Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away away. When danger reared it's ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about And gallantly he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, He beat a very brave retreat. Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin!
Permadeath, could be interesting if the game is designed for this from the ground up. But I dont think PvP + Permadeath is a good combination, players are just too devious and always find ways to grief people. If the PvP gets in it wont be a completely open system me thinks (perhaps flagging, different types of servers, no intra-guild attacking etc)
Originally posted by mutombo55 Permadeath, could be interesting if the game is designed for this from the ground up. But I dont think PvP + Permadeath is a good combination, players are just too devious and always find ways to grief people. If the PvP gets in it wont be a completely open system me thinks (perhaps flagging, different types of servers, no intra-guild attacking etc)
I think its quite nice balance with respect and reputation.
You CAN'T pass through dungeons solo. If you start backstabbing your party members you most likely never get into dungeon again or you will get perma-killed next time someone invites you.
Not to mention that game offers you the chance to NOT-get permakilled if you can recover the body as well as a backup solution where your next character would inherit the storage of equipment you can leave for him.
There are quite a few ffa pvp games living successfully in this world.
EVE for example has A VERY perma-deathy death stuff(dying without a backup will do a lot more bad things than just frack over your ship) and pretty much allows backstabbing and other things and the game lives and thrives.
Its all in the execution.
In games like darkfall or MO, ffa pvp is an afterthought. When game actually is built from ground up with those features in mind, its different.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
There are quite a few ffa pvp games living successfully in this world. - Name them please.
EVE for example has A VERY perma-deathy death stuff(dying without a backup will do a lot more bad things than just frack over your ship) and pretty much allows backstabbing and other things and the game lives and thrives.
EVE is anything but perma-death, dying without a clone back up is rare and when it happens the player loses one (1) level of his longest trained skill. I've seen players rage quit when this happened.
It is not a FFA PVP game in the truest sense, there are very large safe areas where players can enjoy the universe and in fact, more than 75% of them live there for that reason.
True, no area in EVE is totally safe, but you have to do something very wrong to die in high sec, smart playing will keep the player from dying there in almost every situation.
Yes, EVE lives and thrives, but understand that it forces players to join large corporations and alliances to really survive and prosper in 0.0.
You rarely get to group with random people, it is too risky to do so, and if someone asked me to bring my Golem out to Low Sec for a quick Level 5 mission run or what have you I'd have to respectfully decline, just couldn't trust them.
I'd actually go along with the perma death concept, but never would I agree to FFA PVP with full loot in dungeons. (note they allow 100 man groups). That would mean you could only go into a dungeon with your guildmates, and that's just too limiting in book for a game of this nature. Your guild would also have to be zerg like in nature, because you're not likely to find people to trust in a large situation otherwise.
I remember playing on DAOC's Mordred server (which I loved) and while it didn't have full loot, it was FFA and what I described above was totally true. I remember whenever we'd set aside our differences and try to work together with another guild for a Dragon fight or something, wasn't long before one of two things happened, either the people we were working turned on us (or we turned on them) or another group came along and attacked during our weakest moment.
Only time I was ever able to beat a dragon was with Shadowclan, a role playing zerg guild that had the numbers to take it down solo with no help. (and no one interupted us that day)
As currently designed this game has no shot in the West to appeal to anything but a small niche market.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Too many carebears QQing about permadeath. Here's a solution, don't play this game if you don't like the concept. This way we won't be plagued with a crappy community that hold-your-hand games always have and we won't have to play with stupid people.
This game will definitely bring out a lot more survival instincts in players which other games don't even think about. I think that seeing a high level player in this game will be an achievement in itself. Additionally, being a GEARED high level player will be an even greater achievement since you made it through that far in the game without perma dying.
This is a game that I definitely want. It's about time we get a hardcore game to come out that will also weed out the baddies in a community.
I will definately try this game out. I have been craving for a game with harsh death penalties and I absolutely love the wizardry franchise. I really hope the game will have interesting dungeons where you actually can get lost. I just hope the cash shop wont ruin the game as it did with Allods.
If only it wasn't a foreign company that was doing it, I really look foward to returning to playing a mmorpg where risk/reward means something, where team work pays off. I just tend to be doubtful of companies pulling off a game that will draw many of us when they aren't from our culture. Cultural differences and points of view make for rather odd game results/game play/game mechanics.
The advantage to a Japanese developer putting this out is that it increases the likelihood of it staying true to the original gameplay as much as possible. If an NA company got a hold of it, you could kiss traps, mazes, permadeath and all the other features that fans liked goodbye. Wizardry has a cult following here in NA, but still has a strong following in Japan
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Requiamer Good will watch this game closely. Perma death, ho man it that even possible? This mean this game will have no tank/healer/dps either? HO my !!!!
The concept is more about strategy and coordination in dungeon crawling than tank and spank(as well as knowing when to run). SOMETIMES, its a lot more worthwhile AVOIDING monsters and sneaking past them to reach your goal than engaging them.
Its a basic riskvs rewards - do you open the chest, trying to disarm it and either get severly hurt/get the loot inside or do you leave it alone. Do you confront the terible beast in the hallway or do you run the hell away. Do you go with the biggest party you can muster or the most trusted people in smaller one. Do you leave the best equips in the storage so if you die next character of yours can use them, or do you take them to use in dungeon. Do you go further the maze trusting in your capabilities and health or do you turn back before getting lost in it.
Also note that it features old-school character-rolling in that you roll a number at the char creation screen and upon that your starter stats and growth depend.
Game also features active dodge systems and twitch combat.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
For those interested, this bit of Massively article is interesting:
To blunt the pain of a permanent character loss, players can stash gear, weapons, and valuables in a "cloak room" that is accessible to their next toons.
basically you can still retain your valuables if you manage your inventory well and do not play around the places for weeks with crowded inventory
I knew it! I knew they'd do something to make it a bit less harsh, but I actually think that's a good idea. That's a little like Salem's idea of perma-death, with your children being able to make use of all that you acquired over your last character's lifetime. To me, this makes a lot more sense.
The only issue is people will end up leaving all their Uber gear at home so as not to lose it, but that's sort of to be expected. Still, I see this is a reasonable compromise. I still think it will have a niche audience, but I see a lot less rage-quitting with this as a feature.
This could have some positive balancing effects. For instance, lower-grade gear will still be valuable, because people wont want to risk their best stuff on relatively mundane events, they'll save it for the big stuff.
If only it wasn't a foreign company that was doing it, I really look foward to returning to playing a mmorpg where risk/reward means something, where team work pays off. I just tend to be doubtful of companies pulling off a game that will draw many of us when they aren't from our culture. Cultural differences and points of view make for rather odd game results/game play/game mechanics.
The advantage to a Japanese developer putting this out is that it increases the likelihood of it staying true to the original gameplay as much as possible. If an NA company got a hold of it, you could kiss traps, mazes, permadeath and all the other features that fans liked goodbye. Wizardry has a cult following here in NA, but still has a strong following in Japan
Yeah you got me there, I only played the original three that were writen by Trebor er Robert Woodhead and Andy Greenberg. I didn't play the later ones which they didn't do.
p.s: I need to correct myself I went and looked up the sofware they programed the first 5. I only played the first three I'm fairly certain and then was playing alot of the Bards Tale adventures that were coming out around the same time.
I just don't understand the need for people to want to do that to them selfs. Its so masocistic its not even funny. The idea that 20 to 30 hours of your life just went to nothing is terrible. Literally nothing. You couldnt even show your friends what you had or what you did in the game because your character is dead and gone everything lost.
Well it worked quite well for Wizardry. Enough to have a cult following and have total of 8 games, about a dozen of console ports and other things, not to mention set up the basics of what is rpg.
True. Works well for the Wizardry games which have been around since I was a teen. As far as letting your friends know what you had....take a lot of screenshots. One luxury I didn't have when I played some of the older Wizardry games.
Comments
neither is Neverwinter, both are games that were just announced 2 days ago, they will be on here soon
That video reminded me of...
Brave Sir Robin ran away.
Bravely ran away away.
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
Bravely taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin!
He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp.
Or to have his eyes gouged out,
And his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Robin.
Oh you mean like vindictus, dragon nest, world of tanks, lunia and about a dozen of other mmorpg games? :P
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Permadeath, could be interesting if the game is designed for this from the ground up. But I dont think PvP + Permadeath is a good combination, players are just too devious and always find ways to grief people. If the PvP gets in it wont be a completely open system me thinks (perhaps flagging, different types of servers, no intra-guild attacking etc)
I think its quite nice balance with respect and reputation.
You CAN'T pass through dungeons solo. If you start backstabbing your party members you most likely never get into dungeon again or you will get perma-killed next time someone invites you.
Not to mention that game offers you the chance to NOT-get permakilled if you can recover the body as well as a backup solution where your next character would inherit the storage of equipment you can leave for him.
There are quite a few ffa pvp games living successfully in this world.
EVE for example has A VERY perma-deathy death stuff(dying without a backup will do a lot more bad things than just frack over your ship) and pretty much allows backstabbing and other things and the game lives and thrives.
Its all in the execution.
In games like darkfall or MO, ffa pvp is an afterthought. When game actually is built from ground up with those features in mind, its different.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
EVE is anything but perma-death, dying without a clone back up is rare and when it happens the player loses one (1) level of his longest trained skill. I've seen players rage quit when this happened.
It is not a FFA PVP game in the truest sense, there are very large safe areas where players can enjoy the universe and in fact, more than 75% of them live there for that reason.
True, no area in EVE is totally safe, but you have to do something very wrong to die in high sec, smart playing will keep the player from dying there in almost every situation.
Yes, EVE lives and thrives, but understand that it forces players to join large corporations and alliances to really survive and prosper in 0.0.
You rarely get to group with random people, it is too risky to do so, and if someone asked me to bring my Golem out to Low Sec for a quick Level 5 mission run or what have you I'd have to respectfully decline, just couldn't trust them.
I'd actually go along with the perma death concept, but never would I agree to FFA PVP with full loot in dungeons. (note they allow 100 man groups). That would mean you could only go into a dungeon with your guildmates, and that's just too limiting in book for a game of this nature. Your guild would also have to be zerg like in nature, because you're not likely to find people to trust in a large situation otherwise.
I remember playing on DAOC's Mordred server (which I loved) and while it didn't have full loot, it was FFA and what I described above was totally true. I remember whenever we'd set aside our differences and try to work together with another guild for a Dragon fight or something, wasn't long before one of two things happened, either the people we were working turned on us (or we turned on them) or another group came along and attacked during our weakest moment.
Only time I was ever able to beat a dragon was with Shadowclan, a role playing zerg guild that had the numbers to take it down solo with no help. (and no one interupted us that day)
As currently designed this game has no shot in the West to appeal to anything but a small niche market.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Too many carebears QQing about permadeath. Here's a solution, don't play this game if you don't like the concept. This way we won't be plagued with a crappy community that hold-your-hand games always have and we won't have to play with stupid people.
This game will definitely bring out a lot more survival instincts in players which other games don't even think about. I think that seeing a high level player in this game will be an achievement in itself. Additionally, being a GEARED high level player will be an even greater achievement since you made it through that far in the game without perma dying.
This is a game that I definitely want. It's about time we get a hardcore game to come out that will also weed out the baddies in a community.
Is this a true MMORPG or just a multiplayer game like Diablo or something?
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I will definately try this game out. I have been craving for a game with harsh death penalties and I absolutely love the wizardry franchise. I really hope the game will have interesting dungeons where you actually can get lost. I just hope the cash shop wont ruin the game as it did with Allods.
The advantage to a Japanese developer putting this out is that it increases the likelihood of it staying true to the original gameplay as much as possible. If an NA company got a hold of it, you could kiss traps, mazes, permadeath and all the other features that fans liked goodbye. Wizardry has a cult following here in NA, but still has a strong following in Japan
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Good will watch this game closely.
Perma death, ho man it that even possible? This mean this game will have no tank/healer/dps either? HO my !!!!
The concept is more about strategy and coordination in dungeon crawling than tank and spank(as well as knowing when to run). SOMETIMES, its a lot more worthwhile AVOIDING monsters and sneaking past them to reach your goal than engaging them.
Its a basic riskvs rewards - do you open the chest, trying to disarm it and either get severly hurt/get the loot inside or do you leave it alone.
Do you confront the terible beast in the hallway or do you run the hell away.
Do you go with the biggest party you can muster or the most trusted people in smaller one.
Do you leave the best equips in the storage so if you die next character of yours can use them, or do you take them to use in dungeon.
Do you go further the maze trusting in your capabilities and health or do you turn back before getting lost in it.
Also note that it features old-school character-rolling in that you roll a number at the char creation screen and upon that your starter stats and growth depend.
Game also features active dodge systems and twitch combat.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
This could have some positive balancing effects. For instance, lower-grade gear will still be valuable, because people wont want to risk their best stuff on relatively mundane events, they'll save it for the big stuff.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I just posted this a page ago. Its NOT a MMORPG. its a diablo clone. Aka lobby fantasy gamePhilosophy of MMO Game Design
Yay for permadeath, but only if the rewards match the risk, and the RNG doesnt kill you.
Yeah you got me there, I only played the original three that were writen by Trebor er Robert Woodhead and Andy Greenberg. I didn't play the later ones which they didn't do.
p.s: I need to correct myself I went and looked up the sofware they programed the first 5. I only played the first three I'm fairly certain and then was playing alot of the Bards Tale adventures that were coming out around the same time.
Then by that definition, Vindictus, world of tanks, lunia and hundreds of other games counted as mmos are not mmos, amirite? :>
Except that this game is a lot more mmo than those, since dungeons support UP TO 100 PLAYERS AT ONCE.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Wow. AAA mmorpg with actual consequences? Looks like I might be playing an MMORPG sooner than I thought.
Has to have a persistent world for it to be a mmorpg in my book. Won't effect whether I play it or not
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
True. Works well for the Wizardry games which have been around since I was a teen. As far as letting your friends know what you had....take a lot of screenshots. One luxury I didn't have when I played some of the older Wizardry games.
OK :-(
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I just posted this a page ago. Its NOT a MMORPG. its a diablo clone. Aka lobby fantasy game
OK :-(
If you count games like vindictus then this is mmorpg.
Actually this is more mmorpg than vindictus since Wizardry Online's dungeons support up to 100 people per instance
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Pass.
Permadeath, really? It is not like there aren't too many games to play anyway. Guess that saves me some time from trying it out.