All conent pvp and pve is redundant as well as loses it's appeal no matter what you do really. I mean the zone events, invasions and such are predetermined activities that happen on a random chance of which type and event comes up. For me the invasions and such were fun as well as entertaining, but yet i am a story/lore buff so the instance grouping content is where my time is spent. Msot peopel who do the grind of gear dip thru an instance without really looking at the story or activities going on in them, same with many of the other actiivities that are done in mmo, even the new invasion/zone event system is a way of gearing with a more randomized as well as free form feel to it. I played since cb in rift till about a month ago, had seen largely every coonent as well as invasion, event, and secret that was in te game at that point.
Originally posted by Grailer I also can't wait for the death of raiding , and the people who do it are going to become rich.
The problem is NOT that there is raiding...
The problem is that raiding is the be all end all and provides better equipment etc than any other method of play.
When a game has a viable solo, group, crafting, pvp, and raid endgame where the depths of each is not massively better than the others is when a game will shine (maybe dethrone wow).
As it stands now they give the best rewards for raids because "It is harder to coordinate that many people." Actually -- raids are but a shadow of the 72 person behemoths that EQ1 raids were. Also the fact that you can complete a raid with fewer than the maximum number of people means there is room for hanger-onners and unless someone does something really REALLY stupid, your contribution to a raid is far less likely to sink it than it is for say hard group content.
I find raid content to be EASIER than appropriately balanced group content in general. If everyone follows orders and plays with a minimal amount of competence then so long as they are appropriately geared they will win. Tremendous skill is more likely to turn an overmatched group encounter around than to succeed in an overmatched raid encounter.
It's usually about treasure (loot ) hunting , and people want the best treasure . Unfortunately they have made it so you need 20 people to get the best treasure (loot) .
In old school pen and paper D&D it was always a party of players usually 3-5 people.
Now they try to jam pack 20 people into a 1 dungeon , instead of having a few friends on an adventure you need the entire football team to be playing all at once.
Since when did games become a job?
this is the point exactly. you would be hard pressed to find a gamer, especially one with an rpg background, who wants the game to be "easy" and wants everything "handed to them" as solo gamers are often accused of wanting. it's not that at all. it's recognition of the fact that when you start jamming more and more people into a dungeon, it becomes less an intimate union of characters, but a tiresome challenge of egos and melodrama.
3-5 is the sweet spot. anything above that becomes ridiculous and has absolutely been responsible for making endgame the nastiest and most pointless part of the game.
what makes me cringe more are those who sit there on their high horse and tell the OP that maybe raiding "isn't for you" and seem to mock anyone who speaks against raiders as being somehow softcore noobs who don't like "hard content". but it isn't the content that's hard. it's the personalities of raiding guilds, of which the MAJORITY are elitist, self-absorbed and often comprised of (mostly) unemployed or students who don't understand the concept of real life.
no one is arguing that those who spend more time can level faster, get everything faster, and run around on their pretty mount and wave their epeens about faster. good on you. well done. but when large portions of the player base are essentially locked out of ever seeing half the content in the game, then something's not working right.
gaming is about playing with friends. about meeting people on a more positive basis than ruthless efficiency. it's, for me, as much a social gathering as a sport, and raiding destroys that. raiding is like everyone playing human centipede rather than d&d.
i love a good challenge. i love a dungeon which is hard to beat. which is why i'm all for random spawns and the possibility of random map changes (such as the diablo style) so that it's impossible to "know" the fight. i want that level of surprise and horror as the boss does the unexpected, rather than follows a pattern. i don't mind wiping. i want to be pounding the keys on my keyboard while struggling to stay alive, not knowing what the hell is around the next corner. i want THAT challenge.
not the challenge of logging on at the correct time or getting kicked and abused via email or even (shock) sms because my bus is late and i've been forced to group with people on the other side of the world because the five real friends who are playing aren't enough to play the game.
in short: how many it takes to kill a boss doesn't equal a higher level of difficulty. just a higher level of choreography. save that for the dance mmos.
Yeah pretty much. It just boils down to how good is your raid group at being sheep. And then when all the sheepies get together they like to make fun of the non-sheeps.
It would be nice to see raiding conent that is based around man r man groups with alot of dynamic, machanic based, and also several randomized effects or abbilities that are possessed by the boss as well as his hentchmen. Add in afew random spawns, rarity mobs, specality bosses, and even super buffing for the instance/raid to make it feel differentt and new it might be interesting longer. THough one thing that would be intresting would be to rotate out bosses in content to bring in a new boss that has different strats as well as abbilities on a daily or weekly basis with the boss changes havng story as well as machanic changes to the content.
I thought Rift was very well done being that I didn't even hear of the game until like a month before it released. I thought Trion did a fantastic job and continues to do a fantastic job trying to stay on top of what their fans want and don't want and what works or doesn't work in an MMO.
I loved the levelling... but after getting 3 toons to 50 and my fourth to lvl 42 in under 6 months, I decided that if I wanted to raid and gear grind, I might as well return to WoW. I had more time invested there anyway and the only reason I was looking for a new game was because I was sick of the raiding to gear grind endgame.
So... I might return now that they have two player instances but... I'm not sure I miss it enough yet.
I loved the levelling... but after getting 3 toons to 50 and my fourth to lvl 42 in under 6 months, I decided that if I wanted to raid and gear grind, I might as well return to WoW. I had more time invested there anyway and the only reason I was looking for a new game was because I was sick of the raiding to gear grind endgame.
So... I might return now that they have two player instances but... I'm not sure I miss it enough yet.
Each patch has shifted away from raiding and the only path for gear and 1.6 will be a big change. Hardly anything in WoW gave me the enjoyment I am getting from Rift right now. When I copy and paste the Trion post of full features and patch notes here you will see just what they have done.
I know for example I spent 3 hours online just now and never went above 5man content. Rift has something going for it to the point Blizzard is copying them now.
Originally posted by Grailer It is a flawed system and having had the same issue in games like WOW it cost them my sub in that game too , potentially thousands of my hard earnt dollars have been wasted elsewhere , usually on single player games when I couldve been spending them on MMO's for longer. RIFT was no grind from 1 to 50 , in fact I thought it was too fast as I never had to grind once but it only took a few weeks to reach level cap and I felt I was rushed through zones.
Unlike your opening post, I agree with you here on this.
Rift is kind of weird this way. The game starts you out super fast; the tutorial area is a perfect example of that when I compare that to something like LOTRO's. LOTRO gives you a tute very fast, then dumps you into the noob area that is still not part of the world for you to explore. Rift gives you a 30 minute tute and then puts you in the first zone. The game just gets faster after that especially if you have a CE mount like I did.
After going through hub after hub in Rift where you are forced to have tons of quests (really, if they offer it to you you're going to take it for lore sake), you go out and do them and get distracted by rifts and invasions (which are fun). So by the time you come back and turn your quests in, you may have two levels done easy. The game is simply TOO fast.
Then at 50, Trion slams you into something totally different; Grindaholics Anonymous where everyone is off the wagon. Rep grind, Gear grind, Planar grind.. and now PA grind. It's almost schizophrenic how the game is in that regard.
This is why I'm sour of these heavy grinding raid games anymore. At least with TOR you have a different option endgame; that and I don't need ten thousand skills to do things cluttering up my UI.
this is the point exactly. you would be hard pressed to find a gamer, especially one with an rpg background, who wants the game to be "easy" and wants everything "handed to them" as solo gamers are often accused of wanting. it's not that at all. it's recognition of the fact that when you start jamming more and more people into a dungeon, it becomes less an intimate union of characters, but a tiresome challenge of egos and melodrama.
3-5 is the sweet spot.
You had a nice post, but I just wanted to touch on this part as I agree with most of your contribution.
As bad as DCUO was at launch, the one thing they did which I absolutely loved was no more than 8 man raids. They had solo dungeons, duos, four mans, and eight mans. To me it's the perfect balance. It was easy to do because every class had two sides; either healer/dps, tank/dps, or CC/dps. But any two combos of those classes could beat any Duo dungeon, even two healers or two tanks.
The four/eight mans required more Holy Trin setup with a healer/tank being necessary most of the time, but not all (like the Smallville Doomsday boss). But the balance of group size made it feel very intimate and not feel like it was some godawful Kiwanis Club meeting was perfect.
More games are doing this now and I think devs are actually relieved. I can't imagine thinking devs want to keep designing 20 and 40 man stuff when they can make smaller scale stuff just as challenging in possibly half or one third of the time because you don't have as many balancing issues due to party sizes.
One other good thing about the EARLY raids was the self-balancing aspect.
There were a number of pre-time raids that the guild I was in did occasionally as a numbers challenge...
IE: Take a 72 person raid target -- and beat it with 19 people. Try it with 17 -- can you do it with 15?
In this era of instancing they are very good at deciding pass or fail before you even start -- a 20 person raid can be balanced to the point where if you have 20 people of optimum classes with T1 armor you will fail. If you have 20 people with T3 armor you will succeed. The only time where it is in the balance is when people have T2 armor. And if that dungeon rewards T2 stuff you end up with the T3 people never bothering to do it and the people who are T1 will fail so you end up with Drag me through dungeons where you have say half T3/T4 who cant get anything they need and T1s they drag along.
In the olde days some of the items on some of the earlier monsters were actually still good. Sometimes they were even tradable. The definition of hard was how many people you needed. IE you were doing the plane of fire... You had 40 people able to go -- and that was fine -- you could do the 72 person raid with 40 people. If you had 30 you would probably fail. If the raid was new to you, a full raid of 72 lesser geared people could take it down.
It wasnt so very "set" except for the hardest raids in the game where you needed 72 well-geared people or key raids where it was designed to be a problem with 72 appropriate people -- like coirnav.
At any rate in the old days it was 72 people max but you didnt need 72 people... These days you always bring the set number of people allowed... 10 person "raid" -- you arent bringing 7.
All conent pvp and pve is redundant as well as loses it's appeal no matter what you do really. I mean the zone events, invasions and such are predetermined activities that happen on a random chance of which type and event comes up. For me the invasions and such were fun as well as entertaining, but yet i am a story/lore buff so the instance grouping content is where my time is spent. Msot peopel who do the grind of gear dip thru an instance without really looking at the story or activities going on in them, same with many of the other actiivities that are done in mmo, even the new invasion/zone event system is a way of gearing with a more randomized as well as free form feel to it. I played since cb in rift till about a month ago, had seen largely every coonent as well as invasion, event, and secret that was in te game at that point.
I disagree! If a game is fun and offers plenty of choices in content then there is literally years of fun and enjoyment to be had. I can attest to this because ive been playing Asherons Call since 1999 and it has never grown tired due to content, what has grown tiresome in AC is the fact that the graphics and UI are so dated it makes attracting new followers non existant.
Make plenty of content (PvE, crafting, socio-economic, grouping, soloing, PvP, exploration, political etc) that doesnt give clear advantage to one type of player and add in good graphics, great production quality, fun combat, intuitive UI and that game will blow all others away, including WoW.
This is why I'm sour of these heavy grinding raid games anymore. At least with TOR you have a different option endgame; that and I don't need ten thousand skills to do things cluttering up my UI.
I have been an avid and staunch doomsayer of ToR, mind telling me what will make it so different from WoW and its forced raiding as the sole and best source of content post level cap?
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
You had a nice post, but I just wanted to touch on this part as I agree with most of your contribution.
As bad as DCUO was at launch, the one thing they did which I absolutely loved was no more than 8 man raids. They had solo dungeons, duos, four mans, and eight mans. To me it's the perfect balance. It was easy to do because every class had two sides; either healer/dps, tank/dps, or CC/dps. But any two combos of those classes could beat any Duo dungeon, even two healers or two tanks.
The four/eight mans required more Holy Trin setup with a healer/tank being necessary most of the time, but not all (like the Smallville Doomsday boss). But the balance of group size made it feel very intimate and not feel like it was some godawful Kiwanis Club meeting was perfect.
More games are doing this now and I think devs are actually relieved. I can't imagine thinking devs want to keep designing 20 and 40 man stuff when they can make smaller scale stuff just as challenging in possibly half or one third of the time because you don't have as many balancing issues due to party sizes.
thanks, guy
dcuo had some great ideas. solo dungeons in particular were a brilliant way of including everyone. in fact, i think you could please everyone by having dungeons/raids scale. that way if you WANT to go in with 20, that's fine. perhaps it simply spawns larger mobs etc. at end of it, get a shiny tick on some achievement board. whatever.
i totally agree being forced into the standard trinity setup is just as bad, and 3-5 can promote that a little too much. it's a hard call, raids. i can see why developers have a hard time with it. it's hard to please everyone. it's finding the "cap", i guess. the point at which it all starts falling apart and becoming a chore and less of a challenging game.
intimacy is certainly the factor. some of my fondest memories in dungeons were those where we may have gone in one-short of the minimum and just CRAWLED through it. maybe wiped on the boss a few times, but got there in the end. just a small bunch of gamers having fun killing together.
i totally agree being forced into the standard trinity setup is just as bad, and 3-5 can promote that a little too much. it's a hard call, raids. i can see why developers have a hard time with it. it's hard to please everyone.
it's finding the "cap", i guess. the point at which it all starts falling apart and becoming a chore and less of a challenging game.
intimacy is certainly the factor. some of my fondest memories in dungeons were those where we may have gone in one-short of the minimum and just CRAWLED through it. maybe wiped on the boss a few times, but got there in the end. just a small bunch of gamers having fun killing together. and that's what mmos are all about, really.
I probably wrote this part wrong, but that's not what I meant to say about small dungeon groups. Actually when you think about it, the larger the raid or boss, the more reliance ON the typical Holy Trinity setup there is. It's why I laugh when I see raiders saying how much they hate Holy Trinity games and want more flexibility. You can't get that with a 20 man raid; it's impossible. Raiding is the biggest enabler of the Holy Trinity system around.
If you have a solo, no trinity obviously. Duo same thing. Even trio or four-man you can give each player offensive and defensive skills (and maybe an emergency heal or two) that would make the Trinity unnecessary.
It's once you pass four people that this model begins to break down, mostly depending on game. Before then you can usually have a system of "rotation", where each class can "tank" for possibly 10 seconds before starting to go down, and someone else has to jump in while that person recovers. There isn't a tank or healer doing one thing, just everyone smartly learning how to shift aggro properly. These types of fights are things I love because it makes players get smart.
Example: In FFXI, we used to have Blackmage nuke parties, where you would take all Blackmages and one Redmage, find a hard mob and the mages would time their aoe nukes (which were stronger than solo) to hit the mob. The idea was one, two, three nuke.. sleep mob, one two, three nuke.. dead mob. This went on for hours and usually without a hitch.
Every once in awhile, the mob would invariably start chasing one BLM after that because it just lost 1/3rd of it's life and maybe the Sleep spell failed. Then the next nuke package you'd have everyone BUT the aggroed mage nuking, then the mob would shift to someone else. It was actually kind of cool to keep you on your toes. The RDM was there for mana provision and spot emergency heals, but not a "healer" role.
You can't do this type of focused play with anything bigger than four people because the mobs level has to be higher for say, 10 people. So you're looking at more instant deaths and also more confusing trying to get 10 people to rotate dps, and then stopping when they need to or they will die because there's no real healer.
All conent pvp and pve is redundant as well as loses it's appeal no matter what you do really. I mean the zone events, invasions and such are predetermined activities that happen on a random chance of which type and event comes up. For me the invasions and such were fun as well as entertaining, but yet i am a story/lore buff so the instance grouping content is where my time is spent. Msot peopel who do the grind of gear dip thru an instance without really looking at the story or activities going on in them, same with many of the other actiivities that are done in mmo, even the new invasion/zone event system is a way of gearing with a more randomized as well as free form feel to it. I played since cb in rift till about a month ago, had seen largely every coonent as well as invasion, event, and secret that was in te game at that point.
I disagree! If a game is fun and offers plenty of choices in content then there is literally years of fun and enjoyment to be had. I can attest to this because ive been playing Asherons Call since 1999 and it has never grown tired due to content, what has grown tiresome in AC is the fact that the graphics and UI are so dated it makes attracting new followers non existant.
Make plenty of content (PvE, crafting, socio-economic, grouping, soloing, PvP, exploration, political etc) that doesnt give clear advantage to one type of player and add in good graphics, great production quality, fun combat, intuitive UI and that game will blow all others away, including WoW.
This is why I'm sour of these heavy grinding raid games anymore. At least with TOR you have a different option endgame; that and I don't need ten thousand skills to do things cluttering up my UI.
I have been an avid and staunch doomsayer of ToR, mind telling me what will make it so different from WoW and its forced raiding as the sole and best source of content post level cap?
Yet the shine as well as feel of that first run thru a instance or event wil always be the funner overall then mosst other runs, barring group issues or facts (that is not really apart of the pvp or pve content, since it could happen anywhere in the content.), this is why you need more and varied content in a mmo. The content's fun factor goes down hill as you play it till it is merely a means to an end. The game may not have grown tired but the content that you play to entertain yourself may have grown tired. The faster and more interesting the content is the slwoer it loses it's appeal, but if you play any game for too long it will feel redundant, for the sheer fact you feel that you have done this many times before, as stated later added content postpones this effect.
Added content is a good way to prolong the fun in a game that is what is doen now with instances, they add afew to keep you interested as you deleve into a new one leaving the oldeer ones behind. I would lvoe to see them add more features of conent into a mmo, although i am not sure it would happen till this instance-based gear grind is not popular, since adding in more features would take more money that would have to be recuped by the company.
I agree with hating the raiding gear grind, yet i like the tory aspect of raids giving you a prospective of what is hapening in the game at that point in progression. I like the ideas of tor has, yet in the end alot of people will get to level cap start the gear/progression grind as they have always. THis is merely the mind set of some players that like this stylee of play overall. I am also going to play tor till tsw comes out, since i like the setting as well as concept of tsw alot more then tor.
Tor has never said it would be different then wow, but yet it has much more areas to search, play in, story (that is personalized to the class.), as well as platary stories for those that like lore. Most of the players will go either pvp or pve raiding in mmos right now, with alot doing both, is that a bad idea or concept? Not for those that are entertained by it. I have abotu 2 months left on my rift sub yet i never log in now mostly out of being bored of the content that it has being tired for me.
Its like you go to a restaurant and look at the menu. You see an entree with broccoli. You hate broccoli but you order it anyway and you're pissed. Then your entree comes and you eat the broccoli and you hate it. Then you go home and say that restaurant sucked.
Point is, do us all a favor and pick something else on the menu. Maybe something you actually like this time. I'm burnt out on dungeons, instanced pvp, and instanced raids. So I'm Rifting, crafting, and roleplaying. I'm having a great time (shock and awe!).
If you can't find a single thing you like on the menu, then obviously its not for you. But to play an aspect of a game you hate, while there are plenty of other aspects, then blame the game? That's just....stupid?
Its like you go to a restaurant and look at the menu. You see an entree with broccoli. You hate broccoli but you order it anyway and you're pissed. Then your entree comes and you eat the broccoli and you hate it. Then you go home and say that restaurant sucked.
Point is, do us all a favor and pick something else on the menu. Maybe something you actually like this time. I'm burnt out on dungeons, instanced pvp, and instanced raids. So I'm Rifting, crafting, and roleplaying. I'm having a great time (shock and awe!).
If you can't find a single thing you like on the menu, then obviously its not for you. But to play an aspect of a game you hate, while there are plenty of other aspects, then blame the game? That's just....stupid?
Thing is though that it is not that you ordered an entree with brocolli -- at least not to start...
The best restaurant analogy would be...
You order steak and it has wonderful steak and that is what you order at the restaurant from level 1-49...
When you hit level 50 the restaurant announces that it will no longer serve steak.
You look at the new menu and all you see are these fancy french dishes that require a really refined pallette and are much spicier/fancier and slobbered in odd sauces that you don't like or understand.
You try eating there a few times but it doesnt taste very good to you, you end up waiting 45 minutes for your meal instead of 12 minutes and you end up still being hungry when you finish the meal.
What you really want is nice simple fare -- a good steak -- but they no longer serve steak...
So you change restaurants and bemoan that it was once a great place to eat but it doesnt cater to you anymore.
Thing is though that it is not that you ordered an entree with brocolli -- at least not to start...
The best restaurant analogy would be...
You order steak and it has wonderful steak and that is what you order at the restaurant from level 1-49...
When you hit level 50 the restaurant announces that it will no longer serve steak.
You look at the new menu and all you see are these fancy french dishes that require a really refined pallette and are much spicier/fancier and slobbered in odd sauces that you don't like or understand.
You try eating there a few times but it doesnt taste very good to you, you end up waiting 45 minutes for your meal instead of 12 minutes and you end up still being hungry when you finish the meal.
What you really want is nice simple fare -- a good steak -- but they no longer serve steak...
So you change restaurants and bemoan that it was once a great place to eat but it doesnt cater to you anymore.
ok but here is all the ways you can get raid level gear without ever stepping foot in even a 10 man. Now tell me if you can do this in WoW:
1. Planar gear from straight Rifting <---this going to have far more T1 raid gear on this vendor then it does alreadyin 1.6
2. A crafter can make you an entire set of raid gear
3. Drops from open world raid rifts that can be done with 20 people ..not instanced
4. Master mode Darkening Deeps...harder version of the 5 man with a new boss.. <----I got 2 upgrades just this weekend myself
5. Come 1.6 rep vendors on Ember Isle will have raid gear
6. Rank 8 pvp set is on par with dps from the hardest raid in the game. This does not come easy, but neither does a full clear of Hammerknell
This is all without even stepping foot into a 10man. Then you have Drowned Halls the starter 10man which can EASILY be pugged. After which you have 10man Guilded Prohphesy which can be pug'd.
Only stuff that is hard in Rift is maybe the new 10man in 1.6 and Hammerknell. If I want to see the inside of Hammerknell I queue for a chornicle and I can see up to 3 bosses + also get a vanity mount if I am lucky.
There is a cold chance any of the above was EVER EVER EVER EVER happening in WoW EVER. So as has been stated multiple times in this thread raiding is not the main focus of Rift.
Originally posted by Puremallace Originally posted by centkin
Thing is though that it is not that you ordered an entree with brocolli -- at least not to start... The best restaurant analogy would be... You order steak and it has wonderful steak and that is what you order at the restaurant from level 1-49... When you hit level 50 the restaurant announces that it will no longer serve steak. You look at the new menu and all you see are these fancy french dishes that require a really refined pallette and are much spicier/fancier and slobbered in odd sauces that you don't like or understand. You try eating there a few times but it doesnt taste very good to you, you end up waiting 45 minutes for your meal instead of 12 minutes and you end up still being hungry when you finish the meal. What you really want is nice simple fare -- a good steak -- but they no longer serve steak... So you change restaurants and bemoan that it was once a great place to eat but it doesnt cater to you anymore.
ok but here is all the ways you can get raid level gear without ever stepping foot in even a 10 man. Now tell me if you can do this in WoW:
5. Come 1.6 rep vendors on Ember Isle will have raid gear
"Come WoW's next expansion.."
"Come ToR's release..."
"Come GW2's launch..." See how that works?
You can't use in an argument someone is saying that something isn't IN the game right now to do the excuse that "it's coming".
If it's not here yet it doesn't count. You can't even do it in Rift yet and you're saying you can't do it in WoW.
You can't use in an argument someone is saying that something isn't IN the game right now to do the excuse that "it's coming".
If it's not here yet it doesn't count. You can't even do it in Rift yet and you're saying you can't do it in WoW.
It is there right now. Log onto the pts. This is not where I say well coming soon. When I say 1.6 I mean 2 weeks. Since 4.2 has come out in July for WoW Rift has gotten 1.4, 1.5 and will get 1.6 all of this before 4.3 in WoW which is maybe in December from what the games own fans say.
If you look at the amount of content added compared there is no comparrison. Also that gear added to the rep vendors COME DIRECTLY from exit surveys like that OP fills out that Blizzard ignored and Trion listens too. I should know because I made this exact same specific request on my WoW exit survey and nothing ever changed.
Right this moment I can tell you the inscribed sourcestone cost so that you can go farm Rifts and by the time 1.6 comes out you can have it saved and ready to buy an entire set. Also you picked one out of 6 ways I posted to focus on ignored the other 5 which are extremely valid.
People saying that raiding is the end all be all of Rift obviously quit months ago and are simply not playing right now. I can clock some serious hours in this game without ever touching raiding.
I do believe the OP does deserve to know that Trion is listening to his request and when you make a constructive thread even we can talk about it here you know it is important.
Originally posted by Puremallace Originally posted by popinjay "Come WoW's next expansion.." "Come ToR's release..." "Come GW2's launch..." See how that works? You can't use in an argument someone is saying that something isn't IN the game right now to do the excuse that "it's coming".
If it's not here yet it doesn't count. You can't even do it in Rift yet and you're saying you can't do it in WoW.
It is there right now. Log onto the pts. This is not where I say well coming soon. When I say 1.6 I mean 2 weeks. Since 4.2 has come out in July for WoW Rift has gotten 1.4, 1.5 and will get 1.6 all of this before 4.3 in WoW which is maybe in December from what the games own fans say.
If you look at the amount of content added compared there is no comparrison. Also that gear added to the rep vendors COME DIRECTLY from exit surveys like that OP fills out that Blizzard ignored and Trion listens too. I should know because I made this exact same specific request on my WoW exit survey and nothing ever changed.
Right this moment I can tell you the inscribed sourcestone cost so that you can go farm Rifts and by the time 1.6 comes out you can have it saved and ready to buy an entire set. Also you picked one out of 6 ways I posted to focus on ignored the other 5 which are extremely valid.
People saying that raiding is the end all be all of Rift obviously quit months ago and are simply not playing right now. I can clock some serious hours in this game without ever touching raiding. No no.. I'm saying the person was talking about things they found in Rift NOW and previously, and you are saying "well, coming soon in 1.6". Two weeks is still two weeks meaning its not here now. You're not looking at the perspective they wrote their post in.
It's like someone going to a restaurant (to continue the theme earlier) in the summer, tasting the menu and saying it's not very good, then another patron says, "Well, you really should taste the Winter menu. It's going to be fantastic from what I read and it's coming soon."
The posters was giving reasons to why they found Rift lacking NOW. Not in two weeks. Trion could delay the patch, you have no idea. Or it could be extremely buggy as things are now with people getting disconnected all over the place.
If you're going to say WoW doesn't have it, then you have to say does Rift have it yet either? In this case, no they don't so it's probably better to talk about what they have now instead of the coming attractions.
I have played Rift since release and was having a blast doing 5 man content , when the LFG system came out even tho it was a bit dodgy and some groups were just bad I made it work for me .
However eventually I had farmed every single item possible and basically done the 5 dungeons to death.
It was time to move onto 10 - 20 man content .
To do this I had to join a raiding guild, most guilds already had there "CORE" raiders so I ended up sitting on sidelines in any guild I joined or maybe got into a raid if someone was sick etc , I moved from guild to guild looking for one which needed me to tank for them with my warrior .. in the end I gave up and re rolled a cleric .
Eventually I found I had farmed all the T2 5 man content with my cleric and back to same problem .. but lucky for me I found a guild which had room for 1 cleric healer . After a month the guild disbanded and I was back to looking for a guild again.
The problem is most guilds raid at set times , working odd times means I sometimes missed raids which meant I was not reliable to be a raider . However I have more free time to play than most raiders but just not "set" times.
So in the end my subscription came up for renewal . I had the choice .. spend another month or 2 looking for a guild , or quit .
I decided to quit.
So in my experiance, raiding is what kileld the game for me .
I can honestly say Rift wasnt the problem the problem was the guild you were in, or even your raid times.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
No no.. I'm saying the person was talking about things they found in Rift NOW and previously, and you are saying "well, coming soon in 1.6". Two weeks is still two weeks meaning its not here now. You're not looking at the perspective they wrote their post in.
It's like someone going to a restaurant (to continue the theme earlier) in the summer, tasting the menu and saying it's not very good, then another patron says, "Well, you really should taste the Winter menu. It's going to be fantastic from what I read and it's coming soon."
The posters was giving reasons to why they found Rift lacking NOW. Not in two weeks. Trion could delay the patch, you have no idea. Or it could be extremely buggy as things are now with people getting disconnected all over the place.
If you're going to say WoW doesn't have it, then you have to say does Rift have it yet either? In this case, no they don't so it's probably better to talk about what they have now instead of the coming attractions.
I see your point and I want you to see mine. The OP made this thread here. I listed 5 current ways in the game right now that in WoW would be consider "ZOMG WTF WELFARE GEAR FOR CAUSALS DERPPP".
Trion realized after about patch 1.2 that taking the WoW path of raid or die was not going to work because people like the OP outnumbered hardcore raiders. Blizzard is going on 7 years and still has not realized this and it is clear as day every single patch.
I think the OP deserves to know that unlike Blizzard who says well this expansion is crap, but next expansion will be better Trion does not make you wait. He is asking for more and with 1.6 they are adding more onto what it is already there.
I swear just from my knowledge of the game people who ask for stuff on the forums ussually get it within 2 months of it being posted. it seems they work that fast. There is just so much stuff Popin that I remember asking Blizzard that they told me was not technologically possible or was too time time consuming that Trion has done every patch.
. They said itemizing 10man and 20man content would drag out content and Trion has done it
. They said separating pve and pvp damage could not be done without causing too many issues
. They said open world content was not possible because it caused to much lag
. They said the patches took so long because I knew nothing about how developing content
. They said transfers cost so much because they were manually done and they had to pay this mysterious person
. They said pets and companions could be developed faster so that is why you saw them put that on the cash shop before they put out content
This is all stuff Blizzard has told people for years until one day I got tired of hearing excuses and left.
Rift is just another raid and gear grinding mmo, if thats what you are into you may aswell just play wow because wow does that the best. i remember when trion announced this game first, well lets just say its nothing like they said it would be in the early development stages..its just another standard mmo.
I have this issue with raiding in general, working a 4 shift system totally prohibits any serious raid schedule. I managed it in vanilla wow/tbc but eventually it just burned me out.
The only way to stay interested in most raid-centric-end-game mmo's these days is to:-
Either not work (frowned upon by tax payers and the government in these austere times).
Or find a decent paying job with regular hours 8-4 ish (9-5 sucks if you're gmt and your guild is +1,+2 gmt etc, worse time diff's in the states ofc :P).
Work in a job that allows you to play from your work's pc (sackable under gross misconduct reg's in most places unless you're the MD :P).
Finding a raid guild that works around it's players' work schedules is not easy, as easy as finding like minded people in modern mmo's which sponser solo play more than social aspects. This is why I eventually stopped playing rift and wow.
Rift is just another raid and gear grinding mmo, if thats what you are into you may aswell just play wow because wow does that the best. i remember when trion announced this game first, well its nothing like they said it would be in the early development stages..its just another standard mmo.
I am not going to repost what I told Popin, but raiding is there and in my view it is not mandatory to enjoy the game. I mean if raiding was the only factor, then I could tell people the same thing about ToR.
Well raiding is there, so that is there main focus and the only thing to do. Does this mean it is true?
Originally posted by nerovipus32 Rift is just another raid and gear grinding mmo, if thats what you are into you may aswell just play wow because wow does that the best. i remember when trion announced this game first, well lets just say its nothing like they said it would be in the early development stages..its just another standard mmo.
Rift is exactly what they described it to be. Anyone who was surprised at what Rift turned out to be didn't bother reading the feature lists.
I'm not big on raiding, so I was pretty sure I was going to get to max level in Rift, and then move on to something else. That's exactly what happened. I spent a decent two to three months playing and then moved on.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Rift is exactly what they described it to be. Anyone who was surprised at what Rift turned out to be didn't bother reading the feature lists.
I'm not big on raiding, so I was pretty sure I was going to get to max level in Rift, and then move on to something else. That's exactly what happened. I spent a decent two to three months playing and then moved on.
See but that is the hilarious part is you can get the raiding gear through methods like doing Rifts and then go into raiding. Right now there are:
1. 2 10man raids with a 3rd in 1.6
2. 3 20man raids
3. 5 20man Rift raids
4. 5 Expert rifts
You can not win for losing with some of the people on this website it seems. If they have raiding then it is a raiding game and you should not play it. If it does not have enough raiding then there is nothing to do and you should quit also.
I do not get why people keep saying these types of things on this board.
Comments
All conent pvp and pve is redundant as well as loses it's appeal no matter what you do really. I mean the zone events, invasions and such are predetermined activities that happen on a random chance of which type and event comes up. For me the invasions and such were fun as well as entertaining, but yet i am a story/lore buff so the instance grouping content is where my time is spent. Msot peopel who do the grind of gear dip thru an instance without really looking at the story or activities going on in them, same with many of the other actiivities that are done in mmo, even the new invasion/zone event system is a way of gearing with a more randomized as well as free form feel to it. I played since cb in rift till about a month ago, had seen largely every coonent as well as invasion, event, and secret that was in te game at that point.
The problem is NOT that there is raiding...
The problem is that raiding is the be all end all and provides better equipment etc than any other method of play.
When a game has a viable solo, group, crafting, pvp, and raid endgame where the depths of each is not massively better than the others is when a game will shine (maybe dethrone wow).
As it stands now they give the best rewards for raids because "It is harder to coordinate that many people." Actually -- raids are but a shadow of the 72 person behemoths that EQ1 raids were. Also the fact that you can complete a raid with fewer than the maximum number of people means there is room for hanger-onners and unless someone does something really REALLY stupid, your contribution to a raid is far less likely to sink it than it is for say hard group content.
I find raid content to be EASIER than appropriately balanced group content in general. If everyone follows orders and plays with a minimal amount of competence then so long as they are appropriately geared they will win. Tremendous skill is more likely to turn an overmatched group encounter around than to succeed in an overmatched raid encounter.
It's usually about treasure (loot ) hunting , and people want the best treasure . Unfortunately they have made it so you need 20 people to get the best treasure (loot) .
In old school pen and paper D&D it was always a party of players usually 3-5 people.
Now they try to jam pack 20 people into a 1 dungeon , instead of having a few friends on an adventure you need the entire football team to be playing all at once.
Since when did games become a job?
this is the point exactly. you would be hard pressed to find a gamer, especially one with an rpg background, who wants the game to be "easy" and wants everything "handed to them" as solo gamers are often accused of wanting. it's not that at all. it's recognition of the fact that when you start jamming more and more people into a dungeon, it becomes less an intimate union of characters, but a tiresome challenge of egos and melodrama.
3-5 is the sweet spot. anything above that becomes ridiculous and has absolutely been responsible for making endgame the nastiest and most pointless part of the game.
what makes me cringe more are those who sit there on their high horse and tell the OP that maybe raiding "isn't for you" and seem to mock anyone who speaks against raiders as being somehow softcore noobs who don't like "hard content". but it isn't the content that's hard. it's the personalities of raiding guilds, of which the MAJORITY are elitist, self-absorbed and often comprised of (mostly) unemployed or students who don't understand the concept of real life.
no one is arguing that those who spend more time can level faster, get everything faster, and run around on their pretty mount and wave their epeens about faster. good on you. well done. but when large portions of the player base are essentially locked out of ever seeing half the content in the game, then something's not working right.
gaming is about playing with friends. about meeting people on a more positive basis than ruthless efficiency. it's, for me, as much a social gathering as a sport, and raiding destroys that. raiding is like everyone playing human centipede rather than d&d.
i love a good challenge. i love a dungeon which is hard to beat. which is why i'm all for random spawns and the possibility of random map changes (such as the diablo style) so that it's impossible to "know" the fight. i want that level of surprise and horror as the boss does the unexpected, rather than follows a pattern. i don't mind wiping. i want to be pounding the keys on my keyboard while struggling to stay alive, not knowing what the hell is around the next corner. i want THAT challenge.
not the challenge of logging on at the correct time or getting kicked and abused via email or even (shock) sms because my bus is late and i've been forced to group with people on the other side of the world because the five real friends who are playing aren't enough to play the game.
in short: how many it takes to kill a boss doesn't equal a higher level of difficulty. just a higher level of choreography. save that for the dance mmos.
Yeah pretty much. It just boils down to how good is your raid group at being sheep. And then when all the sheepies get together they like to make fun of the non-sheeps.
It would be nice to see raiding conent that is based around man r man groups with alot of dynamic, machanic based, and also several randomized effects or abbilities that are possessed by the boss as well as his hentchmen. Add in afew random spawns, rarity mobs, specality bosses, and even super buffing for the instance/raid to make it feel differentt and new it might be interesting longer. THough one thing that would be intresting would be to rotate out bosses in content to bring in a new boss that has different strats as well as abbilities on a daily or weekly basis with the boss changes havng story as well as machanic changes to the content.
I thought Rift was very well done being that I didn't even hear of the game until like a month before it released. I thought Trion did a fantastic job and continues to do a fantastic job trying to stay on top of what their fans want and don't want and what works or doesn't work in an MMO.
I loved the levelling... but after getting 3 toons to 50 and my fourth to lvl 42 in under 6 months, I decided that if I wanted to raid and gear grind, I might as well return to WoW. I had more time invested there anyway and the only reason I was looking for a new game was because I was sick of the raiding to gear grind endgame.
So... I might return now that they have two player instances but... I'm not sure I miss it enough yet.
No bitchers.
Each patch has shifted away from raiding and the only path for gear and 1.6 will be a big change. Hardly anything in WoW gave me the enjoyment I am getting from Rift right now. When I copy and paste the Trion post of full features and patch notes here you will see just what they have done.
I know for example I spent 3 hours online just now and never went above 5man content. Rift has something going for it to the point Blizzard is copying them now.
Source: http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2011/october/art73.jpg
That is a Blizzard dev
Rift is kind of weird this way. The game starts you out super fast; the tutorial area is a perfect example of that when I compare that to something like LOTRO's. LOTRO gives you a tute very fast, then dumps you into the noob area that is still not part of the world for you to explore. Rift gives you a 30 minute tute and then puts you in the first zone. The game just gets faster after that especially if you have a CE mount like I did.
After going through hub after hub in Rift where you are forced to have tons of quests (really, if they offer it to you you're going to take it for lore sake), you go out and do them and get distracted by rifts and invasions (which are fun). So by the time you come back and turn your quests in, you may have two levels done easy. The game is simply TOO fast.
Then at 50, Trion slams you into something totally different; Grindaholics Anonymous where everyone is off the wagon. Rep grind, Gear grind, Planar grind.. and now PA grind. It's almost schizophrenic how the game is in that regard.
This is why I'm sour of these heavy grinding raid games anymore. At least with TOR you have a different option endgame; that and I don't need ten thousand skills to do things cluttering up my UI.
"TO MICHAEL!"
As bad as DCUO was at launch, the one thing they did which I absolutely loved was no more than 8 man raids. They had solo dungeons, duos, four mans, and eight mans. To me it's the perfect balance. It was easy to do because every class had two sides; either healer/dps, tank/dps, or CC/dps. But any two combos of those classes could beat any Duo dungeon, even two healers or two tanks.
The four/eight mans required more Holy Trin setup with a healer/tank being necessary most of the time, but not all (like the Smallville Doomsday boss). But the balance of group size made it feel very intimate and not feel like it was some godawful Kiwanis Club meeting was perfect.
More games are doing this now and I think devs are actually relieved. I can't imagine thinking devs want to keep designing 20 and 40 man stuff when they can make smaller scale stuff just as challenging in possibly half or one third of the time because you don't have as many balancing issues due to party sizes.
"TO MICHAEL!"
One other good thing about the EARLY raids was the self-balancing aspect.
There were a number of pre-time raids that the guild I was in did occasionally as a numbers challenge...
IE: Take a 72 person raid target -- and beat it with 19 people. Try it with 17 -- can you do it with 15?
In this era of instancing they are very good at deciding pass or fail before you even start -- a 20 person raid can be balanced to the point where if you have 20 people of optimum classes with T1 armor you will fail. If you have 20 people with T3 armor you will succeed. The only time where it is in the balance is when people have T2 armor. And if that dungeon rewards T2 stuff you end up with the T3 people never bothering to do it and the people who are T1 will fail so you end up with Drag me through dungeons where you have say half T3/T4 who cant get anything they need and T1s they drag along.
In the olde days some of the items on some of the earlier monsters were actually still good. Sometimes they were even tradable. The definition of hard was how many people you needed. IE you were doing the plane of fire... You had 40 people able to go -- and that was fine -- you could do the 72 person raid with 40 people. If you had 30 you would probably fail. If the raid was new to you, a full raid of 72 lesser geared people could take it down.
It wasnt so very "set" except for the hardest raids in the game where you needed 72 well-geared people or key raids where it was designed to be a problem with 72 appropriate people -- like coirnav.
At any rate in the old days it was 72 people max but you didnt need 72 people... These days you always bring the set number of people allowed... 10 person "raid" -- you arent bringing 7.
I disagree! If a game is fun and offers plenty of choices in content then there is literally years of fun and enjoyment to be had. I can attest to this because ive been playing Asherons Call since 1999 and it has never grown tired due to content, what has grown tiresome in AC is the fact that the graphics and UI are so dated it makes attracting new followers non existant.
Make plenty of content (PvE, crafting, socio-economic, grouping, soloing, PvP, exploration, political etc) that doesnt give clear advantage to one type of player and add in good graphics, great production quality, fun combat, intuitive UI and that game will blow all others away, including WoW.
This is why I'm sour of these heavy grinding raid games anymore. At least with TOR you have a different option endgame; that and I don't need ten thousand skills to do things cluttering up my UI.
I have been an avid and staunch doomsayer of ToR, mind telling me what will make it so different from WoW and its forced raiding as the sole and best source of content post level cap?
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
thanks, guy
dcuo had some great ideas. solo dungeons in particular were a brilliant way of including everyone. in fact, i think you could please everyone by having dungeons/raids scale. that way if you WANT to go in with 20, that's fine. perhaps it simply spawns larger mobs etc. at end of it, get a shiny tick on some achievement board. whatever.
i totally agree being forced into the standard trinity setup is just as bad, and 3-5 can promote that a little too much. it's a hard call, raids. i can see why developers have a hard time with it. it's hard to please everyone. it's finding the "cap", i guess. the point at which it all starts falling apart and becoming a chore and less of a challenging game.
intimacy is certainly the factor. some of my fondest memories in dungeons were those where we may have gone in one-short of the minimum and just CRAWLED through it. maybe wiped on the boss a few times, but got there in the end. just a small bunch of gamers having fun killing together.
and that's what mmos are all about, really.
If you have a solo, no trinity obviously. Duo same thing. Even trio or four-man you can give each player offensive and defensive skills (and maybe an emergency heal or two) that would make the Trinity unnecessary.
It's once you pass four people that this model begins to break down, mostly depending on game. Before then you can usually have a system of "rotation", where each class can "tank" for possibly 10 seconds before starting to go down, and someone else has to jump in while that person recovers. There isn't a tank or healer doing one thing, just everyone smartly learning how to shift aggro properly. These types of fights are things I love because it makes players get smart.
Example: In FFXI, we used to have Blackmage nuke parties, where you would take all Blackmages and one Redmage, find a hard mob and the mages would time their aoe nukes (which were stronger than solo) to hit the mob. The idea was one, two, three nuke.. sleep mob, one two, three nuke.. dead mob. This went on for hours and usually without a hitch.
Every once in awhile, the mob would invariably start chasing one BLM after that because it just lost 1/3rd of it's life and maybe the Sleep spell failed. Then the next nuke package you'd have everyone BUT the aggroed mage nuking, then the mob would shift to someone else. It was actually kind of cool to keep you on your toes. The RDM was there for mana provision and spot emergency heals, but not a "healer" role.
You can't do this type of focused play with anything bigger than four people because the mobs level has to be higher for say, 10 people. So you're looking at more instant deaths and also more confusing trying to get 10 people to rotate dps, and then stopping when they need to or they will die because there's no real healer.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Yet the shine as well as feel of that first run thru a instance or event wil always be the funner overall then mosst other runs, barring group issues or facts (that is not really apart of the pvp or pve content, since it could happen anywhere in the content.), this is why you need more and varied content in a mmo. The content's fun factor goes down hill as you play it till it is merely a means to an end. The game may not have grown tired but the content that you play to entertain yourself may have grown tired. The faster and more interesting the content is the slwoer it loses it's appeal, but if you play any game for too long it will feel redundant, for the sheer fact you feel that you have done this many times before, as stated later added content postpones this effect.
Added content is a good way to prolong the fun in a game that is what is doen now with instances, they add afew to keep you interested as you deleve into a new one leaving the oldeer ones behind. I would lvoe to see them add more features of conent into a mmo, although i am not sure it would happen till this instance-based gear grind is not popular, since adding in more features would take more money that would have to be recuped by the company.
I agree with hating the raiding gear grind, yet i like the tory aspect of raids giving you a prospective of what is hapening in the game at that point in progression. I like the ideas of tor has, yet in the end alot of people will get to level cap start the gear/progression grind as they have always. THis is merely the mind set of some players that like this stylee of play overall. I am also going to play tor till tsw comes out, since i like the setting as well as concept of tsw alot more then tor.
Tor has never said it would be different then wow, but yet it has much more areas to search, play in, story (that is personalized to the class.), as well as platary stories for those that like lore. Most of the players will go either pvp or pve raiding in mmos right now, with alot doing both, is that a bad idea or concept? Not for those that are entertained by it. I have abotu 2 months left on my rift sub yet i never log in now mostly out of being bored of the content that it has being tired for me.
Its like you go to a restaurant and look at the menu. You see an entree with broccoli. You hate broccoli but you order it anyway and you're pissed. Then your entree comes and you eat the broccoli and you hate it. Then you go home and say that restaurant sucked.
Point is, do us all a favor and pick something else on the menu. Maybe something you actually like this time. I'm burnt out on dungeons, instanced pvp, and instanced raids. So I'm Rifting, crafting, and roleplaying. I'm having a great time (shock and awe!).
If you can't find a single thing you like on the menu, then obviously its not for you. But to play an aspect of a game you hate, while there are plenty of other aspects, then blame the game? That's just....stupid?
Thing is though that it is not that you ordered an entree with brocolli -- at least not to start...
The best restaurant analogy would be...
You order steak and it has wonderful steak and that is what you order at the restaurant from level 1-49...
When you hit level 50 the restaurant announces that it will no longer serve steak.
You look at the new menu and all you see are these fancy french dishes that require a really refined pallette and are much spicier/fancier and slobbered in odd sauces that you don't like or understand.
You try eating there a few times but it doesnt taste very good to you, you end up waiting 45 minutes for your meal instead of 12 minutes and you end up still being hungry when you finish the meal.
What you really want is nice simple fare -- a good steak -- but they no longer serve steak...
So you change restaurants and bemoan that it was once a great place to eat but it doesnt cater to you anymore.
ok but here is all the ways you can get raid level gear without ever stepping foot in even a 10 man. Now tell me if you can do this in WoW:
1. Planar gear from straight Rifting <---this going to have far more T1 raid gear on this vendor then it does alreadyin 1.6
2. A crafter can make you an entire set of raid gear
3. Drops from open world raid rifts that can be done with 20 people ..not instanced
4. Master mode Darkening Deeps...harder version of the 5 man with a new boss.. <----I got 2 upgrades just this weekend myself
5. Come 1.6 rep vendors on Ember Isle will have raid gear
6. Rank 8 pvp set is on par with dps from the hardest raid in the game. This does not come easy, but neither does a full clear of Hammerknell
This is all without even stepping foot into a 10man. Then you have Drowned Halls the starter 10man which can EASILY be pugged. After which you have 10man Guilded Prohphesy which can be pug'd.
Only stuff that is hard in Rift is maybe the new 10man in 1.6 and Hammerknell. If I want to see the inside of Hammerknell I queue for a chornicle and I can see up to 3 bosses + also get a vanity mount if I am lucky.
There is a cold chance any of the above was EVER EVER EVER EVER happening in WoW EVER. So as has been stated multiple times in this thread raiding is not the main focus of Rift.
5. Come 1.6 rep vendors on Ember Isle will have raid gear
"Come WoW's next expansion.."
"Come ToR's release..."
"Come GW2's launch..." See how that works?
You can't use in an argument someone is saying that something isn't IN the game right now to do the excuse that "it's coming".
If it's not here yet it doesn't count. You can't even do it in Rift yet and you're saying you can't do it in WoW.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It is there right now. Log onto the pts. This is not where I say well coming soon. When I say 1.6 I mean 2 weeks. Since 4.2 has come out in July for WoW Rift has gotten 1.4, 1.5 and will get 1.6 all of this before 4.3 in WoW which is maybe in December from what the games own fans say.
If you look at the amount of content added compared there is no comparrison. Also that gear added to the rep vendors COME DIRECTLY from exit surveys like that OP fills out that Blizzard ignored and Trion listens too. I should know because I made this exact same specific request on my WoW exit survey and nothing ever changed.
Right this moment I can tell you the inscribed sourcestone cost so that you can go farm Rifts and by the time 1.6 comes out you can have it saved and ready to buy an entire set. Also you picked one out of 6 ways I posted to focus on ignored the other 5 which are extremely valid.
People saying that raiding is the end all be all of Rift obviously quit months ago and are simply not playing right now. I can clock some serious hours in this game without ever touching raiding.
I do believe the OP does deserve to know that Trion is listening to his request and when you make a constructive thread even we can talk about it here you know it is important.
If you look at the amount of content added compared there is no comparrison. Also that gear added to the rep vendors COME DIRECTLY from exit surveys like that OP fills out that Blizzard ignored and Trion listens too. I should know because I made this exact same specific request on my WoW exit survey and nothing ever changed.
Right this moment I can tell you the inscribed sourcestone cost so that you can go farm Rifts and by the time 1.6 comes out you can have it saved and ready to buy an entire set. Also you picked one out of 6 ways I posted to focus on ignored the other 5 which are extremely valid.
People saying that raiding is the end all be all of Rift obviously quit months ago and are simply not playing right now. I can clock some serious hours in this game without ever touching raiding.
No no.. I'm saying the person was talking about things they found in Rift NOW and previously, and you are saying "well, coming soon in 1.6". Two weeks is still two weeks meaning its not here now. You're not looking at the perspective they wrote their post in.
It's like someone going to a restaurant (to continue the theme earlier) in the summer, tasting the menu and saying it's not very good, then another patron says, "Well, you really should taste the Winter menu. It's going to be fantastic from what I read and it's coming soon."
The posters was giving reasons to why they found Rift lacking NOW. Not in two weeks. Trion could delay the patch, you have no idea. Or it could be extremely buggy as things are now with people getting disconnected all over the place.
If you're going to say WoW doesn't have it, then you have to say does Rift have it yet either? In this case, no they don't so it's probably better to talk about what they have now instead of the coming attractions.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I can honestly say Rift wasnt the problem the problem was the guild you were in, or even your raid times.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
I see your point and I want you to see mine. The OP made this thread here. I listed 5 current ways in the game right now that in WoW would be consider "ZOMG WTF WELFARE GEAR FOR CAUSALS DERPPP".
Trion realized after about patch 1.2 that taking the WoW path of raid or die was not going to work because people like the OP outnumbered hardcore raiders. Blizzard is going on 7 years and still has not realized this and it is clear as day every single patch.
I think the OP deserves to know that unlike Blizzard who says well this expansion is crap, but next expansion will be better Trion does not make you wait. He is asking for more and with 1.6 they are adding more onto what it is already there.
I swear just from my knowledge of the game people who ask for stuff on the forums ussually get it within 2 months of it being posted. it seems they work that fast. There is just so much stuff Popin that I remember asking Blizzard that they told me was not technologically possible or was too time time consuming that Trion has done every patch.
. They said itemizing 10man and 20man content would drag out content and Trion has done it
. They said separating pve and pvp damage could not be done without causing too many issues
. They said open world content was not possible because it caused to much lag
. They said the patches took so long because I knew nothing about how developing content
. They said transfers cost so much because they were manually done and they had to pay this mysterious person
. They said pets and companions could be developed faster so that is why you saw them put that on the cash shop before they put out content
This is all stuff Blizzard has told people for years until one day I got tired of hearing excuses and left.
Rift is just another raid and gear grinding mmo, if thats what you are into you may aswell just play wow because wow does that the best. i remember when trion announced this game first, well lets just say its nothing like they said it would be in the early development stages..its just another standard mmo.
I have this issue with raiding in general, working a 4 shift system totally prohibits any serious raid schedule. I managed it in vanilla wow/tbc but eventually it just burned me out.
The only way to stay interested in most raid-centric-end-game mmo's these days is to:-
Either not work (frowned upon by tax payers and the government in these austere times).
Or find a decent paying job with regular hours 8-4 ish (9-5 sucks if you're gmt and your guild is +1,+2 gmt etc, worse time diff's in the states ofc :P).
Work in a job that allows you to play from your work's pc (sackable under gross misconduct reg's in most places unless you're the MD :P).
Finding a raid guild that works around it's players' work schedules is not easy, as easy as finding like minded people in modern mmo's which sponser solo play more than social aspects. This is why I eventually stopped playing rift and wow.
I am not going to repost what I told Popin, but raiding is there and in my view it is not mandatory to enjoy the game. I mean if raiding was the only factor, then I could tell people the same thing about ToR.
Well raiding is there, so that is there main focus and the only thing to do. Does this mean it is true?
Rift is exactly what they described it to be. Anyone who was surprised at what Rift turned out to be didn't bother reading the feature lists.
I'm not big on raiding, so I was pretty sure I was going to get to max level in Rift, and then move on to something else. That's exactly what happened. I spent a decent two to three months playing and then moved on.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
See but that is the hilarious part is you can get the raiding gear through methods like doing Rifts and then go into raiding. Right now there are:
1. 2 10man raids with a 3rd in 1.6
2. 3 20man raids
3. 5 20man Rift raids
4. 5 Expert rifts
You can not win for losing with some of the people on this website it seems. If they have raiding then it is a raiding game and you should not play it. If it does not have enough raiding then there is nothing to do and you should quit also.
I do not get why people keep saying these types of things on this board.