Ill be quite honest. When I read this: "Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game." I knew exactly how he felt.
I played the GW2 demo back in 2010 and then headed over to try out rift (I know, its not starwars, but it has the same "similarities" to WoW that SWTOR does.) In the span of 15 seconds I know that I would not be able to get a fair impression for that gameplay experience, and I quit right there. Later, I played in the rift beta and the only really bad thing about the game is that it gets boring fast (not much variation in quest design or rifts from 1-20 so I just stopped playing).
What I learned was that GW2 is just so much fun to play, at least it was for me and many others, like Lewis B, that other games felt intolerably boring or stagnent. this is one of the biggest reasons I never got around to playing the SWTOR demo for myself.
On a side note, the only MMO that I tried after GW2 and liked at PAX 2010 is TERA, but I know I won't be playing that game.
In conclusion, I suppose that what I am trying to say is that for those who want SWTOR to be good and want to play it (even with people saying its like WoW in space) it is likely not as bad as this article makes it out to be. This impression WAS skewed by the fact that he played GW2 right before he played SWTOR, and that alone, not some long held bias for GW2 and against SWTOR is responsible for the comparisons to GW2 in the article.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I don't know how anyone can take this review seriously. Pretty much everything he says in it is an underhanded jab at TOR, the author literally has nothing good to say about the game:
"I was pleasantly surprised with the games graphics. I don’t consider they have as much character as World of Warcrafts or are as beautiful as Guild Wars 2’s, and I’d even go as far as to stay it falls far short of WildStar, but, it does suit the clinical feel of Star Wars and more particularly Clone Wars. Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling."
Really? "The graphics pleasantly surprised me in that I can list ten games that I think have better graphics!"
"Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer..."
He sounds like one of the haters in this very forum shouting "WoW clone!" while frothing at the mouth.
He then goes on to point out bugs (bugs in a beta? Who'd have thought!)
Well, pretty much this entire article will satisfy the "WoW clone" crowd, because this guy is fixated on WoW and absolutely determined to compare the two games.
Does it really matter to those of you who pre-ordered the game what this guy says? Most people (on this forum anyways) have already made up their minds. You are either going to buy it, not buy it, or wait until a trial or beta invite to decide. Every time a review comes out we go through this.
You can pick this guys review apart and in the end it doesn't matter. You have decided. Trying to validate your decision from bashing or praising this guys review isn't going to change anyones mind. Unless you are trying to convince yourself.
He played the game and formed his opinion based on his experience with the game. Good or bad..thats it. Saying that his opinions are skewed or wrong because he only played for 20 mins or that he has some kind of agenda is foolish and a bit on the paranoid side.
I really don't think he wrote anything in that review that most people don't already know. It is just a matter of preference as to if you like what TOR has going on.
It IS very much like WoW. 100% the same? No. However...
Who makes a butt load of money off WoW? Blizzard.
Who wants a peice of it? EA.
How do you do that? Make WoW, reskinned and a bit different. Rift is doing ok by that formula. EA wants more, so you slap on Star Wars and milk the BioWare 'RPG' element and voila.
That isn't to say it's not a fun game, but anyone who is expecting a different game (at its core) then WoW is going to be up for disappointment.
Ill be quite honest. When I read this: "Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game." I knew exactly how he felt.
I played the GW2 demo back in 2010 and then headed over to try out rift (I know, its not starwars, but it has the same "similarities" to WoW that SWTOR does.) In the span of 15 seconds I know that I would not be able to get a fair impression for that gameplay experience, and I quit right there. Later, I played in the rift beta and the only really bad thing about the game is that it gets boring fast (not much variation in quest design or rifts from 1-20 so I just stopped playing).
What I learned was that GW2 is just so much fun to play, at least it was for me and many others, like Lewis B, that other games felt intolerably boring or stagnent. this is one of the biggest reasons I never got around to playing the SWTOR demo for myself.
On a side note, the only MMO that I tried after GW2 and liked at PAX 2010 is TERA, but I know I won't be playing that game.
In conclusion, I suppose that what I am trying to say is that for those who want SWTOR to be good and want to play it (even with people saying its like WoW in space) it is likely not as bad as this article makes it out to be. This impression WAS skewed by the fact that he played GW2 right before he played SWTOR, and that alone, not some long held bias for GW2 and against SWTOR is responsible for the comparisons to GW2 in the article.
Not being able to enjoy one kind of game because you played another previously is kind of stupid in all honesty. I've played games with much better combat then anything GW2 will have, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate other games for what type of combat they have. Just because I like the way Gears of War 3 plays, doesn't mean I can't swap over to Battlefield 3 and play it even though its cover isn't nearly as intuitive. Just because I've played DCUO doesn't mean I can't enjoy my time in City of Heroes.
When you get into comparing games, you lose sight of what a game is about. I can say I like the combat in Global Agenda or Phantasy Star Universe much more then I like the combat in fallen earth, but that doesn't mean that Fallen Earth isn't a good game or fun to play too.
Stop and think about it. If the combat of SWTOR was exactly like the combat of GW2 or TERA or DCUO, isn't that just another set of saturation? While I would love to see a Star Wars Battlefront MMORPG, I'm alright with this not being it. To me, what it is, is fantastic, and that won't change just because I have, can and will play another game.
Reviewers reference WoW because a majority of MMO players have played it and can easily use it as a reference. They also reference WoW because the gameplay in TOR is the same.
I agree with the reviewer, im not a fan of the graphic style of the game. I didnt like the graphics in DA either for the same reason. I just dont like the style.
I got a chance to mess around with beta and I dont have anything really negative to say about the game. There seems to be a good amount of polish and all that jazz. If you like WoW, you will probably like TOR, in the same way that if you like WoW you will probably like Rift, Aion, Runes of Magic, cause they all have similar gameplay. If your tired of that style of play i would advise anyone to check it out for themselves before purchasing.
I suppose you have to ask yourself, does the gameplay fit the setting. I haven't played SWTOR so I couldn't tell you but if it really does play like WoW then I do think that was the wrong approach to take.
i dont think anyone should be basing their opinion(s) on an article from someone who only played the game a lil bit in the middle of a convention, when it's sposed to be the kind of game you play for a long time. If i judged games by the first couple minutes (or even hours) i played, i would have never enjoyed everquest 1 and eve.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
You notice how almost every subpar review always includes its a WoWesqe type game. There must be something to that if they are all saying the same thing. I'm sure if TOR was something unique and excited all the reviews would mention that, even the good reviews but they don't.
Ill be quite honest. When I read this: "Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game." I knew exactly how he felt.
I played the GW2 demo back in 2010 and then headed over to try out rift (I know, its not starwars, but it has the same "similarities" to WoW that SWTOR does.) In the span of 15 seconds I know that I would not be able to get a fair impression for that gameplay experience, and I quit right there. Later, I played in the rift beta and the only really bad thing about the game is that it gets boring fast (not much variation in quest design or rifts from 1-20 so I just stopped playing).
What I learned was that GW2 is just so much fun to play, at least it was for me and many others, like Lewis B, that other games felt intolerably boring or stagnent. this is one of the biggest reasons I never got around to playing the SWTOR demo for myself.
On a side note, the only MMO that I tried after GW2 and liked at PAX 2010 is TERA, but I know I won't be playing that game.
In conclusion, I suppose that what I am trying to say is that for those who want SWTOR to be good and want to play it (even with people saying its like WoW in space) it is likely not as bad as this article makes it out to be. This impression WAS skewed by the fact that he played GW2 right before he played SWTOR, and that alone, not some long held bias for GW2 and against SWTOR is responsible for the comparisons to GW2 in the article.
Not being able to enjoy one kind of game because you played another previously is kind of stupid in all honesty. I've played games with much better combat then anything GW2 will have, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate other games for what type of combat they have. Just because I like the way Gears of War 3 plays, doesn't mean I can't swap over to Battlefield 3 and play it even though its cover isn't nearly as intuitive. Just because I've played DCUO doesn't mean I can't enjoy my time in City of Heroes.
When you get into comparing games, you lose sight of what a game is about. I can say I like the combat in Global Agenda or Phantasy Star Universe much more then I like the combat in fallen earth, but that doesn't mean that Fallen Earth isn't a good game or fun to play too.
Stop and think about it. If the combat of SWTOR was exactly like the combat of GW2 or TERA or DCUO, isn't that just another set of saturation? While I would love to see a Star Wars Battlefront MMORPG, I'm alright with this not being it. To me, what it is, is fantastic, and that won't change just because I have, can and will play another game.
It sounds stupid, but it doesn't make it any less true. GW2's fun wasn't purely because of combat though, I'm more talking about the general vibe or feel that you get from a game. Yes, you are right when you say that if SWTOR copied another game it would lead to the same issue of saturation, but why can't it deviate more from the WoW model (I call it like I see it) that they appearently have now?
also, a Starwars Battlefront Online would be pretty awesome.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
You notice how almost every subpar review always includes its a WoWesqe type game. There must be something to that if they are all saying the same thing. I'm sure if TOR was something unique and excited all the reviews would mention that, even the good reviews but they don't.
Its relative to the users experiences prior and how they play the game. We've seen recently that you can play GW2 just like WoW if you wanted to. Small player impressions are hard to gauge exactly how far the game goes into traditional MMO territory.
Can you easily see similarities, sure. You'd be stupid if you couldn't see some similarities in just about every MMO. Does that mean they are exactly the same though? I'll answer it. No they are not exactly the same.
You notice how almost every subpar review always includes its a WoWesqe type game. There must be something to that if they are all saying the same thing. I'm sure if TOR was something unique and excited all the reviews would mention that, even the good reviews but they don't.
Go and read every WoW review, 90% of them said the exact same thing, citing the only real improvement was accepility and polish.
You don't see games like COD dieing out because so called "revolutionary" games like BF3 are coming out.
I played both Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR and got the excate opposite impression.
Well I nave logged several hours beta and have had a lot of fun. I'm tired of reviewers stating that without twitch combat you can't get that Star Wars feeling. Way off IMO. I'm not going to break the NDA, but just say that those comparing the game to WOW are way off. Infect those comparing this to any Curresnt MMO are way off. The game reminds me of three other games that I won't mention, none of them are MMO's another poster on this thread hit the nail on the head without realizing it and I will leave it at that. A good number of people will absolutely love this game, and good number will hate what it is, or represents I guess. Sad. BW has done an amazing job IMO
Same here,
I find it bordering on hilarious at this point, SO many people are trying to bash the HELL out of SWTOR and make really bold claims that are negative, with little to no real time with the game. I have played the game through several builds, I have friends who have done the same, none of us have anything truly negative to say about the game. In fact it's all mostly positive, there were bugs and performance issues before the latest build but this is all public knowledge now so I'm not breaking NDA by stating so. I was not somebody who was looking forward to this game by any means, for quite some time. It wasn't until about the last year that I really took an interest in it and I'm glad I did. The game is fantastic, fun, it's got it's innovations and BioWare never claimed that it would be the most innovative game ever in regard to mechanics. I don't really know WHAT people are hoping to get out of this game, OR Guild Wars 2. I have played both games, GW2 on the show floor and SWTOR in beta and the show floor. GW2 is NOT great which is another thing that cracks me up about this article and the people trying to basically snap the hype up from SWTOR and place it onto the next offering for the genre. If you're disappointed in SWTOR, you WILL be disappointed in GW2, no question about that one at all. If you find SWTOR's innovations to be minimalistic and next to nothing than GW2 will make you cry. Between the two from personal experience, SWTOR wins the cake easily. I'm being completely honest here.
The funny thing about the GW2 reviews I've read, as they are all playing on higher level characters in advanced gaming zones. The majority of the SWToR reviews are from what is basically a tutorial zone. There was some hutball and flashpoint gameplay videos but I don't recall an actual written review of the players experiences in them. You can't compare higher level game play with starter quests in any game.
The review author is obviously a GW2 fanboy. Nothing wrong with that. But if you write a review about a game you should try to be somehow objective. Unfortunately he isn't. SWTOR never had a chance to get a fair review from him cause he only has GW2 in his mind and is completely sold on that game.
So I could write a complete review about GW2 and all the features I don't like. But why should I ? Noone would care and why should anyone. GW2 and SWTOR are different games designed for different playstyles. Play the one you like and don't give in to the urge to bash the other one.
I hope both games are just halve as good as the current hype about them forecasts.
Thanks for posting this, it further verifies something that some liar on these forums keeps saying; he keeps claiming that SWTOR had a ton of PCs playing SWTOR at euro gamer.
The first was that the booth was surprisingly small, with Alienware laptops setup in two circles just in front of the over 18’s area. Queues were predictably long and so the demo time was quite limited (around fifteen minutes).
They obviously do not want people playing extended demos because they want to keep demos restricted to a tightly controlled area and not let players find the faults of the game.
Ill be quite honest. When I read this: "Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game." I knew exactly how he felt.
I played the GW2 demo back in 2010 and then headed over to try out rift (I know, its not starwars, but it has the same "similarities" to WoW that SWTOR does.) In the span of 15 seconds I know that I would not be able to get a fair impression for that gameplay experience, and I quit right there. Later, I played in the rift beta and the only really bad thing about the game is that it gets boring fast (not much variation in quest design or rifts from 1-20 so I just stopped playing).
What I learned was that GW2 is just so much fun to play, at least it was for me and many others, like Lewis B, that other games felt intolerably boring or stagnent. this is one of the biggest reasons I never got around to playing the SWTOR demo for myself.
On a side note, the only MMO that I tried after GW2 and liked at PAX 2010 is TERA, but I know I won't be playing that game.
In conclusion, I suppose that what I am trying to say is that for those who want SWTOR to be good and want to play it (even with people saying its like WoW in space) it is likely not as bad as this article makes it out to be. This impression WAS skewed by the fact that he played GW2 right before he played SWTOR, and that alone, not some long held bias for GW2 and against SWTOR is responsible for the comparisons to GW2 in the article.
Not being able to enjoy one kind of game because you played another previously is kind of stupid in all honesty. I've played games with much better combat then anything GW2 will have, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate other games for what type of combat they have. Just because I like the way Gears of War 3 plays, doesn't mean I can't swap over to Battlefield 3 and play it even though its cover isn't nearly as intuitive. Just because I've played DCUO doesn't mean I can't enjoy my time in City of Heroes.
When you get into comparing games, you lose sight of what a game is about. I can say I like the combat in Global Agenda or Phantasy Star Universe much more then I like the combat in fallen earth, but that doesn't mean that Fallen Earth isn't a good game or fun to play too.
Stop and think about it. If the combat of SWTOR was exactly like the combat of GW2 or TERA or DCUO, isn't that just another set of saturation? While I would love to see a Star Wars Battlefront MMORPG, I'm alright with this not being it. To me, what it is, is fantastic, and that won't change just because I have, can and will play another game.
It sounds stupid, but it doesn't make it any less true. GW2's fun wasn't purely because of combat though, I'm more talking about the general vibe or feel that you get from a game. Yes, you are right when you say that if SWTOR copied another game it would lead to the same issue of saturation, but why can't it deviate more from the WoW model (I call it like I see it) that they appearently have now?
also, a Starwars Battlefront Online would be pretty awesome.
Heres the deal, without dipping into my knowledge of the game in its current state or breaking the NDA.
SWTOR is a safe bet. When you create a game of the magnitude of SWTOR, you don't bet on something that isn't at least in some form tried, and tested.... and listen, SWTOR has been tried, its been tested, its been tested again, and again, for years. YEARS. They didn't go into it planning to reinvent an entire MMO architecture or create something that they could see only a niche getting into.
If we stop to look at what we have in SWTOR, we have a broad view of a lot of the most sought after features in MMOs for the majority of players, the core, and it has been built upon and changed -- moved forward, but not changed drastically so its indistinguishable.
They built on the core, traditional gameplay, added and changed, and took a piece of the prior genre and crafted something new that IS unique. They didn't take it "back to formula" but they made it better.
There are a lot of games coming out that will be starkly different then what we see in the traditional MMO scene. Okay, GW2, to a degree has a lot of what we haven't seen yet, but we also have Firefall, TSW, sure TERA is in there... and behold another Phantasy Star title in the works.
Whatever you played before only matters if you're burnt out, or if you can't see differences in anything, or you're a little whiny girl. (yeah, I went there)
Now I think this is broad enough without getting into any specifics, but rest assured I will have plenty of specifics when the NDA is gone, with plenty of negatives to try and offset all those positives so people aren't "blindsided".
Thanks for posting this, it further verifies something that some liar on these forums keeps saying; he keeps claiming that SWTOR had a ton of PCs playing SWTOR at euro gamer.
The first was that the booth was surprisingly small, with Alienware laptops setup in two circles just in front of the over 18’s area. Queues were predictably long and so the demo time was quite limited (around fifteen minutes).
They obviously do not want people playing extended demos because they want to keep demos restricted to a tightly controlled area and not let players find the faults of the game.
It's really obvious Bioware is trying to keep this thing underwraps as long as possible, and it's not because they're worried about spoliers. lol.
If they were happy with the game and wanted free publicity all they would have to do is drop the NDA and let people sing TOR's praises. Except they're not happy with the game and it isn't ready to be launched this year (even though they are pushing it out the door anyway). That's why we're only 8 weeks or so away from release and they're still desperately clinging to their NDA.
EVERY SINGLE REVIEWS of SW:TOR won't be great. All the positive or negative review aren't good reviews.
Right now the possibility is most likely that someone have played SW:TOR at the showcase and played the beta, that's it. You can't base a review on that.
Hell, you can't base a reviews after playing 2-3 days a game just after he came out. IT WILL NOT BE ACCURATE. It take weeks if not at least a month to really have a good reviews of the game.
Also, positive of negative, everyone can have their own opinions. Not everyone will love/play SW:TOR. Other will like it more than the other. It's something you need to be aware of.
Thanks for posting this, it further verifies something that some liar on these forums keeps saying; he keeps claiming that SWTOR had a ton of PCs playing SWTOR at euro gamer.
The first was that the booth was surprisingly small, with Alienware laptops setup in two circles just in front of the over 18’s area. Queues were predictably long and so the demo time was quite limited (around fifteen minutes).
They obviously do not want people playing extended demos because they want to keep demos restricted to a tightly controlled area and not let players find the faults of the game.
It's really obvious Bioware is trying to keep this thing underwraps as long as possible, and it's not because they're worried about spoliers. lol.
If they were happy with the game and wanted free publicity all they would have to do is drop the NDA and let people sing TOR's praises. Except they're not happy with the game and it isn't ready to be launched this year (even though they are pushing it out the door anyway). That's why we're only 8 weeks or so away from release and they're still desperately clinging to their NDA.
You have no idea what you're talking about. 'nuff said.
I really enjoyed one of the comments posted on that article:
You know an irony? Single-player narrative games are struggling to offer more dynamic events and fewer structured flashpoints, while MMOs, in some ways, are attempting to use flashpoints to help guide narrative arcs outside of emergent dynamics. How weird.
I do find this really interesting! The MMO genre definitely does seem to be taking a step backwards still. I think it is because WoW took a step backwards, going for polish instead of unique gameplay. And everyone else is now copying that (although they should not be), probably due to pressure from executives with $$ symbols in their eyes.
Thanks for posting this, it further verifies something that some liar on these forums keeps saying; he keeps claiming that SWTOR had a ton of PCs playing SWTOR at euro gamer.
The first was that the booth was surprisingly small, with Alienware laptops setup in two circles just in front of the over 18’s area. Queues were predictably long and so the demo time was quite limited (around fifteen minutes).
They obviously do not want people playing extended demos because they want to keep demos restricted to a tightly controlled area and not let players find the faults of the game.
It's really obvious Bioware is trying to keep this thing underwraps as long as possible, and it's not because they're worried about spoliers. lol.
If they were happy with the game and wanted free publicity all they would have to do is drop the NDA and let people sing TOR's praises. Except they're not happy with the game and it isn't ready to be launched this year (even though they are pushing it out the door anyway). That's why we're only 8 weeks or so away from release and they're still desperately clinging to their NDA.
You have no idea what you're talking about. 'nuff said.
Hi MaskedWeasel, were you the person who was saying there were a ton of computers at euro gamer? I think so right?
I think I remember because everytime I put up evidence to support something I am saying or use some sort of logical reasoning you inevitably respond telling me you are in the beta but can't prove it due to NDA and I am wrong and you are smarter than me. Lol.
I really enjoyed one of the comments posted on that article:
You know an irony? Single-player narrative games are struggling to offer more dynamic events and fewer structured flashpoints, while MMOs, in some ways, are attempting to use flashpoints to help guide narrative arcs outside of emergent dynamics. How weird.
I do find this really interesting! The MMO genre definitely does seem to be taking a step backwards still. I think it is because WoW took a step backwards, going for polish instead of unique gameplay. And everyone else is now copying that (although they should not be), probably due to pressure from executives with $$ symbols in their eyes.
Trust me when I say that GW2 Dynamic Events are nothing special after you play them for hours on end you'll start treating them more like quest.
I don't know how anyone can take this review seriously. Pretty much everything he says in it is an underhanded jab at TOR, the author literally has nothing good to say about the game:
"I was pleasantly surprised with the games graphics. I don’t consider they have as much character as World of Warcrafts or are as beautiful as Guild Wars 2’s, and I’d even go as far as to stay it falls far short of WildStar, but, it does suit the clinical feel of Star Wars and more particularly Clone Wars. Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling."
Really? "The graphics pleasantly surprised me in that I can list ten games that I think have better graphics!"
"Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer..."
He sounds like one of the haters in this very forum shouting "WoW clone!" while frothing at the mouth.
He then goes on to point out bugs (bugs in a beta? Who'd have thought!)
Well, pretty much this entire article will satisfy the "WoW clone" crowd, because this guy is fixated on WoW and absolutely determined to compare the two games.
Only a truly biased article would have failed to mentioned bugs found in a demo. Are you seriously going to hold his feet to the fire for that too? As for comparing this game to WoW, you have Bioware to thank for that with their "touchstone" comment a while back. That swung the door wide open for this type of comparison, groundless or not. People may have noted some similarities without it, but Bioware gave them an open invitation to look for them.
Thanks for posting this, it further verifies something that some liar on these forums keeps saying; he keeps claiming that SWTOR had a ton of PCs playing SWTOR at euro gamer.
The first was that the booth was surprisingly small, with Alienware laptops setup in two circles just in front of the over 18’s area. Queues were predictably long and so the demo time was quite limited (around fifteen minutes).
They obviously do not want people playing extended demos because they want to keep demos restricted to a tightly controlled area and not let players find the faults of the game.
It's really obvious Bioware is trying to keep this thing underwraps as long as possible, and it's not because they're worried about spoliers. lol.
If they were happy with the game and wanted free publicity all they would have to do is drop the NDA and let people sing TOR's praises. Except they're not happy with the game and it isn't ready to be launched this year (even though they are pushing it out the door anyway). That's why we're only 8 weeks or so away from release and they're still desperately clinging to their NDA.
You have no idea what you're talking about. 'nuff said.
Hi MaskedWeasel, were you the person who was saying there were a ton of computers at euro gamer? I think so right?
I think I remember because everytime I put up evidence to support something I am saying or use some sort of logical reasoning you inevitably respond telling me you are in the beta but can't prove it due to NDA and I am wrong and you are smarter than me. Lol.
Yeah because when I don't care for a game the first thing I do is go to its forum and make shit up.
"he comes to the conclusion this is a game for people who still enjoy and want more of the WoW-esque formula."
Which to me would be just like saying BF3 is a game for people who like the battlefield-esque formula.
In other words it's not a bad thing. If you're not looking for that I don't blame ya, if you are more power to you.
As to the battlefield comparison, some people like or even prefer COD games over BF games or visa versa. There's no right or wrong when it comes to what you prefer in gaming, regardless of what some on this forum will tell you..
Personally I never liked WOW all that much, it had it's charm early on but that quickly grew thin after killing my hundreth boar before level 10 (exaggeration, well.. maybe not). The game just never clicked with me. As well as the way in which the community approached the game and I didn't sync. If WOW had had a decent narrative and something more than numbers to play for, I may have stuck around far longer, it didn't.
AOC did on the other hand, I spent a great chunk of time in the post tortage game just soaking in the lore and world I was playing in. There are not many MMO's I"ve played that had me playing like that.
I expect TOR to do that, which makes the answer to the question of how long I would play, a not so obvious one. Which wouldn't be the case if this game were exactly like WOW.
Agreed, there is still a huge audience(I think) for the wow-esque type MMO. I personally want to try it out because I generally(with the exception of DA2) like Bioware's stories and storytelling. Although Im still in the fence because I am a bit tired of the same MMO formula, I couldn't get past it in Aion or in Rift
I couldn't either, basically because that is all that was there. All I can do is cite my experiences with AOC. Granted I eventually grew bored of AOC, that was more or less because what I liked about it really wasn't the focus of the overall game. PVP was okay but it wasn't all that great as far as lasting appeal went IMO.
I think the NDA is doing TOR more harm than good right now. If they'd at least partially lift it so we can talk about finer points of game-play, similarities and differences, yet not discuss story content they'd be a lot better off IMO.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Ill be quite honest. When I read this: "Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game." I knew exactly how he felt.
I played the GW2 demo back in 2010 and then headed over to try out rift (I know, its not starwars, but it has the same "similarities" to WoW that SWTOR does.) In the span of 15 seconds I know that I would not be able to get a fair impression for that gameplay experience, and I quit right there. Later, I played in the rift beta and the only really bad thing about the game is that it gets boring fast (not much variation in quest design or rifts from 1-20 so I just stopped playing).
What I learned was that GW2 is just so much fun to play, at least it was for me and many others, like Lewis B, that other games felt intolerably boring or stagnent. this is one of the biggest reasons I never got around to playing the SWTOR demo for myself.
On a side note, the only MMO that I tried after GW2 and liked at PAX 2010 is TERA, but I know I won't be playing that game.
In conclusion, I suppose that what I am trying to say is that for those who want SWTOR to be good and want to play it (even with people saying its like WoW in space) it is likely not as bad as this article makes it out to be. This impression WAS skewed by the fact that he played GW2 right before he played SWTOR, and that alone, not some long held bias for GW2 and against SWTOR is responsible for the comparisons to GW2 in the article.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I don't know how anyone can take this review seriously. Pretty much everything he says in it is an underhanded jab at TOR, the author literally has nothing good to say about the game:
"I was pleasantly surprised with the games graphics. I don’t consider they have as much character as World of Warcrafts or are as beautiful as Guild Wars 2’s, and I’d even go as far as to stay it falls far short of WildStar, but, it does suit the clinical feel of Star Wars and more particularly Clone Wars. Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling."
Really? "The graphics pleasantly surprised me in that I can list ten games that I think have better graphics!"
"Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer..."
He sounds like one of the haters in this very forum shouting "WoW clone!" while frothing at the mouth.
He then goes on to point out bugs (bugs in a beta? Who'd have thought!)
Well, pretty much this entire article will satisfy the "WoW clone" crowd, because this guy is fixated on WoW and absolutely determined to compare the two games.
Does it really matter to those of you who pre-ordered the game what this guy says? Most people (on this forum anyways) have already made up their minds. You are either going to buy it, not buy it, or wait until a trial or beta invite to decide. Every time a review comes out we go through this.
You can pick this guys review apart and in the end it doesn't matter. You have decided. Trying to validate your decision from bashing or praising this guys review isn't going to change anyones mind. Unless you are trying to convince yourself.
He played the game and formed his opinion based on his experience with the game. Good or bad..thats it. Saying that his opinions are skewed or wrong because he only played for 20 mins or that he has some kind of agenda is foolish and a bit on the paranoid side.
I really don't think he wrote anything in that review that most people don't already know. It is just a matter of preference as to if you like what TOR has going on.
It IS very much like WoW. 100% the same? No. However...
Who makes a butt load of money off WoW? Blizzard.
Who wants a peice of it? EA.
How do you do that? Make WoW, reskinned and a bit different. Rift is doing ok by that formula. EA wants more, so you slap on Star Wars and milk the BioWare 'RPG' element and voila.
That isn't to say it's not a fun game, but anyone who is expecting a different game (at its core) then WoW is going to be up for disappointment.
Not being able to enjoy one kind of game because you played another previously is kind of stupid in all honesty. I've played games with much better combat then anything GW2 will have, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate other games for what type of combat they have. Just because I like the way Gears of War 3 plays, doesn't mean I can't swap over to Battlefield 3 and play it even though its cover isn't nearly as intuitive. Just because I've played DCUO doesn't mean I can't enjoy my time in City of Heroes.
When you get into comparing games, you lose sight of what a game is about. I can say I like the combat in Global Agenda or Phantasy Star Universe much more then I like the combat in fallen earth, but that doesn't mean that Fallen Earth isn't a good game or fun to play too.
Stop and think about it. If the combat of SWTOR was exactly like the combat of GW2 or TERA or DCUO, isn't that just another set of saturation? While I would love to see a Star Wars Battlefront MMORPG, I'm alright with this not being it. To me, what it is, is fantastic, and that won't change just because I have, can and will play another game.
Reviewers reference WoW because a majority of MMO players have played it and can easily use it as a reference. They also reference WoW because the gameplay in TOR is the same.
I agree with the reviewer, im not a fan of the graphic style of the game. I didnt like the graphics in DA either for the same reason. I just dont like the style.
I got a chance to mess around with beta and I dont have anything really negative to say about the game. There seems to be a good amount of polish and all that jazz. If you like WoW, you will probably like TOR, in the same way that if you like WoW you will probably like Rift, Aion, Runes of Magic, cause they all have similar gameplay. If your tired of that style of play i would advise anyone to check it out for themselves before purchasing.
I suppose you have to ask yourself, does the gameplay fit the setting. I haven't played SWTOR so I couldn't tell you but if it really does play like WoW then I do think that was the wrong approach to take.
i dont think anyone should be basing their opinion(s) on an article from someone who only played the game a lil bit in the middle of a convention, when it's sposed to be the kind of game you play for a long time. If i judged games by the first couple minutes (or even hours) i played, i would have never enjoyed everquest 1 and eve.
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You notice how almost every subpar review always includes its a WoWesqe type game. There must be something to that if they are all saying the same thing. I'm sure if TOR was something unique and excited all the reviews would mention that, even the good reviews but they don't.
It sounds stupid, but it doesn't make it any less true. GW2's fun wasn't purely because of combat though, I'm more talking about the general vibe or feel that you get from a game. Yes, you are right when you say that if SWTOR copied another game it would lead to the same issue of saturation, but why can't it deviate more from the WoW model (I call it like I see it) that they appearently have now?
also, a Starwars Battlefront Online would be pretty awesome.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Its relative to the users experiences prior and how they play the game. We've seen recently that you can play GW2 just like WoW if you wanted to. Small player impressions are hard to gauge exactly how far the game goes into traditional MMO territory.
Can you easily see similarities, sure. You'd be stupid if you couldn't see some similarities in just about every MMO. Does that mean they are exactly the same though? I'll answer it. No they are not exactly the same.
Go and read every WoW review, 90% of them said the exact same thing, citing the only real improvement was accepility and polish.
You don't see games like COD dieing out because so called "revolutionary" games like BF3 are coming out.
I played both Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR and got the excate opposite impression.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Same here,
I find it bordering on hilarious at this point, SO many people are trying to bash the HELL out of SWTOR and make really bold claims that are negative, with little to no real time with the game. I have played the game through several builds, I have friends who have done the same, none of us have anything truly negative to say about the game. In fact it's all mostly positive, there were bugs and performance issues before the latest build but this is all public knowledge now so I'm not breaking NDA by stating so. I was not somebody who was looking forward to this game by any means, for quite some time. It wasn't until about the last year that I really took an interest in it and I'm glad I did. The game is fantastic, fun, it's got it's innovations and BioWare never claimed that it would be the most innovative game ever in regard to mechanics. I don't really know WHAT people are hoping to get out of this game, OR Guild Wars 2. I have played both games, GW2 on the show floor and SWTOR in beta and the show floor. GW2 is NOT great which is another thing that cracks me up about this article and the people trying to basically snap the hype up from SWTOR and place it onto the next offering for the genre. If you're disappointed in SWTOR, you WILL be disappointed in GW2, no question about that one at all. If you find SWTOR's innovations to be minimalistic and next to nothing than GW2 will make you cry. Between the two from personal experience, SWTOR wins the cake easily. I'm being completely honest here.
The funny thing about the GW2 reviews I've read, as they are all playing on higher level characters in advanced gaming zones. The majority of the SWToR reviews are from what is basically a tutorial zone. There was some hutball and flashpoint gameplay videos but I don't recall an actual written review of the players experiences in them. You can't compare higher level game play with starter quests in any game.The review author is obviously a GW2 fanboy. Nothing wrong with that. But if you write a review about a game you should try to be somehow objective. Unfortunately he isn't. SWTOR never had a chance to get a fair review from him cause he only has GW2 in his mind and is completely sold on that game.
So I could write a complete review about GW2 and all the features I don't like. But why should I ? Noone would care and why should anyone. GW2 and SWTOR are different games designed for different playstyles. Play the one you like and don't give in to the urge to bash the other one.
I hope both games are just halve as good as the current hype about them forecasts.
Thanks for posting this, it further verifies something that some liar on these forums keeps saying; he keeps claiming that SWTOR had a ton of PCs playing SWTOR at euro gamer.
The first was that the booth was surprisingly small, with Alienware laptops setup in two circles just in front of the over 18’s area. Queues were predictably long and so the demo time was quite limited (around fifteen minutes).
They obviously do not want people playing extended demos because they want to keep demos restricted to a tightly controlled area and not let players find the faults of the game.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Heres the deal, without dipping into my knowledge of the game in its current state or breaking the NDA.
SWTOR is a safe bet. When you create a game of the magnitude of SWTOR, you don't bet on something that isn't at least in some form tried, and tested.... and listen, SWTOR has been tried, its been tested, its been tested again, and again, for years. YEARS. They didn't go into it planning to reinvent an entire MMO architecture or create something that they could see only a niche getting into.
If we stop to look at what we have in SWTOR, we have a broad view of a lot of the most sought after features in MMOs for the majority of players, the core, and it has been built upon and changed -- moved forward, but not changed drastically so its indistinguishable.
They built on the core, traditional gameplay, added and changed, and took a piece of the prior genre and crafted something new that IS unique. They didn't take it "back to formula" but they made it better.
There are a lot of games coming out that will be starkly different then what we see in the traditional MMO scene. Okay, GW2, to a degree has a lot of what we haven't seen yet, but we also have Firefall, TSW, sure TERA is in there... and behold another Phantasy Star title in the works.
Whatever you played before only matters if you're burnt out, or if you can't see differences in anything, or you're a little whiny girl. (yeah, I went there)
Now I think this is broad enough without getting into any specifics, but rest assured I will have plenty of specifics when the NDA is gone, with plenty of negatives to try and offset all those positives so people aren't "blindsided".
It's really obvious Bioware is trying to keep this thing underwraps as long as possible, and it's not because they're worried about spoliers. lol.
If they were happy with the game and wanted free publicity all they would have to do is drop the NDA and let people sing TOR's praises. Except they're not happy with the game and it isn't ready to be launched this year (even though they are pushing it out the door anyway). That's why we're only 8 weeks or so away from release and they're still desperately clinging to their NDA.
EVERY SINGLE REVIEWS of SW:TOR won't be great. All the positive or negative review aren't good reviews.
Right now the possibility is most likely that someone have played SW:TOR at the showcase and played the beta, that's it. You can't base a review on that.
Hell, you can't base a reviews after playing 2-3 days a game just after he came out. IT WILL NOT BE ACCURATE. It take weeks if not at least a month to really have a good reviews of the game.
Also, positive of negative, everyone can have their own opinions. Not everyone will love/play SW:TOR. Other will like it more than the other. It's something you need to be aware of.
You have no idea what you're talking about. 'nuff said.
I really enjoyed one of the comments posted on that article:
You know an irony? Single-player narrative games are struggling to offer more dynamic events and fewer structured flashpoints, while MMOs, in some ways, are attempting to use flashpoints to help guide narrative arcs outside of emergent dynamics. How weird.
I do find this really interesting! The MMO genre definitely does seem to be taking a step backwards still. I think it is because WoW took a step backwards, going for polish instead of unique gameplay. And everyone else is now copying that (although they should not be), probably due to pressure from executives with $$ symbols in their eyes.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Hi MaskedWeasel, were you the person who was saying there were a ton of computers at euro gamer? I think so right?
I think I remember because everytime I put up evidence to support something I am saying or use some sort of logical reasoning you inevitably respond telling me you are in the beta but can't prove it due to NDA and I am wrong and you are smarter than me. Lol.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Trust me when I say that GW2 Dynamic Events are nothing special after you play them for hours on end you'll start treating them more like quest.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Only a truly biased article would have failed to mentioned bugs found in a demo. Are you seriously going to hold his feet to the fire for that too? As for comparing this game to WoW, you have Bioware to thank for that with their "touchstone" comment a while back. That swung the door wide open for this type of comparison, groundless or not. People may have noted some similarities without it, but Bioware gave them an open invitation to look for them.
Yeah because when I don't care for a game the first thing I do is go to its forum and make shit up.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I couldn't either, basically because that is all that was there. All I can do is cite my experiences with AOC. Granted I eventually grew bored of AOC, that was more or less because what I liked about it really wasn't the focus of the overall game. PVP was okay but it wasn't all that great as far as lasting appeal went IMO.
I think the NDA is doing TOR more harm than good right now. If they'd at least partially lift it so we can talk about finer points of game-play, similarities and differences, yet not discuss story content they'd be a lot better off IMO.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson