Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Summit results... Statements by CCP and CSM plus a video
Brenelael
Member UncommonPosts: 3,821
The results of the summit have been posted here. The statements of both CCP and the CSM are as follows:
CCP Zulu published a dev blog on Sunday, June 26 which talked about an upcoming summit with the CSM and CCP to "discuss the events of the past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy." During the last two days the CSM have discussed these issues with CCP Zulu (Senior Producer for EVE Online), CCP Soundwave (Lead Game Designer, Flying in Space) and CCP Flying Scotsman (Lead Game Designer, Incarna). CCP and the CSM have produced statements below which reflect the main talking points of the summit along with a video featuring CCP Zulu and The Mittani, the current Chairman of the CSM.
The CSM departed Iceland today and many of them will be in transit for quite a few hours. We are confident that they will want to answer your questions and reply to your comments but this may not happen until they are back at home.
Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online
Following the series of events surrounding the launch of Incarna, CCP invited the Council of Stellar Management (CSM) to an extraordinary meeting in Reykjavik to discuss and address a variety of topics ranging from ship spinning to performance to virtual goods strategies. The discussions were very productive and both parties came to an understanding and agreement on key topics. That meeting has now ended and a firm resolution reached by both parties.
CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.
It is CCP‘s plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCP‘s plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis.
CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.
The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with „ship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
We are very happy with the results of the meetings and appreciate the commitment to EVE the CSM members have shown by attending the meeting on short notice.
Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online
Statement on behalf of the Council of Stellar Management from The Mittani, Chairman of CSM 6
The CSM came to Reykjavik for this extraordinary summit to address the cloud of suspicion and fear which has descended upon CCP and the EVE community in the aftermath of the Incarna expansion and the various internal leaks.
The issues we have addressed and discussed with CCP are:
Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden.
Noble Exchange Rollout Debacle: We were shocked and appalled to discover how badly the planning and implementation of the Noble Exchange was executed. Despite the fact that they did not have enough assets of the right types to do a proper rollout, they launched anyway. The CSM believes that if CCP had properly communicated the details of their vanity goods pricing strategy and had sufficient low-tier items available at launch, the controversy would have been greatly reduced. CCP will issue a dev blog in the near future explaining their vanity goods strategy and how it will be implemented in the Noble Exchange.
Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
The Fearless "Greed is Good?" Leak: We accept CCP's position that Fearless is a deliberately controversial internal publication and does not represent the policy of CCP Management or of CCP Zulu, the Senior Producer of EVE Online, nor the direction of game design.
The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.
Arnar (CCP Zulu)'s Angry Friday Blog: We were disappointed by the tone taken in Arnar's Blog, but we understand that he was in a state of extreme agitation and reacting to the leaks coming from within his company, which he saw as a breach of trust. While we may disagree with some of his decisions, we are united in our support of Arnar as the Senior Producer, and were pleased with his followup Apology Blog. We hope that his statement today will begin to restore your trust in his leadership and vision.
We believe that the situation that has unfolded in the past week has been a perfect storm of CCP communication failures, poor planning and sheer bad luck. Most of these issues, when dealt with in isolation, were reasonably simple to discuss and resolve, but combined they transformed a series of errors into the most significant crisis the EVE community has yet experienced.
We hope that this meeting will be the first step in the restoration of trust between CCP and the EVE community, and we will keep the community informed as to CCP's efforts in delivering on the commitments they have made to us and to you.
You can watch the video here.
I think they have come to a very satisfactory agreement. Between the CCP and CSM statements all issues were addressed and the outcome was very good. Hopefully CCP sticks to their end of the bargin.
EDIT: Make sure you watch the vid... it's as important as the statements as there are points not covered by either statement. Thanks.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Comments
Hmmm, It looks good on paper, going to watch the video as well... I'm also eager to see what the other CSM members say when they get home and settled.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
I knew CCP would do the right thing!
Very interesting. Now I guess the "community" can relax its stress on wanting CCP to make it clear that there will not be anything else than vanity items in their store. This point has, as far as I have understand, been the main fuel that kept the fire going.
Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.
I still think a cash shop is a HUGE mistake for a game like EVE, I also still think it is very greedy of CCP to expect people to pay a subscription price as well as have a cash shop.
I'm not going to support EVE until one of two things happens: A) EVE goes free to play. This is the best way to prevent double dipping into the players' wallets like they are set on doing now. A "freemium" model might be the best bet here.
Get rid of the cash shop. It seems that CCP is hell bent on ruining their own game with greed and they won't get rid of the cash shop. This is just such a big mistake, especially for a game like EVE, but their greed has CCP by the balls.
As long as they stick to fluff items like they've promised I really don't see an issue with it. News flash: You don't need the Monocle or Quafe tee-shirt to play EVE you know.
MT in one form or another is taking over the genre... if you don't like it I suggest finding a different type of game to play.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Smart version: The community freakout actually caused CCP to back-peddle faster than a guy finding out his girlfriend was actually a man, baby.
Honestly, did they need to fly out four people to Iceland to find out that players wanted assurance there would be no non-vanity items?
Gratz to Eve'rs, and I really mean that. But you guys haven't won, they are just bidding their time. I know you guys weren't just afraid of what was going to happen out of nothing. It was the feeling you got from their actions that caused suspicions right?
Unfortunately, nitwits (cough) that play don't even know what you've done for them, even after seeing the result.
Exactly my thought +1
If the whole community would have acted like sheep in this process then things might have turned out differently.
~Bravo to the rebels~
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
CCP had always said they wouldn't be adding gold ammo, ships or anything that would alter game play. In the end it came down to a lot of people jumping the gun, because of an internal memo throwing ideas around. So in other words they should have trusted them to do the right thing from the very beginning.
I expected this to be the outcome. But it might not have been the outcome if not the freaks had raised the crusade banner of death on the subject.
they said they were going to lower prices
they said they were only going to sell vanity items such as sparkly pants
they also said that everything will be able to be looted and/or placed on the market
therefore you could easely get your full vanity outfit for a couple hundred million isk on the market
they also said that the vanity shop is like buying GUCCI instead of WalMart pair of jeans, this means that you will have your regular outfits that you can get for a few thousand isk.
so in my eyes, i want pants? sure ill go to the market and get the normal pants. i have isk to waste sure ill pay 100M for the pants made of pure Arkonor molecules (i just made that name up
) and in the end
CCP got 30USD$ from someone who has money to throw away while i got the item in game with ISK because i have time in game to throw away. and in no way have those fancy pants made that other player have any kind of advantage over me because ill probably end up blowing his ship with a bunch of other fancy pants in its cargohold. that i put in the market to make my money back
Regardless of what might or might not have been (no one really knows besides CCP). CCP has a clear understanding where the community stands on this subject now don't they!!
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Don't expect many of them to ever admit they may have been wrong, they'll just say it was the plan regardless, companies will admit when they're wrong, it's in their interest to, consumers, especially forum regulars? Ha! that will be the day.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So monocles are still $70's minimum price (for now). Ay yi yi.
Nah, no return to EVE planned even after the settlements reached at the meeting. Admittedly, it's been a while since I last played but I'm not incensed to return at all now. As I'm just one person I'm sure CCP will get over that fast.
This is absurd. I understand clearly about the controversy involving MT's, but throwing tantrums about not having "spinning ships?" If those brats, and the term fits the definition, want unimmersive boring space games, they should go play 'Dark Orbit' or some FB knockoff version.
The idea that CCP is even considering re-adding the spinning ships kiddie version has me wanting to cancel personally. I enjoy games that evolve with technology and have immersion, not boring kiddie games trying to pretend to be a space mmo.
As long as CCP keeps caving to every qualm players have, they'll stay where they are economically, it's sad really. The more money CCP has the better experience Eve will be and the further it will evolve. Most consumers are too short sighted to think about these things though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ding! Ding! Ding!
That was the whole point. Sitting at idle (as many mmo'ers love to do) would have been a green light for CCP. We really will never know what the actual truth was with respect to CCP's plans for the cash shop. It could be just as they say, or it could have been much worse than any of us could imagine.
Also, Teb: simple name calling? Try making a contribution to the thread instead of dropping childlike insults.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
And what about, in their own words, that they had planned to sell Scorpions without requiring a trade-in, until people made a fuss?
Or their promise to never implement a cash shop like the one they are implementing right now?
What the hell are these people who keep saying Eve'rs jumped the gun seeing?
CCP's backpedaling is the direct result of people with the torches and pitchforks. Same thing with FFXIV, yet people keep thinking these companies will do the right thing on their own.
When bad things happen, they sit on their butts and do nothing. If the bad things stay, they say oh, it doesn't make a difference. If the stuff gets repealed, they say see, they would have repealed it anyway.
Deadweights.
LMFAO.
I believe it was those who sat at idle that would fall into the short sighted bin. Those who protested, fall into the bin of foresight. Remaining static and just settling for whatever may come is not the wisest behaviour.
Milking their playerbase was not in CCP's best interest no matter how you want to spin it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
There's a huge difference between stating concerns and making them known, and running from the pieces falling from the sky. What I saw was the latter.
As for scorpions you're only telling half the story. What you're saying was only to be a temporary issue.
Where is that promise to never add a cash shop by the way? Linky?
You're also forgetting that the CSM acknowledged there seemed to be no plan what so ever of offering game altering changes.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Haha. I read this thread and saw a bunch of people still bashing the people that fought to keep all the non-vanity items out. Maybe it's because the money they get from their parents, so they don't care what happens in the game. But, what these so-called nerd ragers did was save the game from being another pay-to-win.
You can also say that they weren't going to put non-vanity items in the game, anyways. Really? How long have you been playing MMOs? It's only a matter of time before they put ships and such in the game. The people that don't care about the cash shop having ships, ammo and so on ... Need to really get a job and quit getting allowance.. Or, spend your money on something better ... Like food for your kids.
Hmm, I'm not talking about the pay to win concerns, I'm talking about people who lack an understanding of moving a product forward rather than backward. Keep patting yourself on the back though, about issues you have no clue would have come to fruition or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All BS. CCP has always said publicly they would never add p2win items to their MT. Despite what some of you wish for, it just never happened. Even CCP knows that if they did that it would be the end of EVE. They know it, we players know it. End of story. So stop trying to make up stuff...because that is exactly what you are doing. Either stick to what we all know as facts or don't comment on heresay. That leaked document, real as it was, was an internal document meant for the eyes of CCP employees only and if you have ever worked in a corporation you know these types of "internal" papers are for people to toss about ideas and thoughts. We did this at HP, Canon and every other big corp I have ever worked for.
You ask too much from EVE players.
They are unable to approach an information with a grain of critical thinking, yet you think they could understand what it takes to run a business?
?
I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.