The MMORPG version of Apple isn't Blizzard. That's the Microsoft role. Apple is more analogous to SOE: got in earlier, more innovative, more willing to milk customers for all they're worth, and becomes less relevant as a market becomes more mature.
This genre has incredible potential, as gaming, as virtuality experiencing medium, as a storytelling medium, etc. But it is stagnant (this is an understatement). It needs somebody who does things differently. Who does things the right way. It needs a genious.
I thought WoW was pretty much the Steve Jobs of MMO's? Lot of flash but no substance. Making a killing on the ideas of others and trying to pass it off as some revolutionary innovation by them :P
One thing that you most definitely can't link apple with is lots of flash.
Lol! Nice one TheRegister would be proud of.
In all fairness I think we need to separate the man from the corp. If by needing a Steve jobs the OP means we need a visionary that will brook no dilution of his idea of what an mmo should be then I can see how that could be a good thing. What most of us are pretty clear on, however, is that we don't want an Apple of MMOs and all the baggage of (un)intended consequences that came with it's extreme protectionist ethos. We're not saying that others don't want to do those things or that others aren't doing them now but Apple does it best...sort of like Blizzard.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I love how some of you are painting Steve Jobs as some evil person who stole everyones ideas and sues anyone who dares to make anything similar.
When actually, all phone companies were suing each other to try and get a leg up on one another.it wasn't just Apple and
It's 'evil tyrant Emporer' Steve Jobs.
The difference being that none of the others were so vocal about claiming that they owned any and all rights to all capacitive touch screen technology.
That would be like Apple starting a themepark MMO that ended up with 15 million subs, then taking out a government patent on the little ! icon just because their version of it made the most money.
Yeah and thats business,if youre not going to take the bull by the horns in that situation,then you'll be losing out to someone else.
does that make him a bad person for it? not really.
Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
I love how some of you are painting Steve Jobs as some evil person who stole everyones ideas and sues anyone who dares to make anything similar.
When actually, all phone companies were suing each other to try and get a leg up on one another.it wasn't just Apple and
It's 'evil tyrant Emporer' Steve Jobs.
The difference being that none of the others were so vocal about claiming that they owned any and all rights to all capacitive touch screen technology.
That would be like Apple starting a themepark MMO that ended up with 15 million subs, then taking out a government patent on the little ! icon just because their version of it made the most money.
Yeah and thats business,if youre not going to take the bull by the horns in that situation,then you'll be losing out to someone else.
does that make him a bad person for it? not really.
Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
Thats th way the business world works..
Was he supposed to let himself be held back by his own personal ethics while his opponents climb over his business?
Simplifying designs to their core and cutting the bullshit which interfere's with a product's purpose...isn't Blizzard already the Steve Jobs of MMORPGs?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Simplifying designs to their core and cutting the bullshit which interfere's with a product's purpose...isn't Blizzard already the Steve Jobs of MMORPGs?
I have owned 3 ipods and they all broke within a few months of purchace. Sleek and elegance on the design but total trash on the manufacturing side of things.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Originally posted by twodayslate Originally posted by tank017
Originally posted by twodayslate
Originally posted by tank017 I love how some of you are painting Steve Jobs as some evil person who stole everyones ideas and sues anyone who dares to make anything similar.
When actually, all phone companies were suing each other to try and get a leg up on one another.it wasn't just Apple and It's 'evil tyrant Emporer' Steve Jobs.
The difference being that none of the others were so vocal about claiming that they owned any and all rights to all capacitive touch screen technology. That would be like Apple starting a themepark MMO that ended up with 15 million subs, then taking out a government patent on the little ! icon just because their version of it made the most money. Yeah and thats business,if youre not going to take the bull by the horns in that situation,then you'll be losing out to someone else. does that make him a bad person for it? not really. Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
Exactly.
Exactly.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
You cannot command creativity into being. Creativity comes to you.
Originally posted by Gaoxin
No, thank you. I don't want to pay twice as necessary for my games.
You wouldnt.
Apple PCs arent any more expensive than high quality IBM PCs.
Originally posted by darwa
With all due respect to the dead, Jobs was hardly the innovator that the (Apple) media made him out to be.
Now thats a funny way to interpret reality.
Then why did Apple prosper with Jobs as CEO, while before it was basically going where other companies like Commodore had already went ?
Originally posted by generals3
So MMo's need someone who manages to convince people paying twice the price for less quality is a good deal?
Again, this is an idiotic argument that, sorry, has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
If I buy a new IBM PC, its no cheaper than a corresponding Apple PC. Why ? Because I insist on high quality components.
Originally posted by laserit
What the genre truly needs is someone with deep pocket's who is a true fan. Someone who can make a game first and formost for the love of gaming and not over how much profit can be made.
I dont believe it could happen in a corporate enviroment. You need some one who can do it and do it because they want to... Profit be damned.
Not going to happen. People either have a lot of money, OR they dont care about making a lot of money. People who have a lot of money and dont care to make more are very rare.
Originally posted by GameDevJake
MMOs need their own Tesla, more like. Someone who will develop and experiment and produce content for the sake of the industry and its users instead of money.
Err ... what ? How would that work in the first place ? Game development requires a ***load of artists. No genius can ever possibly change that. Therefore game development will always be very expensive.
Tesla found physical laws. But a MMO genius WILL need an expensive framework to do anything.
Originally posted by Drevar
I would submit that we already had such a person : Raph Koster*.
Yep, thats one of the creative people in this business.
Originally posted by malefacus
You intrigue me, who is this Raph Koster?
And here comes somebody who doesnt know about Google and Wikipedia.
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
I thought WoW was pretty much the Steve Jobs of MMO's?
That sentence makes no sense whatsoever.
And if I would have to draw parallels, I would call Blizzard the Microsoft of MMOs. Doesnt really work as an analogy, though. Much too many differences. For example, right now they are apparently on the downhill.
Originally posted by Angier2758
Originally posted by Axehilt
Simplifying designs to their core and cutting the bullshit which interfere's with a product's purpose...isn't Blizzard already the Steve Jobs of MMORPGs?
It is not Jobs but Wozniak we need. We already have a Jobs, Morhaime on Blizzard.
Jobs was brilliant at marketting, but it was not him doing the real stuff. What we need is a genius that could
Jobs friend Wozniak built a home computer in his garage, Jobs invested money in it and start selling it.
Markus Persson who made Minecraft is one of the guys that have the right mindset to take the MMOs into the future, someone who thinks outside the box and don't look on other peoples ideas but instead makes his own.
The only guy like that the genre have right now is Strain from Undead labs.
Once a guy like that design a great and different game someone like Jobs can sell it.
I love how some of you are painting Steve Jobs as some evil person who stole everyones ideas and sues anyone who dares to make anything similar.
When actually, all phone companies were suing each other to try and get a leg up on one another.it wasn't just Apple and
It's 'evil tyrant Emporer' Steve Jobs.
The difference being that none of the others were so vocal about claiming that they owned any and all rights to all capacitive touch screen technology.
That would be like Apple starting a themepark MMO that ended up with 15 million subs, then taking out a government patent on the little ! icon just because their version of it made the most money.
Yeah and thats business,if youre not going to take the bull by the horns in that situation,then you'll be losing out to someone else.
does that make him a bad person for it? not really.
Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
Ethics in business world? in field of cut throat compettion where is place for ethics? it might be nice to hear or when you want to be philosphical but i really doubt anyone cares when it comes to being practical.
The OP is talking about someone with the spirit of someone like Steve Jobs, not an Apple MMO. Steve worked hard with endless passion, he had amazing ideas that he was able to realize. I don't care if you like Apple product or not, that's off-topic. This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer.
{mod edit}
On topic: I agree. I liked Richard Garriot and his recent visions/ideas. To bad it didn't work out this time around. Maybe he'll be back in due time, he doesn't seem like the kind of person that just gives up and moves on.
MMOs do have their Steve Jobs, it is whoever came up with WoW.
Cause like Apple products it not only make the market explode, it also defined the market through becoming the number one product and inspiring a million clones. Just like the iPod...
What the MMO market needs is for someone to realise they don't have to make a game appeal to the mass market for it to be successful. That is all, aim for a niche and produce a solid, polished product with a sensible business model and it will make money. It doesn't need to try for millions of subscribers!
I love how some of you are painting Steve Jobs as some evil person who stole everyones ideas and sues anyone who dares to make anything similar.
When actually, all phone companies were suing each other to try and get a leg up on one another.it wasn't just Apple and
It's 'evil tyrant Emporer' Steve Jobs.
The difference being that none of the others were so vocal about claiming that they owned any and all rights to all capacitive touch screen technology.
That would be like Apple starting a themepark MMO that ended up with 15 million subs, then taking out a government patent on the little ! icon just because their version of it made the most money.
Yeah and thats business,if youre not going to take the bull by the horns in that situation,then you'll be losing out to someone else.
does that make him a bad person for it? not really.
Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
Ethics in business world? in field of cut throat compettion where is place for ethics? it might be nice to hear or when you want to be philosphical but i really doubt anyone cares when it comes to being practical.
I agree. MMO genre has become a stagnant and pungent pond. The only major change over last, let's say 5 years, has been even worse games with a result of pay to win model to generate some revenue. With the astonishing development of technology it's almost amazing how bland and shallow MMOs have become. On the other hand there are plenty of good single player RPGs, shooters and strategy games. In my opinion this genre needs most definitely someone with a visionary mind like Steve Jobs.
I agree.
The MMO Industry needs someone(s) to pave the way out of the stagnant swamp of MMO's and into new territory.Maybe once Guild Wars 2 comes out( hopefully with great success) it'll inspire companies to take different paths than what we've seen for the past decade.
To much focus today on money, and we see that in the mmo market, everything mimics WoW, not all of that is bad but it makes for boring games since if you played WoW long enough to get tired of it going to another games feels pretty much the same.
The OP is talking about someone with the spirit of someone like Steve Jobs, not an Apple MMO. Steve worked hard with endless passion, he had amazing ideas that he was able to realize. I don't care if you like Apple product or not, that's off-topic. This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer.
{mod edit}
*cough*
Jobs fought cancer in the last years of his life, with 50+.
He founded Apple in his youth. He returned to Apple long before his cancer was diagnosed. Apple did most of the things which lead to their success before Jobs was diagnosed, IIRC in 2005. Jobs (naturally) STOPPED working when he had trouble with his cancer.
So how excactly did you come up with the line "This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer."
Also, as a rule, I dont admire profit. Invention, creativity, yes. But profit ? Nope.
The OP is talking about someone with the spirit of someone like Steve Jobs, not an Apple MMO. Steve worked hard with endless passion, he had amazing ideas that he was able to realize. I don't care if you like Apple product or not, that's off-topic. This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer.
{mod edit}
*cough*
Jobs fought cancer in the last years of his life, with 50+.
He founded Apple in his youth. He returned to Apple long before his cancer was diagnosed. Apple did most of the things which lead to their success before Jobs was diagnosed, IIRC in 2005. Jobs (naturally) STOPPED working when he had trouble with his cancer.
So how excactly did you come up with the line "This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer."
Also, as a rule, I dont admire profit. Invention, creativity, yes. But profit ? Nope.
We get it. You loved Steve Jobs. But some of these things are objective reality that you seem to be ignoring.
Yes, Apple products cost more for the same hardware, sometimes as much as double for the same PC specs. This is common knowledge.
Also, Apple doesn't innovate. They didn't have the first smartphone, or tablet, or MP3 player. They had the best marketing campaigns that led to the most sales. You might even like their products better, but they are not innovative.
That is not to say they did not have some important innovations during the very early days of computing, but they drove Jobs out for a reason. He came back and help the company do well, but it isn't because of good ideas. They took the ideas of others, got better marketing for them, and got patents on things no one had even thought to get a patent on things no one else would have.
They basically got a court to let them patent the very idea of tablets in Europe because they thought the Samsung looked too much like the iPad. Ridiculous.
So no, Apple hasn't come up with much new in the past decade or so. They take other's ideas, regurgitate them in a shiner, simpler form (neither of which I like, by the by), charge much more for them, and keep a very tightly controlled hand over absolutely everything to do with their products. And I hate proprietary cables and nonsense like that.
Come to think of it, Activision/Blizzard really is a lot like the Apple of the MMO world.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
No, thank you. I don't want to pay twice as necessary for my games.
You wouldnt.
Apple PCs arent any more expensive than high quality IBM PCs.
Originally posted by generals3
So MMo's need someone who manages to convince people paying twice the price for less quality is a good deal?
Again, this is an idiotic argument that, sorry, has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
If I buy a new IBM PC, its no cheaper than a corresponding Apple PC. Why ? Because I insist on high quality components.
You can spend as much on a PC as on a Mac, but you'll either get much better hardware than Apple sells or else you'll have found a really inefficient way to waste money. Or both.
Apple sells mid-range hardware with a high end price tag and a slick form factor. But it's still only mid-range hardware.
Comments
The MMORPG version of Apple isn't Blizzard. That's the Microsoft role. Apple is more analogous to SOE: got in earlier, more innovative, more willing to milk customers for all they're worth, and becomes less relevant as a market becomes more mature.
Lol! Nice one TheRegister would be proud of.
In all fairness I think we need to separate the man from the corp. If by needing a Steve jobs the OP means we need a visionary that will brook no dilution of his idea of what an mmo should be then I can see how that could be a good thing. What most of us are pretty clear on, however, is that we don't want an Apple of MMOs and all the baggage of (un)intended consequences that came with it's extreme protectionist ethos. We're not saying that others don't want to do those things or that others aren't doing them now but Apple does it best...sort of like Blizzard.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
+1
Thats th way the business world works..
Was he supposed to let himself be held back by his own personal ethics while his opponents climb over his business?
I dont think so.
Simplifying designs to their core and cutting the bullshit which interfere's with a product's purpose...isn't Blizzard already the Steve Jobs of MMORPGs?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Cause WoW doesn't have a lot of bullshit.
I have owned 3 ipods and they all broke within a few months of purchace. Sleek and elegance on the design but total trash on the manufacturing side of things.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
That would be like Apple starting a themepark MMO that ended up with 15 million subs, then taking out a government patent on the little ! icon just because their version of it made the most money.
Yeah and thats business,if youre not going to take the bull by the horns in that situation,then you'll be losing out to someone else.
does that make him a bad person for it? not really.
Yes, yes it does. "That's business" does not excuse throwing away one's ethics.
Exactly.
Exactly.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
OP mean something like this?
http://www.portalarium.com/center-port/185.html
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
You cannot command creativity into being. Creativity comes to you.
You wouldnt.
Apple PCs arent any more expensive than high quality IBM PCs.
Now thats a funny way to interpret reality.
Then why did Apple prosper with Jobs as CEO, while before it was basically going where other companies like Commodore had already went ?
Again, this is an idiotic argument that, sorry, has absolutely nothing to do with reality.
If I buy a new IBM PC, its no cheaper than a corresponding Apple PC. Why ? Because I insist on high quality components.
Not going to happen. People either have a lot of money, OR they dont care about making a lot of money. People who have a lot of money and dont care to make more are very rare.
Err ... what ? How would that work in the first place ? Game development requires a ***load of artists. No genius can ever possibly change that. Therefore game development will always be very expensive.
Tesla found physical laws. But a MMO genius WILL need an expensive framework to do anything.
Yep, thats one of the creative people in this business.
And here comes somebody who doesnt know about Google and Wikipedia.
That sentence makes no sense whatsoever.
And if I would have to draw parallels, I would call Blizzard the Microsoft of MMOs. Doesnt really work as an analogy, though. Much too many differences. For example, right now they are apparently on the downhill.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL
It is not Jobs but Wozniak we need. We already have a Jobs, Morhaime on Blizzard.
Jobs was brilliant at marketting, but it was not him doing the real stuff. What we need is a genius that could
Jobs friend Wozniak built a home computer in his garage, Jobs invested money in it and start selling it.
Markus Persson who made Minecraft is one of the guys that have the right mindset to take the MMOs into the future, someone who thinks outside the box and don't look on other peoples ideas but instead makes his own.
The only guy like that the genre have right now is Strain from Undead labs.
Once a guy like that design a great and different game someone like Jobs can sell it.
Ethics in business world? in field of cut throat compettion where is place for ethics? it might be nice to hear or when you want to be philosphical but i really doubt anyone cares when it comes to being practical.
{mod edit}
The OP is talking about someone with the spirit of someone like Steve Jobs, not an Apple MMO. Steve worked hard with endless passion, he had amazing ideas that he was able to realize. I don't care if you like Apple product or not, that's off-topic. This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer.
{mod edit}
On topic: I agree. I liked Richard Garriot and his recent visions/ideas. To bad it didn't work out this time around. Maybe he'll be back in due time, he doesn't seem like the kind of person that just gives up and moves on.
MMOs do have their Steve Jobs, it is whoever came up with WoW.
Cause like Apple products it not only make the market explode, it also defined the market through becoming the number one product and inspiring a million clones. Just like the iPod...
What the MMO market needs is for someone to realise they don't have to make a game appeal to the mass market for it to be successful. That is all, aim for a niche and produce a solid, polished product with a sensible business model and it will make money. It doesn't need to try for millions of subscribers!
Ghostcrawler? He's a-climbing. Otherwise, Metzen (he's Thrall too, or at least his voice).
Agreed.
i completely disagree... we dont need more games to be dumbed down and overpriced....
I agree.
The MMO Industry needs someone(s) to pave the way out of the stagnant swamp of MMO's and into new territory.Maybe once Guild Wars 2 comes out( hopefully with great success) it'll inspire companies to take different paths than what we've seen for the past decade.
To much focus today on money, and we see that in the mmo market, everything mimics WoW, not all of that is bad but it makes for boring games since if you played WoW long enough to get tired of it going to another games feels pretty much the same.
*cough*
Jobs fought cancer in the last years of his life, with 50+.
He founded Apple in his youth. He returned to Apple long before his cancer was diagnosed. Apple did most of the things which lead to their success before Jobs was diagnosed, IIRC in 2005. Jobs (naturally) STOPPED working when he had trouble with his cancer.
So how excactly did you come up with the line "This is about his personality and his ability to create some of the most profitable companies in the world - while fighting cancer."
Also, as a rule, I dont admire profit. Invention, creativity, yes. But profit ? Nope.
We get it. You loved Steve Jobs. But some of these things are objective reality that you seem to be ignoring.
Yes, Apple products cost more for the same hardware, sometimes as much as double for the same PC specs. This is common knowledge.
Also, Apple doesn't innovate. They didn't have the first smartphone, or tablet, or MP3 player. They had the best marketing campaigns that led to the most sales. You might even like their products better, but they are not innovative.
That is not to say they did not have some important innovations during the very early days of computing, but they drove Jobs out for a reason. He came back and help the company do well, but it isn't because of good ideas. They took the ideas of others, got better marketing for them, and got patents on things no one had even thought to get a patent on things no one else would have.
They basically got a court to let them patent the very idea of tablets in Europe because they thought the Samsung looked too much like the iPad. Ridiculous.
So no, Apple hasn't come up with much new in the past decade or so. They take other's ideas, regurgitate them in a shiner, simpler form (neither of which I like, by the by), charge much more for them, and keep a very tightly controlled hand over absolutely everything to do with their products. And I hate proprietary cables and nonsense like that.
Come to think of it, Activision/Blizzard really is a lot like the Apple of the MMO world.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
You can spend as much on a PC as on a Mac, but you'll either get much better hardware than Apple sells or else you'll have found a really inefficient way to waste money. Or both.
Apple sells mid-range hardware with a high end price tag and a slick form factor. But it's still only mid-range hardware.
An MMO you can play on an Iphone?
Or with a mouse with one button?
No thanks!
Bill Gates all the way!!! Bill Gates is Hard Core Sandbox, Steve Jobs is Posh Theme Park!
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)