Doubt it Mass Effect one sold 7 million copies not to long ago, granted it was on three concols including PC, But Anet counts all of the expantions sold for GW which was four if I am not mistaken.
So there you have it Guild Wars 1 in its 6 years and 3 or 4 xpacs couldn't outsell Mass Effect and its 3 year and no xpacs counted.
Actually, they count Guild Wars: Prophecies, Guild War: Factions and Guild War: Nightfall, but not Guild Wars: Eye of the North in the count.
They also count the people who bought Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall as a single box (The trilogy edition) as a single buyer, rather than 3, and after a period of time, the 3 games could really ONLY be bought together.
Also, Mass Effect is a silly comparison because it was on 3 different systems. Look at how much of that was console sales. :P
Games with console editions almost invariably sell better. Just saying. Does that mean GW2 will sell more boxes than SW:ToR? No. Does it mean it's IMPOSSIBLE for GW2 to sell more boxes than SW:ToR? Also no. It'll be really easy for both games to sell boxes. How well they actually sell will depend upon a variety of factors, but 'past history of company' is only a partial comparison at best, and hardly sufficient.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
Exactly what I'm thinking. I'm a huge Star Wars nerd too.
Casey Schreiner from G4 (The MMO Report): "I think that Guild Wars2 is going to be the next big MMO. I think it's gonna beat SWTOR. I think it's gonna be a better game than SWToR... I think with SWToR you're gonna see a lot of people sign up initially,, they're gonna find out that it's a well made game in SW universe that doesn't offer a lot of innovation, and when they see what GW is doing they're gonna be shocked."
I don't know which game is going to do better. What is better? More box sales? More revenue?
If you sell one SWTOR box, but that person subs for 6 months, that's more revenue than one purchase of GW2, because it has no sub fee.
See what I mean?
Each SWTOR box can make more money than each GW2 box, because of subs, so you could sell less boxes, but make more revenue.
But, here's the thing about "innovation".
This statement sort of acts like everyone that plays MMORPGs has already played MMORPGs, and they are looking for something new.
But in reality, there are new gamers every day, that have never played an MMORPG.
Everything about MMORPGs is "innovative" for those players. They've never played WoW before. They are nto burnt out on MMORPGs.
They are just now getting online and starting to play online games.
Will those people like SWTOR or not? I don't know.
But I don't think those players are going to require "innovation".
That's the jaded veteran MMORPG player or dev talking.
But there are kids born all the time, and they arent' jaded. They never played an MMORPG before. They just need a good game, not innovation.
Problem with that is "if", yes each individual box sale for SWToR has potential for greater revenue but it's with the caveat that it's only potential revenue and not garaunteed. Secondly with the monthly fee attached to SWToR your going to see far fewer initial buys. People tend to wait now days 3-6 months after a launch before diving in because many MMO's have way to many problems in there first months. Secondly it's far likelier for people to purchase multiple copies of GW2 since there is no monthly sub fee.
While yes SWToR has greater revenue potential per box sale than GW2, GW2 has a great deal more potential for box sales than SWToR.
In the end though it's not like any of this matters. SWToR and GW2 are both going to be giants. Who cares which will be the bigger giant.
I think the question needs to be asked how do you figure out how many people are actively playing GW2. There needs to be some kind of metric system that decides if you've played that month.
I go with monthly as thats how WoW and most MMOs figure active subs. If you played at all during that month then your active for that month.
Now who makes more money? thats impossible to tell right now.
But GW2 needs to sell as many boxes and have every person buy at 15 dollars a month to stay up with other games. If they fall in either category the other needs to make up for it. Which could get problematic as their cash shop doesn't require you to buy it.
People who want GW2 will buy it, people who want ToR will buy it, the question is how many people will indudge in that cash shop of theirs. People who buy GW2 generally don't want a monthly fee. So GW2 going to need a to find a way if box sales aren't great or make up for that...I'm not saying it will do bad, I hope it does good. But it actually needs to sell a lot more boxes then ToR does to "beat" SW;ToR thats going to be interesting to see. Because i don't see people spending 15 dollars every month in the cash shop unless it goes P2W (god i hope it doesn't)
For me ToR already beat GW2 in my opinion, as i'll be playing that instead. But i don't care in the end who beats who i just want a big enough player base to have fun, and that should be easy. People who try and put one game over the other are indudgling in a bit of a pointless debate. as for it's going to beat GW2. I'll wait till release before I start making statement like that. Casey is a good source and if he thinks GW2 is going to beat SW;Tor then thats okay. It is his professional opinion, that doesn't mean i'm going to suddenly switch, but whichever. Glad GW2 is getting some sunshine. Lets hope they don't lose it as they get more info released.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I can't disagree... been around MMOs for a long while... and think GW2 is shaping up to truly be the next step in MMOs.. when they all say how new and innovative they are... well with GW2 I think it'll be true.. not that SWToR is going to be bad.. but I just see it getting setup for a hard crash after the honeymoon like so many others.. it just can't live up to the hype..
I will bet you here and now that TOR will out sell GW2 in Box sales alone.
And since quality in in the eye of the beholder dont give me that "Well GW2 will be better" bullshit.
Eventuallly GW2 might have more box sales... I paid 7 bucks for GW1 last year, and they'll start doing the same thing with GW2 in order to try to bring their numbers up.
Doubt it Mass Effect one sold 7 million copies not to long ago, granted it was on three concols including PC, But Anet counts all of the expantions sold for GW which was four if I am not mistaken.
So there you have it Guild Wars 1 in its 6 years and 3 or 4 xpacs couldn't outsell Mass Effect and its 3 year and no xpacs counted.
Don't compare a single-player multiplattform game with a mmo.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
Now who makes more money? thats impossible to tell right now.
I honestly, and this is speaking as a GW2 fan who is going to play GW2 and only maybe SW:ToR....
... think that SW:ToR is going to kick the ever-living crap out of GW2 in the 'making buckets of money' competition.
First of all, they have a sub. That's like selling a bonus copy of the game every few months, per subscriber. Secondly, they'll ALSO be selling expansions. Probably close to around the rate GW2 does, since Arenanet specifically said they are NOT going to do the 6-month-per-expansion thing again.
So far as a cash shop? Well, this IS Bioware. Published by EA. I'm not expecting game-breaking lightsabers or anything to be sold (Not a F2P game), but I'd be shocked if you can't pick up some pretty shinies of some sort, or something...
I've never heard EA being accused of being incapable of monetizing their own products. ... and Bioware aren't exactly shy with creating DLC.
edit: Also, it's a Star Wars game. SW:ToR lunchboxes? Action figures? Comics? Card games? All perfectly possible. It has the brand name recognition of Star Wars, so product spinoffs (Can we say SW:ToR Legos? My wallet can! I'd be more likely to buy those, haha!) are completely reasonable and far more likely in fact.
Which will sell more box units? I think GW2 can win that competition. Will they? Dunno. I just think it's definitely a possibility, but winning the money making competition is a steep uphill climb, since they'd have to be outselling SW:ToR by probably a factor of two or more, and that won't happen just because of GW2 being awesome... it would require SW:ToR to actually suck as well. If both games are awesome, that big of a ratio in sales difference is pretty unrealistic.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
I think the question needs to be asked how do you figure out how many people are actively playing GW2. There needs to be some kind of metric system that decides if you've played that month.
I go with monthly as thats how WoW and most MMOs figure active subs. If you played at all during that month then your active for that month.
Now who makes more money? thats impossible to tell right now.
But GW2 needs to sell as many boxes and have every person buy at 15 dollars a month to stay up with other games. If they fall in either category the other needs to make up for it. Which could get problematic as their cash shop doesn't require you to buy it.
People who want GW2 will buy it, people who want ToR will buy it, the question is how many people will indudge in that cash shop of theirs. People who buy GW2 generally don't want a monthly fee. So GW2 going to need a to find a way if box sales aren't great or make up for that...I'm not saying it will do bad, I hope it does good. But it actually needs to sell a lot more boxes then ToR does to "beat" SW;ToR thats going to be interesting to see. Because i don't see people spending 15 dollars every month in the cash shop unless it goes P2W (god i hope it doesn't)
For me ToR already beat GW2 in my opinion, as i'll be playing that instead. But i don't care in the end who beats who i just want a big enough player base to have fun, and that should be easy. People who try and put one game over the other are indudgling in a bit of a pointless debate. as for it's going to beat GW2. I'll wait till release before I start making statement like that. Casey is a good source and if he thinks GW2 is going to beat SW;Tor then thats okay. It is his professional opinion, that doesn't mean i'm going to suddenly switch, but whichever. Glad GW2 is getting some sunshine. Lets hope they don't lose it as they get more info released.
While the cash shop doesn't require you to buy from it that with the lack of a monthly fee creates an environment where people are more inclined to make purchases from it. When someone feels forced to buy things from the item mall in a f2p many end up leaving. When someone sees things in an item mall they want in an MMO they are paying a monthly fee for many won't buy it because they are already paying for the game and feel they should be intitled to all the game has to offer without having to fork over even more cash.
A game with no monthly fee that doesn't force you to make purchases off of an item mall to enjoy the game actually encourages many to make purchases that normally wouldn't. Hell in GW1 I bought stuff off of their store and I don't generally buy crap from item malls lol. My wifes the same way and even she bought stuff on the GW store/NcSoft store.
I can't disagree... been around MMOs for a long while... and think GW2 is shaping up to truly be the next step in MMOs.. when they all say how new and innovative they are... well with GW2 I think it'll be true.. not that SWToR is going to be bad.. but I just see it getting setup for a hard crash after the honeymoon like so many others.. it just can't live up to the hype..
I agree. GW2 looks somewhat innovative (to what extent I don't know yet). TOR, on the other hand, is WoW set in the Star Wars universe with voice overs. When the co-founder of Bioware openly stated WoW was the model for TOR I was shocked.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
Its more the philosphy of "We want to prove that a subscription is unnecessary for a great game".
And just because you didn't like GW1 didn't mean it sucked.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans
? I don't know what poll is being referred to, but the argument that the payment model is representative of ANet's philosophy, is that your own opinion or is that the opinion of everyone who voted that option in that poll?
Because if it's only your own opinion, then the reason why people voted that option might very well be one that is different from your motivation.
Originally posted by SaintViktor
Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
It's also the same guy who has several statements of his been debunked as false or incorrect, among those debunked statements the 300 million dollar budget claim he made, which makes him as unreliable a source and fortune teller (bc of his emotional, embittered ranting) as you can get.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
Its more the philosphy of "We want to prove that a subscription is unnecessary for a great game".
And just because you didn't like GW1 didn't mean it sucked.
That's correct, GW1 sucked regardless of wether I liked it or not, thus laughing thin the face of their own philosophy.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
Oh, well, you said so, so it must be true! I stand corrected!
By all means, pay more than you need to for items so that you can feel prestige about them. I'm sure you will be able to take all of your luxury items with you, because nothing is vanity priced in this world, ever.
? I don't know what poll is being referred to, but the argument that the payment model is representative of ANet's philosophy, is that your own opinion or is that the opinion of everyone who voted that option in that poll?
Because if it's only your own opinion, then the reason why people voted that option might very well be one that is different from your motivation.
... that was her whole point, you know. Her whole point is 'This is my reason for why I voted that. People can have different reasons for voting for the particular choice voted for, and because you cannot speak for why the other people picked that option, it doesn't work to simplify it to 'Poll proves people only want GW2 because it's cheap'
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
You mean the trailer that had nothing to do with how the game plays ? I admit though, I did like that trailer. Still do!
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans
? I don't know what poll is being referred to, but the argument that the payment model is representative of ANet's philosophy, is that your own opinion or is that the opinion of everyone who voted that option in that poll?
Because if it's only your own opinion, then the reason why people voted that option might very well be one that is different from your motivation.
Originally posted by SaintViktor
Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
It's also the same guy who has several statements of his been debunked as false or incorrect, among those debunked statements the 300 million dollar budget claim he made, which makes him as unreliable a source and fortune teller (bc of his emotional, embittered ranting) as you can get.
It does make him unreliable source but as it turns out it seems even the unreliable can be true sometimes too.
I don't think he should have made the statement. It was too blatant, too obvious... too "shout it at the top of your lungs" but I can see why he did it. It is a marketing ploy to get GW2 more attention even from people who wouldn't normally consider GW2 as worth checking out. Some people would definitely listen when Casey says "Hey GW2 is going to beat TOR and you better believe it." Some people will go out to try and find the reasons why he would say that and therefore his plan would have worked.
Who doesn't call SWTOR as a word? I mean really. That right there proves that SWTOR beats GW2. You can't say guhwa2. That's stupid. Another reason why SWTOR wins.
Anyways, I'm glad it's all about "beating" someone.
Will GW2 outsell TOR in box sales? I doubt it. Will TOR beat GW2 in subs? Of course.
I think he is right. I think that people will rush out and go buy The Old Republic and enjoy it but realize after they played through it that they have done this kind of stuff before. I think I will enjoy 2 playthroughs of TOR but as soon as GW2 comes I'm off to GW2. Perhaps the ex Mythic/EA employee who said TOR had nothing to offer besides story was right after all. Guess we will all find out soon enough.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment modelbecause it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect.That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
Its more the philosphy of "We want to prove that a subscription is unnecessary for a great game".
And just because you didn't like GW1 didn't mean it sucked.
That's correct, GW1 sucked regardless of wether I liked it or not, thus laughing thin the face of their own philosophy.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
I played GW for years too, but I had also months in a stretch that I didn't play at all or barely, and I know many in my guild and friends who did exactly the same. Especially with the growing number of good F2P/B2P titles I don't know how much it counts if you have people who only play a few hours to none per month on average as a metric. I think that PCU and overall player activity are far better indicators.
As for the Rytlock dungeon, that's a matter of taste and is subjective: I liked what I saw of the dungeon, but I also liked what I saw of the Flashpoints and Operations of SWTOR
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
? I don't know what poll is being referred to, but the argument that the payment model is representative of ANet's philosophy, is that your own opinion or is that the opinion of everyone who voted that option in that poll?
Because if it's only your own opinion, then the reason why people voted that option might very well be one that is different from your motivation.
... that was her whole point, you know. Her whole point is 'This is my reason for why I voted that. People can have different reasons for voting for the particular choice voted for, and because you cannot speak for why the other people picked that option, it doesn't work to simplify it to 'Poll proves people only want GW2 because it's cheap'
Seriously. That was her point. Reread it.
Eh, yes... but that other guy's point was that it was a poll where that feature ended 1st. Usually a poll consists of more than 1 person voting, I was referring to those other voters.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
Actually, they count Guild Wars: Prophecies, Guild War: Factions and Guild War: Nightfall, but not Guild Wars: Eye of the North in the count.
They also count the people who bought Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall as a single box (The trilogy edition) as a single buyer, rather than 3, and after a period of time, the 3 games could really ONLY be bought together.
Also, Mass Effect is a silly comparison because it was on 3 different systems. Look at how much of that was console sales. :P
Games with console editions almost invariably sell better. Just saying. Does that mean GW2 will sell more boxes than SW:ToR? No. Does it mean it's IMPOSSIBLE for GW2 to sell more boxes than SW:ToR? Also no. It'll be really easy for both games to sell boxes. How well they actually sell will depend upon a variety of factors, but 'past history of company' is only a partial comparison at best, and hardly sufficient.
Exactly what I'm thinking. I'm a huge Star Wars nerd too.
Problem with that is "if", yes each individual box sale for SWToR has potential for greater revenue but it's with the caveat that it's only potential revenue and not garaunteed. Secondly with the monthly fee attached to SWToR your going to see far fewer initial buys. People tend to wait now days 3-6 months after a launch before diving in because many MMO's have way to many problems in there first months. Secondly it's far likelier for people to purchase multiple copies of GW2 since there is no monthly sub fee.
While yes SWToR has greater revenue potential per box sale than GW2, GW2 has a great deal more potential for box sales than SWToR.
In the end though it's not like any of this matters. SWToR and GW2 are both going to be giants. Who cares which will be the bigger giant.
I think the question needs to be asked how do you figure out how many people are actively playing GW2. There needs to be some kind of metric system that decides if you've played that month.
I go with monthly as thats how WoW and most MMOs figure active subs. If you played at all during that month then your active for that month.
Now who makes more money? thats impossible to tell right now.
But GW2 needs to sell as many boxes and have every person buy at 15 dollars a month to stay up with other games. If they fall in either category the other needs to make up for it. Which could get problematic as their cash shop doesn't require you to buy it.
People who want GW2 will buy it, people who want ToR will buy it, the question is how many people will indudge in that cash shop of theirs. People who buy GW2 generally don't want a monthly fee. So GW2 going to need a to find a way if box sales aren't great or make up for that...I'm not saying it will do bad, I hope it does good. But it actually needs to sell a lot more boxes then ToR does to "beat" SW;ToR thats going to be interesting to see. Because i don't see people spending 15 dollars every month in the cash shop unless it goes P2W (god i hope it doesn't)
For me ToR already beat GW2 in my opinion, as i'll be playing that instead. But i don't care in the end who beats who i just want a big enough player base to have fun, and that should be easy. People who try and put one game over the other are indudgling in a bit of a pointless debate. as for it's going to beat GW2. I'll wait till release before I start making statement like that. Casey is a good source and if he thinks GW2 is going to beat SW;Tor then thats okay. It is his professional opinion, that doesn't mean i'm going to suddenly switch, but whichever. Glad GW2 is getting some sunshine. Lets hope they don't lose it as they get more info released.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
So, youre thinking you'll get 400 hours of gameplay... and that's not enough for you? I doubt GW2 will offer that much gameplay to nearly as many people.
According to a poll on this site, the #1 feature of GW2 is it's payment model... seriously, that's the best thing this game has to offer, thats the amazing feature that is drawing people to play it.... doesn't inspire much confidence.
I can't disagree... been around MMOs for a long while... and think GW2 is shaping up to truly be the next step in MMOs.. when they all say how new and innovative they are... well with GW2 I think it'll be true.. not that SWToR is going to be bad.. but I just see it getting setup for a hard crash after the honeymoon like so many others.. it just can't live up to the hype..
Don't compare a single-player multiplattform game with a mmo.
The number 1 feature of GW2 to me is its payment model because it is representative of the company's philosophy for which I hold the utmost respect. That, and I have never played a game that cost $15/mo to play that was more fun or engaging than GW, so why should I now?
If you neglect to acknowledge why someone might have voted the way they did in that poll, you are doomed to never understand what makes GW so beloved by its fans, nor whatever measure of success GW2 ultimately attains. But do carry on.
I honestly, and this is speaking as a GW2 fan who is going to play GW2 and only maybe SW:ToR....
... think that SW:ToR is going to kick the ever-living crap out of GW2 in the 'making buckets of money' competition.
First of all, they have a sub. That's like selling a bonus copy of the game every few months, per subscriber. Secondly, they'll ALSO be selling expansions. Probably close to around the rate GW2 does, since Arenanet specifically said they are NOT going to do the 6-month-per-expansion thing again.
So far as a cash shop? Well, this IS Bioware. Published by EA. I'm not expecting game-breaking lightsabers or anything to be sold (Not a F2P game), but I'd be shocked if you can't pick up some pretty shinies of some sort, or something...
I've never heard EA being accused of being incapable of monetizing their own products. ... and Bioware aren't exactly shy with creating DLC.
edit: Also, it's a Star Wars game. SW:ToR lunchboxes? Action figures? Comics? Card games? All perfectly possible. It has the brand name recognition of Star Wars, so product spinoffs (Can we say SW:ToR Legos? My wallet can! I'd be more likely to buy those, haha!) are completely reasonable and far more likely in fact.
Which will sell more box units? I think GW2 can win that competition. Will they? Dunno. I just think it's definitely a possibility, but winning the money making competition is a steep uphill climb, since they'd have to be outselling SW:ToR by probably a factor of two or more, and that won't happen just because of GW2 being awesome... it would require SW:ToR to actually suck as well. If both games are awesome, that big of a ratio in sales difference is pretty unrealistic.
I played the original Guild Wars for 5+ years and still doing so. The original Guild Wars has considerably less content than what GW2 offers. So it is pretty much a no-brainer millions of fans will continue to play GW2 for many years just like they did with the original.
GW2 brings dynamic events, personal story, a beautiful world to play in and it does not copy WoW. The Guild Wars ip is really popular now and lets be honest, the Rytlock dungeon intro was more appleaing than anything TOR has shown thus far.
While the cash shop doesn't require you to buy from it that with the lack of a monthly fee creates an environment where people are more inclined to make purchases from it. When someone feels forced to buy things from the item mall in a f2p many end up leaving. When someone sees things in an item mall they want in an MMO they are paying a monthly fee for many won't buy it because they are already paying for the game and feel they should be intitled to all the game has to offer without having to fork over even more cash.
A game with no monthly fee that doesn't force you to make purchases off of an item mall to enjoy the game actually encourages many to make purchases that normally wouldn't. Hell in GW1 I bought stuff off of their store and I don't generally buy crap from item malls lol. My wifes the same way and even she bought stuff on the GW store/NcSoft store.
I agree. GW2 looks somewhat innovative (to what extent I don't know yet). TOR, on the other hand, is WoW set in the Star Wars universe with voice overs. When the co-founder of Bioware openly stated WoW was the model for TOR I was shocked.
The philosphy of "Our game isn't worth a montly fee, but lets pretend that we have some greater, more noble purpose in being B2p? Is that what you're talking about?
I'm sorry, but GW1 sucked. I paid only 7 bucks for my copy, adding to their overinflated sales figures, and I feel I paid far too much.
The Return trailer puts that trailer to shame.
In Bioware we trust!
Its more the philosphy of "We want to prove that a subscription is unnecessary for a great game".
And just because you didn't like GW1 didn't mean it sucked.
? I don't know what poll is being referred to, but the argument that the payment model is representative of ANet's philosophy, is that your own opinion or is that the opinion of everyone who voted that option in that poll?
Because if it's only your own opinion, then the reason why people voted that option might very well be one that is different from your motivation.
It's also the same guy who has several statements of his been debunked as false or incorrect, among those debunked statements the 300 million dollar budget claim he made, which makes him as unreliable a source and fortune teller (bc of his emotional, embittered ranting) as you can get.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's correct, GW1 sucked regardless of wether I liked it or not, thus laughing thin the face of their own philosophy.
Oh, well, you said so, so it must be true! I stand corrected!
By all means, pay more than you need to for items so that you can feel prestige about them. I'm sure you will be able to take all of your luxury items with you, because nothing is vanity priced in this world, ever.
... that was her whole point, you know. Her whole point is 'This is my reason for why I voted that. People can have different reasons for voting for the particular choice voted for, and because you cannot speak for why the other people picked that option, it doesn't work to simplify it to 'Poll proves people only want GW2 because it's cheap'
Seriously. That was her point. Reread it.
You mean the trailer that had nothing to do with how the game plays ? I admit though, I did like that trailer. Still do!
It does make him unreliable source but as it turns out it seems even the unreliable can be true sometimes too.
I don't think he should have made the statement. It was too blatant, too obvious... too "shout it at the top of your lungs" but I can see why he did it. It is a marketing ploy to get GW2 more attention even from people who wouldn't normally consider GW2 as worth checking out. Some people would definitely listen when Casey says "Hey GW2 is going to beat TOR and you better believe it." Some people will go out to try and find the reasons why he would say that and therefore his plan would have worked.
This is not a game.
Who doesn't call SWTOR as a word? I mean really. That right there proves that SWTOR beats GW2. You can't say guhwa2. That's stupid. Another reason why SWTOR wins.
Anyways, I'm glad it's all about "beating" someone.
Will GW2 outsell TOR in box sales? I doubt it. Will TOR beat GW2 in subs? Of course.
Sucked, huh?
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I played GW for years too, but I had also months in a stretch that I didn't play at all or barely, and I know many in my guild and friends who did exactly the same. Especially with the growing number of good F2P/B2P titles I don't know how much it counts if you have people who only play a few hours to none per month on average as a metric. I think that PCU and overall player activity are far better indicators.
As for the Rytlock dungeon, that's a matter of taste and is subjective: I liked what I saw of the dungeon, but I also liked what I saw of the Flashpoints and Operations of SWTOR
Eh, yes... but that other guy's point was that it was a poll where that feature ended 1st. Usually a poll consists of more than 1 person voting, I was referring to those other voters.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."