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Raids ruined RIFT for me
I have played Rift since release and was having a blast doing 5 man content , when the LFG system came out even tho it was a bit dodgy and some groups were just bad I made it work for me .
However eventually I had farmed every single item possible and basically done the 5 dungeons to death.
It was time to move onto 10 - 20 man content .
To do this I had to join a raiding guild, most guilds already had there "CORE" raiders so I ended up sitting on sidelines in any guild I joined or maybe got into a raid if someone was sick etc , I moved from guild to guild looking for one which needed me to tank for them with my warrior .. in the end I gave up and re rolled a cleric .
Eventually I found I had farmed all the T2 5 man content with my cleric and back to same problem .. but lucky for me I found a guild which had room for 1 cleric healer . After a month the guild disbanded and I was back to looking for a guild again.
The problem is most guilds raid at set times , working odd times means I sometimes missed raids which meant I was not reliable to be a raider . However I have more free time to play than most raiders but just not "set" times.
So in the end my subscription came up for renewal . I had the choice .. spend another month or 2 looking for a guild , or quit .
I decided to quit.
So in my experiance, raiding is what kileld the game for me .
Comments
The raids did not ruin anything it seems that the players did, and Trion isn't really responsible for the compatability between the playerbase. If you cannot find a guild it is either your fault for not being able to raid at their times, or their fault for being too demanding. Either way i suppose, depends how you want to look at it.
P.S. if you cannot get on at any set raid times than raiding more than likely is not for you
Raiding isn't what killed anything for you. Your job is what killed not being able to raid.
Try making a guild that raids end-game content at random times and not set times and see how successful that goes. Just try it. Then come back here.
Whats the point of this post? Just a QQ post? Are you defaming Rift for its raids? What? I'm not seeing an actual point to this post.
Raiding NEEDS to be on a set schedule, in part because of reset timer, in part because raids are hard(should be anyway), so you need the general same people to be working together to learn how to actually raid with each other to get the harder bosses down. To raid at random times is...very very unreliable and unstable. One moment you might have 20 people on and ready to go, thev ery next 10 could log off to go watch a game or w/e. A set schedule lets people know and prospective new guild members know what time period to set aside to raid.
Sounds like you should have either looked to join an EU-based guild or even a Asian-based guild if you live in America and vise versa otherwise. There's thousands of guilds, all it takes is finding the one that has raiding times that fit your schedule. If you're schedule is truly random on a week-to-week basis, then that is not the Rift's fault, its not the guilds fault. Its not really even your fault, its just how it is and you're stuck with it.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Ive never been able to dedicate a consistent block of time to raiding. Not the games fault just my life choice.
Same thing happened to me. Raiding is my passion. My warrior was one of the guild maintanks and I loved raiding...when we could get enough people to actually log on at the same time. After my guildmates set their sights on SWTOR they kinda gave up on Rift and logged in less and less. So that left a t2/3 geared MT looking for guild. Unfortunately, the only guilds in need of main tanks were lacking any progression and wiping on Duke for a month isn't exactly what I consider fun time. Rift was a good experience, but with no quality guild needing my tanking services I moved on as well.
Wouldve been nice to know that after I got to end game I needed to quit my shift work job to play this game .
Anyways to fix my problem they could make more 5 man content since they seem pretty easy to get going .
The master mode dungeons was a step in the right direction but too little too late to get my money.
Maybe I need to quit raiding in these sort of games and just PvP for gears ?
I'm in the same situation, my job calls me at different times each week so raiding is impossible for me, so i just stick to pvp; It is a lot of fun and i can pick it up and stop whenever i need to. My advice is to just find some nice single player games or pvp if your schedule wont allow you to raid.
So what you should have done is posted this a month ago before you left and I would have told you to come to Wolfsbane and I would pick you up!!
Raiding is one of those things that is there, but someone explained that the game is called Rift and not Raid, so each patch and 1.6 really is about getting great gear through Rifts. The best I can say is try and be productive on your exit survey.
You quit because you couldn't find a proper longterm guild, which is a problem in EVERY reputation grindy, dungeon grindy, raid grindy game ever made. This isn't something that is unique to Rift and chances are you'll run into this again elsewhere in your next mmos as well.
If you're going to play a raid heavy game like Rift, this is the price.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yep this isn't a new problem at all. This ruined many games in the past. This is why automatic Group Finding Systems need to be made for PvE and PvP at Endgame. Warhammer Online and RIFT sadly was the only games to do this correctly but forgot to include their amazing group finding systems for Raids, Dungeons (In WAR), and PvP as well. Sure, the randomness of PvP queues are great, but it would be nice to be able to queue for an organized group as well and be placed against only other organized teams.
Guild Wars was one of the first games to divide Organized PvP with Gladiator (Random) PvP.
Many lessons are to be learned throughout the last decade of MMORPG development. It's sad that the developers who attempted to correct the issues are among the lesser successful MMORPGs.
I am very confused about what you are saying Rift and WAR did. Rift just carbon copied WoW's dungeon finder (which is a great tool) and I thought WAR was just standard PvP queueing, but I havent played that game in a long time so maybe its different now.
WoW is going to be the first game to have a raid group finder, and well see how that goes.
Problem is, random PuGs are just not organized enough to do raids. Blizzard realizes this so they are gimping the raids even more for their tool, otherwise it would be a flop. And lesser content should eman lesser gear, so you still arent getting the best gear, but you get to see the content (which is what MMORPGs should be about anyway, content)
OP needs to look for a large but casual guild that happens to raid, as opposed to a raid guild. There are plenty of guilds out there, just use the forums and look around a bit.
Rift had the ultimate in potential for raids... RIFTS.
The game was very fun up until the endgame -- I mean most of the content you actually did was more dynamic. A rift event comes up and you beat it back. You didnt HAVE to join a guild or a group -- you didnt have set times. If 7 people were fighting at rift X and you show up, 8 people are fighting at rift X.
There were consequences (although they should have played this up more) -- IE if nobody decides to try to clear the rift event, you end up with rifts all over the place etc. -- they take over quest points...
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Once you got to the endgame it became the typical group then raid grind. Set timers on how often you can do X. Set lockouts for Y. Set guild groups and raids. The same thing over and over.
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Rift had the opportunity to bring back something that Everquest 1 had -- the ad hoc anytime raid.
True Raid targets (with appropriate rewards) could and should have been entering the world at random times where anyone could participate. Dungeons could have been OPEN as opposed to instanced.
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They had a good system but decided to cap the rewards at the sub-group dungeon level and go standard formula at that point.
I am very confused about what you are saying Rift and WAR did. Rift just carbon copied WoW's dungeon finder (which is a great tool) and I thought WAR was just standard PvP queueing, but I havent played that game in a long time so maybe its different now.
WoW is going to be the first game to have a raid group finder, and well see how that goes.
Problem is, random PuGs are just not organized enough to do raids. Blizzard realizes this so they are gimping the raids even more for their tool, otherwise it would be a flop. And lesser content should eman lesser gear, so you still arent getting the best gear, but you get to see the content (which is what MMORPGs should be about anyway, content)
OP needs to look for a large but casual guild that happens to raid, as opposed to a raid guild. There are plenty of guilds out there, just use the forums and look around a bit.
You don't remember Warhammer Online's Group Finding System? Me neither (The details are what I don't remember), but I do remember you could click a button to automatically join a nearby group. Groups could be public or private.
Rift has a similar system.
These systems just never were carried over to Raids and PvP unfortunately.
Aside from the set times for raids, the other issue from the OP is guilds having "closed" groups for 10 and 20 man instances.
This isn't confined to Rift, as it is a natural reaction to keep with the same group of players, especially if these have been successful in past raid encounters.
To fit the new guy in often means that a longer serving member of the guild would have to give up their slot in the raid group. This is not any easy decision to make, and equally difficult to accept for the player who gets dropped from the group.
The safest option, both in terms of raid success and group satisfaction is to stick with the same team. Unfortunately this can make it difficult for newer members in the guild to secure a raid position.
This difficulty is exacerbated by the gear drops from raids. The core raid members abilities will obviously improve from the higher stat gear, widening the gap between them and someone trying to break into the group.
This is not a criticism of the raiding set up in Rift (or many other games). It is just the way it is, a natural consequence of raiding group progression.
I wouldn't normally have a problem with this paragraph if people didn't see raids as an elite esport which they think gives them the excuse to act like a snob lol. Sometimes I think they're trolling, but after watching WoWHobbs on Youtube talk about how raids are really special and only certain people can do them and how everyone else (non-raiders) are just an annoyance because he doesn't want to invite those people I realized no these snobby people actually exist and people actually subscribe to his channel because they want to be part of the "in-crowd."
Blizzard only cares about the MMORPG Experience being Quality, Quick and Easy. Random PuGs can beat raids, it just wouldn't fit their quick and easy game experience.
I would rather be up to the difficult challenge of beating raids with random people than in a guild. I'd rather be the "out-crowd." They're a much cooler bunch.
It is a flawed system and having had the same issue in games like WOW it cost them my sub in that game too , potentially thousands of my hard earnt dollars have been wasted elsewhere , usually on single player games when I couldve been spending them on MMO's for longer.
Some games which did manage to keep my playing were sandbox type MMO's .
RIFT was no grind from 1 to 50 , in fact I thought it was too fast as I never had to grind once but it only took a few weeks to reach level cap and I felt I was rushed through zones.
I would still be playing now if I was in a good guild but in some ways Im glad because I now don't have to stay up till 1am in the morning to finish a dungeon or being tied down for 4 hours a couple of nights a week when I didnt really feel like playing .
Now that Im waiting for SWTOR to come out I fear this game will be more of the same at end game , I guess I will just play it for the story then move on to GW2 & Diablo 3 etc , maybe arche age will be the "one" which will keep me invested for long term.
This is exactly the reason why raiding is the stupidist and most idiotic form of content. Having to organize and set times to play the game is so mind dumbingly stupid its hard to describe.
Quit and pick up a few normal RPGs that are coming out over the course of the next few months, Skyrim next month, Reckoning in Feb and hopefully you will keep busy over the next sevearl months waiting for the mother of all innovative MMO;s in GW2 to release.
The death of raiding is near and I for 1 can not wait.
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I also can't wait for the death of raiding , and the people who do it are going to become rich.
I enjoy raiding and certainly hope it survives as a gaming institution.
The presentation certainly can use some changes, but there is nothing more fun to me than organized PvE. Keeping the emphasis on fun instead of time commitment, and execution leeway instead of needing to repeat one strategy flawlessly would be great improvements imo.
I also can't wait for the death of raiding , and the people who do it are going to become rich.
I enjoy raiding and certainly hope it survives as a gaming institution.
The presentation certainly can use some changes, but there is nothing more fun to me than organized PvE. Keeping the emphasis on fun instead of time commitment, and execution leeway instead of needing to repeat one strategy flawlessly would be great improvements imo.
Just grab a pitch fork and a torch and yell "Die raiding die! lol!" It's more fun.
The problem is NOT that there is raiding...
The problem is that raiding is the be all end all and provides better equipment etc than any other method of play.
When a game has a viable solo, group, crafting, pvp, and raid endgame where the depths of each is not massively better than the others is when a game will shine (maybe dethrone wow).
As it stands now they give the best rewards for raids because "It is harder to coordinate that many people." Actually -- raids are but a shadow of the 72 person behemoths that EQ1 raids were. Also the fact that you can complete a raid with fewer than the maximum number of people means there is room for hanger-onners and unless someone does something really REALLY stupid, your contribution to a raid is far less likely to sink it than it is for say hard group content.
I find raid content to be EASIER than appropriately balanced group content in general. If everyone follows orders and plays with a minimal amount of competence then so long as they are appropriately geared they will win. Tremendous skill is more likely to turn an overmatched group encounter around than to succeed in an overmatched raid encounter.
It's usually about treasure (loot ) hunting , and people want the best treasure . Unfortunately they have made it so you need 20 people to get the best treasure (loot) .
In old school pen and paper D&D it was always a party of players usually 3-5 people.
Now they try to jam pack 20 people into a 1 dungeon , instead of having a few friends on an adventure you need the entire football team to be playing all at once.
Since when did games become a job?
this is the point exactly. you would be hard pressed to find a gamer, especially one with an rpg background, who wants the game to be "easy" and wants everything "handed to them" as solo gamers are often accused of wanting. it's not that at all. it's recognition of the fact that when you start jamming more and more people into a dungeon, it becomes less an intimate union of characters, but a tiresome challenge of egos and melodrama.
3-5 is the sweet spot. anything above that becomes ridiculous and has absolutely been responsible for making endgame the nastiest and most pointless part of the game.
what makes me cringe more are those who sit there on their high horse and tell the OP that maybe raiding "isn't for you" and seem to mock anyone who speaks against raiders as being somehow softcore noobs who don't like "hard content". but it isn't the content that's hard. it's the personalities of raiding guilds, of which the MAJORITY are elitist, self-absorbed and often comprised of (mostly) unemployed or students who don't understand the concept of real life.
no one is arguing that those who spend more time can level faster, get everything faster, and run around on their pretty mount and wave their epeens about faster. good on you. well done. but when large portions of the player base are essentially locked out of ever seeing half the content in the game, then something's not working right.
gaming is about playing with friends. about meeting people on a more positive basis than ruthless efficiency. it's, for me, as much a social gathering as a sport, and raiding destroys that. raiding is like everyone playing human centipede rather than d&d.
i love a good challenge. i love a dungeon which is hard to beat. which is why i'm all for random spawns and the possibility of random map changes (such as the diablo style) so that it's impossible to "know" the fight. i want that level of surprise and horror as the boss does the unexpected, rather than follows a pattern. i don't mind wiping. i want to be pounding the keys on my keyboard while struggling to stay alive, not knowing what the hell is around the next corner. i want THAT challenge.
not the challenge of logging on at the correct time or getting kicked and abused via email or even (shock) sms because my bus is late and i've been forced to group with people on the other side of the world because the five real friends who are playing aren't enough to play the game.
in short: how many it takes to kill a boss doesn't equal a higher level of difficulty. just a higher level of choreography. save that for the dance mmos.
I actually have to admit i agree with the idea that raids are really not hard (baring some modes), but just more tedious as well as drawn out. I actually found most of the lowwer 5 man instances more challenging as well as irratating (from annoying concepts to limited resorces). I find that some of the difficulty of 5 man or smaller end groups is that you do not have the resources of having all th buffs as well as utilty of abilities that it present in a large raid group, making it that you can not skip r negate a machanic in some fights to make it easier, but in a raid you have to have these utilities or you wipe (not harder but in most cases you will wipe.) this is not difficulty since their is litttle or no chance of success without core abbilities that are otherwise optional/unreliablely brought in other conent groups. I knwo that it is both a gear grind as well as a story progression in the game design, but i would say that it should be either larger or smaller then 20 sicne it is just too easyy to get what you needin that group size while hard to fine tune it to be a challenge outside of playing a game of wack a mole as well as twister. I lieked the 40 man and ealier size raids from the generation of wow and prior, mostly they felt more challenging but it was much harder to get those groups together. What ruined rift is the fact that the tier'ed loot system they used was either far to wide in someplaces, and yet far too close in others to make it that you could skip alot of content in the game while getting stranded in ther content.
I enjoy the invasion raids that form spontaneously. I have seen this before in Istaria (Horizons) and City of Heroes invasions. Rift does it better.
I have not done the group and raid gear grind since Everquest. It is the same in every game and I have no desire to repeat the experience.
However, had those 5 dungeons been 5 objectives in a persistent open-world map where each faction cooperatively plays for and against, there wouldn't be team or player exclusion.