Originally posted by Epicent If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
People are upset because the company didn't give them one of three reasonable ways to earn the mount in game:
1. Quest
2. Drop from RNG
3. Reputation grind with coins
They do have a point since all those options were completely viable and since the company hadn't yet decided to "sell" the CE to everyone, why not just add it as content?
If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
People are upset because the company didn't give them one of three reasonable ways to earn the mount in game:
1. Quest
2. Drop from RNG
3. Reputation grind with coins
They do have a point since all those options were completely viable and since the company hadn't yet decided to "sell" the CE to everyone, why not just add it as content?
Its a mount. Why does it have to be optional to earn it in game. its purely cosmetic. They didnt add it as new content because they wanted to make money of course. Trion is a company after all and the goal of any company is to make money in the end. And if it improves the game and they keep adding content and events Im good with it. May even consider purchasing it. It reminds me more of the guild wars cash shop than anything. Which isnt a bad thing. Doesn't OP your character. And I do realize guild wars is F2P but that is irrelevant. When you sub to Rift every month you know it has a sub fee.
First of all if tthose that felt slighted by being left out of the item,should have easily realized that to even things up they would be charged the same CE price otherwise then the CE purchases would complain.
My personal feeling onm the entire matter is that no game anywhere shoudl be offering bribes because no matter how you slice and dice it ,that is all it is a bribe.Preorders are the worst and anything a game can give you in "virtual" is NEVER worth what the real money cost you for any special or limited edition.You also NEVER own anything virtual you are just in essence since you spend extra money for it just renting those virtual items.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
I have a feeling those wanting so spend money above the sub fee want to have eveything handed to them. Entitlment mentality anyone?
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Originally posted by Epicent If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
I have a feeling those wanting so spend money above the sub fee want to have eveything handed to them. Entitlment mentality anyone?
The Hyperbole Flies Fast and Furious on the MMORPG.Com Forums! Catch it Now, Now, Now (echo, echo, echo)!
** edit ** Seriously people. This is how the entire world works. When I order cable, I can get basic cable, or basic cable and movie channels, which I cannot otherwise get unless I rent the DvDs. I can rent a 1 bedroom apartment, or for more money I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment. I can buy a base model car, or for more money I can get the deluxe model. And so on.
Would it be best to pay one price and get the whole thing? Well, yes. Nothing but 4 bedroom apartments and nothing but cable companies selling all the channels at a reasonable price would be great. That's not how the world works. Expecting it to not affect video games is naive.
Join 'Occupy Wall Street', or better yet, vote for people who actually reflect your wants instead of the corporate friendly Democrats or Republicans* and maybe one day things will be different.
* Technically, this requires that most everyone do it. It's not enough if just the people on these forums do it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Epicent Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Epicent If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
People are upset because the company didn't give them one of three reasonable ways to earn the mount in game:
1. Quest 2. Drop from RNG 3. Reputation grind with coins
They do have a point since all those options were completely viable and since the company hadn't yet decided to "sell" the CE to everyone, why not just add it as content?
Its a mount. Why does it have to be optional to earn it in game. its purely cosmetic. They didnt add it as new content because they wanted to make money of course. Trion is a company after all and the goal of any company is to make money in the end. And if it improves the game and they keep adding content and events Im good with it. May even consider purchasing it. It reminds me more of the guild wars cash shop than anything. Which isnt a bad thing. Doesn't OP your character. And I do realize guild wars is F2P but that is irrelevant. When you sub to Rift every month you know it has a sub fee.
I'm not saying it has to be earned in game.
You didn't understand why people got upset. I told you.
They would have rather had it as playable content to be earned as fun rather than a purchase.. you know, something that would have been fun to do rather than confirming a cash sale? Kind of like how it used to be in mmos.
I know why Trion did it, they are hurting for cash and they would like to ease the base into their upcoming cash shop with little fuss. You can't just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did. You have to start small and show the people that cash purchases are no big deal; get them to stick a big toe in the water first. After awhile, they'll get used to the idea so when you put the items in shops this way it doesn't seem strange because by then, no one will care that you promised "no cash shops" years earlier.
I think it's a good business move actually because ultimately it's a business which means making money. They don't make any money if they basically give it away as free content earned in-game.
If you assume Trion has 400K subs (which people do) and figure at least 1/3rd of those people want this mount and are willing to pay for it as a cash purchase, that's around 1.3 million dollars they could earn.
If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
I have a feeling those wanting so spend money above the sub fee want to have eveything handed to them. Entitlment mentality anyone?
The Hyperbole Flies Fast and Furious on the MMORPG.Com Forums! Catch it Now, Now, Now (echo, echo, echo)!
** edit **
Seriously people. This is how the entire world works. When I order cable, I can get basic cable, or basic cable and movie channels, which I cannot otherwise get unless I rent the DvDs. I can rent a 1 bedroom apartment, or for more money I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment. I can buy a base model car, or for more money I can get the deluxe model. And so on.
Would it be best to pay one price and get the whole thing? Well, yes. Nothing but 4 bedroom apartments and nothing but cable companies selling all the channels at a reasonable price would be great. That's not how the world works. Expecting it to not affect video games is naive.
Join 'Occupy Wall Street', or better yet, vote for people who actually reflect your wants instead of the corporate friendly Democrats or Republicans* and maybe one day things will be different.
* Technically, this requires that most everyone do it. It's not enough if just the people on these forums do it.
Not talking about cable we are talking about MMO's. There are only two reasons this is happening in the MMO genre. Greed, and peoples willingness to buy into it. Im not sure how MMO games stayed afloat before the sub fee + cash shop models, unless it was by actually making a good game and keeping people subbed with the addition of good content. If Trion has 400K subs (dont know but its what ive seen stated) they do not need to introduce this F2P crap into the game anymore than Blizz needed to introduce the Sparkle Pony into WOW. Greed and the realization by the devs that some people have no self control. If a P2P game cannot make it on its own merits then maybe it shouldnt survive. Look at STO. The absolute worst POS ive ever tried to play. Ever wonder how many stupid people are keeping that game alive by buying items that should be included in a game with a sub fee? But in the end, people usually get exactly what they deserve.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
it was funny to see how many people on the forums were going ape shit over Trions cash shop account "upgrade". ITS WRONG!! blah blah blah.
then i log into the game and EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! has the spider mount. so obviously no matter how much people bitch about it they still buy it which completely ruins the movement to stop cash shop items from coming again in the future.
it was funny to see how many people on the forums were going ape shit over Trions cash shop account "upgrade". ITS WRONG!! blah blah blah.
then i log into the game and EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! has the spider mount. so obviously no matter how much people bitch about it they still buy it which completely ruins the movement to stop cash shop items from coming again in the future.
good job dumbasses
it would be interesting to see how many who see it as the gimmick it is go ahead and buy it. Dumbasses is correct. I sometimes wonder how people manage their day to day finances, or maybe they just dont.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
People are upset because the company didn't give them one of three reasonable ways to earn the mount in game:
1. Quest
2. Drop from RNG
3. Reputation grind with coins
They do have a point since all those options were completely viable and since the company hadn't yet decided to "sell" the CE to everyone, why not just add it as content?
Its a mount. Why does it have to be optional to earn it in game. its purely cosmetic. They didnt add it as new content because they wanted to make money of course. Trion is a company after all and the goal of any company is to make money in the end. And if it improves the game and they keep adding content and events Im good with it. May even consider purchasing it. It reminds me more of the guild wars cash shop than anything. Which isnt a bad thing. Doesn't OP your character. And I do realize guild wars is F2P but that is irrelevant. When you sub to Rift every month you know it has a sub fee.
I'm not saying it has to be earned in game.
You didn't understand why people got upset. I told you.
They would have rather had it as playable content to be earned as fun rather than a purchase.. you know, something that would have been fun to do rather than confirming a cash sale? Kind of like how it used to be in mmos.
I know why Trion did it, they are hurting for cash and they would like to ease the base into their upcoming cash shop with little fuss. You can't just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did. You have to start small and show the people that cash purchases are no big deal; get them to stick a big toe in the water first. After awhile, they'll get used to the idea so when you put the items in shops this way it doesn't seem strange because by then, no one will care that you promised "no cash shops" years earlier.
I think it's a good business move actually because ultimately it's a business which means making money. They don't make any money if they basically give it away as free content earned in-game.
If you assume Trion has 400K subs (which people do) and figure at least 1/3rd of those people want this mount and are willing to pay for it as a cash purchase, that's around 1.3 million dollars they could earn.
quote "You cant just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did." hmmm, seems to have worked for WoW when they said the exact same thing. Just sayin.
If it has nothing to do with character stats and making anyone OP then whats the problem? I have a feeling those complaining are the ones that want EVERYTHING in the game so play 24/7 and have no job to buy the extra fluff items. Moms basement anyone?
I have a feeling those wanting so spend money above the sub fee want to have eveything handed to them. Entitlment mentality anyone?
I could care less about mounts. I said I'd consider getting it because I like Trion and the things they do. Never once have I bought anything non cosmetic from a cash shop and am firmly against it. Also..........even if I did buy it would it really have been "handed" to me since I earned the real life money to get it. On that premise I could say that EVERYTHING in the game was "handed" to you due to the fact that your mommy still pays your net bill.
it was funny to see how many people on the forums were going ape shit over Trions cash shop account "upgrade". ITS WRONG!! blah blah blah.
then i log into the game and EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! has the spider mount. so obviously no matter how much people bitch about it they still buy it which completely ruins the movement to stop cash shop items from coming again in the future.
good job dumbasses
it would be interesting to see how many who see it as the gimmick it is go ahead and buy it. Dumbasses is correct. I sometimes wonder how people manage their day to day finances, or maybe they just dont.
everyone has it, so pretty much anyone who did see it as a gimmick did buy it anyways. so now Trion has the reinforcement that they can pretty much charge you real money for any item and everyone will gobble it up. Trion is doing good in following Blizzard's foot steps.
Trion is a business and are out to make money. Good luck to them! Also who cares..it cost me £5.
£5 is not alot of money for someone who works and if your not working well then get off ur ass and get a job or...if your too young to work ask mummy and daddy.. If they cant afford £5 then they should of chosen a different career path.
Anyway off to enjoy my new mount and bank some items.. Cya soon.
(Edit. If your unable to work due to ilness or incapacitated then I'm sure your benefits are enough to treat yourself to a new mount etc. So enjoy)
it was funny to see how many people on the forums were going ape shit over Trions cash shop account "upgrade". ITS WRONG!! blah blah blah.
then i log into the game and EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! has the spider mount. so obviously no matter how much people bitch about it they still buy it which completely ruins the movement to stop cash shop items from coming again in the future.
good job dumbasses
it would be interesting to see how many who see it as the gimmick it is go ahead and buy it. Dumbasses is correct. I sometimes wonder how people manage their day to day finances, or maybe they just dont.
everyone has it, so pretty much anyone who did see it as a gimmick did buy it anyways. so now Trion has the reinforcement that they can pretty much charge you real money for any item and everyone will gobble it up. Trion is doing good in following Blizzard's foot steps.
Yes it seems they are testing the waters, considering the spider mount could have been something one could get from the world event, like the raptor. I would say " i must be getting old" but ive got kids that think supporting a CS is insane too lol. Guess there is nothing to be done other than keep on eye on things and when it gets too bad (and it will get worse) move on.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Originally posted by Epicent quote "You cant just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did." hmmm, seems to have worked for WoW when they said the exact same thing. Just sayin.
Yeah, but you have to understand that by the time Wow added their cash shops, players were already heavily invested for years with friends, guilds, character advancement, etc. They weren't going to split because a cash shop was put in. Some did, most stayed beause it simply was the best game out by far (up for debate by many for different reasons).
Also, WoW first started doing those cash "special event" deals, those items were sold ONCE then gone. Half of the things WoW had years ago you can't buy in their cash shop which gives those players exclusivity and will likely mean they aren't so easy to ditch their toons.
If Rift gives everyone a spider mount (which they just did) players don't feel special or connected because if they unsub and come back in six months, they can buy whatever items they missed. That was the secret to WoW's sales early; if you missed the sale when it was out.. you missed it for good. Rift on the other hand still has the original "CE" for sale.
Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game" afaik. Rift said that from what the fans say. That's a hard thing to walk back from because if you are claiming the game is doing great and the only competition WoW had in years, then why are you selling things on the side for cash if there's no emergency?
Also, Blizzard didn't disguise it. It was outright fluff items and mounts for sale, not ninja "CE" items draped over by a Canadian maple leaf.
Trion is a business and are out to make money. Good luck to them! Also who cares..it cost me £5.
£5 is not alot of money for someone who works and if your not working well then get off ur ass and get a job or...if your too young to work ask mummy and daddy.. If they cant afford £5 then they should of chosen a different career path.
Anyway off to enjoy my new mount and bank some items.. Cya soon.
(Edit. If your unable to work due to ilness or incapacitated then I'm sure your benefits are enough to treat yourself to a new mount etc. So enjoy)
LOL. Nope, $10 isnt a lot of money but im not going to give it to a game company for something that until a few years ago would have been included in the game. Im sure Trion appreciates you business.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
The only issue I have is that Trion went out of its way to say Rift will not have a cash shop and then implemented one after all. Yes, they probably need the money at this point, but be honest about it. Dont try to pawn it off as not being a cash shop. Just say something along the lines of 'our goal is to continue providing you timely updates and stellar service and we felt our current earning did not support what we want to do'.
This is the exact stuff that SoE or Blizzard would do and why a lot of people hate those companies (especially SoE). So it is kind of a big deal because its developer dishonesty.
I have no problems with the cash shop though. Just be honest.
Trion is a business and are out to make money. Good luck to them! Also who cares..it cost me £5.
£5 is not alot of money for someone who works and if your not working well then get off ur ass and get a job or...if your too young to work ask mummy and daddy.. If they cant afford £5 then they should of chosen a different career path.
Anyway off to enjoy my new mount and bank some items.. Cya soon.
(Edit. If your unable to work due to ilness or incapacitated then I'm sure your benefits are enough to treat yourself to a new mount etc. So enjoy)
Its extremely offensive what you posted. Because people like us do not like supporting companies that trick fuck their playerbase with cash shop items disguised as account upgrades doesnt mean we are teenagers or unemployed losers.
I work, go to school full time, take care of my girlfriend,mother, pets, pay my bills on time, and all the other shit we do as grown ups in our society and i do have money to spend on a pos spider/banker account "upgrade". But i will never give into the greed disguised as improving their game/community.
what Trion is doing is wrong and if you wanna buy into their bullshit then go ahead. just keep your petty assumptions about the rest of us to yourself.
quote "You cant just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did." hmmm, seems to have worked for WoW when they said the exact same thing. Just sayin.
Yeah, but you have to understand that by the time Wow added their cash shops, players were already heavily invested for years with friends, guilds, character advancement, etc. They weren't going to split because a cash shop was put in. Some did, most stayed beause it simply was the best game out by far (up for debate by many for different reasons).
Also, WoW first started doing those cash "special event" deals, those items were sold ONCE then gone. Half of the things WoW had years ago you can't buy in their cash shop which gives those players exclusivity and will likely mean they aren't so easy to ditch their toons.
If Rift gives everyone a spider mount (which they just did) players don't feel special or connected because if they unsub and come back in six months, they can buy whatever items they missed. That was the secret to WoW's sales early; if you missed the sale when it was out.. you missed it for good. Rift on the other hand still has the original "CE" for sale.
Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game" afaik. Rift said that from what the fans say. That's a hard thing to walk back from because if you are claiming the game is doing great and the only competition WoW had in years, then why are you selling things on the side for cash if there's no emergency?
Also, Blizzard didn't disguise it. It was outright fluff items and mounts for sale, not ninja "CE" items draped over by a Canadian maple leaf.
Quote "Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game."
Quote by Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008):
"We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later."
Maybe you should do your homework before making certain allegations.
Originally posted by Rusty715 Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Rusty715
Originally posted by Epicent
** edit ** Seriously people. This is how the entire world works. When I order cable, I can get basic cable, or basic cable and movie channels, which I cannot otherwise get unless I rent the DvDs. I can rent a 1 bedroom apartment, or for more money I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment. I can buy a base model car, or for more money I can get the deluxe model. And so on.
Would it be best to pay one price and get the whole thing? Well, yes. Nothing but 4 bedroom apartments and nothing but cable companies selling all the channels at a reasonable price would be great. That's not how the world works. Expecting it to not affect video games is naive.
Join 'Occupy Wall Street', or better yet, vote for people who actually reflect your wants instead of the corporate friendly Democrats or Republicans* and maybe one day things will be different.
* Technically, this requires that most everyone do it. It's not enough if just the people on these forums do it.
Not talking about cable we are talking about MMO's. There are only two reasons this is happening in the MMO genre. Greed, and peoples willingness to buy into it. Im not sure how MMO games stayed afloat before the sub fee + cash shop models, unless it was by actually making a good game and keeping people subbed with the addition of good content. If Trion has 400K subs (dont know but its what ive seen stated) they do not need to introduce this F2P crap into the game anymore than Blizz needed to introduce the Sparkle Pony into WOW. Greed and the realization by the devs that some people have no self control. If a P2P game cannot make it on its own merits then maybe it shouldnt survive. Look at STO. The absolute worst POS ive ever tried to play. Ever wonder how many stupid people are keeping that game alive by buying items that should be included in a game with a sub fee? But in the end, people usually get exactly what they deserve.
You are confusing "Things I Don't Like" with "Things That Are Morally Wrong". Trion is not stealing anything. Trion is not causing murder, nor are they causing any mayhem. They are not keeping other companies from competing in any way. They aren't keeping players from having mounts unless they spend more money. They are just offering a beginner level mount from the cash shop for money. In other words, they are offering a product under terms they believe are acceptable. Aside from a vocal minority, the players find those terms acceptable if the number of spider mounts running around are any indication.
Of course it is a way for Trion to make more money. I don't think anyone would argue that point. It's how people have been making more money for thousands of years. Even before there was money. "You can have a little cow for 10 chickens, but if you give me 20 chickens, you can have this really big cow that will not only give you milk, but pull your plow!"
Again, it is naive to think that this isn't going to be prevalent in all games eventually. You just have to decide which games offer what you want under terms you find acceptable. If the terms are not acceptable, take your money elsewhere. If you're tired of corporate greed, vote for people who are also tired of corporate greed. It may not change much, but you will have at least done more than complain anonymously on an internet message board.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Epicent Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Epicent
quote "You cant just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did." hmmm, seems to have worked for WoW when they said the exact same thing. Just sayin.
Yeah, but you have to understand that by the time Wow added their cash shops, players were already heavily invested for years with friends, guilds, character advancement, etc. They weren't going to split because a cash shop was put in. Some did, most stayed beause it simply was the best game out by far (up for debate by many for different reasons).
Also, WoW first started doing those cash "special event" deals, those items were sold ONCE then gone. Half of the things WoW had years ago you can't buy in their cash shop which gives those players exclusivity and will likely mean they aren't so easy to ditch their toons.
If Rift gives everyone a spider mount (which they just did) players don't feel special or connected because if they unsub and come back in six months, they can buy whatever items they missed. That was the secret to WoW's sales early; if you missed the sale when it was out.. you missed it for good. Rift on the other hand still has the original "CE" for sale.
Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game" afaik. Rift said that from what the fans say. That's a hard thing to walk back from because if you are claiming the game is doing great and the only competition WoW had in years, then why are you selling things on the side for cash if there's no emergency?
Also, Blizzard didn't disguise it. It was outright fluff items and mounts for sale, not ninja "CE" items draped over by a Canadian maple leaf. Quote "Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game." Quote by Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008): "We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later." Maybe you should do your homework before making certain allegations. See the red part above?
Quote by Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008):
"We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later."
Maybe you should do your homework before making certain allegations.
The irony was by 2008 Blizzard had already entered the grey area of MT with their TCG, which to me is worse because it had people spending money in hopes of getting in game loot.. just because a very small amount of people actually play the game doesnt hide its intention.
You are confusing "Things I Don't Like" with "Things That Are Morally Wrong".
Telling players one thing, then doing the exact opposite while trying to spin it that you are not *is* morally wrong. Its not a severe offense, but it is a bait and switch forpeople that signed on partially because of the promised no cash shop.
Seriously people. This is how the entire world works. When I order cable, I can get basic cable, or basic cable and movie channels, which I cannot otherwise get unless I rent the DvDs. I can rent a 1 bedroom apartment, or for more money I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment. I can buy a base model car, or for more money I can get the deluxe model. And so on.
Would it be best to pay one price and get the whole thing? Well, yes. Nothing but 4 bedroom apartments and nothing but cable companies selling all the channels at a reasonable price would be great. That's not how the world works. Expecting it to not affect video games is naive.
Join 'Occupy Wall Street', or better yet, vote for people who actually reflect your wants instead of the corporate friendly Democrats or Republicans* and maybe one day things will be different.
* Technically, this requires that most everyone do it. It's not enough if just the people on these forums do it.
Not talking about cable we are talking about MMO's. There are only two reasons this is happening in the MMO genre. Greed, and peoples willingness to buy into it. Im not sure how MMO games stayed afloat before the sub fee + cash shop models, unless it was by actually making a good game and keeping people subbed with the addition of good content. If Trion has 400K subs (dont know but its what ive seen stated) they do not need to introduce this F2P crap into the game anymore than Blizz needed to introduce the Sparkle Pony into WOW. Greed and the realization by the devs that some people have no self control. If a P2P game cannot make it on its own merits then maybe it shouldnt survive. Look at STO. The absolute worst POS ive ever tried to play. Ever wonder how many stupid people are keeping that game alive by buying items that should be included in a game with a sub fee? But in the end, people usually get exactly what they deserve.
You are confusing "Things I Don't Like" with "Things That Are Morally Wrong". Trion is not stealing anything. Trion is not causing murder, nor are they causing any mayhem. They are not keeping other companies from competing in any way. They aren't keeping players from having mounts unless they spend more money. They are just offering a beginner level mount from the cash shop for money. In other words, they are offering a product under terms they believe are acceptable. Aside from a vocal minority, the players find those terms acceptable if the number of spider mounts running around are any indication.
Of course it is a way for Trion to make more money. I don't think anyone would argue that point. It's how people have been making more money for thousands of years. Even before there was money. "You can have a little cow for 10 chickens, but if you give me 20 chickens, you can have this really big cow that will not only give you milk, but pull your plow!"
Again, it is naive to think that this isn't going to be prevalent in all games eventually. You just have to decide which games offer what you want under terms you find acceptable. If the terms are not acceptable, take your money elsewhere. If you're tired of corporate greed, vote for people who are also tired of corporate greed. It may not change much, but you will have at least done more than complain anonymously on an internet message board.
Yes its the way all games are going to be. I have no doubt after BW sets the hook in TOR they will implement RMT as well. Nobody is saying its not happening. But I bought the box and pay a sub so im entitled to bitch about it at every opportunity. Problem is , most gamers today are blind. A lot of us seen it coming and were laughed at because "its only fluff and doesnt effect me". Well, now Blizz has legalized gold selling with cards and a CS pet. The only good thing I can find in this wholel mess will be listening to the "its only fluff" folks scream when the devs shove it in a little deeper than they had thought they would.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
NA/Euro companies have to realizer that what works with an asian audience might not work with us and vice-versa. NA/EU audiences are very very careful about cash shops.
Another case in point; the Eve monocle debacle that caused thousands of unsubs.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Comments
1. Quest
2. Drop from RNG
3. Reputation grind with coins
They do have a point since all those options were completely viable and since the company hadn't yet decided to "sell" the CE to everyone, why not just add it as content?
"TO MICHAEL!"
Its a mount. Why does it have to be optional to earn it in game. its purely cosmetic. They didnt add it as new content because they wanted to make money of course. Trion is a company after all and the goal of any company is to make money in the end. And if it improves the game and they keep adding content and events Im good with it. May even consider purchasing it. It reminds me more of the guild wars cash shop than anything. Which isnt a bad thing. Doesn't OP your character. And I do realize guild wars is F2P but that is irrelevant. When you sub to Rift every month you know it has a sub fee.
First of all if tthose that felt slighted by being left out of the item,should have easily realized that to even things up they would be charged the same CE price otherwise then the CE purchases would complain.
My personal feeling onm the entire matter is that no game anywhere shoudl be offering bribes because no matter how you slice and dice it ,that is all it is a bribe.Preorders are the worst and anything a game can give you in "virtual" is NEVER worth what the real money cost you for any special or limited edition.You also NEVER own anything virtual you are just in essence since you spend extra money for it just renting those virtual items.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have a feeling those wanting so spend money above the sub fee want to have eveything handed to them. Entitlment mentality anyone?
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
The Hyperbole Flies Fast and Furious on the MMORPG.Com Forums! Catch it Now, Now, Now (echo, echo, echo)!
** edit **
Seriously people. This is how the entire world works. When I order cable, I can get basic cable, or basic cable and movie channels, which I cannot otherwise get unless I rent the DvDs. I can rent a 1 bedroom apartment, or for more money I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment. I can buy a base model car, or for more money I can get the deluxe model. And so on.
Would it be best to pay one price and get the whole thing? Well, yes. Nothing but 4 bedroom apartments and nothing but cable companies selling all the channels at a reasonable price would be great. That's not how the world works. Expecting it to not affect video games is naive.
Join 'Occupy Wall Street', or better yet, vote for people who actually reflect your wants instead of the corporate friendly Democrats or Republicans* and maybe one day things will be different.
* Technically, this requires that most everyone do it. It's not enough if just the people on these forums do it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
People are upset because the company didn't give them one of three reasonable ways to earn the mount in game:
1. Quest
2. Drop from RNG
3. Reputation grind with coins
They do have a point since all those options were completely viable and since the company hadn't yet decided to "sell" the CE to everyone, why not just add it as content?
Its a mount. Why does it have to be optional to earn it in game. its purely cosmetic. They didnt add it as new content because they wanted to make money of course. Trion is a company after all and the goal of any company is to make money in the end. And if it improves the game and they keep adding content and events Im good with it. May even consider purchasing it. It reminds me more of the guild wars cash shop than anything. Which isnt a bad thing. Doesn't OP your character. And I do realize guild wars is F2P but that is irrelevant. When you sub to Rift every month you know it has a sub fee.
I'm not saying it has to be earned in game.
You didn't understand why people got upset. I told you.
They would have rather had it as playable content to be earned as fun rather than a purchase.. you know, something that would have been fun to do rather than confirming a cash sale? Kind of like how it used to be in mmos.
I know why Trion did it, they are hurting for cash and they would like to ease the base into their upcoming cash shop with little fuss. You can't just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did. You have to start small and show the people that cash purchases are no big deal; get them to stick a big toe in the water first. After awhile, they'll get used to the idea so when you put the items in shops this way it doesn't seem strange because by then, no one will care that you promised "no cash shops" years earlier.
I think it's a good business move actually because ultimately it's a business which means making money. They don't make any money if they basically give it away as free content earned in-game.
If you assume Trion has 400K subs (which people do) and figure at least 1/3rd of those people want this mount and are willing to pay for it as a cash purchase, that's around 1.3 million dollars they could earn.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Not talking about cable we are talking about MMO's. There are only two reasons this is happening in the MMO genre. Greed, and peoples willingness to buy into it. Im not sure how MMO games stayed afloat before the sub fee + cash shop models, unless it was by actually making a good game and keeping people subbed with the addition of good content. If Trion has 400K subs (dont know but its what ive seen stated) they do not need to introduce this F2P crap into the game anymore than Blizz needed to introduce the Sparkle Pony into WOW. Greed and the realization by the devs that some people have no self control. If a P2P game cannot make it on its own merits then maybe it shouldnt survive. Look at STO. The absolute worst POS ive ever tried to play. Ever wonder how many stupid people are keeping that game alive by buying items that should be included in a game with a sub fee? But in the end, people usually get exactly what they deserve.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
it was funny to see how many people on the forums were going ape shit over Trions cash shop account "upgrade". ITS WRONG!! blah blah blah.
then i log into the game and EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! has the spider mount. so obviously no matter how much people bitch about it they still buy it which completely ruins the movement to stop cash shop items from coming again in the future.
good job dumbasses
it would be interesting to see how many who see it as the gimmick it is go ahead and buy it. Dumbasses is correct. I sometimes wonder how people manage their day to day finances, or maybe they just dont.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
quote "You cant just throw shops in anymore if you claimed you never were going to do it like Trion did." hmmm, seems to have worked for WoW when they said the exact same thing. Just sayin.
I could care less about mounts. I said I'd consider getting it because I like Trion and the things they do. Never once have I bought anything non cosmetic from a cash shop and am firmly against it. Also..........even if I did buy it would it really have been "handed" to me since I earned the real life money to get it. On that premise I could say that EVERYTHING in the game was "handed" to you due to the fact that your mommy still pays your net bill.
everyone has it, so pretty much anyone who did see it as a gimmick did buy it anyways. so now Trion has the reinforcement that they can pretty much charge you real money for any item and everyone will gobble it up. Trion is doing good in following Blizzard's foot steps.
Trion is a business and are out to make money. Good luck to them! Also who cares..it cost me £5.
£5 is not alot of money for someone who works and if your not working well then get off ur ass and get a job or...if your too young to work ask mummy and daddy.. If they cant afford £5 then they should of chosen a different career path.
Anyway off to enjoy my new mount and bank some items.. Cya soon.
(Edit. If your unable to work due to ilness or incapacitated then I'm sure your benefits are enough to treat yourself to a new mount etc. So enjoy)
Yes it seems they are testing the waters, considering the spider mount could have been something one could get from the world event, like the raptor. I would say " i must be getting old" but ive got kids that think supporting a CS is insane too lol. Guess there is nothing to be done other than keep on eye on things and when it gets too bad (and it will get worse) move on.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
Also, WoW first started doing those cash "special event" deals, those items were sold ONCE then gone. Half of the things WoW had years ago you can't buy in their cash shop which gives those players exclusivity and will likely mean they aren't so easy to ditch their toons.
If Rift gives everyone a spider mount (which they just did) players don't feel special or connected because if they unsub and come back in six months, they can buy whatever items they missed. That was the secret to WoW's sales early; if you missed the sale when it was out.. you missed it for good. Rift on the other hand still has the original "CE" for sale.
Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game" afaik. Rift said that from what the fans say. That's a hard thing to walk back from because if you are claiming the game is doing great and the only competition WoW had in years, then why are you selling things on the side for cash if there's no emergency?
Also, Blizzard didn't disguise it. It was outright fluff items and mounts for sale, not ninja "CE" items draped over by a Canadian maple leaf.
"TO MICHAEL!"
LOL. Nope, $10 isnt a lot of money but im not going to give it to a game company for something that until a few years ago would have been included in the game. Im sure Trion appreciates you business.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
The only issue I have is that Trion went out of its way to say Rift will not have a cash shop and then implemented one after all. Yes, they probably need the money at this point, but be honest about it. Dont try to pawn it off as not being a cash shop. Just say something along the lines of 'our goal is to continue providing you timely updates and stellar service and we felt our current earning did not support what we want to do'.
This is the exact stuff that SoE or Blizzard would do and why a lot of people hate those companies (especially SoE). So it is kind of a big deal because its developer dishonesty.
I have no problems with the cash shop though. Just be honest.
Its extremely offensive what you posted. Because people like us do not like supporting companies that trick fuck their playerbase with cash shop items disguised as account upgrades doesnt mean we are teenagers or unemployed losers.
I work, go to school full time, take care of my girlfriend,mother, pets, pay my bills on time, and all the other shit we do as grown ups in our society and i do have money to spend on a pos spider/banker account "upgrade". But i will never give into the greed disguised as improving their game/community.
what Trion is doing is wrong and if you wanna buy into their bullshit then go ahead. just keep your petty assumptions about the rest of us to yourself.
Quote "Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game."
Quote by Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008):
"We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later."
Maybe you should do your homework before making certain allegations.
** edit **
Seriously people. This is how the entire world works. When I order cable, I can get basic cable, or basic cable and movie channels, which I cannot otherwise get unless I rent the DvDs. I can rent a 1 bedroom apartment, or for more money I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment. I can buy a base model car, or for more money I can get the deluxe model. And so on.
Would it be best to pay one price and get the whole thing? Well, yes. Nothing but 4 bedroom apartments and nothing but cable companies selling all the channels at a reasonable price would be great. That's not how the world works. Expecting it to not affect video games is naive.
Join 'Occupy Wall Street', or better yet, vote for people who actually reflect your wants instead of the corporate friendly Democrats or Republicans* and maybe one day things will be different.
* Technically, this requires that most everyone do it. It's not enough if just the people on these forums do it.
Not talking about cable we are talking about MMO's. There are only two reasons this is happening in the MMO genre. Greed, and peoples willingness to buy into it. Im not sure how MMO games stayed afloat before the sub fee + cash shop models, unless it was by actually making a good game and keeping people subbed with the addition of good content. If Trion has 400K subs (dont know but its what ive seen stated) they do not need to introduce this F2P crap into the game anymore than Blizz needed to introduce the Sparkle Pony into WOW. Greed and the realization by the devs that some people have no self control. If a P2P game cannot make it on its own merits then maybe it shouldnt survive. Look at STO. The absolute worst POS ive ever tried to play. Ever wonder how many stupid people are keeping that game alive by buying items that should be included in a game with a sub fee? But in the end, people usually get exactly what they deserve.
You are confusing "Things I Don't Like" with "Things That Are Morally Wrong". Trion is not stealing anything. Trion is not causing murder, nor are they causing any mayhem. They are not keeping other companies from competing in any way. They aren't keeping players from having mounts unless they spend more money. They are just offering a beginner level mount from the cash shop for money. In other words, they are offering a product under terms they believe are acceptable. Aside from a vocal minority, the players find those terms acceptable if the number of spider mounts running around are any indication.
Of course it is a way for Trion to make more money. I don't think anyone would argue that point. It's how people have been making more money for thousands of years. Even before there was money. "You can have a little cow for 10 chickens, but if you give me 20 chickens, you can have this really big cow that will not only give you milk, but pull your plow!"
Again, it is naive to think that this isn't going to be prevalent in all games eventually. You just have to decide which games offer what you want under terms you find acceptable. If the terms are not acceptable, take your money elsewhere. If you're tired of corporate greed, vote for people who are also tired of corporate greed. It may not change much, but you will have at least done more than complain anonymously on an internet message board.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yeah, but you have to understand that by the time Wow added their cash shops, players were already heavily invested for years with friends, guilds, character advancement, etc. They weren't going to split because a cash shop was put in. Some did, most stayed beause it simply was the best game out by far (up for debate by many for different reasons).
Also, WoW first started doing those cash "special event" deals, those items were sold ONCE then gone. Half of the things WoW had years ago you can't buy in their cash shop which gives those players exclusivity and will likely mean they aren't so easy to ditch their toons.
If Rift gives everyone a spider mount (which they just did) players don't feel special or connected because if they unsub and come back in six months, they can buy whatever items they missed. That was the secret to WoW's sales early; if you missed the sale when it was out.. you missed it for good. Rift on the other hand still has the original "CE" for sale.
Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game" afaik. Rift said that from what the fans say. That's a hard thing to walk back from because if you are claiming the game is doing great and the only competition WoW had in years, then why are you selling things on the side for cash if there's no emergency?
Also, Blizzard didn't disguise it. It was outright fluff items and mounts for sale, not ninja "CE" items draped over by a Canadian maple leaf.
Quote "Plus, Blizzard never said "we'll never put a cash shop in our game."
Quote by Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008):
"We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later."
Maybe you should do your homework before making certain allegations.
See the red part above?
AFAIK means= As Far As I Know in internet speak.
"TO MICHAEL!"
The irony was by 2008 Blizzard had already entered the grey area of MT with their TCG, which to me is worse because it had people spending money in hopes of getting in game loot.. just because a very small amount of people actually play the game doesnt hide its intention.
Telling players one thing, then doing the exact opposite while trying to spin it that you are not *is* morally wrong. Its not a severe offense, but it is a bait and switch forpeople that signed on partially because of the promised no cash shop.
Yes its the way all games are going to be. I have no doubt after BW sets the hook in TOR they will implement RMT as well. Nobody is saying its not happening. But I bought the box and pay a sub so im entitled to bitch about it at every opportunity. Problem is , most gamers today are blind. A lot of us seen it coming and were laughed at because "its only fluff and doesnt effect me". Well, now Blizz has legalized gold selling with cards and a CS pet. The only good thing I can find in this wholel mess will be listening to the "its only fluff" folks scream when the devs shove it in a little deeper than they had thought they would.
Really? This game sucks and Im not having fun? Im going to unsub right now. Thanks for the tip.
NA/Euro companies have to realizer that what works with an asian audience might not work with us and vice-versa. NA/EU audiences are very very careful about cash shops.
Another case in point; the Eve monocle debacle that caused thousands of unsubs.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins