Also- The excuse that "These 3 factions don't like each other but know that they need to work together...." is lame.
That is just an easy way out of the situation.
Reminds me of Warhammer Online and the excuses they gave for the factions being allied into a side versus side type thing.
In that video basically they talk about the equivalent to battlegrounds (El Dorado and Stonhenge) and also talk about "persistent war zones" where you fight for taking and keeping control points, doesn't say anywhere that you'll be able to PvP in every zone.
The way I understand it is that there will be BGs and some areas across the world where you have massive PvP with objectives, but not open PvP everywhere.
Open world PvP will never work in a high budget MMO. Stop wishing for it. Majority isin't interested in it. Whenever a company tried to implement it, the whole thing turned into a gank-fest with no reasoning behind it.
To have a working PvP environment You need a game that is built around this idea, like EVE-O is. You need to have background and mechanics in place that both, reward organized open world PvP but also somewhat punish mindless ganking of low level players that may not always wish for it. You need to have some system of control, be it territory control, town governship or something along the lines that makes it worth the time spent organizing a group.
Why would any big company spend resources on that when only a small part of playerbase will use it? When you make a high profile game You make it for the majority, not for small, vocal groups that get hyped for every game only to them frown when they realize it isin't their "old school, hardcore, independent MMO".
No company even promises it these days, that's simply not the market focus.
Sure i'd love to see a polished, full blown MMO that has amazing open world PvP system in it, but i also know that, at least currently, it won't happen. The consumers decided. They want instanced, avalible for solo-play, instant gratification form of PvP where they can hop in and out of it, whenever they please, not whenever the ganker in the bushes feels like.
Originally posted by Zylaxx Originally posted by SwampRob
Originally posted by afhn2110
I even asked about the opportunity for a pvp server where the factions could fight one another and he said it wouldn't even be considored because it doesn't fit the game.
Whatever your stance on PvP is, I respect developers who don't cave in but stick to their vision. Agree.
Besides World PvP is stupid and the people who do it are even more stupid IMO, its not even playing the game the way its meant to be played. With that being said I think TSW can be a great PvP game now that they got rid of the stupid idea of ganking, becasue lets face it that is what 99% of what World PvP is about.
I will agree it is nice to see them stick to their vision. If thats not what they invision and how they made to game to work then don't put it in bc doing so will almost ensure that it will be poorly done.
However, a comment on world pvp... Do you think when people do battle (I know games aren't RL) they call each other up and say hey meet me at this area at this time to have a fight or war (not since 7th grade fights)... There hasn't been a whole lot of real meaning to world pvp but that doesn't mean there haven't been some great battles that happened just bc people were allowed to attack opposing factions in the open world. Its also the reason they started creating PVP/PVE servers so those who enjoyed it could partake in it and those who didn't could go to a PVE server.
I think it's too early to be disappointed, there might not be any world pvp but an alternative similar to GW2 WvWvW (not exactly the same, but the same basics e.g. big place, objectives, a lot of players, perks for your faction etc.). I'm a big world pvp fan but what GW2 provides as an alternative is good enough for me. If I see something similar in TSW then I'm all set.
Confirms my suspicions that the game's intended target groups are the more fashion and social life conscious amongst us who indeed would spend a little cash in a clothing store occasionaly to endulge themselves in toying with their character's looks.
Like GW2 then, where everyone in the open world will be your buddy. V_V
Pretty sad state of affairs that both big upcoming titles flaunting a three faction system shy away from open world pvp, without even catering for those who love it with a specific ruleset so those that abhor it can still have their merry way on pve servers.
LOL like GW2 then LOL. I cant stop laughing LOL.
Huh brah, ever actually read things before you psot nonsense or what? Ever hear of this feature in GW2 called WvWvW? Pretty sure GW2 will be the next greatest PvP game, because their PvP isnt an after thought like it is in SWToR.
And if you think just becasue GW2 doesnt have traditional 'gank' fest PvP then let me point you to some thing called DAoC which actually has the exact same PvP as GW2, and I am pretty sure if you took a pole on any MMO and asked which MMO was the best for PvP, you'd get DAoC as the overwhelming favorite.
I don't think Open World PVP means what you think it does, because GW2 doesn't have it. WvWvW is not Open World PvP.
Confirms my suspicions that the game's intended target groups are the more fashion and social life conscious amongst us who indeed would spend a little cash in a clothing store occasionaly to endulge themselves in toying with their character's looks.
Like GW2 then, where everyone in the open world will be your buddy. V_V
Pretty sad state of affairs that both big upcoming titles flaunting a three faction system shy away from open world pvp, without even catering for those who love it with a specific ruleset so those that abhor it can still have their merry way on pve servers.
LOL like GW2 then LOL. I cant stop laughing LOL.
Huh brah, ever actually read things before you psot nonsense or what? Ever hear of this feature in GW2 called WvWvW? Pretty sure GW2 will be the next greatest PvP game, because their PvP isnt an after thought like it is in SWToR.
And if you think just becasue GW2 doesnt have traditional 'gank' fest PvP then let me point you to some thing called DAoC which actually has the exact same PvP as GW2, and I am pretty sure if you took a pole on any MMO and asked which MMO was the best for PvP, you'd get DAoC as the overwhelming favorite.
WvWvW is not the same as open world pvp. It's essentially a large battleground which lasts for two weeks each match.
Out .... in .... the .... open .... game .... world .... there ... will ... be ... no ... pvp. Hence, the similarity between GW2 and TSW: three factions, no open world pvp.
You may want to stop laughing now.
Ohh I get it you mean open world PvP like in WoW or Rift or any other themepark MMO? The one that like less then 1% of the population revels in? The Open World PvP that has no bearing on the outcome of any thing pertinent to whats going on with a faction system.? The same Open world PvP that rewards ganking lowbies and punishes players who are jsut trying to play the game?
Open world PvP does not, has never, and will not work in any game what so ever, on the other hand FFA PvP can and does but it is a Niche market at best.
I am not advocating the removal of PvP, I am advocating the removal of soemthing that doesnt work and soemthing that so few partake of that is in consenquential to anything a developer is trying to do. AGAIN I ask, take a poll of what is the best PvP game EVAR? DAoC will overwhelmingly be the frontrunner, and yet that game had ZERO world PvP. RvR or Frontier PvP, or what ever you want to cal lit is the best and ONLY way to highlight PvP as a core ruleselt for the majority, so why spoil the rest of your game with archaic and idiotic nonsense that such a small percentage of the playerbase want to partake in?
Ah I see, when proven wrong you change your stance to marginalize people having another preference ... swell.
Confirms my suspicions that the game's intended target groups are the more fashion and social life conscious amongst us who indeed would spend a little cash in a clothing store occasionaly to endulge themselves in toying with their character's looks.
Like GW2 then, where everyone in the open world will be your buddy. V_V
Pretty sad state of affairs that both big upcoming titles flaunting a three faction system shy away from open world pvp, without even catering for those who love it with a specific ruleset so those that abhor it can still have their merry way on pve servers.
LOL like GW2 then LOL. I cant stop laughing LOL.
Huh brah, ever actually read things before you psot nonsense or what? Ever hear of this feature in GW2 called WvWvW? Pretty sure GW2 will be the next greatest PvP game, because their PvP isnt an after thought like it is in SWToR.
And if you think just becasue GW2 doesnt have traditional 'gank' fest PvP then let me point you to some thing called DAoC which actually has the exact same PvP as GW2, and I am pretty sure if you took a pole on any MMO and asked which MMO was the best for PvP, you'd get DAoC as the overwhelming favorite.
WvWvW is not the same as open world pvp. It's essentially a large battleground which lasts for two weeks each match.
Out .... in .... the .... open .... game .... world .... there ... will ... be ... no ... pvp. Hence, the similarity between GW2 and TSW: three factions, no open world pvp.
You may want to stop laughing now.
Ohh I get it you mean open world PvP like in WoW or Rift or any other themepark MMO? The one that like less then 1% of the population revels in? The Open World PvP that has no bearing on the outcome of any thing pertinent to whats going on with a faction system.? The same Open world PvP that rewards ganking lowbies and punishes players who are jsut trying to play the game?
Open world PvP does not, has never, and will not work in any game what so ever, on the other hand FFA PvP can and does but it is a Niche market at best.
I am not advocating the removal of PvP, I am advocating the removal of soemthing that doesnt work and soemthing that so few partake of that is in consenquential to anything a developer is trying to do. AGAIN I ask, take a poll of what is the best PvP game EVAR? DAoC will overwhelmingly be the frontrunner, and yet that game had ZERO world PvP. RvR or Frontier PvP, or what ever you want to cal lit is the best and ONLY way to highlight PvP as a core ruleselt for the majority, so why spoil the rest of your game with archaic and idiotic nonsense that such a small percentage of the playerbase want to partake in?
Do you understand the concept of world PvP? You just argued with yourself in that rant. Usually you're supposed to take one side, not both, in an argument.
Open world, faction based PvP with meaning. This is the topic. DAoC and Warhammer Online did both of these as well as anyone, so we should point to these titles when looking for ideas to draw from. Both had OPEN WORLD combat with territory control, with resource control in the form of dungeons, quests, and faction wide buffs. Both were accessible through the game world, without need of instant travel, unless you were an opposing faction in DAoC. Once there, the battle never stops. There is actual meaning, rewards AND consquences for any outcome on these battlefields. They were NOT instanced. This is what we are talking about. And yes, there is a reason that it DOES work since you obviously argue with yourself and point out the fact that most people who have played DAoC still to this day say that it has the best PvP in the history of MMO's. You label it RvR or Frontier PvP, fact is, they are the same as Open World PvP. Whether it's 1v1 in newbie zones, or 100 v 100 in territory control zones, it is still Open World PvP with meaning.
We are not talking about being able to kill the faction commander with nothing to show for it, like WoW. I get the feeling that you just like typing worlds, not necessarily making sense.
Ohh I get it you mean open world PvP like in WoW or Rift or any other themepark MMO? The one that like less then 1% of the population revels in? The Open World PvP that has no bearing on the outcome of any thing pertinent to whats going on with a faction system.? The same Open world PvP that rewards ganking lowbies and punishes players who are jsut trying to play the game?
Open world PvP does not, has never, and will not work in any game what so ever, on the other hand FFA PvP can and does but it is a Niche market at best.
I am not advocating the removal of PvP, I am advocating the removal of soemthing that doesnt work and soemthing that so few partake of that is in consenquential to anything a developer is trying to do. AGAIN I ask, take a poll of what is the best PvP game EVAR? DAoC will overwhelmingly be the frontrunner, and yet that game had ZERO world PvP. RvR or Frontier PvP, or what ever you want to cal lit is the best and ONLY way to highlight PvP as a core ruleselt for the majority, so why spoil the rest of your game with archaic and idiotic nonsense that such a small percentage of the playerbase want to partake in?
Lol wut?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
As long as the pvp does something meaningful in the grand scheme of things that's fine. I knew the game wasn't a "pvp" game per se, but WoW's version of pvp is more like... sports.... not really that meaningful. I mean lots of people love sports, and TSW will have those, but the 100 + man fighting creates a whole new strategic element that's missing in most mmos over the past 5-7 years.
For me personally this is the first good news on this game after a long time - the less so called PvPers there the less whining and QQ. Seems that FC is on the right track this time.
I'm kinda in agreement with you. I still won't pre-order it, and will wait a month or so after launch before deciding whether to play it (Funcom, after all), but at least this is a something positive, IMO. I'm not against PvP, or PvPers, but I'm not a big fan of open world or FFA PvP. It's frustrating beyond belief. Still have some serious reservations about this game, but this is a step in the right direction.
Seems to be too much confusion about what "open world PvP" means for this thread to make much sense.
So far, the closest any game's come to DAOC in terms of open world faction PvP was Aion, but Aion's a distant second. I'd hoped TSW might fall somewhere in between the two, but now, guess all that's left for that will be GW2. None of these are PvP gankfests like some of you seem to be going on about, though.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Sorry you're heartbroken but I'm thrilled. I hate open world PvP. I might still be playing Aion except for the annoyance of getting ganked by a toon 20 levels above me while questing. No fun imo.
Theres no levels in this game ;D
You wil simply get gank by players with more 'skill' than you.
While there will be no traditional levels, there will be a progression of skills and powers. And Aion was just an example of why I don't like open world PvP, not a feature by feature comparison to TSW.
It doesn't change the fact that there would still be that significant gap if not by levels then by Skills. Unless they created some balance or fairness in Open World Pvp.
If you suck at playing, go QQ somewhere else. Suck it up or gtfo basically. A game company shouldn't balance a game so much that skill doesn't matter at all when it comes to the game play. Who in the hell would ever want to play a game like that?
To me it looks like this. "Omg look at me, I can rape the face off of everyone now, because I cried to the game devs to make me op because I'm too shitty and unskilled to do it myself I have to have my hand held like a 4 year old."
Tired of people whining because some people are better then others, it's life get over it.
Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by DarkPony
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by DarkPony
Sure but it's not so simple to just write off a game for any personal future interest like that. "Oh, it can has no world pvp? Very well, I'll be on my way then." *Trots off humming merry tune* That isn't the way it works for me. There shall be bitching and moaning about hefty decisions that impact my personal preferences so much. Same with their box + sub + cashshop business model which I find disgraceful. ... Twice now they have invoked the Pony's wrath! *stomps hoof* I understand the disappointment you're feeling over this, I feel it as well. TSW was definitely on my radar, it still will be for the stories and such. I just won't be looking to make it a long term home. While I agree that it probably is best to fit in as many demographics as possible, that doesn't mean all features will work from game to game. If there's a story reason for no open world FFA PVP or faction PVP like that, it makes sense that it's not there IMO. Agreed. But the really awkward bit about that is that all the story we've had so far as well as their hyping people up with that "Which faction will you choose?" campaign, is actually suggesting that those factions could actually drink eachother's blood ... rather than hold eachother's hands in the open world. *brace for rethorical question* Is all that just marketing fluff then? Probably this is funcom haha, so we can assume they're trying to sell something that isn't exactly representative of the reality. Before anyone jumps on me, I've never donned a fail/com avatar. I've been a fan of their games, I just realize their marketing isn't always exactly honest. I just hope the PVP that is there (zones) is intense and not just PVP in a can.
Anyone who's bothered looking at the actual features, instead of the marketing blurbs would have realized there wouldn't be open world pvp. I don't get the idea that someone has been 'following' the game, and is now suddenly not interested because of a game mechanic that was never expected in the first place.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
So, why does every gankfester think that every MMO ever published needs to have OPEN world pvp? Some games have it, some games don't. Personally, my game-style doesn't support open world PVP so I don't play games or on servers that offer it and I've never complained. Many games that went the way of supporting griefers I stopped playing...cough...Aion...and yes, OPEN world PVP means gankers and griefers. I understand that the OP would NEVER participate in activities which ruin gameplay for another player...but many will, many can, and many do.
I've never logged into Darkfall or the COUNTLESS games that ONLY offer PVP as their gameplay.
Is it possible to leave ONE game on the market that doesn't cater to gamers who scream and cry the loudest?
PVP servers & PVE servers; a solution that has been working wonders in catering for both kind of players for over a decade.
Which is why Anet's and now Funcom's decision to go with a single ruleset pisses me off so much.
Don't deny those who love world pvp their fun, I am not denying you your fun (on pve servers) either.
While its great to be more intelligent than most others on the MMORPG forums, dont you feel like our explanations fall to deaf ears? I see exactly what your saying Pony, they did Open World PvP right (after some balance changes) in DaOC years ago yet they still go for the newer demographics (and fail at even that since they wont even make pve and pvp servers....). Dont get me wrong, W v W v W will be interesting but after playing games like WAR (to those who havent played recently, the RvR is 100% win) or DoAC it just feels like a huge weekly BG (wintergrasp anyone?).
As far as the pvetards that complain about being "ganked". When i refer to open world RvR as most people, i mean keeps/fortresses, battle objectives, resources, relics and server faction wide buffs = a REASON and MEANING in doing PvP on a massive scale. I like WAR for their RvR lakes, specially after the changes they made to world pvp the game is actually quite fun but like most mmos of today; it was too late. The going problem is DaOC is just too old to keep a enough players playing and WAR just is living off of life support (almost a year and all we've seen is 20 more RvR ranks and some more sets along with a host balance and RvR system changes that actaully made world pvp fun). Seems that SWTOR gets the prize, for doing it right i suppose.
TLDR: Finding out that GW2 only features PvE servers was a major downer for me, i was hope for a similar system in the open world as the mists since the game has the ability to do so (creating so much more competition much like Lineage 2 since there is no race vs race but a more massive GvG experience) but nonetheless ill be playing it. As far as SWTOR; as far as the PvE goes i enjoy the questing and its a nice change of pace from your quest grind ala wow. Im not very moved by group story since it feels.......out of place. Ill enjoy the questing and personal story while open world PVP my ass off with my lesbian evil bounty hunter >:3.
All in all other seek Open World PvP because its immersive and not scripted, and since in the last few years it seems developers cant realize that 10% of a games popualtion actually raids and still creates the cookie cutter formula. Yet SWTOR managed to sweeten the deal with personal relationships/vanity and story with the big hitter "Open World PVP".
Sorry you're heartbroken but I'm thrilled. I hate open world PvP. I might still be playing Aion except for the annoyance of getting ganked by a toon 20 levels above me while questing. No fun imo.
Theres no levels in this game ;D
You wil simply get gank by players with more 'skill' than you.
While there will be no traditional levels, there will be a progression of skills and powers. And Aion was just an example of why I don't like open world PvP, not a feature by feature comparison to TSW.
It doesn't change the fact that there would still be that significant gap if not by levels then by Skills. Unless they created some balance or fairness in Open World Pvp.
If you suck at playing, go QQ somewhere else. Suck it up or gtfo basically. A game company shouldn't balance a game so much that skill doesn't matter at all when it comes to the game play. Who in the hell would ever want to play a game like that?
To me it looks like this. "Omg look at me, I can rape the face off of everyone now, because I cried to the game devs to make me op because I'm too shitty and unskilled to do it myself I have to have my hand held like a 4 year old."
Tired of people whining because some people are better then others, it's life get over it.
So one person with only 5 skills vs someone with possibly15-20 skills availible to them?
A significant advantage that doesn't take any fucking SKILL or has anything to do with anyone being a bad player.
Sorry you're heartbroken but I'm thrilled. I hate open world PvP. I might still be playing Aion except for the annoyance of getting ganked by a toon 20 levels above me while questing. No fun imo.
I never undertood that either.
Couple weeks ago I was being camped by 4 very high level players who repeatedly kept killing.
Sorry you're heartbroken but I'm thrilled. I hate open world PvP. I might still be playing Aion except for the annoyance of getting ganked by a toon 20 levels above me while questing. No fun imo.
I never undertood that either.
Couple weeks ago I was being camped by 4 very high level players who repeatedly kept killing.
What is the lesson in that?
cry me a river
I think this sentiment perfectly reinforces his point, this sounds like something a bully would say to the kid he just stole lunch money from.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So just like SW:TOR, TSW will also be a CORPG, falsely labeled as a massively-multiplayer online game, unless ones definition of MMO is 100's of players cooperating and competing in text-writing/chatting within a general chat-box simultaneoulsy.
Shows you know very little about Swtor.
Which will in fact offer pvp servers with open world pvp as well as objective based world pvp with territorial control on all kinds of servers. (and also a means to get your pvp gear just through world pvp if you dislike instanced pvp).
TSW is much more shaping up like GW2: Three factions yet no pvp in the open game world, to name two smashing similarities.
Ooohhhh -- sorry. I wasn't thinking of shallow third-person shooter meaningless pvp. Different standards and interpretation of pvp I guess. And yea...talk is cheap, with Bioware. Launch? Hmmm....probably not.
So just like SW:TOR, TSW will also be a CORPG, falsely labeled as a massively-multiplayer online game, unless ones definition of MMO is 100's of players cooperating and competing in text-writing/chatting within a general chat-box simultaneoulsy.
Shows you know very little about Swtor.
Which will in fact offer pvp servers with open world pvp as well as objective based world pvp with territorial control on all kinds of servers. (and also a means to get your pvp gear just through world pvp if you dislike instanced pvp).
TSW is much more shaping up like GW2: Three factions yet no pvp in the open game world, to name two smashing similarities.
Ooohhhh -- sorry. I wasn't thinking of shallow third-person shooter meaningless pvp. Different standards and interpretation of pvp I guess. And yea...talk is cheap, with Bioware. Launch? Hmmm....probably not.
What PVP isn't "meaningless"? We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So just like SW:TOR, TSW will also be a CORPG, falsely labeled as a massively-multiplayer online game, unless ones definition of MMO is 100's of players cooperating and competing in text-writing/chatting within a general chat-box simultaneoulsy.
Shows you know very little about Swtor.
Which will in fact offer pvp servers with open world pvp as well as objective based world pvp with territorial control on all kinds of servers. (and also a means to get your pvp gear just through world pvp if you dislike instanced pvp).
TSW is much more shaping up like GW2: Three factions yet no pvp in the open game world, to name two smashing similarities.
Ooohhhh -- sorry. I wasn't thinking of shallow third-person shooter meaningless pvp. Different standards and interpretation of pvp I guess. And yea...talk is cheap, with Bioware. Launch? Hmmm....probably not.
What PVP isn't "meaningless"? We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.
I understand. Some have varying expectations, even if it is in the most narrowly redundant combative sense. That's cool.
That's good. Open world pvp is only about ganking anyway. For people who sit cackling at the computer, while they kill players who can't even scratch them no matter how good they are.
I like PvP, but not in MMORPGs, where it just boils down to "who spent most at the cash shop" and "who spent most time mindlessly grinding for equipment". Skill? Pfff....
So one person with only 5 skills vs someone with possibly15-20 skills availible to them?
A significant advantage that doesn't take any fucking SKILL or has anything to do with anyone being a bad player.
How are those games working out though?
Those games?
They worked fine (usually a 5 skill person wouldn't be near a 15 skill person as you say...and a 15 skill person would get penalties for that type of thing). They're just old now (L2/SB/DAOC/UO/even SWGPCU had open pvp that worked).
When I played AION it was fine also, but that was in the first monthish (and it was only 2 player factions...bad news already). I stopped playing AION because it was too QUESTY.
Darkfall may actually work after the "relaunch" as they basically changed everything lol....but the only companies that are making games like this any more are indie and not tripA devs, so they end up missing a few things that could break the game...and often end up breaking the game. DF didn't really have an open beta because you had to pay for it.
Arguably PvP server AoC/WoW etc. work fine as well, but PvP in those aren't quite that meaningful as L2 etc. were. I guess AION as well. That's the main problem. PvP isn't really making any sense in new mmos. TSW is not a PvP mmo, but they're making it make sense.... that's the important point.
THE MINORITY OF PVP OPEN WORLD PLAYERS ARE THE GANKERS....YOU CAN MAKE THESE GAMES DETER THAT KIND OF STUFF AND MANY GAMES BEFORE WOW HAD THIS DONE AND WORKED WELL. Games after wow struggle.
What PVP isn't "meaningless"? We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.
I understand. Some have varying expectations, even if it is in the most narrowly redundant combative sense. That's cool.
I understand some can't answer a direct question and tend to bite back with redundant points. Anyway what PVP is meaningful, it must exist if another form of PVP is meaningless?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
In that video basically they talk about the equivalent to battlegrounds (El Dorado and Stonhenge) and also talk about "persistent war zones" where you fight for taking and keeping control points, doesn't say anywhere that you'll be able to PvP in every zone.
The way I understand it is that there will be BGs and some areas across the world where you have massive PvP with objectives, but not open PvP everywhere.
What can men do against such reckless hate?
Open world PvP will never work in a high budget MMO. Stop wishing for it. Majority isin't interested in it. Whenever a company tried to implement it, the whole thing turned into a gank-fest with no reasoning behind it.
To have a working PvP environment You need a game that is built around this idea, like EVE-O is. You need to have background and mechanics in place that both, reward organized open world PvP but also somewhat punish mindless ganking of low level players that may not always wish for it. You need to have some system of control, be it territory control, town governship or something along the lines that makes it worth the time spent organizing a group.
Why would any big company spend resources on that when only a small part of playerbase will use it? When you make a high profile game You make it for the majority, not for small, vocal groups that get hyped for every game only to them frown when they realize it isin't their "old school, hardcore, independent MMO".
No company even promises it these days, that's simply not the market focus.
Sure i'd love to see a polished, full blown MMO that has amazing open world PvP system in it, but i also know that, at least currently, it won't happen. The consumers decided. They want instanced, avalible for solo-play, instant gratification form of PvP where they can hop in and out of it, whenever they please, not whenever the ganker in the bushes feels like.
Agree.
Besides World PvP is stupid and the people who do it are even more stupid IMO, its not even playing the game the way its meant to be played. With that being said I think TSW can be a great PvP game now that they got rid of the stupid idea of ganking, becasue lets face it that is what 99% of what World PvP is about.
I will agree it is nice to see them stick to their vision. If thats not what they invision and how they made to game to work then don't put it in bc doing so will almost ensure that it will be poorly done.
However, a comment on world pvp... Do you think when people do battle (I know games aren't RL) they call each other up and say hey meet me at this area at this time to have a fight or war (not since 7th grade fights)... There hasn't been a whole lot of real meaning to world pvp but that doesn't mean there haven't been some great battles that happened just bc people were allowed to attack opposing factions in the open world. Its also the reason they started creating PVP/PVE servers so those who enjoyed it could partake in it and those who didn't could go to a PVE server.
I think it's too early to be disappointed, there might not be any world pvp but an alternative similar to GW2 WvWvW (not exactly the same, but the same basics e.g. big place, objectives, a lot of players, perks for your faction etc.). I'm a big world pvp fan but what GW2 provides as an alternative is good enough for me. If I see something similar in TSW then I'm all set.
I don't think Open World PVP means what you think it does, because GW2 doesn't have it. WvWvW is not Open World PvP.
Ah I see, when proven wrong you change your stance to marginalize people having another preference ... swell.
Also wrong by the way.
*points at WOW's pvp -pve server balance*
My brand new bloggity blog.
Do you understand the concept of world PvP? You just argued with yourself in that rant. Usually you're supposed to take one side, not both, in an argument.
Open world, faction based PvP with meaning. This is the topic. DAoC and Warhammer Online did both of these as well as anyone, so we should point to these titles when looking for ideas to draw from. Both had OPEN WORLD combat with territory control, with resource control in the form of dungeons, quests, and faction wide buffs. Both were accessible through the game world, without need of instant travel, unless you were an opposing faction in DAoC. Once there, the battle never stops. There is actual meaning, rewards AND consquences for any outcome on these battlefields. They were NOT instanced. This is what we are talking about. And yes, there is a reason that it DOES work since you obviously argue with yourself and point out the fact that most people who have played DAoC still to this day say that it has the best PvP in the history of MMO's. You label it RvR or Frontier PvP, fact is, they are the same as Open World PvP. Whether it's 1v1 in newbie zones, or 100 v 100 in territory control zones, it is still Open World PvP with meaning.
We are not talking about being able to kill the faction commander with nothing to show for it, like WoW. I get the feeling that you just like typing worlds, not necessarily making sense.
Lol wut?
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
As long as the pvp does something meaningful in the grand scheme of things that's fine. I knew the game wasn't a "pvp" game per se, but WoW's version of pvp is more like... sports.... not really that meaningful. I mean lots of people love sports, and TSW will have those, but the 100 + man fighting creates a whole new strategic element that's missing in most mmos over the past 5-7 years.
I'm kinda in agreement with you. I still won't pre-order it, and will wait a month or so after launch before deciding whether to play it (Funcom, after all), but at least this is a something positive, IMO. I'm not against PvP, or PvPers, but I'm not a big fan of open world or FFA PvP. It's frustrating beyond belief. Still have some serious reservations about this game, but this is a step in the right direction.
Seems to be too much confusion about what "open world PvP" means for this thread to make much sense.
So far, the closest any game's come to DAOC in terms of open world faction PvP was Aion, but Aion's a distant second. I'd hoped TSW might fall somewhere in between the two, but now, guess all that's left for that will be GW2. None of these are PvP gankfests like some of you seem to be going on about, though.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
If you suck at playing, go QQ somewhere else. Suck it up or gtfo basically. A game company shouldn't balance a game so much that skill doesn't matter at all when it comes to the game play. Who in the hell would ever want to play a game like that?
To me it looks like this. "Omg look at me, I can rape the face off of everyone now, because I cried to the game devs to make me op because I'm too shitty and unskilled to do it myself I have to have my hand held like a 4 year old."
Tired of people whining because some people are better then others, it's life get over it.
"Oh, it can has no world pvp? Very well, I'll be on my way then." *Trots off humming merry tune*
That isn't the way it works for me.
There shall be bitching and moaning about hefty decisions that impact my personal preferences so much. Same with their box + sub + cashshop business model which I find disgraceful.
... Twice now they have invoked the Pony's wrath! *stomps hoof*
I understand the disappointment you're feeling over this, I feel it as well. TSW was definitely on my radar, it still will be for the stories and such. I just won't be looking to make it a long term home.
While I agree that it probably is best to fit in as many demographics as possible, that doesn't mean all features will work from game to game. If there's a story reason for no open world FFA PVP or faction PVP like that, it makes sense that it's not there IMO.
Agreed. But the really awkward bit about that is that all the story we've had so far as well as their hyping people up with that "Which faction will you choose?" campaign, is actually suggesting that those factions could actually drink eachother's blood ... rather than hold eachother's hands in the open world.
*brace for rethorical question*
Is all that just marketing fluff then?
Probably this is funcom haha, so we can assume they're trying to sell something that isn't exactly representative of the reality. Before anyone jumps on me, I've never donned a fail/com avatar. I've been a fan of their games, I just realize their marketing isn't always exactly honest.
I just hope the PVP that is there (zones) is intense and not just PVP in a can.
Anyone who's bothered looking at the actual features, instead of the marketing blurbs would have realized there wouldn't be open world pvp. I don't get the idea that someone has been 'following' the game, and is now suddenly not interested because of a game mechanic that was never expected in the first place.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
While its great to be more intelligent than most others on the MMORPG forums, dont you feel like our explanations fall to deaf ears? I see exactly what your saying Pony, they did Open World PvP right (after some balance changes) in DaOC years ago yet they still go for the newer demographics (and fail at even that since they wont even make pve and pvp servers....). Dont get me wrong, W v W v W will be interesting but after playing games like WAR (to those who havent played recently, the RvR is 100% win) or DoAC it just feels like a huge weekly BG (wintergrasp anyone?).
As far as the pvetards that complain about being "ganked". When i refer to open world RvR as most people, i mean keeps/fortresses, battle objectives, resources, relics and server faction wide buffs = a REASON and MEANING in doing PvP on a massive scale. I like WAR for their RvR lakes, specially after the changes they made to world pvp the game is actually quite fun but like most mmos of today; it was too late. The going problem is DaOC is just too old to keep a enough players playing and WAR just is living off of life support (almost a year and all we've seen is 20 more RvR ranks and some more sets along with a host balance and RvR system changes that actaully made world pvp fun). Seems that SWTOR gets the prize, for doing it right i suppose.
TLDR: Finding out that GW2 only features PvE servers was a major downer for me, i was hope for a similar system in the open world as the mists since the game has the ability to do so (creating so much more competition much like Lineage 2 since there is no race vs race but a more massive GvG experience) but nonetheless ill be playing it. As far as SWTOR; as far as the PvE goes i enjoy the questing and its a nice change of pace from your quest grind ala wow. Im not very moved by group story since it feels.......out of place. Ill enjoy the questing and personal story while open world PVP my ass off with my lesbian evil bounty hunter >:3.
All in all other seek Open World PvP because its immersive and not scripted, and since in the last few years it seems developers cant realize that 10% of a games popualtion actually raids and still creates the cookie cutter formula. Yet SWTOR managed to sweeten the deal with personal relationships/vanity and story with the big hitter "Open World PVP".
Did some research and have run into some conflicts in that the 3 factions actually fight in three way open pvp for control of world control points.
Now Im a bit confused.
So one person with only 5 skills vs someone with possibly15-20 skills availible to them?
A significant advantage that doesn't take any fucking SKILL or has anything to do with anyone being a bad player.
How are those games working out though?
cry me a river
I think this sentiment perfectly reinforces his point, this sounds like something a bully would say to the kid he just stole lunch money from.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ooohhhh -- sorry. I wasn't thinking of shallow third-person shooter meaningless pvp. Different standards and interpretation of pvp I guess. And yea...talk is cheap, with Bioware. Launch? Hmmm....probably not.
What PVP isn't "meaningless"? We're playing video games here, it's about having fun.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I understand. Some have varying expectations, even if it is in the most narrowly redundant combative sense. That's cool.
That's good. Open world pvp is only about ganking anyway. For people who sit cackling at the computer, while they kill players who can't even scratch them no matter how good they are.
I like PvP, but not in MMORPGs, where it just boils down to "who spent most at the cash shop" and "who spent most time mindlessly grinding for equipment". Skill? Pfff....
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Those games?
They worked fine (usually a 5 skill person wouldn't be near a 15 skill person as you say...and a 15 skill person would get penalties for that type of thing). They're just old now (L2/SB/DAOC/UO/even SWGPCU had open pvp that worked).
When I played AION it was fine also, but that was in the first monthish (and it was only 2 player factions...bad news already). I stopped playing AION because it was too QUESTY.
Darkfall may actually work after the "relaunch" as they basically changed everything lol....but the only companies that are making games like this any more are indie and not tripA devs, so they end up missing a few things that could break the game...and often end up breaking the game. DF didn't really have an open beta because you had to pay for it.
Arguably PvP server AoC/WoW etc. work fine as well, but PvP in those aren't quite that meaningful as L2 etc. were. I guess AION as well. That's the main problem. PvP isn't really making any sense in new mmos. TSW is not a PvP mmo, but they're making it make sense.... that's the important point.
THE MINORITY OF PVP OPEN WORLD PLAYERS ARE THE GANKERS....YOU CAN MAKE THESE GAMES DETER THAT KIND OF STUFF AND MANY GAMES BEFORE WOW HAD THIS DONE AND WORKED WELL. Games after wow struggle.
I understand some can't answer a direct question and tend to bite back with redundant points. Anyway what PVP is meaningful, it must exist if another form of PVP is meaningless?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson