If people want a good analysis rather than stupid rambling, i think they have something at their front page, if not search what mmofringe have to say about SWTOR:
Can we get a mod clarification here if I am allowed to talk about the contents of the NDA please?
Or indeed if posters are allowed to say which beta group they are in (though I ahve seen a couple of folks already say which group they are in in threads tbh).
The official word from BioWare is you can say that you are in beta. That is it. No impressions, opinions, descriptions of materials, the NDA, none of it. I can't find the exact quote right now, but that is how they have put it. So we're basically sticking to that.
The Game Testing Agreement and You! | 06.24.2010 , 11:26 AM
We have seen many questions about the Game Testing Agreement and we want to clarify a few things.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, a user can state there is a Game Testing Program.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, when someone is selected for testing, they can disclose the fact that they are a member of the Game Testing Program.
That is the extent of it and anything else would be a violation of the Game Testing Agreement. Users that are found to post or even repost confidential materials (such as invitations, Game Tester Portal, etc) will be permanently removed from the Game Testing Program and subject to discipline up to and including permanent removal from the service. This is not limited to screenshots of the game but taking "screen grabs" or sharing of confidential documentation and materials.
If you have any questions pertaining to this, ask them here.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought no quests would entail killing X of Y? Aren't those only bonus quests? As in quests you don't have to do to progress the story?
Those are mostly bonus quests...
So the "opportunity" for me to go kill X/collect Y/deliver to Z... SW:TOR considers the chance for me to do these things to be a... a "bonus"?
Well if I wasn't excited about this before (I wasn't), I sure am not also now!
You misinterpret bonus. A bonus is on top of what you already get. For example, if you were to say, be forced to go steal a speeder, while in the area finding said speeder and you killed a mob (do you think you'd ever do that? Kill a mob on the way to a quest objective?) You would get a message that there is a bonus quest in the area to kill a certain amount of said mob. Now.... you can choose to do it or ignore it, or just go to the objective, finish and run away, but even if you choose to do nothing, and you go along with your original quest, if you just happen to kill more of that kind of mob, you'll get an XP boost.
It won't be like WoW where you HAVE to kill a certain amount to complete a quest, or like GW2 where you have to wrangle up 50 of something in a time frame or you lose an event. If you happen to kill that many of something in that area, while knowing about it or unknowingly, you get experience for it. Its unobtrusive and an additional *bonus* to what you'd already be doing.
They've outlined bonus quests a few times, but I understand not everyone is well versed on SWTOR.
Can we get a mod clarification here if I am allowed to talk about the contents of the NDA please?
Or indeed if posters are allowed to say which beta group they are in (though I ahve seen a couple of folks already say which group they are in in threads tbh).
The official word from BioWare is you can say that you are in beta. That is it. No impressions, opinions, descriptions of materials, the NDA, none of it. I can't find the exact quote right now, but that is how they have put it. So we're basically sticking to that.
The Game Testing Agreement and You! | 06.24.2010 , 11:26 AM
We have seen many questions about the Game Testing Agreement and we want to clarify a few things.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, a user can state there is a Game Testing Program.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, when someone is selected for testing, they can disclose the fact that they are a member of the Game Testing Program.
That is the extent of it and anything else would be a violation of the Game Testing Agreement. Users that are found to post or even repost confidential materials (such as invitations, Game Tester Portal, etc) will be permanently removed from the Game Testing Program and subject to discipline up to and including permanent removal from the service. This is not limited to screenshots of the game but taking "screen grabs" or sharing of confidential documentation and materials.
If you have any questions pertaining to this, ask them here.
LOL I love number 1. "A user can state there is a game testing program." The fact that this is even there makes me think that beta must have been like Fight Club before that rule was implemented.
Can we get a mod clarification here if I am allowed to talk about the contents of the NDA please?
Or indeed if posters are allowed to say which beta group they are in (though I ahve seen a couple of folks already say which group they are in in threads tbh).
The official word from BioWare is you can say that you are in beta. That is it. No impressions, opinions, descriptions of materials, the NDA, none of it. I can't find the exact quote right now, but that is how they have put it. So we're basically sticking to that.
The Game Testing Agreement and You! | 06.24.2010 , 11:26 AM
We have seen many questions about the Game Testing Agreement and we want to clarify a few things.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, a user can state there is a Game Testing Program.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, when someone is selected for testing, they can disclose the fact that they are a member of the Game Testing Program.
That is the extent of it and anything else would be a violation of the Game Testing Agreement. Users that are found to post or even repost confidential materials (such as invitations, Game Tester Portal, etc) will be permanently removed from the Game Testing Program and subject to discipline up to and including permanent removal from the service. This is not limited to screenshots of the game but taking "screen grabs" or sharing of confidential documentation and materials.
If you have any questions pertaining to this, ask them here.
LOL I love number 1. "A user can state there is a game testing program." The fact that this is even there makes me think that beta must have been like Fight Club before that rule was implemented.
First rule of game testing, you don't talk about game testing.
I've been asking question, after question, after question, after question for months now about simple things, for example: the availability of client downloads for early access,
I've never known any MMO company to announce how/when/if they will allow the client to be dowloaded before the day of release (release in this case being the first day of early access). I especially wouldn't expect this information 2 months before the game is released.
Having said that it's pretty easy to guess how it will work. If you purchase through Origin you will be able to download the game on the first day of the headstart. If you purchased from another source you have to wait until you have the box before you will be able to play.
or will pre-orders be compensated for lost "early access" due to server issues at pre-launch.
This is not something that they would announce beforehand and would deal with it if the situation arises. Just like every other MMO release. I wouldn't hold my breath for any sort of compensation though.
I've yet to see any sort of response from the forum mods or any of the devs.
And why should you? You are asking for information they probably haven't even decided on yet.
In fact, other than coming down with the "NDA" hammer occasionally, posting a sticky (with no replies allowed) or locking a thread, I don't see these people at all.
Bad communication from the community staff does not equal a bad game.
Is this what we can expect when it comes to customer service?
Customer service does not equal community reps.
Will SWTOR go through the credit card billing fiasco that Warhammer Online subscribers went through? Don't forget, it's EA that's providing the back bone on this. Game could be wonderful, but EA could still mess things up.
No argument from me there. But I doubt they would make the same mistake twice. Two different mistakes is not out of the question though.
Game looks good, the videos look great, but I'm coming down off the high that is SWTOR and I have to be honest I'm feeling more "meh" if anything. The last few releases have been shallow content at best. Is this going to be another raid/grind fest? Is it going to be one of those games that caters to those who play the game around the clock and tear through content exclusively?
That is definitely a no. The game caters to those of us who want a Bioware story to play through with our friends. From what I've seen the combat is mediocare at best, the classes, weapons, and armor are uninspired (you can only have so many different glow-swords) and the non-story elements of the game can only be described as resembling a generic hotkey MMO.
If you come into SWTOR expecting anything but a completely generic MMO experience (EQ2, WoW, LOTRO) with a ton of really interesting dialogue and story that your character can mildly influence, you are in for a big disappointment.
So many questions and no answers given.
Seems like the examples you gave for questions were unreasonable, in my opinion.
That's just it though, I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable, but merely cautious due to past experiences with this industry. It is my money and my right to ask these questions and it is also my right to be skittish when companies refuse to even acknowledge the question, let alone answer it. I'd be happy to have a "We don't know yet,but get back to you at a later date." versus no answer at all.
As far as this game being different from the others can you truly say that? Do you work for Bioware? Don't forget EA is in that mix too. When WoW released it was a game changer. Then it became more about the money and less about the actual game. I don't begrudge ANY company their want for money, but there is something to be said for putting your name on a product that you produce and people expecting a certain standard simply because of that name (in the business world this is referred to as good will and accounts for about half of a companies worth.)
I dunno, maybe I'm bitter. I've learned to expect the worst of a lot of these companies simply because I've not had great experiences that balanced out the bad ones. On a scale of good vs. bad, with EVERY company, it always leans towards the bad side. Maybe I am being unreasonable to expect a certain standard from a certain company for a certain value, but then again maybe not?
I love the social aspect of MMO's and to be honest it's the one area that seems to be going down the toilet in recent years. Case in point, I STILL chat with friends from my EQ days, people whom I've not been able to game with for almost ten years, yet I can only recall about 5 of people or less (per game)I played any other game with.
Maybe I'm just getting old and need to give this stuff up. We'll see.
Can we get a mod clarification here if I am allowed to talk about the contents of the NDA please?
Or indeed if posters are allowed to say which beta group they are in (though I ahve seen a couple of folks already say which group they are in in threads tbh).
The official word from BioWare is you can say that you are in beta. That is it. No impressions, opinions, descriptions of materials, the NDA, none of it. I can't find the exact quote right now, but that is how they have put it. So we're basically sticking to that.
I appreciate that, but can we say which beta goup we are/ were in and how long we tested for?
It's non game material related after all, and thats really what the question is about here. If not, this thread probably needs some clearing up
I appreciate that, but can we say which beta goup we are/ were in and how long we tested for?
It's non game material related after all, and thats really what the question is about here. If not, this thread probably needs some clearing up
I would imagine not, at least until the NDA drops, both of which amount to the same thing really.
You can say I am / I was in testing, but not say I tested from x date to y date etc. The latter part is giving out information that people would not normally have access to, which is a breach of the NDA (i.e. there was a group called blah I was a part of and we tested for yadayada time).
I know it seems like an arcane distinction, but that's what legal documents like NDAs are all about!
Thanks for the link, gaou. I'll have to save it for threads like this as we get into the home stretch.
Probably should also remind people confirming/denying certain posts can also be a breach of the NDA, I've caught myself a few times almost doing that, especially when people are breaching the NDA with info they're posting.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Probably should also remind people confirming/denying certain posts can also be a breach of the NDA, I've caught myself a few times almost doing that, especially when people are breaching the NDA with info they're posting.
Let me help.
Bioware doesn't want you to say anything. They told you what you can say... it literally boils down to 1 sentence (or 2, depending on how you break up the thoughts) - "There is a beta and I am in the beta."
They don't want you to say anything else. They don't want you to tell people how much you've played.... how long you've played... how long you've been in the beta... if you enjoy it... if you don't. They don't want your positive publicity... they don't want your negative publicity... they don't want you countering trolls with your knowledge... all they want you to do is beta test!
Bioware has a PR department and a marketing department... trust me - they have it covered. What they have ready for public consumption they release at trade shows... put in their own vids... or otherwise make publicly available.
And for the ones that just can't keep their knowledge inside... WHY do you have to come on the forums and tell everyone you are in the beta? So much of this game has been shown already... talk about what you've seen at a "trade show," or maybe just what you are "guessing" about... maybe something a dev said...
Of course... that option is out the window if you've already told us all you are in the beta - but keep it in mind for the next game.
And for the ones that just can't keep their knowledge inside... WHY do you have to come on the forums and tell everyone you are in the beta? So much of this game has been shown already... talk about what you've seen at a "trade show," or maybe just what you are "guessing" about... maybe something a dev said...
Of course... that option is out the window if you've already told us all you are in the beta - but keep it in mind for the next game.
People take those in the beta more seriously than others, for some odd reason. I've seen countless so-called intelligent posters give "I'm in the beta, and your opinion is wrong" as their be-all end-all argument, and that seems to fly with both moderators and posters. Let's just ignore the fact that people who dislike the game just quit the beta, and you have a horde of bias beta testers posting pretty much nothing and calling it proof that the game will succeed or that the game is good, or whatever.
At the same time, it's also advantageous to tell people you aren't in the beta, because of how itchy the mods are for any excuse to doll out an infraction or suspension. A simple "I'm not in the beta; all this info is freely available" is like a shield of protection against the mindless robot moderators.
So I don't fault anyone for giving away their beta status. They could be using their status as a shield, or to back up their argument, or whatever. Personally, I think "I'm in beta" is equal to, "I'm bias," so it stamps the forehead of all the fanboys trying to sell their opinions.
Comments
Thanks. Will try harder to write something crappy. I had in mind an article on DCUO...
here you go amana:
SeanDahlberg
Joined: Oct 2008
The Game Testing Agreement and You! | 06.24.2010 , 11:26 AM
We have seen many questions about the Game Testing Agreement and we want to clarify a few things.
That is the extent of it and anything else would be a violation of the Game Testing Agreement. Users that are found to post or even repost confidential materials (such as invitations, Game Tester Portal, etc) will be permanently removed from the Game Testing Program and subject to discipline up to and including permanent removal from the service. This is not limited to screenshots of the game but taking "screen grabs" or sharing of confidential documentation and materials.Per the Game Testing Agreement, a user can state there is a Game Testing Program.
Per the Game Testing Agreement, when someone is selected for testing, they can disclose the fact that they are a member of the Game Testing Program.
If you have any questions pertaining to this, ask them here.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=156174
You misinterpret bonus. A bonus is on top of what you already get. For example, if you were to say, be forced to go steal a speeder, while in the area finding said speeder and you killed a mob (do you think you'd ever do that? Kill a mob on the way to a quest objective?) You would get a message that there is a bonus quest in the area to kill a certain amount of said mob. Now.... you can choose to do it or ignore it, or just go to the objective, finish and run away, but even if you choose to do nothing, and you go along with your original quest, if you just happen to kill more of that kind of mob, you'll get an XP boost.
It won't be like WoW where you HAVE to kill a certain amount to complete a quest, or like GW2 where you have to wrangle up 50 of something in a time frame or you lose an event. If you happen to kill that many of something in that area, while knowing about it or unknowingly, you get experience for it. Its unobtrusive and an additional *bonus* to what you'd already be doing.
They've outlined bonus quests a few times, but I understand not everyone is well versed on SWTOR.
LOL I love number 1. "A user can state there is a game testing program." The fact that this is even there makes me think that beta must have been like Fight Club before that rule was implemented.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
First rule of game testing, you don't talk about game testing.
That's just it though, I don't feel like I'm being unreasonable, but merely cautious due to past experiences with this industry. It is my money and my right to ask these questions and it is also my right to be skittish when companies refuse to even acknowledge the question, let alone answer it. I'd be happy to have a "We don't know yet,but get back to you at a later date." versus no answer at all.
As far as this game being different from the others can you truly say that? Do you work for Bioware? Don't forget EA is in that mix too. When WoW released it was a game changer. Then it became more about the money and less about the actual game. I don't begrudge ANY company their want for money, but there is something to be said for putting your name on a product that you produce and people expecting a certain standard simply because of that name (in the business world this is referred to as good will and accounts for about half of a companies worth.)
I dunno, maybe I'm bitter. I've learned to expect the worst of a lot of these companies simply because I've not had great experiences that balanced out the bad ones. On a scale of good vs. bad, with EVERY company, it always leans towards the bad side. Maybe I am being unreasonable to expect a certain standard from a certain company for a certain value, but then again maybe not?
I love the social aspect of MMO's and to be honest it's the one area that seems to be going down the toilet in recent years. Case in point, I STILL chat with friends from my EQ days, people whom I've not been able to game with for almost ten years, yet I can only recall about 5 of people or less (per game)I played any other game with.
Maybe I'm just getting old and need to give this stuff up. We'll see.
I appreciate that, but can we say which beta goup we are/ were in and how long we tested for?
It's non game material related after all, and thats really what the question is about here. If not, this thread probably needs some clearing up
I would imagine not, at least until the NDA drops, both of which amount to the same thing really.
You can say I am / I was in testing, but not say I tested from x date to y date etc. The latter part is giving out information that people would not normally have access to, which is a breach of the NDA (i.e. there was a group called blah I was a part of and we tested for yadayada time).
I know it seems like an arcane distinction, but that's what legal documents like NDAs are all about!
That help?
Thanks for the link, gaou. I'll have to save it for threads like this as we get into the home stretch.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
Probably should also remind people confirming/denying certain posts can also be a breach of the NDA, I've caught myself a few times almost doing that, especially when people are breaching the NDA with info they're posting.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Let me help.
Bioware doesn't want you to say anything. They told you what you can say... it literally boils down to 1 sentence (or 2, depending on how you break up the thoughts) - "There is a beta and I am in the beta."
They don't want you to say anything else. They don't want you to tell people how much you've played.... how long you've played... how long you've been in the beta... if you enjoy it... if you don't. They don't want your positive publicity... they don't want your negative publicity... they don't want you countering trolls with your knowledge... all they want you to do is beta test!
Bioware has a PR department and a marketing department... trust me - they have it covered. What they have ready for public consumption they release at trade shows... put in their own vids... or otherwise make publicly available.
And for the ones that just can't keep their knowledge inside... WHY do you have to come on the forums and tell everyone you are in the beta? So much of this game has been shown already... talk about what you've seen at a "trade show," or maybe just what you are "guessing" about... maybe something a dev said...
Of course... that option is out the window if you've already told us all you are in the beta - but keep it in mind for the next game.
People take those in the beta more seriously than others, for some odd reason. I've seen countless so-called intelligent posters give "I'm in the beta, and your opinion is wrong" as their be-all end-all argument, and that seems to fly with both moderators and posters. Let's just ignore the fact that people who dislike the game just quit the beta, and you have a horde of bias beta testers posting pretty much nothing and calling it proof that the game will succeed or that the game is good, or whatever.
At the same time, it's also advantageous to tell people you aren't in the beta, because of how itchy the mods are for any excuse to doll out an infraction or suspension. A simple "I'm not in the beta; all this info is freely available" is like a shield of protection against the mindless robot moderators.
So I don't fault anyone for giving away their beta status. They could be using their status as a shield, or to back up their argument, or whatever. Personally, I think "I'm in beta" is equal to, "I'm bias," so it stamps the forehead of all the fanboys trying to sell their opinions.
Sarcasm is not a crime!