Sad really to see the same 3-4 people visit these forums everyday to bash this game.
It really is.
Personally, I'm jealous that someone has that much free time to waste, must be nice.
The funny thing is a lot of these haters still say they are going to play the game, even though they clearly hate it. They must be a glutton for punishment.
Anyone who actually did not play the game at the Eurogamer Expo is just bloating the conversation up with their useless, opinionated babble.
The majority of posters in this thread, on both sides of the debate, have done way more then that.
I really doubt that, assuming you are implying most of the posters are currently in the beta. No matter your beta status, my point is still valid.
I am just saying that assuming the folks DON'T have an in depth knowledge of the gameisnt maybe a good idea. You can doubt it as much as you like, but a lot of folks are talking from extended first hand experience.
Anyone who actually did not play the game at the Eurogamer Expo is just bloating the conversation up with their useless, opinionated babble.
The majority of posters in this thread, on both sides of the debate, have done way more then that.
I really doubt that, assuming you are implying most of the posters are currently in the beta. No matter your beta status, my point is still valid. We are bound by NDA and can't discuss what we've seen. It is pointless to try to drop in hints here and there, you aren't allowed to.
The dialogue here has to come from people who've played SWTOR at a tradeshow and can comment on their experience.
im pretty sure we can discuss what is publicly available such as the article posted by OP, and other readily available media supplied through official bioware/EA channels for public view.
I agree.
It is obviously allowable to discuss anything in the public domain and our opinions of it, even if we might have been in beta.
I like the article for the simple fact that someone on a major mmorpg-website has the spine to speak about what he thinks are negative points of a product coming from one of the big guys. And at least his cons are debatable, also his article lead into a very lively discussion on the forums.
Compare all this to the "reviews" (ha ha ha) being published on this website and you'll get the point. I rather prefer what this guy has stated instead of free 8+ ratings for every major title and 3 pages of users agreeing to each other on what a biased piece of text in favor for the "friends in the industry" we got served again, even ignoring the most blatant cons that made people leave a game in droves.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
And this is why I won't bother picking this up.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
im pretty sure we can discuss what is publicly available such as the article posted by OP, and other readily available media supplied through official bioware/EA channels for public view.
Be it as it may, there really isn't that much to discuss, sure you can take a look at a video or a trailer and spout out opinions, however nothign compares to actually playing and getting a feel for the game.
FFS this guy plays 10 minutes and then writes about it? Should we take him for serious? LOL!
But...isn't it kind of his job to go to a convention and then write his impressions from his experiences? You know...a journalist?
Anyway, this is not, and was never, a "review" and people shouldn't take it as such. It is just an impression from the demo experience. Does it mean the game is going to be bad? Of course not. Does it even mean that the person who wrote the review would not like the full game? Nope! He may play the game and actually love it. It could have just been a poor demo experience.
That said, it's perfect rational to discuss opinions or concerns that you have from your demo experience. Nothing wrong with that.
FFS this guy plays 10 minutes and then writes about it? Should we take him for serious? LOL!
But...isn't it kind of his job to go to a convention and then write his impressions from his experiences? You know...a journalist?
Anyway, this is not, and was never, a "review" and people shouldn't take it as such. It is just an impression from the demo experience. Does it mean the game is going to be bad? Of course not. Does it even mean that the person who wrote the review would not like the full game? Nope! He may play the game and actually love it. It could have just been a poor demo experience.
That said, it's perfect rational to discuss opinions or concerns that you have from your demo experience. Nothing wrong with that.
It is in this forum. This place is for insulting everybodies inteligence. I think your in the wrong room.
FFS this guy plays 10 minutes and then writes about it? Should we take him for serious? LOL!
But...isn't it kind of his job to go to a convention and then write his impressions from his experiences? You know...a journalist?
Anyway, this is not, and was never, a "review" and people shouldn't take it as such. It is just an impression from the demo experience. Does it mean the game is going to be bad? Of course not. Does it even mean that the person who wrote the review would not like the full game? Nope! He may play the game and actually love it. It could have just been a poor demo experience.
That said, it's perfect rational to discuss opinions or concerns that you have from your demo experience. Nothing wrong with that.
Well, pretty much this. I mean think about it, if you only had 10 minutes to play, throwing you in a high level mission, you'd spend 10 minutes just figuring out what skills you had, and how to use them. You'd be done before you even started.
Starting on a tutorial is the simplest way to ensure everyone who had a chance to play, could actually do something. It might make for a less than stellar experience because you don't get to see very much awesomeness, but if its between that and being completely confused and overwhelmed, I'd take the low level gameplay.
FFS this guy plays 10 minutes and then writes about it? Should we take him for serious? LOL!
But...isn't it kind of his job to go to a convention and then write his impressions from his experiences? You know...a journalist?
Anyway, this is not, and was never, a "review" and people shouldn't take it as such. It is just an impression from the demo experience. Does it mean the game is going to be bad? Of course not. Does it even mean that the person who wrote the review would not like the full game? Nope! He may play the game and actually love it. It could have just been a poor demo experience.
That said, it's perfect rational to discuss opinions or concerns that you have from your demo experience. Nothing wrong with that.
Well, pretty much this. I mean think about it, if you only had 10 minutes to play, throwing you in a high level mission, you'd spend 10 minutes just figuring out what skills you had, and how to use them. You'd be done before you even started.
Starting on a tutorial is the simplest way to ensure everyone who had a chance to play, could actually do something. It might make for a less than stellar experience because you don't get to see very much awesomeness, but if its between that and being completely confused and overwhelmed, I'd take the low level gameplay.
All demos throw you into the same situation. You either play through the tutorial aspect, or they throw you headlong into higher level content and leave you to learn quickly on the fly, which veteran MMO gamers (aka the type of players you find at a gaming convention) are well adept at doing. In both cases, the entire purpose of the demo experience is to try to provide players with a positive experience to go relate to others.
The author is simply relating his experiences, as is expected of him. Or are you of the opinion that only positive demo experiences should be talked about while all negative experiences are somehow more invalid than their positive counterparts and not worth discussing?
FFS people stop calling every new MMO a WoW clone....
Devs stop making every new MMO a Wow clone...
fixed
I'm not surprised Another clone with voices.
If there is one thing I have learned about playing Morrowind and Oblivion its that voices made everything better.
Also who in the hell wouldn't want to be the most successful MMO to date? I am alway curious as to why people thing that if a game shares any simluarities with a another that is a WoW Clone? ToR from what I played is nothing like WoW with the exception of the combat and that is where the simularities end.
Thats like people saying they won't play Fallout because its a Morrowind clone and people are tired of it.
Well maybe the reason why people are crying "wow clone" is because the devs themselves proudly admitted as much?
We can talk whether it's a good thing that SW:TOR is a WoW clone regarding the basic game mechanics, or is that a bad thing... But there really is no discussion whether it is a "clone" or not. It is. The devs said that it is a WoW clone and that anyone making a AAA mmo which is NOT a WoW clone is stupid.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
So, it is a WoW clone or do you want to take it up to Bioware and tell them that it is not a WoW clone? Do you know what SW:TOR is all about better than Bioware?
In summary, SW:TOR is WoW with a different setting, story and graphics with some novel improvements in sound and minor game mechanics. But the main mechanics and gameplay style is exactly the same as WoW's. Some people like that. We can say that probably the most mmo playerbase is happy enough with wow-style gameplay as is evident with the 10+ million subs that game has. This is the assumption Bioware is working on. Personally I think they missed the mark with this logic but hey, they might turn out to be right. If you liked WoW but grew tired of it's setting and content then SW:TOR is the game for you and it being a "WoW-clone" is actually a good thing.
(xcuse my weird english, im tired and not a native...)
noun /?t?CH?st?n/
touchstones, plural
A piece of fine-grained dark schist or jasper formerly used for testing alloys of gold by observing the color of the mark that they made on it
A standard or criterion by which something is judged or recognized
touch·stone
That and Oblivion was nothing more then Morrowind with more sound and a little different gameplay and its the best selling RPG (Single Player) of all times.
FFS people stop calling every new MMO a WoW clone....
Devs stop making every new MMO a Wow clone...
fixed
I'm not surprised Another clone with voices.
If there is one thing I have learned about playing Morrowind and Oblivion its that voices made everything better.
Also who in the hell wouldn't want to be the most successful MMO to date? I am alway curious as to why people thing that if a game shares any simluarities with a another that is a WoW Clone? ToR from what I played is nothing like WoW with the exception of the combat and that is where the simularities end.
Thats like people saying they won't play Fallout because its a Morrowind clone and people are tired of it.
Well maybe the reason why people are crying "wow clone" is because the devs themselves proudly admitted as much?
We can talk whether it's a good thing that SW:TOR is a WoW clone regarding the basic game mechanics, or is that a bad thing... But there really is no discussion whether it is a "clone" or not. It is. The devs said that it is a WoW clone and that anyone making a AAA mmo which is NOT a WoW clone is stupid.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
So, it is a WoW clone or do you want to take it up to Bioware and tell them that it is not a WoW clone? Do you know what SW:TOR is all about better than Bioware?
In summary, SW:TOR is WoW with a different setting, story and graphics with some novel improvements in sound and minor game mechanics. But the main mechanics and gameplay style is exactly the same as WoW's. Some people like that. We can say that probably the most mmo playerbase is happy enough with wow-style gameplay as is evident with the 10+ million subs that game has. This is the assumption Bioware is working on. Personally I think they missed the mark with this logic but hey, they might turn out to be right. If you liked WoW but grew tired of it's setting and content then SW:TOR is the game for you and it being a "WoW-clone" is actually a good thing.
(xcuse my weird english, im tired and not a native...)
noun /?t?CH?st?n/
touchstones, plural
A piece of fine-grained dark schist or jasper formerly used for testing alloys of gold by observing the color of the mark that they made on it
A standard or criterion by which something is judged or recognized
touch·stone
That and Oblivion was nothing more then Morrowind with more sound and a little different gameplay and its the best selling RPG (Single Player) of all times.
Let me quote again, for better understanding "And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
Notice that he said "any". Not "most WoW rules" or even "some WoW rules" but "ANY of the WoW rules" - like in any one WoW rule (or "gameplay element" if you will)... Imo this pretty much closes this "whether it's a clone" discussion.
As for Morrowind vs Oblivion thing, that's a good analogy. SW:TOR may turn out to be the best selling mmo yet, who knows? I'm not saying that being a WoW clone is necessarily a "bad" thing, but let's call spade a spade. Especially if the devs themselves proudly admitted as much.
(and btw I loved Morrowind but couldn't stomach Oblivion.. exactly because of the gameplay changes from the original... While I dislike SW:TOR for following the formula too closely. Go figure...)
im pretty sure we can discuss what is publicly available such as the article posted by OP, and other readily available media supplied through official bioware/EA channels for public view.
Be it as it may, there really isn't that much to discuss, sure you can take a look at a video or a trailer and spout out opinions, however nothign compares to actually playing and getting a feel for the game.
it seems a number of people posting in this thread have fairly extensive first hand experience with the game, myself included. my point is that there are some valid opinions in this thread and they shouldn't be dismissed simply because they are negative. i believe SW:ToR will ultimately be succesful, but i also believe the article OP cited was well written and brought up some valid concerns.
im pretty sure we can discuss what is publicly available such as the article posted by OP, and other readily available media supplied through official bioware/EA channels for public view.
Be it as it may, there really isn't that much to discuss, sure you can take a look at a video or a trailer and spout out opinions, however nothign compares to actually playing and getting a feel for the game.
it seems a number of people posting in this thread have fairly extensive first hand experience with the game, myself included. my point is that there are some valid opinions in this thread and they shouldn't be dismissed simply because they are negative. i believe SW:ToR will ultimately be succesful, but i also believe the article OP cited was well written and brought up some valid concerns.
He played for 10 minutes, I don't think I have ever played a game for 10 minutes and went, "Wow, this game is good/bad.".
The thing is that most of the negative reviews of most games coming out is by people who do not like the genre of said game they are playing or they do not like the specific mechanics of that game, as is the case with that negative review on GW2 by the chich that was a LOTRO fan.
People also seem to get confused and say, "He brings up valid points why are you fanbois complaining?". I am not complaining but all of the so called valid points he is bringing up generally do not matter to me personally. I enjoyed WoW and after not playing it for a few months I think TOR will be fresh enough for me.
Just like movies needed to become talkies, games are missing a key component to truly count as the next entertainment medium and that something has to do with the human to digital interaction.
I get where your coming from, but I disagree with the use of the word 'needed'.
Games didnt NEED to have story, they don't NEED to be interactive movies, they don't NEED to be glorified versions of Dragon's Lair.
Some of the best games ever made are not about story at all. In fact, for most MMORPGs are not about story at all and they have sold in their millions.
I really doubt that statement. Could you give me examples of these MMOS which sold in millions?
You need to reread what I said and try to understand.
Key words to look out for are 'for' and 'most'.
I re read it but even 'for' and the 'most' part you fail to give me example of these MMOS which sold in millions.
"Given how much money is being thrown at Star Wars: The Old Republic, I was genuinely surprised that BioWare had stuck with the WoW gameplay model down to the last detail, even when it didn't work very well or suit the setting. If all you're looking for is a new Star Wars-themed MMO with familiar gameplay, then SWTOR is sure to be a big hit with you. I personally left the demo at Eurogamer Expo distinctly underwhelmed and a little bit disappointed."
Well it all seems fair to me. She confirmed what the devs themselves said about copying WoW gameplay and said that personally it is not her cup of tea but she can see how many people can enjoy it.
I really don't see any problem with her review.
Imo some folks reacting negatively here are basically in denial. They would really like to play a SW mmo which does not copy WoW's gameplay so they keep arguning that SW:TOR is not a WoW clone while it most definitely is. And again I don't see how that should automatically be a bad thing. Doom had many "clones" which were actually great games. And so did C&C... Many many games which copied and polished the basic gameplay mechanics those games set down (X). If you like WoW mechanics (and Bioware is betting a crapload of money you do) then rejoice.
However, considering how much negativity the very expression "wow clone" invariably attracts, I kinda doubt that Bioware made an optimal decision regarding their basic gameplay... If everybody loved WoW so much for its questing and tab-targeting, linear story structure and raid-based endgame then I suspect that being called a "WoW clone" would be considered a good thing and not something you should hotly deny.
(X) Ofc these are the games which invented/polpularized genres but a genre is a bit wider category. For example, Total War is a RTS but its not C&C clone... like Age of Empires was for example. And not all FPSs are Doom clones, in fact it's very hard to find a Doom clone FPS nowadays since it seems everybody's gone for hyper realism insted of rpg-in-your-face romper stomper fun.
I'm sure TOR will have a lot of subscribers and attention, but given how much they have spent making it I think it will do very poorly. It has too much $$ put into its development and marketing to actually shut down, but it will go down in history as another failure mmo, both financially and in terms of bringing something of quality to the genre.
FFS this guy plays 10 minutes and then writes about it? Should we take him for serious? LOL!
But...isn't it kind of his job to go to a convention and then write his impressions from his experiences? You know...a journalist?
Anyway, this is not, and was never, a "review" and people shouldn't take it as such. It is just an impression from the demo experience. Does it mean the game is going to be bad? Of course not. Does it even mean that the person who wrote the review would not like the full game? Nope! He may play the game and actually love it. It could have just been a poor demo experience.
That said, it's perfect rational to discuss opinions or concerns that you have from your demo experience. Nothing wrong with that.
Well, pretty much this. I mean think about it, if you only had 10 minutes to play, throwing you in a high level mission, you'd spend 10 minutes just figuring out what skills you had, and how to use them. You'd be done before you even started.
Starting on a tutorial is the simplest way to ensure everyone who had a chance to play, could actually do something. It might make for a less than stellar experience because you don't get to see very much awesomeness, but if its between that and being completely confused and overwhelmed, I'd take the low level gameplay.
All demos throw you into the same situation. You either play through the tutorial aspect, or they throw you headlong into higher level content and leave you to learn quickly on the fly, which veteran MMO gamers (aka the type of players you find at a gaming convention) are well adept at doing. In both cases, the entire purpose of the demo experience is to try to provide players with a positive experience to go relate to others.
The author is simply relating his experiences, as is expected of him. Or are you of the opinion that only positive demo experiences should be talked about while all negative experiences are somehow more invalid than their positive counterparts and not worth discussing?
LOL I don't care about the experience.. its 10 minutes.. you can have 10 minutes of confusion, or 10 minutes of somewhat cohesive playtime..
Just like movies needed to become talkies, games are missing a key component to truly count as the next entertainment medium and that something has to do with the human to digital interaction.
I get where your coming from, but I disagree with the use of the word 'needed'.
Games didnt NEED to have story, they don't NEED to be interactive movies, they don't NEED to be glorified versions of Dragon's Lair.
Some of the best games ever made are not about story at all. In fact, for most MMORPGs are not about story at all and they have sold in their millions.
I also get where youre coming from, games come in all the colors of the rainbow yes but i never said they need any single element to be great. What I was trying to articulate (I apologise I have a hard time getting my point across sometimes as english is my second language) is that the gaming industry as a whole needs to evolve in terms of gameplay and the way the player interacts with the software in order to become a true entertainment medium one that is acepted as the norm by most if not all of society.
Nowhere did I say that anything about games needing a good story or Dragon's Lair and the bit about interactive movies was meant as a generalization about how some games like Mass Effect for example that are trying to bridge the gap between movie and videogame.
But this is probably a topic for another post if someone starts/finds one along this train of thought link me and I'd love to ramble some more on the subject.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
And this is why I won't bother picking this up.
Me too more than likely. I couldnt believe they actually said this when they did. Super Mario Bros established standards and was a touchstone too but games have kind of moved forward. Thats kind of what the game industry is about. Or is supposed to be.
WoW is fine but its pretty darn old. Are we still supposed to be playing WoW clones in the year 2035 ? When exactly do things move forward? Video games in general have changed a LOT since WoW was released. Just not mmorpgs. I have no idea why. Its baffling too me.
I stopped reading his review when it said was just like wow. I have read to many reviews from players who have played wow and tor to believe that.
sure it has alot of the same mechanics but i have read enough reviews from torwars, darth hater , pcgamer, massively and other sites where players have played wow for years and tor and all of them say its not a wow clone.
So i can believe the reviews that say tor isnt a wow clone or i can believe the one guy who says it is. I decide to believe the many many reviews that tell me its not a wow clone even if it does have some of the basic mechanics wow has.
Like a simple ui, ans similar combat mechanics. I have read to many reveiws from people with huge experiance in wow and many play sessions in tor to trust one guy with 10 mins over them.
That said i believe the companion, crafting and story aspects of this game will be worth the time it ake to play it. Im a fanboi ill admit it but i dont mind negative reviews. I just would believe the many reviews ive read saying anyone who has had more then 5 mins with this game wouldnt think its a wow clone over the 1 review that calls it a wow clone.
Comments
The funny thing is a lot of these haters still say they are going to play the game, even though they clearly hate it. They must be a glutton for punishment.
In Bioware we trust!
I am just saying that assuming the folks DON'T have an in depth knowledge of the gameisnt maybe a good idea. You can doubt it as much as you like, but a lot of folks are talking from extended first hand experience.
I agree.
It is obviously allowable to discuss anything in the public domain and our opinions of it, even if we might have been in beta.
I like the article for the simple fact that someone on a major mmorpg-website has the spine to speak about what he thinks are negative points of a product coming from one of the big guys. And at least his cons are debatable, also his article lead into a very lively discussion on the forums.
Compare all this to the "reviews" (ha ha ha) being published on this website and you'll get the point. I rather prefer what this guy has stated instead of free 8+ ratings for every major title and 3 pages of users agreeing to each other on what a biased piece of text in favor for the "friends in the industry" we got served again, even ignoring the most blatant cons that made people leave a game in droves.
You mean Bioware is doing this to make money? I mean....who do they think they are...a business?
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
And this is why I won't bother picking this up.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Be it as it may, there really isn't that much to discuss, sure you can take a look at a video or a trailer and spout out opinions, however nothign compares to actually playing and getting a feel for the game.
FFS this guy plays 10 minutes and then writes about it? Should we take him for serious? LOL!
But...isn't it kind of his job to go to a convention and then write his impressions from his experiences? You know...a journalist?
Anyway, this is not, and was never, a "review" and people shouldn't take it as such. It is just an impression from the demo experience. Does it mean the game is going to be bad? Of course not. Does it even mean that the person who wrote the review would not like the full game? Nope! He may play the game and actually love it. It could have just been a poor demo experience.
That said, it's perfect rational to discuss opinions or concerns that you have from your demo experience. Nothing wrong with that.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It is in this forum. This place is for insulting everybodies inteligence. I think your in the wrong room.
Well, pretty much this. I mean think about it, if you only had 10 minutes to play, throwing you in a high level mission, you'd spend 10 minutes just figuring out what skills you had, and how to use them. You'd be done before you even started.
Starting on a tutorial is the simplest way to ensure everyone who had a chance to play, could actually do something. It might make for a less than stellar experience because you don't get to see very much awesomeness, but if its between that and being completely confused and overwhelmed, I'd take the low level gameplay.
All demos throw you into the same situation. You either play through the tutorial aspect, or they throw you headlong into higher level content and leave you to learn quickly on the fly, which veteran MMO gamers (aka the type of players you find at a gaming convention) are well adept at doing. In both cases, the entire purpose of the demo experience is to try to provide players with a positive experience to go relate to others.
The author is simply relating his experiences, as is expected of him. Or are you of the opinion that only positive demo experiences should be talked about while all negative experiences are somehow more invalid than their positive counterparts and not worth discussing?
noun /?t?CH?st?n/
touchstones, plural
A piece of fine-grained dark schist or jasper formerly used for testing alloys of gold by observing the color of the mark that they made on it
A standard or criterion by which something is judged or recognized
touch·stone
That and Oblivion was nothing more then Morrowind with more sound and a little different gameplay and its the best selling RPG (Single Player) of all times.
I hate it when people combine cynicism with oversimplified classification
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Let me quote again, for better understanding "And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
Notice that he said "any". Not "most WoW rules" or even "some WoW rules" but "ANY of the WoW rules" - like in any one WoW rule (or "gameplay element" if you will)... Imo this pretty much closes this "whether it's a clone" discussion.
As for Morrowind vs Oblivion thing, that's a good analogy. SW:TOR may turn out to be the best selling mmo yet, who knows? I'm not saying that being a WoW clone is necessarily a "bad" thing, but let's call spade a spade. Especially if the devs themselves proudly admitted as much.
(and btw I loved Morrowind but couldn't stomach Oblivion.. exactly because of the gameplay changes from the original... While I dislike SW:TOR for following the formula too closely. Go figure...)
it seems a number of people posting in this thread have fairly extensive first hand experience with the game, myself included. my point is that there are some valid opinions in this thread and they shouldn't be dismissed simply because they are negative. i believe SW:ToR will ultimately be succesful, but i also believe the article OP cited was well written and brought up some valid concerns.
He played for 10 minutes, I don't think I have ever played a game for 10 minutes and went, "Wow, this game is good/bad.".
The thing is that most of the negative reviews of most games coming out is by people who do not like the genre of said game they are playing or they do not like the specific mechanics of that game, as is the case with that negative review on GW2 by the chich that was a LOTRO fan.
People also seem to get confused and say, "He brings up valid points why are you fanbois complaining?". I am not complaining but all of the so called valid points he is bringing up generally do not matter to me personally. I enjoyed WoW and after not playing it for a few months I think TOR will be fresh enough for me.
I re read it but even 'for' and the 'most' part you fail to give me example of these MMOS which sold in millions.
"Given how much money is being thrown at Star Wars: The Old Republic, I was genuinely surprised that BioWare had stuck with the WoW gameplay model down to the last detail, even when it didn't work very well or suit the setting. If all you're looking for is a new Star Wars-themed MMO with familiar gameplay, then SWTOR is sure to be a big hit with you. I personally left the demo at Eurogamer Expo distinctly underwhelmed and a little bit disappointed."
Well it all seems fair to me. She confirmed what the devs themselves said about copying WoW gameplay and said that personally it is not her cup of tea but she can see how many people can enjoy it.
I really don't see any problem with her review.
Imo some folks reacting negatively here are basically in denial. They would really like to play a SW mmo which does not copy WoW's gameplay so they keep arguning that SW:TOR is not a WoW clone while it most definitely is. And again I don't see how that should automatically be a bad thing. Doom had many "clones" which were actually great games. And so did C&C... Many many games which copied and polished the basic gameplay mechanics those games set down (X). If you like WoW mechanics (and Bioware is betting a crapload of money you do) then rejoice.
However, considering how much negativity the very expression "wow clone" invariably attracts, I kinda doubt that Bioware made an optimal decision regarding their basic gameplay... If everybody loved WoW so much for its questing and tab-targeting, linear story structure and raid-based endgame then I suspect that being called a "WoW clone" would be considered a good thing and not something you should hotly deny.
(X) Ofc these are the games which invented/polpularized genres but a genre is a bit wider category. For example, Total War is a RTS but its not C&C clone... like Age of Empires was for example. And not all FPSs are Doom clones, in fact it's very hard to find a Doom clone FPS nowadays since it seems everybody's gone for hyper realism insted of rpg-in-your-face romper stomper fun.
I'm sure TOR will have a lot of subscribers and attention, but given how much they have spent making it I think it will do very poorly. It has too much $$ put into its development and marketing to actually shut down, but it will go down in history as another failure mmo, both financially and in terms of bringing something of quality to the genre.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
LOL I don't care about the experience.. its 10 minutes.. you can have 10 minutes of confusion, or 10 minutes of somewhat cohesive playtime..
I also get where youre coming from, games come in all the colors of the rainbow yes but i never said they need any single element to be great. What I was trying to articulate (I apologise I have a hard time getting my point across sometimes as english is my second language) is that the gaming industry as a whole needs to evolve in terms of gameplay and the way the player interacts with the software in order to become a true entertainment medium one that is acepted as the norm by most if not all of society.
Nowhere did I say that anything about games needing a good story or Dragon's Lair and the bit about interactive movies was meant as a generalization about how some games like Mass Effect for example that are trying to bridge the gap between movie and videogame.
But this is probably a topic for another post if someone starts/finds one along this train of thought link me and I'd love to ramble some more on the subject.
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Me too more than likely. I couldnt believe they actually said this when they did. Super Mario Bros established standards and was a touchstone too but games have kind of moved forward. Thats kind of what the game industry is about. Or is supposed to be.
WoW is fine but its pretty darn old. Are we still supposed to be playing WoW clones in the year 2035 ? When exactly do things move forward? Video games in general have changed a LOT since WoW was released. Just not mmorpgs. I have no idea why. Its baffling too me.
I stopped reading his review when it said was just like wow. I have read to many reviews from players who have played wow and tor to believe that.
sure it has alot of the same mechanics but i have read enough reviews from torwars, darth hater , pcgamer, massively and other sites where players have played wow for years and tor and all of them say its not a wow clone.
So i can believe the reviews that say tor isnt a wow clone or i can believe the one guy who says it is. I decide to believe the many many reviews that tell me its not a wow clone even if it does have some of the basic mechanics wow has.
Like a simple ui, ans similar combat mechanics. I have read to many reveiws from people with huge experiance in wow and many play sessions in tor to trust one guy with 10 mins over them.
That said i believe the companion, crafting and story aspects of this game will be worth the time it ake to play it. Im a fanboi ill admit it but i dont mind negative reviews. I just would believe the many reviews ive read saying anyone who has had more then 5 mins with this game wouldnt think its a wow clone over the 1 review that calls it a wow clone.