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Trion's new Ashes CE; testing ground for Trion's new coming cash shop?
Two threads on the Rift forums show the most recent kerfuffle:
Collector's Edition Rendered Moot
Two threads which talk about Trion's recent "deal".. a Canadian CE edition. Apparently that edition gives players who bought the Canadian edition recently several things which even the Founder's CE Edition at launch didn't give, including a spider mount called a spindrel and a personal banker. The mount was/is prominently advertised in the Ashes of History trailer, which many customers claimed led them to believe the mount was a questible, drop or reputation type item. They found out it was not and only able to be gotten from a purchase.
So, outrage poured out from the original people since beta (and a few others), so much so that Trion is scrambling to close threads popping up about it and trying to consolidate them all in one place.
According to the 'spindrel' thread above Trion's solution was to offer the new Canadian version of CE in it's "upgrade" shop to everyone who purchased a CE prior to this but did not include the things like personal banker, the mount and tabards for an additional $10.00. If someone has the regular edition they can upgrade for $14.99 to receive it all as well.
The people who object claim that this is Trion starting down a "slippery slope" whereby selling more things after in this fashion for straight cash, they are leading up to a cash shop. Others say this is merely Trion testing the waters early to see what the playerbase is willing to pay for as an additional fee if they don't include it in the game and for how much ($10, $15, $20, etc). They feel it's just the beginning of an introduction of "other items" such as Pay to Win later.
My personal feeling after reading both threads and seeing how Trion has handled this leads me to believe that there is some truth to parts of this and this is not just an 'oversight'. Trion already has a cash shop planned for it's company which will operate on a principle of "Trion Credits", but right now that shop is limited to one game, EoN.
If Rift were to be contemplating a shift to FTP for late Summer or Fall of next year (due to increased competition) this would be the perfect barometer to "ease" players into getting used to it. By offering the mount and banker cheaply ($10) instead of just "comping" players who originally bought the other CEs, Trion is gauging how much of a response it gets negative/positive. Right now it appears to be evenly split.
While I personally have no problem with fluff items in any game (WoW, Rift, LOTRO, GW1, etc) being sold and think Trion is well within their rights to run a shop as it's their game, many players say this slippery slope is dangerous.
After reading the links above, do you think Trion is prepping ground for future pay packages of fluff and laying the groundwork for future cash shop plans in Rift, or do you think this was just a stupid business decision made in "error"?
Comments
Abigale did say they are looking at ways of making the spindle available in-game...all the people actually paying for the mount have jumped the gun and are only letting themselves in to get pissed once its available in game.
nevermind she said ways to make them available to existin subbers, guess paying was that way.
Personally I don't think $10 is bad because of the sheer amount of people clamouring and rushing in line to buy the spider. Many of the posts say they couldn't even get through to the upgrade part to place their orders, so looks like Trion is doing gangbusters business for the mount upgrades. I think they probably should have charged $20.. I'm sure they would have gotten it.
A few wouldn't pay.. look at this retard's statment over there. I don't get his attitude:
So here you have a guy who claims he's completely happy with Rift and playing the game. Now they sell a $10 mount, and he quits a game he supposedly loves. I don't really have the words to describe how incredibly moronic that sounds.
I mean, how is the game now "less fun" because they are charging for a mount he doesn't even have to buy if he doesn't want it? I don't understand his anger at another player paying additional money to support a game that even he likes to play.
"TO MICHAEL!"
lulz, this guy's name and his post says it all:
he's so upset he's running through the whole thread insulting people who disagree... over a $10 mount. Not sure I've seen anything more pathethic. He even links those youtube vids as insulting replies to fellow players.. wtf?
Actually it's pretty funny to read, but I'm not sure why those moderators over there in Rift don't crack down like here. That guy is clearly out of line.
Even a third party site like MMORPG seems to have better mods than that place. I think all those guys are on coffee breaks most of the day. It was one of the reasons I don't miss Rift, but hope they get their act together.
The weird thing is he says "he's a defender of Rift". If Trion has defenders like this, who needs enemies?
"TO MICHAEL!"
for my own personal opinion, i immediately leave any mmo that opens up a cash shop. i think cash shops are wrong and shows the company cares more about getting as much money from their customers as possible than making the game better and more enriching.
i also keep f2p games far far away, those are a plague. the cash shop goes hand and hand with f2p and both are nothing but poison for this genre that is already rotting
just my op. though. everyone has their own views
I understand why poeple are pissed. Some just dont get that this is how it always starts. I like Rift also but once the "fluff" starts its time for me to go. I will not finance cash shop development with my sub fee.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
I think most Western games have handled it considerably well though up to this point. Some didn't, some did but most players are kind of ambivalent against it.. I think like most of the Rift players in those threads are the prevaling attitude. Even if you look at Trion's 'community representatives' in those threads, they don't have a problem with this at all.
That should be an encouraging sign to Trion because when the reps are onboard, you can do whatever you want. It's when the reps come out and say "I don't think this is good for the game" when you start to have problems because those people carry weight and are usually "yes men" anyways.
Given that, it's one of the reasons I think Trion will institute that cash shop. They just have to gauge that most players won't quit over it, which I personally don't think they will because every game will probably go to some form of this. Some may not like it in reality, but they may like Rift more so they really don't care if the game they like adds a cash shop or not.
It's more about when games they don't really care for do it because it just gives them one more reason to leave it, imo.
"TO MICHAEL!"
isnt this like buying diferent versions of the game?i mean most games as it seems bring out localized versions
i mean look at this
http://community.batmanarkhamcity.com/forums/showthread.php/2741-Where-to-pre-order-Announced-list!-**VERSION-3-INC-STEELBOOKS**
i see it like this and not as a shop.but it might turn out as a shop
untill they start selling items with real money like other companies no one knows.
also its item shop like only for existing players...new players can just decide which version of the CE they want...its like TOR has 3(i think ?) versions of the game only that you can actually ugrade each one to the next.
i agree with you. some companies put in just standard fluff shops but others put in pay 2 win shops *cough* funcom *cough* lol.
for me, i enjoy paying one set monthly fee. that way i can have unlimited access to the game and all the items inside of it. when i have to spend my real life money on a mount or a silly hat i like then i get mad. ive been playing mmos since they first were invented and youre right that every game is eventually going to go this route. which is depressing and sickening.
i used to be all excited for every single mmo launch now its few and far between, which is kinda off topic lol
Actually, that is fluff. It's the classic definition of what fluff is without actually having a cash shop to purchase it from.
The mount is only available two ways: Canadian CE or as an "upgrade" to an existing account. If someone has a regular account already, it's not necessarily a cash shop type purchase because they are going from REGULAR to CE. That part I get and think isn't that bad. It's the people with PRIOR CE's that it's a cash shop for.
If you bought a CE at launch, this was not available. You got a different mount altogether. So you got one mount with that CE as an 'upgrade' from the regular. Now flash forward seven months later.
You still possess the CE right? With the old mount. Now a "new" CE comes out and if you want to get that you have to 'upgrade' to CE.. but you already have a CE, lol. So it's not really an upgrade because all you're getting is a new mount and a banker. I was talking to my bud about this very thing. You are actually paying $10 for the mount and banker period.
Again I don't have a problem with that or even a cash shop that sells fluff, but this is exactly what that is no matter how you slice it. You only get it by paying money and it doesn't "upgrade" your account; just gives you another mount.
So if you would quit over an actual cash shop, you might as well quit now because it's the same thing. (not advising you, just showing the point)
My personal feeling is if someone likes the game, keep paying. Cash shop/no cash shop.. if it's fun, it's fun.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Once again, Trion is demonstrating very poor judgment and pissing off another chunk of their remaining customer base.
I lost faith in them roughly two months after release, but only remained because 1) I had made friends in the game who depended on me as a core raider, and 2) I had a 6 month sub already paid for. Once the guild started dropping off and showed no interest in continuing into Hammerknell, it was time to call it.
It has been said that it will be made available ingame as well. Will have to see. I personally do not like cash shops. I had played LOTRO since launch, with a break to try other things now and then, and quit as soon as they announced the F2P model. For me its the principle of it. Of course this was after Turbine saying a month or so earlier that they had no plans to do so. I agree that cash shops are the future, even in P2P games and it doesnt bode well for me as im just to stubborn to live with it.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
No one from Trion said "it will be made available in-game; that is, if you are suggesting quests, drops or reputation grinds. This is what I've seen from Trion officially:
Trion already made them "available" to existing customers this week; by charging them $10.00 to buy the mount, banker and tabard.
There hasn't been anything else from Trion regarding that. I'm sure that's their last official word on the matter. It's not available so if you want it, there you go.
Even Gamebreaker TV noted it was the first official microtransaction in Rift:
GamebreakerTv: The Sanctum 36: EEEEEEk Spider! Skip to 22:35 for the start of the mount discussion, then skip to 26:00 when the moment they all realize live while taping that they got confirmation and it hits them all like a Mack truck.
The looks on their faces and their reactions were pretty priceless.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Not only does your post have the "it doesn't affect me immediately, so it doesn't count" stance, but you have M. Con-Vick as your avatar, so there is no persuasive element to your post. Juist sayin'!
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
Here's a crazy idea! The items are optional and don't affect gameplay, get over it. Buy it if you want them, don't if you don't.
Someone buying a WoW sparkle pony or someone buying a Rift spider doesn't do anything for me as a PvE mainly player other than give MORE money to the game I actually like and I'm for that. I don't have any 'ethical problems' with it at all, lol.
As far as my avatar, pfft. I like Vick's style of play.. he's fearless on the field. I don't care if he barbeques dogs and eats them like they do in China. That doesn't have anything to do with him being a football player, which is what I watch him for.
Really? Is that the best dig you could come up with in a simple discussion?
"TO MICHAEL!"
BBQ? I wish. Torture X hundreds was what actually happened. He is inhuman. You call him fearless, yet he whines every game about taking hits that most players shrug off. Nothing left to say............................
Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.
"I like Vick's style of play.. he's fearless on the field"
That's what I said, notice the stuff you left out. I'll repeat again since you want to derail; I don't care about Vick and dogs off-field.
I don't care about Peyton Manning sleeping around behind his wife's back off-field. I don't care about Albert Pujols farting in the hottub off-field. I don't care about Wayne Gretzy gambling off-ice. None of that stuff matters off the field; it's what they are paid to do on the field.
I'll leave their off sport lives to people like you who care about that, fair enough?
For the record, he takes more hits than probably any QB in the game. The Eagles O-line is garbage. You may not like his personal play but his heart as a player is unquestioned among just about every NFL player.
oh, just so you know.. I see you have a TOR sig. You do know we they will have microtransactions as well, right? Since I already told you I don't worry about that it won't bother me when I play it.
But I think you may need to start thinking of another game given your stance.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yep. So was the sparkle pony and now Blizz has "progressed" to selling CS items that can "earn" players ingame gold through AH selling of said items. No matter how many times devs run the same game some people still dont see it coming,
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Eh, I actually hope RIFT will be going F2P, it will give RIFT a stronger position when upcoming MMO Juggernauts come out,
But I'm not sure if Trion can keep the current content update rate when the game goes F2P thought. then again it's already been proven that going F2P(or freemium) is actually more profitable than subscription fee if your subbers base is not in millions(thought we'll see when WoW goes F2P)
I think the special prices they've been running nonstop getting ever lower with each new deal is a tipoff that they are just trying to maintain a status quo instead of expanding. Charging $10 for mounts in this fashion instead of retroactively giving them to Founders shows that for Trion right now, that extra 100K is more important than keeping old subs happy. I don't fault them for that because if you don't charge for these mounts, you're basically giving money away when every other company won't.
I actually think they screwed up with the free unlimited server transfers. You realize how much money they potentially threw down the drain in an effort to appear "different" than Blizzard? I bet Blizzard and the other companies laughed when they did that because they knew Rift would have to make that back with twice the subs that aren't there right now.
The bright side to Trion doing it this way is that they just got done getting people excited over promises coming so it seems a lot prepaid for a year and six months in advance. People might be upset over $10, but they are hostages because they've already paid lol. They can't ask for a refund which Trion knows. A lifetime sub would have been better for those people but Trion was too smart for that.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I doubt very much Rift will go F2P anytime soon.
SWTOR ? Still hiding behind a NDA. Soo many people are going to be dissapointed with that game.
GW2 summer 2012 if your lucky.
Oh and i dont agree with this new upgrade for £5.00.. if it rakes in a lot of money, well the writings on the wall just like WoW has progressed to RMT.
SWTOR ? Still hiding behind a NDA. Soo many people are going to be dissapointed with that game.
GW2 summer 2012 if your lucky.
Oh and i dont agree with this new upgrade for £5.00.. if it rakes in a lot of money, well the writings on the wall just like WoW has progressed to RMT.
Buddy says these new spider mounts are all over the game right now. Plus the official forums seem like they have a lot of people asking for MORE things to buy like better bags, potions and the like, not less. Seems the armors, pets and other things are severely lacking so at this point people are starving to get them even if they have to pay extra money. Trion has to be highly encouraged by that because they already have the actual cash shop; they probably were just looking for a way to introduce it.
If you really want to see how it's going, the Rift community members (with green names) seem to all be in favor of the move and deny that it's a microtransaction. I'm not sure if they all got a heads-up letter or not but as paying customer to play Rift, they sure like the idea of paying the $10.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Just finished playing about four hours, I saw two spider mounts. Did someone at Trion take your old lady away from you or what?
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
I have to give it to Trion that they made some very smart decisions business-wise and know how to turn them in the least suspicious way. I mean, selling 5$ game keys without game time is already a classic -and a great way to push your "X units sold!1" PR. But if Trion's game designer(s) would have been half as smart, the game wouldn't be in this trouble in first place.
While with the game's settings they took absolutely no risk, the business department shure came up with some innovative moves. And there is 100% more to come from this direction. Anyway, it would have been better for Rift if it's been the other way around. I say it again, the by now the game could have easily hit the 1mio subs mark.
Anyway, I'd prefer a game with an own identity, doing some new moves here and there coming at a standard sub deal, instead of a shallow clone that's being kept from floating belly up not by quality and innovation on it's own, but by doing innovative fp2/freemium/bonus item shop moves.
Read the first page and figured I'd add my two cents. Adding convenience for a cost is fine for me (server xfer, gender change, etc.).
Adding pets and cosmetics is ehhhh for me. It depends on how it is put it in. If you can normally kill a boss, or do a long quest chain (something normally hard and time is required) and get the drop, but later on they add it purchaseable for a price, I'm ok with this. Because I can still grind for it normally. When they add cash shop only cosmetics, they better be damn good cosmetics for me to pay more
Adding real items that are game changers are a no go for me. I'm ok with how Turbine did it in DDO. You could purchase some low level items with a small amount of Turbine Points, like a +1 great mace or whatnot. Something really simple you can easily obtain a few levels into the game. The way DDO works though, makes it a nice convenience if you forget to repair in an instance, or brought the wrong weapon types.
A friend and I were both wielding slashing weapons in a dungeon that had tons of skeletons (we were also playing on a harder difficulty). It was taking us forever, but we could purchase ourselves some shitty low level crushing weapons (+1 2 handed or 1 handed maces), and made life much easier in that dungeon (although still not easy mode since they were low level weapons), and next time we knew to bring real crushing weapos for that instance.
Still though, games that let you purchase the legendary sword of awesomeness for 10 bucks. Nah. I move on to something else.
So, I personally don't see anything wrong with what Trion is doing here. I will agree with people, cash shops are a slippery slope, and one misstep in the shop can kill the game for a lot of people. But as long as they do it correctly, I'll be happy to give a company some more money.