Gamefront aren't MMORPG people. It doesn't surprise me they're biased towards the PvP.
I heard nothing but great things about PvP in ToR until now and it's by gamefront so all in all it doesn't matter.
=S
i guess that goes to show that we only hear things we want to hear. there's a crapload of negative press on TOR, especially concerning its pvp.
MMORPG's for the most part dont have good pvp. but a lot of MMO'ers love pvp. so if the authors are biased toward pvp and expose a game for not having good pvp, then this is a good thing because maybe improvements will be made as a result of the raised noise. i dont want a PVE-loving MMO'er reviewing an MMO that has a lot of pvp.as well.
Hogwash, the problem is you can't balance these classes in any crucial way, there will always be weaknesses or strengths one class may have compared to another. Noobs bicth and moan, vets adapt, that's just the way things are. Don't give me some crap about x game has balance, it may have an illusion of balance, however, there is no balance to be had.
hogwash? no, i will not accept this. just because there isnt an MMO that is balanced in PVP doesnt mean there wont ever be one. "vets adapting" is a hilarious term for when you have to invest tears, sweat and blood into a broken class to get supbar results compared to a blantantly overpowered class that can be facerolled by someone who's missing an arm. vets who "adapt" tend to just leave without necessarily raising too much noise. happens in EVE all the time, happened in WoW as well to many highly ranked arena players. when something is broken, it's broken. and when a company refuses to address the problem by tweaking a few numbers, then it is time to go.
Yeah you can wait for your mythically balanced PVP in an MMO. The only way to do that is to take away classes as they are today, or make it like an FPS and level the playing field.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
i guess that goes to show that we only hear things we want to hear. there's a crapload of negative press on TOR, especially concerning its pvp.
Actually, that's not true, but it does show that we only hear things that we want to hear: apparently you seem to hate/dislike SWTOR, that's why you can't stomach hearing any good news when it comes to SWTOR. I'm pretty sure that when ppl will start talking negative about GW2 though, you'll be there and start denying and ignoring any negative stuff that could be said about GW2. People who are really objective can acknowledge arguments and facts from the 'other side' than his own viewpoint, and accept that whether he likes or dislikes a game, there are good as well as bad aspects to it
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This article isn't about some guys getting their butts kicked, it's about people jumping into it whitout understanding the "rules" of the game. And possibly, about guys disliking this type of system. Really, the (p)review doesn't say much about the actual TOR PvP, but more about the fact that people who enjoy more action-like playstyles may not enjoy the game, regardless of the SW IP. Whether the PvP will be good/fun/well-balanced remains to be seen. For me a well-balanced game is a game that offers you classes whose disadvantages you can overcome with your skill and where all available classes are just as viable in PvP, although they may fulfill different roles.
I can think of two games that, although not perfect, fulfilled my requirements. Now it's up to Bioware and Mythic to get things "right".
Was that link supposed to be a joke? Three guys who play FPS and think MMOs should play the same? Get real.
When an MMO comes out that plays the same as a fps my interest in MMO's will be rekindled and will be totally interested in it but dont worry I wont hold it against you if your not.
That's called an MMOFPS my friend, SW:TOR is an MMORPG.
No my friend sorry everyone seems to like to call their lobby based games MMOFPS's and also there is nothing in the term MMORPG that insinuates that it needs to be tab targeting nonskill based wait oncooldown dice rolls.It is just that people like you like to throw that label on it and also that technology hasnt come to the point to overcome the lag factor.
Well, I hope they are biased because they are not MMO veterans (really seems thats the problem). Preview is not really good overall for swtor, I hope to see more optimistic prevs from gamescom.
Originally posted by Vorthanion I would much prefer every class having a reasonable chance against another, like they did in Dark Age of Camelot.
this is pretty much how it should be. i hate to bring GW2 in this discussion, but these guys have set a fantastic foundation for PVP balancing. classes should, or even MUST, be balanced around 1v1. if youre running across the field to join your buddies and some dbag jedi-tard keeps intercepting you and slicing you to death, where's the fun in that? one CANT make a class absolutely useless against another class. you have to have the means of defending yourself against every situation.
i am also disappointed with ex-Mythic guys spearheading TOR's pvp. once i heard that, i instantly gave up on the PVP aspect of the game. WAR was filthy.
Lol wat? You actually take every opportunity to mention GW2 in your posts.
Personally I'd rather have PvP balanced around teamwork not around 1v1 where everyone can run around like Rambo thinking they don't have to work together because they can heal, tank an dps all in one character.
Originally posted by sonoggi
i guess that goes to show that we only hear things we want to hear. there's a crapload of negative press on TOR, especially concerning its pvp.
I could really give give a damn if you think SWTOR is the worst game ever made, but all I ask is you be fair in your criticisms. I have seen maybe a handful of articles of bad impressions. Where as I have seen way, way more articles praising the game including the majority of write-ups from beta testers on various leak sites. Hardly the "crapload of negative press" you want people to believe.
Hogwash, the problem is you can't balance these classes in any crucial way, there will always be weaknesses or strengths one class may have compared to another. Noobs bicth and moan, vets adapt, that's just the way things are. Don't give me some crap about x game has balance, it may have an illusion of balance, however, there is no balance to be had.
hogwash? no, i will not accept this. just because there isnt an MMO that is balanced in PVP doesnt mean there wont ever be one. "vets adapting" is a hilarious term for when you have to invest tears, sweat and blood into a broken class to get supbar results compared to a blantantly overpowered class that can be facerolled by someone who's missing an arm. vets who "adapt" tend to just leave without necessarily raising too much noise. happens in EVE all the time, happened in WoW as well to many highly ranked arena players. when something is broken, it's broken. and when a company refuses to address the problem by tweaking a few numbers, then it is time to go.
Yeah you can wait for your mythically balanced PVP in an MMO. The only way to do that is to take away classes as they are today, or make it like an FPS and level the playing field.
The original Mythic team responsible for Dark Age of Camelot did a fair job of it and a heck of a lot better than any game before or after it. Warhammer was joke to me. It was the most frustrating PvP game I have ever played. Just because it's not the same people helping out on TOR, doesn't stop them from emulating the one game that got it right for the most part, DAoC.
Was that link supposed to be a joke? Three guys who play FPS and think MMOs should play the same? Get real.
When an MMO comes out that plays the same as a fps my interest in MMO's will be rekindled and will be totally interested in it but dont worry I wont hold it against you if your not.
That's called an MMOFPS my friend, SW:TOR is an MMORPG.
No my friend sorry everyone seems to like to call their lobby based games MMOFPS's and also there is nothing in the term MMORPG that insinuates that it needs to be tab targeting nonskill based wait oncooldown dice rolls.It is just that people like you like to throw that label on it and also that technology hasnt come to the point to overcome the lag factor.
Other than the fact that the slower paced combat is more preferred in MMORPG's as indicated by the market.
Originally posted by sonoggi i guess that goes to show that we only hear things we want to hear. there's a crapload of negative press on TOR, especially concerning its pvp.
If you said it, it must be true right? Is this one of those things where people only hear what they want to hear because it makes 'em feel good or something? They ignore the bulk of what is going on because it doesnt conform to their already formed opinion?
"I have had my criticisms of The Old Republic in the past, but BioWare has set up what I perceive to be one of the most well conceived and rewarding PvP systems regardless of how you want to play your character. I'm seriously looking forward to playing the next PvP game-type, the Voidstar"
(Interesting statement from a publication that has been on the critical side. No?)
I wont deny that the OP's cited article, and the Rock Paper Shotgun article had some large negative points. I'd also point out that the things the two article had in common, and admitted, was that they were done from the point of view of people who dont play, and arent into the MMORPG genre. Shocking!
When you take some feedback from people who know the genre, and see what it says (even the IGN article listed here, and IGN has been critical of TOR) you get a sense of a credible article and a non-credible one. At least a reasonable person would.
I've read PvP seems tacked on to TOR from several places including this. Not surprsing for a themepark heavy game by Bioware.
Also, the reactions from the TOR fanboys (the 84+ comments) are just hilarious.
Everyone knows what the game is ; Sadly some people don't seem to realise this and will persist as you have with comments that are not really needed i.e (Stateing the obvious).
PvP is not a core part of this game and never has been ; Factional will be available and some limited open world PvP on some servers and I believe PvP servers will exist as well.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
"I have had my criticisms of The Old Republic in the past, but BioWare has set up what I perceive to be one of the most well conceived and rewarding PvP systems regardless of how you want to play your character. I'm seriously looking forward to playing the next PvP game-type, the Voidstar"
(Interesting statement from a publication that has been on the critical side. No?)
That one holds alot more value to me, im not a TOR fan for sure, but the review the OP posted was purly BS some of those was even biasd befor they playd. And hateing on that awsome smuggler character in one of the trailers >_<
I must say prefer pvp that try to balance 1v1 (dont confuse that with perfect balance even Counter strike dont have perfect balance) I can play team balance WAR that many complain about here is the best pvp i have playd, shallow mmorpg game awsome pvp game.
Was that link supposed to be a joke? Three guys who play FPS and think MMOs should play the same? Get real.
When an MMO comes out that plays the same as a fps my interest in MMO's will be rekindled and will be totally interested in it but dont worry I wont hold it against you if your not.
That's called an MMOFPS my friend, SW:TOR is an MMORPG.
No my friend sorry everyone seems to like to call their lobby based games MMOFPS's and also there is nothing in the term MMORPG that insinuates that it needs to be tab targeting nonskill based wait oncooldown dice rolls.It is just that people like you like to throw that label on it and also that technology hasnt come to the point to overcome the lag factor.
Other than the fact that the slower paced combat is more preferred in MMORPG's as indicated by the market.
More preferred or what you are force fed?Because I dont see any other types for you to put a basis on what is prefered and what is available,Tera is somewhat supposed to take a step in that direction and I have no doubt that there will be more and hopefully there will be a sci-fi game with guns that actually act like guns with hitboxes that need to be hit and not dicerolls to determine hits and misses someday.
Was that link supposed to be a joke? Three guys who play FPS and think MMOs should play the same? Get real.
When an MMO comes out that plays the same as a fps my interest in MMO's will be rekindled and will be totally interested in it but dont worry I wont hold it against you if your not.
That's called an MMOFPS my friend, SW:TOR is an MMORPG.
No my friend sorry everyone seems to like to call their lobby based games MMOFPS's and also there is nothing in the term MMORPG that insinuates that it needs to be tab targeting nonskill based wait oncooldown dice rolls.It is just that people like you like to throw that label on it and also that technology hasnt come to the point to overcome the lag factor.
Other than the fact that the slower paced combat is more preferred in MMORPG's as indicated by the market.
More preferred or what you are force fed?Because I dont see any other types for you to put a basis on what is prefered and what is available,Tera is somewhat supposed to take a step in that direction and I have no doubt that there will be more and hopefully there will be a sci-fi game with guns that actually act like guns with hitboxes that need to be hit and not dicerolls to determine hits and misses someday.
Sounds like Planetside 2 could be the game for you, though SOE is developing it so that instantly makes me weary.
To be honest I dont think there has been a more exciting time to be a MMO fan with so many different kinds of MMO's coming out in the next couple of years.
Sounds like Planetside 2 could be the game for you, though SOE is developing it so that instantly makes me weary.
To be honest I dont think there has been a more exciting time to be a MMO fan with so many different kinds of MMO's coming out in the next couple of years.
Planetside is light on the rpg side though isnt it?Hopefully Defiance is not a long time coming and I know Firefall is not an MMO per say but it is more than a lobby based shooter and it has rpg elements and dynamic events.
Was that link supposed to be a joke? Three guys who play FPS and think MMOs should play the same? Get real.
When an MMO comes out that plays the same as a fps my interest in MMO's will be rekindled and will be totally interested in it but dont worry I wont hold it against you if your not.
That's called an MMOFPS my friend, SW:TOR is an MMORPG.
No my friend sorry everyone seems to like to call their lobby based games MMOFPS's and also there is nothing in the term MMORPG that insinuates that it needs to be tab targeting nonskill based wait oncooldown dice rolls.It is just that people like you like to throw that label on it and also that technology hasnt come to the point to overcome the lag factor.
Other than the fact that the slower paced combat is more preferred in MMORPG's as indicated by the market.
More preferred or what you are force fed?Because I dont see any other types for you to put a basis on what is prefered and what is available,Tera is somewhat supposed to take a step in that direction and I have no doubt that there will be more and hopefully there will be a sci-fi game with guns that actually act like guns with hitboxes that need to be hit and not dicerolls to determine hits and misses someday.
I think the RPG part of MMORPG kinds of says that the game does indeed have to have classical RPG qualities to be considered such, so you need a loot-based game with different skills that are usually based on dice-rolls and different paths for character progression. The closest thing to an RPG/FPS hybrid would probably be ME2 but some people would hardly call ME2 an RPG so yes I believe what you're looking for is an MMOFPS but you seem to want one that's set in an open and persistent world, perhaps you should look towards Dust 514 or w/e it's called.
Sounds like Planetside 2 could be the game for you, though SOE is developing it so that instantly makes me weary.
To be honest I dont think there has been a more exciting time to be a MMO fan with so many different kinds of MMO's coming out in the next couple of years.
Planetside is light on the rpg side though isnt it?Hopefully Defiance is not a long time coming and I know Firefall is not an MMO per say but it is more than a lobby based shooter and it has rpg elements and dynamic events.
I guess that would depend on what RPG elements hold the most value to you as everyone seems to have a different idea of what a rpg is. I can't say much about Planetside 2 as there isn't a whole lot of info out yet, but the first Planetside MMO was purely an open world PvP game where you try and capture bases and outposts for your faction. As you level up you get a certain amount of points to spend on more powerful weapons, armor, gadgets, vehicles and mech suits. i'm probably leaving a bunch of things out as I haven't played the game in years, but thats the jist of it.
i guess that goes to show that we only hear things we want to hear. there's a crapload of negative press on TOR, especially concerning its pvp.
If you said it, it must be true right? Is this one of those things where people only hear what they want to hear because it makes 'em feel good or something? They ignore the bulk of what is going on because it doesnt conform to their already formed opinion?
"I have had my criticisms of The Old Republic in the past, but BioWare has set up what I perceive to be one of the most well conceived and rewarding PvP systems regardless of how you want to play your character. I'm seriously looking forward to playing the next PvP game-type, the Voidstar"
(Interesting statement from a publication that has been on the critical side. No?)
I wont deny that the OP's cited article, and the Rock Paper Shotgun article had some large negative points. I'd also point out that the things the two article had in common, and admitted, was that they were done from the point of view of people who dont play, and arent into the MMORPG genre. Shocking!
When you take some feedback from people who know the genre, and see what it says (even the IGN article listed here, and IGN has been critical of TOR) you get a sense of a credible article and a non-credible one. At least a reasonable person would.
I'm sure the ones propping up the link sited in the OP will ignore all those other links you posted because they were too fair and reasonable. Seriously, anyone that thinks the OP is a good article has a major hate on for this game and can't be reasoned with. The guys that participated in the article were pissed because the game isn't so simple that you can just jump right in at level 20 and start pawning everyone. You have to actually KNOW the class you are playing, what its strengths and weaknesses are and play accordingly.It's not like FPS where you can just jump in and be god on the battlefield and I hope that this game NEVER gets to that point.
The fact that these dumb dumbs thought they should be able to stand toe to toe against a jedi with an imperial agent just shows how ignorant they are of not only this game, but the IP as well as MMOs.
When the haters are able to bring an article that isn't written by morons with a FPS fetish, give me a ring.
Yeah you can wait for your mythically balanced PVP in an MMO. The only way to do that is to take away classes as they are today, or make it like an FPS and level the playing field.
The original Mythic team responsible for Dark Age of Camelot did a fair job of it and a heck of a lot better than any game before or after it. Warhammer was joke to me. It was the most frustrating PvP game I have ever played. Just because it's not the same people helping out on TOR, doesn't stop them from emulating the one game that got it right for the most part, DAoC.
DAOC was one of the few games that have done PVP justice in a meaningful impactful way. The game was built around PVP, with little regard to PVE elements (they were there, but hardly a mjaor focus). End-game was all about large-scale PVP. Back then blance wasn't nearly as important, as it wasn't a game about 8 fighting 8 it was a game based on 100vs100vs100. Balance was acheived through alliances, not class strengths or weaknesses.
Did you play BG's in DAOC? DId you play a tank class? Rogues raped you, easily, todays audience would cry up a storm over that.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Originally posted by ktanner3 I'm sure the ones propping up the link sited in the OP will ignore all those other links you posted because they were too fair and reasonable. Seriously, anyone that thinks the OP is a good article has a major hate on for this game and can't be reasoned with. The guys that participated in the article were pissed because the game isn't so simple that you can just jump right in at level 20 and start pawning everyone. You have to actually KNOW the class you are playing, what its strengths and weaknesses are and play accordingly.It's not like FPS where you can just jump in and be god on the battlefield and I hope that this game NEVER gets to that point. The fact that these dumb dumbs thought they should be able to stand toe to toe against a jedi with an imperial agent just shows how ignorant they are of not only this game, but the IP as well as MMOs. When the haters are able to bring an article that isn't written by morons with a FPS fetish, give me a ring.
I can see the infraction hammer coming out on this one...but....
Ever notice that we usually end up with a group of haters that hates on everything except for the theme that appeals to 'em? The kind of people who think that the only kind of game that is good or that matters, is suited to their taste? The kind of people who cant admit that a game can be enjoyable and fun, even if they dont enjoy it?
Now ask yourself just this one question: Would you really even want to play an MMO with them? Besides feeling bad for people who get stuck playing with 'em (and this includes the Drama Queens) I almost feel bad for 'em that they are so desperate to convince people they are right, or maybe it it convince themsevles that they are right, they cant form an intelligent argument, so they'll try to shape things or twist things to suit themselves. They are the anit-fanboy, and they dont even realize what a joke they are to the middle of the road fan who is intelligent enough to find info and form his/her own opinion.
It is what it is. I'm not siding with the IGN article, but it does give me food for thought. Right now, it looks to me like TOR is going to offer pretty standard PvP experience. (I'm waiting to hear about the PvP lakes though) and likely I'll enjoy it as much as I would other games.
Originally posted by sonoggi Originally posted by Vorthanion I would much prefer every class having a reasonable chance against another, like they did in Dark Age of Camelot.
this is pretty much how it should be. i hate to bring GW2 in this discussion, but these guys have set a fantastic foundation for PVP balancing. classes should, or even MUST, be balanced around 1v1. if youre running across the field to join your buddies and some dbag jedi-tard keeps intercepting you and slicing you to death, where's the fun in that? one CANT make a class absolutely useless against another class. you have to have the means of defending yourself against every situation. i am also disappointed with ex-Mythic guys spearheading TOR's pvp. once i heard that, i instantly gave up on the PVP aspect of the game. WAR was filthy. Balancing PvP around 1v1 is fail. Especially when you implement large scale, objective based PvP. Anet had a nice little PvP system in GW1 where you had test tube PvP in arenas. But they are gonna learn real quick that if you make a bunch of all-in-one, counter everything classes and throw it into a huge map... well lets just say the return of the BG Hero will be in full force with that game. If you dont need other people to hold your own, it just becomes every man for himself and you get many people ignoring objectives and just fighting in the middle of the road somewhere "because they can"
every fotm class in wow did that and it was annoying as hell. now just imagine every class being a solo bg hero.../shudder
Evaluating balance is silly... the game is still in BETA and like every other MMO - Bioware will tweak and rebalance and eventually get to a point where things are decent.... and then balance them some more after the game launches. That's the way these things work.
Evaulating the type of PvP... yeah it's the same thing you've played in every other MMO with arenas. Period.
Originally posted by Vorthanion I would much prefer every class having a reasonable chance against another, like they did in Dark Age of Camelot.
this is pretty much how it should be. i hate to bring GW2 in this discussion, but these guys have set a fantastic foundation for PVP balancing. classes should, or even MUST, be balanced around 1v1. if youre running across the field to join your buddies and some dbag jedi-tard keeps intercepting you and slicing you to death, where's the fun in that? one CANT make a class absolutely useless against another class. you have to have the means of defending yourself against every situation.
i am also disappointed with ex-Mythic guys spearheading TOR's pvp. once i heard that, i instantly gave up on the PVP aspect of the game. WAR was filthy.
Balancing PvP around 1v1 is fail. Especially when you implement large scale, objective based PvP. Anet had a nice little PvP system in GW1 where you had test tube PvP in arenas. But they are gonna learn real quick that if you make a bunch of all-in-one, counter everything classes and throw it into a huge map... well lets just say the return of the BG Hero will be in full force with that game. If you dont need other people to hold your own, it just becomes every man for himself and you get many people ignoring objectives and just fighting in the middle of the road somewhere "because they can"
every fotm class in wow did that and it was annoying as hell. now just imagine every class being a solo bg hero.../shudder
Eh.... I think both of you guys are missing the boat a bit. WAR & GW2 are VERY different types of games. GW2s system will work just fine, simply because they limit your skillbar while providing counters for every situation. This not only allows for each class to have versatility against every class, it also forces the player to pick and choose which skills they want to bring in order to be more or less effective against different situations. WAR / SWTOR uses the classic class system implemented by most MMOs, and such has to approach balancing in a very different way.
That said, I think it is very clear that the PvP in SWTOR will be very similar to that of WAR's, but the PvE should be a lot more engaging. I personally enjoyed WAR's pvp, but I know a lot of people didn't like it. It will definitely polarise the fans, I think, because it does require a very specific mentality in order to enjoy it. Many fans (especially western fans) enjoy feeling powerful / the solo experience. It's going to be somewhat of a transition for most players to go from PvE (heroic battles against multiple enemies of your lvl) to PvP (tough battles, where you most likely cannot go up against multiple enemies of your same lvl, and will nearly always need backup). It'll be a somewhat interesting duality that I doubt every player will enjoy.
PVP MMO report written by a guy who in 1st sentence says he is not an mmo person. Priceless. I aint SWTOR fanboy or anything but i can see how stupid that is. It's like asking The Sims gurl player to report on pvp in FPS games... .
No experience, no idea about MMOs, nothing. Those kind of articles should really be removed as they only show how stupid the writer is.
Comments
LMAO "I'm gona roll IA and wtfpwn all in pvp",WTF "you mean my melee doesnt pwn the jedi or the trooper, game sux!!!1111"
i may have paraphrased a little but thats what i got from their post.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
=S
i guess that goes to show that we only hear things we want to hear. there's a crapload of negative press on TOR, especially concerning its pvp.
MMORPG's for the most part dont have good pvp. but a lot of MMO'ers love pvp. so if the authors are biased toward pvp and expose a game for not having good pvp, then this is a good thing because maybe improvements will be made as a result of the raised noise. i dont want a PVE-loving MMO'er reviewing an MMO that has a lot of pvp.as well.
Yeah you can wait for your mythically balanced PVP in an MMO. The only way to do that is to take away classes as they are today, or make it like an FPS and level the playing field.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Actually, that's not true, but it does show that we only hear things that we want to hear: apparently you seem to hate/dislike SWTOR, that's why you can't stomach hearing any good news when it comes to SWTOR. I'm pretty sure that when ppl will start talking negative about GW2 though, you'll be there and start denying and ignoring any negative stuff that could be said about GW2. People who are really objective can acknowledge arguments and facts from the 'other side' than his own viewpoint, and accept that whether he likes or dislikes a game, there are good as well as bad aspects to it
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This article isn't about some guys getting their butts kicked, it's about people jumping into it whitout understanding the "rules" of the game. And possibly, about guys disliking this type of system. Really, the (p)review doesn't say much about the actual TOR PvP, but more about the fact that people who enjoy more action-like playstyles may not enjoy the game, regardless of the SW IP. Whether the PvP will be good/fun/well-balanced remains to be seen. For me a well-balanced game is a game that offers you classes whose disadvantages you can overcome with your skill and where all available classes are just as viable in PvP, although they may fulfill different roles.
I can think of two games that, although not perfect, fulfilled my requirements. Now it's up to Bioware and Mythic to get things "right".
No my friend sorry everyone seems to like to call their lobby based games MMOFPS's and also there is nothing in the term MMORPG that insinuates that it needs to be tab targeting nonskill based wait oncooldown dice rolls.It is just that people like you like to throw that label on it and also that technology hasnt come to the point to overcome the lag factor.
Well, I hope they are biased because they are not MMO veterans (really seems thats the problem). Preview is not really good overall for swtor, I hope to see more optimistic prevs from gamescom.
Lol wat? You actually take every opportunity to mention GW2 in your posts.
Personally I'd rather have PvP balanced around teamwork not around 1v1 where everyone can run around like Rambo thinking they don't have to work together because they can heal, tank an dps all in one character.
The original Mythic team responsible for Dark Age of Camelot did a fair job of it and a heck of a lot better than any game before or after it. Warhammer was joke to me. It was the most frustrating PvP game I have ever played. Just because it's not the same people helping out on TOR, doesn't stop them from emulating the one game that got it right for the most part, DAoC.
Other than the fact that the slower paced combat is more preferred in MMORPG's as indicated by the market.
If you said it, it must be true right? Is this one of those things where people only hear what they want to hear because it makes 'em feel good or something? They ignore the bulk of what is going on because it doesnt conform to their already formed opinion?
MMORPG.com:
MMORPG.com Hands On PvP Preview
PvP Interview w/Emmanuel Lusinchi
Darth Hater:
PvP Impressions
General PvP Info Learned
Gabe Amatangelo Interview
Gabe Amatangelo A&A
Ask a Jedi:
Player Versus Player In The Old Republic
PvP Q&A w/Game Amatangelo
Hands On The Alderaan Civil War Warzone-Marauder-Gunslinger
Gamespot:
PvP-Jedi Knight
PvP Interview w/Emmanuel Lusinchi
IGN:
IGN PvP Preview
"I have had my criticisms of The Old Republic in the past, but BioWare has set up what I perceive to be one of the most well conceived and rewarding PvP systems regardless of how you want to play your character. I'm seriously looking forward to playing the next PvP game-type, the Voidstar"
(Interesting statement from a publication that has been on the critical side. No?)
TOR Wars:
Jedi Consular PvP Impressions
PvP Q&A w Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo
Gabe Amatangelo-Forbidden Questions
Alderaan Warzone Impressions
TOR Syndicate:
Alderaan Warzone Impressions
Mos Eisley Radio:
Warzones and PvP
TOR Talk:
Tom's PvP Experience-Trooper
Tim's PvP Experience-Smuggler
Corellian Run Radio:
Gabe Amatangelo Interview
Torocast:
This is where I stand (That is their title)
Gamebreaker TV:
Episode 39: PvP Hands On
I wont deny that the OP's cited article, and the Rock Paper Shotgun article had some large negative points. I'd also point out that the things the two article had in common, and admitted, was that they were done from the point of view of people who dont play, and arent into the MMORPG genre. Shocking!
When you take some feedback from people who know the genre, and see what it says (even the IGN article listed here, and IGN has been critical of TOR) you get a sense of a credible article and a non-credible one. At least a reasonable person would.
Everyone knows what the game is ; Sadly some people don't seem to realise this and will persist as you have with comments that are not really needed i.e (Stateing the obvious).
PvP is not a core part of this game and never has been ; Factional will be available and some limited open world PvP on some servers and I believe PvP servers will exist as well.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
That one holds alot more value to me, im not a TOR fan for sure, but the review the OP posted was purly BS some of those was even biasd befor they playd. And hateing on that awsome smuggler character in one of the trailers >_<
I must say prefer pvp that try to balance 1v1 (dont confuse that with perfect balance even Counter strike dont have perfect balance) I can play team balance WAR that many complain about here is the best pvp i have playd, shallow mmorpg game awsome pvp game.
More preferred or what you are force fed?Because I dont see any other types for you to put a basis on what is prefered and what is available,Tera is somewhat supposed to take a step in that direction and I have no doubt that there will be more and hopefully there will be a sci-fi game with guns that actually act like guns with hitboxes that need to be hit and not dicerolls to determine hits and misses someday.
Sounds like Planetside 2 could be the game for you, though SOE is developing it so that instantly makes me weary.
To be honest I dont think there has been a more exciting time to be a MMO fan with so many different kinds of MMO's coming out in the next couple of years.
Planetside is light on the rpg side though isnt it?Hopefully Defiance is not a long time coming and I know Firefall is not an MMO per say but it is more than a lobby based shooter and it has rpg elements and dynamic events.
I think the RPG part of MMORPG kinds of says that the game does indeed have to have classical RPG qualities to be considered such, so you need a loot-based game with different skills that are usually based on dice-rolls and different paths for character progression. The closest thing to an RPG/FPS hybrid would probably be ME2 but some people would hardly call ME2 an RPG so yes I believe what you're looking for is an MMOFPS but you seem to want one that's set in an open and persistent world, perhaps you should look towards Dust 514 or w/e it's called.
I guess that would depend on what RPG elements hold the most value to you as everyone seems to have a different idea of what a rpg is. I can't say much about Planetside 2 as there isn't a whole lot of info out yet, but the first Planetside MMO was purely an open world PvP game where you try and capture bases and outposts for your faction. As you level up you get a certain amount of points to spend on more powerful weapons, armor, gadgets, vehicles and mech suits. i'm probably leaving a bunch of things out as I haven't played the game in years, but thats the jist of it.
I'm sure the ones propping up the link sited in the OP will ignore all those other links you posted because they were too fair and reasonable. Seriously, anyone that thinks the OP is a good article has a major hate on for this game and can't be reasoned with. The guys that participated in the article were pissed because the game isn't so simple that you can just jump right in at level 20 and start pawning everyone. You have to actually KNOW the class you are playing, what its strengths and weaknesses are and play accordingly.It's not like FPS where you can just jump in and be god on the battlefield and I hope that this game NEVER gets to that point.
The fact that these dumb dumbs thought they should be able to stand toe to toe against a jedi with an imperial agent just shows how ignorant they are of not only this game, but the IP as well as MMOs.
When the haters are able to bring an article that isn't written by morons with a FPS fetish, give me a ring.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
DAOC was one of the few games that have done PVP justice in a meaningful impactful way. The game was built around PVP, with little regard to PVE elements (they were there, but hardly a mjaor focus). End-game was all about large-scale PVP. Back then blance wasn't nearly as important, as it wasn't a game about 8 fighting 8 it was a game based on 100vs100vs100. Balance was acheived through alliances, not class strengths or weaknesses.
Did you play BG's in DAOC? DId you play a tank class? Rogues raped you, easily, todays audience would cry up a storm over that.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
I can see the infraction hammer coming out on this one...but....
Ever notice that we usually end up with a group of haters that hates on everything except for the theme that appeals to 'em? The kind of people who think that the only kind of game that is good or that matters, is suited to their taste? The kind of people who cant admit that a game can be enjoyable and fun, even if they dont enjoy it?
Now ask yourself just this one question: Would you really even want to play an MMO with them? Besides feeling bad for people who get stuck playing with 'em (and this includes the Drama Queens) I almost feel bad for 'em that they are so desperate to convince people they are right, or maybe it it convince themsevles that they are right, they cant form an intelligent argument, so they'll try to shape things or twist things to suit themselves. They are the anit-fanboy, and they dont even realize what a joke they are to the middle of the road fan who is intelligent enough to find info and form his/her own opinion.
It is what it is. I'm not siding with the IGN article, but it does give me food for thought. Right now, it looks to me like TOR is going to offer pretty standard PvP experience. (I'm waiting to hear about the PvP lakes though) and likely I'll enjoy it as much as I would other games.
i am also disappointed with ex-Mythic guys spearheading TOR's pvp. once i heard that, i instantly gave up on the PVP aspect of the game. WAR was filthy.
Balancing PvP around 1v1 is fail. Especially when you implement large scale, objective based PvP. Anet had a nice little PvP system in GW1 where you had test tube PvP in arenas. But they are gonna learn real quick that if you make a bunch of all-in-one, counter everything classes and throw it into a huge map... well lets just say the return of the BG Hero will be in full force with that game. If you dont need other people to hold your own, it just becomes every man for himself and you get many people ignoring objectives and just fighting in the middle of the road somewhere "because they can"
every fotm class in wow did that and it was annoying as hell. now just imagine every class being a solo bg hero.../shudder
Evaluating balance is silly... the game is still in BETA and like every other MMO - Bioware will tweak and rebalance and eventually get to a point where things are decent.... and then balance them some more after the game launches. That's the way these things work.
Evaulating the type of PvP... yeah it's the same thing you've played in every other MMO with arenas. Period.
Eh.... I think both of you guys are missing the boat a bit. WAR & GW2 are VERY different types of games. GW2s system will work just fine, simply because they limit your skillbar while providing counters for every situation. This not only allows for each class to have versatility against every class, it also forces the player to pick and choose which skills they want to bring in order to be more or less effective against different situations. WAR / SWTOR uses the classic class system implemented by most MMOs, and such has to approach balancing in a very different way.
That said, I think it is very clear that the PvP in SWTOR will be very similar to that of WAR's, but the PvE should be a lot more engaging. I personally enjoyed WAR's pvp, but I know a lot of people didn't like it. It will definitely polarise the fans, I think, because it does require a very specific mentality in order to enjoy it. Many fans (especially western fans) enjoy feeling powerful / the solo experience. It's going to be somewhat of a transition for most players to go from PvE (heroic battles against multiple enemies of your lvl) to PvP (tough battles, where you most likely cannot go up against multiple enemies of your same lvl, and will nearly always need backup). It'll be a somewhat interesting duality that I doubt every player will enjoy.
PVP MMO report written by a guy who in 1st sentence says he is not an mmo person. Priceless. I aint SWTOR fanboy or anything but i can see how stupid that is. It's like asking The Sims gurl player to report on pvp in FPS games... .
No experience, no idea about MMOs, nothing. Those kind of articles should really be removed as they only show how stupid the writer is.