Where does sound track fit in there? I usually don't pay too much attention to sound track, but I have to admit Jeremy Soule makes playing games seem so much more epic.
Though if I was making a list of five things, I'd probably start with something like 'three channel dye system where dyes work differently upon outfit parts depending upon the material it's made out of', but that makes me sound like I think MMORPG is code for 'Magical Barbie Dressup time'. Which may or may not be true.
Didn't really want to go further into this but for you Zeroxin, i will. I'm going to point out why i still think it looks similar to a public quest to me. I'm also not complaining about it i'm just making an observation on what i've seen. so i'm not sure why in the world you think i am. The only reason i picked out that point was because it offered a different view point i wanted to bring to light but even regardless of that one preview and whether they were right or wrong, sane or insane the above example pointed out what i said in clear print.
I'm going to first take a wack at the zombie invasion one as thats the quote i was talking about when i said they had to kill a percentage of zombies. I noted several areas in my rainbow color madness with my observations in the ( ) beside it.
I'm sorry that i'm pointing out in multiple threads that i feel the DE look like public quests, i to am also careful to point out that i don't think this is a bad thing. I just think it's a new way to doing public quests. I just take issue with people acting like this is something completely new when it sounds very much (minus one or two things) still sounds like a public quest. You can take it for me talking out of my butt about these things but it's my point of view. everytime it's pointed and explained to me as was done above with the zombe occasion it still comes off as a public quest. Again for the second time that isn't a bad thing but i'd kinda like to point at something and say thats a flower and not be called an idiot or whatever else because people try and claim it's a seashell or something.
If you said that all Bioware is doing is making questing more interested by making it more advanced by adding in branching quest and VO i'd completely agree with you because thats whats happening, i wouldn't go so far as to say it's something completely new and not a quest, because frankly it is a quest thats what it is. If people had just said, yeah it's a public quest in nature but they are doing a lot more to feel more fluid and natural and make more sense then i would have agreed and be done with it. But that didn't happen.
Maybe I didn't make it clear but my bone of contention was not whether you thought they were like public quests or not, my bone of contention was with the statement you made about "kill X quests" . Why are you pointing it out? Is there a problem with it? What is this "observation" you speak of? Because I don't see what there is to "observe".
To put a nail in the whole DE debate, hopefully for good:
YES, dynamic events will be 'similar' to public quests. However, they are NOT the same. You can go to (I think PAX is the next convention) to see this first hand. They are both phasing systems designed around 'events' that happen in the open world. That is basically where the similarities end, though. Public Quests had to be 'triggered' and were all very linear in nature. Dynamic events are non-linear. There's multiple examples of this, most commonly given is the centaur example:
'If you don't defeat the centaur invasion they will eventually take over the town. That town will not reset / hold townspeople until you can successfully repely the centaurs from it.'
You also have the DE in the later game area (forget the name, it's in one of the charr areas, with the large dragon). Depending on how you do the event, different outcomes / scenarios happen. One of which is trying to save the artillery cannons, so they can be used against the final Dragon Boss.
These are things you just don't see in WAR. As much as I enjoyed WAR (inspite it's bugs), it was (and still is) an unfinished game. They were trying to do something similar to GW2's system with public quests, but they weren't able to fully pull it off. If it helps, you could think of the DE as a more fully realized version of the public quest system. It's similar in concept, but not the same.
but that makes me sound like I think MMORPG is code for 'Magical Barbie Dressup time'. Which may or may not be true.
/point
/giggle
but srsly, right on
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Number 1: Good concept i'm skeptical on how it works. I've heard tales (mind you not confirmed) that you walk into a DE and have to kill X number of enemies to get it to progress. If thats the case it won't seem very dynamic and more just puclic quest like.
... c'mon Whilan. Don't play this game. It's not really funny.
It's not dynamic because it's made out of magical story fairies that generate content with state of the art AI story creation programs.
It's dynamic because... are you ready? I made this list just for you because you try and help me when I have SW:ToR questions.
1. The difficulty scales dynamically in response to the amount of people participating.
2. The events and things activate whether or not players are there, and the effects are dynamic. That is to say, that it changes the world state... sometimes permanently, until players manage to move things around (Like completely shutting down a village, removing access to teleport points and NPCs there.)
3. They are dynamic because things are happening in the world. If somebody runs up and tells you 'Hey, our village is being invaded by centaurs', it really honestly is, and killing them or not makes a difference.
Also, you should stop being confused that people are taking issue with your statement. You literally just said here that their dynamic events don't seem to be dynamic events, they just seem to be public quests.
Yeah, they're a descendant of public quests, but there is a difference in the structure and mechanisms involved, and if you can't see the difference... well, that's what's driving people crazy and having them try to explain what seems so obvious to them to you.
Would it be fair of me to say they are dynamic public quests? i'll give you they are dynamic in the sense they respond to the players. So i'll go half way and say Dynamic public quests.
You can call em Pulled Pork Sandwich for all I care, the point is you understand what they are
Originally posted by Meowhead Originally posted by Foomerang 5. Graphics 4. Combat 3. Dynamic Events 2. PvP 1. No monthly fee
Where does sound track fit in there? I usually don't pay too much attention to sound track, but I have to admit Jeremy Soule makes playing games seem so much more epic. Though if I was making a list of five things, I'd probably start with something like 'three channel dye system where dyes work differently upon outfit parts depending upon the material it's made out of', but that makes me sound like I think MMORPG is code for 'Magical Barbie Dressup time'. Which may or may not be true. Jeremy Soule is a badass. We will call that reason #1.5 Im guilty of dressing up my characters as well as any roleplayer should be. Dont get me started on the weeks I spent getting my Droid Engineer looking perfect, heh. Thats more of a general MMO thing for me though. Not really exclusive to GW2's dye system.
Jeremy Soule is a badass. We will call that reason #1.5
Im guilty of dressing up my characters as well as any roleplayer should be. Dont get me started on the weeks I spent getting my Droid Engineer looking perfect, heh. Thats more of a general MMO thing for me though. Not really exclusive to GW2's dye system.
You have to admit there's a lot of MMOs where customization is basically crap though. I think 90% of the reason I've played CoH/Champions is just because of character customizing.
... and I'm totally a fashionhorse sort of RP person. I try to give me characters body types, facial features and clothes that I feel fits them and seperates them from the pack.
My preferred server in any game is RP... and RP/PvP if they have PvP servers. Too bad for most people, RP and PvP seem mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by Meowhead Originally posted by Foomerang
Jeremy Soule is a badass. We will call that reason #1.5 Im guilty of dressing up my characters as well as any roleplayer should be. Dont get me started on the weeks I spent getting my Droid Engineer looking perfect, heh. Thats more of a general MMO thing for me though. Not really exclusive to GW2's dye system.
You have to admit there's a lot of MMOs where customization is basically crap though. I think 90% of the reason I've played CoH/Champions is just because of character customizing. ... and I'm totally a fashionhorse sort of RP person. I try to give me characters body types, facial features and clothes that I feel fits them and seperates them from the pack. My preferred server in any game is RP... and RP/PvP if they have PvP servers. Too bad for most people, RP and PvP seem mutually exclusive. Yeah I agree. I had a CoH account and just made Characters for a week. Good stuff. I always shoot for two looks right off the bat. I make an old fisherman and a tomboy. The rest I make just to see what looks good in that particular game. FFXIV by the way is awesome for this type of stuff.
EXPERIENCE tells me that the system is flawed at a design level, and I have not seen anything in the design to change the absolute fail that Mythic has/had.
1) Rewards scale to participation.
2) Events scale to population (so, no more empty newbie PQs).
3) Events do not simply cycle on a timer. Some cycle, some are triggered by players, some happen randomly, some happen as a result of other events.
4) Events flow into each other, creating branching storylines.
5) Events are not all simply "kill X of Y".
6) Events represent almost all of the persistent world PvE content, instead of being tacked-on next to standard fare quest grind.
All of these are innovations over WAR's PQs, and ALL of them have been shown in current demos. There is no hype at work here; the DE system is working AS ADVERTISED, and the game is still pre-alpha. We know it works, people have played it, there have been extensive demo reviews and videos for almost a year now. Your "experience" sums up to a fat wad of crap compared to actual hands on experience with the game.
If you remember we were told basically the same crap by Mythic about the PQ system (scaling rewards and such). So yeah experience tells me that they'll say what they must so that you are still interested in the system, and convince the consumer it's not like previous failed exercises in the exact same type of system.
I mean it's seriously rude to tell someone they're experience isn't experience cause you think it's gonna help you prove a point of view. If the system comes out and it's excellent then I'll be very happy and very surprised but yeah.
EXPERIENCE tells me that the system is flawed at a design level, and I have not seen anything in the design to change the absolute fail that Mythic has/had.
Oh really so you are saying that the system scaling rewards are the same in WAR and GW2? That Mythic had created software to monitor player activity while they are in a PQ and based on that activity players get rewarded. Oh and you are also saying that Mythic said they did the same things Anet has shown they have done to the DE with their PQs. So let me get this right Mythic said PQ would scale to the amount of people involved, that they would have a persistent effect on the world. That the PQs would have a visual effect on the world with creatures from warhammer letting you know about the greenskin horde that is actually about to pillage the caste. Oh and you are saying that they did videos showing just that across multiple zones (at different level ranges) with dozens of different types of PQs shown before the game launched?
You know what the fun part about you saying your experience proves this, the fact that the internet has videos and interviews before launch proving how much you like making stuff up to prove a point. Ok let’s start with the 6 none video interviews I found that take place right after launch or before. So does any of them say they a scaling award system like GW2? Nope! Does any of them say that PQ scale to the amount of players? Nope! Do any of them say that it will have a persistent affect on the world? Nope! Well I could keep going but in short the rest of the answers are NO (since it does not have the visual affect and in all their examples they use tier 1 PQs). Do any of the videos have a yes answer to any of this? Nope!
Ok so what do they say about PQs you ask? That they are a quest that anyone can join and they are kind of like raids set in the world. That by doing PQs you earn contribution for a chance to get loot and influence to earn loot from vendors (well I will give you half credit here, since it is like the DE karma system in GW2). They also say that the first couple of stages you might be able to solo then the last stages will always require a group (later on they changed it so one PQ in a zone can be done solo). They also stated you will find PQs by entering into a area and getting a notification that there is a PQ going on (I will give you half credit here, in GW2 there is NPCs that will be running in terror to let you know a DE is happening but just in case you miss that subtle clue they have a UI popup too). They also say that the best loot you can get in the game is based on RVR and PQs.
Yeah I guess there is not 1000s of videos all over youtube to prove that GW2 DEs is not just PQs. So I guess we will have to take your word from your overwhelming experience that DEs are not all there cracked up to be.
But you all should not take my word for it, here is all the links to the official warhmmer PQ podcast and interviews. After all my experience with warhammer might be making me delusional so I see bad guys everywhere and that they all want my money!
here are some things i love about GW2 which tend to be overlooked because of the other flashy innovations it brings to the game.. imo, some of them are so cool they'd probably be promoted all over the place as major selling points of a game that's less innovative overall
6) minigames - 20 things to do in GW2 beyond the usual "beat stuff up" fare, woohoo!!
7) sidekicking up and down - wonderful! No more waiting for people to catch up and watching content slide away beneath your level
8) weapons change your skillsets! it's amazing that no one has thought of this before! It's quite obvious you can't do the same things with your axe and with your dagger. FPS's had this realistic mechanic since they started. Other mmos seem dated in comparison even before GW2 is out!
9) accout-wide achievement/trait unlocks! Now I don't have to feel guilty when I try out my alts!
10) cat people! My 7-yo daughter loves cats, tae kwan do and WAR's zealot... so charr were a natural insta-crush for her. If you see an unlikely combination of a charr necromancer wielding axes and an asura warrior that's us!
To put a nail in the whole DE debate, hopefully for good:
YES, dynamic events will be 'similar' to public quests. However, they are NOT the same. You can go to (I think PAX is the next convention) to see this first hand. They are both phasing systems designed around 'events' that happen in the open world. That is basically where the similarities end, though. Public Quests had to be 'triggered' and were all very linear in nature. Dynamic events are non-linear. There's multiple examples of this, most commonly given is the centaur example:
'If you don't defeat the centaur invasion they will eventually take over the town. That town will not reset / hold townspeople until you can successfully repely the centaurs from it.'
You also have the DE in the later game area (forget the name, it's in one of the charr areas, with the large dragon). Depending on how you do the event, different outcomes / scenarios happen. One of which is trying to save the artillery cannons, so they can be used against the final Dragon Boss.
These are things you just don't see in WAR. As much as I enjoyed WAR (inspite it's bugs), it was (and still is) an unfinished game. They were trying to do something similar to GW2's system with public quests, but they weren't able to fully pull it off. If it helps, you could think of the DE as a more fully realized version of the public quest system. It's similar in concept, but not the same.
You forgot the most important thing: GW2s DEs scales. WARs PQs are more or less dead because there rarely is enough people in the right place.
WARs PQs are a small fun feat added to make the game a little more fun, they never spent that much work on it.
GW2s are the main system instead of questing, of course that will be better and have a lot more work in it.
WAR could have been a pretty good game but they cut out half the content so they could launch it due to lack of funds, ANET on the other hand seems to be able to release the game when it actually is ready for realease (Cutting 4 of 6 cities 6 weeks before release is nothing but a disaster, that was WARs real endgame they cut out, I am not sure if they cut down PQs or not but it is far from unlikely).
I like the list, and I agree for me those are all big selling points. However there is one major detraction that is keeping me from feeling much anticipation for this title. ITS ANOTHER FREAKIN FANTASY GAME. No matter how cool and different A-Net manages to make this game, the fact I'm sick to death of elves, dwarves, orks, snorks, and fraggles, will always be at the back of my mind.
Can't agree more. So very tired of WoW-style high fantasy MMOs.
I like fantasy games, always have and probably will, especially fantasy games that create a compelling and interesting world and ANet have done that since Prophenices. The beauty of fantasy is that it is by definition unrestrictedand while most developers don't take advantage of that it does give an amazing amount of creative room within it's conventions for those that do.
It's not often that I come out in 100% support of a MMORPG.com article, but this time I am.
GW2 is a beast and will redefine much of the genre after the false starts that Rift and SWtoR represent.
I will buy SWtoR and probably enjoy it for a couple of months, mainly because a couple of RLfriends want to play it, but GW2 is the real deal imo, not some derivative unimaginative reheated clone with story areas and voice overs.
I absolutely hate the "LFG Russian Roulette" game that most MMOs (including now, sadly, GW2) force you to play if you want to explore any dungeons or instances. Will I get a group full of morons and as**hats or will I be lucky this time?
When and if GW2 brings back heroes (for its group/instanced content), then I'll actually CRAVE playing the game, but not before.
The points on the OP's list are all true, and there are more good things besides about GW2, but they do not make me want to play the game all that much. I liked being able to tackle group content with smaller player groups (1, 2, or 3 people), as you could in GW1 (since you could use heroes to fill out your party) without having to PUG/LFG. That flexibility is now gone. GW2 still looks to be a good game, but it's not as good as it could have been, and not one I "crave" to play.
The reason I look forward to playing Neverwinter is because it far more like GW1 (in terms of game design/content accessibility) than GW2 is, and I felt GW1 was just about the perfect blend of great content that was accessible to virtually all playing styles: from group-minded to solo-oriented players and everyone in between.
Perhaps ArenaNet will one day offer "Hero Packs" as some kind of MT: if they did, I bet they'd make a mint off of selling them.
The only PvE content in GW2 that requires you to form a group are the dungeons. You have the other 90% of the content to play solo, if you so desire. Or, you know, grab a few friends and try them; max party size is limited to 5 so it's easier to form a group with friends (among other reasons).
As for heroes: good luck getting them implemented properly in a game so focused on positioning, cross-profession combos, keeping yourself alive, dodge rolling, and using skills well instead of on recharge. In short: don't hold your breath. If you really can't stand people that much, you shouldn't use dungeons as an excuse not to play the game, because there will be so much more to it than that.
I absolutely hate the "LFG Russian Roulette" game that most MMOs (including now, sadly, GW2) force you to play if you want to explore any dungeons or instances. Will I get a group full of morons and as**hats or will I be lucky this time?
When and if GW2 brings back heroes (for its group/instanced content), then I'll actually CRAVE playing the game, but not before.
The points on the OP's list are all true, and there are more good things besides about GW2, but they do not make me want to play the game all that much. I liked being able to tackle group content with smaller player groups (1, 2, or 3 people), as you could in GW1 (since you could use heroes to fill out your party) without having to PUG/LFG. That flexibility is now gone. GW2 still looks to be a good game, but it's not as good as it could have been, and not one I "crave" to play.
The reason I look forward to playing Neverwinter is because it far more like GW1 (in terms of game design/content accessibility) than GW2 is, and I felt GW1 was just about the perfect blend of great content that was accessible to virtually all playing styles: from group-minded to solo-oriented players and everyone in between.
Perhaps ArenaNet will one day offer "Hero Packs" as some kind of MT: if they did, I bet they'd make a mint off of selling them.
Yeah, GW2 gets rid of heroes, but where it takes away the opportunity to play a dungeon with only a few friends, it gives you a much greater opportunity to make friends.
Think about it. Why are you PUGing in the first place? Because you don't have any friends on. Why don't you have any friends? Because the game is nothing but a solo quest experience so you never got a chance to know anybody. You don't want to run into anybody when you're out in the world, they just compete with you for spawns. Even if you did, it's not like you have a chance to see if anybody is any good. How could you even tell?
With GW2, you've got a whole world of dynamic events that enable you to work with other people. Does that guy set up cross profession combos for you? If you set up combos for him, does he take advantage? Does he rez you when you're down? Does he protect you in the first place? If you rez him, does he say thank you?
The first dungeon in GW2 is at level 35. You go out there and be friendly, you'll never have to PUG at all ever.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I like the list, and I agree for me those are all big selling points. However there is one major detraction that is keeping me from feeling much anticipation for this title. ITS ANOTHER FREAKIN FANTASY GAME. No matter how cool and different A-Net manages to make this game, the fact I'm sick to death of elves, dwarves, orks, snorks, and fraggles, will always be at the back of my mind.
The drwarves are nearly exticnt (not a playable race). Sylvari are not elves even though some people try to make them out to be.
Dwarves are nearly exitinct (not a playable race). Arenanet apparently agreed that dwarves are old hat. Though some people try to make them out to be, sylvari are not elves. I haven't played other MMOs but its my understanding that Arenanet has taken common racial characterisitics and given them to different races. For example the most technologically advanced race is the most beastial. The cat like charr diddn't invent gunpowder but they did invent guns and flame throwers. The race closest to nature is not the oldest race but has in fact only been around for 25 years., and they''re plants. In fact the elder races in Guild Wars have not done well. The Giganticus Lupicius (the true giants) are exctinct, no one living knows anything about them. The Forgotten, The Mursaat, The Seers, The Dwarves are all nearly exctinct, their civilizations gone.. The human race once a great power ruling Tyria has been reduced to one small struggling nation.
Actually regarding number 4, i just tried this feature in Alice The Madness returns. pretty cool feature if you ask me. Would love to see how it will work in a MMO.
Actually regarding number 4, i just tried this feature in Alice The Madness returns. pretty cool feature if you ask me. Would love to see how it will work in a MMO.
Yes its funny that the article acts like its a new thing just created especially for GW2. But then everybody acts like every feature in GW2 is something totally new.
I guess if you just call it something new it makes it something new.
I have to say, I'm with you on all of what you said. It seems to me that ArenaNet is trying to do whatever they can to reduce the "misery factor" that plagues most MMO's. It doesn't matter to me if it's an entirely original idea or not (the particular method the use to achieve this)...just the thought of being able to sit down and jam on a game and enjoy ALL my time doing it...NICE. It's neat to have some real options for once.
Originally posted by ninjinkai506 I have to say, I'm with you on all of what you said. It seems to me that ArenaNet is trying to do whatever they can to reduce the "misery factor" that plagues most MMO's. It doesn't matter to me if it's an entirely original idea or not (the particular method the use to achieve this)...just the thought of being able to sit down and jam on a game and enjoy ALL the time doing it...NICE. It's neat to have some real options for once.
Yeah, too bad the "misery factor" that plagues most mmos isnt the game mechanics but the communities heh.
Comments
That near death thing does sound pretty awesome.
Where does sound track fit in there? I usually don't pay too much attention to sound track, but I have to admit Jeremy Soule makes playing games seem so much more epic.
Though if I was making a list of five things, I'd probably start with something like 'three channel dye system where dyes work differently upon outfit parts depending upon the material it's made out of', but that makes me sound like I think MMORPG is code for 'Magical Barbie Dressup time'. Which may or may not be true.
Maybe I didn't make it clear but my bone of contention was not whether you thought they were like public quests or not, my bone of contention was with the statement you made about "kill X quests" . Why are you pointing it out? Is there a problem with it? What is this "observation" you speak of? Because I don't see what there is to "observe".
This is not a game.
To put a nail in the whole DE debate, hopefully for good:
YES, dynamic events will be 'similar' to public quests. However, they are NOT the same. You can go to (I think PAX is the next convention) to see this first hand. They are both phasing systems designed around 'events' that happen in the open world. That is basically where the similarities end, though. Public Quests had to be 'triggered' and were all very linear in nature. Dynamic events are non-linear. There's multiple examples of this, most commonly given is the centaur example:
'If you don't defeat the centaur invasion they will eventually take over the town. That town will not reset / hold townspeople until you can successfully repely the centaurs from it.'
You also have the DE in the later game area (forget the name, it's in one of the charr areas, with the large dragon). Depending on how you do the event, different outcomes / scenarios happen. One of which is trying to save the artillery cannons, so they can be used against the final Dragon Boss.
These are things you just don't see in WAR. As much as I enjoyed WAR (inspite it's bugs), it was (and still is) an unfinished game. They were trying to do something similar to GW2's system with public quests, but they weren't able to fully pull it off. If it helps, you could think of the DE as a more fully realized version of the public quest system. It's similar in concept, but not the same.
/point
/giggle
but srsly, right on
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
You can call em Pulled Pork Sandwich for all I care, the point is you understand what they are
Though if I was making a list of five things, I'd probably start with something like 'three channel dye system where dyes work differently upon outfit parts depending upon the material it's made out of', but that makes me sound like I think MMORPG is code for 'Magical Barbie Dressup time'. Which may or may not be true.
Jeremy Soule is a badass. We will call that reason #1.5
Im guilty of dressing up my characters as well as any roleplayer should be. Dont get me started on the weeks I spent getting my Droid Engineer looking perfect, heh. Thats more of a general MMO thing for me though. Not really exclusive to GW2's dye system.
You have to admit there's a lot of MMOs where customization is basically crap though. I think 90% of the reason I've played CoH/Champions is just because of character customizing.
... and I'm totally a fashionhorse sort of RP person. I try to give me characters body types, facial features and clothes that I feel fits them and seperates them from the pack.
My preferred server in any game is RP... and RP/PvP if they have PvP servers. Too bad for most people, RP and PvP seem mutually exclusive.
Jeremy Soule is a badass. We will call that reason #1.5
Im guilty of dressing up my characters as well as any roleplayer should be. Dont get me started on the weeks I spent getting my Droid Engineer looking perfect, heh. Thats more of a general MMO thing for me though. Not really exclusive to GW2's dye system.
You have to admit there's a lot of MMOs where customization is basically crap though. I think 90% of the reason I've played CoH/Champions is just because of character customizing.
... and I'm totally a fashionhorse sort of RP person. I try to give me characters body types, facial features and clothes that I feel fits them and seperates them from the pack.
My preferred server in any game is RP... and RP/PvP if they have PvP servers. Too bad for most people, RP and PvP seem mutually exclusive.
Yeah I agree. I had a CoH account and just made Characters for a week. Good stuff. I always shoot for two looks right off the bat. I make an old fisherman and a tomboy. The rest I make just to see what looks good in that particular game. FFXIV by the way is awesome for this type of stuff.
1) Rewards scale to participation.
2) Events scale to population (so, no more empty newbie PQs).
3) Events do not simply cycle on a timer. Some cycle, some are triggered by players, some happen randomly, some happen as a result of other events.
4) Events flow into each other, creating branching storylines.
5) Events are not all simply "kill X of Y".
6) Events represent almost all of the persistent world PvE content, instead of being tacked-on next to standard fare quest grind.
All of these are innovations over WAR's PQs, and ALL of them have been shown in current demos. There is no hype at work here; the DE system is working AS ADVERTISED, and the game is still pre-alpha. We know it works, people have played it, there have been extensive demo reviews and videos for almost a year now. Your "experience" sums up to a fat wad of crap compared to actual hands on experience with the game.
Oh really so you are saying that the system scaling rewards are the same in WAR and GW2? That Mythic had created software to monitor player activity while they are in a PQ and based on that activity players get rewarded. Oh and you are also saying that Mythic said they did the same things Anet has shown they have done to the DE with their PQs. So let me get this right Mythic said PQ would scale to the amount of people involved, that they would have a persistent effect on the world. That the PQs would have a visual effect on the world with creatures from warhammer letting you know about the greenskin horde that is actually about to pillage the caste. Oh and you are saying that they did videos showing just that across multiple zones (at different level ranges) with dozens of different types of PQs shown before the game launched?
You know what the fun part about you saying your experience proves this, the fact that the internet has videos and interviews before launch proving how much you like making stuff up to prove a point. Ok let’s start with the 6 none video interviews I found that take place right after launch or before. So does any of them say they a scaling award system like GW2? Nope! Does any of them say that PQ scale to the amount of players? Nope! Do any of them say that it will have a persistent affect on the world? Nope! Well I could keep going but in short the rest of the answers are NO (since it does not have the visual affect and in all their examples they use tier 1 PQs). Do any of the videos have a yes answer to any of this? Nope!
Ok so what do they say about PQs you ask? That they are a quest that anyone can join and they are kind of like raids set in the world. That by doing PQs you earn contribution for a chance to get loot and influence to earn loot from vendors (well I will give you half credit here, since it is like the DE karma system in GW2). They also say that the first couple of stages you might be able to solo then the last stages will always require a group (later on they changed it so one PQ in a zone can be done solo). They also stated you will find PQs by entering into a area and getting a notification that there is a PQ going on (I will give you half credit here, in GW2 there is NPCs that will be running in terror to let you know a DE is happening but just in case you miss that subtle clue they have a UI popup too). They also say that the best loot you can get in the game is based on RVR and PQs.
Yeah I guess there is not 1000s of videos all over youtube to prove that GW2 DEs is not just PQs. So I guess we will have to take your word from your overwhelming experience that DEs are not all there cracked up to be.
But you all should not take my word for it, here is all the links to the official warhmmer PQ podcast and interviews. After all my experience with warhammer might be making me delusional so I see bad guys everywhere and that they all want my money!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeqJFPH7jWE&feature=related
http://war.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=16134
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/warinterviewseries/3500-Warhammer-Online-Exclusive-Interview-3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tHLPzTYOGQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkcd5N77KM4
http://war.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=13507
http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php?t=27922
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/51166
http://www.thewarmongers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=302956
http://www.gamestreet.net/games/world-of-warcraft/news/53884/tth-war-interview-the-magic-in-patch-11
here are some things i love about GW2 which tend to be overlooked because of the other flashy innovations it brings to the game.. imo, some of them are so cool they'd probably be promoted all over the place as major selling points of a game that's less innovative overall
6) minigames - 20 things to do in GW2 beyond the usual "beat stuff up" fare, woohoo!!
7) sidekicking up and down - wonderful! No more waiting for people to catch up and watching content slide away beneath your level
8) weapons change your skillsets! it's amazing that no one has thought of this before! It's quite obvious you can't do the same things with your axe and with your dagger. FPS's had this realistic mechanic since they started. Other mmos seem dated in comparison even before GW2 is out!
9) accout-wide achievement/trait unlocks! Now I don't have to feel guilty when I try out my alts!
10) cat people! My 7-yo daughter loves cats, tae kwan do and WAR's zealot... so charr were a natural insta-crush for her. If you see an unlikely combination of a charr necromancer wielding axes and an asura warrior that's us!
You forgot the most important thing: GW2s DEs scales. WARs PQs are more or less dead because there rarely is enough people in the right place.
WARs PQs are a small fun feat added to make the game a little more fun, they never spent that much work on it.
GW2s are the main system instead of questing, of course that will be better and have a lot more work in it.
WAR could have been a pretty good game but they cut out half the content so they could launch it due to lack of funds, ANET on the other hand seems to be able to release the game when it actually is ready for realease (Cutting 4 of 6 cities 6 weeks before release is nothing but a disaster, that was WARs real endgame they cut out, I am not sure if they cut down PQs or not but it is far from unlikely).
Can't agree more. So very tired of WoW-style high fantasy MMOs.
I like fantasy games, always have and probably will, especially fantasy games that create a compelling and interesting world and ANet have done that since Prophenices. The beauty of fantasy is that it is by definition unrestrictedand while most developers don't take advantage of that it does give an amazing amount of creative room within it's conventions for those that do.
It's not often that I come out in 100% support of a MMORPG.com article, but this time I am.
GW2 is a beast and will redefine much of the genre after the false starts that Rift and SWtoR represent.
I will buy SWtoR and probably enjoy it for a couple of months, mainly because a couple of RLfriends want to play it, but GW2 is the real deal imo, not some derivative unimaginative reheated clone with story areas and voice overs.
I absolutely hate the "LFG Russian Roulette" game that most MMOs (including now, sadly, GW2) force you to play if you want to explore any dungeons or instances. Will I get a group full of morons and as**hats or will I be lucky this time?
When and if GW2 brings back heroes (for its group/instanced content), then I'll actually CRAVE playing the game, but not before.
The points on the OP's list are all true, and there are more good things besides about GW2, but they do not make me want to play the game all that much. I liked being able to tackle group content with smaller player groups (1, 2, or 3 people), as you could in GW1 (since you could use heroes to fill out your party) without having to PUG/LFG. That flexibility is now gone. GW2 still looks to be a good game, but it's not as good as it could have been, and not one I "crave" to play.
The reason I look forward to playing Neverwinter is because it far more like GW1 (in terms of game design/content accessibility) than GW2 is, and I felt GW1 was just about the perfect blend of great content that was accessible to virtually all playing styles: from group-minded to solo-oriented players and everyone in between.
Perhaps ArenaNet will one day offer "Hero Packs" as some kind of MT: if they did, I bet they'd make a mint off of selling them.
The only PvE content in GW2 that requires you to form a group are the dungeons. You have the other 90% of the content to play solo, if you so desire. Or, you know, grab a few friends and try them; max party size is limited to 5 so it's easier to form a group with friends (among other reasons).
As for heroes: good luck getting them implemented properly in a game so focused on positioning, cross-profession combos, keeping yourself alive, dodge rolling, and using skills well instead of on recharge. In short: don't hold your breath. If you really can't stand people that much, you shouldn't use dungeons as an excuse not to play the game, because there will be so much more to it than that.
Also: Guild Wars. FWIW.
Yeah, GW2 gets rid of heroes, but where it takes away the opportunity to play a dungeon with only a few friends, it gives you a much greater opportunity to make friends.
Think about it. Why are you PUGing in the first place? Because you don't have any friends on. Why don't you have any friends? Because the game is nothing but a solo quest experience so you never got a chance to know anybody. You don't want to run into anybody when you're out in the world, they just compete with you for spawns. Even if you did, it's not like you have a chance to see if anybody is any good. How could you even tell?
With GW2, you've got a whole world of dynamic events that enable you to work with other people. Does that guy set up cross profession combos for you? If you set up combos for him, does he take advantage? Does he rez you when you're down? Does he protect you in the first place? If you rez him, does he say thank you?
The first dungeon in GW2 is at level 35. You go out there and be friendly, you'll never have to PUG at all ever.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Oops my comments didn't get posted,
Dwarves are nearly exitinct (not a playable race). Arenanet apparently agreed that dwarves are old hat. Though some people try to make them out to be, sylvari are not elves. I haven't played other MMOs but its my understanding that Arenanet has taken common racial characterisitics and given them to different races. For example the most technologically advanced race is the most beastial. The cat like charr diddn't invent gunpowder but they did invent guns and flame throwers. The race closest to nature is not the oldest race but has in fact only been around for 25 years., and they''re plants. In fact the elder races in Guild Wars have not done well. The Giganticus Lupicius (the true giants) are exctinct, no one living knows anything about them. The Forgotten, The Mursaat, The Seers, The Dwarves are all nearly exctinct, their civilizations gone.. The human race once a great power ruling Tyria has been reduced to one small struggling nation.
Actually regarding number 4, i just tried this feature in Alice The Madness returns. pretty cool feature if you ask me. Would love to see how it will work in a MMO.
Yes its funny that the article acts like its a new thing just created especially for GW2. But then everybody acts like every feature in GW2 is something totally new.
I guess if you just call it something new it makes it something new.
I have to say, I'm with you on all of what you said. It seems to me that ArenaNet is trying to do whatever they can to reduce the "misery factor" that plagues most MMO's. It doesn't matter to me if it's an entirely original idea or not (the particular method the use to achieve this)...just the thought of being able to sit down and jam on a game and enjoy ALL my time doing it...NICE. It's neat to have some real options for once.
I would actually say the community is the REDEEMING factor of most MMOs. If you took out all the other people and just played an MMO by yourself...
... you'd probably be a lot happier playing a decent single player RPG instead.
How many MMOs have game mechanics and storytelling better than any half-assed CRPG?