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SWTOR you break my heart :(
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All Im saying in the end is that you can have it. Just give the system the bird and work around it.
Make a female, make him look like a dude, give him a male name. This = same sex relationships.
Is there something wrong with this? Im honestly asking here. Oh I know. You shouldnt have to go through this BS but there is a work around. Right? No? Maybe?
Well, I love the story telling of Bioware RPGs, they always move me! KOTOR, DA and ME, the personal stories were always so exciting and some even made me think! Alas, not many people can RP so well or do that so often these days anymore. In SWG I had a RP-husband, which was fun, but I doubt that is something many do these days. Plus a story has story surprises. In DA2 I was together with Anders, lol, and you can imagine given how it ends, how shocking it was, lol.
I loved to experience such things. To be moved by a story where I am sort of involved. I have the ability to feel for virtual characters. I also feel for movie characters. I know other people don't, for them a movie is just a silly fake and a game just pixels. But I enjoy that I can feel with the fate of fictional characters, because that is fun and entertaining. :-)
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
So how often do you suspect the game will refer to the player as their gender? I have no doubt it might happen some but how often? See we really have no idea. Its just the best solution I can possibly think off. Im only trying to help here. Really.
I still think this is a Lucas Arts thing. They probably have to approve. Did they do it in Mass Effect? I honestly dont know. I know they didnt do with Baldurs Gate. I know they did do it with Dragon Age. Dragon Age is the only game I know off that they did it in.
Maybe its just for the best to leave romance out of mmos. NPC romance anyways. Either that or they better be prepared to fully explore all types of romance. Maybe thats the lesson to be learned here. Beats me.
I understand what you're saying. SWG really promoted RP. Most MMO's out these days don't.. Even with RP servers, going to WOW, all you see on RP servers are griefers and perverts. Granted, I made the mistake of playing on Moon Guard server.....
I do understand where you're coming from, honestly i do. Heck, it bugged the crap out of me that I had to play as MaleShep to romance Tali, and this really does seem like a step backwards for Bioware. The difference, with an MMO is that there -is- potential for RP. Rift, for example, has a thriving RP community. Seems all the trolls decided to stay with WoW when it launched. Granted, with the popularity of Star Wars, especially amongst the younger crowd (Clone Wars has been both a blessing and a curse), it's quite likely that you'll have the same problem with griefers and homophobes.
Granted, I plan to play a Jedi that actually stays true to the code, so no romance for me anyway, *sadface*
Hm, I really considered many options. Cancelling TOR was a VERY tough decision, since the game due to many reasons meant so much to me. As far as games go.
Unlike some people, I never could play female characters. I need a char I can to a degree identify or have some inner part to identify with. There are some exceptions, for instance when it is some pre-defined char with a given story. Then I feel more like some invisible dude looking over the shoulder and then it doesn't matter what that person is, man, woman, gay, straight, martian. ^^
For me I really emphasizs how SWTOR is a unique thing. It is the first MMO with *personal* story. When I play RPGs with story with decisons and results, I try to play the decisions as much as possible as if I were there. I try to let the feeling of the virtual setting get to me as if it were real, because I enjoy the "mental exercise". So when I play Fallout or Arcanum or anything where I have decisions with results, I play as much as I can, as if I were there. I enjoy that. It is just "my thing". Now TOR was supposed to be first and so far only MMO, where I could also make personal decision with results, and that is why it would be important to not pretent to be a woman or pretent to be straight.
You see, in SWTOR there are many very difficult and tough decisions the player makes. Some have been revealed to us by videos and interviews. If I start to feel that the character isn't "me", the decision matters nothing. It kinda breaks the "magic" or illusion of the story. I was looking forward to TOR because of these story-moments.
In every other MMO it would mean little, because like say in WOW or EQ, when you are just told "go fetch 20 bear paws", the sexuality matters zero. But if you have played Bioware RPGs, you know that relationships are always an important part of their stories. I think TOR will have many straight romance storylines, stories the player is involved (like via a Companion) or observes, like the secret Jedi couple you can spy on. Such stories make a MMO with story and decison richer!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Are you kidding me? i've read the post and was horrified at first, i tought they made some big announcement like not releasing the game in europe, delaying it, limiting char creation, or going for an alternative subscription model.
But did you seriously made a whole post about not being able to 'screw' your same sex companion? and thats after making a whole post about how you play this game to meet people and bla bla bla?
Why would you even want to hava an "RA"(which apperantly stands for Romance Arc and it took me like 10min to figure that out), in an MMO?!
The last time i think i've ever played out an 'RA' in a BioWare game was in Baulders Gate 2, and i was what 14 there, and honestly i didnt even figure out what was happening untill i've read the 'after action' report. Oh sorry i did do the blue squid chick RA in Mass Effect too just to see what was the fuss about R rating the game all about..
If the fact that you are not allowed to have same sex booty calls in an MMO breakes your heart, then you really need help mate. Either get out of the closet, or go to the nearest pickup bar, get drunk, wait untill 10 min to closing time and grab two 5/6's(assuming your an 7-8 and the land your living in follows the standard hotness equastion for 3somes which is (youX2)/3+2) and the and just have a treesome, it is really not that difficult, even if you are fat ugly, or any combination of the above, if you are indeed above 25(or close enough to it) than you ought to know that alltought being good looking doesnt hurt, but if your out of highschool that wont prevent you from having sex...
For me atleast the companions and the personal story arc are really downslessers for this game, i plan to play it with my gf in hopes she would stop playing WoW for long enough to clean her system and come back to playing SC2 and MW with me if SWTOR turns out be shitty
I thought the romance arcs of KOTOR, Dragon Age 1, 2 or Mass Effect were pretty interesting. They are not your thing, and that is ok. Other people have other things in games they enjoy. I thought it was fun to experience these "what if" settings.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Elikal, you have my sympathy. I can only hope that in time the general climate will change in the gaming community and outside it, and people won't have to feel excluded because they're part of the minority.
I think it was a purely business decison, one the companies feel is dictated by the majority (or perhaps a vocal minority) of their playerbase. Sadly, in business, business sense has a precedence over any kind of noble goals or equality. If common sense results in loss of profit, forget common sense.
The DA franchise and ME(1) have been popular in spite of or even because of the same-sex option, but in case of SW, I guess Bioware/EA/LucasArts think this is one risk too many.
It's a pity because this offers less not only to gay/bisexual players, but also to players who like to play characters of different genders, like to RP, or simply like having options in general.
In a sense games are a good mirror to our society/civilization. If people can't accept and respect that homosexuality is normal IRL, it's probably too much to expect them to accept in a game.
Except for violence, of course. That's a special case, it seems. And flirting between siblings under certain circumstances.
It's very interesting how many gamers don't feel personally affronted or disgusted by an ingame option to kill innocents (like with that air lock decision), while the option to accept or refuse the romatical advances of an NPC (when the sex of the NPC and PC is the same) triggers that kind of reaction. (I'm refering to soem coments in that other thread.)
The first is a morally grey decision, to say the least, and the other is about as moral or immoral as heterosexuality itself.
Also, IMO it's more appropriate to say that the homosexual relationship is 'excluded' from the game rather than 'not included.'
The game will include the gender check of your character when you speak to romanceable NPCs.
The only thing that wold have to be included to permit the same-sex relationship are the different pronouns (and similar words that refer to the character's gender), no changes to the story or dialogues necessary otherwise. Even in DA (1,2) and ME, the changes to the dialogue were small.
Given the massive amount of voice acting and the game budget, that's a minor thing. I don't buy the explanation that the studio didn't have the finances.
I think it was a purely business decison, one the companies feel is dictated by the majority (or perhaps a vocal minority) of their playerbase. Sadly, in business, business sense has a precedence over any kind of noble goals or equality. If common sense results in loss of profit, forget common sense.
The DA franchise and ME(1) have been popular in spite of or even because of the same-sex option, but in case of SW, I guess Bioware/EA/LucasArts think this is one risk too many.
It's a pity because this offers less not only to gay/bisexual players, but also to players who like to play characters of different genders, like to RP, or simply like having options in general.
In a sense games are a good mirror to our society/civilization. If people can't accept and respect that homosexuality is normal IRL, it's probably too much to expect them to accept in a game.
Except for violence, of course. That's a special case, it seems. And flirting between siblings under certain circumstances.
It's very interesting how many gamers don't feel personally affronted or disgusted by an ingame option to kill innocents (like with that air lock decision), while the option to accept or refuse the romatical advances of an NPC (when the sex of the NPC and PC is the same) triggers that kind of reaction.
The first is a morally grey decision, to say the least, and the other is about as moral or immoral as heterosexuality itself.
Also, IMO it's more appropriate to say that the homosexual relationship is 'excluded' from the game rather than 'not included.'
The game will include the gender check of your character when you speak to romanceable NPCs.
The only thing that wold have to be included to permit the same-sex relationship are the different pronouns (and similar words that refer to the character's gender), no changes to the story or dialogues necessary otherwise. Given the massive amount of voice acting and the game budget, that's a minor thing.
If you had any credability to start with you lost it right here. Objects do not have feelings so your "drift" is absurd and absolutely irrelevant, or are you comparing gay people with objects? Why are you even discussing this, what does it have to do with you except that you obviously dislike people that care?
Well, I mean....what I was saying was choose a female and MAKE her into a guy. Literally. I dont know how deep the character customization goes, but if you can make a female look EXACTLY like a guy then I thought it just might work out. You may have the occasional fluke of some NPC referring to you as a "beautiful woman" or something but otherwise you could name yourself a guys name, look exactly like a guy, and for all intents and purposes role play a guy. I have to think at least one homosexual out there will try this. If not a whole damn lot.
But yea, if I was gay I guess I'd be pretty annoyed too come to think of it. The straight people get to have their stories done the way they like them but not me.
But honestly I wouldnt have expected them to do this anyways being its a Star Wars game. Kotor didnt have this stuff. And it did have romance in it. Just no same sex. So I kind of expected this not to have it.
I have no doubt they are probably discussing the public out cry to some degree right now. Thats probably not going to change anything. I do kind of hate to see you not get a game you were looking forward too just because of this. Maybe you'll change your mind later or something. But I suppose I do understand it.
I thank you!
I know EA, Bioware and LucasArts all got prices for a diversity-friendly environment! George Lucas even supports gay marriage and donated to the campaign against Prop 8. So I don't believe a second any of them dislikes gay people. I heard they even made gay romance content, but a third party involved (for hardware) has a veto right and veto'ed against same gender content on a very short notice. So the content does exist, if that rumor is true, it just isn't implemented. No clue if that is true however.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I honestly think that you're blowing this way out of proportion. If you think about it you get an advantage over heteros when playing MMO's. It's a lot easier for homosexuals to find relationships in MMO's. I've seen people cyber in games a few times. Always two male characters played by two males. So while us hetero's are romancing NPC's you can cyber the real thing.
This.
In a single player, maybe, but not in an MMO. All it causes is people from the player base to whinge about some thing silly as what has been happening about this issue.
Pick something about the game that you find important, then have it arbitrarily removed. I'm sure you'd not hesitate to make a very public show of your displeasure in the forums. And if that one thing was completely unimportant to me, I'd like to think I'd at least have the decency to not completely denigrate your perspective, even if I don't share it.
Empathy is a chore. Why bother when callous disregard is so much easier?
WHY AREN'T A ROMANTIC OPTION? OUTRAGE!
Why can't I romance a droid?
Why can't I romance that sign spot?
Why can't I romance that random rancor?
WHY IN GOD'S NAME CAN I NOT ROMANCE THAT STAR CUISER?!
Objects have feeling too.
Get my drift of how silly this issue is?
If you had any credability to start with you lost it right here. Objects do not have feelings so your "drift" is absurd and absolutely irrelevant, or are you comparing gay people with objects? Why are you even discussing this, what does it have to do with you except that you obviously dislike people that care?
First, it's credibility.
Second, you failed to see the point.
Third, because the OP started the discussion.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
And I also take issue with comment that bioware is practicing bigotry just because they aren't including homosexual romances in their scripted story. Does every game that includes one without the other practicing bigotry in your eyes?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
A story in a game is more interesting than just RP talk in a game. But thats just me.
I never said Bioware is practicing bigotry! :O If my wording seemed to imply that I apologize.
And no, I don't care about gay stories in other games, I am just talking about SWTOR. ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
This is not 2nd life, please for the love of the force - do not start cybering in the middle of the quest hub on tatooine...
And no i do not care how big your 'Lightsaber' is...
And i do belive you are quite very wrong, i've known personally more females that play WoW than males, and darn some of those crazy finnish girls are fineee.. I've met my current GF in an MMO(because both of us were in relationships it took us a couple of years of bumping heads every couple of months untill we went for it), and atleast as far as europe goes i do belive that that older population say 23-22+ is pretty even in terms of gender ratios.
I'm definitely joining the wrong guilds then. All the guilds I have been in are mostly male. With the occasional token female.
Okay. This is what I am getting out of this:
Elikal: "I hate playing this game with them!"
Me: "Who?"
Elikal: "Those guys."
Me: "What guys?"
Elikal: "Nevermind, you don't understand."
Well, yea I don't understand because at 37 I still like to meet new people in game or out. If they are immature I don't play with them since that is the mature thing to do and I don't feel bad about it. If they are doing it in a way so offenssive that I can't ignore it, then I report the bad behavior and then put them on ignore.
I think the biggest reason that I don't understand though, is because other than the link, you list no real reason you are upset. Could it be you are burnt out on gaming? Could it be that there are now too many things about this game that you don't like and finally can't put up with it anymore? Is it that homosexuals aren't being catered to in this game? Oh well, whatever floats your boat.
Good luck in whatever game you end up playing since I figure this means we won't be seeing you on the SWTOR forums anymore.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Or wrong servers, but the amount of females in mmo's these days is quite large accross the board, and just from a statistical POV i assure you there would by farm many more females than gay men...
Proof please. A link that actually proves your claim from a credible source.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Isn't that the point, everyone has different tastes and varied preferences. How do you think I feel, I have to share my game with a load of people that think a computer game is a platform for a relationship at all, suck it up and move on, I can't even believe this is an issue for discussion.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Wait !!! What ???? This topic is about not being able to have a same sex relationship in a starwars MMO ?
I don't care if someone put a gun to my head and tried to force me into a room full of computers to develop a game, I'd bloody refuse. No matter how good a job you do there'll always be people complaining about the most surreal and trivial things.
Personally, I even found the same sex seduction scenes in Dragon age a bit sad, certainly not something I would want someone to come in and see me playing. Is it really necessary to introduce sex to gaming at all? Aren't there specialised websites or, ye gods forbid, 'real people' for that sort of thing? If you're looking to an MMORPG for some sex-based escapism then you really need to re-evaluate your life and your reasons for gaming in the first place.
Well every multiplayer game is a platform for a relationship, doesn't mean it has to be a "romantic" one, but if there is human to human interaction, there is a relationship.
But and this is a big but, its about having a perset relatioship with a "companion" why would any one want that is beyond me, the companions in SWTOR freak me enough as it is, but lets say you did played an RA with one, so every time you log on a fully voiced companion would like come on to you and say - "Wow last nigth was amazing" thats just plain fucked up.
If the WoW naked skins were not enough, if there would be any amount of 'skin' involved in these 'RA's' i forsee a loot of sexually repressed teenagers turning their ships into a harem...
Close enough its about not being able to have same gender sex/relationship with an Non-Playable-Character...
I am not sure I understand you right. So you dislike when players have romances with NPC companions?
Well, first, it usually happens most likely in some instance. So you won't see anything of it. Second, SWTOR will have many romance options. Bioware has said that many times. But: they are all straight romance stories. Do these bother you the same? Well, you can ignore them. No one forces you to follow that storylines. ^^
Personally I don't care for sexual themes in games. Only love and romance themed stories. I have no idea how far Bioware goes with their straight romances stories, if they have sex scenes or not. I dunno why you are so surprised. Almost all Bioware RPGs had many romance options.
Again, no one forces you to participate in NPC romance stories. ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert