'd throw at the opponent, was a huge blob of confusion for me, in which i quit a month in or so -as well,
i felt hugely let down by both these games (which i probably waited half a year- year for) i know, im a terrible gamer lol and i mean no offense to anyone who plays these games which i've failed at, cause im the one missing out.
back to the subject- now you may ignore the above; xD (after probably reading it)
i dont understand what the huge hype is about, it doesnt seem very different from other stuff, plus i noticed a post for a lot of technology classes, which im personally not a fan of in my mmorpgs as im into the whole 'fantasy' natury genre,
im messing up a lot here.. my basic question is just.. whats the big fuss? whats the hype? can we get some conversation up on talking about why its so good? is this just hyped up by the original player base of guildwars in which the whole community has joined in?
An Urged Pee.
Because it promises to "fix" everything players don't like in themepark MMOs, and it's b2p.
this is funny..made me lol in rl..i willing to lay 100$ down and say its more of the same..alot more of the same in fact
why would not think this isnt goning to be "more of the same" this theampark thing people are talking about is the new wave of mmo's...altho i hate it..but its the truth and i see ncsoft / gw franchise grasping the moment and grabbing that cash cow as quick as possible....expect the expected...more of the same
aactually i do have one question, miteshu writes that theres no auto attack <snip>
edit: also whats WvWvW? i've seen multiple people mention this but i just attempted to stop gaping in confusion and move on with the posts xD
and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
Actually, you can apparently right-click on a skill to turn it into your default "auto-attack" if you wish. So if you'd rather have your default attack being a different skill, you can set it yourself. They mean there is no "default" auto-attack.
WvWvW is short for World vs. World vs. World. Its a PvPvE area, where three servers go up against eachother. Each server has its own "home" map, and there is a central map that joins all three (and this is where most of the battles are likely to take place). This is meant to be more casual-firendly PvP (its simply fight for survival, and help your server with goals, like taking down important points, like enemy supply lines and forts). Since there are three servers in a battle, it prevents one side from always dominating the other (like how Aion could get lop-sided). This is a voluntary area, you can choose to go there (knowing the inherent risks; this is where you are likely to get PK'd by players from other factions if they find you).
As for the crafting, the "no-nonsense" part likely just refers to crafting being pretty straightforward, with no RNG determining the quality of crafted items. If you have all the materials needed, and are the appropriate level, the item gets crafted with no drama. Its not a fancy system. There was actually a lot of disappointment from a lot of people that Anet didn't innovate crafting much, they really just streamlined it and removed some of the angst.
and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
Crafting consists of finding materials and going to a crafting station and making the desired object. It incorporates a puzzle element to it where you can put different kinds of materials or pieces of an object (such as an axe blade or a handle) and try to make something that you don't have a recipe for. If you already have the recipe then you can skip all of the guessing and simply make the desired object. You can also craft enhancements for your gear such as a poisonous hilt that you can attach to a sword you already own to make it cause poisonous damage.
Crafting & Gathering
The crafting professions are:
Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters.
Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Players can have two active crafting professions. Professions can be swapped at a cost, when relearning the previous profession you start at the level you left off, the higher the level the higher the cost of switching professions. Recipes can be discovered by putting in the four correct items to create that item in the crafting interface, recipes will also be available as drops. Crafting will take place at a workstation.
Gathering - all players can gather, there are no gathering professions to choose from. Nodes spawn so that each player can gather individually, you don't have to worry about someone stealing the node you are clearing mobs to reach, your quota will still be there.
this is funny..made me lol in rl..i willing to lay 100$ down and say its more of the same..alot more of the same in fact
why would not think this isnt goning to be "more of the same" this theampark thing people are talking about is the new wave of mmo's...altho i hate it..but its the truth and i see ncsoft / gw franchise grasping the moment and grabbing that cash cow as quick as possible....expect the expected...more of the same
I will take your 100 dollar bet. If anything you seem seriously misinformed about how ANet goes about things... I'm not saying "OMG GW2 WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF GAMING!!11!!" Because it won't. What it WILL be is a solid, polished product if the amount of dedication these guys show is any indication. It WILL be a fun B2P MMO that, while not blowing everything else out of the water, will provide an interesting change from the norm. And another thing: if the "gw franchise" was in it for the cash grab, they would have released the game already when hype was highest, not told us all to sit tight with no indication of release date (don't bring up IGN's Nov release date, because I call BS on that until ANet releases the date themselves/confirms it).
this is funny..made me lol in rl..i willing to lay 100$ down and say its more of the same..alot more of the same in fact
why would not think this isnt goning to be "more of the same" this theampark thing people are talking about is the new wave of mmo's...altho i hate it..but its the truth and i see ncsoft / gw franchise grasping the moment and grabbing that cash cow as quick as possible....expect the expected...more of the same
The following rant is in response to the use of the phrase "more of the same"...
well, some people will look at it and see pixles and say its been done before.
Anyways,,,Some people will look at it and see a story based MMO and say "thats being done by bioware, how can they compete?" Some people will see the skill bar UI and tab targeting and say "Tera, Darkfall, vindictus, and mortal online are true action MMOs...this isn't." Some people will see the graphics and say AoC has higher graphics. Some people will see the dynamic events and say they will fail because PQs in WAR sucked and rifts in rift aren't all that special. Some people will see the WvWvW PvP and say open world PvP is better. Some people will see arena PvP and say open world PvP is better. Some people will see the character models and say the characters look too pretty. Some people will look at the armor and say it doesn't cover enough. Some people will say the crafting isn't anything to write home about. Some people will say that a game without the trinity will fail. Some people will look at the cash shop and say that all cash shops are bad and it will fail. Some people will say that a B2P game can't compete. Some people will say that this game will come out in november. Some people say NCsoft is making this game.
people say and think the darnedest things sometimes...
There are a lot of people that just don't like doing there own research or forming there own opinion on a topic, and I find it annoying. I would accept that $100 bet but I would use most of it to buy you the game so that you could play it for yourself and see what kind of game GW2 ACTUALLY is.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
Crafting consists of finding materials and going to a crafting station and making the desired object. It incorporates a puzzle element to it where you can put different kinds of materials or pieces of an object (such as an axe blade or a handle) and try to make something that you don't have a recipe for. If you already have the recipe then you can skip all of the guessing and simply make the desired object. You can also craft enhancements for your gear such as a poisonous hilt that you can attach to a sword you already own to make it cause poisonous damage.
Crafting & Gathering
The crafting professions are:
Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters.
Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Players can have two active crafting professions. Professions can be swapped at a cost, when relearning the previous profession you start at the level you left off, the higher the level the higher the cost of switching professions. Recipes can be discovered by putting in the four correct items to create that item in the crafting interface, recipes will also be available as drops. Crafting will take place at a workstation.
Gathering - all players can gather, there are no gathering professions to choose from. Nodes spawn so that each player can gather individually, you don't have to worry about someone stealing the node you are clearing mobs to reach, your quota will still be there.
I'm an avid fan of GW2 (I'll admit it here and now). But something just hit me about the crafting system and the ability to switch between professions. Despite the devs saying "it's fun to craft in our game ^^" There will inevitably be those who just want to get to the highest level possible and start farming money using those high level crafting skills. Another inevitability is that one profession, say Cooking, might/will be more easy and less tedious than Armorer. Now say I want to get to level 80/whatever Armorer, but that would take WEEKS of "grinding" (again, I know, I know, they've said it won't be grindy, but bear with me), whereas Cooking would take significantly shorter time. Assuming I've got the base cash to switch professions, what's stopping me from just using Cooking as a stepping stone to get to level 80 Armorer in less than half the time it should take? Just a thought.
and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
Crafting consists of finding materials and going to a crafting station and making the desired object. It incorporates a puzzle element to it where you can put different kinds of materials or pieces of an object (such as an axe blade or a handle) and try to make something that you don't have a recipe for. If you already have the recipe then you can skip all of the guessing and simply make the desired object. You can also craft enhancements for your gear such as a poisonous hilt that you can attach to a sword you already own to make it cause poisonous damage.
Crafting & Gathering
The crafting professions are:
Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters.
Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Players can have two active crafting professions. Professions can be swapped at a cost, when relearning the previous profession you start at the level you left off, the higher the level the higher the cost of switching professions. Recipes can be discovered by putting in the four correct items to create that item in the crafting interface, recipes will also be available as drops. Crafting will take place at a workstation.
Gathering - all players can gather, there are no gathering professions to choose from. Nodes spawn so that each player can gather individually, you don't have to worry about someone stealing the node you are clearing mobs to reach, your quota will still be there.
I'm an avid fan of GW2 (I'll admit it here and now). But something just hit me about the crafting system and the ability to switch between professions. Despite the devs saying "it's fun to craft in our game ^^" There will inevitably be those who just want to get to the highest level possible and start farming money using those high level crafting skills. Another inevitability is that one profession, say Cooking, might/will be more easy and less tedious than Armorer. Now say I want to get to level 80/whatever Armorer, but that would take WEEKS of "grinding" (again, I know, I know, they've said it won't be grindy, but bear with me), whereas Cooking would take significantly shorter time. Assuming I've got the base cash to switch professions, what's stopping me from just using Cooking as a stepping stone to get to level 80 Armorer in less than half the time it should take? Just a thought.
If you level up cooking only, then cooking is the only thing you leveled up. Everything else is still at the very start. Leveling up cooking all they way and then swithing the Armorer will only be at the beginning.
My concern about crafting was never about leveling up or switching roles in and of itself. The problem i have is the lack of need from other people during this crafting process.
You can level up cooking all the way up, switch to smithing, level that up all the way, rinse repeat for all crafting skills, you can switch between these anytime you need a piece of armor, a weapon, some food and anything else, thus basically making it so you never need to interact with the community at all. and the stuff you put up on AH will only be useful to people who are either buying gear to fight with or for people who are not willing to do all the work required for to level up said skill
Basically it falls into the problem if i can make everything i'll ever need beyond say mob drops, why would i ever want to go to an AH or buy things from others. Especially seeing as nodes are phased so you don't even have the problem with certain items being more rare then others. As long as you know where they are, you could basically level up all day, get all the crafting skills up to max level. Then just make everything you ever would need, and completely forgo the community.
Really hoping theres some interdependacies with the community somewhere, I'm interested in the game but the things like not requiring groups for most of the content (the DEs) crafting can be done on your own, PvP could be done without ever talking to others. Just seems like it's going down a path where they are too worried people might have to interact with each other. Least dungeons still requires you to group.
It's possible i'm missing stuff and i'm sure i most likely am, just not too thrilled that i can basically go through this game in almost its entirety without ever hitting the group button and do just fine.
Just my view point on it.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
My concern about crafting was never about leveling up or switching roles in and of itself. The problem i have is the lack of need from other people during this crafting process.
You can level up cooking all the way up, switch to smithing, level that up all the way, rinse repeat for all crafting skills, you can switch between these anytime you need a piece of armor, a weapon, some food and anything else, thus basically making it so you never need to interact with the community at all. and the stuff you put up on AH will only be useful to people who are either buying gear to fight with or for people who are not willing to do all the work required for to level up said skill
Basically it falls into the problem if i can make everything i'll ever need beyond say mob drops, why would i ever want to go to an AH or buy things from others. Especially seeing as nodes are phased so you don't even have the problem with certain items being more rare then others. As long as you know where they are, you could basically level up all day, get all the crafting skills up to max level. Then just make everything you ever would need, and completely forgo the community.
Really hoping theres some interdependacies with the community somewhere, I'm interested in the game but the things like not requiring groups for most of the content (the DEs) crafting can be done on your own, PvP could be done without ever talking to others. Just seems like it's going down a path where they are too worried people might have to interact with each other. Least dungeons still requires you to group.
It's possible i'm missing stuff and i'm sure i most likely am, just not too thrilled that i can basically go through this game in almost its entirety without ever hitting the group button and do just fine.
but wauh, theres been a lot going on in here even tho i've held back with poking at it, lot of reading material and a lot of different opinions ;D awesome
My concern about crafting was never about leveling up or switching roles in and of itself. The problem i have is the lack of need from other people during this crafting process.
You can level up cooking all the way up, switch to smithing, level that up all the way, rinse repeat for all crafting skills, you can switch between these anytime you need a piece of armor, a weapon, some food and anything else, thus basically making it so you never need to interact with the community at all. and the stuff you put up on AH will only be useful to people who are either buying gear to fight with or for people who are not willing to do all the work required for to level up said skill
Basically it falls into the problem if i can make everything i'll ever need beyond say mob drops, why would i ever want to go to an AH or buy things from others. Especially seeing as nodes are phased so you don't even have the problem with certain items being more rare then others. As long as you know where they are, you could basically level up all day, get all the crafting skills up to max level. Then just make everything you ever would need, and completely forgo the community.
Really hoping theres some interdependacies with the community somewhere, I'm interested in the game but the things like not requiring groups for most of the content (the DEs) crafting can be done on your own, PvP could be done without ever talking to others. Just seems like it's going down a path where they are too worried people might have to interact with each other. Least dungeons still requires you to group.
It's possible i'm missing stuff and i'm sure i most likely am, just not too thrilled that i can basically go through this game in almost its entirety without ever hitting the group button and do just fine.
Just my view point on it.
Changing crafting professions costs money, if I'm not mistaken. So if you don't want to spend a fortune on different items you want to acquire, you'll have to ask other people to make those items for you. But for now, there's no info on how much a crafting proff. change actually costs.
They're the latest installent of developers promising the world and then underdelivering.
IF (and this a a huge if given the scale of what they're hyping) they can deliever on everything they've shown us, then it will be worth the hype it's received here. However, given how much I thought GW1 sucked, I have serious doubt they can deliever.
The 2.3 million people that bought the first game and each of its campaigns disagree with you.
My concern about crafting was never about leveling up or switching roles in and of itself. The problem i have is the lack of need from other people during this crafting process.
You can level up cooking all the way up, switch to smithing, level that up all the way, rinse repeat for all crafting skills, you can switch between these anytime you need a piece of armor, a weapon, some food and anything else, thus basically making it so you never need to interact with the community at all. and the stuff you put up on AH will only be useful to people who are either buying gear to fight with or for people who are not willing to do all the work required for to level up said skill
Basically it falls into the problem if i can make everything i'll ever need beyond say mob drops, why would i ever want to go to an AH or buy things from others. Especially seeing as nodes are phased so you don't even have the problem with certain items being more rare then others. As long as you know where they are, you could basically level up all day, get all the crafting skills up to max level. Then just make everything you ever would need, and completely forgo the community.
Really hoping theres some interdependacies with the community somewhere, I'm interested in the game but the things like not requiring groups for most of the content (the DEs) crafting can be done on your own, PvP could be done without ever talking to others. Just seems like it's going down a path where they are too worried people might have to interact with each other. Least dungeons still requires you to group.
It's possible i'm missing stuff and i'm sure i most likely am, just not too thrilled that i can basically go through this game in almost its entirety without ever hitting the group button and do just fine.
Just my view point on it.
The question is, does everyone want to spend the time to level every profession to 80? When they could be making more gold just staying on what they already leveled? Some people won't, in fact I think most people won't. I fell only a select few will do this because they feel its worth their time and those people will reap the benefits but as for the rest, I'm guessing they are just going to be happy buying their stuff from the Marketplace.
It isn't a WoW clone like most MMOs that have been released in the past 5 years. I mean it is disgusting how much a game like Rift is just a clone of WoW, I don't want to play the same game with different graphics.
I don't know that GW2 is going to be an amazing game but since it is taking some chances and not just cloning WoW I'm interested in trying it for sure.
The question is, does everyone want to spend the time to level every profession to 80? When they could be making more gold just staying on what they already leveled? Some people won't, in fact I think most people won't. I fell only a select few will do this because they feel its worth their time and those people will reap the benefits but as for the rest, I'm guessing they are just going to be happy buying their stuff from the Marketplace.
Most will have multiple 80s if they play the game long. As long as the game doesn't have an extended end game progression like EQ did with AA you will find a majority of players would rather just level up an alt than grind away at max level constantly.
Comments
*teardrop*
Auxiliary...That was an epic first post!
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**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
You should rewrite that without sounding like an aloof prick. Lots of interesting ideals and theories and I enjoyed the read. But you sprinkled the whole thing with this condescending attitude that makes you come off as an arrogant tool that thinks most people are beneath your intellect. And that kind of ruined it for me. But other than that, I like your imagination and your hope for the genre.
First off your use of the word Schill toward the Anet employee is a deregatory remark of the highest magnitude and shows your bias and Fanboyism to another MMO and your hatred to Guildwars so I really shouldnt go any further but I will for arguments sake.
If you disregarded your own complete nonsenical statement "turn off the volumn" then you would of heard the presenter state this is a high level area and that the players were underlevel but attmpting the content anyway. Also you might happen to notice that the person playing that theif was absolutely terrible in every sense of the word. Rolling back for fun and normal movement yet when the boss telegraphs a kill shot she stands right there. On top of every thing else she was keyboard turning and mouse clicking their skills, the universally agreed upon indicator for a baddie.
Let me guess you a ToR fanboi?
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Most take me as an aloof prick anyway, I'm just playing up to the fabrication because it's fun to do so. Whether anyone reads it and finds any worth in it is up to them. Though I do speak truth - I am so incredibly tired of fantasy never trying to reinvent itself. It's the equivalent of the little hermit, sitting in his house all alone, he never redecorates, cleans, or dusts anything, and everything remains the same forever. That's what some people seem to want out of fantasy. And... I am so tired of that. I'm the sort of person who craves change, if I were in a more eccentric mood I might even ascribe myself to the philosophies of the chaos magician, because I thrive on ideas. They're my personal currency and stock in trade, and new ones, especially original ones that manage to inspire me are those I value and covet the most.
I'm also more than a little sick of pretending that I have to like this sickeningly decadent state of affairs tha the genre has gotten itself into. If I make myself unpopular from the start then I'm just being honest, and folks will know where they stand. Really, if someone agrees with me then they won't find me all that aloof or so much of a prick in the first place, and they might even see that I'm just having a little fun. So really, it just comes down to what people want to see. And I will also note that there is an air of contradiction to your words, for often you won't find arrogant tools providing any sort of illumination.
And I haven't begun to share the depths of my imagination, really. That I'm working into a book of my own that I hope to finish up one day, eventually, when I get around to it. Until then I'm dreaming up new things and collating notes, jotting down ideas and things, and it's looking more and more like the output one might expect if iain M Banks and Grant Morrison managed to conceive a child. New Age Science-Fantasy stuff. The sort of thing I'd like to see, no less. It may be fun to think I'd want to lead by example but my self-opinion isn't what I pretend it to be, so my work is wrought with lots'n lots of happy little doubt bubbles.
Of course, it's easy to see that this is likely where some of my frustration comes from. It'd be easy for me to just give up on lofty, crazed ideas that might not be so quickly absorbed or understood and concentrate instead upon a boring, down to earth fantasy, selling myself out in the process, just to create something that would be easy for myself to conceive, and for the majority to digest. But the easy way is never the right way, or even the fun way, but all too often in this genre--at least in regards to videogames--I see people taking the easy way. Because there's money in the easy way.
Though I do respect, admire, and bloody love ArenaNet for not taking the easy way.
To finish up, I'll share an example, a taste of the sort of gleefully unashamed utter nonsense that breeds in my mind. Yesterday I had this idea for a character that somehow I'm going to have to work into the increasingly bizarre world and storyline I have going on. It's a parasite and an old one at that, but one that can only communicate through memories, and by doing so it actually permanently alters the memories it enters into. The interesting thing is that over time it gained a form of sentience, and that's provided it with some degree o conscience. Every person it infects eventually becomes a babbling pile of insanity, as their memories are rewritten and they lose their very sense of self, their identity given by their memories, all gone changed, all inconsistent.
Now the parasite is happy to die at this point, but survival instinct keeps it going, what it won't do however is take another host against their will. Unfortunately, the knowledge it has is useful to a small civilisation, an empire, who're trying to figure out the nature of their world (their reality is more than a little broken, which by this point they've managed to prove), so the parasite is constantly offered sacrifices, willing sacrifices, people who do give themselves, freely, just so that they might learn of the nature of reality, so that they might have some of the answers before they go stark raving bonkers, utterly, frothingly, joyously, running-naked-through-the-streets mad.
The parasite knows much, but it doesn't know if it can figure out or tell them what they need to know, but on the off chance, people keep offering themselves for such sacred knowledge, some even hoping that their own will will prove strong eenough to keep their mind together whilst providing a host for the parasite.
A side reason as to why people are willing however is that they believe that the parasite also offers a form of pseudo-immortality, and this much is true, to an extent. The original memories, before communication, are absorbed into its ever growing complexity, and through this the parasite learns, as it has been learning for millennia. So the memories, if not the personality, are kept intact. They cannot be restored to their host form, as it just doesn't work this way, despite the parasite having attempted to do this, and having attemmpted to re-engineer itself to be able to do this, it just doesn't work.
It's an interesting case of how willing people are to enter willingly into self-destruction for knowledge, or power, and perhaps the promise of a form of immortality. And yes, those who offer themselves are old. They're not a civilisation of savages, so there are no children being offered up here.
The parasite itself is an intriguing character to me, and one that I'll very likely end up using as it opens the door to all sorts of interesting storytelling. Perhaps it'll be a case of finding someone old enough, someone who's lived for millennia theirself, and thus having enough memories to go around for half of them to be inconsistent, to have perhaps a number of mundane memories, even years of them, in which the parasite can exist and communicate. But they know of no such person yet. If that happens though, the combination of the two... appreciable possibilities for strangeness and unexpected turn outs there.
Hopefully that shared idea will make up for my acting all aloof. but doing so is fun, and I feel so bloody tired that I have no desire to pretend to be an incredibly likable person.
(Sorry for the long post, I see no spoiler tags and thus I can't fold some of it up under spoiler tags.)
No, I can't as I have not read any, which is what I said in my post, pretty much. That was kind of my point. As cynical as I am with the entire genre at this point, GW2 is probably the game I expect the most out of, regarding upcoming titles. It doesn't look like you were the only one that misunderstood my post. That was probably just poor structure or semantics on my part.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
^ i dont get that O.o,
but wauh, theres been a lot going on in here even tho i've held back with poking at it, lot of reading material and a lot of different opinions ;D awesome
aactually i do have one question, miteshu writes that theres no auto attack, i found this interesting as in a video i saw (or atleast think i saw) was the classic 1 2 3 4 5 6 -however many key layout for skills/abilities, now if theres no auto attack, do you need to dodge roll -manage to hit 4- while navigating your camera to continue looking at the opponent? (if so i need a better constructed keyboard cause mine seems very poorly designed for mmorpgs)
in fact, completely out of subject if you'll forgive me, whats the best designed mmorpg keyboards out there? or atleast recommendable? im not talking about one with ILOVEWORLDOFWARCRAFT HEART HEART on the palm rest, but are there actually differences in keyboard size/form which benefits mmorpg gaming? making it easier to hit these button combinations etc
edit: also whats WvWvW? i've seen multiple people mention this but i just attempted to stop gaping in confusion and move on with the posts xD
and what do you mean by no nonesense crafting? does it mean theres no crafting or that you cant make a sword out of a leaf O_o CAUSE YOU CAN! if you coat the leaf in metal! HUAH! ..or if its magic... the magic leaf of swording...stuff..
World v World v World
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World
It's awesome.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
this is funny..made me lol in rl..i willing to lay 100$ down and say its more of the same..alot more of the same in fact
why would not think this isnt goning to be "more of the same" this theampark thing people are talking about is the new wave of mmo's...altho i hate it..but its the truth and i see ncsoft / gw franchise grasping the moment and grabbing that cash cow as quick as possible....expect the expected...more of the same
Actually, you can apparently right-click on a skill to turn it into your default "auto-attack" if you wish. So if you'd rather have your default attack being a different skill, you can set it yourself. They mean there is no "default" auto-attack.
WvWvW is short for World vs. World vs. World. Its a PvPvE area, where three servers go up against eachother. Each server has its own "home" map, and there is a central map that joins all three (and this is where most of the battles are likely to take place). This is meant to be more casual-firendly PvP (its simply fight for survival, and help your server with goals, like taking down important points, like enemy supply lines and forts). Since there are three servers in a battle, it prevents one side from always dominating the other (like how Aion could get lop-sided). This is a voluntary area, you can choose to go there (knowing the inherent risks; this is where you are likely to get PK'd by players from other factions if they find you).
As for the crafting, the "no-nonsense" part likely just refers to crafting being pretty straightforward, with no RNG determining the quality of crafted items. If you have all the materials needed, and are the appropriate level, the item gets crafted with no drama. Its not a fancy system. There was actually a lot of disappointment from a lot of people that Anet didn't innovate crafting much, they really just streamlined it and removed some of the angst.
Crafting consists of finding materials and going to a crafting station and making the desired object. It incorporates a puzzle element to it where you can put different kinds of materials or pieces of an object (such as an axe blade or a handle) and try to make something that you don't have a recipe for. If you already have the recipe then you can skip all of the guessing and simply make the desired object. You can also craft enhancements for your gear such as a poisonous hilt that you can attach to a sword you already own to make it cause poisonous damage.
Crafting & Gathering
The crafting professions are:
Weaponsmith – Weaponsmiths craft melee weapons, such as swords, axes and hammers.
Huntsman – Huntsmen craft ranged weapons like bows and pistol, as well as torches and warhorns.
Artificer– Artificers craft magical weapons such as staves and scepters.
Armorsmith – Armorsmiths craft heavy armor pieces.
Leatherworker – Leatherworkers craft medium armor pieces.
Tailor – Tailors craft light armor pieces.
Jewelcrafter – Jewelcrafters craft jewelry, such as rings and necklaces.
Cook – Cooks can prepare food which characters can eat for temporary combat buffs.
Players can have two active crafting professions. Professions can be swapped at a cost, when relearning the previous profession you start at the level you left off, the higher the level the higher the cost of switching professions. Recipes can be discovered by putting in the four correct items to create that item in the crafting interface, recipes will also be available as drops. Crafting will take place at a workstation.
Gathering - all players can gather, there are no gathering professions to choose from. Nodes spawn so that each player can gather individually, you don't have to worry about someone stealing the node you are clearing mobs to reach, your quota will still be there.
See Andrew Mcleod Talks Crafting
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/287180/Everything-We-Know-about-GW2.html
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:2011_March_crafting_tab.jpg
I will take your 100 dollar bet. If anything you seem seriously misinformed about how ANet goes about things... I'm not saying "OMG GW2 WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF GAMING!!11!!" Because it won't. What it WILL be is a solid, polished product if the amount of dedication these guys show is any indication. It WILL be a fun B2P MMO that, while not blowing everything else out of the water, will provide an interesting change from the norm. And another thing: if the "gw franchise" was in it for the cash grab, they would have released the game already when hype was highest, not told us all to sit tight with no indication of release date (don't bring up IGN's Nov release date, because I call BS on that until ANet releases the date themselves/confirms it).
The following rant is in response to the use of the phrase "more of the same"...
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well, some people will look at it and see pixles and say its been done before.
Anyways,,,Some people will look at it and see a story based MMO and say "thats being done by bioware, how can they compete?" Some people will see the skill bar UI and tab targeting and say "Tera, Darkfall, vindictus, and mortal online are true action MMOs...this isn't." Some people will see the graphics and say AoC has higher graphics. Some people will see the dynamic events and say they will fail because PQs in WAR sucked and rifts in rift aren't all that special. Some people will see the WvWvW PvP and say open world PvP is better. Some people will see arena PvP and say open world PvP is better. Some people will see the character models and say the characters look too pretty. Some people will look at the armor and say it doesn't cover enough. Some people will say the crafting isn't anything to write home about. Some people will say that a game without the trinity will fail. Some people will look at the cash shop and say that all cash shops are bad and it will fail. Some people will say that a B2P game can't compete. Some people will say that this game will come out in november. Some people say NCsoft is making this game.
people say and think the darnedest things sometimes...
There are a lot of people that just don't like doing there own research or forming there own opinion on a topic, and I find it annoying. I would accept that $100 bet but I would use most of it to buy you the game so that you could play it for yourself and see what kind of game GW2 ACTUALLY is.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I'm an avid fan of GW2 (I'll admit it here and now). But something just hit me about the crafting system and the ability to switch between professions. Despite the devs saying "it's fun to craft in our game ^^" There will inevitably be those who just want to get to the highest level possible and start farming money using those high level crafting skills. Another inevitability is that one profession, say Cooking, might/will be more easy and less tedious than Armorer. Now say I want to get to level 80/whatever Armorer, but that would take WEEKS of "grinding" (again, I know, I know, they've said it won't be grindy, but bear with me), whereas Cooking would take significantly shorter time. Assuming I've got the base cash to switch professions, what's stopping me from just using Cooking as a stepping stone to get to level 80 Armorer in less than half the time it should take? Just a thought.
If you level up cooking only, then cooking is the only thing you leveled up. Everything else is still at the very start. Leveling up cooking all they way and then swithing the Armorer will only be at the beginning.
My concern about crafting was never about leveling up or switching roles in and of itself. The problem i have is the lack of need from other people during this crafting process.
You can level up cooking all the way up, switch to smithing, level that up all the way, rinse repeat for all crafting skills, you can switch between these anytime you need a piece of armor, a weapon, some food and anything else, thus basically making it so you never need to interact with the community at all. and the stuff you put up on AH will only be useful to people who are either buying gear to fight with or for people who are not willing to do all the work required for to level up said skill
Basically it falls into the problem if i can make everything i'll ever need beyond say mob drops, why would i ever want to go to an AH or buy things from others. Especially seeing as nodes are phased so you don't even have the problem with certain items being more rare then others. As long as you know where they are, you could basically level up all day, get all the crafting skills up to max level. Then just make everything you ever would need, and completely forgo the community.
Really hoping theres some interdependacies with the community somewhere, I'm interested in the game but the things like not requiring groups for most of the content (the DEs) crafting can be done on your own, PvP could be done without ever talking to others. Just seems like it's going down a path where they are too worried people might have to interact with each other. Least dungeons still requires you to group.
It's possible i'm missing stuff and i'm sure i most likely am, just not too thrilled that i can basically go through this game in almost its entirety without ever hitting the group button and do just fine.
Just my view point on it.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Thats basically every game nowadays.
@rom: Ohhhhh. That makes SO much more sense XD I've been going for a while now thinking that it was level up one and the other is the same level XD.
I had post number 101.
Changing crafting professions costs money, if I'm not mistaken. So if you don't want to spend a fortune on different items you want to acquire, you'll have to ask other people to make those items for you. But for now, there's no info on how much a crafting proff. change actually costs.
Eat me!
The 2.3 million people that bought the first game and each of its campaigns disagree with you.
This is not a game.
The question is, does everyone want to spend the time to level every profession to 80? When they could be making more gold just staying on what they already leveled? Some people won't, in fact I think most people won't. I fell only a select few will do this because they feel its worth their time and those people will reap the benefits but as for the rest, I'm guessing they are just going to be happy buying their stuff from the Marketplace.
This is not a game.
...No subscription? I mean, for me, that's why I'm gona buy it.
________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."
It isn't a WoW clone like most MMOs that have been released in the past 5 years. I mean it is disgusting how much a game like Rift is just a clone of WoW, I don't want to play the same game with different graphics.
I don't know that GW2 is going to be an amazing game but since it is taking some chances and not just cloning WoW I'm interested in trying it for sure.
Most will have multiple 80s if they play the game long. As long as the game doesn't have an extended end game progression like EQ did with AA you will find a majority of players would rather just level up an alt than grind away at max level constantly.
obviously some of the same players bought the other games too but GW has sold over 7 million
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/05/15/guild-wars-2-preview-2/
“We sold around seven million copies of Guild Wars 1,” Mike (OBrien) says, “and have been really successful
EQ2 fan sites