Depends on what kind of raiding , what game etc. I mean WoW's raids have gone through many stages. You used to be able to Pug all of them, some require a large amount of tries and no lifing, others require massive amounts of gear farming that no one wants to do. Its all your preference in my opinion. I was never a huge hardcore raider but i do enjoy the occasional raid for some shiny gear, PvP will always dominate PVE in my eyes.
I might have my feelings hurt if I as a pvp'er didn't absolutely despise carebear gear heads.
this is one of the things that always confused me. if pvp is your game, why waste time in a RPG? FPS is a much more enjoyable platform for pvp... there is no gear grind. no lvl grind. just pure pvp...
Cause FPS combat always felt too simple, too twitch.
I might have my feelings hurt if I as a pvp'er didn't absolutely despise carebear gear heads.
this is one of the things that always confused me. if pvp is your game, why waste time in a RPG? FPS is a much more enjoyable platform for pvp... there is no gear grind. no lvl grind. just pure pvp...
For me, it used to be because MMOs were much deeper... Community, meaningful crafting, and RP opportunities as a few examples...
but as of late, it seems the line between FPS and MMOs are getting a little less defined, and I wonder myself why I don't just play FPS.. But then I get news of another game coming out with the dreaded "potential" so i hold out hope..
That's the thing. I never did much raiding in EQ, but I remember doing Nagefen and Vox as well as Saryn The Goddess of Torment from Planes of Power and a few other things here and there, yet I don't remember going into a single raid where I felt as if I personally had to memorize the fight mechanics before going in yet people always say EQ was so hard. WoW raiding seems to me as if it requires a lot more preparation.
EQ raids were more about knowing how to get the most out of your class and coordinating things like CH chains with others in the raid. WoW raids are more about memorizing a scripted event like Heigan. Having multiple versions of a raid makes it seem much easier as well. Most guilds practice in the easier 10-man versions before moving to 25 simply because it is easier to learn with fewer moving parts. EQ raids felt harder due to the large amounts of coordination required to orchestrate 12 6-man groups.
It's not "doesn't like raiding any more". It's "never did like raiding and still doesn't".
Having to schedule your life around a game is bad.
Needing to farm peculiar gear with no use outside of a particular raid is bad.
Having to do the same raid a bunch of times in a row in order to get up for the next is bad.
Being unable to do the content you want because you're waiting for a raid lockout to end is bad.
Having to worry about losing all of your progress if your guild breaks up is bad. Especially when game mechanics seem designed with the intent to create guild drama and try to break up your guild.
I'm not against playing a game with others, whether a few others or dozens of others. But I want to be able to log in when I want to, and then jump in and play. The reason solo content is popular is not so much that people want to solo, as that people don't want to deal with a bunch of other garbage instead of getting to play the game, and in many games, soloing is the only way to do that.
This sums it up for me. When I was 18 I could organise my life around gaming but now I have to organise my gaming around my life. I still play games just as much, just at different times of the day.
I am way more likely to stick with a game that I can enjoy and take part in everything it has to offer rather than a game where I have to be on at 7pm 4 nights a week in order to take part in the main part of the game.
This is the reason i stopped playing WoW. I still like the game, however 90% of guilds raid at a time when I just cannot be online so I finally just gave up, I cant make sure I am available to raid at specific times.
The first couple of MMOs I played never had raids and I enjoyed them a lot, there is no NEED to have raids at all, as long as the game has good content, community and is immersive people will keep coming back.
It's not "doesn't like raiding any more". It's "never did like raiding and still doesn't".
Having to schedule your life around a game is bad.
Needing to farm peculiar gear with no use outside of a particular raid is bad.
Having to do the same raid a bunch of times in a row in order to get up for the next is bad.
Being unable to do the content you want because you're waiting for a raid lockout to end is bad.
Having to worry about losing all of your progress if your guild breaks up is bad. Especially when game mechanics seem designed with the intent to create guild drama and try to break up your guild.
I'm not against playing a game with others, whether a few others or dozens of others. But I want to be able to log in when I want to, and then jump in and play. The reason solo content is popular is not so much that people want to solo, as that people don't want to deal with a bunch of other garbage instead of getting to play the game, and in many games, soloing is the only way to do that.
This sums it up for me. When I was 18 I could organise my life around gaming but now I have to organise my gaming around my life. I still play games just as much, just at different times of the day.
I am way more likely to stick with a game that I can enjoy and take part in everything it has to offer rather than a game where I have to be on at 7pm 4 nights a week in order to take part in the main part of the game.
This is the reason i stopped playing WoW. I still like the game, however 90% of guilds raid at a time when I just cannot be online so I finally just gave up, I cant make sure I am available to raid at specific times.
The first couple of MMOs I played never had raids and I enjoyed them a lot, there is no NEED to have raids at all, as long as the game has good content, community and is immersive people will keep coming back.
Well stated responses and I completely agree. In a gaming world where accessibility is key, current raids are anything but.
I would much prefer an investment into social end-game features or PVP features than a raid. Add gambling, darts, competitive elements. Add castle storming, jousting, melee battles, archery competitions, etc.
There is definitely a need for large-scale content to bring together comraderie and guild teams, but the mentality behind raids needs to change to make it something more players look forward to, not dread.
Even tho raids are as stupid as a goldfish, WoW abd Rift, probably two of the most popular MMO right now, proven raids are what the general crowd wants, and thats what they get. sucks to be us.
That isn't true, especially in the case of WoW, where the developers admitted that less than 20% of their player base participates in raiding content. That's a butt load of people who avoid it like the plague, yet enjoy all the other aspects of the game.
That isn't true, especially in the case of WoW, where the developers admitted that less than 20% of their player base participates in raiding content. That's a butt load of people who avoid it like the plague, yet enjoy all the other aspects of the game.
Yeah, but why is 50% of the endgame raiding then if only 20% enjoy it (the other 50% is battlegrounds and daily quests)?
They need to fix more alternatives to raiding. I have nothing against raids, but when the devs want me to spend forever doing just one thing it bores me.
I played EQ1 for 4 years and raided only once, the rest of the time was doing dungeons and rolling alts. WoW for 3 years, never did a single raid and kept busy with instances, PvP, crafting and alts. There are plenty of people who play raid centric games who either never participate in raiding or do it once and never do it again, but keep playing the non-raid parts of the game. So, just because WoW and EQ are popular doesn't even remotely prove that it's due to the raiding end game.
I love raiding. Raiding with buddies an interesting dungeon is the most fun thing to do in an MMORPG.
Sadly, it also takes up lots and lots of time, and unlike when you just play solo or someting, you are kinda required to show up. And also, finding a guild with nice people can be quite a task.
Its not raiding itself but what WoW made with raiding when they patterned it and mass produced them, now raiding passed from a epic PvE encounter which was nice to go sometimes to a simple way to climb to power to a greater, PvP, scheme of things, having to methodically run through them to be "good"
Im not a pve'er, actually the last thing I want to do at the endgame is PvE so I personally dont care for raiding, but raiding is not unpopular either, WoW is proof enough ( if you tell me that there is a huge amount of things to do other than doing runs/raids in WoW I will laugh and point at you, atleast 50% of the game is endgame PvE and then you have 30% for PvP activities(in which you need to do endgame PvE in most cases), 10% of crafting and 10% of questing/leveling up
"It has potential" -Second most used phrase on existence "It sucks" -Most used phrase on existence
Take the best most devleoped part of a MMO and don't allow 95% of the player base to experience it and you have your answer.
I have always wondered if the above is true. How much of a player base actually raids? It seems foolish from a development standpoint to spend time on creating something that only a small fraction of the player base will see.
I hate raiding with a passion. It is like herding cats. The bad part is there is nothing to do to advance your character once you reach max level in most games. That is the problem I ran into in Rift. I loved the trip to 50 but hated what I had to do once I got there.
Since Im casual now I could only grind for money/faction which also isnt fun. Unlike others I dont like running down collections and getting achievments. So what I guess Im getting at is I hate raiding but as far as endgame is concerned Im not sure what they could add to replace it.
My problem with raiding is that it requires too many players. I can't gather up my real life friends very easily to go and do a raid, and I will not group with others online. People have become too mean to group with in guilds or pick ups. Because they have a screen between you and them, they feel they can be rude and selfish and treat others like crap and get away with it, and they can.
So, I'm all in favor of no more raids in MMOs and keeping the grouping content (if there has to be any) to a smaller group.
My problem with raiding is that it requires too many players. I can't gather up my real life friends very easily to go and do a raid, and I will not group with others online. People have become too mean to group with in guilds or pick ups. Because they have a screen between you and them, they feel they can be rude and selfish and treat others like crap and get away with it, and they can. So, I'm all in favor of no more raids in MMOs and keeping the grouping content (if there has to be any) to a smaller group.
I know my opinion isn't held by many, but I actually preferred the old model of EQ style raids where the raid mobs weren't instanced and you raided when bosses were available. A lot of people say moving raids to instances made them more friendly for non-hardcore players because you didn't have to race other guilds for the same boss, but to me, the nice thing about non-instanced raids in EQ was that you rarely had a raid "schedule". Sure, you could schedule things like Plane of Fear, Hate, Growth, or ToV armor farming runs (no bosses involved), but for the most part, you raided when stuff was up. You rarely saw the situation where someone has to be on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday nights from 6-10 pm for raids, so you better be online during those times. Instead, you might be online one night, and a bunch of stuff is up, so your guild raids.
Likewise, I also preferred the huge raids of EQ. When you raid with a maximum of 72 people, you don't have "raid spots" because most guilds didn't fill up their raids in the first place. You didn't need to maintain 100% raid attendance or risk losing a raid spot. Sure, the most hardcore guilds had minimum attendance requirements or you got booted, but most people weren't in these guilds.
Finally, for the most part, EQ raids didn't have any of the crap you see in games like WoW or RIFT where everyone in the raid has to memorize a script and if they screw something up like not running away from the boss when they are supposed to, everyone wipes. EQ raids were hard because they required a large amount of people knowing how to play their class and work together as a cohesive unit, not because they required memorizing scripts and people yelling at eachother not to stand in the fire.
If raiding was as simple as one side with any of its member attacking another town and getting points and xp.
Then raiding would be nicer.
Also Guild Wars 2 will have raid events, but will not call them that and anyone on your side can join.
They are making it easier to simply join an ongoing battle without a need to pick up a huge party or make multiple parties to down a boss.
Keep them both, but do not make the boss items so much better that you have to be in a group to get an item remotely similar. (regular items with passive or active buffs)
It's pve, that's why. Once you do it, it get's repetitive. Plus, not sure about most people, but I myself roll with a small guild of 8-10 people, relying on 10-20 more random players is just not fun to us. We like to ninja afk alot due to families/RL, as I'm sure a lot of people do. Want people to be interested in raiding, make it like it used to be, needing tons of players to zerg down something, like the old Legion/SI raids in DAOC. Nowadays a raid is, get everyone into a big group and get coordinated, back then it was find every random person who wants in, some form groups some run solo or small man and just zerg the shit of the area.
everyone has said pretty much how i feel about it, but what the hey,
Its repetative, you have to run them 40+ times just to get a piece of armor, and thats not the only reason it sux, it sux because everyone will tell u according to your class where to stand, and what to do. ITs like there is only one way to do this raid if you dont want to wipe and here it is, do it the exact same way each and every time and thats it ! if u dont u dont get invited back.
please ... for one, im tired of T1,2,3,4,x,x,x,x,x, gear .. give me something interactive with the world and people in the world to do at end game not some instanced 35-40 person raid to do over and over again just so i can qualify for the next Tier raid etc etc , rince and repeat ....
Originally posted by MMOExposed I noticed the mmo community for some reason cheered Anet on, when they announced no Raid Dungeons in Guild Wars 2. Well I want to ask. Why is Raiding so unpopular now days to the MMORPG community?Isnt Raiding, a Massively Multiplayer element of PvE combat?Would you rather future MMO to be balanced for 1v1 PvE rather than 1v20+?I want to know why the community doesnt like Raiding any more.Note: Wasnt calling out Guild Wars 2, that was simply an example.
I have not read through the pages and pages of responses yet, so please excuse any duplicate points I may make
I don't know if raiding is "unpopular", as it goes on everyday in MMOs. The complaint about raiding I hear from folks (and one of my personal reasons) is the repetitiveness of raiding. Raiding a dungeon is cool the first few times. It is after the new, glossy, eyes-wide-open feeling that raiding becomes "unfun".
Another reason for me personally is the sheer size of raids. When the player count gets to 10 or more people, I cannot follow what is going on. I lose track of what is happening. I could (and do) make mistakes by not keeping my mind on the keyboard rotation, instead of watching what else is going on. Basically, it overloads my senses. Yes, I dislike large crowds in real life, too. lol
For me, 10 or fewer people in a party/raid is fine for me, but over that (25/40), and I get lost in the confusion. I also don't like doing the same thing over and over. I get bored easily On the other hand, I am not one who wants raids to go away, for I know plenty of people who enjoy them I cannot say I am jumping for joy with A-Net's announcement about GW2. It really does not factor into my enjoyment of a game.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I hate them because they are generally the same scripted fight over and over and over again. Once you have it on farm then what the hell is challenge and point? Now if the fight changed every single time to where it could never be on farm status and tatics were always having to change thats a different story.
Because as we all found out in WoW and to a lesser degree in other MMOs, most game designers have no clue as to what "fun" is and instead design such raids to keep you paying and playing in a carrot and stick approach, as opposed to just making the FREAKING GAME/RAID FUN ti keep subscribers.
Case in point, in WoW:
1) You take an hour organising a PUG raid after spamming trade chat for what seemed like an eternity, putting up with all the kiddies pottie talk and other brain sapping chatter, only to have players quit right before the Raid starts or 10 seconds into it....DOH!
2) Per above, you wipe.
3) Per above, if somehow you do finish it, you get jack squat as loot.
4) Oh yeah, and now yo uare locked out of the Raid so that people with no life cant farm it.
5) Per above, you are in a great guild, but the same crap above happens....DOH!
6) when all is said and done you just wasted several hours for nothing.
Why bother.....
Nobody with common sense pays continually for something they arent enjoying, or needing.
come on,,, that excuse gets old.
Damn you want the developers to do your brain decisions for you? Yet you complain about things getting dumb down?
lol,, now you see why. You dont have a brain for yourself, if you pay for something you dont like nor need.
Because as we all found out in WoW and to a lesser degree in other MMOs, most game designers have no clue as to what "fun" is and instead design such raids to keep you paying and playing in a carrot and stick approach, as opposed to just making the FREAKING GAME/RAID FUN ti keep subscribers.
Case in point, in WoW:
1) You take an hour organising a PUG raid after spamming trade chat for what seemed like an eternity, putting up with all the kiddies pottie talk and other brain sapping chatter, only to have players quit right before the Raid starts or 10 seconds into it....DOH!
2) Per above, you wipe.
3) Per above, if somehow you do finish it, you get jack squat as loot.
4) Oh yeah, and now yo uare locked out of the Raid so that people with no life cant farm it.
5) Per above, you are in a great guild, but the same crap above happens....DOH!
6) when all is said and done you just wasted several hours for nothing.
Why bother.....
Nobody with common sense pays continually for something they arent enjoying, or needing.
come on,,, that excuse gets old.
Damn you want the developers to do your brain decisions for you? Yet you complain about things getting dumb down?
lol,, now you see why. You dont have a brain for yourself, if you pay for something you dont like nor need.
I can definitely say I didn't really enjoy the 'game' of WoW for about 3-4 months before I quit.
Majority of my guild fell apart during the ICC era mainly because those who have been playing since vanilla was more interested in using WoW as a IM service like MSN. Get on vent and chat/socialize with some 'stuff' in-between which is what the 'raid' became.
After months of awful progression since no one really took the raids 'seriously', the guild members had a 'lets talk' as it were one night. Ended up going our separate ways after swapping email/IM/Contact info. Half of the guild just straight up quit the next day (around 15 people?).
I still convo the majority of them to this day after 10 months of quitting WoW (Having regular RL meetups help) and we probably will get together in SWTOR, at least 90% of us
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
1) Raiding requires the gathering of many people for them to be punctual and responsible. Age,mentality,language and educational level differences are serious obstacles for proper deployment of a raiding group of people. Thus when we make a quick and efficient group with strangers that ends up quite alright we consider ourselves extremely lucky.
2) Raiding in most games needs an extraordinary amount of time.Soloing doesn't. Many people don't have the luxury of staying in front of the pc screen for 2-4 hours. Some do (younger ones).
3) Reward is not guaranteed. Combine this with the fact that you might spend hours raiding get NOTHING in return.Even worse..a whole raid squad might not get any loot if the freeking boss drops loot from a class that is not invluded in the group
4) Most bosses need ventrilo/teamspeak in order to have a succesfull result .But some people:
a) Dont like to speak on vent,
b)Some don't have it installed and don't want/know how,
c)Those programmes are not your average easy-2-learn stuff, resulting into people yelling in your ears or whispering as if they are confessing their sins and most of them asking how this/where that/whats the password etc...(all that eats up lot of time-Thats why MOST aaa mmo SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN VOICE CHAT
5) Ninja looting is still actually allowed from most AAA mmo companies! Why? Because it reduces your chances of getting the loot you are hoping for.That makes you play more months, pay more money.
I would narrow it down to one point, all new MMO's cater for soloing and as a result there is a loss of community. With a good community people would happily raid.
The most popular games are based of raiding. What are you talking about?
Personally, I've never liked raiding. Its repetitive, and unadventurous.
Well I remember people cheered the fact that Anet doesnt want Raid Dungeons. Lot of people said they hated Raiding. Well why? Raiding fits the Massively Multiplayer element of PvE in MMORPG. Why is it so Unliked? Rather have 1v1 PvE or something?
While I can't speak for others, one of the reasons (among many, so very many... ^^) I dislike raiding is the extended focus required to do it well. Couple that with all of the various add ons and macro systems (you must be this 733t to play here...), and its just not an activity I really enjoy. Way too many of the raider types I've known have become obsessed with the various meters, to the point that they completely ignore tactical reality in the endless search to be #1 on the meter. That and the constant corrosive competition aspect (in what should be a team effort) add up to an activity I tend not to enjoy.
Comments
Depends on what kind of raiding , what game etc. I mean WoW's raids have gone through many stages. You used to be able to Pug all of them, some require a large amount of tries and no lifing, others require massive amounts of gear farming that no one wants to do. Its all your preference in my opinion. I was never a huge hardcore raider but i do enjoy the occasional raid for some shiny gear, PvP will always dominate PVE in my eyes.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Cause FPS combat always felt too simple, too twitch.
For me, it used to be because MMOs were much deeper... Community, meaningful crafting, and RP opportunities as a few examples...
but as of late, it seems the line between FPS and MMOs are getting a little less defined, and I wonder myself why I don't just play FPS.. But then I get news of another game coming out with the dreaded "potential" so i hold out hope..
EQ raids were more about knowing how to get the most out of your class and coordinating things like CH chains with others in the raid. WoW raids are more about memorizing a scripted event like Heigan. Having multiple versions of a raid makes it seem much easier as well. Most guilds practice in the easier 10-man versions before moving to 25 simply because it is easier to learn with fewer moving parts. EQ raids felt harder due to the large amounts of coordination required to orchestrate 12 6-man groups.
This sums it up for me. When I was 18 I could organise my life around gaming but now I have to organise my gaming around my life. I still play games just as much, just at different times of the day.
I am way more likely to stick with a game that I can enjoy and take part in everything it has to offer rather than a game where I have to be on at 7pm 4 nights a week in order to take part in the main part of the game.
This is the reason i stopped playing WoW. I still like the game, however 90% of guilds raid at a time when I just cannot be online so I finally just gave up, I cant make sure I am available to raid at specific times.
The first couple of MMOs I played never had raids and I enjoyed them a lot, there is no NEED to have raids at all, as long as the game has good content, community and is immersive people will keep coming back.
Well stated responses and I completely agree. In a gaming world where accessibility is key, current raids are anything but.
I would much prefer an investment into social end-game features or PVP features than a raid. Add gambling, darts, competitive elements. Add castle storming, jousting, melee battles, archery competitions, etc.
There is definitely a need for large-scale content to bring together comraderie and guild teams, but the mentality behind raids needs to change to make it something more players look forward to, not dread.
That isn't true, especially in the case of WoW, where the developers admitted that less than 20% of their player base participates in raiding content. That's a butt load of people who avoid it like the plague, yet enjoy all the other aspects of the game.
Yeah, but why is 50% of the endgame raiding then if only 20% enjoy it (the other 50% is battlegrounds and daily quests)?
They need to fix more alternatives to raiding. I have nothing against raids, but when the devs want me to spend forever doing just one thing it bores me.
I played EQ1 for 4 years and raided only once, the rest of the time was doing dungeons and rolling alts. WoW for 3 years, never did a single raid and kept busy with instances, PvP, crafting and alts. There are plenty of people who play raid centric games who either never participate in raiding or do it once and never do it again, but keep playing the non-raid parts of the game. So, just because WoW and EQ are popular doesn't even remotely prove that it's due to the raiding end game.
I love raiding. Raiding with buddies an interesting dungeon is the most fun thing to do in an MMORPG.
Sadly, it also takes up lots and lots of time, and unlike when you just play solo or someting, you are kinda required to show up. And also, finding a guild with nice people can be quite a task.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Its not raiding itself but what WoW made with raiding when they patterned it and mass produced them, now raiding passed from a epic PvE encounter which was nice to go sometimes to a simple way to climb to power to a greater, PvP, scheme of things, having to methodically run through them to be "good"
Im not a pve'er, actually the last thing I want to do at the endgame is PvE so I personally dont care for raiding, but raiding is not unpopular either, WoW is proof enough ( if you tell me that there is a huge amount of things to do other than doing runs/raids in WoW I will laugh and point at you, atleast 50% of the game is endgame PvE and then you have 30% for PvP activities(in which you need to do endgame PvE in most cases), 10% of crafting and 10% of questing/leveling up
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
I have always wondered if the above is true. How much of a player base actually raids? It seems foolish from a development standpoint to spend time on creating something that only a small fraction of the player base will see.
I hate raiding with a passion. It is like herding cats. The bad part is there is nothing to do to advance your character once you reach max level in most games. That is the problem I ran into in Rift. I loved the trip to 50 but hated what I had to do once I got there.
Since Im casual now I could only grind for money/faction which also isnt fun. Unlike others I dont like running down collections and getting achievments. So what I guess Im getting at is I hate raiding but as far as endgame is concerned Im not sure what they could add to replace it.
My problem with raiding is that it requires too many players. I can't gather up my real life friends very easily to go and do a raid, and I will not group with others online. People have become too mean to group with in guilds or pick ups. Because they have a screen between you and them, they feel they can be rude and selfish and treat others like crap and get away with it, and they can.
So, I'm all in favor of no more raids in MMOs and keeping the grouping content (if there has to be any) to a smaller group.
its a MMO, what you expect?Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I know my opinion isn't held by many, but I actually preferred the old model of EQ style raids where the raid mobs weren't instanced and you raided when bosses were available. A lot of people say moving raids to instances made them more friendly for non-hardcore players because you didn't have to race other guilds for the same boss, but to me, the nice thing about non-instanced raids in EQ was that you rarely had a raid "schedule". Sure, you could schedule things like Plane of Fear, Hate, Growth, or ToV armor farming runs (no bosses involved), but for the most part, you raided when stuff was up. You rarely saw the situation where someone has to be on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday nights from 6-10 pm for raids, so you better be online during those times. Instead, you might be online one night, and a bunch of stuff is up, so your guild raids.
Likewise, I also preferred the huge raids of EQ. When you raid with a maximum of 72 people, you don't have "raid spots" because most guilds didn't fill up their raids in the first place. You didn't need to maintain 100% raid attendance or risk losing a raid spot. Sure, the most hardcore guilds had minimum attendance requirements or you got booted, but most people weren't in these guilds.
Finally, for the most part, EQ raids didn't have any of the crap you see in games like WoW or RIFT where everyone in the raid has to memorize a script and if they screw something up like not running away from the boss when they are supposed to, everyone wipes. EQ raids were hard because they required a large amount of people knowing how to play their class and work together as a cohesive unit, not because they required memorizing scripts and people yelling at eachother not to stand in the fire.
If raiding was as simple as one side with any of its member attacking another town and getting points and xp.
Then raiding would be nicer.
Also Guild Wars 2 will have raid events, but will not call them that and anyone on your side can join.
They are making it easier to simply join an ongoing battle without a need to pick up a huge party or make multiple parties to down a boss.
Keep them both, but do not make the boss items so much better that you have to be in a group to get an item remotely similar. (regular items with passive or active buffs)
It's pve, that's why. Once you do it, it get's repetitive. Plus, not sure about most people, but I myself roll with a small guild of 8-10 people, relying on 10-20 more random players is just not fun to us. We like to ninja afk alot due to families/RL, as I'm sure a lot of people do. Want people to be interested in raiding, make it like it used to be, needing tons of players to zerg down something, like the old Legion/SI raids in DAOC. Nowadays a raid is, get everyone into a big group and get coordinated, back then it was find every random person who wants in, some form groups some run solo or small man and just zerg the shit of the area.
everyone has said pretty much how i feel about it, but what the hey,
Its repetative, you have to run them 40+ times just to get a piece of armor, and thats not the only reason it sux, it sux because everyone will tell u according to your class where to stand, and what to do. ITs like there is only one way to do this raid if you dont want to wipe and here it is, do it the exact same way each and every time and thats it ! if u dont u dont get invited back.
please ... for one, im tired of T1,2,3,4,x,x,x,x,x, gear .. give me something interactive with the world and people in the world to do at end game not some instanced 35-40 person raid to do over and over again just so i can qualify for the next Tier raid etc etc , rince and repeat ....
I don't know if raiding is "unpopular", as it goes on everyday in MMOs. The complaint about raiding I hear from folks (and one of my personal reasons) is the repetitiveness of raiding. Raiding a dungeon is cool the first few times. It is after the new, glossy, eyes-wide-open feeling that raiding becomes "unfun".
Another reason for me personally is the sheer size of raids. When the player count gets to 10 or more people, I cannot follow what is going on. I lose track of what is happening. I could (and do) make mistakes by not keeping my mind on the keyboard rotation, instead of watching what else is going on. Basically, it overloads my senses. Yes, I dislike large crowds in real life, too. lol
For me, 10 or fewer people in a party/raid is fine for me, but over that (25/40), and I get lost in the confusion. I also don't like doing the same thing over and over. I get bored easily
On the other hand, I am not one who wants raids to go away, for I know plenty of people who enjoy them 
I cannot say I am jumping for joy with A-Net's announcement about GW2. It really does not factor into my enjoyment of a game.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Move on to the next. ever think about that?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Nobody with common sense pays continually for something they arent enjoying, or needing.
come on,,, that excuse gets old.
Damn you want the developers to do your brain decisions for you? Yet you complain about things getting dumb down?
lol,, now you see why. You dont have a brain for yourself, if you pay for something you dont like nor need.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I can definitely say I didn't really enjoy the 'game' of WoW for about 3-4 months before I quit.
Majority of my guild fell apart during the ICC era mainly because those who have been playing since vanilla was more interested in using WoW as a IM service like MSN. Get on vent and chat/socialize with some 'stuff' in-between which is what the 'raid' became.
After months of awful progression since no one really took the raids 'seriously', the guild members had a 'lets talk' as it were one night. Ended up going our separate ways after swapping email/IM/Contact info. Half of the guild just straight up quit the next day (around 15 people?).
I still convo the majority of them to this day after 10 months of quitting WoW (Having regular RL meetups help) and we probably will get together in SWTOR, at least 90% of us
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Reason people do not go crazy about raiding are:
1) Raiding requires the gathering of many people for them to be punctual and responsible. Age,mentality,language and educational level differences are serious obstacles for proper deployment of a raiding group of people. Thus when we make a quick and efficient group with strangers that ends up quite alright we consider ourselves extremely lucky.
2) Raiding in most games needs an extraordinary amount of time.Soloing doesn't. Many people don't have the luxury of staying in front of the pc screen for 2-4 hours. Some do (younger ones).
3) Reward is not guaranteed. Combine this with the fact that you might spend hours raiding get NOTHING in return.Even worse..a whole raid squad might not get any loot if the freeking boss drops loot from a class that is not invluded in the group
4) Most bosses need ventrilo/teamspeak in order to have a succesfull result .But some people:
a) Dont like to speak on vent,
b)Some don't have it installed and don't want/know how,
c)Those programmes are not your average easy-2-learn stuff, resulting into people yelling in your ears or whispering as if they are confessing their sins and most of them asking how this/where that/whats the password etc...(all that eats up lot of time-Thats why MOST aaa mmo SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN VOICE CHAT
5) Ninja looting is still actually allowed from most AAA mmo companies! Why? Because it reduces your chances of getting the loot you are hoping for.That makes you play more months, pay more money.
I would narrow it down to one point, all new MMO's cater for soloing and as a result there is a loss of community. With a good community people would happily raid.
Chins
While I can't speak for others, one of the reasons (among many, so very many... ^^) I dislike raiding is the extended focus required to do it well. Couple that with all of the various add ons and macro systems (you must be this 733t to play here...), and its just not an activity I really enjoy. Way too many of the raider types I've known have become obsessed with the various meters, to the point that they completely ignore tactical reality in the endless search to be #1 on the meter. That and the constant corrosive competition aspect (in what should be a team effort) add up to an activity I tend not to enjoy.