I am a HUGE fan of both Guild Wars and Star Wars and I must say that this reviewer had his mind set on "talking down" on SW:TOR from the very first sentence. If you read both his impression articles on SW:TOR and GW2 you can see obvious points.
Case in point:
Guild Wars Quote: "Someone had kindly selected my character as a charr thief and with the battle only seconds from beginning..."
SW:TOR Quote: "Disappointingly, the character creator wasn’t available (though I suspect this was more to do with ensuring players didn’t waste valuable time) and so a predefined list of ready made characters was there for you to choose from."
No mention of GW2 character creator, but that someone was "kind" enough to select the character for him versus he was "disappointed" with the lack of character creation for SW:TOR.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a fan of one game versus another, but if you want to keep your integrity as a journalist at least stay unbiased in your writings.
IMO GW2 is going to be amazing but it is going to be one those games that no ones going to play beside hardcore peeps. Most casuals don't look at these previews, They see advertisement and they buy it. The name star wars alone will make this game a success among casuals. And if BW doesn't make the the same mistake as SOE then this game will have no trouble succeeding. And guess what Casuals make 95% of the MMO crowd, the people who log in everday after work to raid for 3 hours for gears. This board and internet lurkers make up about 1% of the MMO crowd. Why is WoW still holding 11 mil sub? If the genre is so boring. Theres plenty of games out there right now with "innovation." Go to your local gamestop and ask a random person about GW2, he will be G W 2 WHAT? and then ask him about TOR, he will be like YO I AM SO READY FOR THAT GAME!!!!! My cousin tried that. He works at Gamestop. He told me he asked around 500 people about GW 2 and only 10 or so people knew what that game was. While a good 70% knew what SWTOR was and looking forward to it. These guys will be happy with the game as they expect to play a Bioware and Star wars game which they will get.
Hmmm...maybe, but I doubt that. I think GW2 is going to be pretty successful.
He's another way to think about it. Before WoW, the "big dog" MMORPG was Everquest and it had around half a million subscribers, which was HUGE back in 2003. Your logic seems to dictate that WoW should have really not deviated that far from Everquest to be successful. It should have sutck with a tried and true formula.
But WoW DID deviate from the EQ formula, in fact it can be argued that they improved on the EQ formula. They made their game much more accessible, adding huge quest lines that would level a character from 1-60. And this, I believe, is in large part why it was so successful.
Then look at GW2. GW2 is trying to do to WoW, what WoW did to EQ. They basically examined everything about WoW and thought "how could it be better?" Then they came up with their own solutions to everything that they perceived to be a problem in WoW.
So anyway, we won't know if GW2 lives up to its promise until it's released; but if it does, then I think it will do VERY well. Maybe even becoming the market leader in time.
Now sure, some of the issues mentioned in the articles are real. Bioware 100% played it safe, they made NO risks and all went with the known and proven. But hell, I SAID SO FOR TWO+ YEARS. So, where is the novelty here? In the immortal words: TOLDJA.
Taking no risks and playing it safe doesn't equal not making a good game, nor does it equal it being exactly the same as something else.
If you were to have said 2+ years ago that BioWare and EA was going to play it safe, I don't think anyone would have ever argued with you.
And the reality is, it's not possible to take "no risks" when you undertake a big project like SWTOR. Even if they decided to make it a near carbon copy of WoW, it would be a big risk. Because you're essentially pitting your "WoW" against the real one that has had YEARS of content and fine tuning under its belt.
This is why I think most WoW clones do not see long term success. It's hard to compete with the master.
Anyone with two eyes (or rather two ears) can tell SWTOR is not a WoW clone.
If all it takes to be a clone of a game is share simular game play then every fucking FPS in the last 10 years are a bunch of freaking Halo/COD clones.
I wasn't saying SWTOR was a WoW clone...I never played it so I can't judge. I was just saying that IF a product is an absolute WoW clone, it's still a risk.
I am a HUGE fan of both Guild Wars and Star Wars and I must say that this reviewer had his mind set on "talking down" on SW:TOR from the very first sentence. If you read both his impression articles on SW:TOR and GW2 you can see obvious points.
Case in point:
Guild Wars Quote: "Someone had kindly selected my character as a charr thief and with the battle only seconds from beginning..."
SW:TOR Quote: "Disappointingly, the character creator wasn’t available (though I suspect this was more to do with ensuring players didn’t waste valuable time) and so a predefined list of ready made characters was there for you to choose from."
No mention of GW2 character creator, but that someone was "kind" enough to select the character for him versus he was "disappointed" with the lack of character creation for SW:TOR.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a fan of one game versus another, but if you want to keep your integrity as a journalist at least stay unbiased in your writings.
Theres a difference between CC not being available and someone picking your character for you when the CC is available.
Now sure, some of the issues mentioned in the articles are real. Bioware 100% played it safe, they made NO risks and all went with the known and proven. But hell, I SAID SO FOR TWO+ YEARS. So, where is the novelty here? In the immortal words: TOLDJA.
Taking no risks and playing it safe doesn't equal not making a good game, nor does it equal it being exactly the same as something else.
If you were to have said 2+ years ago that BioWare and EA was going to play it safe, I don't think anyone would have ever argued with you.
People said the same about Rift, look where the game is 6 month after.
SWTOR won't ride along well on it's IP alone if the fundamental game is worn out the day the title hits the shelves. No amount of voice overs will compensate fun lacking due to say slow combat. No amount of story will get them over blunt gameplay.
SWTORs combat isn't slow, and gameplay.. well I can't talk about gameplay right now. However, everyone is mistaking being safe, for being old or stale.
A safe bet for BioWare is, use story, use BioWare fundamentals, mix it with what works in traditional and casual play, then move it forward.
What does that mean?
That means, take quests and make them important, enjoyable, and do more than just accept it or decline it. Make mob grinding optional. Have a focus that doesn't lie on the fact that max level means you're "done" with progression. Have a gear system that is both interesting and forgiving to those that want to play their way. Make rewards important but not a necessity to enjoy content. Make lots and lots of content, interesting and different content per class, make it varied.
Its safe. Its not crazy like: Force 5 faction PvP over resources, that are required for your faction to excel at world and economy building, where all of the largest cities are built underground and where crafting is a sole profession and you can only fast travel by flying boats and where combat is action adventure-y like Devil May Cry.
If you have to invest your money in something, you want the best game YOU can make, where you'll see a return on your investment, guaranteed, and BioWare is a safe company to bet on. If we wanted more of a twitch based sense of combat and progression, well... we may have to wait for a Mass Effect MMO for that.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I have to admit I am growing concerned with how this game will end up. It's OK to copycat off of another company or a previous title of your own, but there's limitations on what MOST players are willing to deal with.
For example, Dark Souls plays a LOT like Demons Souls, yet myself and most Dark Souls players still LOVE it. The difference here is, no other company copied Demons Souls. The problem with the WoW-esque formula is, there is an astounding number of games that copied WoW, and failed miserably. Because of this, most players like myself are tired of the WoW formula, and want something different. We dont need something radically different, but there's gotta be enough features to make me feel like I am playing something I havent tried before.
I wont make any final decision until I can play a bit myself, and the actual release has happened, but I was truly hoping for more than what I am seeing so far.
No, not EVERYDAY. On Tuesdays its "argue about food day." Next week, we argue about which kind of vegetables would win in a fight between Carrots, Celery, Radishes, or Kale.
After reading the same person's GW2 impressions last week, I commented that it was great to hear what appeared to be an overwhelmingly positive impression from someone who didn't seem to be a fanboy who was already predisposed to reach such a conclusion. After reading his take on SW:ToR, the opposite seems true. Several of his complaints about SW seem to result from drawing direct comparisons to GW2, such as the inability to dodge, the inability to cast spells with a cast time on the run, or the use of the "outdated" Holy Trinity combat system. He remarks,
"The inability to dodge incoming attacks or attack swiftly just demonstrates how stale the genre has become as a result of copying the World of Warcraft blueprint. Encounters were dull and monotonous as I stood stationary watching my auto attack roll by (I use this term as a reference to the generic skill 1 you repeatedly use), knowing that to move was entirely pointless as it had no impact on your ability to avoid damage..."
"The first of my major concerns is the fact that although classes have a minor heal skill (Recharge & Reload in the bounty hunters case) you have to remain stationary to use them...To kill an enemy and watch my health recharge agonisingly slowly or to remain entirely stationary whilst my heal animation plays out was incredibly frustrating and entirely unnecessary..."
"Some might argue that is what the healer classes are for (to help you along quickly) true, but the ‘holy trinity’ and reliance on others as a heal crutch or damage sponge should have died a long time ago."
Now perhpas GW2 is just that good that it deservingly won this author over, and every other MMO experience now pales in comparison. Either way, this particular impression article is now undoubtedly distorted somewhat by a bias for a competing game. That's not to say every complaint isn't valid. You just have to ask yourself if what this author is calling totally unacceptable, such as the mechanics described above, are as unacceptable to you. If you've enjoyed such games for a long time, the answer would probably be that they're not so bad at all. You should also ask yourself, however, if the alternatives might be more attractive options.
Maybe the author never played any other MMO besides WoW? Because we all know, WoW was the only MMO made!
No, not EVERYDAY. On Tuesdays its "argue about food day." Next week, we argue about which kind of vegetables would win in a fight between Carrots, Celery, Radishes, or Kale.
Clearly carrots ... Everyone who would pick anything else would clearly be a window licking waterhead with taste buds on the back of his eyeballs.
Am i the only one who don't think it's necessary to hate one game to like another?
Yes?
Oh ok, just wanted to clear that up, rampant fanboyism, ho!
Trying very hard to like several, but so many people want to dictate what my entertainment dollar gets spent on.
I think I'll start taking score. Betcha the haters are more prolific.
On second tought, it's all of the same people grinding the same gears as last week; must be pretty close to a tie.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
No, not EVERYDAY. On Tuesdays its "argue about food day." Next week, we argue about which kind of vegetables would win in a fight between Carrots, Celery, Radishes, or Kale.
Clearly carrots ... Everyone who would pick anything else would clearly be a window licking waterhead with taste buds on the back of his eyeballs.
Whoa now, you're jumping the gun, and plus you're completely biased. You consort with carrots on a daily basis.
Besides, radishes stick together, everyone knows they have a pack mentality.
No, not EVERYDAY. On Tuesdays its "argue about food day." Next week, we argue about which kind of vegetables would win in a fight between Carrots, Celery, Radishes, or Kale.
Clearly carrots ... Everyone who would pick anything else would clearly be a window licking waterhead with taste buds on the back of his eyeballs.
Whoa now, you're jumping the gun, and plus you're completely biased. You consort with carrots on a daily basis.
Besides, radishes stick together, everyone knows they have a pack mentality.
Both of you are idiots, and you clearly haven't eaten kale. I'm in kale beta, and I'm still going to order it when it's released...that's all I'm saying.
No, not EVERYDAY. On Tuesdays its "argue about food day." Next week, we argue about which kind of vegetables would win in a fight between Carrots, Celery, Radishes, or Kale.
Clearly carrots ... Everyone who would pick anything else would clearly be a window licking waterhead with taste buds on the back of his eyeballs.
Whoa now, you're jumping the gun, and plus you're completely biased. You consort with carrots on a daily basis.
Besides, radishes stick together, everyone knows they have a pack mentality.
Both of you are idiots, and you clearly haven't eaten kale. I'm in kale beta, and I'm still going to order it when it's released...that's all I'm saying.
Well, I'd root for Celery, but it doesn't have the AAA cabbage patch features I want.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Comments
I am a HUGE fan of both Guild Wars and Star Wars and I must say that this reviewer had his mind set on "talking down" on SW:TOR from the very first sentence. If you read both his impression articles on SW:TOR and GW2 you can see obvious points.
Case in point:
Guild Wars Quote: "Someone had kindly selected my character as a charr thief and with the battle only seconds from beginning..."
SW:TOR Quote: "Disappointingly, the character creator wasn’t available (though I suspect this was more to do with ensuring players didn’t waste valuable time) and so a predefined list of ready made characters was there for you to choose from."
No mention of GW2 character creator, but that someone was "kind" enough to select the character for him versus he was "disappointed" with the lack of character creation for SW:TOR.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a fan of one game versus another, but if you want to keep your integrity as a journalist at least stay unbiased in your writings.
Hmmm...maybe, but I doubt that. I think GW2 is going to be pretty successful.
He's another way to think about it. Before WoW, the "big dog" MMORPG was Everquest and it had around half a million subscribers, which was HUGE back in 2003. Your logic seems to dictate that WoW should have really not deviated that far from Everquest to be successful. It should have sutck with a tried and true formula.
But WoW DID deviate from the EQ formula, in fact it can be argued that they improved on the EQ formula. They made their game much more accessible, adding huge quest lines that would level a character from 1-60. And this, I believe, is in large part why it was so successful.
Then look at GW2. GW2 is trying to do to WoW, what WoW did to EQ. They basically examined everything about WoW and thought "how could it be better?" Then they came up with their own solutions to everything that they perceived to be a problem in WoW.
So anyway, we won't know if GW2 lives up to its promise until it's released; but if it does, then I think it will do VERY well. Maybe even becoming the market leader in time.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I wasn't saying SWTOR was a WoW clone...I never played it so I can't judge. I was just saying that IF a product is an absolute WoW clone, it's still a risk.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Theres a difference between CC not being available and someone picking your character for you when the CC is available.
SWTORs combat isn't slow, and gameplay.. well I can't talk about gameplay right now. However, everyone is mistaking being safe, for being old or stale.
A safe bet for BioWare is, use story, use BioWare fundamentals, mix it with what works in traditional and casual play, then move it forward.
What does that mean?
That means, take quests and make them important, enjoyable, and do more than just accept it or decline it. Make mob grinding optional. Have a focus that doesn't lie on the fact that max level means you're "done" with progression. Have a gear system that is both interesting and forgiving to those that want to play their way. Make rewards important but not a necessity to enjoy content. Make lots and lots of content, interesting and different content per class, make it varied.
Its safe. Its not crazy like: Force 5 faction PvP over resources, that are required for your faction to excel at world and economy building, where all of the largest cities are built underground and where crafting is a sole profession and you can only fast travel by flying boats and where combat is action adventure-y like Devil May Cry.
If you have to invest your money in something, you want the best game YOU can make, where you'll see a return on your investment, guaranteed, and BioWare is a safe company to bet on. If we wanted more of a twitch based sense of combat and progression, well... we may have to wait for a Mass Effect MMO for that.
Do we really have to do this every single day?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I have to admit I am growing concerned with how this game will end up. It's OK to copycat off of another company or a previous title of your own, but there's limitations on what MOST players are willing to deal with.
For example, Dark Souls plays a LOT like Demons Souls, yet myself and most Dark Souls players still LOVE it. The difference here is, no other company copied Demons Souls. The problem with the WoW-esque formula is, there is an astounding number of games that copied WoW, and failed miserably. Because of this, most players like myself are tired of the WoW formula, and want something different. We dont need something radically different, but there's gotta be enough features to make me feel like I am playing something I havent tried before.
I wont make any final decision until I can play a bit myself, and the actual release has happened, but I was truly hoping for more than what I am seeing so far.
No, not EVERYDAY. On Tuesdays its "argue about food day." Next week, we argue about which kind of vegetables would win in a fight between Carrots, Celery, Radishes, or Kale.
Maybe the author never played any other MMO besides WoW? Because we all know, WoW was the only MMO made!
Until December 20th.
Then it will be "SEE I TOLD YOU SO" from people on both sides of the fence...
Haters who went into the game (still bought it) or will POUNCE on any negative review they can find despite having never played the game themselves.
Fanbois who POUNCE on every positive review or play the game for 20 minutes and come to the forums and praise it the second coming of Christ.
The rest of us will either be happily playing the game or happily not playing the game.
This website will still be a total and complete joke as are 99% of all video game journalists and their opinion pieces (reviews, previews etc.)
Oh do you know anything about TOR?
I mean.. do we have to bring up the list of features again and highlight the ones WoW doesn't have? The ones NO OTHER MMO has?
God I hate this site so much....
BUT I LOVE IT
Clearly carrots ... Everyone who would pick anything else would clearly be a window licking waterhead with taste buds on the back of his eyeballs.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Am i the only one who don't think it's necessary to hate one game to like another?
Yes?
Oh ok, just wanted to clear that up, rampant fanboyism, ho!
It is what humanity does for millenia. Repeating the same after a mental reset button is pressed.
Eherm, and the obvious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7NHCy13ZLk&feature=related
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Trying very hard to like several, but so many people want to dictate what my entertainment dollar gets spent on.
I think I'll start taking score. Betcha the haters are more prolific.
On second tought, it's all of the same people grinding the same gears as last week; must be pretty close to a tie.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Whoa now, you're jumping the gun, and plus you're completely biased. You consort with carrots on a daily basis.
Besides, radishes stick together, everyone knows they have a pack mentality.
Because that's the only reason people don't like the game.
Both of you are idiots, and you clearly haven't eaten kale. I'm in kale beta, and I'm still going to order it when it's released...that's all I'm saying.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well, I'd root for Celery, but it doesn't have the AAA cabbage patch features I want.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Spring leek is best leek.
Why is my choice not represented. I'M NOT A MINORITY, I AM NAHT!
I gotta remember to bump this thread a year from now when TOR goes F2P. Ahehehe.
I'm sorry, leeks are not permitted, they can get you permabanned Xo
Because of the Biodrones and the license, it'll probably be longer than that.
OMG Leek is such an Onion clone it isn't even funny!
My brand new bloggity blog.
So, basically because they made smart choices and a good game, they'll be successful. Just making sure we're on the same page here.