In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
Someone didn't like an mmo because it used standard mmo buttons.
Big deal.
If that is what will make you not like a game no matter what else it may have to offer then there won't be any way to persuade the person. That is a person's right but when it comes to posting a blog or review of a game one has to put aside their peeves and objectively describe the experience.
If I were to buy a FPS game and suddenly find it went to mmo style keybinds and powers I would be upset. But to expect a game that has dozens of spell/power options to suddenly work like a FPS game simply because servers can handle it is somewhat stupid. There are many reasons why mmo's have done with this method. First and formost is that the server can manage all results without risk of client side hacks and macro's. WIth tons of different powers you still are forced to use multiple keybinds and combat pretty much only then differs by having to target someone or not. It changes from being apples and oranges to being oranges and mandarins.
Everyone who wants and 'evolution' in mmo combat inevitably asks for it to have FPS combat. They also tend to completely forget the drawbacks to this:
- you only now target FPS players. This hurts the mmo audience greatly as mmo's tend to attract a HUGE percentage of non-FPS gamers.
- there are still a ton of technical drawbacks to this type of combat.
- you force first person and/or reticle which many players simply cannot stand and ruins immersion for many. Being forced to face a limited arc at all times is actually very restrictive in what you can do. You ruin the option for panoramic camera views while in combat. You ruin styles of combat like healer combat many have come to love and team strategy playing where battlefield overhead vantages.
- responsiveness of FPS is balanced against simplification. You actually lose many options just to gain being able to attack where you want at what you want. These have to be taken into consideration. Responsiveness can be tweaked into any system in order to create the feel most want. Hell even Wow did this well even with their traditional setup and some FPS shooter games just plain suck because the failed in their mechanics.
The greatest argument for FPS style combat is that it is more fast paced and realistic. Well mmo's aren't always about being a combat sim. It is replicates much much more than that. Hell I would love to have seen something more original in SWTOR but once you play it and perhaps think it simply 'feels' right then they have done their job. I have played FPS style mmo's and to be perfectly honest the majority of them suck big time. There is a reason why no FPS mmo have become as popular or traditional mmo's.
Perhaps SWTOR will have options like CO where you can emulate FPS style combat (they gave tons of options for control because it's supports XBOX style controllers). Players can gain a sense of combat they like if this is the case. Lets hope so.
But until we can all play the game and find out (I have very limited in game time thus far due to complications on first beta weekend) there isn't much point griping about the game 99.5% done simply because it isn't Star Wars Call of Duty in one's mind.
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
Not to mention not even getting the email after receivng an invite:P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
Not to mention not even getting the email after receivng an invite:P.
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
What beta invite?
Oh nvm. Read it wrong. HOW THE F@#$! does THAT happen?!
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
What beta invite?
Oh nvm. Read it wrong. HOW THE F@#$! does THAT happen?!
Unless you're like my girl who NEVER deletes anything in her mailbox having over 1000 emails and checking it like once a month.
10 minutes of gameplay can hardly be enough because soemtimes a game does not show any depth at so little time. I will give this review the same weight ten mins does.
And if it would of been a glowing review you would have no problem with the 10 min review.
Nah if it was a glowing review then the roles would be reversed. The detractors would be saying yeah it looks great for that 10 mins but then every game looks great until the novelty wears off then it back to same old same old.
Neither side is immune to this. They both do it. You just hear the other sides defense (whichever happens to be contrary to the preview posted) more so then the other side when defense comes in of that idea.
People tend to defend their ideas more then attack.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
10 minutes of gameplay can hardly be enough because soemtimes a game does not show any depth at so little time. I will give this review the same weight ten mins does.
And if it would of been a glowing review you would have no problem with the 10 min review.
The thing that bothers me with this full page article based on 10 minutes is that it is a full page article based on 10 minutes.
I do read many of the small quotes from those who had a chance to demo. Both positive and negative. But it is the few sentences that a 10 minute demo out of 1600+ hours of content should get. A review like this demo player had should be for something like the 7 hour press preview. Not just 10 minutes.
So I wouldn't care if this person didn't like aspects of the game. But to extrapolate to the entire game when he was still level 1 out of 50 doesn't make much sense. This was a tutorial that he probably ignored to try to go futher in his 10 minutes. Which is why he didn't know what was goining on or how to playl. Heck, it takes me more than 10 minutes to set up settings, keybinds and window placement the first time I start a new game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
This guy claims to know the gameplay of an MMO with 10 minutes starter zone experience... everyone knows by now that the traditional types of MMO's are slow starters, with very few skills to choose from in the first few minutes.
Basically , reporters have a right on an own opinion, but they also have the obligation to do torough research before posting it. People that post opinions based on 10 minutes hands on experience did not do their homework very toroughly and should so be punishable by law.... The power of the pen and internet is so huge these days that people should start realising how much hurt they cause by posting these things on official websites in official stories.
Wether SW:TOR is fun or not we will know the answer by March 2012
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
10 minutes of gameplay can hardly be enough because soemtimes a game does not show any depth at so little time. I will give this review the same weight ten mins does.
And if it would of been a glowing review you would have no problem with the 10 min review.
Nah if it was a glowing review then the roles would be reversed. The detractors would be saying yeah it looks great for that 10 mins but then every game looks great until the novelty wears off then it back to same old same old.
Neither side is immune to this. They both do it. You just hear the other sides defense (whichever happens to be contrary to the preview posted) more so then the other side when defense comes in of that idea.
People tend to defend their ideas more then attack.
Nah if it was a glowing review this thread would not been 27 pages long a we wouldn't be having this conversation. Seems to me that many SW/BioWare fans can't take the ruff with the smooth lol.
10 minutes of gameplay can hardly be enough because soemtimes a game does not show any depth at so little time. I will give this review the same weight ten mins does.
And if it would of been a glowing review you would have no problem with the 10 min review.
Nah if it was a glowing review then the roles would be reversed. The detractors would be saying yeah it looks great for that 10 mins but then every game looks great until the novelty wears off then it back to same old same old.
Neither side is immune to this. They both do it. You just hear the other sides defense (whichever happens to be contrary to the preview posted) more so then the other side when defense comes in of that idea.
People tend to defend their ideas more then attack.
Nah if it was a glowing review this thread would not been 27 pages long a we wouldn't be having this conversation. Seems to me that many SW/BioWare fans can't take the ruff with the smooth lol.
Nah. It just contraversial issues tend to get talked about more. Take a look at news. They don't talk about the guy who did his job great for 15 years because who gives a crap about that. But if he accidently or forced passes a law he said he was against 12 years ago. Everyone is talking about it. yet if the problem is solved and it comes to find out that he manage to overthrow that part a little bit later. Nothing is ever mention beyond that he stood up for what he believed and got what he wanted out of it. It's over in 30 seconds. But the issue with passing the law in the first place is talked about for weeks.
It's why micheal jackson made tons of songs people loved but what as he remembered for? the court cases at the end he was found innocent for. People love contraversy. It's human nature. Something that goes against the trend (such as bad reviews for a game that generally gets good ones) will sparke a debate faster then anything.
Edit: btw just to prove my point. it's not just BIoware/SW fans that can't take the ruff with the smooth. Take a look in GW2 (for example reference people don't get upset) at one of my posts called an interesting preview. That went on for a long time.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
"The key thing to remember is that MMOs have always used a select-and-cast ability targeting system for reasons of technical and financial feasibility. Standard MMO combat mechanics were designed to reduce the number of server calls and calculations required for a given action to the bare minimum. Those feasibility issues no longer exist on the current generation of server hardware, allowing developers to explore alternate gameplay options that would better suit their setting. Guild Wars 2, for example, has a large array of aimed abilities and real twitch-based evasion mechanics. The fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic didn't do something similar for lightsaber combat and force powers is almost baffling."
I'f youve played MMO's like WOW, SWG, Lineage2 and half dozen others for almost a decade like I have you may be sick and tired of said gameplay mechanic, I quit WoW many months ago and havent looked back. Funny thing is playing Rift for 2 weeks made me realize that if thats all there is to MMORPG's then I'll wait till someone does it right or atleast different. Even pong got old at one point, how long can developers expect people to be entertained by the same game(play)?
I've been saying for years exactly what the reviewer is stating in the quoted paragraph, almost no gameplay inovation in MMORPG since MMORPG was invented, and its not limited to MMORPG's either.
They just dont make em like they used to, take console games for example, remember final fantasy VII, VIII, IX? new combat system, world, setting, art style, characters everything with each sequel, thats being confident in your product and taking a chance. Not to mention 80-100hours of mostly story and fun gameplay elements like the train mission in FFVIII or the arcade and racing in FFIX.
I remember the disapointment I felt when I played FFXII, after the awe at the beautifull graphics wore off I found that the story was sparce and broken up by countless hours grind. so much so that I guess Square felt compelled to build into the combat system a way to automate your characters so in essence you were boting for hours to get from one story clip to another. The whole thing felt like they built the game untop of a failed f2p mmo experiment, maybe they used the FFXIV engine and just added some cutscenes and singleplayer elements...
Games like Zelda, remember Ocarina of Time? Super Mario 64 some of the very first 3dgames had gameplay mechanics that if anyone bothers to go back and play would see that those same mechanics are staples in today's games very litle if anything has changed... ok the visuals are better.
Thats the thing isnt it? either developers are more worried about increasing profit and so produce shallow games or the graphical evolution of the video game has advanced so far that the majority of development resources are spent on keeping games visualy competitive that there is little to spare for gameplay and content... I dont buy it, literaly and figuratively I'm not buying another game untill I know its of good quality, especialy gameplay wise, and I sugest everyone else do the same.
I think thats enough drunken ranting for one night, peace out!
FFS people stop calling every new MMO a WoW clone....
Devs stop making every new MMO a Wow clone...
fixed
I'm not surprised Another clone with voices.
If there is one thing I have learned about playing Morrowind and Oblivion its that voices made everything better.
Also who in the hell wouldn't want to be the most successful MMO to date? I am alway curious as to why people thing that if a game shares any simluarities with a another that is a WoW Clone? ToR from what I played is nothing like WoW with the exception of the combat and that is where the simularities end.
Thats like people saying they won't play Fallout because its a Morrowind clone and people are tired of it.
"The key thing to remember is that MMOs have always used a select-and-cast ability targeting system for reasons of technical and financial feasibility. Standard MMO combat mechanics were designed to reduce the number of server calls and calculations required for a given action to the bare minimum. Those feasibility issues no longer exist on the current generation of server hardware, allowing developers to explore alternate gameplay options that would better suit their setting. Guild Wars 2, for example, has a large array of aimed abilities and real twitch-based evasion mechanics. The fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic didn't do something similar for lightsaber combat and force powers is almost baffling."
I'f youve played MMO's like WOW, SWG, Lineage2 and half dozen others for almost a decade like I have you may be sick and tired of said gameplay mechanic, I quit WoW many months ago and havent looked back. Funny thing is playing Rift for 2 weeks made me realize that if thats all there is to MMORPG's then I'll wait till someone does it right or atleast different. Even pong got old at one point, how long can developers expect people to be entertained by the same game(play)?
I've been saying for years exactly what the reviewer is stating in the quoted paragraph, almost no gameplay inovation in MMORPG since MMORPG was invented, and its not limited to MMORPG's either.
They just dont make em like they used to, take console games for example, remember final fantasy VII, VIII, IX? new combat system, world, setting, art style, characters everything with each sequel, thats being confident in your product and taking a chance. Not to mention 80-100hours of mostly story and fun gameplay elements like the train mission in FFVIII or the arcade and racing in FFIX.
I remember the disapointment I felt when I played FFXII, after the awe at the beautifull graphics wore off I found that the story was sparce and broken up by countless hours grind. so much so that I guess Square felt compelled to build into the combat system a way to automate your characters so in essence you were boting for hours to get from one story clip to another. The whole thing felt like they built the game untop of a failed f2p mmo experiment, maybe they used the FFXIV engine and just added some cutscenes and singleplayer elements...
Games like Zelda, remember Ocarina of Time? Super Mario 64 some of the very first 3dgames had gameplay mechanics that if anyone bothers to go back and play would see that those same mechanics are staples in today's games very litle if anything has changed... ok the visuals are better.
Thats the thing isnt it? either developers are more worried about increasing profit and so produce shallow games or the graphical evolution of the video game has advanced so far that the majority of development resources are spent on keeping games visualy competitive that there is little to spare for gameplay and content... I dont buy it, literaly and figuratively I'm not buying another game untill I know its of good quality, especialy gameplay wise, and I sugest everyone else do the same.
I think thats enough drunken ranting for one night, peace out!
Well said, and I agree totally, like i stated once, its uses the same mechanics in MMOs over and over, develop better tech and reduce manpower, the profit vs cost ratio is not to create a better products to get more subs by quality/origianlity, it seems to be more profitable to make more money to reduce cost and keep current average monthy income revenue the same (you make money by reducing internal cost right) The only thing is, I dont blame the developers, they are the workers IMO. Its the Producers that are at fault, and they themselves only follow what customers respond to, not what they want, big difference there. And we are to blame; gamers love games and new shiney ones too! its a "catch 22" I dont really have an answer
What bugs me is that I grew up with games since the 8bit days and always thought that even the term Video Game was outdated that "Interactive Entertainment" would be the entertainment medium of the 21st century like Movies were for the 20th. But again other than visualy, games dont seem to be evolving, the artistry, craftmaship just isnt there.
Think about it this way, games are another way to tell a story, to experience something out of the ordinary and through technology story telling has evolved into mediums we know today, books then theatre, movies now games.
Just like movies needed to become talkies, games are missing a key component to truly count as the next entertainment medium and that something has to do with the human to digital interaction. Ingame thats gameplay but even gameplay is limited by the input devices we use, in the long run what we need is an evolution in the way we interact with games. Because even though games have evolved litle in terms of gameplay, input devices have evolved even less, thats to say I'm using what is esentialy a typewriter to play most modern games...
I should add that one of the reasons I like Bioware's games is that their storytelling is such that the games feel like a Movie or TV Show that you can interact with. Even though I'm not a fan of the Mass Effect 1 & 2 gameplay I own both titles for the story alone, and I think that everything from Neverwinter to Jade Empire(also own) is esentialy the same gameplay just diferent story or engine. One thing you can count on Bioware to do exceptionaly well is a good script I just wish they realized that and tried to build a game from the gameplay up since their writers never seem to miss the target.
I can see many people buying into the BioWare/SW hype but forgetting that BioWare have not just made good games they have made some poor games as well,same games different titles and skin type RPG. SWTOR problem will be longevity and that's where i think they are underestimating the MMO crowd and putting their faith in the single RPG crowd.
It will be the single player market wins out though because every new character they build will be like a new single player game to them. The MMO crowd will see it as a grinding new toon same game type mentality.
I might be wrong but who knows until 6 months from now.
Think about it this way, games are another way to tell a story, to experience something out of the ordinary and through technology story telling has evolved into mediums we know today, books then theatre, movies now games.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and have similar views about the unrealized potential of many of todays games. That said there are some diamonds in the rough, and game development hasn't been completely stagnant. Bioware for the most part is a good example of this. The Mass Effect series is simply amazing. The new Deus Ex is phenomenal, as is The Witcher 2.
You also have some really awesome console games that have come out. Shadow of the Colossus, LA Noire, Mirror's Edge, Uncharted 2. There are some really good games out there, but there's just so much crap that it's hard to sift through them.
I am also glad to see Bioware working in it's storytelling elements into the MMO space. I do think they are a good idea, even if there are a lot of issues they have to overcome to get it to feel right. I do like that they are trying to bring more storytelling elements into the game, and I agree that it is a major theme missing in todays games. Sad to say, I think the 2 main thing that is commonly forgotten about in gaming today, is storytelling and fun. You'd think they would be the first 2 things that game developers think about, but so many get sidetracked by all the gimmicks and mechanics they can throw at you, that they forget that the stuff has to be engaging and fun at the end of the day.
FFS people stop calling every new MMO a WoW clone....
Devs stop making every new MMO a Wow clone...
fixed
I'm not surprised Another clone with voices.
If there is one thing I have learned about playing Morrowind and Oblivion its that voices made everything better.
Also who in the hell wouldn't want to be the most successful MMO to date? I am alway curious as to why people thing that if a game shares any simluarities with a another that is a WoW Clone? ToR from what I played is nothing like WoW with the exception of the combat and that is where the simularities end.
Thats like people saying they won't play Fallout because its a Morrowind clone and people are tired of it.
Well maybe the reason why people are crying "wow clone" is because the devs themselves proudly admitted as much?
We can talk whether it's a good thing that SW:TOR is a WoW clone regarding the basic game mechanics, or is that a bad thing... But there really is no discussion whether it is a "clone" or not. It is. The devs said that it is a WoW clone and that anyone making a AAA mmo which is NOT a WoW clone is stupid.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
So, it is a WoW clone or do you want to take it up to Bioware and tell them that it is not a WoW clone? Do you know what SW:TOR is all about better than Bioware?
In summary, SW:TOR is WoW with a different setting, story and graphics with some novel improvements in sound and minor game mechanics. But the main mechanics and gameplay style is exactly the same as WoW's. Some people like that. We can say that probably the most mmo playerbase is happy enough with wow-style gameplay as is evident with the 10+ million subs that game has. This is the assumption Bioware is working on. Personally I think they missed the mark with this logic but hey, they might turn out to be right. If you liked WoW but grew tired of it's setting and content then SW:TOR is the game for you and it being a "WoW-clone" is actually a good thing.
(xcuse my weird english, im tired and not a native...)
I don't know if it's sad or funny how people try to criticize the writers opinion.
"He didn't do enough research before playing it, so it's no wonder he disliked it."
"He doesn't like theme park games anyway"
"There is no other way for MMORPGs than button smashing to do combat"
"You can't judge an MMORPG within 10 minutes of playing".
Come on guys... MMORPGs always try to show their best side within the first few minutes, to make people who play the game for the first time or are on a trial to be impressed and wanting to play the game more or buy it. If a game is boring during the first few minutes then it's kinda silly to hope that it will be better later on.
Still, it's just that guys opinion. So if you like a generic theme park mmorpg with a star wars skin: rejoice, preorder it, be happy. If you expected anything more: well, tough luck.
Comments
In any case, as soon as a trial comes out I'll give it a go. Always up for new things. If I like it, I like it. If it sucks, then I will shove funnels into my eyes and fill them with liquid drano in order to remove the horrendous suckiness that had been burned into my vision. Maybe smack myslef in the head with a mallet and maybe I'll forget the event ever took place. At least until I get an email saying that my trial has expired.
Getting too old for this $&17!
As oposed to an email asking you to fill out a survey about your beta experience when you don't remember receiving a beta invite!?
Someone didn't like an mmo because it used standard mmo buttons.
Big deal.
If that is what will make you not like a game no matter what else it may have to offer then there won't be any way to persuade the person. That is a person's right but when it comes to posting a blog or review of a game one has to put aside their peeves and objectively describe the experience.
If I were to buy a FPS game and suddenly find it went to mmo style keybinds and powers I would be upset. But to expect a game that has dozens of spell/power options to suddenly work like a FPS game simply because servers can handle it is somewhat stupid. There are many reasons why mmo's have done with this method. First and formost is that the server can manage all results without risk of client side hacks and macro's. WIth tons of different powers you still are forced to use multiple keybinds and combat pretty much only then differs by having to target someone or not. It changes from being apples and oranges to being oranges and mandarins.
Everyone who wants and 'evolution' in mmo combat inevitably asks for it to have FPS combat. They also tend to completely forget the drawbacks to this:
- you only now target FPS players. This hurts the mmo audience greatly as mmo's tend to attract a HUGE percentage of non-FPS gamers.
- there are still a ton of technical drawbacks to this type of combat.
- you force first person and/or reticle which many players simply cannot stand and ruins immersion for many. Being forced to face a limited arc at all times is actually very restrictive in what you can do. You ruin the option for panoramic camera views while in combat. You ruin styles of combat like healer combat many have come to love and team strategy playing where battlefield overhead vantages.
- responsiveness of FPS is balanced against simplification. You actually lose many options just to gain being able to attack where you want at what you want. These have to be taken into consideration. Responsiveness can be tweaked into any system in order to create the feel most want. Hell even Wow did this well even with their traditional setup and some FPS shooter games just plain suck because the failed in their mechanics.
The greatest argument for FPS style combat is that it is more fast paced and realistic. Well mmo's aren't always about being a combat sim. It is replicates much much more than that. Hell I would love to have seen something more original in SWTOR but once you play it and perhaps think it simply 'feels' right then they have done their job. I have played FPS style mmo's and to be perfectly honest the majority of them suck big time. There is a reason why no FPS mmo have become as popular or traditional mmo's.
Perhaps SWTOR will have options like CO where you can emulate FPS style combat (they gave tons of options for control because it's supports XBOX style controllers). Players can gain a sense of combat they like if this is the case. Lets hope so.
But until we can all play the game and find out (I have very limited in game time thus far due to complications on first beta weekend) there isn't much point griping about the game 99.5% done simply because it isn't Star Wars Call of Duty in one's mind.
You stay sassy!
Not to mention not even getting the email after receivng an invite:P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ouch.
What beta invite?
Getting too old for this $&17!
Oh nvm. Read it wrong. HOW THE F@#$! does THAT happen?!
Getting too old for this $&17!
Unless you're like my girl who NEVER deletes anything in her mailbox having over 1000 emails and checking it like once a month.
Getting too old for this $&17!
Nah if it was a glowing review then the roles would be reversed. The detractors would be saying yeah it looks great for that 10 mins but then every game looks great until the novelty wears off then it back to same old same old.
Neither side is immune to this. They both do it. You just hear the other sides defense (whichever happens to be contrary to the preview posted) more so then the other side when defense comes in of that idea.
People tend to defend their ideas more then attack.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The thing that bothers me with this full page article based on 10 minutes is that it is a full page article based on 10 minutes.
I do read many of the small quotes from those who had a chance to demo. Both positive and negative. But it is the few sentences that a 10 minute demo out of 1600+ hours of content should get. A review like this demo player had should be for something like the 7 hour press preview. Not just 10 minutes.
So I wouldn't care if this person didn't like aspects of the game. But to extrapolate to the entire game when he was still level 1 out of 50 doesn't make much sense. This was a tutorial that he probably ignored to try to go futher in his 10 minutes. Which is why he didn't know what was goining on or how to playl. Heck, it takes me more than 10 minutes to set up settings, keybinds and window placement the first time I start a new game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
This guy claims to know the gameplay of an MMO with 10 minutes starter zone experience... everyone knows by now that the traditional types of MMO's are slow starters, with very few skills to choose from in the first few minutes.
Basically , reporters have a right on an own opinion, but they also have the obligation to do torough research before posting it. People that post opinions based on 10 minutes hands on experience did not do their homework very toroughly and should so be punishable by law.... The power of the pen and internet is so huge these days that people should start realising how much hurt they cause by posting these things on official websites in official stories.
Wether SW:TOR is fun or not we will know the answer by March 2012
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Nah if it was a glowing review this thread would not been 27 pages long a we wouldn't be having this conversation. Seems to me that many SW/BioWare fans can't take the ruff with the smooth lol.
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
Nah. It just contraversial issues tend to get talked about more. Take a look at news. They don't talk about the guy who did his job great for 15 years because who gives a crap about that. But if he accidently or forced passes a law he said he was against 12 years ago. Everyone is talking about it. yet if the problem is solved and it comes to find out that he manage to overthrow that part a little bit later. Nothing is ever mention beyond that he stood up for what he believed and got what he wanted out of it. It's over in 30 seconds. But the issue with passing the law in the first place is talked about for weeks.
It's why micheal jackson made tons of songs people loved but what as he remembered for? the court cases at the end he was found innocent for. People love contraversy. It's human nature. Something that goes against the trend (such as bad reviews for a game that generally gets good ones) will sparke a debate faster then anything.
Edit: btw just to prove my point. it's not just BIoware/SW fans that can't take the ruff with the smooth. Take a look in GW2 (for example reference people don't get upset) at one of my posts called an interesting preview. That went on for a long time.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
World of Warcraft: The Old Republic
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
"The key thing to remember is that MMOs have always used a select-and-cast ability targeting system for reasons of technical and financial feasibility. Standard MMO combat mechanics were designed to reduce the number of server calls and calculations required for a given action to the bare minimum. Those feasibility issues no longer exist on the current generation of server hardware, allowing developers to explore alternate gameplay options that would better suit their setting. Guild Wars 2, for example, has a large array of aimed abilities and real twitch-based evasion mechanics. The fact that Star Wars: The Old Republic didn't do something similar for lightsaber combat and force powers is almost baffling."
I'f youve played MMO's like WOW, SWG, Lineage2 and half dozen others for almost a decade like I have you may be sick and tired of said gameplay mechanic, I quit WoW many months ago and havent looked back. Funny thing is playing Rift for 2 weeks made me realize that if thats all there is to MMORPG's then I'll wait till someone does it right or atleast different. Even pong got old at one point, how long can developers expect people to be entertained by the same game(play)?
I've been saying for years exactly what the reviewer is stating in the quoted paragraph, almost no gameplay inovation in MMORPG since MMORPG was invented, and its not limited to MMORPG's either.
They just dont make em like they used to, take console games for example, remember final fantasy VII, VIII, IX? new combat system, world, setting, art style, characters everything with each sequel, thats being confident in your product and taking a chance. Not to mention 80-100hours of mostly story and fun gameplay elements like the train mission in FFVIII or the arcade and racing in FFIX.
I remember the disapointment I felt when I played FFXII, after the awe at the beautifull graphics wore off I found that the story was sparce and broken up by countless hours grind. so much so that I guess Square felt compelled to build into the combat system a way to automate your characters so in essence you were boting for hours to get from one story clip to another. The whole thing felt like they built the game untop of a failed f2p mmo experiment, maybe they used the FFXIV engine and just added some cutscenes and singleplayer elements...
Games like Zelda, remember Ocarina of Time? Super Mario 64 some of the very first 3dgames had gameplay mechanics that if anyone bothers to go back and play would see that those same mechanics are staples in today's games very litle if anything has changed... ok the visuals are better.
Thats the thing isnt it? either developers are more worried about increasing profit and so produce shallow games or the graphical evolution of the video game has advanced so far that the majority of development resources are spent on keeping games visualy competitive that there is little to spare for gameplay and content... I dont buy it, literaly and figuratively I'm not buying another game untill I know its of good quality, especialy gameplay wise, and I sugest everyone else do the same.
I think thats enough drunken ranting for one night, peace out!
Devs stop making every new MMO a Wow clone...
fixed
I'm not surprised
Another clone with voices.
If there is one thing I have learned about playing Morrowind and Oblivion its that voices made everything better.
Also who in the hell wouldn't want to be the most successful MMO to date? I am alway curious as to why people thing that if a game shares any simluarities with a another that is a WoW Clone? ToR from what I played is nothing like WoW with the exception of the combat and that is where the simularities end.
Thats like people saying they won't play Fallout because its a Morrowind clone and people are tired of it.
Well said, and I agree totally, like i stated once, its uses the same mechanics in MMOs over and over, develop better tech and reduce manpower, the profit vs cost ratio is not to create a better products to get more subs by quality/origianlity, it seems to be more profitable to make more money to reduce cost and keep current average monthy income revenue the same (you make money by reducing internal cost right) The only thing is, I dont blame the developers, they are the workers IMO. Its the Producers that are at fault, and they themselves only follow what customers respond to, not what they want, big difference there. And we are to blame; gamers love games and new shiney ones too! its a "catch 22" I dont really have an answer
What bugs me is that I grew up with games since the 8bit days and always thought that even the term Video Game was outdated that "Interactive Entertainment" would be the entertainment medium of the 21st century like Movies were for the 20th. But again other than visualy, games dont seem to be evolving, the artistry, craftmaship just isnt there.
Think about it this way, games are another way to tell a story, to experience something out of the ordinary and through technology story telling has evolved into mediums we know today, books then theatre, movies now games.
Just like movies needed to become talkies, games are missing a key component to truly count as the next entertainment medium and that something has to do with the human to digital interaction. Ingame thats gameplay but even gameplay is limited by the input devices we use, in the long run what we need is an evolution in the way we interact with games. Because even though games have evolved litle in terms of gameplay, input devices have evolved even less, thats to say I'm using what is esentialy a typewriter to play most modern games...
I should add that one of the reasons I like Bioware's games is that their storytelling is such that the games feel like a Movie or TV Show that you can interact with. Even though I'm not a fan of the Mass Effect 1 & 2 gameplay I own both titles for the story alone, and I think that everything from Neverwinter to Jade Empire(also own) is esentialy the same gameplay just diferent story or engine. One thing you can count on Bioware to do exceptionaly well is a good script I just wish they realized that and tried to build a game from the gameplay up since their writers never seem to miss the target.
Maybe you should understand what the word clone means before telling game devs what to do? how about that?
I can see many people buying into the BioWare/SW hype but forgetting that BioWare have not just made good games they have made some poor games as well,same games different titles and skin type RPG. SWTOR problem will be longevity and that's where i think they are underestimating the MMO crowd and putting their faith in the single RPG crowd.
It will be the single player market wins out though because every new character they build will be like a new single player game to them. The MMO crowd will see it as a grinding new toon same game type mentality.
I might be wrong but who knows until 6 months from now.
http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Jesus/Jesus.htm
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, and have similar views about the unrealized potential of many of todays games. That said there are some diamonds in the rough, and game development hasn't been completely stagnant. Bioware for the most part is a good example of this. The Mass Effect series is simply amazing. The new Deus Ex is phenomenal, as is The Witcher 2.
You also have some really awesome console games that have come out. Shadow of the Colossus, LA Noire, Mirror's Edge, Uncharted 2. There are some really good games out there, but there's just so much crap that it's hard to sift through them.
I am also glad to see Bioware working in it's storytelling elements into the MMO space. I do think they are a good idea, even if there are a lot of issues they have to overcome to get it to feel right. I do like that they are trying to bring more storytelling elements into the game, and I agree that it is a major theme missing in todays games. Sad to say, I think the 2 main thing that is commonly forgotten about in gaming today, is storytelling and fun. You'd think they would be the first 2 things that game developers think about, but so many get sidetracked by all the gimmicks and mechanics they can throw at you, that they forget that the stuff has to be engaging and fun at the end of the day.
Well maybe the reason why people are crying "wow clone" is because the devs themselves proudly admitted as much?
We can talk whether it's a good thing that SW:TOR is a WoW clone regarding the basic game mechanics, or is that a bad thing... But there really is no discussion whether it is a "clone" or not. It is. The devs said that it is a WoW clone and that anyone making a AAA mmo which is NOT a WoW clone is stupid.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."
So, it is a WoW clone or do you want to take it up to Bioware and tell them that it is not a WoW clone? Do you know what SW:TOR is all about better than Bioware?
In summary, SW:TOR is WoW with a different setting, story and graphics with some novel improvements in sound and minor game mechanics. But the main mechanics and gameplay style is exactly the same as WoW's. Some people like that. We can say that probably the most mmo playerbase is happy enough with wow-style gameplay as is evident with the 10+ million subs that game has. This is the assumption Bioware is working on. Personally I think they missed the mark with this logic but hey, they might turn out to be right. If you liked WoW but grew tired of it's setting and content then SW:TOR is the game for you and it being a "WoW-clone" is actually a good thing.
(xcuse my weird english, im tired and not a native...)
I don't know if it's sad or funny how people try to criticize the writers opinion.
"He didn't do enough research before playing it, so it's no wonder he disliked it."
"He doesn't like theme park games anyway"
"There is no other way for MMORPGs than button smashing to do combat"
"You can't judge an MMORPG within 10 minutes of playing".
Come on guys... MMORPGs always try to show their best side within the first few minutes, to make people who play the game for the first time or are on a trial to be impressed and wanting to play the game more or buy it. If a game is boring during the first few minutes then it's kinda silly to hope that it will be better later on.
Still, it's just that guys opinion. So if you like a generic theme park mmorpg with a star wars skin: rejoice, preorder it, be happy. If you expected anything more: well, tough luck.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)