I hope you are right. I really do. I just think that without that defined role it some how makes you less special or less necessary. I like being the healer that kept the tank alive through the encounter or saved the group or raid from a wipe. I just think those moments may be lost with the lack of truly defined roles. Don't get me wrong..... I do see lots of positives, but since this is a post about concerns or possible dislikes, I was just simply stating some of the things that I am personnaly doubting or worrying about.
People will still be special or neccessary.
People will still keep somebody alive through an encounter, or save the group from a wipe.
THe difference is that it won't be because of your class, it will be because of the player.
That's all. So if you want everybody to be 'oh crap, we have GOT to get stevebmbsqd back in our party, he totally kept us from spending all our time dead', then you just have to be awesome.
I hope you are right. I really do. I just think that without that defined role it some how makes you less special or less necessary. I like being the healer that kept the tank alive through the encounter or saved the group or raid from a wipe. I just think those moments may be lost with the lack of truly defined roles. Don't get me wrong..... I do see lots of positives, but since this is a post about concerns or possible dislikes, I was just simply stating some of the things that I am personnaly doubting or worrying about.
I guess we will have to wait and see.... I am done following the hype. I try to keep my expectations down till I actually play the game. The last few releases have proven that not all that glitters is gold........
It just reminds me that this game will HAVE PORTALS to zones. Basically saying, each zone is a small instance.
DE will just be PQs in Warhammer that can go forward or backward pretty much. Sure, they are more indepth, they might even have more "stages". But they will eventually turn into that.
This first part is funny to me, since 9 times out of 10 the person saying it is a fan of TOR. Ok let me ask a simple question, what is the difference between going through a portal in GW2 and having to have a load screen between each planet you go to in TOR (yeah I know the load screen shows a ship flying). It is basically the same thing, you are not able to walk from Mos Eisley to Alderaan city without a load screen, so why is it if GW2 uses a portal to go between zones it is a bad thing. Honestly if you cannot see how this game function is the same in both games, then you are a blind fool that just wants to see what you want to see.
Or let me make this simple I will change the quote for you, this reminds me this game will have Load screens with a ship flying to different planets. Basically saying, each planet is a small instance.
Ah I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning!
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
It's simply a matter of scale.
GW2 is just built on a much, much smaller scale.
oh yea.... big big world... sooo awesome yea? too big for nothing.. sand and... some mob... some quest.. *Tatooine*
hope those so awesome big world will be much better than Tatooine.. gameplay of Tatooine was sooo boring.
Yes I am looking forward to GW2, but there are plenty of decisions Arenanet has made that I am not impressed with or absolutely dislike. Here is my short list. Again, these are MY reasons, others may like these design decisions below, but I however, do not.
1) No Mounts:
Sure, we have fast travel instead, but thats more of a roundabout, fat fingered way to get to where you'd like to go. It has the possibility of being faster in many cases, but you only get to teleport to certain parts, and trudge through everything else you pass by at a nominal speed. On a side note, no mounts in a fantasy game is a step backwards in my opinion. They could have kept with their "innovative" attempts and reinvented some mounted combat, but instead they gave us number 2.
Agree, but given the amount of content they need at launch, teleport seems easier to complete at first, they might come change this later on, but I like the teleport as well, it mights exploration as a choice, not forced on players, sometimes you just can't be bother with all those events running around dodging them to get to some place, but notingly agree, mounts should be added.
2) Underwater Combat:
Come on now, I'm sorry but this is just cheesy. No movement penalty, magical or technological breathing apparel to explain infinite time underwater. I love underwater exploration, but I love it because in many games theres a large sense of danger because you are out of your element. -- You only have a small window of time to find what you're looking for or you run out of breath. You move slower and have to be more deliberate with where you go. Sometimes certain abilities don't work properly if at all under water, and the enemies you face are made for under water combat so they have an advantage. All these things that have been taken away made underwater adventures exciting and fun. Now its just the ground game with an XY and Z axis and a new bar for your spear gun. (or similar aquatic weapon).
Actually a mask is spawn on your face to keep you breathing underwater indefinitely.
Movement penalty makes the combat underwater slow as f*ck, how aobut instead of making you slower, simply make the underwater creature faster? You don't have to make the player slower to create an advantage for underwater creature, think outside the box?
So you first argue Anet not being realistic with the whole breathing underwater and no movement penalty, then you go ahread and say "Now its just the ground game with an XY and Z axis and a new bar for your spear gun. (or similar aquatic weapon)" so you should use fireball underwater? or maybe a sword underwater, cos that is really realistic right? Speargun is much more plausible.
3) WvWvW Roundrobin Matches and Lack of Open World PvP:
No, the mists aren't THE open world. They are an instanced piece of A open world that has absolutely nothing to do with the world you spend your time PvEing in. Whats worse? This world will change weekly, as will your opponents. Not just that but you'll be stacking up against these other "worlds" and if you continuously lose, don't fret, just transfer to that world for free at a later time.
don't understand what is wrong with world transfering, sure that 'destroys the community' but it isn't forced on you, if your friends want to change worlds, then why keep those guys in this world unwillingly? You can't force community on people, if they don't want to participate, you can't force them to. As for the mist, you get an entire world to PvP, I don't understand why it is so important for it to be not instanced......AN ENTIRE WORLD, like a giant space, it isn't jsut an arena
Open World PvP in itself gives that feeling of never knowing what will happen next. You could be gathering materials and get jumped by 6 guys in an area just a few hundred feet away from your faction city.
It also causes a problem call griefing, in case you didn't know about it. Getting jumped by 6 guys isn't fun, (no matter how you look at it), but hey lets put that in because it gives the feeling of never knowing what will happen next. Learn from this lesson? Do you want to hire 5 guys to follow you around protecting you? or learn to play your class so you can defeat 6 other players at the same time? yea that won't happen, that just mean one class is completely unbalanced.
In an instanced W v W v W, you know that by going in there, you'll be ganked, and you'll know when it will happen, because you'll be looking to do it yourself when you enter an area with W v W v W objectives.
Yes because getting jump is so fun right? There comes a point where fun and surprises draws a line, would you enjoy getting jumped by 6 guys in the real world? You wouldn't. Thats called anarchy, a state of unrest, and there is no difference in a MMO world.
Further more, W v W v W pits all worlds against eachother, and the idea behind a 3 faction system is to ensure that 2 factions can balance out 1 large faction. In a series of weekly battles where only 1 WORLD can win, 2 worlds teaming up to stop a third, more populated world could happen, but they wouldn't reap any benefits because they both also want the top spot. Not to mention these are just small week long battles, so there is no telling when you get matched up with other worlds if the other smaller world is even willing to cooperate. This issue is brought on by number 4.
Given nothing is actually been shown about the WvWvW, I wouldn't say too much in this regard, you don't even know how it will work.
4) No opposing Factions, Everyone in your world is a friend:
I get it, lets make everyone on a server friends! That way they'll work better together in W v W right? I don't think so. With opposing factions on the same server, you get to know your enemies, you get to know your friends, and you get to understand how other players work together and choose who you want to be associated with and who you don't. When you're grouped as an entire world, if 5 people form a group and spawn camp or abuse an exploit, the entire world will get a reputation for it. In factional same - server battles, you can simply choose not to play with those acting that way on your factions side. You also can get to know the other players on your server and create rivalries that you can play out day after day and not have to wait until the next week, or the week after that, or the week after that.
There will still be guilds, so " if 5 people form a group and spawn camp or abuse an exploit"that only reflects on the guild it is in, not the entire world, really?
Although I'm not 100% sure, but there will still be conflict between races, since Norn only respects on worthy warriors, and Charr destroyed Ascalon, Asura being the tiny annoying cute midget in the world :P
No way there isn't conflict between races
5) You get and A for Effort! :
Everyone gets rewards. EVERYONE. Did you just come in and kill that centaur before the event finished? Heres a trophy! Did you only gather 3 bird feathers out of the 100 everyone else gathered? Great job sport! Hey, looks like you spent most of your time in this event rubbing your keyboard on your dog, take this loot! In the same sense that if everyone is a hero, no one is, if everyone is getting rewards, its not much of a reward. Call it elitism if you want, but where I come from, you get rewarded for a job well done, not for just being there at the tail end of something, or deciding to whack a mole on your way to the auction house.
There are different rewards for differing level of participation, just because you are in an event doesn't guarantee you the top reward, you still have to work for it. Just standing there, prepare to get junk for reward.
6) Non Dynamic, Dynamic Events:
As was stated by the dev team, you have these Dynamic Events that are supposed to revolutionize the way players interact with the world, but what we've learned about them is that these events are essentially cyclical, they run in a linear path,
Um no devs have definitely said the Dynamic events will break into multiple chains, a major event will spawn multiple differing events, not linear progression.
and they often times have the same old MMO objectives we've seen as Anet was worried about making DEs too complex so that everyone can finish them and 1 asshole can't ruin it by aggroing a boss 2 seconds into the event.
Not sure where you got this impression, but I just read the report on Fan Day, and the new players got wiped multiple times before they were able to compete in the events. The exploration mode of dungeons are also apparently very challenging
Basically, these events start somewhat dynamically based on a set of objectives, or a timed cycle (every 2 hours, day/night, ETC) and events are sectioned into areas. For example, a bandit camp could form (step 1) raid the town (step 2) then from that point, they build fortifications (step 3) then raid 2 more towns (step 4). The players objectives are to push them from 4 to 1, or from 2 to 1, or just stop them at 1. But tomorrow, it will start again. The same areas, the same objectives, just over a much broader scale than a Public Quest. While the presentation seems great right now, my fear is that it will get played out very quickly when you run through the PvE content through the same areas with different characters. It will end up feeling exactly like every other MMO, with the only major changes being whatever personalized content you choose for yourself.
I think you need to get more info on Dynamic Events, events are not linear progression, choices are made through your actions to help or leave, and defeating a group of bandits won't just jump the event back to the start and restart, it isn't farming lol
But no amount of 'Dynamic event' will ever approach the expectation you have for it, for you to see unique events every time you pass the area, you need possibly 50 iteration of events spawner for just one area, then combine with the evolve chains, possibly 5 chains in each events, each with their own iterations, you are looking at 50P5=254251200 unique set of events in just one region. Do you want Guild Wars 2 to come out?
Well there you have it, thats my short list of dislikes. There is a longer list, but I wouldn't want to get nitpicky with things like the seizure enducing animations, or the introduction of forced abilities on your bar.
I am still excited for this game despite my dislikes, and I have similar dislikes over all games I look forward to. Just because you are looking forward to something doesn't mean you have to like everything about it.
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
It's simply a matter of scale.
GW2 is just built on a much, much smaller scale.
That doesn't mean anything. All that matters is content density. If you have 10 quests per zone in gw2 but only 3 in swtor, then more often than not you'll spend more time in a gw2 zone than a swtor zone and so see less loading screens. I'm not saying this is the case or that gw2 will have more dense content than swtor though it is ikely. I'm simply stating the biggest factor is density not size and that the density of content in each game is something we have no idea about.
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
First you can drop the condescending tone there pal, I understood your metaphor quite well, it was the fact you twisted what was said in order to use it that bothered me.
Is it hard to understand how an addition of something like that and using it could make the open world feel broken into zones? I don't think it is, there were plenty of complaints made about Oblivion for doing that and most had the same general vibe to them.
I don't know ask Bioware why you can't do that, I didn't design the game.
Your comparison would make sense if I had to get in a ship to travel from anchorhead to Mos Eisley, rather than drive my speederbike. That's the issue Swan was bringing up, breaking down the open world through insta travel. I personally have different reasons for not liking such an implementation. That's a worry it will take away the opportunity to meet people in the wilds, since people will be porting in to one activity then porting out to their next.
Again there is a difference, Tattooine and Alderaan are two separated open worlds, where as what Swan is talking about is one open world being broken away, no need to travel over an open plain, when you can just bring up your map and port to where you want to be. You're talking apples and oranges.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sounds like ToR will be a great alternative for you, GW2 is trying something new, deal with it.
No mounts? Who gives a ****. WvWvW could change a helluva lot between now and release. And wth, you complain about fast underwater movement, as if realism is actually important.
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
First you can drop the condescending tone there pal, I understood your metaphor quite well, it was the fact you twisted what was said in order to use it that bothered me.
Is it hard to understand how an addition of something like that and using it could make the open world feel broken into zones? I don't think it is, there were plenty of complaints made about Oblivion for doing that and most had the same general vibe to them.
I don't know ask Bioware why you can't do that, I didn't design the game.
Your comparison would make sense if I had to get in a ship to travel from anchorhead to Mos Eisley, rather than drive my speederbike. That's the issue Swan was bringing up, breaking down the open world through insta travel. I personally have different reasons for not liking such an implementation. That's a worry it will take away the opportunity to meet people in the wilds, since people will be porting in to one activity then porting out to their next.
Again there is a difference, Tattooine and Alderaan are two seperate open worlds, where as what Swan is talking about is one open world being broken away, no need to travel over an open plain, when you can just bring up your map and port to where you want to be. You're talking apples and oranges.
I still don't understand why map travel is considered a bad thing. I can understand it not being to someones tastes but I can't see why it can be considered an outright detriment. I hear people whine "it makes the world seem small" then don't use it. It costs money to use anyway. Your essentially blaming developers for your own laziness. It's a choice, it's not their fault you need to be forced to travel the old fashioned way because you lack any self control.
I could understand people being upset due to the lack of the mount. because it aides in doing what they enjoy doing which is taking the scenic route. Map travel however doesn't destroy this, it's your lack of self control which does this. Occasionally their may be a time where you want to get somewhere really fast because you only have a limited mount of time. No map travel removes being able to instantly get there. However map travel doesn't prevent you from walking to places.
It's fine not wanting map travel, but I don't think it's fair to start moaning about it being detrimental when it's solely down to you whether it's detrimental or not.
First you can drop the condescending tone there pal, I understood your metaphor quite well, it was the fact you twisted what was said in order to use it that bothered me.
Is it hard to understand how an addition of something like that and using it could make the open world feel broken into zones? I don't think it is, there were plenty of complaints made about Oblivion for doing that and most had the same general vibe to them.
I don't know ask Bioware why you can't do that, I didn't design the game.
Your comparison would make sense if I had to get in a ship to travel from anchorhead to Mos Eisley, rather than drive my speederbike. That's the issue Swan was bringing up, breaking down the open world through insta travel. I personally have different reasons for not liking such an implementation. That's a worry it will take away the opportunity to meet people in the wilds, since people will be porting in to one activity then porting out to their next.
Again there is a difference, Tattooine and Alderaan are two seperate open worlds, where as what Swan is talking about is one open world being broken away, no need to travel over an open plain, when you can just bring up your map and port to where you want to be. You're talking apples and oranges.
Oh yes because we all know everyone is going to be instant traveling around and never walking anywhere in GW2. After all characters do not need to find the waypoints first before they use them, oh wait they do. So the only way that becomes a problem is at level 80, when most people would have mounts and just ride everywhere anyway. After all people riding by you at 100MPH is so much friendly and more immersive then having waypoint travel.
OK what do you not understand about the fact that waypoint travel and portals between zones are two different game mechanics? So when she made the comment about GW2 having portals and the zones being nothing more than separate instances, there is no difference between that and TOR having different planets as separate instances. Waypoint travel has nothing to do with a portal between zones, just like you riding a speeder bike has nothing to do with a ship flying load screen between planets. Is this really that hard for you to understand that these two systems are not linked together!
And guess what the zones in GW2 are separate zones just like Tattooine and Alderaan so what the heck does that have to do with waypoint travel? After all last I checked both Tattooine and Alderaan were part of TOR and would be classified as zones in most MMOs. Or are we still talking apples and oranges because in no way shape or form are these two games designed similarly.
I still don't understand why map travel is considered a bad thing. I can understand it not being to someones tastes but I can't see why it can be considered an outright detriment. I hear people whine "it makes the world seem small" then don't use it. It costs money to use anyway. Your essentially blaming developers for your own laziness. It's a choice, it's not their fault you need to be forced to travel the old fashioned way because you lack any self control.
I could understand people being upset due to the lack of the mount. because it aides in doing what they enjoy doing which is taking the scenic route. Map travel however doesn't destroy this, it's your lack of self control which does this. Occasionally their may be a time where you want to get somewhere really fast because you only have a limited mount of time. No map travel removes being able to instantly get there. However map travel doesn't prevent you from waking to places.
I didn't say it's a bad thing exactly I just understand why others do feel that way, I personally just have a worry it will take away from the social experience I play MMO's for.
You're right though I said the same thing about oblivion complaints years ago, don't like it don't use it. That still doesn't solve my worry though. But I'm not going to expect people to play my way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First you can drop the condescending tone there pal, I understood your metaphor quite well, it was the fact you twisted what was said in order to use it that bothered me.
Is it hard to understand how an addition of something like that and using it could make the open world feel broken into zones? I don't think it is, there were plenty of complaints made about Oblivion for doing that and most had the same general vibe to them.
I don't know ask Bioware why you can't do that, I didn't design the game.
Your comparison would make sense if I had to get in a ship to travel from anchorhead to Mos Eisley, rather than drive my speederbike. That's the issue Swan was bringing up, breaking down the open world through insta travel. I personally have different reasons for not liking such an implementation. That's a worry it will take away the opportunity to meet people in the wilds, since people will be porting in to one activity then porting out to their next.
Again there is a difference, Tattooine and Alderaan are two seperate open worlds, where as what Swan is talking about is one open world being broken away, no need to travel over an open plain, when you can just bring up your map and port to where you want to be. You're talking apples and oranges.
Oh yes because we all know everyone is going to be instant traveling around and never walking anywhere in GW2. After all characters do not need to find the waypoints first before they use them, oh wait they do. So the only way that becomes a problem is at level 80, when most people would have mounts and just ride everywhere anyway. After all people riding by you at 100MPH is so much friendly and more immersive then having waypoint travel.
OK what do you not understand about the fact that waypoint travel and portals between zones are two different game mechanics? So when she made the comment about GW2 having portals and the zones being nothing more than separate instances, there is no difference between that and TOR having different planets as separate instances. Waypoint travel has nothing to do with a portal between zones, just like you riding a speeder bike has nothing to do with a ship flying load screen between planets. Is this really that hard for you to understand that these two systems are not linked together!
And guess what the zones in GW2 are separate zones just like Tattooine and Alderaan so what the heck does that have to do with waypoint travel? After all last I checked both Tattooine and Alderaan were part of TOR and would be classified as zones in most MMOs. Or are we still talking apples and oranges because in no way shape or form are these two games designed similarly.
Remember you're the one bringing TOR up..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And you know this from your hours and hours of playing both GW2 and TOR right?
And Malickie was wondering why I have so many sarcastic comments about TOR fans, I really wonder why can you answer this for me now Malickie?
"""oh yea.... big big world... sooo awesome yea? too big for nothing.. sand and... some mob... some quest.. *Tatooine*
hope those so awesome big world will be much better than Tatooine.. gameplay of Tatooine was sooo boring.""
What does this say about GW2 fans?
i should have deleted the useless part of that quote thats all. just sayin that if those planet are boring like Tatooine then the "spaceship loading screen" is useless. playing this game is useless. Monthly fee + EA Origin exclusive.... think i just got a lil berserk when thinking about Tatooine and Origin. My post probably have nothing to do with your discussion. just ignore this.
And you know this from your hours and hours of playing both GW2 and TOR right?
And Malickie was wondering why I have so many sarcastic comments about TOR fans, I really wonder why can you answer this for me now Malickie?
"""oh yea.... big big world... sooo awesome yea? too big for nothing.. sand and... some mob... some quest.. *Tatooine*
hope those so awesome big world will be much better than Tatooine.. gameplay of Tatooine was sooo boring.""
What does this say about GW2 fans?
i should have deleted the useless part of that quote thats all. just sayin that if those planet are boring like Tatooine then the "spaceship loading screen" is useless. playing this game is useless. Monthly fee + EA Origin exclusive.... think i just got a lil berserk when thinking about Tatooine and Origin. My post probably have nothing to do with your discussion. just ignore this.
Heh, I agree. If they are all as lifeless as Tatt looked it will be a horrible experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Unless you mean IC scale, then this is absolutely false. None of the areas we've seen in TOR compare to the size of Tyria's map zones in terms of content or size. Seriously, look up some of the map analysis threads at GW2G. In a recent interview, Eric Flannum reiterated this point by saying that GW2's Tyria needs to be on the scale of MMOs which have been out for years, like WoW, at launch.
Originally posted by Malickie
First you can drop the condescending tone there pal, I understood your metaphor quite well, it was the fact you twisted what was said in order to use it that bothered me.
Is it hard to understand how an addition of something like that and using it could make the open world feel broken into zones? I don't think it is, there were plenty of complaints made about Oblivion for doing that and most had the same general vibe to them.
I don't know ask Bioware why you can't do that, I didn't design the game.
Your comparison would make sense if I had to get in a ship to travel from anchorhead to Mos Eisley, rather than drive my speederbike. That's the issue Swan was bringing up, breaking down the open world through insta travel. I personally have different reasons for not liking such an implementation. That's a worry it will take away the opportunity to meet people in the wilds, since people will be porting in to one activity then porting out to their next.
Again there is a difference, Tattooine and Alderaan are two separated open worlds, where as what Swan is talking about is one open world being broken away, no need to travel over an open plain, when you can just bring up your map and port to where you want to be. You're talking apples and oranges.
Firstly, The only places you can get to without an in-game charge are the racial capitals and Lion's Arch. Everything else costs money every single time you port there. It's more economical to travel on foot, which you can do at different speeds in GW2. You also need to discover waypoints before you can use them, which means you can just map travel to the high-end areas right from the off.
Secondly, there are a lot of events between waypoints, so you can't just map to them and map out to something else. In addition, because of the dynamic nature of events, they'll move across the map (raids, poisoned crops) and, outside of in game chat, there's no way of knowing what stage any event will be, or whether it'll be at a stage near to 'X' waypoint before you get there. Since anyone can join in with any event at any time, it's much easier to meet people in the wilds and play co-operatively than in other MMOs
Thirdly, there are environmental weapons and skills which function similarly to mounts. These are G.O.L.E.M. battlesuits. There's also concept and renders of motorcycles and airships. We've seen a few mechanical vehicles within the Black Citadel and other areas too. It's possible that these modes of transport might be opened up to players at some point. I'm not sure if they'd function like mounts or more like carriages out of player control, but they do exist in the world.
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
Some good points. #5 is pretty funny. I think it's SILLY to instantly travel everywhere in the world. I think that defeats the purpose of the world being big. Now, I don't think it should take real time hours to get anywhere, but instant? blah. It just reminds me that this game will HAVE PORTALS to zones. Basically saying, each zone is a small instance.
I'd much prefer mounts, or if they still want porting, only certain places can be ported to FROM OTHER certain places. So you must run to a shrine to port to other shrines. And they cost money or even better "Faction" with the shrine.
I am not all that worried on underwater combat. Although it does seem a bit different, I'll have to try it and see.
And I 100% agree with the whole instanced WvWvW. It's not open world. It's just a ZONE (think Wintergrasp, or JUST the lakes in Warhammer with portals to get in or out). There aren't "PvP servers" where you play your PvE and have to think about the other side. It's 100% PvE for the game, except for the Mists. I'm not saying the combat won't be fun nor will the pvp be terrible.
My other biggest complaint about GW2 is how huge builds become, and how the only way to beat certain builds is other specific builds. You're doing your HoHs in GW1 with your "skilled" IWAY a while ago, suddenly you run into a frozen Soil/Necro Spike build and get run over. It became so much less about the pvp and skills, and about your specific build. And because there is no world PvP, it's going to go straight back to that...again.
Hey guys. Before you jump on the wagon to hate on me because I "dissed" your game, I will be playing GW2. I want GW2 to be fun. I want it to be amazing. I know, I know, I also like TOR. I'm a crazy one!
You call WvWvW an instance and then you call it a zone? Way to contradict yourself. Can people just stop with the whole "WvWvW is instanced" bullshit? It's not, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to spread misinformation to make it look bad.
I also find it rather hilarious that you are judging GW2 builds based on GW1 builds. Seeing as how they are COMPLETELY different, please don't criticise something you are uninformed on.
Edit: I don't see how DEs can become just like WAR PQs. PQs were only side content to quests and they were completely and utterly static. DEs are the main form of PvE content in GW2, they aren't they same exact thing every time and they don't restart every 5 minutes.
A zoned instanced. What have you. It's still in a tiny area that is not opened. You ZONE into it, beyond that barrier there is no PvP. Sorry, I'll try to word it a little better.
What else should I base the PvP on? There is GW1 they made. That seems a very good basis. Sure, you can change weapons/attunements. But you'll base those set skills to beat other set skills.
DEs ARE the same thing. There will be a limited number of "changes" in each DE. So one DE might have "5" stages. It can go forward or back. But Stage 4 will ALWAYS be the same thing. Stage 3 will ALWAYS be the same thing. Sure, it can go "backwards" or "Forwards". And stages may not go off every 5 seconds (although in the videos I've seen, some went to the next stage VERY quickly). So while I am some will take hours to "update" some wil lbe quite short.
Just pointing out things that seem fairly obvious. No reason to jump all over me like I'm personally attacking you.
WvWvW is NOT an instance. If you keep saying that then it shows you don't know what an instance is. An instance is only open to you and your group, WvWvW is open to everyone who decides to enter it.
You shouldn't base GW2 off of anything because it's its own game. Simply basing it off of GW1 just because it is made by ArenaNet is a very stupid thing to do. Actually try to inform yourself before you make opinions.
DEs AREN'T the same thing. Once again, inform yourself. I'm not going to do it again because I already gave you several MAJOR differences and you chose to ignore them.
I'm not jumping over you like you're attacking me. I'm correcting stupid mistakes that I usually see coming from people who are only trying to make GW2 look bad.
Trying to make GW2 look bad? Sorry dude. I'm not out for any game like some people who post on these forums are for TOR. I've said, I'll be playing GW2 for sure, no matter what. I enjoy GW1. I will enjoy GW2. I don't hate a game because it's doing a certain thing. I've seen posts from people, maybe even yours, that hate on a certain game, posting incorrect information with no backing as fact.
So what you are telling me is, Arathi Basin, Scenarios, Warzones, etc aren't Instances? Wintergrasp isn't an instance (when it's in session)? I call it an instance for the fact that, you are not freely walking around the world and encounter people. It's ONLY this "zone/instance" that you can PvP in. Great, you can Join/leave anytime you wish. But it's still a "port" to get there. You are not doing everyday normal quests anywhere in the world (except starter areas!) and running into someone from another world.
So you are saying that during stage one of a certain DE, that stage one will be different everytime you do it? So instead of facing centaurs that attack a village, you'll have an epic build of of trash the npcs thrown away that you need to clear before it pollutes the water? Interesting.
SURE, different DEs will have different objectives then others (to an extent, it will involve killing/clicking/gathering in all of them I'm sure) but for EACH seperate one, it is the exact same thing over and over.
Firstly, The only places you can get to without an in-game charge are the racial capitals and Lion's Arch. Everything else costs money every single time you port there. It's more economical to travel on foot, which you can do at different speeds in GW2. You also need to discover waypoints before you can use them, which means you can just map travel to the high-end areas right from the off.
Secondly, there are a lot of events between waypoints, so you can't just map to them and map out to something else. In addition, because of the dynamic nature of events, they'll move across the map (raids, poisoned crops) and, outside of in game chat, there's no way of knowing what stage any event will be, or whether it'll be at a stage near to 'X' waypoint before you get there. Since anyone can join in with any event at any time, it's much easier to meet people in the wilds and play co-operatively than in other MMOs
Thirdly, there are environmental weapons and skills which function similarly to mounts. These are G.O.L.E.M. battlesuits. There's also concept and renders of motorcycles and airships. We've seen a few mechanical vehicles within the Black Citadel and other areas too. It's possible that these modes of transport might be opened up to players at some point. I'm not sure if they'd function like mounts or more like carriages out of player control, but they do exist in the world.
Cool, wasn't aware of some of this, though I could have sworn there was a statement made there would be no mounts in GW2?
Matter of fact I recall a whole thread on it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes I did, because I know she is following TOR because I have seen her discussing it on this forum. Now if you follow with me you will understand why I brought up TOR. See she said GW2 having portals makes it seem like all the zones are separate instances. If that truly is a valid point then she must have the same complainant about TOR, after all the planets are separate instances with a ship flying load screen. If that arguments does not hold true for both games then that is called hypocrisy, and that was exactly what I was trying to point out.
Now if her statement was just I do not like the waypoints they ruin my immersion, I would have never said anything. But there is a huge difference between that and what was originally said that started this conversation. Now do you see to me this was never about the waypoints, it was about the portal comment, I wanted to see if that truth she was trying to promote held true to all games. Not that I am trying to be mean to her, but I wanted to see if this was a cause of hypocrisy or not. Because I do not see how you can be all up in arms against the portal in GW2 but all nice and happy about the load screen between planets in TOR.
Comments
People will still be special or neccessary.
People will still keep somebody alive through an encounter, or save the group from a wipe.
THe difference is that it won't be because of your class, it will be because of the player.
That's all. So if you want everybody to be 'oh crap, we have GOT to get stevebmbsqd back in our party, he totally kept us from spending all our time dead', then you just have to be awesome.
Personally, I like it that way.
Read this article, there are many from the fanday that explain group combat. And it in itself sounds special, and there will indeed be those "players" that shine rather than special classes. http://www.talktyria.net/2011/06/29/guild-wars2-necromancer-dungeon-underwater-comba/
It's very short and I highly advise reading the first part about the dungeon, it is interesting to read.
I guess we will have to wait and see.... I am done following the hype. I try to keep my expectations down till I actually play the game. The last few releases have proven that not all that glitters is gold........
You really have something against TOR fans don't you? That said, I think you're misunderstanding what he was talking about. He's talking about the use of insta travel in the open world, and how it will make him feel. Ruining his immersion in the world, and making each place feel small. AT least that's how I read it. You're either misunderstanding it or purposefully twisting it to make an argument against TOR.
There's a big diffwerence between that, and travelling from planet to planet aboard a ship, as it still adds to the immersion of the experience. Why would I expect to walk through space as an example?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So in order to say I do not like instant travel they have to bring up the possibility of GW2 having portals between zones. That is one of the most twisted convoluted form of logic that I have ever read!
Ok then let me change this for you since you apparently can’t understand a metaphor, In TOR why can’t I get into a ship that I pilot and fly from planet to planet? Having a load screen that shows a ship flying from planet to planet ruins my immersion and makes each place feel small. So how come this is all right in TOR but at the same time I am going to complain very loudly that GW2 might have portals and a load screen. It is not like these two game systems have anything in common, not at all!
Now if she would have said I do not like instant travel because it ruins my immersion. That would be one thing, but nope she brought in portals as if that somehow reinforces her opinion of why instant travel is bad. Well then why is the portal bad in GW2 but the ship load screen is fine in TOR. Does GW2 need to add a load screen of your character riding a Dolyak between zones, and then all will be fantastic and great?
It's simply a matter of scale.
GW2 is just built on a much, much smaller scale.
And you know this from your hours and hours of playing both GW2 and TOR right?
And Malickie was wondering why I have so many sarcastic comments about TOR fans, I really wonder why can you answer this for me now Malickie?
oh yea.... big big world... sooo awesome yea? too big for nothing.. sand and... some mob... some quest.. *Tatooine*
hope those so awesome big world will be much better than Tatooine.. gameplay of Tatooine was sooo boring.
To cheer you up
here are some videos
http://www.g4tv.com/videos/54023/the-mmo-report-guild-wars-2-preview-special/ devs talks about the features of GW2, pretty enlightening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRI_twOZ8hI&hd=110 min of hd combat.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
That doesn't mean anything. All that matters is content density. If you have 10 quests per zone in gw2 but only 3 in swtor, then more often than not you'll spend more time in a gw2 zone than a swtor zone and so see less loading screens. I'm not saying this is the case or that gw2 will have more dense content than swtor though it is ikely. I'm simply stating the biggest factor is density not size and that the density of content in each game is something we have no idea about.
First you can drop the condescending tone there pal, I understood your metaphor quite well, it was the fact you twisted what was said in order to use it that bothered me.
Is it hard to understand how an addition of something like that and using it could make the open world feel broken into zones? I don't think it is, there were plenty of complaints made about Oblivion for doing that and most had the same general vibe to them.
I don't know ask Bioware why you can't do that, I didn't design the game.
Your comparison would make sense if I had to get in a ship to travel from anchorhead to Mos Eisley, rather than drive my speederbike. That's the issue Swan was bringing up, breaking down the open world through insta travel. I personally have different reasons for not liking such an implementation. That's a worry it will take away the opportunity to meet people in the wilds, since people will be porting in to one activity then porting out to their next.
Again there is a difference, Tattooine and Alderaan are two separated open worlds, where as what Swan is talking about is one open world being broken away, no need to travel over an open plain, when you can just bring up your map and port to where you want to be. You're talking apples and oranges.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"""oh yea.... big big world... sooo awesome yea? too big for nothing.. sand and... some mob... some quest.. *Tatooine*
hope those so awesome big world will be much better than Tatooine.. gameplay of Tatooine was sooo boring.""
What does this say about GW2 fans?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't really get why you are crying though.
Sounds like ToR will be a great alternative for you, GW2 is trying something new, deal with it.
No mounts? Who gives a ****. WvWvW could change a helluva lot between now and release. And wth, you complain about fast underwater movement, as if realism is actually important.
I still don't understand why map travel is considered a bad thing. I can understand it not being to someones tastes but I can't see why it can be considered an outright detriment. I hear people whine "it makes the world seem small" then don't use it. It costs money to use anyway. Your essentially blaming developers for your own laziness. It's a choice, it's not their fault you need to be forced to travel the old fashioned way because you lack any self control.
I could understand people being upset due to the lack of the mount. because it aides in doing what they enjoy doing which is taking the scenic route. Map travel however doesn't destroy this, it's your lack of self control which does this. Occasionally their may be a time where you want to get somewhere really fast because you only have a limited mount of time. No map travel removes being able to instantly get there. However map travel doesn't prevent you from walking to places.
It's fine not wanting map travel, but I don't think it's fair to start moaning about it being detrimental when it's solely down to you whether it's detrimental or not.
Oh yes because we all know everyone is going to be instant traveling around and never walking anywhere in GW2. After all characters do not need to find the waypoints first before they use them, oh wait they do. So the only way that becomes a problem is at level 80, when most people would have mounts and just ride everywhere anyway. After all people riding by you at 100MPH is so much friendly and more immersive then having waypoint travel.
OK what do you not understand about the fact that waypoint travel and portals between zones are two different game mechanics? So when she made the comment about GW2 having portals and the zones being nothing more than separate instances, there is no difference between that and TOR having different planets as separate instances. Waypoint travel has nothing to do with a portal between zones, just like you riding a speeder bike has nothing to do with a ship flying load screen between planets. Is this really that hard for you to understand that these two systems are not linked together!
And guess what the zones in GW2 are separate zones just like Tattooine and Alderaan so what the heck does that have to do with waypoint travel? After all last I checked both Tattooine and Alderaan were part of TOR and would be classified as zones in most MMOs. Or are we still talking apples and oranges because in no way shape or form are these two games designed similarly.
I didn't say it's a bad thing exactly I just understand why others do feel that way, I personally just have a worry it will take away from the social experience I play MMO's for.
You're right though I said the same thing about oblivion complaints years ago, don't like it don't use it. That still doesn't solve my worry though. But I'm not going to expect people to play my way.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Remember you're the one bringing TOR up..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i should have deleted the useless part of that quote thats all. just sayin that if those planet are boring like Tatooine then the "spaceship loading screen" is useless. playing this game is useless. Monthly fee + EA Origin exclusive.... think i just got a lil berserk when thinking about Tatooine and Origin. My post probably have nothing to do with your discussion. just ignore this.
Heh, I agree. If they are all as lifeless as Tatt looked it will be a horrible experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Let's avoid any baiting guys. Thanks.
Unless you mean IC scale, then this is absolutely false. None of the areas we've seen in TOR compare to the size of Tyria's map zones in terms of content or size. Seriously, look up some of the map analysis threads at GW2G. In a recent interview, Eric Flannum reiterated this point by saying that GW2's Tyria needs to be on the scale of MMOs which have been out for years, like WoW, at launch.
Firstly, The only places you can get to without an in-game charge are the racial capitals and Lion's Arch. Everything else costs money every single time you port there. It's more economical to travel on foot, which you can do at different speeds in GW2. You also need to discover waypoints before you can use them, which means you can just map travel to the high-end areas right from the off.
Secondly, there are a lot of events between waypoints, so you can't just map to them and map out to something else. In addition, because of the dynamic nature of events, they'll move across the map (raids, poisoned crops) and, outside of in game chat, there's no way of knowing what stage any event will be, or whether it'll be at a stage near to 'X' waypoint before you get there. Since anyone can join in with any event at any time, it's much easier to meet people in the wilds and play co-operatively than in other MMOs
Thirdly, there are environmental weapons and skills which function similarly to mounts. These are G.O.L.E.M. battlesuits. There's also concept and renders of motorcycles and airships. We've seen a few mechanical vehicles within the Black Citadel and other areas too. It's possible that these modes of transport might be opened up to players at some point. I'm not sure if they'd function like mounts or more like carriages out of player control, but they do exist in the world.
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
Trying to make GW2 look bad? Sorry dude. I'm not out for any game like some people who post on these forums are for TOR. I've said, I'll be playing GW2 for sure, no matter what. I enjoy GW1. I will enjoy GW2. I don't hate a game because it's doing a certain thing. I've seen posts from people, maybe even yours, that hate on a certain game, posting incorrect information with no backing as fact.
So what you are telling me is, Arathi Basin, Scenarios, Warzones, etc aren't Instances? Wintergrasp isn't an instance (when it's in session)? I call it an instance for the fact that, you are not freely walking around the world and encounter people. It's ONLY this "zone/instance" that you can PvP in. Great, you can Join/leave anytime you wish. But it's still a "port" to get there. You are not doing everyday normal quests anywhere in the world (except starter areas!) and running into someone from another world.
So you are saying that during stage one of a certain DE, that stage one will be different everytime you do it? So instead of facing centaurs that attack a village, you'll have an epic build of of trash the npcs thrown away that you need to clear before it pollutes the water? Interesting.
SURE, different DEs will have different objectives then others (to an extent, it will involve killing/clicking/gathering in all of them I'm sure) but for EACH seperate one, it is the exact same thing over and over.
Cool, wasn't aware of some of this, though I could have sworn there was a statement made there would be no mounts in GW2?
Matter of fact I recall a whole thread on it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes I did, because I know she is following TOR because I have seen her discussing it on this forum. Now if you follow with me you will understand why I brought up TOR. See she said GW2 having portals makes it seem like all the zones are separate instances. If that truly is a valid point then she must have the same complainant about TOR, after all the planets are separate instances with a ship flying load screen. If that arguments does not hold true for both games then that is called hypocrisy, and that was exactly what I was trying to point out.
Now if her statement was just I do not like the waypoints they ruin my immersion, I would have never said anything. But there is a huge difference between that and what was originally said that started this conversation. Now do you see to me this was never about the waypoints, it was about the portal comment, I wanted to see if that truth she was trying to promote held true to all games. Not that I am trying to be mean to her, but I wanted to see if this was a cause of hypocrisy or not. Because I do not see how you can be all up in arms against the portal in GW2 but all nice and happy about the load screen between planets in TOR.
There won't be mounts, like in other games, upon release. I imagine there will be vehicles like there were in GW though.
ANet hasn't ruled out mounts for the future though. So mount lovers, keep up the hope.