Not making a fancy post here. This is the preview I found. I was actually looking for something positive but this caught my attention. Just a preview though. Keep that in mind.
But it doest back up a lot of what people saying. People who are put off by the game at least.
I wouldn't use your colorful banter, but I do agree to a point.
There are some who just want to let others know about what has been said by a dev or a video or some new facts. Like posting from the dev tracker or the friday update or inteviews from game shows. Or being happy about getting an invite to test. But going overboard on the happy train is a problem as well. That is where most of the hype comes from. It comes from over the top fans, not the devs or company making a game.
So I agree, anyone stating that this will be the second coming as I said in my post is wrong as well. It is just a new AAA Themepark MMO. With a big IP and Developer. But the problem is also how the person reading something feels about the game. You said about "how TOR is going to revolutionize MMOs for the better". That IMO is something you infered from reading, not something said by any sane person posting about TOR. No dev has said this and very very few use the word revolutionize.
Innovation is thrown out there, but that is only the new way of telling a story. It will just be a polished and improved form of a Thempark with some new ideas and features along with the old. So the extremes on both sides don't make a lot of sense. The middle ground is where most should be, but this is the internets. It is designed for the extremes. I guess that is why coming here is so intertaining, and frustrating.
Yes, that was the implication, that many (more) objectivity-devoid fans constantly barrage forums with inferred proclamations of greatness. These people perpetuate the need for counterpoints grounded in realism.
Also, being deathly afraid of one's native spoken tongue does not a more civilized individual make.
Lol! Way to dig up a 6 month old article to somehow "prove" your "point". Are you really that desperate to tear down this game? Gotta love how people get so emotional because a gaming company doesn't make one aspect of gameplay THEIR way, so they spend countless hours trying to tear the whole game down and convince others not to buy it. The haters are emotional, plain and simple. If I didn't care for a game, I simply wouldn't bother thinking twice about it. I wouldn't spend days, weeks, months, years lurking on the boards trash talking it and pouncing on positive feedback/articles. It's like it will be a major tragedy in their lives if people actually love this game.
Time to move on. It's just a game.
Proving what point? Wasnt really trying to make one. And yea, Ive definitely got to learn to look at dates more. Didnt even notice the age of the preview. Apologies for that.
And in all due respect, I even said Bioware was one of my favorites. Once upon a time. Id rather they not fail. Or sully their reputation. Awhile back I was a frantic visitor of the Swtor forums and was very excited about the game. Its those CGI trailers that did it. They were amazing.
Then the more of the actual game I saw, the less I was impressed. Oh it took a long time to tear me down. But they managed. If the game is actually fantastic in the end I'll never be more glad to have been proven wrong. But so far Im very dissapointed. Hype didnt really factor into it. I just thought this was going to be something special.
Maybe it will be. But I see no indication of that yet.
When I am disapointed and dislike a game the first thing I do is go to its news section and post negative articals.
Cant say I neither dislike or am dissapointed. Perhaps a little disenchanted as time rolls by.
And first thing? First thing I do. Sure beans man. Guess I should have posted a postive one and ranted how it was wrong, or post this one and ranted how it was right. Too bad I did neither.
But do what ya like bud.
And I do apologize because these bad previews really do need to be swept under the rug. Good previews though? Oh those need to have all the pretty spotlights from the Twentith Century Fox intro shined on them and then God needs to extend his finger down on it just before you hear a "Diiiing" sound. I wont say what finger but I'll leave that to your imagination.
To be completely honest they can post what ever they like. Thats the power of the internet. There in itself i have no problem. I do take issue if the person doesn't understand how the game works and bashes it for common MMO mechanics. But that isn't the part your pointing out. The part i have a problem is when these previews are used to point out that hey my side is competely right. Take that other side (notice for fairness i'm not saying which side as this could work for both sides). Now even this i would be okay with if it was taking all types of reviews into account (positive/negative/neutral) but the all too common problem is people will hang on to one type of review and disregard the others.
Fans will hang onto the positive preview and say how the negative ones have no idea what they are talking about.
Detractors will hang onto negative previews and say how all the positive ones are either A: paid off, B: biased or whatever other reason to try and discredit the entire preview.
Me? i take all into account and look at everything. I do feel they lose a little crediability when they start bashing a game for not doing something that isn't possible yet like creating a new quest for every single person every single time. But thats just me.
What do i take from this previewer. He didn't like the game or it's mechanics and thought it was dull. Okay point taken. Me i don't see that but everyone is entitled to their opinion of the game. His impact on his decision is a bit dull when he states his reasons for it though as i've come to understand his gripes are more an MMO standard and how things are done then the problem with the game itself.
To end it no i don't think negative ones should be swept under the carpet or positive ones put into a spot light (btw to me that came off a little aggressive to me but meh). I'd want people to take the preview for what it is. a person opinion on the game. Not take it as solid fact and then throw it at the other side.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
If I am a rabid fanboy for something, I love the bad reviews. I love the haters coming along and posting their rants on how it's the worst thing in existence and must be nuked from orbit before negatively impacting one more iota of humanity.
Because then I get to prove them wrong.
And you know what's just plain disappointing about all these hate threads and bad reviews for this game? Nobody proves them wrong, or even argues really. And that tells me more than any positive review or rabid fanboy post could ever hope to achieve.
Of course, taking a few opinions from such a flawed species as humanity as absolute fact without some backup information would be complete stupidity, but with a bag of video proof to reinforce the negative hype, I think I can make a solid judgement.
And my judgement is: Meh. Story alone won't hold this game up for me. I hope it fails, just so developers get it through their thick neckbeards that WoW clones will not cut the mustard. I'll throw a million WoW clones under the bus and sacrifice all their developers to an angry demon god just to see one MMO game with the stuff it takes to be different.
Yes, that was the implication, that many (more) objectivity-devoid fans constantly barrage forums with inferred proclamations of greatness. These people perpetuate the need for counterpoints grounded in realism.
Also, being deathly afraid of one's native spoken tongue does not a more civilized individual make.
Chicken and egg argument. By the same logic, the constant barrage from the detractors who don't offer anything but the same tired complaints and talking points (omgwtfWoWClone, omgwtffSinglePlayerRPG, omgwtfWoWwithLightsabers!) only incite the more rabid fanboys to refute those claims with unrealistic declarations of epicness. Fact is, there are lunatics on boths sides. Many pollyanna fanboys who believe that the game will be perfect simply because it is Star Wars and BioWare, and the trolling haters who don't hate the actual game, just the "type" of game it is...but that won't stop them from pretending they know more than anyone else about what other people will like.
Fact is, if you don't like standard themepark MMOs, or are burned out on them, chances are you won't like this game. If you spend the money to try the game out despite these obstacles, you're an idiot. And if you refuse to play the game because you have the self-awareness to know it's not your cup of tea, yet still feel it's necessary to voice a very false opinion about what OTHER people will like or not like about it...once again, you're an idiot.
The game isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. And it's not supposed to be. But it will be a big success, because there are enough people that will enjoy that style of game. Saying otherwise is illogical.
Granted it is a six month old article, but that line at the end of the second paragraph will probably be a sentiment that a lot of these hyped up fans will be repeating in a few months after launch, when they start to get bored of it and drop off of the gear treadmill.
It's ok, when someone tires of gearing up, they can take a break and engage in factional warfare complete with territory control.
Or any of the other numerous activites available at end game.
Not making a fancy post here. This is the preview I found. I was actually looking for something positive but this caught my attention. Just a preview though. Keep that in mind.
But it doest back up a lot of what people saying. People who are put off by the game at least.
LMFAO!!!!!!!
Okay......okay. Need to check the date. I got it. HAHAHAHA......
I have a feeling this game will be a crash... and its not just how its turning out, but how over-hyped so many people are about it. As soon as you paint some eleberate picture of a game expecting it to be something, as soon as it delivers a product that doesn't live up to those standerds, it can be viewed negatively. It could be a genuinly good game as it stands but simply falls flat due to it not living up to expectations.
I really didn't think the game would turn out to be a power house. With starwars in involved, corners are potentially being cut since its possible to do so, using a franchize to boost its potential even if it might not be ready. Its a really bad misconception that in the case of Final Fantasy 14, really crushed the game. The false impression that the brand alone would keep people was what pretty much lead to a massive decline and a rush to try and patch up the holes that, lets face it, even with a massive overhall and change will be very difficult to attract people to come back to the game.
This review is an opinion. Sure some might not find it to play that way. I really have a feeling the review was tainted more so by such high hype for a game that the end product just never could live up to expectations. I'm sure its better then what they say but at the same time I'm sure its not some golden idol people were dreaming of when they expected the game to come out. You never really know until something is released, and just how you as a player will take the game.
I have a feeling this game will be a crash... and its not just how its turning out, but how over-hyped so many people are about it. As soon as you paint some eleberate picture of a game expecting it to be something, as soon as it delivers a product that doesn't live up to those standerds, it can be viewed negatively. It could be a genuinly good game as it stands but simply falls flat due to it not living up to expectations.
I really didn't think the game would turn out to be a power house. With starwars in involved, corners are potentially being cut since its possible to do so, using a franchize to boost its potential even if it might not be ready. Its a really bad misconception that in the case of Final Fantasy 14, really crushed the game. The false impression that the brand alone would keep people was what pretty much lead to a massive decline and a rush to try and patch up the holes that, lets face it, even with a massive overhall and change will be very difficult to attract people to come back to the game.
This review is an opinion. Sure some might not find it to play that way. I really have a feeling the review was tainted more so by such high hype for a game that the end product just never could live up to expectations. I'm sure its better then what they say but at the same time I'm sure its not some golden idol people were dreaming of when they expected the game to come out.
Well they say a lot on these forums (the posters) that no game can possibly ever live up to the hype. Thats untrue in my personal experience but it wasnt with mmos.
But crash? Burn? Nah. Swtor will be fine. I think a lot of the true fans are going to enjoy it. If you're familiar with WoW (who isnt) you'll find playing it easy enough. Graphics are okay. Its got voice overs and story! Not that I really think thats going to make a huge difference. But its Star Wars.
If you could play WoW, but Blizzard made a Star Wars server for the game, that server would be so flooded it would be stupid. They'd have to shut it down.
As far as Im concerned this game looks to be WoW converted into Star Wars, with voice overs. How well they copied it remains to be seen. I mean, they've already admited they modeled this after WoW. So if they did a superb job of at least doing a copy paste with a Star Wars theme, the game is going to be pretty big.
To be honest the guy seems like he is going out of his way yto bash the game. ON the other hand thought I wonder if a GW or vindictus style online rpg might of been a better format for swtor. What it seems we got is WoW interspliced with a bioware game.
This old preview was already mentioned in several other topics with link lol.
You stumble by accident on this preview lol, while your seeking a possitive preview, i realy doub that hehe.
But negative or positive previews will not change the fact that prolly millions will play it, even tho it will be same old same old WoW/EQ clone in starwars settings, mass wants it so they get it nomatter how hard haters try convince others its a copy of copy of copy only worse:P
1. Star Wars is World of Warcraft (being the most common thing to use at this time for comparison) - Take away Star Wars and you just have a World of Warcraft in space. There's nothing that really sets it apart from any other MMO out there. Space Combat is a set destination that you just move a mouse around to attack targets, you have no freedom of movement.
2. You have companions - They basically make it a single player Bioware MMO. Sure they can fill in spots in some groups, but otherwise you have someone to solo with. Limiting the need for social interaction (Sorry general chat is not social, it's for trolls)
3. Quests - Quest after quest after quest, with most being the same just with different mobs but same type (collection, kill this many and so on)
4. It's level based - so once you hit max level you are left to wait for more content or Raids (which is constant grinding in itself, that gets boring); and some people level faster then others. Don't tell me to level another character to wait... why should I? I should have enough to keep me entertained, which for some that have skills to level up, you at least have multiple things to do.
5. Level based means lack of friends who are casual. You're hardcore who likes to level and once you're to high you can't really play with your friend who maybe jumps twice a week; and hey your friend joined because they want to hang out with you (beyond actually going to their or your house). Which makes skill based level games better because even low level skills can still do something and have fun with their friends.
6 and so on, and so on... Good Voices for the game but you can't fast forward them (at the moment) but they don't really add much to the game (you don't need to read the text anymore just listen to it now)
When I am disapointed and dislike a game the first thing I do is go to its news section and post negative articals.
And everyone must be just like you.
I think this sites community would better then it does currently, which is nothing more then a bunch of GW2 obsessed Sand box loving WoW haters.
Its cool if you are uniterested in a game and say so but to do 50 million times is a little idiotic on your behalf.
Obsessed as in "I can't let a negative SWTOR comment pass by without throwing GW2 into the mess, just because I've got no better argument to make so I thought I'd stir the shit"?
You mean that kind of obsessed? Yeah, I'm pretty sick of that too.
To be honest the guy seems like he is going out of his way yto bash the game. ON the other hand thought I wonder if a GW or vindictus style online rpg might of been a better format for swtor. What it seems we got is WoW interspliced with a bioware game.
Hmm that would made it better if it had a Vindictus style of playing. I'm just playing it in my head now with Vindictus and I like the thought of it, and wish they would of went for that style instead of the Wow based one.
Basically it comes down to the money and what form works right now; and sadly this is what works. No business really wants to chance some new area and not make a go of it; and a majority of us have become lazy and won't want to take a chance at change. We've been babied to much.
1. Star Wars is World of Warcraft (being the most common thing to use at this time for comparison) - Take away Star Wars and you just have a World of Warcraft in space. There's nothing that really sets it apart from any other MMO out there. Space Combat is a set destination that you just move a mouse around to attack targets, you have no freedom of movement.
2. You have companions - They basically make it a single player Bioware MMO. Sure they can fill in spots in some groups, but otherwise you have someone to solo with. Limiting the need for social interaction (Sorry general chat is not social, it's for trolls)
3. Quests - Quest after quest after quest, with most being the same just with different mobs but same type (collection, kill this many and so on)
4. It's level based - so once you hit max level you are left to wait for more content or Raids (which is constant grinding in itself, that gets boring); and some people level faster then others. Don't tell me to level another character to wait... why should I? I should have enough to keep me entertained, which for some that have skills to level up, you at least have multiple things to do.
5. Level based means lack of friends who are casual. You're hardcore who likes to level and once you're to high you can't really play with your friend who maybe jumps twice a week; and hey your friend joined because they want to hang out with you (beyond actually going to their or your house). Which makes skill based level games better because even low level skills can still do something and have fun with their friends.
6 and so on, and so on... Good Voices for the game but you can't fast forward them (at the moment) but they don't really add much to the game (you don't need to read the text anymore just listen to it now)
Great post. This is exactly how I see it, which is just incredibly sad. It seems they've done so little to innovate that aside from voice acting, there really isn't anything even the developers can brag about.
Take even Lightsabers for example. If I hit a guy in generic armor with a lightsaber, I expect that guy to end up in more pieces than he started out with. I get the sound of a lightsaber swinging, and it looks like a lightsaber, but it just bounces off the guy like a nerf sword. What!
When I am disapointed and dislike a game the first thing I do is go to its news section and post negative articals.
And everyone must be just like you.
I think this sites community would better then it does currently, which is nothing more then a bunch of GW2 obsessed Sand box loving WoW haters.
Its cool if you are uniterested in a game and say so but to do 50 million times is a little idiotic on your behalf.
Obsessed as in "I can't let a negative SWTOR comment pass by without throwing GW2 into the mess, just because I've got no better argument to make so I thought I'd stir the shit"?
You mean that kind of obsessed? Yeah, I'm pretty sick of that too.
EDIT: Snip'd some extraneous quotage.
go read on some other threads that I posted on today.
I simple don't give a fuck anymore about any one reviewers opinion, the only ones that matters is mine.
Fuck the PC Gamer review too, his opinion isn't mine.
1. Star Wars is World of Warcraft (being the most common thing to use at this time for comparison) - Take away Star Wars and you just have a World of Warcraft in space. There's nothing that really sets it apart from any other MMO out there. Space Combat is a set destination that you just move a mouse around to attack targets, you have no freedom of movement.
2. You have companions - They basically make it a single player Bioware MMO. Sure they can fill in spots in some groups, but otherwise you have someone to solo with. Limiting the need for social interaction (Sorry general chat is not social, it's for trolls)
3. Quests - Quest after quest after quest, with most being the same just with different mobs but same type (collection, kill this many and so on)
4. It's level based - so once you hit max level you are left to wait for more content or Raids (which is constant grinding in itself, that gets boring); and some people level faster then others. Don't tell me to level another character to wait... why should I? I should have enough to keep me entertained, which for some that have skills to level up, you at least have multiple things to do.
5. Level based means lack of friends who are casual. You're hardcore who likes to level and once you're to high you can't really play with your friend who maybe jumps twice a week; and hey your friend joined because they want to hang out with you (beyond actually going to their or your house). Which makes skill based level games better because even low level skills can still do something and have fun with their friends.
6 and so on, and so on... Good Voices for the game but you can't fast forward them (at the moment) but they don't really add much to the game (you don't need to read the text anymore just listen to it now)
Great post. This is exactly how I see it, which is just incredibly sad. It seems they've done so little to innovate that aside from voice acting, there really isn't anything even the developers can brag about.
Take even Lightsabers for example. If I hit a guy in generic armor with a lightsaber, I expect that guy to end up in more pieces than he started out with. I get the sound of a lightsaber swinging, and it looks like a lightsaber, but it just bounces off the guy like a nerf sword. What!
Hmmm, lets have a look.
1) Its a MMORPG the core mechanics are there its not a WOW copy its a mmorpg holdin true to the mmorpg elements just like WOW did. You dont reinvent the wheel everytime you build a new car you improve on whats established.
2) Companions are different, they are an addition to the classic mmorpg every class is now a pet class, and yes this does make soloing easier and perhaps more fun. BUT lets be honest you want to socialise be in a guild and hey talk to people the say and the ooc is not just for trolls. In modern games people group up for a purpose and then break up when the purpose is finished. This isnt a developers fault its ours we as players have become so objective orientated that anything not leaading to the objective is abanadoned as time wasting an unnecessary. You want to socilise then find like minded people and do so.
3) Its a quest driven themepark THATS WHAT IT IS. Complaining about it ia like buying a motorbike and complaining it isnt a jet ski.
4)Its a mechanic one of the clasic golden oldies which shows your character developing from pleb to interglatic hero. Guess what this isnt a good or bad point its just a style. Some games work on the sill grind sysem others on the leveling system. But this is just a mechanic take it or leave it.
5) Your hardcore and your friends are casual, why not make a casual character to play when they are about and your hardcore main for when your not with them.... Of course this would mean YOU would have to actually act like a friend and be social. Seriously the game is here to play situations like this are for you to deal with not for a forced mechanic to be implemented to do it for you.
6) You don't want the story, then why play th game ? Seriously a mmorpg which has as one of its foundations full voice acting and heavy story driven plot and you want to kip the plot and voice ???
Last pont you want lightsabres to be insta kill ?? I guess you want the same with the blasters after all no matter how much armour they had on a stormtrooper dropped with a blaster bolt to the chest. But guess what this isnt a fps its a mmorpg sometimes there need to be sacrifices to make it work.
1) Its a MMORPG the core mechanics are there its not a WOW copy its a mmorpg holdin true to the mmorpg elements just like WOW did. You dont reinvent the wheel everytime you build a new car you improve on whats established.
I responded to this post in reverse order, and you've made zero compelling arguments to show that this is anything but a WoW clone. In fact, almost every "point" you make is an excuse as to why they cloned WoW, not how it's different.
Using a car analogy is flawed, because cars perform a valuable job. MMO games are purely for entertainment, and the previous MMORPGs have become old and tired. It's either innovate or die; if you haven't seen as much by the successes and failures so far, you must have had your eyes glued shut.
Plus, every form of entertainment in a car gives the user absolute control. Movies and music allow for near-infinite choices, while themepark MMO games are locked down.
Originally posted by Gadareth
2) Companions are different, they are an addition to the classic mmorpg every class is now a pet class, and yes this does make soloing easier and perhaps more fun. BUT lets be honest you want to socialise be in a guild and hey talk to people the say and the ooc is not just for trolls. In modern games people group up for a purpose and then break up when the purpose is finished. This isnt a developers fault its ours we as players have become so objective orientated that anything not leaading to the objective is abanadoned as time wasting an unnecessary. You want to socilise then find like minded people and do so.
You say they break up when their purpose is finished, so why not make the "purpose" take longer to achieve, or create more incentive to group up? It is absolutely the developer's fault for not giving people a good reason to socialize.
Originally posted by Gadareth
3) Its a quest driven themepark THATS WHAT IT IS. Complaining about it ia like buying a motorbike and complaining it isnt a jet ski.
No, complaining about it is like buying a motorbike and complaining about getting the old motorbike you just traded in.
Originally posted by Gadareth
4)Its a mechanic one of the clasic golden oldies which shows your character developing from pleb to interglatic hero. Guess what this isnt a good or bad point its just a style. Some games work on the sill grind sysem others on the leveling system. But this is just a mechanic take it or leave it.
5) Your hardcore and your friends are casual, why not make a casual character to play when they are about and your hardcore main for when your not with them.... Of course this would mean YOU would have to actually act like a friend and be social. Seriously the game is here to play situations like this are for you to deal with not for a forced mechanic to be implemented to do it for you.
Look up the Guild Wars 2 sidekick system, or any game without levels. The leveling system in MMO games today requires that the developers either split their time between a ton of levels to give them all content, or only focus on the max. If they only focus on the max, then all the other levels become "story time," which is only interesting the first time through.
If developers would remove levels, then those years spent creating the leveling content could be spent on a single "end game," providing an immense amount of stuff to do that doesn't immediately fall into obsolescence like the leveling content.
Originally posted by Gadareth
6) You don't want the story, then why play th game ? Seriously a mmorpg which has as one of its foundations full voice acting and heavy story driven plot and you want to kip the plot and voice ???
Gameplay > Story Gameplay > Story Gameplay > Story
No exceptions. This is an MMO game, not a single player RPG. At least that's what I've been lead to believe. :P
Originally posted by Gadareth
Last pont you want lightsabres to be insta kill ?? I guess you want the same with the blasters after all no matter how much armour they had on a stormtrooper dropped with a blaster bolt to the chest. But guess what this isnt a fps its a mmorpg sometimes there need to be sacrifices to make it work.
Yes, I want lightsabers to instantly kill things. I can accept the blaster bolt not killing people instantly because that isn't an iconic part of Star Wars. But if you're going to dumb down such a huge part of the intellectual property, then what's the point of putting it in? In pretty much every major Star Wars scene involving Jedi, someone ends up with something chopped off by a lightsaber. By putting lightsabers in the game in the state they're in, they've completely failed to capture the atmosphere and immersion that comes with the Star Wars franchise.
1) Its a MMORPG the core mechanics are there its not a WOW copy its a mmorpg holdin true to the mmorpg elements just like WOW did. You dont reinvent the wheel everytime you build a new car you improve on whats established.
I responded to this post in reverse order, and you've made zero compelling arguments to show that this is anything but a WoW clone. In fact, almost every "point" you make is an excuse as to why they cloned WoW, not how it's different.
Using a car analogy is flawed, because cars perform a valuable job. MMO games are purely for entertainment, and the previous MMORPGs have become old and tired. It's either innovate or die; if you haven't seen as much by the successes and failures so far, you must have had your eyes glued shut.
Plus, every form of entertainment in a car gives the user absolute control. Movies and music allow for near-infinite choices, while themepark MMO games are locked down.
Originally posted by Gadareth
2) Companions are different, they are an addition to the classic mmorpg every class is now a pet class, and yes this does make soloing easier and perhaps more fun. BUT lets be honest you want to socialise be in a guild and hey talk to people the say and the ooc is not just for trolls. In modern games people group up for a purpose and then break up when the purpose is finished. This isnt a developers fault its ours we as players have become so objective orientated that anything not leaading to the objective is abanadoned as time wasting an unnecessary. You want to socilise then find like minded people and do so.
You say they break up when their purpose is finished, so why not make the "purpose" take longer to achieve, or create more incentive to group up? It is absolutely the developer's fault for not giving people a good reason to socialize.
Originally posted by Gadareth
3) Its a quest driven themepark THATS WHAT IT IS. Complaining about it ia like buying a motorbike and complaining it isnt a jet ski.
No, complaining about it is like buying a motorbike and complaining about getting the old motorbike you just traded in.
Originally posted by Gadareth
4)Its a mechanic one of the clasic golden oldies which shows your character developing from pleb to interglatic hero. Guess what this isnt a good or bad point its just a style. Some games work on the sill grind sysem others on the leveling system. But this is just a mechanic take it or leave it.
5) Your hardcore and your friends are casual, why not make a casual character to play when they are about and your hardcore main for when your not with them.... Of course this would mean YOU would have to actually act like a friend and be social. Seriously the game is here to play situations like this are for you to deal with not for a forced mechanic to be implemented to do it for you.
Look up the Guild Wars 2 sidekick system, or any game without levels. The leveling system in MMO games today requires that the developers either split their time between a ton of levels to give them all content, or only focus on the max. If they only focus on the max, then all the other levels become "story time," which is only interesting the first time through.
If developers would remove levels, then those years spent creating the leveling content could be spent on a single "end game," providing an immense amount of stuff to do that doesn't immediately fall into obsolescence like the leveling content.
Originally posted by Gadareth
6) You don't want the story, then why play th game ? Seriously a mmorpg which has as one of its foundations full voice acting and heavy story driven plot and you want to kip the plot and voice ???
Gameplay > Story
Gameplay > Story
Gameplay > Story
No exceptions. This is an MMO game, not a single player RPG. At least that's what I've been lead to believe. :P
Originally posted by Gadareth
Last pont you want lightsabres to be insta kill ?? I guess you want the same with the blasters after all no matter how much armour they had on a stormtrooper dropped with a blaster bolt to the chest. But guess what this isnt a fps its a mmorpg sometimes there need to be sacrifices to make it work.
Yes, I want lightsabers to instantly kill things. I can accept the blaster bolt not killing people instantly because that isn't an iconic part of Star Wars. But if you're going to dumb down such a huge part of the intellectual property, then what's the point of putting it in? In pretty much every major Star Wars scene involving Jedi, someone ends up with something chopped off by a lightsaber. By putting lightsabers in the game in the state they're in, they've completely failed to capture the atmosphere and immersion that comes with the Star Wars franchise.
Bascially what your saying is you the focus and direction in which SWTOR is heading in is not the one for you. Yes it uses the classic MMORPG formula well guess what a lot of people LIKE this formula. Using it does not make it any less Star Wars. Just because WOW uses it is not a bad thing. As for the car comparision buying a Mercedes Benz does not mean you just bought yourself a Jaguar copy. Even if both cars have four wheels and go vroom.
The difference is in the emphasis, SWTOR is focused on story it uses the classic themepark style to deliver it. As for gameplay its there, its not Sandbox and never ever claimed it was. If you do not like the classic mmorpg style then to be honest don't play the game simple. Its not intended for you. If you want insta death and limbs removed then play a different game their are ones out there for you.
A lightsabre cutting you down in a single hit is a classic mechanic of star wars lore but so is a blaster bolt in the chest kills you regardles of your armour. Look at the films people did not shrug them off. But its a mmorpg and not a twitch game you want twitch games go play a fps version.
Level based gameplay works well in themepark settings and skill based games work best in sandboxes especially ones in which a heavy focus on PvP is expected. With a thempark game levels are a great way of showing your progression from noob to an elite. From a rookie to a veterern.
These games are not all about end game and never ever should be. The end game should in my opinion just be a holding pattern until more content is released. The idea of the game begins at end game is silly the game begins with your first step.
Socially you get out what you put in. If you want to socialise and group up then do so find like minded people form a party form a guild and have fun. The mechanics are there to support you and better yet if you cannot find that vital extra memeber you can use a companion to help out.
So far your arguments break down to this :-
a) I don't like classic MMORPG style of game play (as used by WOW and most other mmorpgs)
b) I want lightsabres to kill instantly to hell with game balance
c) I dont like themepark games
d) I need the game to force people to play with me.
If these points truly represent your opinions then I am sorry but SWToR may not be the game for you. As your dislike seems to be about the overall game desgin. Perhaps a FPS version will be released at a later date and that I suspect will be more up your ally. Woudl the game you want be a good game... YEs probably if done right and in fact SWG tried originally to do so BUT its not the only way.
SWG focused on freedom to do what you wanted your way this game has a different focus its focus is story and your decsisons do you do this or do you do that. Your choices in some cases have no major effect and in others change the entire focus of the encounter. So your decsions carry weight.
You need to remember a MMORPG needs to follow certain rules insta death is really not part of a mmorpg design and as such sacrifices need to be made from perceived reality and playability.
For me and probably others, the dissapointment is more along the lines that we wanted a different MMO for Star Wars. SWTOR and GW2 are going to be my last mmos to enjoy, I'm just getting to the point in life where other things are more important, but I would still like to go out with a bang with a great, innovative mmo to show for all the time I've spent playing them. Instead we get something that really offers the same and that is just depressing. I simply wanted a game that is backed by a great set of devs, which it is, and offer the next step in the mmo evolution... but they took the gravey train. That's why I am unhappy with SWTOR and why the negative reviews carry some weight, because we need to see both sides.
So my point is, not all of us spew unwarranted hate for SWTOR - we were just let down that we are being offered the same thing and that's not what we wanted for the next Star Wars mmo. Eight years is too long for me to wait for another studio to do a Star Wars game (SWG 2003). I'm sure it could be sooner, but nothing I would hold my breath for
To be honest the guy seems like he is going out of his way yto bash the game. ON the other hand thought I wonder if a GW or vindictus style online rpg might of been a better format for swtor. What it seems we got is WoW interspliced with a bioware game.
Hmm that would made it better if it had a Vindictus style of playing. I'm just playing it in my head now with Vindictus and I like the thought of it, and wish they would of went for that style instead of the Wow based one.
Basically it comes down to the money and what form works right now; and sadly this is what works. No business really wants to chance some new area and not make a go of it; and a majority of us have become lazy and won't want to take a chance at change. We've been babied to much.
I am mostly saying online rpg format instead of MMO format, not switch combat.
Not making a fancy post here. This is the preview I found. I was actually looking for something positive but this caught my attention. Just a preview though. Keep that in mind.
But it doest back up a lot of what people saying. People who are put off by the game at least.
"...is that it’s one of the most boring titles we’ve ever had to endure. ""
Wow, even I wouldnt have gone that far.
Overall though the piece is harsh but fair, and pretty still spot on.
Comments
Yes, that was the implication, that many (more) objectivity-devoid fans constantly barrage forums with inferred proclamations of greatness. These people perpetuate the need for counterpoints grounded in realism.
Also, being deathly afraid of one's native spoken tongue does not a more civilized individual make.
To be completely honest they can post what ever they like. Thats the power of the internet. There in itself i have no problem. I do take issue if the person doesn't understand how the game works and bashes it for common MMO mechanics. But that isn't the part your pointing out. The part i have a problem is when these previews are used to point out that hey my side is competely right. Take that other side (notice for fairness i'm not saying which side as this could work for both sides). Now even this i would be okay with if it was taking all types of reviews into account (positive/negative/neutral) but the all too common problem is people will hang on to one type of review and disregard the others.
Fans will hang onto the positive preview and say how the negative ones have no idea what they are talking about.
Detractors will hang onto negative previews and say how all the positive ones are either A: paid off, B: biased or whatever other reason to try and discredit the entire preview.
Me? i take all into account and look at everything. I do feel they lose a little crediability when they start bashing a game for not doing something that isn't possible yet like creating a new quest for every single person every single time. But thats just me.
What do i take from this previewer. He didn't like the game or it's mechanics and thought it was dull. Okay point taken. Me i don't see that but everyone is entitled to their opinion of the game. His impact on his decision is a bit dull when he states his reasons for it though as i've come to understand his gripes are more an MMO standard and how things are done then the problem with the game itself.
To end it no i don't think negative ones should be swept under the carpet or positive ones put into a spot light (btw to me that came off a little aggressive to me but meh). I'd want people to take the preview for what it is. a person opinion on the game. Not take it as solid fact and then throw it at the other side.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
So much hate and drama.
If I am a rabid fanboy for something, I love the bad reviews. I love the haters coming along and posting their rants on how it's the worst thing in existence and must be nuked from orbit before negatively impacting one more iota of humanity.
Because then I get to prove them wrong.
And you know what's just plain disappointing about all these hate threads and bad reviews for this game? Nobody proves them wrong, or even argues really. And that tells me more than any positive review or rabid fanboy post could ever hope to achieve.
Of course, taking a few opinions from such a flawed species as humanity as absolute fact without some backup information would be complete stupidity, but with a bag of video proof to reinforce the negative hype, I think I can make a solid judgement.
And my judgement is: Meh. Story alone won't hold this game up for me. I hope it fails, just so developers get it through their thick neckbeards that WoW clones will not cut the mustard. I'll throw a million WoW clones under the bus and sacrifice all their developers to an angry demon god just to see one MMO game with the stuff it takes to be different.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Chicken and egg argument. By the same logic, the constant barrage from the detractors who don't offer anything but the same tired complaints and talking points (omgwtfWoWClone, omgwtffSinglePlayerRPG, omgwtfWoWwithLightsabers!) only incite the more rabid fanboys to refute those claims with unrealistic declarations of epicness. Fact is, there are lunatics on boths sides. Many pollyanna fanboys who believe that the game will be perfect simply because it is Star Wars and BioWare, and the trolling haters who don't hate the actual game, just the "type" of game it is...but that won't stop them from pretending they know more than anyone else about what other people will like.
Fact is, if you don't like standard themepark MMOs, or are burned out on them, chances are you won't like this game. If you spend the money to try the game out despite these obstacles, you're an idiot. And if you refuse to play the game because you have the self-awareness to know it's not your cup of tea, yet still feel it's necessary to voice a very false opinion about what OTHER people will like or not like about it...once again, you're an idiot.
The game isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. And it's not supposed to be. But it will be a big success, because there are enough people that will enjoy that style of game. Saying otherwise is illogical.
It's ok, when someone tires of gearing up, they can take a break and engage in factional warfare complete with territory control.
Or any of the other numerous activites available at end game.
LMFAO!!!!!!!
Okay......okay. Need to check the date. I got it. HAHAHAHA......
I have a feeling this game will be a crash... and its not just how its turning out, but how over-hyped so many people are about it. As soon as you paint some eleberate picture of a game expecting it to be something, as soon as it delivers a product that doesn't live up to those standerds, it can be viewed negatively. It could be a genuinly good game as it stands but simply falls flat due to it not living up to expectations.
I really didn't think the game would turn out to be a power house. With starwars in involved, corners are potentially being cut since its possible to do so, using a franchize to boost its potential even if it might not be ready. Its a really bad misconception that in the case of Final Fantasy 14, really crushed the game. The false impression that the brand alone would keep people was what pretty much lead to a massive decline and a rush to try and patch up the holes that, lets face it, even with a massive overhall and change will be very difficult to attract people to come back to the game.
This review is an opinion. Sure some might not find it to play that way. I really have a feeling the review was tainted more so by such high hype for a game that the end product just never could live up to expectations. I'm sure its better then what they say but at the same time I'm sure its not some golden idol people were dreaming of when they expected the game to come out. You never really know until something is released, and just how you as a player will take the game.
Well they say a lot on these forums (the posters) that no game can possibly ever live up to the hype. Thats untrue in my personal experience but it wasnt with mmos.
But crash? Burn? Nah. Swtor will be fine. I think a lot of the true fans are going to enjoy it. If you're familiar with WoW (who isnt) you'll find playing it easy enough. Graphics are okay. Its got voice overs and story! Not that I really think thats going to make a huge difference. But its Star Wars.
If you could play WoW, but Blizzard made a Star Wars server for the game, that server would be so flooded it would be stupid. They'd have to shut it down.
As far as Im concerned this game looks to be WoW converted into Star Wars, with voice overs. How well they copied it remains to be seen. I mean, they've already admited they modeled this after WoW. So if they did a superb job of at least doing a copy paste with a Star Wars theme, the game is going to be pretty big.
For how long Im not sure.
To be honest the guy seems like he is going out of his way yto bash the game. ON the other hand thought I wonder if a GW or vindictus style online rpg might of been a better format for swtor. What it seems we got is WoW interspliced with a bioware game.
This old preview was already mentioned in several other topics with link lol.
You stumble by accident on this preview lol, while your seeking a possitive preview, i realy doub that hehe.
But negative or positive previews will not change the fact that prolly millions will play it, even tho it will be same old same old WoW/EQ clone in starwars settings, mass wants it so they get it nomatter how hard haters try convince others its a copy of copy of copy only worse:P
As expected, the game will be to 100% a generic theme park MMORPG with a star wars skin.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
1. Star Wars is World of Warcraft (being the most common thing to use at this time for comparison) - Take away Star Wars and you just have a World of Warcraft in space. There's nothing that really sets it apart from any other MMO out there. Space Combat is a set destination that you just move a mouse around to attack targets, you have no freedom of movement.
2. You have companions - They basically make it a single player Bioware MMO. Sure they can fill in spots in some groups, but otherwise you have someone to solo with. Limiting the need for social interaction (Sorry general chat is not social, it's for trolls)
3. Quests - Quest after quest after quest, with most being the same just with different mobs but same type (collection, kill this many and so on)
4. It's level based - so once you hit max level you are left to wait for more content or Raids (which is constant grinding in itself, that gets boring); and some people level faster then others. Don't tell me to level another character to wait... why should I? I should have enough to keep me entertained, which for some that have skills to level up, you at least have multiple things to do.
5. Level based means lack of friends who are casual. You're hardcore who likes to level and once you're to high you can't really play with your friend who maybe jumps twice a week; and hey your friend joined because they want to hang out with you (beyond actually going to their or your house). Which makes skill based level games better because even low level skills can still do something and have fun with their friends.
6 and so on, and so on... Good Voices for the game but you can't fast forward them (at the moment) but they don't really add much to the game (you don't need to read the text anymore just listen to it now)
Obsessed as in "I can't let a negative SWTOR comment pass by without throwing GW2 into the mess, just because I've got no better argument to make so I thought I'd stir the shit"?
You mean that kind of obsessed? Yeah, I'm pretty sick of that too.
EDIT: Snip'd some extraneous quotage.
Hmm that would made it better if it had a Vindictus style of playing. I'm just playing it in my head now with Vindictus and I like the thought of it, and wish they would of went for that style instead of the Wow based one.
Basically it comes down to the money and what form works right now; and sadly this is what works. No business really wants to chance some new area and not make a go of it; and a majority of us have become lazy and won't want to take a chance at change. We've been babied to much.
Great post. This is exactly how I see it, which is just incredibly sad. It seems they've done so little to innovate that aside from voice acting, there really isn't anything even the developers can brag about.
Take even Lightsabers for example. If I hit a guy in generic armor with a lightsaber, I expect that guy to end up in more pieces than he started out with. I get the sound of a lightsaber swinging, and it looks like a lightsaber, but it just bounces off the guy like a nerf sword. What!
Sarcasm is not a crime!
go read on some other threads that I posted on today.
I simple don't give a fuck anymore about any one reviewers opinion, the only ones that matters is mine.
Fuck the PC Gamer review too, his opinion isn't mine.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Hmmm, lets have a look.
1) Its a MMORPG the core mechanics are there its not a WOW copy its a mmorpg holdin true to the mmorpg elements just like WOW did. You dont reinvent the wheel everytime you build a new car you improve on whats established.
2) Companions are different, they are an addition to the classic mmorpg every class is now a pet class, and yes this does make soloing easier and perhaps more fun. BUT lets be honest you want to socialise be in a guild and hey talk to people the say and the ooc is not just for trolls. In modern games people group up for a purpose and then break up when the purpose is finished. This isnt a developers fault its ours we as players have become so objective orientated that anything not leaading to the objective is abanadoned as time wasting an unnecessary. You want to socilise then find like minded people and do so.
3) Its a quest driven themepark THATS WHAT IT IS. Complaining about it ia like buying a motorbike and complaining it isnt a jet ski.
4)Its a mechanic one of the clasic golden oldies which shows your character developing from pleb to interglatic hero. Guess what this isnt a good or bad point its just a style. Some games work on the sill grind sysem others on the leveling system. But this is just a mechanic take it or leave it.
5) Your hardcore and your friends are casual, why not make a casual character to play when they are about and your hardcore main for when your not with them.... Of course this would mean YOU would have to actually act like a friend and be social. Seriously the game is here to play situations like this are for you to deal with not for a forced mechanic to be implemented to do it for you.
6) You don't want the story, then why play th game ? Seriously a mmorpg which has as one of its foundations full voice acting and heavy story driven plot and you want to kip the plot and voice ???
Last pont you want lightsabres to be insta kill ?? I guess you want the same with the blasters after all no matter how much armour they had on a stormtrooper dropped with a blaster bolt to the chest. But guess what this isnt a fps its a mmorpg sometimes there need to be sacrifices to make it work.
Just my 2 cents
Gadareth
I responded to this post in reverse order, and you've made zero compelling arguments to show that this is anything but a WoW clone. In fact, almost every "point" you make is an excuse as to why they cloned WoW, not how it's different.
Using a car analogy is flawed, because cars perform a valuable job. MMO games are purely for entertainment, and the previous MMORPGs have become old and tired. It's either innovate or die; if you haven't seen as much by the successes and failures so far, you must have had your eyes glued shut.
Plus, every form of entertainment in a car gives the user absolute control. Movies and music allow for near-infinite choices, while themepark MMO games are locked down.
You say they break up when their purpose is finished, so why not make the "purpose" take longer to achieve, or create more incentive to group up? It is absolutely the developer's fault for not giving people a good reason to socialize.
No, complaining about it is like buying a motorbike and complaining about getting the old motorbike you just traded in.
Look up the Guild Wars 2 sidekick system, or any game without levels. The leveling system in MMO games today requires that the developers either split their time between a ton of levels to give them all content, or only focus on the max. If they only focus on the max, then all the other levels become "story time," which is only interesting the first time through.
If developers would remove levels, then those years spent creating the leveling content could be spent on a single "end game," providing an immense amount of stuff to do that doesn't immediately fall into obsolescence like the leveling content.
Gameplay > Story
Gameplay > Story
Gameplay > Story
No exceptions. This is an MMO game, not a single player RPG. At least that's what I've been lead to believe. :P
Yes, I want lightsabers to instantly kill things. I can accept the blaster bolt not killing people instantly because that isn't an iconic part of Star Wars. But if you're going to dumb down such a huge part of the intellectual property, then what's the point of putting it in? In pretty much every major Star Wars scene involving Jedi, someone ends up with something chopped off by a lightsaber. By putting lightsabers in the game in the state they're in, they've completely failed to capture the atmosphere and immersion that comes with the Star Wars franchise.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Bascially what your saying is you the focus and direction in which SWTOR is heading in is not the one for you. Yes it uses the classic MMORPG formula well guess what a lot of people LIKE this formula. Using it does not make it any less Star Wars. Just because WOW uses it is not a bad thing. As for the car comparision buying a Mercedes Benz does not mean you just bought yourself a Jaguar copy. Even if both cars have four wheels and go vroom.
The difference is in the emphasis, SWTOR is focused on story it uses the classic themepark style to deliver it. As for gameplay its there, its not Sandbox and never ever claimed it was. If you do not like the classic mmorpg style then to be honest don't play the game simple. Its not intended for you. If you want insta death and limbs removed then play a different game their are ones out there for you.
A lightsabre cutting you down in a single hit is a classic mechanic of star wars lore but so is a blaster bolt in the chest kills you regardles of your armour. Look at the films people did not shrug them off. But its a mmorpg and not a twitch game you want twitch games go play a fps version.
Level based gameplay works well in themepark settings and skill based games work best in sandboxes especially ones in which a heavy focus on PvP is expected. With a thempark game levels are a great way of showing your progression from noob to an elite. From a rookie to a veterern.
These games are not all about end game and never ever should be. The end game should in my opinion just be a holding pattern until more content is released. The idea of the game begins at end game is silly the game begins with your first step.
Socially you get out what you put in. If you want to socialise and group up then do so find like minded people form a party form a guild and have fun. The mechanics are there to support you and better yet if you cannot find that vital extra memeber you can use a companion to help out.
So far your arguments break down to this :-
a) I don't like classic MMORPG style of game play (as used by WOW and most other mmorpgs)
b) I want lightsabres to kill instantly to hell with game balance
c) I dont like themepark games
d) I need the game to force people to play with me.
If these points truly represent your opinions then I am sorry but SWToR may not be the game for you. As your dislike seems to be about the overall game desgin. Perhaps a FPS version will be released at a later date and that I suspect will be more up your ally. Woudl the game you want be a good game... YEs probably if done right and in fact SWG tried originally to do so BUT its not the only way.
SWG focused on freedom to do what you wanted your way this game has a different focus its focus is story and your decsisons do you do this or do you do that. Your choices in some cases have no major effect and in others change the entire focus of the encounter. So your decsions carry weight.
You need to remember a MMORPG needs to follow certain rules insta death is really not part of a mmorpg design and as such sacrifices need to be made from perceived reality and playability.
Just my 2 cents
Gadareth
"is that it’s one of the most boring titles we’ve ever had to endure. It’s plain and staid and deathly dull. "
Wow exactly what my kids told me after i asked them to research this game before i drop several hundred bones on it.
For me and probably others, the dissapointment is more along the lines that we wanted a different MMO for Star Wars. SWTOR and GW2 are going to be my last mmos to enjoy, I'm just getting to the point in life where other things are more important, but I would still like to go out with a bang with a great, innovative mmo to show for all the time I've spent playing them. Instead we get something that really offers the same and that is just depressing. I simply wanted a game that is backed by a great set of devs, which it is, and offer the next step in the mmo evolution... but they took the gravey train. That's why I am unhappy with SWTOR and why the negative reviews carry some weight, because we need to see both sides.
So my point is, not all of us spew unwarranted hate for SWTOR - we were just let down that we are being offered the same thing and that's not what we wanted for the next Star Wars mmo. Eight years is too long for me to wait for another studio to do a Star Wars game (SWG 2003). I'm sure it could be sooner, but nothing I would hold my breath for
I am mostly saying online rpg format instead of MMO format, not switch combat.
"...is that it’s one of the most boring titles we’ve ever had to endure. ""
Wow, even I wouldnt have gone that far.
Overall though the piece is harsh but fair, and pretty still spot on.
The guy is pretty much spot on about his experience. Hype > TOR.