GW2 has no leveling curve, levels don't mean anything in GW2 at all, so saying the story can take you to max level doesn't mean anything if getting from 1 - 10 takes 4 story quests and whatever events you run into on your way. that would mean it would really only take 20 quests based around your story.
I'm pretty versed on what GW2 offers as far as personal story, as stated most of the choices you take are up front, with some chances to twist the story in the middle, in comparison, you have major ways to change your story and character at just about every turn in SWTOR. In GW2, they utilize events to force some kind of "cascade" or chain, in SWTOR, they utilize story and player interaction.
As for 60 reasons why you should play SWTOR, I could list a great deal of reasons why I think people should play SWTOR, I dare say probably more reasons than most could give you regarding that game, but this is not the place to do it.
Once again, you have nothing but hype to say.
SWTOR has choices in the middle of the story? That's amazing... so does GW2. No major way to change your charcter in GW2? I'll give you quick example of the personality system. If you decide to go down the more ferocious path and bash your way through the stories, you will build up a reputation as being so. NPC's like children and shop owners will cowar away in fear and run. If you decide to do a great dead that is very hard, then NPC's will point at you as you walk in the cities and shout out things about you being a hero. So again, since you probably do not know much about GW2's mechanics, don't compare them to SWTOR. I know what SWTOR does better than GW2, and I know what GW2 does better than SWTOR. I have been a BioWare, even through DA2, which had a VERY short story. It's why I ended buying a lot of the DLC for DA and DA2.
So again, you CAN change your character in the story of GW2. This mechanic isn't some type of patten that BioWare holds.
I didn't say you couldn't, you just have fewer chances to make these kinds of choices.
"Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. "
Which is great, but each choice you make, from the companions you choose to the choices you make, to the characters sex, will change your outcome in SWTOR. Its not like I'm making this up out of thin air here.
I'm sorry but GW2s story can't even be compared to SWTORs story. Its not that BioWare is BioWare and Anet is Anet. Its because BioWares entire focus is on story and integrating that into a lot of the gameplay, all the way from the way people view your character, to the way your character progresses, and so on. GW2s story isn't as detailed, and this is based on the story information we have so far. They have fewer options throughout the course of the story gameplay (as they stated at least 1 major twist) with a lot of your backstory that shapes the character up front. (Bioware has that too with the characters background) and so on.
I'm not saying one story is better than the other, but put simply, 200+ hours per character, with each character being different is a ton of content based around different aspects of the story.
While there are plenty of things that we can compare between the two, that isn't the point. Its not just Story = Story, Quests = Events Crafting = Crafting. Its done differently in each game. One story could be.. oh, say... 200 hours long and another 20 hours long. Crafting could be pointless in one, and drive an economy in the other. Not everything is simply equal, and its really dependant on what the games focus is. In GW2, I believe the focus is much heavier on the events than the story -- they sure as hell aren't equal parts events and story.
First of all, when I was saying story = story, I didn't mean they were the same. I meant if we should compare, we should comapre story to story. Yes, crafting should be compared to crafting. They won't be the same in every game, some games have better crafting. But just because one crafting is bigger or one crafting is smaller, doesn't mean you should compare crafting+quests to crafting. No, you compare crafting to crafting.
Also, I follow SWTOR pretty tightly, and I remember something about the first part of the game is 50% story, while the latter half is much lower, something like 15%.
But again, you KEEP comparing hype to hype. You have no idea how long GW2's story will be, other than the fact that BioWare developed it.
GW2s story isn't as detailed, and this is based on the story information we have so far.
You mean the very minuscule amount of personal story information? Let’s see what we know is that you can shape your personality, that you get to pick story options at the start of the game, and we get to choose what faction we want to become part of to fight the dragons. We have not see any of the personal stories in videos, besides the start, because ANet does not want to ruin it for the fans, and we have only got tiny bits of information about it in interviews.
But apparently this is enough for you to make a judgment call on the quality of story GW2 players are going to get compared to your unbiased TOR story fandom. I love it, this from someone that says GW2 fans misrepresent DEs. But apparently that does not extend to you since you can take the little bit of information and tell us exactly how it is going to be. Apparently hypocrisy knows no bounds tonight!
Plus I love your 2 story to get to level 10 theories that is just awesome. Especially since the last I heard about leveling from an ANet developer they were looking at an hour or more play time between each level. So if that is only 2 stories to get to level 10 those must be some long and in-depth stories! HAHA
"Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. "
OH my god this is getting funnier, what was it you said to me earlier? Oh yeah now I remember taking a piece of information either out of context or making a mountain out of a mole hill. The great part is you are doing it right here, taking one sentence out of paragraph to try and make your point sound valid. Now let’s see the whole paragraph that sentence came out of.
With all these choices in the game, how many story combinations are there?
Thousands. Right now (the specific numbers might be tweaked in development), there are about ten biography questions, with three to five different answers for each. There are unique stories for your race, with minor alterations based on your class choice or other factors. Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. Plus, the stories for each order, which are separate, also have moments of choice. There are different stories for each of the Iconics, with which you can interact, and the story of the Elder Dragon of Orr itself. Really, the number of stories is gigantic, and it will only get bigger over time.
Wow when you actually read that sentence in context it sounds way different then the way you are trying to present it. Good job TOR story fandom for the win!
I'm sorry but GW2s story can't even be compared to SWTORs story. Its not that BioWare is BioWare and Anet is Anet. Its because BioWares entire focus is on story and integrating that into a lot of the gameplay, all the way from the way people view your character, to the way your character progresses, and so on. GW2s story isn't as detailed, and this is based on the story information we have so far. They have fewer options throughout the course of the story gameplay (as they stated at least 1 major twist) with a lot of your backstory that shapes the character up front. (Bioware has that too with the characters background) and so on.
I'm not saying one story is better than the other, but put simply, 200+ hours per character, with each character being different is a ton of content based around different aspects of the story.
While there are plenty of things that we can compare between the two, that isn't the point. Its not just Story = Story, Quests = Events Crafting = Crafting. Its done differently in each game. One story could be.. oh, say... 200 hours long and another 20 hours long. Crafting could be pointless in one, and drive an economy in the other. Not everything is simply equal, and its really dependant on what the games focus is. In GW2, I believe the focus is much heavier on the events than the story -- they sure as hell aren't equal parts events and story.
First of all, when I was saying story = story, I didn't mean they were the same. I meant if we should compare, we should comapre story to story. Yes, crafting should be compared to crafting. They won't be the same in every game, some games have better crafting. But just because one crafting is bigger or one crafting is smaller, doesn't mean you should compare crafting+quests to crafting. No, you compare crafting to crafting.
Also, I follow SWTOR pretty tightly, and I remember something about the first part of the game is 50% story, while the latter half is much lower, something like 15%.
But again, you KEEP comparing hype to hype. You have no idea how long GW2's story will be, other than the fact that BioWare developed it.
I will concede the point until I have a chance to at least get more detailed information on the length of GW2s stories. As for the percentages, they've thrown out a lot of numbers in regards to story content... the percentages you are talking about could be the amount of questing thats available for SWTOR: where they said at the beginning (on your home world) personal story is about 70+% of the content, and closer to end game is closer to around 15%. This was geared towards the amount of content, and where the content focus is.
There are 3 chapters in SWTOR, the largest is your first chapter, which is likely about 40 - 50% then the next two would be about 30 - 20 % to end game as well, which doesn't include crafting, PvP, exploration, and all that other stuff.
I'll admit I'm more interested in SWTOR than I am in GW2. Thats clear, and yes, I have some reservations about SWTOR too, and eventhough I'm pretty critical of GW2 its really more to break up the rabid fanatacism I see here day in and day out. Still, thats not to say that I think everything is better in SWTOR than in GW2, each game has its merits.
GW2s story isn't as detailed, and this is based on the story information we have so far.
You mean the very minuscule amount of personal story information? Let’s see what we know is that you can shape your personality, that you get to pick story options at the start of the game, and we get to choose what faction we want to become part of to fight the dragons. We have not see any of the personal stories in videos, besides the start, because ANet does not want to ruin it for the fans, and we have only got tiny bits of information about it in interviews.
But apparently this is enough for you to make a judgment call on the quality of story GW2 players are going to get compared to your unbiased TOR story fandom. I love it, this from someone that says GW2 fans misrepresent DEs. But apparently that does not extend to you since you can take the little bit of information and tell us exactly how it is going to be. Apparently hypocrisy knows no bounds tonight!
Plus I love your 2 story to get to level 10 theories that is just awesome. Especially since the last I heard about leveling from an ANet developer they were looking at an hour or more play time between each level. So if that is only 2 stories to get to level 10 those must be some long and in-depth stories! HAHA
I think you need to just quit now, you'll never catch up. For one, I stated 4 story quests... INCLUDING making it from one area to the next doing events along the way.. to level from 1 to 10. .... I think you need to stop, take a deep breath, and read my posts twice before you try and call me out. Not to mention this, again, was a hypothetical situation as a "for instance" not meant to be taken literally.
Hell I'll even try it again using your "1 hour to get from 1 to 10". If it takes an hour to get from 1 to 10 and theres no leveling curve, then you can get to max level in 8 hours. What if 1 story quest, plus DEs along the way takes 15 minutes? MATH QUESTION! How many story quests would it take to get to level cap with no curve in leveling. (8 hours).
"Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. "
OH my god this is getting funnier, what was it you said to me earlier? Oh yeah now I remember taking a piece of information either out of context or making a mountain out of a mole hill. The great part is you are doing it right here, taking one sentence out of paragraph to try and make your point sound valid. Now let’s see the whole paragraph that sentence came out of.
With all these choices in the game, how many story combinations are there?
Thousands. Right now (the specific numbers might be tweaked in development), there are about ten biography questions, with three to five different answers for each. There are unique stories for your race, with minor alterations based on your class choice or other factors. Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. Plus, the stories for each order, which are separate, also have moments of choice. There are different stories for each of the Iconics, with which you can interact, and the story of the Elder Dragon of Orr itself. Really, the number of stories is gigantic, and it will only get bigger over time.
Wow when you actually read that sentence in context it sounds way different then the way you are trying to present it. Good job TOR story fandom for the win!
How are you so bad at this? You even misquoted ME! I said less CHANCES to make gamechanging choices, not less story combinations. This doesn't cover length of stories at all, just major game changing features... not "minor alterations" not "choices you make at the beginning" in the context of my post, its meant to signify chances you have along the way to change your path, similar to how SWTOR represents their story.
Please, stay to my initial post and focus on what I'm saying, not what you want me to say. I was focusing specifically on the chance of major changes during the story process, not what choices you make at the beginning, not what class or race you choose, I was focusing on chances of gamechanging choices as you progress.
You could have made a stand on the point they said, "AT LEAST" one, meaning not limited to 1, and there could be more, but instead you went on a tangent proving there could be lots of potential stories based on minor alteration from race, class, or other factors (of those listed, these are chosen on character creation). Not even close to my intended point.
I will concede the point until I have a chance to at least get more detailed information on the length of GW2s stories. As for the percentages, they've thrown out a lot of numbers in regards to story content... the percentages you are talking about could be the amount of questing thats available for SWTOR: where they said at the beginning (on your home world) personal story is about 70+% of the content, and closer to end game is closer to around 15%. This was geared towards the amount of content, and where the content focus is.
There are 3 chapters in SWTOR, the largest is your first chapter, which is likely about 40 - 50% then the next two would be about 30 - 20 % to end game as well, which doesn't include crafting, PvP, exploration, and all that other stuff.
I'll admit I'm more interested in SWTOR than I am in GW2. Thats clear, and yes, I have some reservations about SWTOR too, and eventhough I'm pretty critical of GW2 its really more to break up the rabid fanatacism I see here day in and day out. Still, thats not to say that I think everything is better in SWTOR than in GW2, each game has its merits.
No doubt, the fanbois here on GW2 are crazy. But the SWTOR fanbois tend to come to the GW2 section and pour their fanboism too. But with that aside, I have a quick calculation, and according to it, SWTOR story should be bigger, but not a whole lot.
ArenaNet said that each level should be 90 minutes in between. But the first few levels will have a climb to that 90 minutes. With that, since the story should also level you up every 90 minutes, it should take roughly (note I said roughly) 120-ish hours to complete the story. Of course, if GW2 has long cutscenes, that means the story gameplay is a lot shorter. The same is said for SWTOR, if they have long cutscenes, than the actual gameplay will be shorter.
Of course in BOTH games there are different stories from races, orders, classes, history, and of course choices. So we can't calculate EVERY story yet. But in the end, since GW2 as a whole is only a fraction involved in it's main story, that isn't a bad number, considering the rest of the game will be dynamic events and PvP. SWTOR has banked a lot of it's game on the story, which still only comes up a little greater than GW2, from my (speculated and roughly estimated) calculations.
Note: everything above is pure speculations based on what EACH company has sad. Both will be advertising their games to death, so take the comparison lightly.
I will concede the point until I have a chance to at least get more detailed information on the length of GW2s stories. As for the percentages, they've thrown out a lot of numbers in regards to story content... the percentages you are talking about could be the amount of questing thats available for SWTOR: where they said at the beginning (on your home world) personal story is about 70+% of the content, and closer to end game is closer to around 15%. This was geared towards the amount of content, and where the content focus is.
There are 3 chapters in SWTOR, the largest is your first chapter, which is likely about 40 - 50% then the next two would be about 30 - 20 % to end game as well, which doesn't include crafting, PvP, exploration, and all that other stuff.
I'll admit I'm more interested in SWTOR than I am in GW2. Thats clear, and yes, I have some reservations about SWTOR too, and eventhough I'm pretty critical of GW2 its really more to break up the rabid fanatacism I see here day in and day out. Still, thats not to say that I think everything is better in SWTOR than in GW2, each game has its merits.
No doubt, the fanbois here on GW2 are crazy. But the SWTOR fanbois tend to come to the GW2 section and pour their fanboism too. But with that aside, I have a quick calculation, and according to it, SWTOR story should be bigger, but not a whole lot.
ArenaNet said that each level should be 90 minutes in between. But the first few levels will have a climb to that 90 minutes. With that, since the story should also level you up every 90 minutes, it should take roughly (note I said roughly) 120-ish hours to complete the story. Of course, if GW2 has long cutscenes, that means the story gameplay is a lot shorter. The same is said for SWTOR, if they have long cutscenes, than the actual gameplay will be shorter.
Of course in BOTH games there are different stories from races, orders, classes, history, and of course choices. So we can't calculate EVERY story yet. But in the end, since GW2 as a whole is only a fraction involved in it's main story, that isn't a bad number, considering the rest of the game will be dynamic events and PvP. SWTOR has banked a lot of it's game on the story, which still only comes up a little greater than GW2, from my (speculated and roughly estimated) calculations.
Note: everything above is pure speculations based on what EACH company has sad. Both will be advertising their games to death, so take the comparison lightly.
Well, the average cut scene in TOR is about 2 minutes, not including open world cutscenes or flashpoints.
I've had a much stronger experience with SWTOR, and it'll probably be a while before I have any experience with GW2, so that being said, I can only go from whats been said and what I've seen. Its not that I'm completely blind to what GW2 has, and I find your speculation to be intersting and something I'll keep in mind. Both games will likely have a large amount of content, just initially, I figured the focus of that content is where the meat of the game should lie. I figured for Anet that was DEs, while BioWare utilized story. My main reasoning behind the scope of SWTORs story, is that it isn't just 1 facet of gameplay, it encompasses quite a bit of the game. At this time, based on what I've seen, I don't see those same aspects in GW2. Of course, thats all subject to change as more information becomes available.
Well, the average cut scene in TOR is about 2 minutes, not including open world cutscenes or flashpoints.
I've had a much stronger experience with SWTOR, and it'll probably be a while before I have any experience with GW2, so that being said, I can only go from whats been said and what I've seen. Its not that I'm completely blind to what GW2 has, and I find your speculation to be intersting and something I'll keep in mind. Both games will likely have a large amount of content, just initially, I figured the focus of that content is where the meat of the game should lie. I figured for Anet that was DEs, while BioWare utilized story. My main reasoning behind the scope of SWTORs story, is that it isn't just 1 facet of gameplay, it encompasses quite a bit of the game. At this time, based on what I've seen, I don't see those same aspects in GW2. Of course, thats all subject to change as more information becomes available.
True, with all that said. I'm going stop downing SWTOR, since I am on their forums quite often. *I feel like a traitor*
Anyways, I guess each person has a different aspect to the game that they like. So I'm not going to bother trying to change their minds...
Well, the average cut scene in TOR is about 2 minutes, not including open world cutscenes or flashpoints.
I've had a much stronger experience with SWTOR, and it'll probably be a while before I have any experience with GW2, so that being said, I can only go from whats been said and what I've seen. Its not that I'm completely blind to what GW2 has, and I find your speculation to be intersting and something I'll keep in mind. Both games will likely have a large amount of content, just initially, I figured the focus of that content is where the meat of the game should lie. I figured for Anet that was DEs, while BioWare utilized story. My main reasoning behind the scope of SWTORs story, is that it isn't just 1 facet of gameplay, it encompasses quite a bit of the game. At this time, based on what I've seen, I don't see those same aspects in GW2. Of course, thats all subject to change as more information becomes available.
True, with all that said. I'm going stop downing SWTOR, since I am on their forums quite often. *I feel like a traitor*
Anyways, I guess each person has a different aspect to the game that they like. So I'm not going to bother trying to change their minds...
True, true. I must say though, I enjoyed the discussion Its tough when you have so many POV clash. I find that I often end up on one side of a debate even if I like the overall aspects that I'm debating against. I really am looking forward to GW2s story aspects! I guess the conversation sometimes just gets away from me. I should work on controlling that more.
An example of socializing in Guild Wars 2 I find pretty interesting is groups that form over time and over several dynamic events.
Basically when different people enter an event and complete it, and another event is shown to be nearby those players very well might end up moving on to that event together. In the example I give players decided to band together purposefully in order to go after the next event.
This actually happened to me in the demo. Though I descovered the group much later on when they where arround 4-5 players. I was in trouble with some drakes and they where passing through on their way to another event. They helped me defeat the drakes and suddenly I found my self in a makeshift party heading to another dynamic event.
Dynamic events are incredibly fun, much more than quests and with the right amount of player interaction cool things can happen. But really like any interaction between players its up to the players. If I didnt want to follow that group its my choice; but in the end even if the urge to do my own thing was there, the way that group was formed and functioned was to enticing to pass up.
An important thing to remember, if a player is a jerk in this game, your free to kick him from your team. Considering you never need a particular class.
Hell I'll even try it again using your "1 hour to get from 1 to 10". If it takes an hour to get from 1 to 10 and theres no leveling curve, then you can get to max level in 8 hours. What if 1 story quest, plus DEs along the way takes 15 minutes? MATH QUESTION! How many story quests would it take to get to level cap with no curve in leveling. (8 hours).
If need be, you can phone a friend.
Here let me help you out so you do not need to phone a friend!
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
Especially since the last I heard about leveling from an ANet developer they were looking at an hour or more play time between each level. So if that is only 2 stories to get to level 10 those must be some long and in-depth stories! HAHA
If you noticed I said one hour per level, not one hour to level 10. So your math question is pretty funny too since it has nothing to do with what I said! So even 4 personal quests would have to be pretty long to go across 10 hours worth of play time.
Also let me help you out here I do not direct quote people when I type I paraphrase what they said, maybe that will help you out.
Originally posted by maskedweasel
How are you so bad at this? You even misquoted ME! I said less CHANCES to make gamechanging choices, not less story combinations. This doesn't cover length of stories at all, just major game changing features... not "minor alterations" not "choices you make at the beginning" in the context of my post, its meant to signify chances you have along the way to change your path, similar to how SWTOR represents their story.
Please, stay to my initial post and focus on what I'm saying, not what you want me to say. I was focusing specifically on the chance of major changes during the story process, not what choices you make at the beginning, not what class or race you choose, I was focusing on chances of gamechanging choices as you progress.
You could have made a stand on the point they said, "AT LEAST" one, meaning not limited to 1, and there could be more, but instead you went on a tangent proving there could be lots of potential stories based on minor alteration from race, class, or other factors (of those listed, these are chosen on character creation). Not even close to my intended point.
*Sorry forum messed up and made my response part of your quote*
To the part in RED, I did not misquote you it is called paraphrasing look it up!
As for the rest; WoW did you even read the rest of the paragraph that you took that line out of before responding? Here is again:
With all these choices in the game, how many story combinations are there?
Thousands. Right now (the specific numbers might be tweaked in development), there are about ten biography questions, with three to five different answers for each. There are unique stories for your race, with minor alterations based on your class choice or other factors. Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. Plus, the stories for each order, which are separate, also have moments of choice. There are different stories for each of the Iconics, with which you can interact, and the story of the Elder Dragon of Orr itself. Really, the number of stories is gigantic, and it will only get bigger over time.
You say you are focusing on major changes during the story and not what choices you made at the beginning. So when did the stories and choices you get to make with destiny edge become start of the story and not during the story? Also when did the stories and choices you get to make with your order become start of the story and not during the story? When did the story of ORR and Zhaitan and the choices you get to make become start of the story and not during the story? Let me repost that paragraph for you again and show you the parts that relate to during the story and not at the start.
With all these choices in the game, how many story combinations are there?
Thousands. Right now (the specific numbers might be tweaked in development), there are about ten biography questions, with three to five different answers for each. There are unique stories for your race, with minor alterations based on your class choice or other factors. Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. Plus, the stories for each order, which are separate, also have moments of choice. There are different stories for each of the Iconics, with which you can interact, and the story of the Elder Dragon of Orr itself. Really, the number of stories is gigantic, and it will only get bigger over time.
Now if you would of actual read the paragraph you would of saw that most of it does deal with the changes during the story. And I did not go off on some tangent, and in fact I was showing you that you were taking that sentence out of context because the next few lines have to deal with that same subject. Plus they even say that the number of stories will grow over time, and you could infer from that the choices you get to make will grow with time.
So like I said in my original post great job taking that one line out of a paragraph and then using it out of context to try and prove your point of view.
I've had a much stronger experience with SWTOR, and it'll probably be a while before I have any experience with GW2, so that being said, I can only go from whats been said and what I've seen. Its not that I'm completely blind to what GW2 has, and I find your speculation to be intersting and something I'll keep in mind. Both games will likely have a large amount of content, just initially, I figured the focus of that content is where the meat of the game should lie. I figured for Anet that was DEs, while BioWare utilized story. My main reasoning behind the scope of SWTORs story, is that it isn't just 1 facet of gameplay, it encompasses quite a bit of the game. At this time, based on what I've seen, I don't see those same aspects in GW2. Of course, thats all subject to change as more information becomes available.
I'm not actually so foolish as to try claiming GW2 has more story and choice than SW:ToR, because that's what Bioware DOES. That's their whole thing. (Even though I think some fans overestimate how much Bioware stories really branch, since their storyline tends to look like a couple branches and little ones that weave in and out of it. It's not like a tree, it's much closer to just a few paths max, and they sort of weave in and out. Just like a Japanese dating game. )
... but I think from what the developers have said, that I feel pretty confident in saying that if they pull off what they said, that GW2 will have the most story, voice acting and choice seen in an MMORPG (that isn't named SW:TOR)
I find dynamic events interesting because they're not really the story of the character. Quests are usually revolving around the character. It's about you. It's your personal mythos.
Events are the story of the world, and people interact with them when and if they come across them. It's a little more organic, and less 'the world revolves around you'. It IS story, it's just a different type of story, and style of storytelling. They split a lot of their storytelling effort and staffing into DEs (1500 iterative events that are scripted and designed is a LOT of storytelling. They have some articles about this on the blog, and it's interesting to see what all they do), so if they managed to match personal story to personal story, I'd be wondering what the hell the SW:ToR people were doing with all their spare time.
Bioware was barely able to push 20 hours of gameplay in a single session for Mass Effect 2.
Most o the choices just changed your responses and karma, but the end result was pretty much identical no matter what you picked except for a few select instances.
Most of the decisions you made in ME1 had no gameplay effect on ME2, even the game altering one near the end of the game.
I think you're putting way too much stock in the KOTOR PR.
Aye, recently i walkedthrough ME2 again, doing every single thing i could, visiting every planet, doing every secondary missions and it took 28 hours with everything done - DLC excluded.
Bioware was barely able to push 20 hours of gameplay in a single session for Mass Effect 2.
Most o the choices just changed your responses and karma, but the end result was pretty much identical no matter what you picked except for a few select instances.
Most of the decisions you made in ME1 had no gameplay effect on ME2, even the game altering one near the end of the game.
I think you're putting way too much stock in the KOTOR PR.
Aye, recently i walkedthrough ME2 again, doing every single thing i could, visiting every planet, doing every secondary missions and it took 28 hours with everything done - DLC excluded.
I think thats a poor indicator of what to expect. nearly 30 hours from ME2, but how long did it take to go through Prophecies in GW1? You can't really compare the two. Not to mention BioWare stated SWTOR is larger than all BioWare games combined.
As for decisions, ME1 - ME2 you did get to make some choices that did matter, then ME2 to ME3 you have even more choices that will change the game, especially as the choices in ME2 changed quite a bit how the game ended. I've played through the game many times, and its not common for me to have the same characters die at the end. TOR is more like ME 1 - 10 with many choices cascading down through the gameplay. While a Jedi Knight might not see 8 different endings to his personal story, theres enough variation to change rewards, alignment, bonuses, abilities, and all that as you progress.
From what I played in rift the problem with dynamic events was that they were too easy and too fast. People just zerged, and most people were just trying to get in as many hits as they could so they could increase their share of the loot. To fix that problem you would need to design dynamic events where some cooperation is necessary and/or make them last much longer. Rift events normally are over within seconds. Phase 1, boom, phase 2, boom, phase 3, congrats heres loot.
From what I played in rift the problem with dynamic events was that they were too easy and too fast. People just zerged, and most people were just trying to get in as many hits as they could so they could increase their share of the loot. To fix that problem you would need to design dynamic events where some cooperation is necessary and/or make them last much longer. Rift events normally are over within seconds. Phase 1, boom, phase 2, boom, phase 3, congrats heres loot.
This may be a problem at release and few weeks after, when everybody are the same level and on the same map. We dont kno whow fast the event will scale. If it can scale in seconds then it wont be a problem, otherwise to say 50 ppl may zerg it in few secconds.
From what I played in rift the problem with dynamic events was that they were too easy and too fast. People just zerged, and most people were just trying to get in as many hits as they could so they could increase their share of the loot. To fix that problem you would need to design dynamic events where some cooperation is necessary and/or make them last much longer. Rift events normally are over within seconds. Phase 1, boom, phase 2, boom, phase 3, congrats heres loot.
Ye that is a big problem with Rift, but in GW2 those event are scaling with the amount of poeple joining or leaving, as well as their level.
From what I played in rift the problem with dynamic events was that they were too easy and too fast. People just zerged, and most people were just trying to get in as many hits as they could so they could increase their share of the loot. To fix that problem you would need to design dynamic events where some cooperation is necessary and/or make them last much longer. Rift events normally are over within seconds. Phase 1, boom, phase 2, boom, phase 3, congrats heres loot.
This may be a problem at release and few weeks after, when everybody are the same level and on the same map. We dont kno whow fast the event will scale. If it can scale in seconds then it wont be a problem, otherwise to say 50 ppl may zerg it in few secconds.
Remember, though: five starting areas instead of two, and a chunk of the population off doing PvP from level 1. Also, most events have more than one way to contribute, so you'll have some folks collecting rabbits, orthers killing wurms, others still feeding cows, etc. all in the same general area. It's not all centaur/bandit killing.
Playing a bit of rift showed me that dynamic events make people work together, but it doesnt make them socialising. Where oldfashioned group quests atleast require people to communicate... Which often is the start of a social relationship. How will GW2 make people talk with eachother during these dynamic events?
This is unfortunately true but forcing people to talk to each other before effectively interacting doesn't mean that people will talk more, I just means that they will simply interact less. Water flows downhill because it seeks the path of least resistance. Allowing people to interact effortlessly may not get them to talk but that is most likely because they are shy or just don't feel like taking the time to get into a conversation. That is their choice.
One thing I have noticed in games like Rift and Warhammer is that public style quest mechanics do lend themselves nicely to helping to develop a sense that these people out here are "on my side." They are a part of my wider team and I enjoy running in to help them out. Why? because they are my people. Even if it doesn't always, or even often produce a converstation I think this potential for a sense of team is a worthwhile by product.
Remember, though: five starting areas instead of two, and a chunk of the population off doing PvP from level 1. Also, most events have more than one way to contribute, so you'll have some folks collecting rabbits, orthers killing wurms, others still feeding cows, etc. all in the same general area. It's not all centaur/bandit killing.
Yeah, if I'm not busy doing PVP, I'll be collecting the HELL out of those rabbits. They'll fear my name!
Comments
I didn't say you couldn't, you just have fewer chances to make these kinds of choices.
"Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. "
Which is great, but each choice you make, from the companions you choose to the choices you make, to the characters sex, will change your outcome in SWTOR. Its not like I'm making this up out of thin air here.
First of all, when I was saying story = story, I didn't mean they were the same. I meant if we should compare, we should comapre story to story. Yes, crafting should be compared to crafting. They won't be the same in every game, some games have better crafting. But just because one crafting is bigger or one crafting is smaller, doesn't mean you should compare crafting+quests to crafting. No, you compare crafting to crafting.
Also, I follow SWTOR pretty tightly, and I remember something about the first part of the game is 50% story, while the latter half is much lower, something like 15%.
But again, you KEEP comparing hype to hype. You have no idea how long GW2's story will be, other than the fact that BioWare developed it.
You mean the very minuscule amount of personal story information? Let’s see what we know is that you can shape your personality, that you get to pick story options at the start of the game, and we get to choose what faction we want to become part of to fight the dragons. We have not see any of the personal stories in videos, besides the start, because ANet does not want to ruin it for the fans, and we have only got tiny bits of information about it in interviews.
But apparently this is enough for you to make a judgment call on the quality of story GW2 players are going to get compared to your unbiased TOR story fandom. I love it, this from someone that says GW2 fans misrepresent DEs. But apparently that does not extend to you since you can take the little bit of information and tell us exactly how it is going to be. Apparently hypocrisy knows no bounds tonight!
Plus I love your 2 story to get to level 10 theories that is just awesome. Especially since the last I heard about leveling from an ANet developer they were looking at an hour or more play time between each level. So if that is only 2 stories to get to level 10 those must be some long and in-depth stories! HAHA
OH my god this is getting funnier, what was it you said to me earlier? Oh yeah now I remember taking a piece of information either out of context or making a mountain out of a mole hill. The great part is you are doing it right here, taking one sentence out of paragraph to try and make your point sound valid. Now let’s see the whole paragraph that sentence came out of.
With all these choices in the game, how many story combinations are there?
Thousands. Right now (the specific numbers might be tweaked in development), there are about ten biography questions, with three to five different answers for each. There are unique stories for your race, with minor alterations based on your class choice or other factors. Each of the stories in the game has at least one major moment of choice which can alter the chain of events, making every story a different experience. Plus, the stories for each order, which are separate, also have moments of choice. There are different stories for each of the Iconics, with which you can interact, and the story of the Elder Dragon of Orr itself. Really, the number of stories is gigantic, and it will only get bigger over time.
Wow when you actually read that sentence in context it sounds way different then the way you are trying to present it. Good job TOR story fandom for the win!
I will concede the point until I have a chance to at least get more detailed information on the length of GW2s stories. As for the percentages, they've thrown out a lot of numbers in regards to story content... the percentages you are talking about could be the amount of questing thats available for SWTOR: where they said at the beginning (on your home world) personal story is about 70+% of the content, and closer to end game is closer to around 15%. This was geared towards the amount of content, and where the content focus is.
There are 3 chapters in SWTOR, the largest is your first chapter, which is likely about 40 - 50% then the next two would be about 30 - 20 % to end game as well, which doesn't include crafting, PvP, exploration, and all that other stuff.
I'll admit I'm more interested in SWTOR than I am in GW2. Thats clear, and yes, I have some reservations about SWTOR too, and eventhough I'm pretty critical of GW2 its really more to break up the rabid fanatacism I see here day in and day out. Still, thats not to say that I think everything is better in SWTOR than in GW2, each game has its merits.
I think you need to just quit now, you'll never catch up. For one, I stated 4 story quests... INCLUDING making it from one area to the next doing events along the way.. to level from 1 to 10. .... I think you need to stop, take a deep breath, and read my posts twice before you try and call me out. Not to mention this, again, was a hypothetical situation as a "for instance" not meant to be taken literally.
Hell I'll even try it again using your "1 hour to get from 1 to 10". If it takes an hour to get from 1 to 10 and theres no leveling curve, then you can get to max level in 8 hours. What if 1 story quest, plus DEs along the way takes 15 minutes? MATH QUESTION! How many story quests would it take to get to level cap with no curve in leveling. (8 hours).
If need be, you can phone a friend.
How are you so bad at this? You even misquoted ME! I said less CHANCES to make gamechanging choices, not less story combinations. This doesn't cover length of stories at all, just major game changing features... not "minor alterations" not "choices you make at the beginning" in the context of my post, its meant to signify chances you have along the way to change your path, similar to how SWTOR represents their story.
Please, stay to my initial post and focus on what I'm saying, not what you want me to say. I was focusing specifically on the chance of major changes during the story process, not what choices you make at the beginning, not what class or race you choose, I was focusing on chances of gamechanging choices as you progress.
You could have made a stand on the point they said, "AT LEAST" one, meaning not limited to 1, and there could be more, but instead you went on a tangent proving there could be lots of potential stories based on minor alteration from race, class, or other factors (of those listed, these are chosen on character creation). Not even close to my intended point.
No doubt, the fanbois here on GW2 are crazy. But the SWTOR fanbois tend to come to the GW2 section and pour their fanboism too. But with that aside, I have a quick calculation, and according to it, SWTOR story should be bigger, but not a whole lot.
ArenaNet said that each level should be 90 minutes in between. But the first few levels will have a climb to that 90 minutes. With that, since the story should also level you up every 90 minutes, it should take roughly (note I said roughly) 120-ish hours to complete the story. Of course, if GW2 has long cutscenes, that means the story gameplay is a lot shorter. The same is said for SWTOR, if they have long cutscenes, than the actual gameplay will be shorter.
Of course in BOTH games there are different stories from races, orders, classes, history, and of course choices. So we can't calculate EVERY story yet. But in the end, since GW2 as a whole is only a fraction involved in it's main story, that isn't a bad number, considering the rest of the game will be dynamic events and PvP. SWTOR has banked a lot of it's game on the story, which still only comes up a little greater than GW2, from my (speculated and roughly estimated) calculations.
Note: everything above is pure speculations based on what EACH company has sad. Both will be advertising their games to death, so take the comparison lightly.
Well, the average cut scene in TOR is about 2 minutes, not including open world cutscenes or flashpoints.
I've had a much stronger experience with SWTOR, and it'll probably be a while before I have any experience with GW2, so that being said, I can only go from whats been said and what I've seen. Its not that I'm completely blind to what GW2 has, and I find your speculation to be intersting and something I'll keep in mind. Both games will likely have a large amount of content, just initially, I figured the focus of that content is where the meat of the game should lie. I figured for Anet that was DEs, while BioWare utilized story. My main reasoning behind the scope of SWTORs story, is that it isn't just 1 facet of gameplay, it encompasses quite a bit of the game. At this time, based on what I've seen, I don't see those same aspects in GW2. Of course, thats all subject to change as more information becomes available.
True, with all that said. I'm going stop downing SWTOR, since I am on their forums quite often. *I feel like a traitor*
Anyways, I guess each person has a different aspect to the game that they like. So I'm not going to bother trying to change their minds...
True, true. I must say though, I enjoyed the discussion
Its tough when you have so many POV clash. I find that I often end up on one side of a debate even if I like the overall aspects that I'm debating against. I really am looking forward to GW2s story aspects! I guess the conversation sometimes just gets away from me. I should work on controlling that more. 
An example of socializing in Guild Wars 2 I find pretty interesting is groups that form over time and over several dynamic events.
Basically when different people enter an event and complete it, and another event is shown to be nearby those players very well might end up moving on to that event together. In the example I give players decided to band together purposefully in order to go after the next event.
This actually happened to me in the demo. Though I descovered the group much later on when they where arround 4-5 players. I was in trouble with some drakes and they where passing through on their way to another event. They helped me defeat the drakes and suddenly I found my self in a makeshift party heading to another dynamic event.
Dynamic events are incredibly fun, much more than quests and with the right amount of player interaction cool things can happen. But really like any interaction between players its up to the players. If I didnt want to follow that group its my choice; but in the end even if the urge to do my own thing was there, the way that group was formed and functioned was to enticing to pass up.
An important thing to remember, if a player is a jerk in this game, your free to kick him from your team. Considering you never need a particular class.
Here let me help you out so you do not need to phone a friend!
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy
Especially since the last I heard about leveling from an ANet developer they were looking at an hour or more play time between each level. So if that is only 2 stories to get to level 10 those must be some long and in-depth stories! HAHA
If you noticed I said one hour per level, not one hour to level 10. So your math question is pretty funny too since it has nothing to do with what I said! So even 4 personal quests would have to be pretty long to go across 10 hours worth of play time.
Also let me help you out here I do not direct quote people when I type I paraphrase what they said, maybe that will help you out.
I'm not actually so foolish as to try claiming GW2 has more story and choice than SW:ToR, because that's what Bioware DOES. That's their whole thing. (Even though I think some fans overestimate how much Bioware stories really branch, since their storyline tends to look like a couple branches and little ones that weave in and out of it. It's not like a tree, it's much closer to just a few paths max, and they sort of weave in and out. Just like a Japanese dating game.
)
... but I think from what the developers have said, that I feel pretty confident in saying that if they pull off what they said, that GW2 will have the most story, voice acting and choice seen in an MMORPG (that isn't named SW:TOR)
I find dynamic events interesting because they're not really the story of the character. Quests are usually revolving around the character. It's about you. It's your personal mythos.
Events are the story of the world, and people interact with them when and if they come across them. It's a little more organic, and less 'the world revolves around you'. It IS story, it's just a different type of story, and style of storytelling. They split a lot of their storytelling effort and staffing into DEs (1500 iterative events that are scripted and designed is a LOT of storytelling. They have some articles about this on the blog, and it's interesting to see what all they do), so if they managed to match personal story to personal story, I'd be wondering what the hell the SW:ToR people were doing with all their spare time.
Aye, recently i walkedthrough ME2 again, doing every single thing i could, visiting every planet, doing every secondary missions and it took 28 hours with everything done - DLC excluded.
I think thats a poor indicator of what to expect. nearly 30 hours from ME2, but how long did it take to go through Prophecies in GW1? You can't really compare the two. Not to mention BioWare stated SWTOR is larger than all BioWare games combined.
As for decisions, ME1 - ME2 you did get to make some choices that did matter, then ME2 to ME3 you have even more choices that will change the game, especially as the choices in ME2 changed quite a bit how the game ended. I've played through the game many times, and its not common for me to have the same characters die at the end. TOR is more like ME 1 - 10 with many choices cascading down through the gameplay. While a Jedi Knight might not see 8 different endings to his personal story, theres enough variation to change rewards, alignment, bonuses, abilities, and all that as you progress.
From what I played in rift the problem with dynamic events was that they were too easy and too fast. People just zerged, and most people were just trying to get in as many hits as they could so they could increase their share of the loot. To fix that problem you would need to design dynamic events where some cooperation is necessary and/or make them last much longer. Rift events normally are over within seconds. Phase 1, boom, phase 2, boom, phase 3, congrats heres loot.
This may be a problem at release and few weeks after, when everybody are the same level and on the same map. We dont kno whow fast the event will scale. If it can scale in seconds then it wont be a problem, otherwise to say 50 ppl may zerg it in few secconds.
Ye that is a big problem with Rift, but in GW2 those event are scaling with the amount of poeple joining or leaving, as well as their level.
Remember, though: five starting areas instead of two, and a chunk of the population off doing PvP from level 1. Also, most events have more than one way to contribute, so you'll have some folks collecting rabbits, orthers killing wurms, others still feeding cows, etc. all in the same general area. It's not all centaur/bandit killing.
if you save some ones ass or they save yours im sure it will start up a conversation.
This is unfortunately true but forcing people to talk to each other before effectively interacting doesn't mean that people will talk more, I just means that they will simply interact less. Water flows downhill because it seeks the path of least resistance. Allowing people to interact effortlessly may not get them to talk but that is most likely because they are shy or just don't feel like taking the time to get into a conversation. That is their choice.
One thing I have noticed in games like Rift and Warhammer is that public style quest mechanics do lend themselves nicely to helping to develop a sense that these people out here are "on my side." They are a part of my wider team and I enjoy running in to help them out. Why? because they are my people. Even if it doesn't always, or even often produce a converstation I think this potential for a sense of team is a worthwhile by product.
All die, so die well.
Yeah, if I'm not busy doing PVP, I'll be collecting the HELL out of those rabbits. They'll fear my name!