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I'm baffled...
Distopia
Member EpicPosts: 21,183
At the beginning of the TOR phenomenon, the one major complaint and worry from this community was whether or not TOR would be a traditional MMO or something like GW or AOC.
Now the problem is that TOR is a MMO in the traditional sense.
I'm aware some may have wanted something else all along, some are happy with what's presented, some just don't care.
That's really not what I'm adressing. I just find it ironic ( in a funny way), that in the begining the complaint and major worry of the time was it wouldn't be an MMO. Now the big complaint is that it's to much like an MMO.
All focus was on an acronym back then (when it mattered) no focus was on usable input about what people wanted in their MMO(s). I think it's safe to assume this is what you get when that happens.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I believe it started with people doubting it would be like an MMO period.
Now it seems like people have a problem with it just being a traditional one.
People have been complaining about this for as long as I can remember, guess it just flared up because of the e3 showing.
I love this community, I really do. But the darkest side here I think, if you read every forum post is that everybody hates everything and there is no hope for any games in the future. Sometimes I think about what somebody coming to this site for the first time would think after reading some of the posts. All in all that doesn't matter. People here are going to pick holes in this game no matter what it does. People where writing it off after the first trailer and insulting anybody who was intrested in it. Some of my fave posters until very recently thought it was vapourware. The fact is some of us are just here to complaine becouse of personal reasons I am not even going to begin to try and understand. Some people are teanagers and don't know anything. Some people have been hurt by the poor quality of games released in the last few years that they where looking forward to. My point is the nitpicking is going to happen in every major release, and sometimes for very good reason. It tends to be the negative stuff we dwell on in my experaince. But if you actualy look at the consitency of the threads on Tor on mmorpg.com over the last year or so, a lot of people are really looking forward to it and some cases despite themselves. I think it's a good sign to be baffled by this communitys reaction to things. I think that's how you should be
In the end this is basically what I am saying, you find no irony in that? It just shows the problem with working in this genre, it's a front that is just too hard to please.
Look at feedback from AOC, and look at feed back all around the industry. You can't stray away from the norm but you also can't copy it, you can't add new things to it, and you can't streamline it, you can't pay homage to it. You simply can't do anything with it. You might as well not even make it. Unless you remake it, but then what happens, where'd the MMORPG GOOO!?!?!!!?
Uhg sorry I'm just venting.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Why would I find irony?
First it was doubts that it would be like an MMO. Then when people found out it was going to be like an MMO, they were dissappointed that it wasn't really anything new or different.
You'll never please everyone... and then there are those who will never be pleased. They're just going to hate on this game no matter what happens.
The games biggest offense? It's not GW2. Damn this game for not being GW2! Fail!
There are people that just want it to fail and for there own personal reasons, they will do everything in there power to help push there hate and lies, maybe they are just trolls or maybe just scared that this game will kill there current games sub base, what ever the reason they are wrong, this is a mmo and a dam good one that will over take ever WoW over time and subs from other mmos out there.
This is that game that will forever change how mmo stories are told and alot of the trolls could be game dev. pissed that they can no longer compete because that means that they will have to sink in millions of dollors into VO and story telling, the cheap games have no story, cheap quest but alot of hype and all those types of games are just money grabs, Swtor will put a end to all this, after Swotor comes out people will not leave untill those mmos give them what they have became spoilded with and thats a Roleplaying game.
"Irony, a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated."
In short demanding something over and over again, then denouncing it when you get it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If people complained about the first thing and then complained about the second thing then they obviously didn't get what they demanded. So therefore there is no irony to be found.
People were also merely DOUBTING that TOR would be an MMO. People also didn't want a standard quest and raid based themepark. Some people did want that and some people didn't. There isn't any irony in people not getting what they want.
I think you're taking my post a bit to serious and literal here man, you don't find irony in this. That's great, my thought isn't in regard to TOR alone, I don't think in such narrow paths. This is a satrical statement toward this industry and it's resident fans. An overall if you will, I just posted it here and about TOR, because it's at the forefront of such a discusion right now.
On a more serious note; the bottomline is, there are just too many wants and desires going around. So much so I feel it's detrimental to this genre as a whole. It seems to me a large section of those who post about this genre do not like this genre. If that's the case, I find something wrong with that. It would be like a bunch of RPG/MMO fans going to FPS forums demanding every game grasp RPG and MMO elements (or it's gonna be crap), it's just not kosher and would not go over well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm taking your post seriously because you decided to post the definition of irony. I doubt many other people would have done that if they weren't very serious. I'm also talking about TOR because this is in the TOR forums. If you wanted to talk about the genre as a whole you should have posted in the general discussion forum and cited TOR as an example. We wouldn't have had this misunderstanding then.
It's funny that some mmo gamers, mostly those on this site, think it's their duty to push some kind of agenda that is based on making every new mmorpg fit into what they believe how a game should be made. i find it hilarious that some people just can't gravitate toward a paticular game that they are interested in and become more involved in that community while not worrying or dwelling on some other game like this one that they have no interest in.
I know when we all speak of a SW mmorpg, SWG comes to mind and believe me, i was one of the most bitter players of that game after the NGE hit. As life has it though, it moves on and so did i. To have people actually come into a forum and speak so badly about a new mmoprg that is different yet the same as what they loved, is purely absurd in my book. Like others just posted. Some were bashing TOR for not being an actual mmo and they were wrong. Now itheir making the rounds on the combat system. Really, what's next.
TOR is, what it is and you can either like what you see or not. There's no reason or rhyme for bashing or arguing or trying to make anyone change their mind about this game.
I was not impressed with anything They showed at E3, I guess I just wait for GW2 and hope it is what I want
I've seen you post in the GW2 forums so I have a good notion of where your hostility is coming from (we're supposed to be enemies, we like different games)
Anyway I didn't say this post wasn't about TOR, I gave a pretty good explanation of that I believe.
I was talking about people asking for something, getting it and being disappointed by it. Of course there are others who wanted what they got, and others who wanted something different. They don't fit well into satrical humor though, do they?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The game was announced several years ago even if I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that many old MMO players realized they were burnt out on classic MMOs when they tried Rift a few months ago.
I am not sure I would call TOR traditional, just like GW2, TERA, TSW and WoDO it is trying to change some of the ways MMOs are, not just the same things as those games.
100% voice acting, dialogue trees and lots of cut scenes might be what's catch on to next generation, or not hard to say now. They are not traditional at all. Combat mechanics on the other hand seems pretty traditional to me and if you are tired of MMO combat there are other games that tries something different around.
I don't see the reason to complain, particularly before release. It is great that the upcomming generation of games try different strategies and it will be fun to see what will catch on and what wont.
TORs success or failure is still undecided of course but there is no reason to whine about things already.
Complains about the game messing with the IP is more logical, my personally only complain so far is that they ignored the IP so they could add looting, cool gear and combat healing. As a SW fan that annoys me but the truly important thing about the game is if it is fun or not and the only people knowing that besides Bioware is the beta testers.
Anyways, we do need games with good budget and competent programmers in the genre.
Let's try not to bait each other guys. Thanks.
maybe the bipolar habits of bioware coming to roost
what bipolar habits you may ask? you'd have to ask the complainers
This bipolar kitty enjoys themepark (i think thats what you mean by traditional) mmo.
I want to own property too
A traditional MMO is a themepark, but a themepark game is not by default a traditional mmo.
A traditional MMO is a themepark with quests, raiding with tiered items, pvp, crafting, and some level of customization, whether it be interface or character.
SWTOR is assuredly a traditional MMO by that definition, and a fairly good traditional MMO at that. Maybe some people are just hoping that SWTOR is the second coming of SWG, which was more of a sandbox type game. For those hoping that is the case, you will be very, very disappointed.
The type of player that likes SWG, unless it's purely for the IP, is probably not going to like SWTOR. The games will be very different gameplaywise. Conversely, the type of player who will enjoy SWTOR probably wouldn't enjoy SWG because the gameplay which is the basis for their like of SWTOR, just isn't there in SWG.
Currently Watching: TSW. << Very Eager for a Beta invite. Have experience with Beta Testing.
Not personally a big fan of raiding or current pve endgame mmo philosophy. Nothing wrong with it, I just sort of burnt out on it.
Hardcore raider in wow from Launch to.. about 7 months ago.
Currently Playing: Champions Online.
I don't care about this game at all (the old republic isn't for me, nor is star wars in general outside of the original trilogy.)
I just wanted to say I like your avatar, Sunny Day Real Estate rules.
You've nailed it exactly. But of course, if people did this, instead of posting in forums for games that don't fit their tastes and arguing passionately that it should change to fit their tastes, discussion on MMORPG.com (and probably most other gaming forums) would drop by 80%.
^ This lol
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
At first, people said it was single-player RPG with chatbox. Then, as more evidence of it being a "real" MMO came to light, (some) people predicted it was going to be a "WoW clone" or "WoW with lightsabers" or, more specifically, "NOT SWG!!!!!!" and wrote it off completely. Now, as evidence shows TOR will be a fully featured MMO, people are turning up the "ANOTHER THEMEPARK LOLOLOL" attacks, which is to be expected.
Point being, everyone will always complain about something. Only when the game fits the ideal mould in their minds (while they skip and frolic in their imaginary land) will they be satisfied.
I love people who want something different but complain when someone experiments with something different.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
By traditional I mean the EQ formula (IE) quest hubs, exploration, turn based combat, etc... I do agree they're adding to that formula, but I don't think that exactly separates them from it.
You know it's not even that i don't see a reason to complain, as I do in some respects. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that MMO game-play needs to change, or that features in them have become completely obsolete.
I started playing LOTRO a few days ago, and have played for quite a while each day. I never really gave that game a shot, so I decided why not now. From a game-play stand-point I haven't been bored yet. However, from a presentation stand-point I get very bored, I'm simply not feeling the story elements so far.
MMO's can have decent gameplay, for what it is. The game-play and pace allow communication even without ventrilo or TS. The worlds offer exploration and things of that sort. The design allows for many to experience things together etc..
Sure there is room or maybe even a need for games taking a more action oriented approach, that deosn't mean there is no room for a game like TOR though.
TOR in my eyes is a natural evolution of the typical Themepark. Bringing the design one step closer to a better whole. I look at GW2 and TSW much in the same way. As they are also presenting a proper narrative within their games. As well as what looks like fun game-play to boot.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL that they do.. I actually get this reply quite a bit, hence the LOL.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson