Not going to bitch about it, but I advise all that are against cash shop's to watch very closely at what's Trion is doing.
This kind of scheme is how it is always done. First 1-2 optional items for $, then few more over time, all fluff. So all supporters say "it is fluff only what's your problem" or "get a job loser 10$ is not much".
Insulting people just because they don't agree with you, and using arguments that totally miss the point, but whatever.
Usually after some time when playerbase get used to have few vanity items avabile for $, compay throw some minor advantage (s) things. Drama on forums, it calms down a little. Then either they start adding advantage or rmt things bit by bit or make full conversion to freemium model
This is starting to get old, but suprisingly there are always people that defend it no matter what.
In P2P ALL items should be avabile ONLY in game. Fluff or no fluff .Just my personal opinion.
Originally posted by Rusty715 Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Rusty715
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Rusty715
Originally posted by Epicent
Yes its the way all games are going to be. I have no doubt after BW sets the hook in TOR they will implement RMT as well. Nobody is saying its not happening. But I bought the box and pay a sub so im entitled to bitch about it at every opportunity. Problem is , most gamers today are blind. A lot of us seen it coming and were laughed at because "its only fluff and doesnt effect me". Well, now Blizz has legalized gold selling with cards and a CS pet. The only good thing I can find in this wholel mess will be listening to the "its only fluff" folks scream when the devs shove it in a little deeper than they had thought they would.
That's all a 'maybe'. It's like convicting people of crimes before they even think about doing the crimes. Although, if Trion does offer pay to win options, or overly expensive things, it's not even a crime. It doesn't even get 'shady' until they do things like increase the amount of XP required to level, then offer XP potions for money. Even then, players have a choice to leave the game. If it's unacceptable, people shouldn't spend money on it. If they do spend money on it, enough that the company profits, then it becomes acceptable...the customers accept the offer of the company.
My point, mostly, is that while everyone has the privilege of expressing their opinion (bitching), it's fairly useless. It's not the companies at fault. It's players buying the stuff. There are enough people that want to buy a mount, whether there's the option to earn it in game or not, that it's attractive to the company to offer it. Find a company or a game that offers what you want, at a price you can accept as fair or find something else to do. I'm playing Fallout 3 right now and I think I'm getting my money's worth. Oh, and I'm also spending too much time on these forums.
** a slightly nutty rant starts here, skip it if you want **
My opinion on corporate greed in general is that it's one of the things that is hurting the entire country and is one of the few truly evil things to exist in the world. Products become more expensive, medical procedures are denied, and people are losing their jobs for the sole reason of giving more money to people who already have enough money. Cash shops in video games are a symptom of this. However, I can't complain on these forums (sometimes like a nut), or I can just not give money for stuff that I think exists solely to pad someone's pockets, and I can vote for people who think (as far as I can tell) like I do. I don't think this is really going to change much, since statistically I literally don't count, but I'll at least feel a little better about myself.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If Trion wasn't so unable they could by now bath in money and would not need this BS, nor the smoke and mirrors to hide it. Players were definately interested, 1mio+ games sold is enough of an indication. But what they tried to sell to us as "we're not on Azeroth anymore" turned out to be to most screaming WoW clone that ever hit the market.
You can't copy WoW's success by trying to simply copy WoW -how the hell can this be not clear enough to supposed to be professional game producers? And most of all, you can't copy WoW's success with a version of WOW so tiny in every aspect that it fits into a thimble.
So, after Trion realised that copying WoW didn't work out too well and subs went down shit creek, their next attempt is to copy Blizzard's sparkle pony success. I wonder if they will ever do something they thought out themselves- oh wait... if they could, Rift wouldn't be in such a dilemma in first place.
Good luck with this next copying stunt, as yet again Trion does not see the difference between their product and WoW in regards to inventing an item shop -as in Rift's case cash shop means not enough people are willing to subscribe to your product in first place. It won't prevent Rift from going down to F2P in the process.
Along the way of copying each and every thing Trion missed to give Rift an own identity and soul. And that was just what players were hoping and looking for...and would have willingly paid for. Unlike for pixels in a shop.
If Trion wasn't so unable they could by now bath in money and would not need this BS, nor the smoke and mirrors to hide it. Players were definately interested, 1mio+ games sold is enough of an indication. But what they tried to sell to us as "we're not on Azeroth anymore" turned out to be to most screaming WoW clone that ever hit the market.
You can't copy WoW's success by trying to simply copy WoW -how the hell can this be not clear enough to supposed to be professional game producers? And most of all, you can't copy WoW's success with a version of WOW so tiny in every aspect that it fits into a thimble.
So, after Trion realised that copying WoW didn't work out too well and subs went down shit creek, their next attempt is to copy Blizzard's sparkle pony success. I wonder if they will ever do something they thought out themselves- oh wait... if they could, Rift wouldn't be in such a dilemma in first place.
Good luck with this next copying stunt, as yet again Trion does not see the difference between their product and WoW in regards to inventing an item shop -as in Rift's case cash shop means not enough people are willing to subscribe to your product in first place. It won't prevent Rift from going down to F2P in the process.
Along the way of copying each and every thing Trion missed to give Rift an own identity and soul. And that was just what players were hoping and looking for...and would have willingly paid for. Unlike for pixels in a shop.
Thats the general consensus but I dont see it. I see some WOW elements in Rift yes. But I also see, things from other MMO's as well. The game reminds me of EQ2 in some ways and of course the very similar Warhammer public quests are there as well. I think the "screaming wow clone" title has been granted to about every them park MMO to releases since WOW. LOTRO, AION and Warhammer were all called WOW clones. In my opinion LOTRO is most deserving. At least until TOR releases.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
If they need more money they should increase the subscription cost. Not add a cash shop. I can afford to pay more. But I dont like cash shops.
Normally a company will start with cosmetic items. And they will promise there will only ever be cosmetics for sale. Then there will be convinience items. Like xp potions, fast/insta travel potions, faster rep potions and so on. And they will promise there will only be cosmetics and convenience for sale in the shop. Then later they will start to sell P2W items. Scrolls that enhance and upgrade weapons so they can do more damage, scrolls that add hitpoints and ac to armor, hp and mana potions that are shop only on separate cooldown. Resist scrolls... and so on. And they will try to tell you that those P2W items are not really P2W...And you dont need to buy them. You can play the game without them. And you can have fun anyway and it really should make no difference if people that spend a fortune in the shop are more powerful. Because you can ignore them and have fun anyway.
This is often what happens. And the company and players that support them try to defend it with that type of reasoning. Perhaps that is the worst part. Because it would be less painful to accept if everyone was honest about it without any spin and strange logic.
If Trion wasn't so unable they could by now bath in money and would not need this BS, nor the smoke and mirrors to hide it. Players were definately interested, 1mio+ games sold is enough of an indication. But what they tried to sell to us as "we're not on Azeroth anymore" turned out to be to most screaming WoW clone that ever hit the market.
Oh is it? Alright then, we really need to call in the dogs cause WoW is a pretty blatent Everquest clone I ever did see according to your logic. I'd read further but that comment alone makes me wonder how credible you are if your going to pin a 'wow clone' label on a game for using things that wow pretty much took from other games like everquest. Play runes of magic if you want to call something a wow clone, and even then you can argue that it isn't due to certain aspects. Rift is a lot different, it simply has elements games had before, just like WoW took elements from other games and added it to itself.
Im wondering if it was coincidence that the Spider mount was offered at the same time the world event started with the opportunity to earn a Raptor mount? While im wondering, I will also wonder if Trion will do a count of how many Spiders were purchased and how many Ratpors are earned and act accordingly? I have an idea the players will buy more spiders than earn raptors. As for the above post referring to paying a higher sub to avoid a CS, I would also pay say, $20 a month if it meant keeping MT out of RIft or other games. Problem is, more and more people are crying about a sub fee in games. I have a friend that has never played a P2P MMO in his life. Yet he will buy this and that from a CS and pay $60 for an Xbox game he will be finished with in a week. Go figure.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
3-MONTH: $12.29 /month Save 18% over monthly plan!
6-MONTH: $10.29 /month Save 31% over monthly plan!
ANNUAL: $8.99 /month Save 40% over monthly plan!
They've been pushing hard on the 6 and year plans mostly. This is evidenced by all those plans get "Veteran Rewards" even if you've never played Rift in your life. So pay a one-time fee and get Veteran status with fluff. (don't think the 3 month get Vet status.. can't remember)
So if they are getting people locked into these plans, it actually HURTS Trion, not helps. Look at how much money they'd be losing over that time period. What other "new" companies do you know that can give away such big discounts before they've made back their money? Not many.
Then figure in things they don't (or can't now) charge for doing that everyone else does. Example:
Character race/faction changes.
Character sex changes.
Server changes.
Full service cash shop (not yet)
That's just a few but there are others I haven't mentioned that RIFT either can't do (they don't have the service) or won't do (they've said they won't). So that's a crapload of money Trion is losing out on because of long-term subs. So how else can they get people who don't have to spend money.. to spend money?
Enter the Canadian CE (forever known as the Canuck Maneuver). Rift fans claim 500k subs (which I don't think but lets say ok). If half of those people are bored with the three turtle mounts since launch, and couldn't get a Murdantix/Croc yet they'd be pretty frantic to get something else about now. Trion does the maneuver, and now half the people say "$10? That's not too bad for a new mount! I'll do it" and Trion immediately makes 2.5 million dollars due to pent-up demand.
That's pretty good and hard to go back to that well repeatedly. It's like their first hit of cocaine and they'll be back.
Again, I think it's a very shrewd business move.. one worthy of SoE because when SoE does it, they infuriate their base. When Trion did it, their base didn't even recognize what happened and the ones that did put their heads in the sand and said it wasn't or they counter "Well, Blizzard charges $60 for their pony. So at least Trion isn't making $50 extra", lol.
I think that Rift maybe gonig down the wrong path here on this one too, I am really a pissed off gamer when it comes to things like this.
If people bought the Collectors Edition, and then extra features were add to this in the future my opinion is they should have been included at no additional charge.
If someone had the standard edition of the game and they wanted to update to collectors edition down the road, then maybe they should allow it for a one time charge, as sometimes collector edition games in the actual boxes start to sell for insane prices unless you are talking about Digital Collectors.
* If Trion for some reason decided to start charging people like NC Soft did for Character Customizations, and getting too greedy I would leave the service if it were pay 2 play, as these features should be free to all subscribers unless it requires a GM's assistance in any way.* I love MMO's, but I do not like a MMO company that gets very greedy like NC Soft did with Aion charing simply for changing any little thing about your character, and then adding pets and a virtual cash shop that is what killed Aion for me, otherwise I saw a great potential in both Aion, Tabula Rasa, and Auto Assault, as well as Lineage 2, the game developers and people in charge of the game obviously just did not know what they were doing, but these games could have made a big profit if they had the right development, possibly new versions made and released.
As for Trion possibly going F2P in the future or adding a cash shop I can smell it because a lot of game companies like Blizzard are just getting way too greedy, even Frogster with Runes OF Magic costs way too much which is why I will never buy diamonds from them unless they are Double diamonds, or Tripple Diamonds, as there are other ways to obtain 3 times as many diamonds than buying them directly from frogster at a very cheap rate compared to what they sell for a lot of times.
A lot of MMO Companies like Nexon as well, and Perfect World really over charge its customers games, and a lot of MMO games are going F2P because that seems to be the new model, honestly here is what I think about P2P going F2P.
1. Unless the game is actually going to die, and actually has a very good player base, then do not get greedy because it may cost you.
2. If the game is going to be Free 2 Play, for example Runes OF Magic, or All Points Bulletin, or any other F2P mmorpg consider doing what Real Time Words did, and support Real Money Trading (RMT) in game, and the reason is simple.
Real Money trading would be legal considering you agree to the following.
1. (Game Company Here) is not responsible for third party trades and honoring them trade at your own risk.
2. Add an in game currency system like RTW Points like APB had, or another type of points which allow players to sell for both In game Currency, as well as Points paid with real currency, and freely exchange it between game cash sales in an auction house, and such. ( Also make all purchased items from the items shop Transferable not Bind on Pinkup) As well as considering allowing people to cash out virtual currency for real currency.
After all the game is 100% free to play, people do not have to use real currency in any way, and this would make the game similar to Mindark, and Entropia Universe, or Second Life.
This is just a few random Ideas about supporting Real Money F2P & Real Money Trading, the possible future of MMO's, I mean after all playing a MMO farming materials and such real life takes real life time.
Originally posted by Renoaku I think that Rift maybe gonig down the wrong path here on this one too, I am really a pissed off gamer when it comes to things like this. If people bought the Collectors Edition, and then extra features were add to this in the future my opinion is they should have been included at no additional charge.
Why would Trion pass on potentially 2.5 million dollars in one month when it really doesn't cost them anything to push out the Canuck mount? It'd be stupid as a business not to.
Given that most of their fans don't recognize/care/rationalize that it's actually a microtransaction cash shop, they'd be retarded not to keep charging those fans.
If Rift fans say Trion has 500K subs now, what does Trion care if 250K subs leave but the remaining 250K subs keep buying cash shop items in the future which would more than make up what they'd lose in one-time sub deals? Besides, if you were a fan who hated cashshops or this recent deal.. whatchu gonna do, lol?
This reminds me of Charlie Sheen when he did the comedy thing in Detroit for his "fans" that made me crack up:
According to a newspaper report, disgruntled actor Charlie Sheen's "My Violent Torpedo of Truth/Defeat is Not an Option" tour started in Detroit Saturday night with a thud, leaving a dissatisfied audience and an unfulfilled request for a refund.
A Detroit Free Press story described the audience as "often dissatisfied" and added "most of the crowd wasn't entertained by the loose and disorganized attempt."
The show consisted of Sheen delivering a monologue, playing videos and chatting with the audience.
Noting that Sheen often appeared worried that he was losing the audience, the story says he told a heckler "Sorry, dude, already got your money."
So, you're mad? Too bad. Trion says "Sorry, dude, already got your money" to the 3, 6 and one year sub's.
I wouldn't mind if they'd offer certain services for money, like resetting your char to the char creation screen to enable the player to pick a different look, race changes, mobile phone guild chats etc. In this context they missed a huge opportunity to cash in by making the server transfers free, which brought them alot of points on the "see, trion is sooo much better than blizzard!!1" chart, but was not so smart from a business point of view. I assume Trion noticed that later on and thought to be smarter next time...as we can see now.
Again, take your $ for services outside the game, but content or items in any form being ingame should always remain covered by monthly subscriptions. You just can't refuse content from already paying customers unless they pay an additional fee on top of their sub. That's like saying "the wardrobe costs 10$ extra". Sub must always grant "all inclusive ingame", at least on the western market -or you may lose alot of credibility.
PS: Is it just me or does Trion have a pattern to turn in these rather "unpopular" moves after people re-newed their subs to 3, 6, 12 month?
Originally posted by popinjay Originally posted by Renoaku I think that Rift maybe gonig down the wrong path here on this one too, I am really a pissed off gamer when it comes to things like this. If people bought the Collectors Edition, and then extra features were add to this in the future my opinion is they should have been included at no additional charge. Why would Trion pass on potentially 2.5 million dollars in one month when it really doesn't cost them anything to push out the Canuck mount? It'd be stupid as a business not to.Given that most of their fans don't recognize/care/rationalize that it's actually a microtransaction cash shop, they'd be retarded not to keep charging those fans.If Rift fans say Trion has 500K subs now, what does Trion care if 250K subs leave but the remaining 250K subs keep buying cash shop items in the future which would more than make up what they'd lose in one-time sub deals? Besides, if you were a fan who hated cashshops or this recent deal.. whatchu gonna do, lol?This reminds me of Charlie Sheen when he did the comedy thing in Detroit for his "fans" that made me crack up:According to a newspaper report, disgruntled actor Charlie Sheen's "My Violent Torpedo of Truth/Defeat is Not an Option" tour started in Detroit Saturday night with a thud, leaving a dissatisfied audience and an unfulfilled request for a refund.A Detroit Free Press story described the audience as "often dissatisfied" and added "most of the crowd wasn't entertained by the loose and disorganized attempt."The show consisted of Sheen delivering a monologue, playing videos and chatting with the audience.Noting that Sheen often appeared worried that he was losing the audience, the story says he told a heckler "Sorry, dude, already got your money."
So, you're mad? Too bad. Trion says "Sorry, dude, already got your money" to the 3, 6 and one year sub's.
The people who are already players got what they paid for - a subscription to the game and if they pre-ordered they got a turtle. Trion created new content, in addition to all the existing content. The existing players do not deserve any more than they have already received. Trion already has their money, but they already have their product.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If Trion wasn't so unable they could by now bath in money and would not need this BS, nor the smoke and mirrors to hide it. Players were definately interested, 1mio+ games sold is enough of an indication. But what they tried to sell to us as "we're not on Azeroth anymore" turned out to be to most screaming WoW clone that ever hit the market.
You can't copy WoW's success by trying to simply copy WoW -how the hell can this be not clear enough to supposed to be professional game producers? And most of all, you can't copy WoW's success with a version of WOW so tiny in every aspect that it fits into a thimble.
So, after Trion realised that copying WoW didn't work out too well and subs went down shit creek, their next attempt is to copy Blizzard's sparkle pony success. I wonder if they will ever do something they thought out themselves- oh wait... if they could, Rift wouldn't be in such a dilemma in first place.
Good luck with this next copying stunt, as yet again Trion does not see the difference between their product and WoW in regards to inventing an item shop -as in Rift's case cash shop means not enough people are willing to subscribe to your product in first place. It won't prevent Rift from going down to F2P in the process.
Along the way of copying each and every thing Trion missed to give Rift an own identity and soul. And that was just what players were hoping and looking for...and would have willingly paid for. Unlike for pixels in a shop.
now, its not thAT i like trion or how they handle rift but thats a big fat lie...
the most up right copy&paste wow clone was here long before rift.
alganon
enough said.
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The people who are already players got what they paid for - a subscription to the game and if they pre-ordered they got a turtle. Trion created new content, in addition to all the existing content. The existing players do not deserve any more than they have already received. Trion already has their money, but they already have their product.
This is not in dispute. I don't think the question is one of "value", which you are talking about. It's a subject completely different.
The people who say the spider mount in the trailer and thought "Cool, a new mount to get from the new content coming out" and subbed for six months or a year had no way of knowing that mount was ONLY obtainable through a Canadian CE. Trion did not advertise that fact. Actually many people were asking quite a bit "Where's the quest for the spider mount?" "Who drops the spider mount?" "How do I earn the spider mount?" Normal questions to ask after watching Rift's video. When they found out the only way to get it was through CE, they rightly complained (because it was so featured in the vid)
Trion then gave them all the option to get one by buying it only, and most were happy. The ones who weren't felt Trion tricked them into resubbing by bait and switching; show the mount, then make them pay ADDITIONAL for it.
I say Trion can do what they want because it's their company, they are there to make as MUCH money as they can off their subs (not as little), and the industry is moving that way anyways. But I can see how people had a problem with it because they were given the impression that it was actual game content to be completed, not a cash confirmation purchase.
Trion will not give those subs their six month/year sub refunded so it is definitely a case of ""Sorry, dude, already got your money."
Comments
Not going to bitch about it, but I advise all that are against cash shop's to watch very closely at what's Trion is doing.
This kind of scheme is how it is always done. First 1-2 optional items for $, then few more over time, all fluff. So all supporters say "it is fluff only what's your problem" or "get a job loser 10$ is not much".
Insulting people just because they don't agree with you, and using arguments that totally miss the point, but whatever.
Usually after some time when playerbase get used to have few vanity items avabile for $, compay throw some minor advantage (s) things. Drama on forums, it calms down a little. Then either they start adding advantage or rmt things bit by bit or make full conversion to freemium model
This is starting to get old, but suprisingly there are always people that defend it no matter what.
In P2P ALL items should be avabile ONLY in game. Fluff or no fluff .Just my personal opinion.
Watch what Trion is doing closely from now on.
Yes its the way all games are going to be. I have no doubt after BW sets the hook in TOR they will implement RMT as well. Nobody is saying its not happening. But I bought the box and pay a sub so im entitled to bitch about it at every opportunity. Problem is , most gamers today are blind. A lot of us seen it coming and were laughed at because "its only fluff and doesnt effect me". Well, now Blizz has legalized gold selling with cards and a CS pet. The only good thing I can find in this wholel mess will be listening to the "its only fluff" folks scream when the devs shove it in a little deeper than they had thought they would.
That's all a 'maybe'. It's like convicting people of crimes before they even think about doing the crimes. Although, if Trion does offer pay to win options, or overly expensive things, it's not even a crime. It doesn't even get 'shady' until they do things like increase the amount of XP required to level, then offer XP potions for money. Even then, players have a choice to leave the game. If it's unacceptable, people shouldn't spend money on it. If they do spend money on it, enough that the company profits, then it becomes acceptable...the customers accept the offer of the company.
My point, mostly, is that while everyone has the privilege of expressing their opinion (bitching), it's fairly useless. It's not the companies at fault. It's players buying the stuff. There are enough people that want to buy a mount, whether there's the option to earn it in game or not, that it's attractive to the company to offer it. Find a company or a game that offers what you want, at a price you can accept as fair or find something else to do. I'm playing Fallout 3 right now and I think I'm getting my money's worth. Oh, and I'm also spending too much time on these forums.
** a slightly nutty rant starts here, skip it if you want **
My opinion on corporate greed in general is that it's one of the things that is hurting the entire country and is one of the few truly evil things to exist in the world. Products become more expensive, medical procedures are denied, and people are losing their jobs for the sole reason of giving more money to people who already have enough money. Cash shops in video games are a symptom of this. However, I can't complain on these forums (sometimes like a nut), or I can just not give money for stuff that I think exists solely to pad someone's pockets, and I can vote for people who think (as far as I can tell) like I do. I don't think this is really going to change much, since statistically I literally don't count, but I'll at least feel a little better about myself.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If Trion wasn't so unable they could by now bath in money and would not need this BS, nor the smoke and mirrors to hide it. Players were definately interested, 1mio+ games sold is enough of an indication. But what they tried to sell to us as "we're not on Azeroth anymore" turned out to be to most screaming WoW clone that ever hit the market.
You can't copy WoW's success by trying to simply copy WoW -how the hell can this be not clear enough to supposed to be professional game producers? And most of all, you can't copy WoW's success with a version of WOW so tiny in every aspect that it fits into a thimble.
So, after Trion realised that copying WoW didn't work out too well and subs went down shit creek, their next attempt is to copy Blizzard's sparkle pony success. I wonder if they will ever do something they thought out themselves- oh wait... if they could, Rift wouldn't be in such a dilemma in first place.
Good luck with this next copying stunt, as yet again Trion does not see the difference between their product and WoW in regards to inventing an item shop -as in Rift's case cash shop means not enough people are willing to subscribe to your product in first place. It won't prevent Rift from going down to F2P in the process.
Along the way of copying each and every thing Trion missed to give Rift an own identity and soul. And that was just what players were hoping and looking for...and would have willingly paid for. Unlike for pixels in a shop.
Thats the general consensus but I dont see it. I see some WOW elements in Rift yes. But I also see, things from other MMO's as well. The game reminds me of EQ2 in some ways and of course the very similar Warhammer public quests are there as well. I think the "screaming wow clone" title has been granted to about every them park MMO to releases since WOW. LOTRO, AION and Warhammer were all called WOW clones. In my opinion LOTRO is most deserving. At least until TOR releases.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
If they need more money they should increase the subscription cost. Not add a cash shop. I can afford to pay more. But I dont like cash shops.
Normally a company will start with cosmetic items. And they will promise there will only ever be cosmetics for sale. Then there will be convinience items. Like xp potions, fast/insta travel potions, faster rep potions and so on. And they will promise there will only be cosmetics and convenience for sale in the shop. Then later they will start to sell P2W items. Scrolls that enhance and upgrade weapons so they can do more damage, scrolls that add hitpoints and ac to armor, hp and mana potions that are shop only on separate cooldown. Resist scrolls... and so on. And they will try to tell you that those P2W items are not really P2W...And you dont need to buy them. You can play the game without them. And you can have fun anyway and it really should make no difference if people that spend a fortune in the shop are more powerful. Because you can ignore them and have fun anyway.
This is often what happens. And the company and players that support them try to defend it with that type of reasoning. Perhaps that is the worst part. Because it would be less painful to accept if everyone was honest about it without any spin and strange logic.
Oh is it? Alright then, we really need to call in the dogs cause WoW is a pretty blatent Everquest clone I ever did see according to your logic. I'd read further but that comment alone makes me wonder how credible you are if your going to pin a 'wow clone' label on a game for using things that wow pretty much took from other games like everquest. Play runes of magic if you want to call something a wow clone, and even then you can argue that it isn't due to certain aspects. Rift is a lot different, it simply has elements games had before, just like WoW took elements from other games and added it to itself.
Im wondering if it was coincidence that the Spider mount was offered at the same time the world event started with the opportunity to earn a Raptor mount? While im wondering, I will also wonder if Trion will do a count of how many Spiders were purchased and how many Ratpors are earned and act accordingly? I have an idea the players will buy more spiders than earn raptors. As for the above post referring to paying a higher sub to avoid a CS, I would also pay say, $20 a month if it meant keeping MT out of RIft or other games. Problem is, more and more people are crying about a sub fee in games. I have a friend that has never played a P2P MMO in his life. Yet he will buy this and that from a CS and pay $60 for an Xbox game he will be finished with in a week. Go figure.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
I think this is exactly it though.. look at Rift' current pricing model.
Fall Festival Subscription Plans (available October 12 November 9
MONTHLY: $14.99 /month
3-MONTH: $12.29 /month
Save 18% over monthly plan!
6-MONTH: $10.29 /month
Save 31% over monthly plan!
ANNUAL: $8.99 /month
Save 40% over monthly plan!
They've been pushing hard on the 6 and year plans mostly. This is evidenced by all those plans get "Veteran Rewards" even if you've never played Rift in your life. So pay a one-time fee and get Veteran status with fluff. (don't think the 3 month get Vet status.. can't remember)
So if they are getting people locked into these plans, it actually HURTS Trion, not helps. Look at how much money they'd be losing over that time period. What other "new" companies do you know that can give away such big discounts before they've made back their money? Not many.
Then figure in things they don't (or can't now) charge for doing that everyone else does. Example:
Character race/faction changes.
Character sex changes.
Server changes.
Full service cash shop (not yet)
That's just a few but there are others I haven't mentioned that RIFT either can't do (they don't have the service) or won't do (they've said they won't). So that's a crapload of money Trion is losing out on because of long-term subs. So how else can they get people who don't have to spend money.. to spend money?
Enter the Canadian CE (forever known as the Canuck Maneuver). Rift fans claim 500k subs (which I don't think but lets say ok). If half of those people are bored with the three turtle mounts since launch, and couldn't get a Murdantix/Croc yet they'd be pretty frantic to get something else about now. Trion does the maneuver, and now half the people say "$10? That's not too bad for a new mount! I'll do it" and Trion immediately makes 2.5 million dollars due to pent-up demand.
That's pretty good and hard to go back to that well repeatedly. It's like their first hit of cocaine and they'll be back.
Again, I think it's a very shrewd business move.. one worthy of SoE because when SoE does it, they infuriate their base. When Trion did it, their base didn't even recognize what happened and the ones that did put their heads in the sand and said it wasn't or they counter "Well, Blizzard charges $60 for their pony. So at least Trion isn't making $50 extra", lol.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I think that Rift maybe gonig down the wrong path here on this one too, I am really a pissed off gamer when it comes to things like this.
If people bought the Collectors Edition, and then extra features were add to this in the future my opinion is they should have been included at no additional charge.
If someone had the standard edition of the game and they wanted to update to collectors edition down the road, then maybe they should allow it for a one time charge, as sometimes collector edition games in the actual boxes start to sell for insane prices unless you are talking about Digital Collectors.
* If Trion for some reason decided to start charging people like NC Soft did for Character Customizations, and getting too greedy I would leave the service if it were pay 2 play, as these features should be free to all subscribers unless it requires a GM's assistance in any way.* I love MMO's, but I do not like a MMO company that gets very greedy like NC Soft did with Aion charing simply for changing any little thing about your character, and then adding pets and a virtual cash shop that is what killed Aion for me, otherwise I saw a great potential in both Aion, Tabula Rasa, and Auto Assault, as well as Lineage 2, the game developers and people in charge of the game obviously just did not know what they were doing, but these games could have made a big profit if they had the right development, possibly new versions made and released.
As for Trion possibly going F2P in the future or adding a cash shop I can smell it because a lot of game companies like Blizzard are just getting way too greedy, even Frogster with Runes OF Magic costs way too much which is why I will never buy diamonds from them unless they are Double diamonds, or Tripple Diamonds, as there are other ways to obtain 3 times as many diamonds than buying them directly from frogster at a very cheap rate compared to what they sell for a lot of times.
A lot of MMO Companies like Nexon as well, and Perfect World really over charge its customers games, and a lot of MMO games are going F2P because that seems to be the new model, honestly here is what I think about P2P going F2P.
1. Unless the game is actually going to die, and actually has a very good player base, then do not get greedy because it may cost you.
2. If the game is going to be Free 2 Play, for example Runes OF Magic, or All Points Bulletin, or any other F2P mmorpg consider doing what Real Time Words did, and support Real Money Trading (RMT) in game, and the reason is simple.
Real Money trading would be legal considering you agree to the following.
1. (Game Company Here) is not responsible for third party trades and honoring them trade at your own risk.
2. Add an in game currency system like RTW Points like APB had, or another type of points which allow players to sell for both In game Currency, as well as Points paid with real currency, and freely exchange it between game cash sales in an auction house, and such. ( Also make all purchased items from the items shop Transferable not Bind on Pinkup) As well as considering allowing people to cash out virtual currency for real currency.
After all the game is 100% free to play, people do not have to use real currency in any way, and this would make the game similar to Mindark, and Entropia Universe, or Second Life.
This is just a few random Ideas about supporting Real Money F2P & Real Money Trading, the possible future of MMO's, I mean after all playing a MMO farming materials and such real life takes real life time.
Given that most of their fans don't recognize/care/rationalize that it's actually a microtransaction cash shop, they'd be retarded not to keep charging those fans.
If Rift fans say Trion has 500K subs now, what does Trion care if 250K subs leave but the remaining 250K subs keep buying cash shop items in the future which would more than make up what they'd lose in one-time sub deals? Besides, if you were a fan who hated cashshops or this recent deal.. whatchu gonna do, lol?
This reminds me of Charlie Sheen when he did the comedy thing in Detroit for his "fans" that made me crack up:
So, you're mad? Too bad. Trion says "Sorry, dude, already got your money" to the 3, 6 and one year sub's.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I wouldn't mind if they'd offer certain services for money, like resetting your char to the char creation screen to enable the player to pick a different look, race changes, mobile phone guild chats etc. In this context they missed a huge opportunity to cash in by making the server transfers free, which brought them alot of points on the "see, trion is sooo much better than blizzard!!1" chart, but was not so smart from a business point of view. I assume Trion noticed that later on and thought to be smarter next time...as we can see now.
Again, take your $ for services outside the game, but content or items in any form being ingame should always remain covered by monthly subscriptions. You just can't refuse content from already paying customers unless they pay an additional fee on top of their sub. That's like saying "the wardrobe costs 10$ extra". Sub must always grant "all inclusive ingame", at least on the western market -or you may lose alot of credibility.
PS: Is it just me or does Trion have a pattern to turn in these rather "unpopular" moves after people re-newed their subs to 3, 6, 12 month?
So, you're mad? Too bad. Trion says "Sorry, dude, already got your money" to the 3, 6 and one year sub's.
The people who are already players got what they paid for - a subscription to the game and if they pre-ordered they got a turtle. Trion created new content, in addition to all the existing content. The existing players do not deserve any more than they have already received. Trion already has their money, but they already have their product.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
now, its not thAT i like trion or how they handle rift but thats a big fat lie...
the most up right copy&paste wow clone was here long before rift.
alganon
enough said.
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The people who say the spider mount in the trailer and thought "Cool, a new mount to get from the new content coming out" and subbed for six months or a year had no way of knowing that mount was ONLY obtainable through a Canadian CE. Trion did not advertise that fact. Actually many people were asking quite a bit "Where's the quest for the spider mount?" "Who drops the spider mount?" "How do I earn the spider mount?" Normal questions to ask after watching Rift's video. When they found out the only way to get it was through CE, they rightly complained (because it was so featured in the vid)
Trion then gave them all the option to get one by buying it only, and most were happy. The ones who weren't felt Trion tricked them into resubbing by bait and switching; show the mount, then make them pay ADDITIONAL for it.
I say Trion can do what they want because it's their company, they are there to make as MUCH money as they can off their subs (not as little), and the industry is moving that way anyways. But I can see how people had a problem with it because they were given the impression that it was actual game content to be completed, not a cash confirmation purchase.
Trion will not give those subs their six month/year sub refunded so it is definitely a case of ""Sorry, dude, already got your money."
"TO MICHAEL!"