I think it will succeed due to the Star Wars label, and the fact that it ties into an established Star Wars game franchise (KOTOR) with mass appeal will boost it further. Bioware's reputation will help too and with a reported 3 million pre-orders it's already off to a flying start.
I think that the tried and tested, traditional MMO format won't do it as much harm as some think. Yes, there are jaded gamers who want something new and different, but new and different hasn't carried any games forward so far. I also think that the majority of gamers (not just MMO gamers) won't be too concerned about it being familiar or lacking in innovation.
The big question is how well will it hold up over time. The storylines seem big and plentiful and by all accounts there is plenty of content outside of them too. The one area where Bioware departs from traditional MMOs is in brining traditionally single player mechanics into an MMO, though and only time will tell how well this works in the long term.
But we'll see. The fifth week of release will give an idea about TOR's long term prospects, everything before then is conjecture and guesswork. I do think it will attract enough casual and new MMOers to sustain decent numbers past the first month, though.
I have no doubt it will "succeed". Even bad mmos like Star Trek Online are still chugging away. Im not sure what measure of "success" the OP means.
Anyways I suspect it will do fair enough. Its not going to bomb. I can say that. Im not convinced its going to be majorly successful or even a WoW killer (yea right), but its going to do alright for sure. Im not that interested in it right now, but I think the fans will keep this game going for years. Many.
This is still very successful, but there are people here and on the SWTOR forums that think it will have any where from 1 to 5 million subs a year from now. I just don't see that happening.
Without Asian market, and I don't know if that is even planned yet, I tend to agree.
Is it even opening with European servers?
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
I think it will be a financial success, but an artistic failure. The publishers and investors will probably get all of their money back from pre-orders and box sales, once the game is released, alone. I think most players will play for at least a couple months as well. On the whole, I think most Online RPG players are sick of the gear grind and the raid-or-die mentality that has pervaded the genre for the last 10 years. I think there are other games that will come out that are going to open players' eyes to new ways of doing things that will make them wonder why nobody else ever thought of it, like being able to raid from level one as a means to level up.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I believe this game will do very well IMO. Bioware and Star Wars IMHO is win win. I also believe it will do very well long term as long as they continue to pump out new content.
**The Raving Rabbid is Back and aiming a plunger....at You!**
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
...the hype is already at Failhammer levels and will...
When talking about what happened to "Failhammer" and comparing other games to it, there's the fact that it was poorly coded and executed game with visual bugs, animation glitches and bugs including often sliding monsters, sprite like special effects and so on, even a year after it launched (I'd propably still play it if it had smooth gameplay, working animations, sparky gfx etc, but no, all it manages to do is insult me with its quality). I dont see any of that in TOR, it has all that mentioned quite well working right now and on top of that it does not have yet another fantasy skin.
Yes I believe it will be a success in sales numbers, and propably for a while after that, then it's all up to the pace of Bioware adding stuff to the game, and not following Blizzards lazy ass path to recycle content in expansions while adding nothing new. If they add free space roam and meaningful big things like that I can see this game only growing after launch, if not, it deserves to wither away.
I believe it'll greatly succeed, and not just because of the Star Wars title.
You know there are a ton of gamers out there like me, that granted we are very bored of WoW and its multitude of clones, but we're not adverse to playing another MMO that has its similarities, yet better advances on the usual. Like WoW did to streamlining EQ, SW:TOR is doing the same to WoW and adding a bunch of new features:
For example, its all vocal and to me that makes even the most minor of quests feel more important and personal. Instead of rapidly clicking past boxes of text with usually pointless reasons for doing so, you're having a conversation that can and will have different outcomes based on ones attitude and demeanor. {Granted they won't be major differences, but it'll be enough to make additional playthroughs slightly different}
Everyone gets their own personal starship, and while we know little about it atm, it'd be stupid of Bioware not to allow us to fully customize it with our own colors and style eventually. This will probably be something that will take a good deal of time, but I'm willing to wait on it.
The space game, or tunnel shooter is a great way to relieve some stress. Very similar to Starfox, and I loved that game, plus there are difficulty settings, additional challenges and its been said there will be ways to upgrade your ship with better weapons and manuverability.
Huttball PvP ~ Seriously its about damned time someone did something other than capture the flag. Thats fine if there is that mode also, but I'm happy and it looks like fun with all the powerups and traps to navigate through as well as fight/dodge other players.
The class specific Lootboxes are a huge plus for me, and I'm actually game for wanting to engage in raids for once. One of the most annoying aspects of raiding has always been having to deal with the DKP BS, or never seeing the items drop that you desire, and when they do, always losing the roll. Now that won't be an issue and the time will be well spent.
Companions are also a nice feature and if they are as engaging to talk and play with as they were in the Mass Effect series, then heck yeah. Not to forget mentioning you can send them on diplomatic and material runs/mission, and assign them loot corpses and harvest node while you're on a bloody killing spree.
I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting about, but it all sounds pretty good to me and while I've had my doubts on occasion I'm still really looking forward to playing.
I definitely agree with many here that EA and Bioware will make money from this game. I didn't pre-order and I am not sure that I will play it right away or at all at least until there is some kind of trial (that won't be for a long while I am guessing.). The game breaks little new ground as far as I can tell. I am sure many people will enjoy it but I am looking for something completely new and this isn't it.
I believe it'll greatly succeed, and not just because of the Star Wars title.
You know there are a ton of gamers out there like me, that granted we are very bored of WoW and its multitude of clones, but we're not adverse to playing another MMO that has its similarities, yet better advances on the usual. Like WoW did to streamlining EQ, SW:TOR is doing the same to WoW and adding a bunch of new features:
For example, its all vocal and to me that makes even the most minor of quests feel more important and personal. Instead of rapidly clicking past boxes of text with usually pointless reasons for doing so, you're having a conversation that can and will have different outcomes based on ones attitude and demeanor. {Granted they won't be major differences, but it'll be enough to make additional playthroughs slightly different}
Everyone gets their own personal starship, and while we know little about it atm, it'd be stupid of Bioware not to allow us to fully customize it with our own colors and style eventually. This will probably be something that will take a good deal of time, but I'm willing to wait on it.
The space game, or tunnel shooter is a great way to relieve some stress. Very similar to Starfox, and I loved that game, plus there are difficulty settings, additional challenges and its been said there will be ways to upgrade your ship with better weapons and manuverability.
Huttball PvP ~ Seriously its about damned time someone did something other than capture the flag. Thats fine if there is that mode also, but I'm happy and it looks like fun with all the powerups and traps to navigate through as well as fight/dodge other players.
The class specific Lootboxes are a huge plus for me, and I'm actually game for wanting to engage in raids for once. One of the most annoying aspects of raiding has always been having to deal with the DKP BS, or never seeing the items drop that you desire, and when they do, always losing the roll. Now that won't be an issue and the time will be well spent.
Companions are also a nice feature and if they are as engaging to talk and play with as they were in the Mass Effect series, then heck yeah. Not to forget mentioning you can send them on diplomatic and material runs/mission, and assign them loot corpses and harvest node while you're on a bloody killing spree.
I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting about, but it all sounds pretty good to me and while I've had my doubts on occasion I'm still really looking forward to playing.
Your post sounds like it comes right out of my head lol. I don't know why so many people seem to say "it will suceed because it's Star Wars". Star Wars video games are not big sellers in either console or mmorpg space either SWG was an underperformer (for good reason) Bioware games are always among the top sellers as well as highest rated often so I see those being as large of factors as the fact that it is star wars.
I've also heard many mmo gamers who are glad to have a quality sci fi mmorpg as they are sick of fantasy be it high or low (as am I).
I too find myself excited again to raid after giving up on it very early in WOW heck I had even gotten to the point where I didn't want to run traditional instances because the design was so stupid in making people have to run instances so many times to get even one piece of loot.
I think many gamers underestimate the number of people playing mmorpgs who do in fact care about the story being told in mmorpg's. I am always interested in the story being delivered in every mmorpg I play believe it or not for the longest I was highly engaged by the story being told in WOW but as you pointed out once you read the quest the first time it turns into a "shell game" of clicking through boxes as quickly as possible especially considering no matter how many alts you made you were doing the exact same quests with no deviation at all.
One responder on this thread said he thought the game would hold around 350k subs which is crazy considering those are the kind of numbers SWG did at it's high point while many people are quick to say they think people are overestimating this game I say just as equally many people are underestimating this game I just don't see anything they are doing that will keep this game at under a million subs and I would think that even if I didn't pre order or wasn't excited for the game WOW still has many millions of subs and for all intents and purposes this game is going to be the other side of the WOW coin if one would ask me.
And lastly I remember being so excited for Dark and Light because it was the first mmo that I knew of that was offering gameplay that included companion characters
I would like to thank you guys so far for keeping this discussion civil. Please keep up the great conversation. And don't make personal attacks on people. Even if his/her view is very different than yours. I made this topic to have a civil conversation among fans and non-fans.
It'll succeed...while I think its a total care bear game that is nothing more than an rpg, there are tons of huge loyal kotor fans. That fan base is exaclty what bioware is targeting. The game will be fine for those that are looking for a solid rpg.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Honestly, I'm not completely sure if it will succeed! I love BioWare, they have made some of the best RPGs I've ever played. But the reality is that they are now "owned" by EA... Who, next to SOE, are the worst scumbags in gaming software history.
So this is just how I see it. If BioWare continues to work hard on improving the game, and fixing the bugs, after release then SWTOR will succeed. But if EA gets their slimey mitts into the mix, but cutting the support budget, or insisting BioWare do things "EA's way" - all in the name of greater profit margins... Then the game is going to FAIL!
I mean I've seen it at least a dozen times in the last 10 years. Game "X" comes along and it looks really promising. But then it releases (normally early) and it's like all the good programmers get moved to some other project (or fired!). The result is some bug ridden PoS that never gets fixed. Its subscription rates fall so no real end game is developed, or by the time it is finished so many of the players have left that one struggles to do all the stuff they made which requires a "team effort". Or, something completely "out of the blue" happens which just kills the game (some may remember Hellgate: London?).
End result suggests to me that SWTOR is more likely to fail than succeed. But since I want it to succeed I'll do my best to support BioWare until such becomes untennable.
At this point I don't know, if I thought peple just want a fun game to play, I'd think it would. Gamers these days just seem to want change, no matter what that change is. I think because of this TOR is going to be perceived far worse than it actually is. Making it only a minor financial success, and a marginal fanbase success.
I could be wrong sure, but when even the writers in the industry are sounding highly unimpressed with TOR here in the later stages, it's really not looking good for TOR.
Regardless of that success though, I think I'll enjoy the game for what it is.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
Honestly, I see this game having a slightly better success than warhammer. The more I find out about it, the more it feels like it's got the same design for pvp, and we've already seen that for MMOs, even the most solid storylines can only hold players for so long.
I think I'm still going to play it, but as some others have said; I don't really expect it to last me more than a few months.
What are the measurements for success to achieve the "Succeed" title?
There are 8 standard classes in the game, with over 200 hours of story. That's 1600 hours of stories and quests that are separate from one another. So even if the end game content fails and people run away from this game like the plague, there's still stuff to do if you're an RPG fan. This is all based on the assumption that they don't have end game content (which they do).
"Dethroning" the ten ton giant, known as WoW, is not a measurement of success. Perfect examples are EVE, GW, and EQ. All have very active, and dedicated, communities. SWG also had a very loyal community.
My prediction is that people will come for the Star Wars, and stay for the stories and familiar game-play. I know that I, for one, will play through all classes before I completely walk away from this game; just as I did in WoW. I saw what the entire game had to offer, and felt content walking away and saying "well, that was fun". Because, ultimately, that's what it's about, having fun, and I think SWTOR is going to deliver that.
I think also that the game will have a decent number of box sales/downloads, i don't think Bioware/EA are going to be losing money on this.. but the more i see, the more i believe this is a niche game, not that i think it will only have Eve online kinds of numbers, but i do think that after the first 3 months, the subs will probably level out at around 500k -750k. Bioware are not doing themselves any favours either by dragging out launch date notifications, by now they should know, unless there is some issue with the game itself, then i don't see why they havent given a release date, and even the beta invites are vague... the people who are planning on buying this game right now, may begin to lose interest if it gets dragged out too long, or get caught up in another game even.. hype too, is of finite duration.. hopefully their just aiming for a christmas release. If the release is pushed back to next year, i can see that causing more dissension.
OP doesn't really define what the criteria for 'succeeding' are so I guess it'll be personal subjective perception.
I think it'll be more successful than Rift or LotrO were or any other MMO besides WoW that was released the past years. However, if it'll be able to equal WoW's success, that remains the question.
A number of people assume that the majority of MMO gamers don't enjoy themepark MMO's anymore, at least not for more than a few months. However, they tend to forget that the majority have been playing themepark MMO's for longer than just a few months. WoW and LotrO had content that could be said to be done for the most part within a few months, yet a lot of MMO gamers played those games for far longer than that. The same for EQ, EQ had less features and more grind than current MMO's, yet people played it for years.
So, I think that SWTOR will have pretty good figures for its launch and the first couple of months after, certainly with an amount of content and worldsize that's many times larger than Rift. After 5-6 months though especially with the number of AAA MMO's appearing in 2012, that remains a different question. It'll be interesting to see whether WoW was a fluke or if its success is repeatable by other large AAA MMO's.
Originally posted by Phry
Bioware are not doing themselves any favours either by dragging out launch date notifications, by now they should know, unless there is some issue with the game itself, then i don't see why they havent given a release date, and even the beta invites are vague... the people who are planning on buying this game right now, may begin to lose interest if it gets dragged out too long, or get caught up in another game even.. hype too, is of finite duration.. hopefully their just aiming for a christmas release. If the release is pushed back to next year, i can see that causing more dissension.
If you take a good look at MMO history, you'll notice that most MMO's have a release date announced within 2-3 months or so. Rift was in January, FFXIV I think in July or so and so forth. Since they have their stress tests in September and they have stated that they wanted to see if anything comes out of it, it's to be expected that they'll wait with announcing a release date until after those stress tests, when they're sure nothing unexpected from it arises.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
What are the measurements for success to achieve the "Succeed" title?
This ^^
I did select yes in the poll, although I don't think it will retain millions of players after a few months time. I think a safe bet will be on the higher scale of hundreds of thousands, maybe a little over one million users after the first few months. Basically I don't think it will sink like a rock, nor will it be the run away hit success (over time, not just initial box sales) that EA, BioWare, and Lucas Arts hope for.
OP doesn't really define what the criteria for 'succeeding' are so I guess it'll be personal subjective perception.
I think it'll be more successful than Rift or LotrO were or any other MMO besides WoW that was released the past years. However, if it'll be able to equal WoW's success, that remains the question.
A number of people assume that the majority of MMO gamers don't enjoy themepark MMO's anymore, at least not for more than a few months. However, they tend to forget that the majority have been playing themepark MMO's for longer than just a few months. WoW and LotrO had content that could be said to be done for the most part within a few months, yet a lot of MMO gamers played those games for far longer than that. The same for EQ, EQ had less features and more grind than current MMO's, yet people played it for years.
So, I think that SWTOR will have pretty good figures for its launch and the first couple of months after, certainly with an amount of content and worldsize that's many times larger than Rift. After 5-6 months though especially with the number of AAA MMO's appearing in 2012, that remains a different question. It'll be interesting to see whether WoW was a fluke or if its success is repeatable by other large AAA MMO's.
I think that's the problem, they've played the same regurgitated content over and over again. In turn they've burnt themselves out on it. I'm not saying that's what TOR is, I'm just saying that's what they feel it is. I also feel regardless of if it's the case or not, that's how in the end they will feel as well.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
I think that's the problem, they've played the same regurgitated content over and over again. In turn they've burnt themselves out on it. I'm not saying that's what TOR is, I'm just saying that's what they feel it is. I also feel regardless of if it's the case or not, that's how in the end they will feel as well.
If you mean with 'they' the people that are complaining about themepark MMO's on these forums, then you're right, because I honestly think it's a case of projection here, the 'I cannot enjoy certain gameplay anymore, so this must be the case for every other MMO gamer that has been playing themepark MMO's for years as well'.
However, regarding the general MMO populace I'm more of the opinion of what Khrymson wrote earlier in this thread.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Bioware are not doing themselves any favours either by dragging out launch date notifications, by now they should know, unless there is some issue with the game itself, then i don't see why they havent given a release date, and even the beta invites are vague...
Dunno how much you keep up with other MMOs, but if ya havn't heard, Blizzard are preparing to launch their final content update of Cataclysm ~ 4.3 with the Deathwing raid.
I can fully understand why Bioware are keeping their release date as tight lipped as possible, giving Blizzard as little time as possible to ready their new patch. Blizzard has done this with all their major content updates when a new MMO was releasing, in hopes to win back subs that are on hiatus, or reel-back-in older accounts. {why not come and play our game where you have an already established character, instead of starting anew in another MMO!?} It might actually work for a time being that there are limited launch boxes of SW:TOR, and didn't Bioware even comment that there could be a chance at a month or more after launch before more copies could be available.
I wouldn't be surprised if 4.3 is damn near ready as of right now and they're just waiting on the SW:TOR launch date, then release a day or week before. And if not 4.3, then Diablo III, cause even that one has a chance at a holiday release too...{Still though, I think Blizzard are going to announce D3's launch at Blizzcon this year for Feb 29th 2012.}
Comments
It's Star Wars. It's Bioware. It's an MMO born in the WoW era of people that are newly aware of MMOs. Yes, I think it will succeed.
I won't be playing it (I don't think), but that has nothing to do with whether or not it will be successful.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I think it will succeed due to the Star Wars label, and the fact that it ties into an established Star Wars game franchise (KOTOR) with mass appeal will boost it further. Bioware's reputation will help too and with a reported 3 million pre-orders it's already off to a flying start.
I think that the tried and tested, traditional MMO format won't do it as much harm as some think. Yes, there are jaded gamers who want something new and different, but new and different hasn't carried any games forward so far. I also think that the majority of gamers (not just MMO gamers) won't be too concerned about it being familiar or lacking in innovation.
The big question is how well will it hold up over time. The storylines seem big and plentiful and by all accounts there is plenty of content outside of them too. The one area where Bioware departs from traditional MMOs is in brining traditionally single player mechanics into an MMO, though and only time will tell how well this works in the long term.
But we'll see. The fifth week of release will give an idea about TOR's long term prospects, everything before then is conjecture and guesswork. I do think it will attract enough casual and new MMOers to sustain decent numbers past the first month, though.
TL;DR - Yes.
When it comes out people will be surprised by the content. I was. All I can say really...
Sub to me on YouTube @ http://www.youtube.com/user/JJJK29isGaming?feature=mhee
I have no doubt it will "succeed". Even bad mmos like Star Trek Online are still chugging away. Im not sure what measure of "success" the OP means.
Anyways I suspect it will do fair enough. Its not going to bomb. I can say that. Im not convinced its going to be majorly successful or even a WoW killer (yea right), but its going to do alright for sure. Im not that interested in it right now, but I think the fans will keep this game going for years. Many.
Without Asian market, and I don't know if that is even planned yet, I tend to agree.
Is it even opening with European servers?
I think it will be a financial success, but an artistic failure. The publishers and investors will probably get all of their money back from pre-orders and box sales, once the game is released, alone. I think most players will play for at least a couple months as well. On the whole, I think most Online RPG players are sick of the gear grind and the raid-or-die mentality that has pervaded the genre for the last 10 years. I think there are other games that will come out that are going to open players' eyes to new ways of doing things that will make them wonder why nobody else ever thought of it, like being able to raid from level one as a means to level up.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I believe this game will do very well IMO. Bioware and Star Wars IMHO is win win. I also believe it will do very well long term as long as they continue to pump out new content.
**The Raving Rabbid is Back and aiming a plunger....at You!**
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
When talking about what happened to "Failhammer" and comparing other games to it, there's the fact that it was poorly coded and executed game with visual bugs, animation glitches and bugs including often sliding monsters, sprite like special effects and so on, even a year after it launched (I'd propably still play it if it had smooth gameplay, working animations, sparky gfx etc, but no, all it manages to do is insult me with its quality). I dont see any of that in TOR, it has all that mentioned quite well working right now and on top of that it does not have yet another fantasy skin.
Yes I believe it will be a success in sales numbers, and propably for a while after that, then it's all up to the pace of Bioware adding stuff to the game, and not following Blizzards lazy ass path to recycle content in expansions while adding nothing new. If they add free space roam and meaningful big things like that I can see this game only growing after launch, if not, it deserves to wither away.
I believe it'll greatly succeed, and not just because of the Star Wars title.
You know there are a ton of gamers out there like me, that granted we are very bored of WoW and its multitude of clones, but we're not adverse to playing another MMO that has its similarities, yet better advances on the usual. Like WoW did to streamlining EQ, SW:TOR is doing the same to WoW and adding a bunch of new features:
For example, its all vocal and to me that makes even the most minor of quests feel more important and personal. Instead of rapidly clicking past boxes of text with usually pointless reasons for doing so, you're having a conversation that can and will have different outcomes based on ones attitude and demeanor. {Granted they won't be major differences, but it'll be enough to make additional playthroughs slightly different}
Everyone gets their own personal starship, and while we know little about it atm, it'd be stupid of Bioware not to allow us to fully customize it with our own colors and style eventually. This will probably be something that will take a good deal of time, but I'm willing to wait on it.
The space game, or tunnel shooter is a great way to relieve some stress. Very similar to Starfox, and I loved that game, plus there are difficulty settings, additional challenges and its been said there will be ways to upgrade your ship with better weapons and manuverability.
Huttball PvP ~ Seriously its about damned time someone did something other than capture the flag. Thats fine if there is that mode also, but I'm happy and it looks like fun with all the powerups and traps to navigate through as well as fight/dodge other players.
The class specific Lootboxes are a huge plus for me, and I'm actually game for wanting to engage in raids for once. One of the most annoying aspects of raiding has always been having to deal with the DKP BS, or never seeing the items drop that you desire, and when they do, always losing the roll. Now that won't be an issue and the time will be well spent.
Companions are also a nice feature and if they are as engaging to talk and play with as they were in the Mass Effect series, then heck yeah. Not to forget mentioning you can send them on diplomatic and material runs/mission, and assign them loot corpses and harvest node while you're on a bloody killing spree.
I'm sure there is more I'm forgetting about, but it all sounds pretty good to me and while I've had my doubts on occasion I'm still really looking forward to playing.
I definitely agree with many here that EA and Bioware will make money from this game. I didn't pre-order and I am not sure that I will play it right away or at all at least until there is some kind of trial (that won't be for a long while I am guessing.). The game breaks little new ground as far as I can tell. I am sure many people will enjoy it but I am looking for something completely new and this isn't it.
Your post sounds like it comes right out of my head lol. I don't know why so many people seem to say "it will suceed because it's Star Wars". Star Wars video games are not big sellers in either console or mmorpg space either SWG was an underperformer (for good reason) Bioware games are always among the top sellers as well as highest rated often so I see those being as large of factors as the fact that it is star wars.
I've also heard many mmo gamers who are glad to have a quality sci fi mmorpg as they are sick of fantasy be it high or low (as am I).
I too find myself excited again to raid after giving up on it very early in WOW heck I had even gotten to the point where I didn't want to run traditional instances because the design was so stupid in making people have to run instances so many times to get even one piece of loot.
I think many gamers underestimate the number of people playing mmorpgs who do in fact care about the story being told in mmorpg's. I am always interested in the story being delivered in every mmorpg I play believe it or not for the longest I was highly engaged by the story being told in WOW but as you pointed out once you read the quest the first time it turns into a "shell game" of clicking through boxes as quickly as possible especially considering no matter how many alts you made you were doing the exact same quests with no deviation at all.
One responder on this thread said he thought the game would hold around 350k subs which is crazy considering those are the kind of numbers SWG did at it's high point while many people are quick to say they think people are overestimating this game I say just as equally many people are underestimating this game I just don't see anything they are doing that will keep this game at under a million subs and I would think that even if I didn't pre order or wasn't excited for the game WOW still has many millions of subs and for all intents and purposes this game is going to be the other side of the WOW coin if one would ask me.
And lastly I remember being so excited for Dark and Light because it was the first mmo that I knew of that was offering gameplay that included companion characters
I would like to thank you guys so far for keeping this discussion civil. Please keep up the great conversation. And don't make personal attacks on people. Even if his/her view is very different than yours. I made this topic to have a civil conversation among fans and non-fans.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
It'll succeed...while I think its a total care bear game that is nothing more than an rpg, there are tons of huge loyal kotor fans. That fan base is exaclty what bioware is targeting. The game will be fine for those that are looking for a solid rpg.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Honestly, I'm not completely sure if it will succeed! I love BioWare, they have made some of the best RPGs I've ever played. But the reality is that they are now "owned" by EA... Who, next to SOE, are the worst scumbags in gaming software history.
So this is just how I see it. If BioWare continues to work hard on improving the game, and fixing the bugs, after release then SWTOR will succeed. But if EA gets their slimey mitts into the mix, but cutting the support budget, or insisting BioWare do things "EA's way" - all in the name of greater profit margins... Then the game is going to FAIL!
I mean I've seen it at least a dozen times in the last 10 years. Game "X" comes along and it looks really promising. But then it releases (normally early) and it's like all the good programmers get moved to some other project (or fired!). The result is some bug ridden PoS that never gets fixed. Its subscription rates fall so no real end game is developed, or by the time it is finished so many of the players have left that one struggles to do all the stuff they made which requires a "team effort". Or, something completely "out of the blue" happens which just kills the game (some may remember Hellgate: London?).
End result suggests to me that SWTOR is more likely to fail than succeed. But since I want it to succeed I'll do my best to support BioWare until such becomes untennable.
At this point I don't know, if I thought peple just want a fun game to play, I'd think it would. Gamers these days just seem to want change, no matter what that change is. I think because of this TOR is going to be perceived far worse than it actually is. Making it only a minor financial success, and a marginal fanbase success.
I could be wrong sure, but when even the writers in the industry are sounding highly unimpressed with TOR here in the later stages, it's really not looking good for TOR.
Regardless of that success though, I think I'll enjoy the game for what it is.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Honestly, I see this game having a slightly better success than warhammer. The more I find out about it, the more it feels like it's got the same design for pvp, and we've already seen that for MMOs, even the most solid storylines can only hold players for so long.
I think I'm still going to play it, but as some others have said; I don't really expect it to last me more than a few months.
it's safe to say that ToR is the MMo that we've all been waiting for.
What are the measurements for success to achieve the "Succeed" title?
There are 8 standard classes in the game, with over 200 hours of story. That's 1600 hours of stories and quests that are separate from one another. So even if the end game content fails and people run away from this game like the plague, there's still stuff to do if you're an RPG fan. This is all based on the assumption that they don't have end game content (which they do).
"Dethroning" the ten ton giant, known as WoW, is not a measurement of success. Perfect examples are EVE, GW, and EQ. All have very active, and dedicated, communities. SWG also had a very loyal community.
My prediction is that people will come for the Star Wars, and stay for the stories and familiar game-play. I know that I, for one, will play through all classes before I completely walk away from this game; just as I did in WoW. I saw what the entire game had to offer, and felt content walking away and saying "well, that was fun". Because, ultimately, that's what it's about, having fun, and I think SWTOR is going to deliver that.
I think also that the game will have a decent number of box sales/downloads, i don't think Bioware/EA are going to be losing money on this.. but the more i see, the more i believe this is a niche game, not that i think it will only have Eve online kinds of numbers, but i do think that after the first 3 months, the subs will probably level out at around 500k -750k. Bioware are not doing themselves any favours either by dragging out launch date notifications, by now they should know, unless there is some issue with the game itself, then i don't see why they havent given a release date, and even the beta invites are vague... the people who are planning on buying this game right now, may begin to lose interest if it gets dragged out too long, or get caught up in another game even.. hype too, is of finite duration.. hopefully their just aiming for a christmas release. If the release is pushed back to next year, i can see that causing more dissension.
OP doesn't really define what the criteria for 'succeeding' are so I guess it'll be personal subjective perception.
I think it'll be more successful than Rift or LotrO were or any other MMO besides WoW that was released the past years. However, if it'll be able to equal WoW's success, that remains the question.
A number of people assume that the majority of MMO gamers don't enjoy themepark MMO's anymore, at least not for more than a few months. However, they tend to forget that the majority have been playing themepark MMO's for longer than just a few months. WoW and LotrO had content that could be said to be done for the most part within a few months, yet a lot of MMO gamers played those games for far longer than that. The same for EQ, EQ had less features and more grind than current MMO's, yet people played it for years.
So, I think that SWTOR will have pretty good figures for its launch and the first couple of months after, certainly with an amount of content and worldsize that's many times larger than Rift. After 5-6 months though especially with the number of AAA MMO's appearing in 2012, that remains a different question. It'll be interesting to see whether WoW was a fluke or if its success is repeatable by other large AAA MMO's.
If you take a good look at MMO history, you'll notice that most MMO's have a release date announced within 2-3 months or so. Rift was in January, FFXIV I think in July or so and so forth. Since they have their stress tests in September and they have stated that they wanted to see if anything comes out of it, it's to be expected that they'll wait with announcing a release date until after those stress tests, when they're sure nothing unexpected from it arises.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This ^^
I did select yes in the poll, although I don't think it will retain millions of players after a few months time. I think a safe bet will be on the higher scale of hundreds of thousands, maybe a little over one million users after the first few months. Basically I don't think it will sink like a rock, nor will it be the run away hit success (over time, not just initial box sales) that EA, BioWare, and Lucas Arts hope for.
It will sell a lot of boxes. As for how long people stick around, well that depends on how long the novelty of WoW with a Star Wars reskin lasts.
I think that's the problem, they've played the same regurgitated content over and over again. In turn they've burnt themselves out on it. I'm not saying that's what TOR is, I'm just saying that's what they feel it is. I also feel regardless of if it's the case or not, that's how in the end they will feel as well.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
If you mean with 'they' the people that are complaining about themepark MMO's on these forums, then you're right, because I honestly think it's a case of projection here, the 'I cannot enjoy certain gameplay anymore, so this must be the case for every other MMO gamer that has been playing themepark MMO's for years as well'.
However, regarding the general MMO populace I'm more of the opinion of what Khrymson wrote earlier in this thread.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Dunno how much you keep up with other MMOs, but if ya havn't heard, Blizzard are preparing to launch their final content update of Cataclysm ~ 4.3 with the Deathwing raid.
I can fully understand why Bioware are keeping their release date as tight lipped as possible, giving Blizzard as little time as possible to ready their new patch. Blizzard has done this with all their major content updates when a new MMO was releasing, in hopes to win back subs that are on hiatus, or reel-back-in older accounts. {why not come and play our game where you have an already established character, instead of starting anew in another MMO!?} It might actually work for a time being that there are limited launch boxes of SW:TOR, and didn't Bioware even comment that there could be a chance at a month or more after launch before more copies could be available.
I wouldn't be surprised if 4.3 is damn near ready as of right now and they're just waiting on the SW:TOR launch date, then release a day or week before. And if not 4.3, then Diablo III, cause even that one has a chance at a holiday release too...{Still though, I think Blizzard are going to announce D3's launch at Blizzcon this year for Feb 29th 2012.}
Anyway...