I still think a cash shop is a HUGE mistake for a game like EVE, I also still think it is very greedy of CCP to expect people to pay a subscription price as well as have a cash shop.
I'm not going to support EVE until one of two things happens: A) EVE goes free to play. This is the best way to prevent double dipping into the players' wallets like they are set on doing now. A "freemium" model might be the best bet here. Get rid of the cash shop. It seems that CCP is hell bent on ruining their own game with greed and they won't get rid of the cash shop. This is just such a big mistake, especially for a game like EVE, but their greed has CCP by the balls.
As long as they stick to fluff items like they've promised I really don't see an issue with it. News flash: You don't need the Monocle or Quafe tee-shirt to play EVE you know.
MT in one form or another is taking over the genre... if you don't like it I suggest finding a different type of game to play.
Bren
Most games that go down the RMT route nowadays eventually start using the free to play, or "freemium," monetization model. No matter how you look at it, the cash shop in EVE is the developers using money from subscriptions to make items to sell to those paying subscriptions. They are double dipping, pure and simple. CCP has got aboard the greed train and EVE is now in the same "not worth your money" category as Star Trek Online.
Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.
Smart version: The community freakout actually caused CCP to back-peddle faster than a guy finding out his girlfriend was actually a man, baby.
Honestly, did they need to fly out four people to Iceland to find out that players wanted assurance there would be no non-vanity items?
Gratz to Eve'rs, and I really mean that. But you guys haven't won, they are just bidding their time. I know you guys weren't just afraid of what was going to happen out of nothing. It was the feeling you got from their actions that caused suspicions right?
Unfortunately, nitwits (cough) that play don't even know what you've done for them, even after seeing the result.
Exactly my thought +1
If the whole community would have acted like sheep in this process then things might have turned out differently.
~Bravo to the rebels~
CCP had always said they wouldn't be adding gold ammo, ships or anything that would alter game play. In the end it came down to a lot of people jumping the gun, because of an internal memo throwing ideas around. So in other words they should have trusted them to do the right thing from the very beginning.
That attitude of the "Greed is Good" newletter as well as CCP's presidet's e-mail "who cares what the players say, pay atrention to what they do," tells me that CCP are looking to monetize the crap out of EVE. It's only player resistence that is preventing them from doing what they like.
You have to be naieve, or a HUGE CCP fanboy not to see this.
It's nice to see people being grateful towards CSM (or whatever it's called). They aren't paid to do this (are they?), and they spent alot of time and energy on this game. However, I'd like to express my gratitude towards CCP as well - even though I dont play EVE. CSM could easy just be some glorious front figure that could just be set aside when push comes to shove. CCP has that power. Yet, they showed humility and respect for the role of CSM, and that is both wise and nice to see. The video seemed almost to be "hosted" by the CSM - it looked like he ran the show. That was very interesting and a little bit awkward in my opinion - but in a good way. It portrayed CCP in a more vulnerable, personal way - again, I think that shows strenght and wisdom.
So I take it you like the privilege of having to pay a subscription so you can test pre alpha builds of another games engine? Most people angry at the loss of the hanger do not really care about ship spinning itself they resent the state the captains quarters was in when it was shoveled out of the door.
They resent its poor performance, they resent the fact that many EVE players tend to do other things with their PCs when docked, they resent the way its performance issues are even worse with multiple clients running and they also hate the fact that if you turn it off you get a terrible low res picture of a brown door. Having to load CQ every time you dock really impacts some players performance, its especially annoying when you dock to say pick up a single item.
The problems are not really limited to older or less high end machines, some people with bleeding edge machines have huge problems yet others with less powerful machines have fewer problems. The problems are caused purely by bad optimisation because the Incarna engine is a test engine for World of Darkness yet EVE players have to pay for this rubbish.
Losing the hanger also impacted functionality, with station environments turned off for example you cannot see directly which ship you are flying and have to open a ships cargo to place things inside, these are two examples of how you don't need more clicks in an already difficult UI.
Its not like the captains quarters are actually any good, there is nothing to do, nothing to customise, you cant even change whats displayed on the screen and as for clothes we where given the choice of less than 10 items which where all loltastically overpriced.
So EVE players where forced to use a rubbish captains quarters which has no functionality and took functionality away and has dreadful optimization issues.
I think EVE players where justified in being angry and it was no "tantrum".
This.
Plus if the CQ actually added anything to the game other then being able to stare at yourself in the mirror while wearing your monocle I could see the arguements, but staring at a tv while sitting on a couch is not really what I call moving forward gameplay. Spinning spaceship in a spaceship game, or looking at avatar wearing your mt'd quafe shirt and monocle, and your picking the mirror as adding immersion?
I'm not sure what the guy is talking about in reference to the poor state of CQs, ran fine for me, loads fairly fast to, can't relate on those complaints (my pc is junk to). You two are exactly what I was talking about though, you're wanting the game to stagnate, at least that's the way I see it.
People pay a sub to EVE to play EVE, which nothing has changed about what EVE has always been, they're only trying to expand on what EVE is. I'm not going to call you names, but I do find the arguments you're making to be ridiculous at best idiotic at worse. Before you run for the report button, I'm attacking your agrument not you.
You're acting as though the only plans for incarna are the CQ's, which is disingeuous. CCP obviously wants to expand the experience EVE offers, they want it to be more than a "space ship game". What is wrong with that?
They've explained in detail how they are rolling these features out and the why of it. If you haven't bothered to inform yourself, or just plain ignore the reasoning, I don't know what to tell you. Get over it?
This kind of backwards thinking is not only what will ruin EVE and it's true potential, but it's the same type of thinking that has lead to a stagnation in this entire market. Progress is a good thing, moving things into new unexplored ground is a good thing, letting things wither away and die is not.
The mistake you are making is assuming that I personally am some how anti Incarna and don't want to see in station avatars, you pretty much based you're whole post on that assumption and accuse me of "wanting to see the game stagnate".
Well I am not anti Incarna, I want to be able to play a good quality, functional and immersive in station avatar experiance but these captains quarters are none of that, there is nothing to do in the CQ apart from walking around.
CCP didnt even put any effort into the item shop and provided an extremely limited selection. Why cant I change what is displayed on my screen? why cant I redecorate them or have a massive selection of outfits? The captains quarters as they are now are utterly useless, its just an empty room with almost nothing to interact with.
By removing the hangers CCP took functionalty away yet they replaced it with nothing. We have heard how CCP claim they will add more features in time but iterating on existing content isnt exactly CCPs strong point so I wont hold my breath.
The performance issues do exist, like you I havnt had much problems either but there are to many complaints about it to brush it off as whining and the complaints started before CQ even got onto SiSi.
So while I am not anti Incarna I am anti this shovelware they have forced on us, CCP say more will be added but why introduce it in such a poor state? why take away something that works and give us something that not only fails to work properly but would have nothing to do in it even if it worked 100% as intended?
So while you accuse me of backwards thinking the truth is very differant, I am simply not willing to accept a half baked product that was released with the company serving up a stinking pile of poop and thought "ahh well thats good enough"
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
This is absurd. I understand clearly about the controversy involving MT's, but throwing tantrums about not having "spinning ships?" If those brats, and the term fits the definition, want unimmersive boring space games, they should go play 'Dark Orbit' or some FB knockoff version.
The idea that CCP is even considering re-adding the spinning ships kiddie version has me wanting to cancel personally. I enjoy games that evolve with technology and have immersion, not boring kiddie games trying to pretend to be a space mmo.
Freaking out over spinning ships seems silly to me as well, but I also think CCP went about Incarna the entirely wrong way. They want to force players to play the game a certian way, so they are forcing people to adopt Incarna, whether they want to or not.
What CCP could have done was set the game up so that it can be played as a duality: You could be the hardcore pod pilot and never, ever leave your ship, or you could do the opposite and never step foot on a ship you are in command of. Most people would play somehwre between the two extremes, but by forcing people to play a certian way, CCP is taking away choices as to how people want to play the game. If this game is supposed to be a huge sandbox, then ashouldn't more options be good?
That attitude of the "Greed is Good" newletter as well as CCP's presidet's e-mail "who cares what the players say, pay atrention to what they do," tells me that CCP are looking to monetize the crap out of EVE. It's only player resistence that is preventing them from doing what they like.
You have to be naieve, or a HUGE CCP fanboy not to see this.
I didn't get the vibe of naiveness in what they said, just a support of the plans CCP has in store for EVE. While you're thinking about your wallet, that person may be thinking about EVE's future and how monetization could futher it along. Everyone is entitled to their own stand, they don't have to follow yours.
Secondly how many times do people have to say or CCP, that newsletter could mean a great many things or nothing at all, it doesn't exactly mean CCP is actually greedy, it's the views of many different members of their team, not some standard set by those in charge.
What's wrong with being more concerned about what people do rather than say? Actions speak a million words, where as words can be meaningless, actions rarely are.
Just looks like you want to drag this drama along whether it has merits or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The mistake you are making is assuming that I personally am some how anti Incarna and don't want to see in station avatars, you pretty much based you're whole post on that assumption and accuse me of "wanting to see the game stagnate".
Well I am not anti Incarna, I want to be able to play a good quality, functional and immersive in station avatar experiance but these captains quarters are none of that, there is nothing to do in the CQ apart from walking around.
CCP didnt even put any effort into the item shop and provided an extremely limited selection. Why cant I change what is displayed on my screen? why cant I redecorate them or have a massive selection of outfits? The captains quarters as they are now are utterly useless, its just an empty room with almost nothing to interact with.
By removing the hangers CCP took functionalty away yet they replaced it with nothing. We have heard how CCP claim they will add more features in time but iterating on existing content isnt exactly CCPs strong point so I wont hold my breath.
The performance issues do exist, like you I havnt had much problems either but there are to many complaints about it to brush it off as whining and the complaints started before CQ even got onto SiSi.
So while I am not anti Incarna I am anti this shovelware they have forced on us, CCP say more will be added but why introduce it in such a poor state? why take away something that works and give us something that not only fails to work properly but would have nothing to do in it even if it worked 100% as intended?
So while you accuse me of backwards thinking the truth is very differant, I am simply not willing to accept a half baked product that was released with the company serving up a stinking pile of poop and thought "ahh well thats good enough"
I agree there's not much to it right now, but i also understand CCP's explanation in why and how they are rolling these features out. This just laid the ground work, it is possible they also want to see it in a live environment as they string updates along, to further gauge player reaction. Rather than throw it all at them in one fell swoop. You also have to consider that they have said this system isn't exactly compatible with the EVE that exists today, with that in mind is it not understandable they want to take a slow approach in how they release these features?
If I misjudged your statements I apologize, while you have some decent concerns and some of it is understandable a lot of it just seemed rather nit picky (for lack of a better term). My point however is that in large part EVE is still EVE, minus the CQ functionality of stations. Could it be better, sure, is it as bad as you make it sound, not in my opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I still think a cash shop is a HUGE mistake for a game like EVE, I also still think it is very greedy of CCP to expect people to pay a subscription price as well as have a cash shop.
I'm not going to support EVE until one of two things happens: A) EVE goes free to play. This is the best way to prevent double dipping into the players' wallets like they are set on doing now. A "freemium" model might be the best bet here. Get rid of the cash shop. It seems that CCP is hell bent on ruining their own game with greed and they won't get rid of the cash shop. This is just such a big mistake, especially for a game like EVE, but their greed has CCP by the balls.
As long as they stick to fluff items like they've promised I really don't see an issue with it. News flash: You don't need the Monocle or Quafe tee-shirt to play EVE you know.
MT in one form or another is taking over the genre... if you don't like it I suggest finding a different type of game to play.
Bren
Most games that go down the RMT route nowadays eventually start using the free to play, or "freemium," monetization model. No matter how you look at it, the cash shop in EVE is the developers using money from subscriptions to make items to sell to those paying subscriptions. They are double dipping, pure and simple. CCP has got aboard the greed train and EVE is now in the same "not worth your money" category as Star Trek Online.
As I said before, you in no way NEED the Monocle or the Quafe tee-shirt to play EVE nor are you in anyway REQUIRED to buy anything from the NeX to be competitive in the game. Not now or in the forseeable future. The NeX is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL CONTENT! The only way CCP is double dipping as you say is if the any given individual player CHOOSES to take part in that optional content. Your agrument would only have merit if these changes were being forced on anyone which they aren't(as they would if P2W was introduced through the NeX). Your argument has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese.
Bren
(Note: Certain parts of this post have been highlighted for the reading comprehentionally impared.)
Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.
Smart version: The community freakout actually caused CCP to back-peddle faster than a guy finding out his girlfriend was actually a man, baby.
Honestly, did they need to fly out four people to Iceland to find out that players wanted assurance there would be no non-vanity items?
Gratz to Eve'rs, and I really mean that. But you guys haven't won, they are just bidding their time. I know you guys weren't just afraid of what was going to happen out of nothing. It was the feeling you got from their actions that caused suspicions right?
Unfortunately, nitwits (cough) that play don't even know what you've done for them, even after seeing the result.
Exactly my thought +1
If the whole community would have acted like sheep in this process then things might have turned out differently.
~Bravo to the rebels~
CCP had always said they wouldn't be adding gold ammo, ships or anything that would alter game play. In the end it came down to a lot of people jumping the gun, because of an internal memo throwing ideas around. So in other words they should have trusted them to do the right thing from the very beginning.
The ideas they were throwing around had already been amicably resolved between the company and it's subscribers. It wasn't something trivial that they were throwing around either; they were discussing a topic that was vehemently rejected by a large portion of the playerbase each time CCP tried to inject it into EVE online.
Trust them to do the right thing? CCP itself recognizes that CCP alone is incapable of discerning what's vanity and what isn't since all items to be introduced into the shop from now on require the CSM seal of approval.
Yes and Yes, but they have admitted they screwed up and rolled the NeX out to hastily and didn't put any affordable items in(for much lower prices). Those will be coming in the near future to be outline in a new dev blog soon.
So yay on the no pay to win issue --- but, I still think the micro transaction prices are complete and utter BS in the fact that it eliminates a player crafted market for clothing if that was ever going to be considered. And the prices are complete and utter BS. I still feel no ground was gained here. Am I the only one who can't see the gloss over here? And this is not meant to offend anyone who posted before me on this subject. It is entirely my observation.
You know thinking about this- how am I going to own a cantina- will that be a micro transaction?
Everytime I want to play this "sec wars" which likely got aced- is that a fee as well?
So yay on the no pay to win issue --- but, I still think the micro transaction prices are complete and utter BS in the fact that it eliminates a player crafted market for clothing if that was ever going to be considered. And the prices are complete and utter BS. I still feel no ground was gained here. Am I the only one who can't see the gloss over here? And this is not meant to offend anyone who posted before me on this subject. It is entirely my observation.
If CCP are stupid enough to keep those kinds of prices more fool them to be perfectly honest, they are hurting themselves. Just imagine how many monocles they might have sold if they are cost the equivilent of $2-3 each and trousers etc costing $1-2, and imagine they had a large virtual catalogue with loads of stuff to choose from.
I bet CCP would have chalked up $500,000 in sales in the first few days as almost everyone would have bought at least one item and loads of people would have bought a complete outfit. People allways seem willing to drop small amounts of money into item shops but the stupidly high cost and limited selection instantly put people off.
Thier greed has cost them a lot.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
So yay on the no pay to win issue --- but, I still think the micro transaction prices are complete and utter BS in the fact that it eliminates a player crafted market for clothing if that was ever going to be considered. And the prices are complete and utter BS. I still feel no ground was gained here. Am I the only one who can't see the gloss over here? And this is not meant to offend anyone who posted before me on this subject. It is entirely my observation.
If CCP are stupid enough to keep those kinds of prices more fool them to be perfectly honest, they are hurting themselves. Just imagine how many monocles they might have sold if they are cost the equivilent of $2-3 each and trousers etc costing $1-2, and imagine they had a large virtual catalogue with loads of stuff to choose from.
I bet CCP would have chalked up $500,000 in sales in the first few days as almost everyone would have bought at least one item and loads of people would have bought a complete outfit. People allways seem willing to drop small amounts of money into item shops but the stupidly high cost and limited selection instantly put people off.
Thier greed has cost them a lot.
I have to agree 100% with you and you make a fantastic point that CCP missed. They need to lower the prices to what you stated. And I see no details yet that indicates anything has changed. So with that in mind my 4 accounts are still canceled until I see proof that we actually have a change here with whats been implemented so with that note I will wait and see.
I used to be a supporter of Incarna but now that its a cash shop instead of gameplay...what an idiot I was to have supported it. I would rather see the first video of atmospheric flight implemented in the game from the very first fan fest than this..stuff
So yay on the no pay to win issue --- but, I still think the micro transaction prices are complete and utter BS in the fact that it eliminates a player crafted market for clothing if that was ever going to be considered. And the prices are complete and utter BS. I still feel no ground was gained here. Am I the only one who can't see the gloss over here? And this is not meant to offend anyone who posted before me on this subject. It is entirely my observation.
If CCP are stupid enough to keep those kinds of prices more fool them to be perfectly honest, they are hurting themselves. Just imagine how many monocles they might have sold if they are cost the equivilent of $2-3 each and trousers etc costing $1-2, and imagine they had a large virtual catalogue with loads of stuff to choose from.
I bet CCP would have chalked up $500,000 in sales in the first few days as almost everyone would have bought at least one item and loads of people would have bought a complete outfit. People allways seem willing to drop small amounts of money into item shops but the stupidly high cost and limited selection instantly put people off.
Thier greed has cost them a lot.
I have to agree 100% with you and you make a fantastic point that CCP missed. They need to lower the prices to what you stated. And I see no details yet that indicates anything has changed. So with that in mind my 4 accounts are still canceled until I see proof that we actually have a change here with whats been implemented so with that note I will wait and see.
I used to be a supporter of Incarna but now that its a cash shop instead of gameplay...what an idiot I was to have supported it. I would rather see the first video of atmospheric flight implemented in the game from the very first fan fest than this..stuff
You won't see prices drop on anything that is already in the NeX as it would be seriously unfair to those that have already made purchases. What you will see in the near future as I already stated is a lot more reasonably priced items. This is the best they can do at this point for obvious reasons.
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared game destroying' virtual goods or services. ..."
To the Members of the CSM: You were lied to. That "memo" was much more than a memo, it was a plan. There definitely were plans for game-breaking items to be sold in the cash shop (items that I consider game-breaking). Just because CCP has canceled those plans for now doesn't mean those plans won't be brought back to life someday. CCP has pulled the wool over your eyes.
I now have confirmation that I personally can no longer trust CCP.
To CCP: You were the last Developer Team I actually trusted ... I trusted that you still gave a damn about the Players a little bit. Not anymore. What a shame.
Originally posted by mmoluva I started watching the video link and didn't understand what I was watching. Even after watching for a while my brain wouldn't allow me to accept what these two people were actually discussing. This was the most embarrassing mmo video I have ever seen. The player talking to someone at the actual game company of the game he plays? Absolutely mind blowing that someone at this company crunched the numbers so minutely to figure out how many insignificant players like this random player existed, and then to know that if they watch these players mouths move up and down for a while that their game would do even better is incredible. The insignificant player representative should concentrate on progressing his real life instead of flying to game companies and wasting his time telling them things they really don't care about at all. How could anyone watching this video not be embarrassed to the point of turning it off well before finish? I am downloading this game and will try it for the first time tonight. If a company operates to this extent I will defenitely support them.
People will think they are getting a fair 'representation' because they 'elected' those few players for Mayor or union rep.
CCP knows that, that's why they flew them in. Companies don't pay for free stuff unless they get the better end of it, in this case free publicity that 'we care'.
I have a suspicion they'll just tack on little surprise costs here and there that don't mean much to individuals but when you count them across the board they add up.
Kind of how a penny means nothing to you, but if you collect 300,000 pennies from individuals.. that's pretty good.
Edit: Did that moron really say he wished he didn't have to take an all expense paid trip overseas to that company?
So yay on the no pay to win issue --- but, I still think the micro transaction prices are complete and utter BS in the fact that it eliminates a player crafted market for clothing if that was ever going to be considered. And the prices are complete and utter BS. I still feel no ground was gained here. Am I the only one who can't see the gloss over here? And this is not meant to offend anyone who posted before me on this subject. It is entirely my observation.
If CCP are stupid enough to keep those kinds of prices more fool them to be perfectly honest, they are hurting themselves. Just imagine how many monocles they might have sold if they are cost the equivilent of $2-3 each and trousers etc costing $1-2, and imagine they had a large virtual catalogue with loads of stuff to choose from.
I bet CCP would have chalked up $500,000 in sales in the first few days as almost everyone would have bought at least one item and loads of people would have bought a complete outfit. People allways seem willing to drop small amounts of money into item shops but the stupidly high cost and limited selection instantly put people off.
Thier greed has cost them a lot.
I have to agree 100% with you and you make a fantastic point that CCP missed. They need to lower the prices to what you stated. And I see no details yet that indicates anything has changed. So with that in mind my 4 accounts are still canceled until I see proof that we actually have a change here with whats been implemented so with that note I will wait and see.
I used to be a supporter of Incarna but now that its a cash shop instead of gameplay...what an idiot I was to have supported it. I would rather see the first video of atmospheric flight implemented in the game from the very first fan fest than this..stuff
You won't see prices drop on anything that is already in the NeX as it would be seriously unfair to those that have already made purchases. What you will see in the near future as I already stated is a lot more reasonably priced items. This is the best they can do at this point for obvious reasons.
Bren
CCP could reimburse any Aurum to the players that bought them directly from the NeX store and then re price them more sensibly. They would rake more cash in from the players who would buy the cheaper items than lost in reimbursement.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ‘gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ‘game destroying' virtual goods or services. ..."
To the Members of the CSM: You were lied to. That "memo" was much more than a memo, it was a plan. There definitely were plans for game-breaking items to be sold in the cash shop (items that I consider game-breaking). Just because CCP has canceled those plans for now doesn't mean those plans won't be brought back to life someday. CCP has pulled the wool over your eyes.
I now have confirmation that I personally can no longer trust CCP.
To CCP: You were the last Developer Team I actually trusted ... I trusted that you still gave a damn about the Players a little bit. Not anymore. What a shame.
Think about that CCP.
For me personally it has never been about trust but maybe more like respect. The issue I personally have with MT in P2P games is that they are not required in all cases to keep the game alive and well however, they always crawl in because companies are all about making money. Developers then take your money and release items you will most likely never touch without spending extra cash and think that it's ok... don't buy it if you don't want it.... ok can you lower my sub fee since I'm not interested in your development of fluff and rainbow coloured battleships? No, you must keep paying your normal sub.
In EVE it was much more disturbing... In EVE, the market for the most part makes sense but now a pair of boots will cost you about as much ISK as buying a T2 battleship? What the hell did they put in those boots! It just adds this nasty feel that I can't really ever see myself getting used to and just ignoring.
As for the quote.... They won't sell better ships but I can see them selling skins for ships or dyes maybe. Want a cooler looking Drake? Sure thing just give me some extra cash and dont worry it will only cost you half as much as the 60 dollar monocle.
In all honesty if companies do MT they might as well make it Pay2Win because what they are asking is quite ridiculous.
Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.
Smart version: The community freakout actually caused CCP to back-peddle faster than a guy finding out his girlfriend was actually a man, baby.
Honestly, did they need to fly out four people to Iceland to find out that players wanted assurance there would be no non-vanity items?
Gratz to Eve'rs, and I really mean that. But you guys haven't won, they are just bidding their time. I know you guys weren't just afraid of what was going to happen out of nothing. It was the feeling you got from their actions that caused suspicions right?
Unfortunately, nitwits (cough) that play don't even know what you've done for them, even after seeing the result.
Most of the so called community doesn't even pay a subscription. It's time to get off that Pony and quit looking at it as though it's a high horse.
Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.
Smart version: The community freakout actually caused CCP to back-peddle faster than a guy finding out his girlfriend was actually a man, baby.
Honestly, did they need to fly out four people to Iceland to find out that players wanted assurance there would be no non-vanity items?
Gratz to Eve'rs, and I really mean that. But you guys haven't won, they are just bidding their time. I know you guys weren't just afraid of what was going to happen out of nothing. It was the feeling you got from their actions that caused suspicions right?
Unfortunately, nitwits (cough) that play don't even know what you've done for them, even after seeing the result.
Most of the so called community doesn't even pay a subscription. It's time to get off that Pony and quit looking at it as though it's a high horse.
I doubt that most players pay via PLEX at all, supply of newly created PLEX exceeds the rate at which they are being consumed by being applied as game time causing a steady growth of the amount of PLEX that are sitting in hangers and on the markets.
So there are more people in game selling PLEX for ISK than there are players using ISK to create their game time.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Originally posted by GarkanJust imagine how many monocles they might have sold if they are cost the equivilent of $2-3 each and trousers etc costing $1-2, and imagine they had a large virtual catalogue with loads of stuff to choose from.
Just imagine instead of selling 10 items for 7 USD, they can just sell 1 for 70 USD.
Same profit, just less people around wearing that particular item.
Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.
I expected this to be the outcome. But it might not have been the outcome if not the freaks had raised the crusade banner of death on the subject.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
That was the whole point. Sitting at idle (as many mmo'ers love to do) would have been a green light for CCP. We really will never know what the actual truth was with respect to CCP's plans for the cash shop. It could be just as they say, or it could have been much worse than any of us could imagine.
Also, Teb: simple name calling? Try making a contribution to the thread instead of dropping childlike insults.
The relase of the internal document. Deliberate to see the reaction, to see how far they can go.
Now, they said it like it was, an internal document meant for discussion, they said they will only sell vanity items in the NeX... they are not more stupid than that they could have said that early on. This even convinced people that this NeX thing is nothing new really, if you would have had "gold-ammo" as for some people EVE-O is already p2w.
Now they now that, at least at the moment, that nonvanity items is a nono... how will that look in 1½ years, will CCP have been able to stretch the limit in the NeX.
As another topic here, people got butthurt over this internal document, butthurt over elmars email, cried rivers over the overpriced monocle. CCP have already succeded in raising the bar of acceptance for items in the NeX.
Comments
Most games that go down the RMT route nowadays eventually start using the free to play, or "freemium," monetization model. No matter how you look at it, the cash shop in EVE is the developers using money from subscriptions to make items to sell to those paying subscriptions. They are double dipping, pure and simple. CCP has got aboard the greed train and EVE is now in the same "not worth your money" category as Star Trek Online.
That attitude of the "Greed is Good" newletter as well as CCP's presidet's e-mail "who cares what the players say, pay atrention to what they do," tells me that CCP are looking to monetize the crap out of EVE. It's only player resistence that is preventing them from doing what they like.
You have to be naieve, or a HUGE CCP fanboy not to see this.
It's nice to see people being grateful towards CSM (or whatever it's called). They aren't paid to do this (are they?), and they spent alot of time and energy on this game. However, I'd like to express my gratitude towards CCP as well - even though I dont play EVE. CSM could easy just be some glorious front figure that could just be set aside when push comes to shove. CCP has that power. Yet, they showed humility and respect for the role of CSM, and that is both wise and nice to see. The video seemed almost to be "hosted" by the CSM - it looked like he ran the show. That was very interesting and a little bit awkward in my opinion - but in a good way. It portrayed CCP in a more vulnerable, personal way - again, I think that shows strenght and wisdom.
The mistake you are making is assuming that I personally am some how anti Incarna and don't want to see in station avatars, you pretty much based you're whole post on that assumption and accuse me of "wanting to see the game stagnate".
Well I am not anti Incarna, I want to be able to play a good quality, functional and immersive in station avatar experiance but these captains quarters are none of that, there is nothing to do in the CQ apart from walking around.
CCP didnt even put any effort into the item shop and provided an extremely limited selection. Why cant I change what is displayed on my screen? why cant I redecorate them or have a massive selection of outfits? The captains quarters as they are now are utterly useless, its just an empty room with almost nothing to interact with.
By removing the hangers CCP took functionalty away yet they replaced it with nothing. We have heard how CCP claim they will add more features in time but iterating on existing content isnt exactly CCPs strong point so I wont hold my breath.
The performance issues do exist, like you I havnt had much problems either but there are to many complaints about it to brush it off as whining and the complaints started before CQ even got onto SiSi.
So while I am not anti Incarna I am anti this shovelware they have forced on us, CCP say more will be added but why introduce it in such a poor state? why take away something that works and give us something that not only fails to work properly but would have nothing to do in it even if it worked 100% as intended?
So while you accuse me of backwards thinking the truth is very differant, I am simply not willing to accept a half baked product that was released with the company serving up a stinking pile of poop and thought "ahh well thats good enough"
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Freaking out over spinning ships seems silly to me as well, but I also think CCP went about Incarna the entirely wrong way. They want to force players to play the game a certian way, so they are forcing people to adopt Incarna, whether they want to or not.
What CCP could have done was set the game up so that it can be played as a duality: You could be the hardcore pod pilot and never, ever leave your ship, or you could do the opposite and never step foot on a ship you are in command of. Most people would play somehwre between the two extremes, but by forcing people to play a certian way, CCP is taking away choices as to how people want to play the game. If this game is supposed to be a huge sandbox, then ashouldn't more options be good?
I didn't get the vibe of naiveness in what they said, just a support of the plans CCP has in store for EVE. While you're thinking about your wallet, that person may be thinking about EVE's future and how monetization could futher it along. Everyone is entitled to their own stand, they don't have to follow yours.
Secondly how many times do people have to say or CCP, that newsletter could mean a great many things or nothing at all, it doesn't exactly mean CCP is actually greedy, it's the views of many different members of their team, not some standard set by those in charge.
What's wrong with being more concerned about what people do rather than say? Actions speak a million words, where as words can be meaningless, actions rarely are.
Just looks like you want to drag this drama along whether it has merits or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree there's not much to it right now, but i also understand CCP's explanation in why and how they are rolling these features out. This just laid the ground work, it is possible they also want to see it in a live environment as they string updates along, to further gauge player reaction. Rather than throw it all at them in one fell swoop. You also have to consider that they have said this system isn't exactly compatible with the EVE that exists today, with that in mind is it not understandable they want to take a slow approach in how they release these features?
If I misjudged your statements I apologize, while you have some decent concerns and some of it is understandable a lot of it just seemed rather nit picky (for lack of a better term). My point however is that in large part EVE is still EVE, minus the CQ functionality of stations. Could it be better, sure, is it as bad as you make it sound, not in my opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As I said before, you in no way NEED the Monocle or the Quafe tee-shirt to play EVE nor are you in anyway REQUIRED to buy anything from the NeX to be competitive in the game. Not now or in the forseeable future. The NeX is COMPLETELY OPTIONAL CONTENT! The only way CCP is double dipping as you say is if the any given individual player CHOOSES to take part in that optional content. Your agrument would only have merit if these changes were being forced on anyone which they aren't(as they would if P2W was introduced through the NeX). Your argument has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese.
Bren
(Note: Certain parts of this post have been highlighted for the reading comprehentionally impared.)
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
So let me make sure the facts are straight here:
1.) No gold ships or ammo?
2.) Prices in the NEX shop stay the same?
The ideas they were throwing around had already been amicably resolved between the company and it's subscribers. It wasn't something trivial that they were throwing around either; they were discussing a topic that was vehemently rejected by a large portion of the playerbase each time CCP tried to inject it into EVE online.
Trust them to do the right thing? CCP itself recognizes that CCP alone is incapable of discerning what's vanity and what isn't since all items to be introduced into the shop from now on require the CSM seal of approval.
~Bravo to the rebels~ indeed
Yes and Yes, but they have admitted they screwed up and rolled the NeX out to hastily and didn't put any affordable items in(for much lower prices). Those will be coming in the near future to be outline in a new dev blog soon.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
All boils down to , we have no "plans" to blah blah blah. Plans change people:)
Exactly as i said days ago, you will not get a flat out statement that they never will do something:) They are not going to tie their hands.
The shop is there to stay, and if EVE (as all games do) starts to make less cash for CCP they will do whatever they think will make them cash.
They are pretty good at finessing their players:) got to give them that.
So yay on the no pay to win issue --- but, I still think the micro transaction prices are complete and utter BS in the fact that it eliminates a player crafted market for clothing if that was ever going to be considered. And the prices are complete and utter BS. I still feel no ground was gained here. Am I the only one who can't see the gloss over here? And this is not meant to offend anyone who posted before me on this subject. It is entirely my observation.
You know thinking about this- how am I going to own a cantina- will that be a micro transaction?
Everytime I want to play this "sec wars" which likely got aced- is that a fee as well?
If CCP are stupid enough to keep those kinds of prices more fool them to be perfectly honest, they are hurting themselves. Just imagine how many monocles they might have sold if they are cost the equivilent of $2-3 each and trousers etc costing $1-2, and imagine they had a large virtual catalogue with loads of stuff to choose from.
I bet CCP would have chalked up $500,000 in sales in the first few days as almost everyone would have bought at least one item and loads of people would have bought a complete outfit. People allways seem willing to drop small amounts of money into item shops but the stupidly high cost and limited selection instantly put people off.
Thier greed has cost them a lot.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I have to agree 100% with you and you make a fantastic point that CCP missed. They need to lower the prices to what you stated. And I see no details yet that indicates anything has changed. So with that in mind my 4 accounts are still canceled until I see proof that we actually have a change here with whats been implemented so with that note I will wait and see.
I used to be a supporter of Incarna but now that its a cash shop instead of gameplay...what an idiot I was to have supported it. I would rather see the first video of atmospheric flight implemented in the game from the very first fan fest than this..stuff
You won't see prices drop on anything that is already in the NeX as it would be seriously unfair to those that have already made purchases. What you will see in the near future as I already stated is a lot more reasonably priced items. This is the best they can do at this point for obvious reasons.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
The following is my opinion, not an attack...
From the CSM's response...
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for gold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared game destroying' virtual goods or services. ..."
To the Members of the CSM: You were lied to. That "memo" was much more than a memo, it was a plan. There definitely were plans for game-breaking items to be sold in the cash shop (items that I consider game-breaking). Just because CCP has canceled those plans for now doesn't mean those plans won't be brought back to life someday. CCP has pulled the wool over your eyes.
I now have confirmation that I personally can no longer trust CCP.
To CCP: You were the last Developer Team I actually trusted ... I trusted that you still gave a damn about the Players a little bit. Not anymore. What a shame.
Think about that CCP.
CCP knows that, that's why they flew them in. Companies don't pay for free stuff unless they get the better end of it, in this case free publicity that 'we care'.
I have a suspicion they'll just tack on little surprise costs here and there that don't mean much to individuals but when you count them across the board they add up.
Kind of how a penny means nothing to you, but if you collect 300,000 pennies from individuals.. that's pretty good.
Edit: Did that moron really say he wished he didn't have to take an all expense paid trip overseas to that company?
"TO MICHAEL!"
You can resub to EvE if you really want, no need to wait.
"TO MICHAEL!"
CCP could reimburse any Aurum to the players that bought them directly from the NeX store and then re price them more sensibly. They would rake more cash in from the players who would buy the cheaper items than lost in reimbursement.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
For me personally it has never been about trust but maybe more like respect. The issue I personally have with MT in P2P games is that they are not required in all cases to keep the game alive and well however, they always crawl in because companies are all about making money. Developers then take your money and release items you will most likely never touch without spending extra cash and think that it's ok... don't buy it if you don't want it.... ok can you lower my sub fee since I'm not interested in your development of fluff and rainbow coloured battleships? No, you must keep paying your normal sub.
In EVE it was much more disturbing... In EVE, the market for the most part makes sense but now a pair of boots will cost you about as much ISK as buying a T2 battleship? What the hell did they put in those boots! It just adds this nasty feel that I can't really ever see myself getting used to and just ignoring.
As for the quote.... They won't sell better ships but I can see them selling skins for ships or dyes maybe. Want a cooler looking Drake? Sure thing just give me some extra cash and dont worry it will only cost you half as much as the 60 dollar monocle.
In all honesty if companies do MT they might as well make it Pay2Win because what they are asking is quite ridiculous.
Buy the Box.
Pay your sub.
Free updates/expansions.
No MT.
EVE almost had it but it's just time to move on.
Most of the so called community doesn't even pay a subscription. It's time to get off that Pony and quit looking at it as though it's a high horse.
I doubt that most players pay via PLEX at all, supply of newly created PLEX exceeds the rate at which they are being consumed by being applied as game time causing a steady growth of the amount of PLEX that are sitting in hangers and on the markets.
So there are more people in game selling PLEX for ISK than there are players using ISK to create their game time.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Just imagine instead of selling 10 items for 7 USD, they can just sell 1 for 70 USD.
Same profit, just less people around wearing that particular item.
NEX prices are fine.
The relase of the internal document. Deliberate to see the reaction, to see how far they can go.
Now, they said it like it was, an internal document meant for discussion, they said they will only sell vanity items in the NeX... they are not more stupid than that they could have said that early on. This even convinced people that this NeX thing is nothing new really, if you would have had "gold-ammo" as for some people EVE-O is already p2w.
Now they now that, at least at the moment, that nonvanity items is a nono... how will that look in 1½ years, will CCP have been able to stretch the limit in the NeX.
As another topic here, people got butthurt over this internal document, butthurt over elmars email, cried rivers over the overpriced monocle. CCP have already succeded in raising the bar of acceptance for items in the NeX.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"