is this thread about the new direction CCP is taking EvE in or about skill points? Stop derailing the damn thread. CCP has listened to it's fanbase and publicly apologized for not spending more time with their baby, EvE, instead of their stepchildren Dust and WoD.
For all of you crying about how you can't have fun w/o a high amount of sp, I disagree. Must we have this discussion every week? As Malcanis has stated, along with others, sp has a diminishing return. If you max small hybrids to V..that's good. If you max small blasters specialization to V, that's a lengthy time investment for one type of weapon platform for a 2% increase.
Are you sure you want to spend 12 days from IV to V? All of this disagreement and complaining comes down to one issue. Joining a corp. That's it. For all of you that didn't enjoy your time, felt you were marginalized, ignored, weren't given your lolly, etc it's b/c you didn't join a corp with strong leadership.
To address the point of you will become a slave to vet players...well....stay out of 0.0 and you won't have that problem. 0.0 space is full of scoundrels and if you lay down with dogs, you rise up with fleas. Everyone must pay a penance for enjoying 0.0 either as a pet or as a meat shield...that's how it is.
You are limiting your thinking by ASSUMING you can do nothing as a new player. As I've stated before, I will select a newb that has little to no MMO experience over one that does based on the fact that new players that come from hamster wheel games, have a hard time understanding why gear, sp and isk only will take you so far.
In closing, I'm not here to argue about sp, but to the new guy who is trying EvE for the sixth time, maybe you should approach the game differently...try finding a corp that has a direction you like and try keeping your trap shut. It's hard to receive when you are transmitting....
Good luck.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
Originally posted by Grand_LC I do find it kinda funny that so many of the EVE players disagree with gimmesome, while basically proving his point with their posts in this thread.
Can you be more specific about that one?
Because I dot see how "You can do plenty of stuff since day one" in any way proving "You can't do much unless you spend 4 months of training".
Originally posted by Loktofeit EVE lacks the great big DING and fireworks of a level up, and maybe that's what it needs in some way. I'm being serious, btw.
EVE Online was specifically designed to shift from this pattern as CCP wanted to produce a game that will not compete directly with main stream. It turned out to be successful approach for CCP so why do you think they should make a 180° turn now?
Imo, this is a past and/or works for different region market.
Production costs go up, market competition is harder each year, market is getting saturated, every investment is becoming riskier and producers have adapted.
Console and PC video games markets are basically merging, and not only due decreased technical limitations. MMO market is no exception of this trend, the demand for 'virtual worlds' is replaced by demand for casual gaming experience. There is a clear sign of effort trying to fulfill this demand and adaption to new conditions - WoW numerous tweaks and features to make the game more accessible, release of 'lobby games' like Global Agenda or World of Tanks, etc. That is where the future for new MMO projects is.
DING and fireworks are straws how to keep an interest of players on games with old game design that isn't suited for current audience.
Despite I see no new direction of EVE development being taken, in regards to what I said above, EVE Online can offer great potential but also has great limitations.
EVE lacks the great big DING and fireworks of a level up, and maybe that's what it needs in some way. I'm being serious, btw.
EVE Online was specifically designed to shift from this pattern as CCP wanted to produce a game that will not compete directly with main stream. It turned out to be successful approach for CCP so why do you think they should make a 180° turn now?
...
Laying off 20% of your staff is usually a good warning sign that what you are doing, isn't working. Not som much a 180 they need to do, more like a 45 to keep the company afloat.
EVE lacks the great big DING and fireworks of a level up, and maybe that's what it needs in some way. I'm being serious, btw.
EVE Online was specifically designed to shift from this pattern as CCP wanted to produce a game that will not compete directly with main stream. It turned out to be successful approach for CCP so why do you think they should make a 180° turn now?
...
Laying off 20% of your staff is usually a good warning sign that what you are doing, isn't working. Not som much a 180 they need to do, more like a 45 to keep the company afloat.
Or it is a sign that the economy is in a shambles. It is curious how many people ignore that the economy has been in the tank since Palin was selected as McCain's running mate and it was obvious that Obama was going to win the election.
In this economy, do they really want to risk further alienating their current customerbase so they can attract players that tend to ding-ding-ding-hop to the next game?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
EVE lacks the great big DING and fireworks of a level up, and maybe that's what it needs in some way. I'm being serious, btw.
EVE Online was specifically designed to shift from this pattern as CCP wanted to produce a game that will not compete directly with main stream. It turned out to be successful approach for CCP so why do you think they should make a 180° turn now?
...
Laying off 20% of your staff is usually a good warning sign that what you are doing, isn't working. Not som much a 180 they need to do, more like a 45 to keep the company afloat.
which is pretty much exactly what they have just done.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
If you don't plan on playing EVE forever, (atleast for many years) then, there's almost no reason to play at all. The learning curve and progression system is based on a system that rewards players only after spending a certain amount of time progressing. Once that point has been reached, the game offers vast and in depth economy, and space battles of epic proportion. To be a substantial part in any of that, and not just a 'slave' to the controlling forces, you will be required to put in years of time and experience into the game, considering the minimal skillpoints prefered, as well as general knowledge of the game universe, AND a formidible reputation. These things combined are fantastic displays of a living community, however, unfortunately it simply takes large amounts of time (months/years) to reach that point. So, if you are just looking for some space fun, I'm affraid this game might not cut it. It takes a stern commitment and serious approach to gain any notable gratification in EVE.
In regards to the "new direction" CCP has taken, that direction was away from space and ships and towards aesthetics and and superficial features that don't effect gameplay AT ALL, while not putting much time and effort into improving the actual gameplay, and addressing unfinished features from expansions before (which, are still left unfinished) -- They have appologized for this, and backtracked their development, refocusing supposedly on the features the players want addressed. They fired 20% of their staff, and redirected resources to the upcoming console(PS3-ONLY) title Dust 514. In addition, their upcoming expansion peice focuses on capital ship balances (things you will not see or have anything to do with for at least a year of progression, as well as support from a large corporation(guild) or alliance that will help you fund, fuel, protect, and maintain such ships) -- The new player won't be directly effected by any of the changes short of the artistic updates such as engine and turret effects.
Please keep in mind the seriousness of how long it will take to partake in anything substantial in this game. It is no joke.
Also, again, if you do not plan on playing EVE for many years, it serves almost no purpose to play at all.
This is my biggest problem with EVE. The cost of entry into the real game in EVE is just too damned high. I know the hardcore EVE preople like it this way, and I can't say I blame them, but for CCP this must be costing them a lot of new subscribers. Hell it's bad enough jumping into older games like LOTRO, and you can't find a single person to do you epic story or class quests with. I can't even imagine looking at EVE and deciding to put a year or two into grindhouse playing before I even get a tiny glimpse of the best parts the game has to offer.
I respect it for what it is though, and I congratulate CCP for building this monument to originality in gaming. As much as I would love to jump in and play it, I just can't justify it.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I know a few people including myself that jumped into the game a few months ago, and it is eminently accessable if you take a few days to learn the ropes. It's a great game, dont believe the doomsayers that it is terrible for new players, its exciting for new players. I only play a couple hours every other night, whats to justify? go for it
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Re poor returns because of low skills, vets posting here are basing their opinions on their view. Take mining, if it is your thing then the fact the returns are crap to start with is fine- because it is then satisfying to see the yield improve as skills improve. Also new players are not aiming for x million isk per hour, again it is relative to their experience.
The new player is looking at the fact that they're in a crappy ship. The new player is seeing folks flying around in groups and devouring belts. So yes, they are looking at how they can make X ISK/hour. Some of them beg. They're hunted down my suicide alts.
Speaking of suicide alts... I really miss those Kestrel days, lol.
When I started out, I did not feel that need to rush. Hell, I never felt it in all the time I played. It is likely one of the reasons that I played as much as I did.
Look around at the number of threads discussing game speed in other games. There are those of us complaining it is too fast - there are those of them complaining it is still too slow.
EVE definitely appeals to certain players.
Folks should not be trying to sell the game to the players that it will not appeal to...dishonesty in advertising sucks.
Exactly! I'm not saying that EVE vets are trying to fool the potential players on purpose, but the vet point of view is just so skewed. A new player won't see things the same way at all.
A new player doesn't have the skills (IRL) as a vet, a new player doesn't have the isk to maximize the ship's efficiency, a new player doesn't have the social connections to help make the time fly by more quickly. Everything is new and confusing to the new player in EVE. The tutorial helps a lot, but it doesn't really do anything about the stuff I listed above.
The fact is, people who've played any other MMO on the market needs to feel some kind of achievement, and that's simply lacking bigtime for a new player. In other games they got level ups, new gear, new skills etc. making them feel like they're getting better fast. In reality they're still newbies, but the feeling of achievement is there. Raising a skill in EVE making you a tiny bit better at using.. shields or whatever simply doesn't FEEL like advancing in any meaningful way. It's not like you can suddenly handle everything in "newbie land" with a lot less effort.
I actually agree with Bladestorm on the higher "levels" being more satisfying because of the slow and boring start, but that doesn't help the new player being bored at all. The game needs to grab the attention of the new player if you want him to stick around for years. Saying it will be better in a year won't make most new players hang around for that long.
I do find it kinda funny that so many of the EVE players disagree with gimmesome, while basically proving his point with their posts in this thread.
Can you be more specific about that one?
Because I dot see how "You can do plenty of stuff since day one" in any way proving "You can't do much unless you spend 4 months of training".
gimmesome was saying that new players should be willing to spend a lot of time on EVE, and the vets basically say the same thing. The vets don't seem to see the 4 months or whatever as a long time, but IT IS to most non-EVE players, so while the vets were probably trying to disagree (and they did in their own mind.) it sounds like an agreement to anyone NOT used to EVE-times.
Most people today are used to be raiding etc. within 4 months if they put any sort of effort into their game. Unfortunately, effort is irrelevant in EVE.
It's not about it some day becoming worth it to the average gamer. It's about having fun while you advance, and being stuck in a frigate you had since "level 1" is just not fun to new players. There's no feeling of any meaningful advancement or achievement simply getting 10% better with a shield or whatever.
While I agree that you CAN do plenty of stuff from day one, most of it is boring as hell, because your skills and gear are laughable and will result in spending a lot of time doing something that basically doesn't get you anywhere. To me, one of the biggest "flaws" of EVE is that time spent ingame is pretty much irrelevant. I am not a casual gamer, but EVE basically forced me to be, as there's no point in me playing it when I can't do a thing to advance faster. In theory it may sound awesome being able to spend a lot of time ingame, but in reality it just meant I could grind isk for longer, which doesn't make it anymore fun, and it didn't really matter as the skill training didn't become any faster. I simply got more frustrated as I had to deal with no progression all day long instead.
I eventually made it into a Myrm and that was great.. But after I flew around in that for a bit, I realized I was simply burned out already and ended up quitting the game shortly after getting it.
I like the idea of EVE and I love the ships, the space etc. but the game just isn't fun as a new player once the initial awe wears off. Getting into a Myrm didn't change the fact that I couldn't do a damn thing to get anywhere. Now I was just able to fly around doing nothing in a bigger ship than before, and the training times just got even longer. And it's not like I could simply go mining or whatever for a changeof pace, as my mining skills had suffered from me focusing on combat ships, weapons, drones and other ship gear.
It might help if you have IRL friends playing the game or something like that I guess. It might make the waiting game less frustrating. Most people don't have that though, and you can't expect anything from most of the EVE community. Not even an answer. There are some great people in EVE obviously, but they seem to be a tiny minority, and they obviously can't help every newbie in the world if they want to enjoy the game themselves, so I don't blame them at all.
On the other hand EVE also has some of the biggest a-holes, I've ever met in gaming. People who will "scam" you, lie to you hoping that you will get your ship blown up by following their advice, people who will try to sell you junk for a fortune etc. :P
Gimmesome dinged the general realm of New Eden but that's only true if you are in EVE for the political aspects. It's all controlled by Beta corps, always has been. Actually, the chances of anyone just starting EVE today breaking in to that beta only crowd that move alliances is slim to none.
As for the "New Direction". So far it has been the same circle jerk it always is. Swing the nerf bat, bring in some new prenerfed content and get back to whatever it is they do between nerfings.
Originally posted by Grand_LCgimmesome was saying that new players should be willing to spend a lot of time on EVE, and the vets basically say the same thing. ...Most people today are used to be raiding etc. within 4 months if they put any sort of effort into their game. Unfortunately, effort is irrelevant in EVE....While I agree that you CAN do plenty of stuff from day one, most of it is boring as hell, because your skills and gear are laughable and will result in spending a lot of time doing something that basically doesn't get you anywhere.
Provide quotes please because I do not see any such 'vets'.
Effort is many but irrelevant in EVE. The difference from other games is that this effort isn't measured in hours but 'quality'. In EVE, what matters is how you spend your game time, not how much of it. This is very core of EVE's design.
Did you check my post with 3 random examples of new character achievements? Do you think no effort to make it was put in and the achievements were laughable?
There needs to be cleared out two things:
1) Game mechanics and design 2) Subjective perception
Regarding 1), whole your post is wrong because what you say is not how EVE works. Regarding 2), you might got wrong impression about the game mechanics and design due various reasons.
Not everyone will like the game, that is natural and fine but saying that new players have nothing meaningful to achieve is simply wrong, it is subjective perception only - YOU could not achieve anything meaningful.
Just because you had some game experience does not mean everyone else has the same, the game isn't designed that way.
That's the 'issue' with EVE, the game design is so different from other games. There is no one and only way to play the game. There is no 'progression', no 'advancement', no path to follow, bigger ships won't allow you to do more than small ones, they are not better. This takes time to learn and understand, the game is complex and uncommon.
That is were probably most EVE folk tell you to join a corporation. Not because of any material advantage corporation could aid you but provided information.
Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning.
Sorry if my post sounds unfriendly or harsh, it is not meant to, I am just trying to get to a point in straightest way.
On the opposite, I encourage anyone who has none or bad experience with the game to try out the trial. And not only one but couple of them. Play each trial differently, try out different things, different places, different ways, different jobs.
Only when you learn, you can exploit gained knowledge, the most valuable asset you might have in EVE Online.
gimmesome was saying that new players should be willing to spend a lot of time on EVE, and the vets basically say the same thing.
...
Most people today are used to be raiding etc. within 4 months if they put any sort of effort into their game. Unfortunately, effort is irrelevant in EVE.
...
While I agree that you CAN do plenty of stuff from day one, most of it is boring as hell, because your skills and gear are laughable and will result in spending a lot of time doing something that basically doesn't get you anywhere.
Provide quotes please because I do not see any such 'vets'.
Effort is many but irrelevant in EVE. The difference from other games is that this effort isn't measured in hours but 'quality'. In EVE, what matters is how you spend your game time, not how much of it. This is very core of EVE's design.
Did you check my post with 3 random examples of new character achievements? Do you think no effort to make it was put in and the achievements were laughable?
There needs to be cleared out two things:
1) Game mechanics and design
2) Subjective perception
Regarding 1), whole your post is wrong because what you say is not how EVE works.
Regarding 2), you might got wrong impression about the game mechanics and design due various reasons.
Not everyone will like the game, that is natural and fine but saying that new players have nothing meaningful to achieve is simply wrong, it is subjective perception only - YOU could not achieve anything meaningful.
Just because you had some game experience does not mean everyone else has the same, the game isn't designed that way.
That's the 'issue' with EVE, the game design is so different from other games. There is no one and only way to play the game. There is no 'progression', no 'advancement', no path to follow, bigger ships won't allow you to do more than small ones, they are not better. This takes time to learn and understand, the game is complex and uncommon.
That is were probably most EVE folk tell you to join a corporation. Not because of any material advantage corporation could aid you but provided information.
Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning.
Sorry if my post sounds unfriendly or harsh, it is not meant to, I am just trying to get to a point in straightest way.
On the opposite, I encourage anyone who has none or bad experience with the game to try out the trial. And not only one but couple of them. Play each trial differently, try out different things, different places, different ways, different jobs.
Only when you learn, you can exploit gained knowledge, the most valuable asset you might have in EVE Online.
Fly safe.
Once again you prove the original point the OP was stating. Eve should be fun, not a second job. You don't sound harsh, you sound like part of the problem. The root problem is 'Eve is Real' rather then 'Eve is a game' and that delusion may just sink Eve.
gimmesome was saying that new players should be willing to spend a lot of time on EVE, and the vets basically say the same thing.
...
Most people today are used to be raiding etc. within 4 months if they put any sort of effort into their game. Unfortunately, effort is irrelevant in EVE.
...
While I agree that you CAN do plenty of stuff from day one, most of it is boring as hell, because your skills and gear are laughable and will result in spending a lot of time doing something that basically doesn't get you anywhere.
Provide quotes please because I do not see any such 'vets'.
Effort is many but irrelevant in EVE. The difference from other games is that this effort isn't measured in hours but 'quality'. In EVE, what matters is how you spend your game time, not how much of it. This is very core of EVE's design.
Did you check my post with 3 random examples of new character achievements? Do you think no effort to make it was put in and the achievements were laughable?
There needs to be cleared out two things:
1) Game mechanics and design
2) Subjective perception
Regarding 1), whole your post is wrong because what you say is not how EVE works.
Regarding 2), you might got wrong impression about the game mechanics and design due various reasons.
Not everyone will like the game, that is natural and fine but saying that new players have nothing meaningful to achieve is simply wrong, it is subjective perception only - YOU could not achieve anything meaningful.
Just because you had some game experience does not mean everyone else has the same, the game isn't designed that way.
That's the 'issue' with EVE, the game design is so different from other games. There is no one and only way to play the game. There is no 'progression', no 'advancement', no path to follow, bigger ships won't allow you to do more than small ones, they are not better. This takes time to learn and understand, the game is complex and uncommon.
That is were probably most EVE folk tell you to join a corporation. Not because of any material advantage corporation could aid you but provided information.
Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning.
Sorry if my post sounds unfriendly or harsh, it is not meant to, I am just trying to get to a point in straightest way.
On the opposite, I encourage anyone who has none or bad experience with the game to try out the trial. And not only one but couple of them. Play each trial differently, try out different things, different places, different ways, different jobs.
Only when you learn, you can exploit gained knowledge, the most valuable asset you might have in EVE Online.
Fly safe.
Once again you prove the original point the OP was stating. Eve should be fun, not a second job. You don't sound harsh, you sound like part of the problem. The root problem is 'Eve is Real' rather then 'Eve is a game' and that delusion may just sink Eve.
It's not a second job.
It's not hard to learn.
If it feels like a second job its because you're making it one.
It's easy.
Step 1: Logon on to EVE.
Step 2: Decide what you want to do that day.
Step 3: If you're doing it and its boring you, ask yourself why you're doing it or if maybe you're doing something wrong.
Step 4: Continue on course or alter behavior so that the activity becomes interesting.
Example:
Step 1: I've logged on to EVE.
Step 2: I want to mine today.
Step 3: This is boring. Why? Mining in high sec is just an endless cycle of collecting rocks and returning to reprocess and sell them/use them for production. Perhaps I could mine in lowsec/null for better resources, more risk, more isk, but I might get blown up. This doesn't bother me because I'm not a bitch who cries everytime I lose a ship. The danger will add excitement to the task.
Step 4: Mines in lowsec. Gets blown up by pirates or evades them, maybe nothing happens, makes more isk, either way it was more interesting than just mining veldspar in high.
Example 2:
Step 1: I've logged on to EVE.
Step 2: I want to be a "badass" space pirate.
Step 3: This is boring/frustrating. I can't find any targets or my supposedly awesome Rifter is constantly being blown up by other players.
Step 3.5: Cry about this on the forums and call it a game flaw. Everyone else goes to step 4.
Step 4: Realize that you are in fact at a disadvantage in most 1v1 scenarios and it'll be some time before that is going to change. You are a complete noob, still in the starter npc corp, and alone without much money. Go into corp chat and ask if anyone wants to go on a T1 frig roam with you through low/null. Assemble a fleet. Go fight. You'll probably even win some, you'll be socializing, and you'll make friends maybe get contacts of potential corps to join.
"It's not about it some day becoming worth it to the average gamer. It's about having fun while you advance, and being stuck in a frigate you had since "level 1" is just not fun to new players. There's no feeling of any meaningful advancement or achievement simply getting 10% better with a shield or whatever."
Yeah, I think this should be point of any game - to have fun while advancing.
"It's not about it some day becoming worth it to the average gamer. It's about having fun while you advance, and being stuck in a frigate you had since "level 1" is just not fun to new players. There's no feeling of any meaningful advancement or achievement simply getting 10% better with a shield or whatever."
Yeah, I think this should be point of any game - to have fun while advancing.
And fun is subjective. Which is obvious with EVE - some people have a blast doing things that others think are tedious. It's obvious in most games. The forums here are riddled with those didactic arguments between people, as if they're going to convince the other person that is having fun that they should not be or that the person not having fun should be...
...people like different things.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
"It's not about it some day becoming worth it to the average gamer. It's about having fun while you advance, and being stuck in a frigate you had since "level 1" is just not fun to new players. There's no feeling of any meaningful advancement or achievement simply getting 10% better with a shield or whatever."
Yeah, I think this should be point of any game - to have fun while advancing.
And fun is subjective. Which is obvious with EVE - some people have a blast doing things that others think are tedious. It's obvious in most games. The forums here are riddled with those didactic arguments between people, as if they're going to convince the other person that is having fun that they should not be or that the person not having fun should be...
...people like different things.
agreed and thats what makes eve one of the rare sandboxes out there
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
If anyone cares I have subbed and am having a wonderful time. I will seek out a corporation eventually but for time being I am flying solo to get a handle on the game.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
No, silly though, for a game where what you look like is even noticed .05 % of the time by even yourself.
This is the new direction a lot of people are referencing. Walking In Stations intends to add a social aspect to the game that it's never had before. With player owned stores, some forms of gambling, and corp meeting rooms with various features intended to bring a bit more 'realism' to the game.
Provide quotes please because I do not see any such 'vets'.
Effort is many but irrelevant in EVE. The difference from other games is that this effort isn't measured in hours but 'quality'. In EVE, what matters is how you spend your game time, not how much of it. This is very core of EVE's design.
Did you check my post with 3 random examples of new character achievements? Do you think no effort to make it was put in and the achievements were laughable?
There needs to be cleared out two things:
1) Game mechanics and design
2) Subjective perception
Regarding 1), whole your post is wrong because what you say is not how EVE works.
Regarding 2), you might got wrong impression about the game mechanics and design due various reasons.
Not everyone will like the game, that is natural and fine but saying that new players have nothing meaningful to achieve is simply wrong, it is subjective perception only - YOU could not achieve anything meaningful.
Just because you had some game experience does not mean everyone else has the same, the game isn't designed that way.
That's the 'issue' with EVE, the game design is so different from other games. There is no one and only way to play the game. There is no 'progression', no 'advancement', no path to follow, bigger ships won't allow you to do more than small ones, they are not better. This takes time to learn and understand, the game is complex and uncommon.
That is were probably most EVE folk tell you to join a corporation. Not because of any material advantage corporation could aid you but provided information.
Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning.
Sorry if my post sounds unfriendly or harsh, it is not meant to, I am just trying to get to a point in straightest way.
On the opposite, I encourage anyone who has none or bad experience with the game to try out the trial. And not only one but couple of them. Play each trial differently, try out different things, different places, different ways, different jobs.
Only when you learn, you can exploit gained knowledge, the most valuable asset you might have in EVE Online.
Fly safe.
You don't sound harsh. Or maybe you do and I just don't care.. Who knows.
My point about effort was compared to other MMOs out there. Take Vanguard, WoW, EQ, AC, AO... Whatever.. If you put time and effort into it, you will level fast and soon you'll be able to join the high levels and have some fun with them. If you're a casual player, you will level slower but you'll get there eventually.
In EVE there's no real difference. A hardcore MMO'er being new in EVE doesn't really advance any faster than a casual EVE-newbie no matter how much time he's willing to put into the game. Sure, he can mine more per day (If he trained that as a lowbie) or grind more ISK (which is basically nothing at "low levels".) but he can't do anything to advance even if he spends 16 hours a day ingame. Being "hardcore" and EVE-newbie at the same time is like the ultimate frustation.. It's just a waiting game.
Of course fun is subjective and so is "a long time", and that's exactly why gimmesome's posts were great. You admit, that EVE isn't for everyone, but that's not what you guys (assuming you're a vet.) are telling players asking about EVE in general. Other people have also posted about being able to catch up with "high levels" in a single ship type after a few months, so that's why I said, they basically proved gimmesome's point about EVE requiring a lot of time. A couple of months = ages, when you compared it to other games on the market, and in EVE it's nothing. You're still nowhere near "high levels" (Except maybe in frigate if you focus 100% on that.)
"Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning."
Which is why I'm gonna have to agree with Idgarad's reply to you. "The root problem is 'Eve is Real' rather then 'Eve is a game'"
Learning can be great fun.. In other games. In EVE it's just about reading guides etc. It seems like a lot of what makes you better in EVE is achieved by not actively playing the game, or like another person said, by watching movies, reading a book etc.
There's absolutely no reason why being new in EVE should be such a snore fest. They could make it fun, give newbies more opportunites to fool around in safety while learning the mechanics, encourage lowbie groups by making some "hard" encounters that give awesome loot (Not like newbie-awesome loot breaks any balance as it's still crap to everyone else.), make a new and decent lowbie mining barge that a newbie can get into within a day or so, so newbies can actually try that aspect of the game before deciding their "path", remove the ridiculous war dec. feature that new player complain about all the time, when their lowbie corp. instantly gets a war dec. by bored semi-vets.
It's like they decided to make things as hard as possible for the new players, and that's exactly why so many people have tried EVE and never really made it past newbie-levels. If you want free trials and other newbies to stick around, you vets. should not try to BS players asking about the game. If they expect something that ends up being a lie, they will get even more frustrated. The BS answers might make new players try the trial, but it does not make them stay.
And while I know that some people are simply a-holes, and that we can't change the entire world, that doesn't help the problem either. A vet. knows that losing a ship doesn't really matter too much in the long run, but the newbie doesn't. In my time in EVE, I saw plenty of lowbies complain in frustration, because they were exploring and "accidently" went to a lowsec. It feels like a big loss to them when they're new. I was lucky enough to avoid that problem myself as a newbie thankfully, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise with the poor people who run into the retarded part of the EVE community on the other side of a gate.
Most of the EVE players I met in my time there simply made the experience even more frustrating for the newbies. They won't answer questions (Or if they do, it's complete BS.), they don't want new players anywhere near their corps, they blow them up (even though they get nothing to show for it.) etc. Excluding the kiddie games of today (ie. WoW, Rift etc.) EVE probably has the worst community in general, that I have ever experienced in a MMO, and I have played 20+ p2p games + a number of shitty f2p.
Obviously, there are great people in EVE as well, but they're a tiny minority. A new player may enjoy mining in his starter frigate I suppose (?). A new player may find the 1 laser beam per sec. amazingly fun combat I guess.
But don't try to make it out like it's going to be any huge group of new players who are like that. I don't get why vets. aren't the ones asking the devs. to make the starting experience better instead of just misleading people on forums. The new player is going to realize that the forum answers were a complete lie once they get ingame anyway.
My point about effort was compared to other MMOs out there. Take Vanguard, WoW, EQ, AC, AO... Whatever.. If you put time and effort into it, you will level fast and soon you'll be able to join the high levels and have some fun with them. If you're a casual player, you will level slower but you'll get there eventually.
In EVE there's no real difference. A hardcore MMO'er being new in EVE doesn't really advance any faster than a casual EVE-newbie no matter how much time he's willing to put into the game. Sure, he can mine more per day (If he trained that as a lowbie) or grind more ISK (which is basically nothing at "low levels".) but he can't do anything to advance even if he spends 16 hours a day ingame. Being "hardcore" and EVE-newbie at the same time is like the ultimate frustation.. It's just a waiting game.
That argument does not take int account social connections, learning speed and the ability to apply what one has learned. You are working on the false assumption that EVE works like most other MMOs where advancement, progression and success are
1) primarily dictated by stats
2) solely combat centric
Ingenuity, social engineering, charisma and stretegic thinking are skills that carry far more weight in EVE than the stats themselves.
You also are working on the horribly false assumption that all people learn at the same speed, have the same ethics and are equally intelligent, wise or clever.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That argument does not take int account social connections, learning speed and the ability to apply what one has learned. You are working on the false assumption that EVE works like most other MMOs where advancement, progression and success are
1) primarily dictated by stats
2) solely combat centric
Ingenuity, social engineering, charisma and stretegic thinking are skills that carry far more weight in EVE than the stats themselves.
You also are working on the horribly false assumption that all people learn at the same speed, have the same ethics and are equally intelligent, wise or clever.
We're talking about new players here. What social connections? Most EVE players won't even answer their newbie questions, so building any sort of social connections can take a while.
Like I said earlier, I made it into a myrm, so it's not like I'm just a totally clueless free trial player. I was the only one (of the other newbies I met during my newbie days) who actually stayed and made it past the worst stage, but when I finally got my myrm, I just realized I simply couldn't take anymore. The "worst stage" had simply taken its toll.
I am well aware, that EVE isn't about stats and that combat isn't everything, but it's not like it's the most immersive crafting system on the market either. lol Or that mining in a frig is going to be that amazing.
I'm just pointing out things that EVE vets./players generally don't mention at all, when people come here asking questions. When a potential EVE-newbie asks about something, suddenly the players make it sound like EVE IS for everyone, like EVE doesn't take much time, like it's all awesome space battles etc. The answers are generally extremely misleading to outsiders imo.
I am not working on a false assumption as I have played the game. I am working on the assumption that people thinking about trying out EVE doesn't know anything about the game. It's not MY assumption that EVE is like other MMOs, but other MMOs are all most non-EVE'ers will have to relate to. They may come from WoW, EQ2 or whatever, so while this is in space, they're likely to assume that there are still a lot of similarities, as most other MMOs share a lot of things even if the games themselves are very different.
Comments
is this thread about the new direction CCP is taking EvE in or about skill points? Stop derailing the damn thread. CCP has listened to it's fanbase and publicly apologized for not spending more time with their baby, EvE, instead of their stepchildren Dust and WoD.
For all of you crying about how you can't have fun w/o a high amount of sp, I disagree. Must we have this discussion every week? As Malcanis has stated, along with others, sp has a diminishing return. If you max small hybrids to V..that's good. If you max small blasters specialization to V, that's a lengthy time investment for one type of weapon platform for a 2% increase.
Are you sure you want to spend 12 days from IV to V? All of this disagreement and complaining comes down to one issue. Joining a corp. That's it. For all of you that didn't enjoy your time, felt you were marginalized, ignored, weren't given your lolly, etc it's b/c you didn't join a corp with strong leadership.
To address the point of you will become a slave to vet players...well....stay out of 0.0 and you won't have that problem. 0.0 space is full of scoundrels and if you lay down with dogs, you rise up with fleas. Everyone must pay a penance for enjoying 0.0 either as a pet or as a meat shield...that's how it is.
You are limiting your thinking by ASSUMING you can do nothing as a new player. As I've stated before, I will select a newb that has little to no MMO experience over one that does based on the fact that new players that come from hamster wheel games, have a hard time understanding why gear, sp and isk only will take you so far.
In closing, I'm not here to argue about sp, but to the new guy who is trying EvE for the sixth time, maybe you should approach the game differently...try finding a corp that has a direction you like and try keeping your trap shut. It's hard to receive when you are transmitting....
Good luck.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Can you be more specific about that one?
Because I dot see how "You can do plenty of stuff since day one" in any way proving "You can't do much unless you spend 4 months of training".
EVE Online was specifically designed to shift from this pattern as CCP wanted to produce a game that will not compete directly with main stream. It turned out to be successful approach for CCP so why do you think they should make a 180° turn now?
Imo, this is a past and/or works for different region market.
Production costs go up, market competition is harder each year, market is getting saturated, every investment is becoming riskier and producers have adapted.
Console and PC video games markets are basically merging, and not only due decreased technical limitations. MMO market is no exception of this trend, the demand for 'virtual worlds' is replaced by demand for casual gaming experience. There is a clear sign of effort trying to fulfill this demand and adaption to new conditions - WoW numerous tweaks and features to make the game more accessible, release of 'lobby games' like Global Agenda or World of Tanks, etc. That is where the future for new MMO projects is.
DING and fireworks are straws how to keep an interest of players on games with old game design that isn't suited for current audience.
Despite I see no new direction of EVE development being taken, in regards to what I said above, EVE Online can offer great potential but also has great limitations.
Laying off 20% of your staff is usually a good warning sign that what you are doing, isn't working. Not som much a 180 they need to do, more like a 45 to keep the company afloat.
Or it is a sign that the economy is in a shambles. It is curious how many people ignore that the economy has been in the tank since Palin was selected as McCain's running mate and it was obvious that Obama was going to win the election.
In this economy, do they really want to risk further alienating their current customerbase so they can attract players that tend to ding-ding-ding-hop to the next game?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
which is pretty much exactly what they have just done.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
This is my biggest problem with EVE. The cost of entry into the real game in EVE is just too damned high. I know the hardcore EVE preople like it this way, and I can't say I blame them, but for CCP this must be costing them a lot of new subscribers. Hell it's bad enough jumping into older games like LOTRO, and you can't find a single person to do you epic story or class quests with. I can't even imagine looking at EVE and deciding to put a year or two into grindhouse playing before I even get a tiny glimpse of the best parts the game has to offer.
I respect it for what it is though, and I congratulate CCP for building this monument to originality in gaming. As much as I would love to jump in and play it, I just can't justify it.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I know a few people including myself that jumped into the game a few months ago, and it is eminently accessable if you take a few days to learn the ropes. It's a great game, dont believe the doomsayers that it is terrible for new players, its exciting for new players. I only play a couple hours every other night, whats to justify? go for it
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Exactly! I'm not saying that EVE vets are trying to fool the potential players on purpose, but the vet point of view is just so skewed. A new player won't see things the same way at all.
A new player doesn't have the skills (IRL) as a vet, a new player doesn't have the isk to maximize the ship's efficiency, a new player doesn't have the social connections to help make the time fly by more quickly. Everything is new and confusing to the new player in EVE. The tutorial helps a lot, but it doesn't really do anything about the stuff I listed above.
The fact is, people who've played any other MMO on the market needs to feel some kind of achievement, and that's simply lacking bigtime for a new player. In other games they got level ups, new gear, new skills etc. making them feel like they're getting better fast. In reality they're still newbies, but the feeling of achievement is there. Raising a skill in EVE making you a tiny bit better at using.. shields or whatever simply doesn't FEEL like advancing in any meaningful way. It's not like you can suddenly handle everything in "newbie land" with a lot less effort.
I actually agree with Bladestorm on the higher "levels" being more satisfying because of the slow and boring start, but that doesn't help the new player being bored at all. The game needs to grab the attention of the new player if you want him to stick around for years. Saying it will be better in a year won't make most new players hang around for that long.
gimmesome was saying that new players should be willing to spend a lot of time on EVE, and the vets basically say the same thing. The vets don't seem to see the 4 months or whatever as a long time, but IT IS to most non-EVE players, so while the vets were probably trying to disagree (and they did in their own mind.) it sounds like an agreement to anyone NOT used to EVE-times.
Most people today are used to be raiding etc. within 4 months if they put any sort of effort into their game. Unfortunately, effort is irrelevant in EVE.
It's not about it some day becoming worth it to the average gamer. It's about having fun while you advance, and being stuck in a frigate you had since "level 1" is just not fun to new players. There's no feeling of any meaningful advancement or achievement simply getting 10% better with a shield or whatever.
While I agree that you CAN do plenty of stuff from day one, most of it is boring as hell, because your skills and gear are laughable and will result in spending a lot of time doing something that basically doesn't get you anywhere. To me, one of the biggest "flaws" of EVE is that time spent ingame is pretty much irrelevant. I am not a casual gamer, but EVE basically forced me to be, as there's no point in me playing it when I can't do a thing to advance faster. In theory it may sound awesome being able to spend a lot of time ingame, but in reality it just meant I could grind isk for longer, which doesn't make it anymore fun, and it didn't really matter as the skill training didn't become any faster. I simply got more frustrated as I had to deal with no progression all day long instead.
I eventually made it into a Myrm and that was great.. But after I flew around in that for a bit, I realized I was simply burned out already and ended up quitting the game shortly after getting it.
I like the idea of EVE and I love the ships, the space etc. but the game just isn't fun as a new player once the initial awe wears off. Getting into a Myrm didn't change the fact that I couldn't do a damn thing to get anywhere. Now I was just able to fly around doing nothing in a bigger ship than before, and the training times just got even longer. And it's not like I could simply go mining or whatever for a changeof pace, as my mining skills had suffered from me focusing on combat ships, weapons, drones and other ship gear.
It might help if you have IRL friends playing the game or something like that I guess. It might make the waiting game less frustrating. Most people don't have that though, and you can't expect anything from most of the EVE community. Not even an answer. There are some great people in EVE obviously, but they seem to be a tiny minority, and they obviously can't help every newbie in the world if they want to enjoy the game themselves, so I don't blame them at all.
On the other hand EVE also has some of the biggest a-holes, I've ever met in gaming. People who will "scam" you, lie to you hoping that you will get your ship blown up by following their advice, people who will try to sell you junk for a fortune etc. :P
Gimmesome dinged the general realm of New Eden but that's only true if you are in EVE for the political aspects. It's all controlled by Beta corps, always has been. Actually, the chances of anyone just starting EVE today breaking in to that beta only crowd that move alliances is slim to none.
As for the "New Direction". So far it has been the same circle jerk it always is. Swing the nerf bat, bring in some new prenerfed content and get back to whatever it is they do between nerfings.
Provide quotes please because I do not see any such 'vets'.
Effort is many but irrelevant in EVE. The difference from other games is that this effort isn't measured in hours but 'quality'. In EVE, what matters is how you spend your game time, not how much of it. This is very core of EVE's design.
Did you check my post with 3 random examples of new character achievements? Do you think no effort to make it was put in and the achievements were laughable?
There needs to be cleared out two things:
1) Game mechanics and design
2) Subjective perception
Regarding 1), whole your post is wrong because what you say is not how EVE works.
Regarding 2), you might got wrong impression about the game mechanics and design due various reasons.
Not everyone will like the game, that is natural and fine but saying that new players have nothing meaningful to achieve is simply wrong, it is subjective perception only - YOU could not achieve anything meaningful.
Just because you had some game experience does not mean everyone else has the same, the game isn't designed that way.
That's the 'issue' with EVE, the game design is so different from other games. There is no one and only way to play the game. There is no 'progression', no 'advancement', no path to follow, bigger ships won't allow you to do more than small ones, they are not better. This takes time to learn and understand, the game is complex and uncommon.
That is were probably most EVE folk tell you to join a corporation. Not because of any material advantage corporation could aid you but provided information.
Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning.
Sorry if my post sounds unfriendly or harsh, it is not meant to, I am just trying to get to a point in straightest way.
On the opposite, I encourage anyone who has none or bad experience with the game to try out the trial. And not only one but couple of them. Play each trial differently, try out different things, different places, different ways, different jobs.
Only when you learn, you can exploit gained knowledge, the most valuable asset you might have in EVE Online.
Fly safe.
Once again you prove the original point the OP was stating. Eve should be fun, not a second job. You don't sound harsh, you sound like part of the problem. The root problem is 'Eve is Real' rather then 'Eve is a game' and that delusion may just sink Eve.
It's not a second job.
It's not hard to learn.
If it feels like a second job its because you're making it one.
It's easy.
Step 1: Logon on to EVE.
Step 2: Decide what you want to do that day.
Step 3: If you're doing it and its boring you, ask yourself why you're doing it or if maybe you're doing something wrong.
Step 4: Continue on course or alter behavior so that the activity becomes interesting.
Example:
Step 1: I've logged on to EVE.
Step 2: I want to mine today.
Step 3: This is boring. Why? Mining in high sec is just an endless cycle of collecting rocks and returning to reprocess and sell them/use them for production. Perhaps I could mine in lowsec/null for better resources, more risk, more isk, but I might get blown up. This doesn't bother me because I'm not a bitch who cries everytime I lose a ship. The danger will add excitement to the task.
Step 4: Mines in lowsec. Gets blown up by pirates or evades them, maybe nothing happens, makes more isk, either way it was more interesting than just mining veldspar in high.
Example 2:
Step 1: I've logged on to EVE.
Step 2: I want to be a "badass" space pirate.
Step 3: This is boring/frustrating. I can't find any targets or my supposedly awesome Rifter is constantly being blown up by other players.
Step 3.5: Cry about this on the forums and call it a game flaw. Everyone else goes to step 4.
Step 4: Realize that you are in fact at a disadvantage in most 1v1 scenarios and it'll be some time before that is going to change. You are a complete noob, still in the starter npc corp, and alone without much money. Go into corp chat and ask if anyone wants to go on a T1 frig roam with you through low/null. Assemble a fleet. Go fight. You'll probably even win some, you'll be socializing, and you'll make friends maybe get contacts of potential corps to join.
It's not hard.
"It's not about it some day becoming worth it to the average gamer. It's about having fun while you advance, and being stuck in a frigate you had since "level 1" is just not fun to new players. There's no feeling of any meaningful advancement or achievement simply getting 10% better with a shield or whatever."
Yeah, I think this should be point of any game - to have fun while advancing.
Keep on rockin'!
And fun is subjective. Which is obvious with EVE - some people have a blast doing things that others think are tedious. It's obvious in most games. The forums here are riddled with those didactic arguments between people, as if they're going to convince the other person that is having fun that they should not be or that the person not having fun should be...
...people like different things.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
agreed and thats what makes eve one of the rare sandboxes out there
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
If anyone cares I have subbed and am having a wonderful time. I will seek out a corporation eventually but for time being I am flying solo to get a handle on the game.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Good luck and have fun! :-) Your countdown to bitter vet has begun hehe. I'm looking forward to any updates you wish to write.
Incidently, did you find the character bazaar yet?
No, silly though, for a game where what you look like is even noticed .05 % of the time by even yourself.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Do what?
The character bazaar is where you can buy pre-trained characters.
This is the new direction a lot of people are referencing. Walking In Stations intends to add a social aspect to the game that it's never had before. With player owned stores, some forms of gambling, and corp meeting rooms with various features intended to bring a bit more 'realism' to the game.
You don't sound harsh. Or maybe you do and I just don't care.. Who knows.
My point about effort was compared to other MMOs out there. Take Vanguard, WoW, EQ, AC, AO... Whatever.. If you put time and effort into it, you will level fast and soon you'll be able to join the high levels and have some fun with them. If you're a casual player, you will level slower but you'll get there eventually.
In EVE there's no real difference. A hardcore MMO'er being new in EVE doesn't really advance any faster than a casual EVE-newbie no matter how much time he's willing to put into the game. Sure, he can mine more per day (If he trained that as a lowbie) or grind more ISK (which is basically nothing at "low levels".) but he can't do anything to advance even if he spends 16 hours a day ingame. Being "hardcore" and EVE-newbie at the same time is like the ultimate frustation.. It's just a waiting game.
Of course fun is subjective and so is "a long time", and that's exactly why gimmesome's posts were great. You admit, that EVE isn't for everyone, but that's not what you guys (assuming you're a vet.) are telling players asking about EVE in general. Other people have also posted about being able to catch up with "high levels" in a single ship type after a few months, so that's why I said, they basically proved gimmesome's point about EVE requiring a lot of time. A couple of months = ages, when you compared it to other games on the market, and in EVE it's nothing. You're still nowhere near "high levels" (Except maybe in frigate if you focus 100% on that.)
"Effort is important in EVE. It is important to put effort into learning."
Which is why I'm gonna have to agree with Idgarad's reply to you. "The root problem is 'Eve is Real' rather then 'Eve is a game'"
Learning can be great fun.. In other games. In EVE it's just about reading guides etc. It seems like a lot of what makes you better in EVE is achieved by not actively playing the game, or like another person said, by watching movies, reading a book etc.
There's absolutely no reason why being new in EVE should be such a snore fest. They could make it fun, give newbies more opportunites to fool around in safety while learning the mechanics, encourage lowbie groups by making some "hard" encounters that give awesome loot (Not like newbie-awesome loot breaks any balance as it's still crap to everyone else.), make a new and decent lowbie mining barge that a newbie can get into within a day or so, so newbies can actually try that aspect of the game before deciding their "path", remove the ridiculous war dec. feature that new player complain about all the time, when their lowbie corp. instantly gets a war dec. by bored semi-vets.
It's like they decided to make things as hard as possible for the new players, and that's exactly why so many people have tried EVE and never really made it past newbie-levels. If you want free trials and other newbies to stick around, you vets. should not try to BS players asking about the game. If they expect something that ends up being a lie, they will get even more frustrated. The BS answers might make new players try the trial, but it does not make them stay.
And while I know that some people are simply a-holes, and that we can't change the entire world, that doesn't help the problem either. A vet. knows that losing a ship doesn't really matter too much in the long run, but the newbie doesn't. In my time in EVE, I saw plenty of lowbies complain in frustration, because they were exploring and "accidently" went to a lowsec. It feels like a big loss to them when they're new. I was lucky enough to avoid that problem myself as a newbie thankfully, but that doesn't mean I don't sympathise with the poor people who run into the retarded part of the EVE community on the other side of a gate.
Most of the EVE players I met in my time there simply made the experience even more frustrating for the newbies. They won't answer questions (Or if they do, it's complete BS.), they don't want new players anywhere near their corps, they blow them up (even though they get nothing to show for it.) etc. Excluding the kiddie games of today (ie. WoW, Rift etc.) EVE probably has the worst community in general, that I have ever experienced in a MMO, and I have played 20+ p2p games + a number of shitty f2p.
Obviously, there are great people in EVE as well, but they're a tiny minority. A new player may enjoy mining in his starter frigate I suppose (?). A new player may find the 1 laser beam per sec. amazingly fun combat I guess.
But don't try to make it out like it's going to be any huge group of new players who are like that. I don't get why vets. aren't the ones asking the devs. to make the starting experience better instead of just misleading people on forums. The new player is going to realize that the forum answers were a complete lie once they get ingame anyway.
That argument does not take int account social connections, learning speed and the ability to apply what one has learned. You are working on the false assumption that EVE works like most other MMOs where advancement, progression and success are
1) primarily dictated by stats
2) solely combat centric
Ingenuity, social engineering, charisma and stretegic thinking are skills that carry far more weight in EVE than the stats themselves.
You also are working on the horribly false assumption that all people learn at the same speed, have the same ethics and are equally intelligent, wise or clever.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
We're talking about new players here. What social connections? Most EVE players won't even answer their newbie questions, so building any sort of social connections can take a while.
Like I said earlier, I made it into a myrm, so it's not like I'm just a totally clueless free trial player. I was the only one (of the other newbies I met during my newbie days) who actually stayed and made it past the worst stage, but when I finally got my myrm, I just realized I simply couldn't take anymore. The "worst stage" had simply taken its toll.
I am well aware, that EVE isn't about stats and that combat isn't everything, but it's not like it's the most immersive crafting system on the market either. lol Or that mining in a frig is going to be that amazing.
I'm just pointing out things that EVE vets./players generally don't mention at all, when people come here asking questions. When a potential EVE-newbie asks about something, suddenly the players make it sound like EVE IS for everyone, like EVE doesn't take much time, like it's all awesome space battles etc. The answers are generally extremely misleading to outsiders imo.
I am not working on a false assumption as I have played the game. I am working on the assumption that people thinking about trying out EVE doesn't know anything about the game. It's not MY assumption that EVE is like other MMOs, but other MMOs are all most non-EVE'ers will have to relate to. They may come from WoW, EQ2 or whatever, so while this is in space, they're likely to assume that there are still a lot of similarities, as most other MMOs share a lot of things even if the games themselves are very different.