This is why people have such antipathy for the "harsh penalty" crowd. The overt elitism in the post above is sadly common in this group of players.
News flash:
The majority of people play games to have fun. Period. Not to simulate reality, not to "become better players" (whatever that means), and certanly not to adhere to a particular "play style". If the MMO community really did want harsher death penalties, developers would be releasing games to meet this demand. That few (if any) "modern" MMOs are being released with harsh death penalties, speaks volumes...
This is why people have such antipathy for the "harsh penalty" crowd. The overt elitism in the post above is sadly common in this group of players.
News flash:
The majority of people play games to have fun. Period. Not to simulate reality, not to "become better players" (whatever that means), and certanly not to adhere to a particular "play style". If the MMO community really did want harsher death penalties, developers would be releasing games to meet this demand. That few (if any) "modern" MMOs are being released with harsh death penalties, speaks volumes...
Thank you for proving my point.
Thank you for proving his point.
Thanks for proving my point even further.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Not that these one sentence replies aren't fun but what "IS" your point? That your way of playing is some how "better"? That harsh death penalties make you an "uber" player?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
Correct, for you. Not everyone else. Just the point I was trying to get across. And communities in MMOs are fickle things. Regardless of game style (P2P, F2P, Full PvP, themepark) the only correlation I have been able to come up with in 11 years of playing MMOs is that the size of the player base is directly proportional to the amount of crap in general chat. The best communities are the ones with small, tight-knit, playerbases...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Self inflicted deathpennalties dont work..... Because other people taking stupid risks would kill me... I would love to see a challenging AAA game with the orriginal EQ deathpennalty.. And people that cant live with such a deathpennalty should not play that game.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
Correct, for you. Not everyone else. Just the point I was trying to get across. And communities in MMOs are fickle things. Regardless of game style (P2P, F2P, Full PvP, themepark) the only correlation I have been able to come up with in 11 years of playing MMOs is that the size of the player base is directly proportional to the amount of crap in general chat. The best communities are the ones with small, tight-knit, playerbases...
Well from my experience I've played ones with harsh and ones with no death penalty, despite the size of the playerbase communities in games with harsh penalties have been way better, helpful and overall very! knowledgeable.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
Correct, for you. Not everyone else. Just the point I was trying to get across. And communities in MMOs are fickle things. Regardless of game style (P2P, F2P, Full PvP, themepark) the only correlation I have been able to come up with in 11 years of playing MMOs is that the size of the player base is directly proportional to the amount of crap in general chat. The best communities are the ones with small, tight-knit, playerbases...
Well from my experience I've played ones with harsh and ones with no death penalty, despite the size of the playerbase communities in games with harsh penalties have been way better, helpful and overall very! knowledgeable.
From my experience, games with harsh penalties are the cradle of elitist self-imposed "good" players, who take pride is belittling others, who think that being a "good" player is a very important issue of pride and almighty self-gratification.
From my experience, games with lesser penalties can be anything from good to bad, depending on the game.
From my experience, most people play games for fun, and do not care if they are good or bad in the eyes of the elitists.
From my experience, ... your experience is alien to many players.
Developers generally prefer a larger playerbase and this suggestion will limit the playerbase considerably . One is perfectly entitled to believe whatever they wish about their own gaming prowess it does not necessarily translate into anything of significance unless it can generate revenue to the company producing the game. Until this form of gameplay can generate success it will be very niche .I have no idea actually about how many people would support this type of gaming and if any companies who have the resources to investigate this have done so . We can wait and see what the future holds.
However i played Everquest from the very beginning fear of losing my corpse completely has made a difference in my playstyle but I cannot really say that it would be any different had I started in WoW. Our characters untimately determine how we behave in any game.
The majority of people play games to have fun. Period. Not to simulate reality, not to "become better players" (whatever that means), and certanly not to adhere to a particular "play style". If the MMO community really did want harsher death penalties, developers would be releasing games to meet this demand. That few (if any) "modern" MMOs are being released with harsh death penalties, speaks volumes...
I love harsh death penalties and the entire logic behind this thread is absent to me. Maybe its because I only PvP, however the beautiful thing about death penalties is making other people suffer them. Why on earth would I willingly inflict one on myself? I love barely getting away with my life and knowing how angry the other person is. I love killing people repeatedly knowing they are losing hours/days worth of w/e it is they lose, whether it be gear or xp or money. Call me an elitest, I dont care, the only people who cry about harsh and penalizing death's are the scrubs doing the dieing. Sucks to be the little fish in the food chain, but it sure is fun being the shark.
Ah man, your quasi-troll threads are always priceless Exposed .
Anyway, I think it should be obvious that different games are made to cater to different tastes. Some games have a harsh DP, some don't. Play whatever you enjoy.
I enjoy games both without or with a harsh DP, they just bring different things to the table for me that are both enjoyable. If you hate harsh DP so much, then you have plenty of alternative games available to you.
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
Correct, for you. Not everyone else. Just the point I was trying to get across. And communities in MMOs are fickle things. Regardless of game style (P2P, F2P, Full PvP, themepark) the only correlation I have been able to come up with in 11 years of playing MMOs is that the size of the player base is directly proportional to the amount of crap in general chat. The best communities are the ones with small, tight-knit, playerbases...
Well from my experience I've played ones with harsh and ones with no death penalty, despite the size of the playerbase communities in games with harsh penalties have been way better, helpful and overall very! knowledgeable.
You realize, don't you, that the reason you feel that those types of communities were "better" is because they likely shared your outlook on gaming. Like-minded people tend to get along better with one another than with those who don't share their point of view. It's human nature.
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
Correct, for you. Not everyone else. Just the point I was trying to get across. And communities in MMOs are fickle things. Regardless of game style (P2P, F2P, Full PvP, themepark) the only correlation I have been able to come up with in 11 years of playing MMOs is that the size of the player base is directly proportional to the amount of crap in general chat. The best communities are the ones with small, tight-knit, playerbases...
Well from my experience I've played ones with harsh and ones with no death penalty, despite the size of the playerbase communities in games with harsh penalties have been way better, helpful and overall very! knowledgeable.
You realize, don't you, that the reason you feel that those types of communities were "better" is because they likely shared your outlook on gaming. Like-minded people tend to get along better with one another than with those who don't share their point of view. It's human nature.
True that and thats why I am a huge fan of different games for different people and hating the idea of one game for everyone.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Something occurred to me while reading all these boards and forums that if an option were to be placed individually on everyone's account where the game would delete your character everytime you died and you have to agree to it three times before the option was effective ,there would still be folk who would come on the forums and scream that they were not given a chance to change their minds after their character was deleted .
Unfortunately the human mind is very fickle and even when we decide something we may well decide at some point that is not what we want . So often we want the power to decide taken away from us . Strange but this here is an example of it.
You illustrate perfectly why an option wont work. The game needs to be designed from the ground up with perma-death in mind.
I'd dare say it is virtually impossible to grind an entire set of pvp gear in rift or wow without dying because the game is designed around you dying every 2-5 minutes. You cannot raid through tiers and not die again because the game is designed around you dieing at least as you are learning the encounters.
In games with perma-death or even severe penalty such as Vanguard where you leave a corpse down at the bottom of a fully respawned dungeon, there are strategies you employ to ... not die. You don't bring PuGs for Ragnaros / Hammergnell. You dont even enter these dungeons until you have met certain requirements. There are also abilities in these games which make it possible for you to avoid death such as evacs and FD/Ressers to name a few.
This is just another aspect of community building that has been destroyed by instant gratification / entitlement gaming, and no cute little check box or BS post about deleting characters when you die is going to change it.
It's actually less about perma-death and more about real MMO gaming for a lot of people.
You do realize that the "cute checkbox" option is voiced out basically because the harsh death penalty fans keep asking the option for mainstream themepark mmorpgs. I wouldnt even comment on the matter if the discussion was kept at the correct camp and about games that support it. As long as people keep asking the big penalty to games that does not support it, the "cute checkbox" is the best bet. Better option ofcourse is to just play a game that has mechanics the players wants and stop asking things to games that are not intented.
I dont see people asking for a cute checkbox. I see people asking for a harsh death penalty. The checkbox is NOT the best option. It is not even a good option. It is a stupid knee jerk reaction option dreampt up to try to pacify, not satisfy. A perma-death penatly in warcraft is just asinine. There is no point to it. The game is design so far on the opposite end of the spectrum, it would never work. Warcraft could do with a much harsher penalty, but thats not going to happen either because they are committing to things like "puggable raids" now .. /facepalm
You said people dont ask for checkbox, but a harsh death penalty. Then you say this feature does not suit at all a mainstream themepark mmorpg, which I agree with completely. So if people ask for a feature that does not suit or is not intented for a game, the only option really is to give it as an option to satisfy the need for those who ask it if the devs so wish, without taking away from anyone else gaming joy. I couldnt care less about it personally, just saying how it is possible to give something demanded without destroying your product or cripple it to something it's not intented to be.
I still feel the best solution, like I already said, is to stop asking for the harsh death penalty in games that do not have it or are not intended to have one, and go play a game that has harsh death penalty and is built one in mind. Problem solved.
I don't believe in perma death. However I think there should be some sort of penalty. In eq2 you spend plats to fix your armor and get a debuf for a short while. In lotro you spend silver and gold to repair your armor even if you don't die and if you do you get a debuf for while depending on your zone.
I just think death penalties are needed to make you pay attention, otherwise you never learn.
I do inflict harsher death penalties on myself in many games I play. To me, it's like penalties in football. It encourages players to play smarter and with more discipline. I don't care if other players do not like harsh death penalties, though I do believe that harsh death penalties in online games can help foster better communities.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I do inflict harsher death penalties on myself in many games I play. To me, it's like penalties in football. It encourages players to play smarter and with more discipline. I don't care if other players do not like harsh death penalties, though I do believe that harsh death penalties in online games can help foster better communities.
I got a honest question, just how do harsh death penaties foster better communties? Could you please elaborate.
Originally posted by kitarad Something occurred to me while reading all these boards and forums that if an option were to be placed individually on everyone's account where the game would delete your character everytime you died and you have to agree to it three times before the option was effective ,there would still be folk who would come on the forums and scream that they were not given a chance to change their minds after their character was deleted .
Unfortunately the human mind is very fickle and even when we decide something we may well decide at some point that is not what we want . So often we want the power to decide taken away from us . Strange but this here is an example of it.
You illustrate perfectly why an option wont work. The game needs to be designed from the ground up with perma-death in mind. I'd dare say it is virtually impossible to grind an entire set of pvp gear in rift or wow without dying because the game is designed around you dying every 2-5 minutes. You cannot raid through tiers and not die again because the game is designed around you dieing at least as you are learning the encounters. In games with perma-death or even severe penalty such as Vanguard where you leave a corpse down at the bottom of a fully respawned dungeon, there are strategies you employ to ... not die. You don't bring PuGs for Ragnaros / Hammergnell. You dont even enter these dungeons until you have met certain requirements. There are also abilities in these games which make it possible for you to avoid death such as evacs and FD/Ressers to name a few. This is just another aspect of community building that has been destroyed by instant gratification / entitlement gaming, and no cute little check box or BS post about deleting characters when you die is going to change it. It's actually less about perma-death and more about real MMO gaming for a lot of people.
You do realize that the "cute checkbox" option is voiced out basically because the harsh death penalty fans keep asking the option for mainstream themepark mmorpgs. I wouldnt even comment on the matter if the discussion was kept at the correct camp and about games that support it. As long as people keep asking the big penalty to games that does not support it, the "cute checkbox" is the best bet. Better option ofcourse is to just play a game that has mechanics the players wants and stop asking things to games that are not intented.
I dont see people asking for a cute checkbox. I see people asking for a harsh death penalty. The checkbox is NOT the best option. It is not even a good option. It is a stupid knee jerk reaction option dreampt up to try to pacify, not satisfy. A perma-death penatly in warcraft is just asinine. There is no point to it. The game is design so far on the opposite end of the spectrum, it would never work. Warcraft could do with a much harsher penalty, but thats not going to happen either because they are committing to things like "puggable raids" now .. /facepalm
You said people dont ask for checkbox, but a harsh death penalty. Then you say this feature does not suit at all a mainstream themepark mmorpg, which I agree with completely. So if people ask for a feature that does not suit or is not intented for a game, the only option really is to give it as an option to satisfy the need for those who ask it if the devs so wish, without taking away from anyone else gaming joy. I couldnt care less about it personally, just saying how it is possible to give something demanded without destroying your product or cripple it to something it's not intented to be.
I still feel the best solution, like I already said, is to stop asking for the harsh death penalty in games that do not have it or are not intended to have one, and go play a game that has harsh death penalty and is built one in mind. Problem solved.
There aren't any that dont have chimpanzees for art directors / developers.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
I do inflict harsher death penalties on myself in many games I play. To me, it's like penalties in football. It encourages players to play smarter and with more discipline. I don't care if other players do not like harsh death penalties, though I do believe that harsh death penalties in online games can help foster better communities.
I got a honest question, just how do harsh death penaties foster better communties? Could you please elaborate.
There are several ways, but they are reliant on the other mechanics and circumstances of the game, of course. These are also my opinion. I have no hard facts to back them up other than my own experience.
1. It encourages players to play better. A lot of conflict and drama is due to players who don't give a shit and make silly mistakes that get other players killed. In general, if players are playing better, there will be less mistakes. By contrast, if there are no consequences, it really doesn't matter how many times or how bad you mess up. Ironically players tend to get more upset when someone screws up in games wtih light death penalties than in games with harsh consequences.
2. It encourages players to help each other, instead of pointing fingers. When you die and it is difficult to get back to where you were before you died (long corpse run or XP loss), players are generally more sympathetic toward one another. Someone helped me when I died, now I am going to help you, to return the favor. By contrast, players in games with light death penalties might see a player asking for help and think that helping them would be a waste of time since nothing is lost if they do not help them.
3. It encourages communication. When there are harsh death penalties, players will be asking for help more often. Critisism is often not as harsh and more readily available. It is also often more appreciated. By contrast, if there are light death penalties, players are expected to rely on themselves and ridiculed when unable to do so.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You people say you like it because of the Rush you feel when doing anything. well why not self inflict your penalty? why force others to also have harsh Death Penalty?
do you need others to suffer for you to feel your rush?
I am confused. can some of you Pro-Harsh-Death-Penalty community members address this, and clear up some confusion please.
Why is it, you have a problem self inflicting your penalty so only you will have this Rush you so enjoy, and not making everybody playing the game to share in your Rush?
Because they can't be honest and say it is about inflicting the harm on someone else.
To show you, you could suggest that at character creation you can get a choice from 0-10 where 0 is a wow-like penalty to 10 where you get permadeath. If they want that rush, they will endorse this. Any other factor, means they really want to cause pain to someone else. All that matters is how they try to justify it or excuse their choices.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I do inflict harsher death penalties on myself in many games I play. To me, it's like penalties in football. It encourages players to play smarter and with more discipline. I don't care if other players do not like harsh death penalties, though I do believe that harsh death penalties in online games can help foster better communities.
I got a honest question, just how do harsh death penaties foster better communties? Could you please elaborate.
There are several ways, but they are reliant on the other mechanics and circumstances of the game, of course. These are also my opinion. I have no hard facts to back them up other than my own experience.
1. It encourages players to play better. A lot of conflict and drama is due to players who don't give a shit and make silly mistakes that get other players killed. In general, if players are playing better, there will be less mistakes. By contrast, if there are no consequences, it really doesn't matter how many times or how bad you mess up. Ironically players tend to get more upset when someone screws up in games wtih light death penalties than in games with harsh consequences.
2. It encourages players to help each other, instead of pointing fingers. When you die and it is difficult to get back to where you were before you died (long corpse run or XP loss), players are generally more sympathetic toward one another. Someone helped me when I died, now I am going to help you, to return the favor. By contrast, players in games with light death penalties might see a player asking for help and think that helping them would be a waste of time since nothing is lost if they do not help them.
3. It encourages communication. When there are harsh death penalties, players will be asking for help more often. Critisism is often not as harsh and more readily available. It is also often more appreciated. By contrast, if there are light death penalties, players are expected to rely on themselves and ridiculed when unable to do so.
If you put a gun to my head and ask me to be nice to you AND I actually do that, you wouldn't be to smart to think that I am being nice to you for any reason other than the gun. What you see is something that was a perception of it because people were trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
You people say you like it because of the Rush you feel when doing anything. well why not self inflict your penalty? why force others to also have harsh Death Penalty?
do you need others to suffer for you to feel your rush?
I am confused. can some of you Pro-Harsh-Death-Penalty community members address this, and clear up some confusion please.
Why is it, you have a problem self inflicting your penalty so only you will have this Rush you so enjoy, and not making everybody playing the game to share in your Rush?
The game is what the game is.
"Self inflicting" anything is not the game.
A harsh death penalty means you don't want to die, but you do.
You people say you like it because of the Rush you feel when doing anything. well why not self inflict your penalty? why force others to also have harsh Death Penalty?
do you need others to suffer for you to feel your rush?
I am confused. can some of you Pro-Harsh-Death-Penalty community members address this, and clear up some confusion please.
Why is it, you have a problem self inflicting your penalty so only you will have this Rush you so enjoy, and not making everybody playing the game to share in your Rush?
The game is what the game is.
"Self inflicting" anything is not the game.
A harsh death penalty means you don't want to die, but you do.
If you "self inflict" it, then you must want it.
I will never play a game with harsh death penalties. That said, I was gonna say the same thing you did. Its the fear of that penalty that changes the way you play, the way OTHERS play with you. Making it a choice removes the fear, and the ways this fear affects your choices in the game. Players that want this game type WANT it to force others to play the way they do, because anything less means the game is advantaged against them...and basically isn't like playing a game at all. Its similar to saying you COULD drop out of a TDM match in Call of Duty when you died. But if it isn't a forced penalty, no one else will..and you will ALWAYS LOSE. Not much fun, that.
Comments
Thank you for proving his point.
Thanks for proving my point even further.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Not that these one sentence replies aren't fun but what "IS" your point? That your way of playing is some how "better"? That harsh death penalties make you an "uber" player?
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
ok thats a way we can dicuss:
My point is really simple based about making the journey worthwhile note fun again, add risk versus reward and better community with better players my poiint is yes, thats fun for me.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Correct, for you. Not everyone else. Just the point I was trying to get across. And communities in MMOs are fickle things. Regardless of game style (P2P, F2P, Full PvP, themepark) the only correlation I have been able to come up with in 11 years of playing MMOs is that the size of the player base is directly proportional to the amount of crap in general chat. The best communities are the ones with small, tight-knit, playerbases...
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Well from my experience I've played ones with harsh and ones with no death penalty, despite the size of the playerbase communities in games with harsh penalties have been way better, helpful and overall very! knowledgeable.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
From my experience, games with harsh penalties are the cradle of elitist self-imposed "good" players, who take pride is belittling others, who think that being a "good" player is a very important issue of pride and almighty self-gratification.
From my experience, games with lesser penalties can be anything from good to bad, depending on the game.
From my experience, most people play games for fun, and do not care if they are good or bad in the eyes of the elitists.
From my experience, ... your experience is alien to many players.
More and more games have lenient penalties. It is getting bad for those who want harsher deaths.
I am actually sympathetic to those who sincerely want a challenge, but far too many so call champions are just trying to pretend to be "better".
Developers generally prefer a larger playerbase and this suggestion will limit the playerbase considerably . One is perfectly entitled to believe whatever they wish about their own gaming prowess it does not necessarily translate into anything of significance unless it can generate revenue to the company producing the game. Until this form of gameplay can generate success it will be very niche .I have no idea actually about how many people would support this type of gaming and if any companies who have the resources to investigate this have done so . We can wait and see what the future holds.
However i played Everquest from the very beginning fear of losing my corpse completely has made a difference in my playstyle but I cannot really say that it would be any different had I started in WoW. Our characters untimately determine how we behave in any game.
+1
I love harsh death penalties and the entire logic behind this thread is absent to me. Maybe its because I only PvP, however the beautiful thing about death penalties is making other people suffer them. Why on earth would I willingly inflict one on myself? I love barely getting away with my life and knowing how angry the other person is. I love killing people repeatedly knowing they are losing hours/days worth of w/e it is they lose, whether it be gear or xp or money. Call me an elitest, I dont care, the only people who cry about harsh and penalizing death's are the scrubs doing the dieing. Sucks to be the little fish in the food chain, but it sure is fun being the shark.
Ah man, your quasi-troll threads are always priceless Exposed
.
Anyway, I think it should be obvious that different games are made to cater to different tastes. Some games have a harsh DP, some don't. Play whatever you enjoy.
I enjoy games both without or with a harsh DP, they just bring different things to the table for me that are both enjoyable. If you hate harsh DP so much, then you have plenty of alternative games available to you.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You realize, don't you, that the reason you feel that those types of communities were "better" is because they likely shared your outlook on gaming. Like-minded people tend to get along better with one another than with those who don't share their point of view. It's human nature.
True that and thats why I am a huge fan of different games for different people and hating the idea of one game for everyone.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
You said people dont ask for checkbox, but a harsh death penalty. Then you say this feature does not suit at all a mainstream themepark mmorpg, which I agree with completely. So if people ask for a feature that does not suit or is not intented for a game, the only option really is to give it as an option to satisfy the need for those who ask it if the devs so wish, without taking away from anyone else gaming joy. I couldnt care less about it personally, just saying how it is possible to give something demanded without destroying your product or cripple it to something it's not intented to be.
I still feel the best solution, like I already said, is to stop asking for the harsh death penalty in games that do not have it or are not intended to have one, and go play a game that has harsh death penalty and is built one in mind. Problem solved.
I don't believe in perma death. However I think there should be some sort of penalty. In eq2 you spend plats to fix your armor and get a debuf for a short while. In lotro you spend silver and gold to repair your armor even if you don't die and if you do you get a debuf for while depending on your zone.
I just think death penalties are needed to make you pay attention, otherwise you never learn.
I do inflict harsher death penalties on myself in many games I play. To me, it's like penalties in football. It encourages players to play smarter and with more discipline. I don't care if other players do not like harsh death penalties, though I do believe that harsh death penalties in online games can help foster better communities.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I got a honest question, just how do harsh death penaties foster better communties? Could you please elaborate.
There aren't any that dont have chimpanzees for art directors / developers.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
There are several ways, but they are reliant on the other mechanics and circumstances of the game, of course. These are also my opinion. I have no hard facts to back them up other than my own experience.
1. It encourages players to play better. A lot of conflict and drama is due to players who don't give a shit and make silly mistakes that get other players killed. In general, if players are playing better, there will be less mistakes. By contrast, if there are no consequences, it really doesn't matter how many times or how bad you mess up. Ironically players tend to get more upset when someone screws up in games wtih light death penalties than in games with harsh consequences.
2. It encourages players to help each other, instead of pointing fingers. When you die and it is difficult to get back to where you were before you died (long corpse run or XP loss), players are generally more sympathetic toward one another. Someone helped me when I died, now I am going to help you, to return the favor. By contrast, players in games with light death penalties might see a player asking for help and think that helping them would be a waste of time since nothing is lost if they do not help them.
3. It encourages communication. When there are harsh death penalties, players will be asking for help more often. Critisism is often not as harsh and more readily available. It is also often more appreciated. By contrast, if there are light death penalties, players are expected to rely on themselves and ridiculed when unable to do so.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Because they can't be honest and say it is about inflicting the harm on someone else.
To show you, you could suggest that at character creation you can get a choice from 0-10 where 0 is a wow-like penalty to 10 where you get permadeath. If they want that rush, they will endorse this. Any other factor, means they really want to cause pain to someone else. All that matters is how they try to justify it or excuse their choices.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If you put a gun to my head and ask me to be nice to you AND I actually do that, you wouldn't be to smart to think that I am being nice to you for any reason other than the gun. What you see is something that was a perception of it because people were trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The game is what the game is.
"Self inflicting" anything is not the game.
A harsh death penalty means you don't want to die, but you do.
If you "self inflict" it, then you must want it.
I will never play a game with harsh death penalties. That said, I was gonna say the same thing you did. Its the fear of that penalty that changes the way you play, the way OTHERS play with you. Making it a choice removes the fear, and the ways this fear affects your choices in the game. Players that want this game type WANT it to force others to play the way they do, because anything less means the game is advantaged against them...and basically isn't like playing a game at all. Its similar to saying you COULD drop out of a TDM match in Call of Duty when you died. But if it isn't a forced penalty, no one else will..and you will ALWAYS LOSE. Not much fun, that.