"By utilizing a subscription model, players are forced into paying for the game/expansion and hoping that it will be good, meeting their expectations."
Hey SOE, there's a way a developer can pull off such a revenue model with great success. It's called making a good game.
To those saying the "only difference" will be that there are more people to group with, I say, "lol." We paying customers wanted nothing to do with the free players. Now every server is just going to be an annoying troll factory of low level stupidly named players (who, as I said before, don't take the game or their characters seriously) complaining and inciting arguments in every chat channel they can.
To those saying the "only difference" will be that there are more people to group with, I say, "lol." We paying customers wanted nothing to do with the free players. Now every server is just going to be an annoying troll factory of low level stupidly named players (who, as I said before, don't take the game or their characters seriously) complaining and inciting arguments in every chat channel they can.
Ignorant elitest nonsense.
I have been with CoH through it's move to F2P, keeping my sub, and if anything the Freebs/ Premiums I have encountered are better mannered and more open and friendly then the vets.
In fact, your very post here underlines my point... it is hostile and rude, pretty much qualifying for product from the 'troll factory' and certainly exists to incite argument.
If this is a measure of your community, I have no idea what freebs could do to make it any worse.
The game servers won't even be able to handle any influx of Free players.
I see servers, like Antonia Bayle, going to be a crashing lagfest.
Just have a look at DCUO. It's a total shambles for over 10 days now! The EU PC server has been totally unplayable ever since it went F2P ! And every hotfix they put out so far has made matters worse! Since last hotfix NOTHING works anymore ingame. LOL!
You can bet the same is going to happen when this game goes fully F2P!
This game is dying. They even charge FULL price for the upcoming expansion, that's even remotely not an expansion, with NO content added!
SOE has lost it completely! They are losing SWG! Vanguard on the brinck of death (especially now the remaining players have come to realise NOTHING is coming at all! All lies!), EverQuest 2 losing players faster than ever (especially since the last dissaster Game Update)
The only game they have left that is still doing decently, is EverQuest 1. But it's just becoming a very old game nearing the end of it's life as well.
Sorry to say (and I hate to say it), but I see another large round of lay offs and studio closures @ SOE coming up next year!
Planet Side 2, EQ:Next ...... I really wonder they will even make it to launch. :-/
It has had a cash shop that was and is largely based on other free to play games. This cash shop will also be the main source of revenue generation from the incoming free to play population. EQ2 has been a subscription game that also has a f2p style cash shop.
Please enlighten as to where my reading comprehension failed?
a 'f2p style cash shop' is a pay to win cash shop. Eq2's cash shop is fluff.
It is absolutely NOTHING like what you would see from perfect world and FoM style games. Those games require you to use the cash shop in excessive quantities for you to be able to attempt higher level content.
And the main source of revenue form the incoming f2p population will be when they convert to subs.
Oh interesting, here is an mmo that I've never tried going F2P. Of course I said this for Lotro too and I didn't enjoy that as much. Will have to try this for sure, hope its good.
I don't sit in while you're running it down; I don't carry a gun... I drive.
"By utilizing a subscription model, players are forced into paying for the game/expansion and hoping that it will be good, meeting their expectations."
Hey SOE, there's a way a developer can pull off such a revenue model with great success. It's called making a good game.
there hasnt been a single game post WoW that has pulled off a revenue model with great success. Outside of the orinigal batch of UO/EQ/DAoC/AC Id say only WoW, FFXI and EvE have had great success. EQ2, Lotro, Rift have all had moderate success. Games like AION and L2 have good success in a different market, but are flops in the US/EN market.
SO HOLD ON, it's going free to play for real but there's still a class pack you can buy for more classes and expansion packs and a subscription? Sounds like a cover-up for pay and for saying we're changing the game, but really we're conniving and taking advantage of gullible idiots.
Also, EQ2 population is greater than EQ1 (not by much) but EQ1 has little to gain going f2p, people will be put off by how dated it is. Also EQ1 has an EXTREMELY dautning road ot get to max level/appropriate AAs. EQ2 still feels a lot fresher and the curve is nowhere near as steep.
SO HOLD ON, it's going free to play for real but there's still a class pack you can buy for more classes and expansion packs and a subscription? Sounds like a cover-up for pay and for saying we're changing the game, but really we're conniving and taking advantage of gullible idiots.
the only idiot is you. You can enjoy the content for free with 8 classes, or pay/subscribe for more races and classes.
Its how a game can be both f2p and not p2w, the hybrid model. Its a different system than turbine uses, but the end result is the same.
These systems are meant to get people to sub, but are for more enticing than a free trial.
I was looking forward to AoD , Planetside 2, and Eq3 ...
I won't be looking forward to any of them now.
So long SoE , I will miss you.
Yes, new people to play with are bad. How dare they! the game doesnt change, at all, for existing customers with the exception of more people playing. Thats it.
"According to Georgeson, the industry isn’t going the way of subscription titles anymore, "
This, folks, is what you call willfully dishonest spin to help push an agenda and foster more acceptance from those who still oppose the idea (which there are still many).
Either that or it's a gross generalization made by someone who's been living under a rock.
Smedley made a similar statement some time back as well, and it was just as much BS.
The industry is not going entirely in either direction. There are new MMOs coming out that will have subs. There are MMOs that still have subs and will continue to for the foreseeable future. There are MMOs, like FFXIV, that are reintroducing subs in the near future.
People like Georgeson, and others whose companies are adopting F2P are basically trying to push this concept down people's throats that it's a binary situation; a "one or the other" dichotomy between F2P and Subs. They're selling the idea with this air of "invevitability" to try and get people to accept it as a matter of "I may as well accept and adapt to F2P if it's inevitably the future and Subs are going away".
F2P isn't, and Subs aren't. Not for the foreseeable future, anyway.
Both models are viable and quite relevant payment models that can each earn a respectable amount of money for their respective developers, so long as they can get enough people who feel they're worth the investment; that's the real trick, folks.
P2P/Subs rely on earning box and/or subscription fees over the long-term from their players. They must do this by providing a game that 1) Gamers find enjoyable enough to continue playing and paying for month-after-month and 2) Provide enough new content to keep them entertained and occupied for all that time.
F2P/Cash Shop MMOs rely on earning their revenue in the short-to-mid term, by designing specific restrictions, speedubmps and other obstacles into the game deliberately. They do this to create a demand for which they can "supply" the solutions via their cash shop. Aside from that they can also sell vanity items and, if they want to go that route, armor, weapons and other things that some may consider bordering on "Pay-To-Win" territory.
Subscriptions are a tried-and-true method, proven out over the course of 10+ years in the MMO genre, as well as far longer than that in other areas (magazines, cable services, etc. etc.). There's nothing suddenly "wrong" with them because F2P/Cash Shops are now an alternate option.
Does anyone else find it rather funny, and more than a little suspicious, that for all those years, developers and publishers - including SOE themselves - all embraced subscriptions 100% without question, even while F2P/Cash Shops had already been well-established in the Eastern Market? Yet, now that they're seeing how much more they can make with "buy-on-demand" microtransactions over "monthly subs" and are making the move to that model instead, suddenly "subscriptions are a dinosaur and are a thing of the past". That sudden change of attitude is more than a little dubious in my view.
Remarks like the one I quoted are a classic example of SOE trying to steer people toward accepting the F2P model by making such prophetic statements as they did.. even though there's no hard evidence to prove this. In fact, there is evidence to prove that subs aren't going anywhere.
They're trying to screw with our perceptions, folks. Nothing more. Don't take anything they say at surface value. Read between the li(n)es.
F2P/Cash Shops are an alternative to Subscriptions. They're not a "replacement".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I was looking forward to AoD , Planetside 2, and Eq3 ...
I won't be looking forward to any of them now.
So long SoE , I will miss you.
Yes, new people to play with are bad. How dare they! the game doesnt change, at all, for existing customers with the exception of more people playing. Thats it.
I don't like the free to play model, its a personal choice which has nothing to do with the community. The amount of people playing on my server a month ago was more than enough to keep the game interesting, from that stand point.
I'm simply making a choice, a choice with my wallet not to devote any more of my funds to a company pushing the free to play model. I still think SoE makes fine games, enjoyable games ... I just don't like their move to free to play.
Problem is this line: "The F2P players will be under the same restrictions that currently exist on the Everquest II Extended server."
Yeah, no thanks. If I play a game converted to F2P, it will probably be L2. Lineage 2 is doing it right.... offer all the content for free and sell vanity / fluff items & exp potions in the shop. The restrictions in EQ2 F2P are insane... and they have a cash shop on top of it.
Exactly my thoughts. When I saw the title of the article, I actually thought they are finally going to make the F2P worth playing. All it seems they are doing is combining the regular and extended servers. The unbelievably restrictive F2P model makes it nearly unplayable, and they are not changing a thing in that regard. I'll pass.
I'm not familiar with L2, but it sounds like a similar model to League of Legends. To me, this is the only F2P game that has it the way it should be. The only thing that paying members get are fluff items (skins), and more exp/credits per battle. That's the way it should be. No other unfair advantages, and no other restrictions exist.
I'm not a SOE hater, but I can certainly see why people are.
so.... maybe i just missed the info, but i'm curious about something.
if i'm not subbed when this happens (or even if i am) then come back when it goes F2P, will i have all my character slots locked like other F2P games? i have all 6 out of 7 characted slots filled, and was saving one for the Beastmaster....
i dunno. this ALMOST sounds like good news, but i need more info.
Theres really no change except, freeport servers marketplace will lose som,e items, and if you pay 14.99 a month, you re now a gold member, name changed is all. Other then that theres really nothing new to it.
I was looking forward to AoD , Planetside 2, and Eq3 ...
I won't be looking forward to any of them now.
So long SoE , I will miss you.
Yes, new people to play with are bad. How dare they! the game doesnt change, at all, for existing customers with the exception of more people playing. Thats it.
I don't like the free to play model, its a personal choice which has nothing to do with the community. The amount of people playing on my server a month ago was more than enough to keep the game interesting, from that stand point.
I'm simply making a choice, a choice with my wallet not to devote any more of my funds to a company pushing the free to play model. I still think SoE makes fine games, enjoyable games ... I just don't like their move to free to play.
Savvy?
But they arent changing anything about your subscription. EQ2 is still very much based off the sub model, people just have other options if they choose.
Its not like they are pushing the pay to win model, there is a huge difference.
If your subbed it will be the same if your not you drop to fp and and you only have achsess to 2 characters but everything they had will be striped if above mastercraft gear and all your spells will be the same except you cant raise any above expert or maybe adept look on the link theres a matrix to what free players get.
Problem is this line: "The F2P players will be under the same restrictions that currently exist on the Everquest II Extended server."
Yeah, no thanks. If I play a game converted to F2P, it will probably be L2. Lineage 2 is doing it right.... offer all the content for free and sell vanity / fluff items & exp potions in the shop. The restrictions in EQ2 F2P are insane... and they have a cash shop on top of it.
Exactly my thoughts. When I saw the title of the article, I actually thought they are finally going to make the F2P worth playing. All it seems they are doing is combining the regular and extended servers. The unbelievably restrictive F2P model makes it nearly unplayable, and they are not changing a thing in that regard. I'll pass.
I'm not familiar with L2, but it sounds like a similar model to League of Legends. To me, this is the only F2P game that has it the way it should be. The only thing that paying members get are fluff items (skins), and more exp/credits per battle. That's the way it should be. No other unfair advantages, and no other restrictions exist.
I'm not a SOE hater, but I can certainly see why people are.
Its not remotely unplayable. You are still an overpowered god from 1-80 thanks to AAs. If after (for most people) exhausting the several months worth of free leveling content you decide you want to play endgame, you can just sub.
Anyone who thinks your content access is restricted until very high end sentinel's fate is completely full of shit.
"According to Georgeson, the industry isn’t going the way of subscription titles anymore, "
This, folks, is what you call willfully dishonest spin to help push an agenda and foster more acceptance from those who still oppose the idea (which there are still many).
They're trying to screw with our perceptions, folks. Nothing more. Don't take anything they say at surface value. Read between the li(n)es.
F2P/Cash Shops are an alternative to Subscriptions. They're not a "replacement".
personally, I really dont know
but recent press news do lend him credit -- 2 different reports
Report: 47% Of MMO Spending In U.S. Comes From Free-To-Play MMOs
PC game subscriptions in North America and Europe declined in 2010 for the first time since the group began monitoring the sector in 2002.
The cause of the decline, according to the report, is an increased industry-wide focus on microtransactions, which were up 24 percent to $1.13 billion across the North American and European online game markets in 2010.
Comments
agree - even LOTRO still offers rez items in their shop
EQ2 fan sites
valid point
the freeport players had a more flexible cash shop and soe will be merging that server with the Bazaar later
the new f2p players will never see the cash shop that Freeport used to have
EQ2 fan sites
"By utilizing a subscription model, players are forced into paying for the game/expansion and hoping that it will be good, meeting their expectations."
Hey SOE, there's a way a developer can pull off such a revenue model with great success. It's called making a good game.
To those saying the "only difference" will be that there are more people to group with, I say, "lol." We paying customers wanted nothing to do with the free players. Now every server is just going to be an annoying troll factory of low level stupidly named players (who, as I said before, don't take the game or their characters seriously) complaining and inciting arguments in every chat channel they can.
Ignorant elitest nonsense.
I have been with CoH through it's move to F2P, keeping my sub, and if anything the Freebs/ Premiums I have encountered are better mannered and more open and friendly then the vets.
In fact, your very post here underlines my point... it is hostile and rude, pretty much qualifying for product from the 'troll factory' and certainly exists to incite argument.
If this is a measure of your community, I have no idea what freebs could do to make it any worse.
The game servers won't even be able to handle any influx of Free players.
I see servers, like Antonia Bayle, going to be a crashing lagfest.
Just have a look at DCUO. It's a total shambles for over 10 days now! The EU PC server has been totally unplayable ever since it went F2P ! And every hotfix they put out so far has made matters worse! Since last hotfix NOTHING works anymore ingame. LOL!
You can bet the same is going to happen when this game goes fully F2P!
This game is dying. They even charge FULL price for the upcoming expansion, that's even remotely not an expansion, with NO content added!
SOE has lost it completely! They are losing SWG! Vanguard on the brinck of death (especially now the remaining players have come to realise NOTHING is coming at all! All lies!), EverQuest 2 losing players faster than ever (especially since the last dissaster Game Update)
The only game they have left that is still doing decently, is EverQuest 1. But it's just becoming a very old game nearing the end of it's life as well.
Sorry to say (and I hate to say it), but I see another large round of lay offs and studio closures @ SOE coming up next year!
Planet Side 2, EQ:Next ...... I really wonder they will even make it to launch. :-/
a 'f2p style cash shop' is a pay to win cash shop. Eq2's cash shop is fluff.
It is absolutely NOTHING like what you would see from perfect world and FoM style games. Those games require you to use the cash shop in excessive quantities for you to be able to attempt higher level content.
And the main source of revenue form the incoming f2p population will be when they convert to subs.
Oh interesting, here is an mmo that I've never tried going F2P. Of course I said this for Lotro too and I didn't enjoy that as much. Will have to try this for sure, hope its good.
I don't sit in while you're running it down; I don't carry a gun... I drive.
there hasnt been a single game post WoW that has pulled off a revenue model with great success. Outside of the orinigal batch of UO/EQ/DAoC/AC Id say only WoW, FFXI and EvE have had great success. EQ2, Lotro, Rift have all had moderate success. Games like AION and L2 have good success in a different market, but are flops in the US/EN market.
SO HOLD ON, it's going free to play for real but there's still a class pack you can buy for more classes and expansion packs and a subscription? Sounds like a cover-up for pay and for saying we're changing the game, but really we're conniving and taking advantage of gullible idiots.
I was looking forward to AoD , Planetside 2, and Eq3 ...
I won't be looking forward to any of them now.
So long SoE , I will miss you.
Also, EQ2 population is greater than EQ1 (not by much) but EQ1 has little to gain going f2p, people will be put off by how dated it is. Also EQ1 has an EXTREMELY dautning road ot get to max level/appropriate AAs. EQ2 still feels a lot fresher and the curve is nowhere near as steep.
the only idiot is you. You can enjoy the content for free with 8 classes, or pay/subscribe for more races and classes.
Its how a game can be both f2p and not p2w, the hybrid model. Its a different system than turbine uses, but the end result is the same.
These systems are meant to get people to sub, but are for more enticing than a free trial.
Yes, new people to play with are bad. How dare they! the game doesnt change, at all, for existing customers with the exception of more people playing. Thats it.
"According to Georgeson, the industry isn’t going the way of subscription titles anymore, "
This, folks, is what you call willfully dishonest spin to help push an agenda and foster more acceptance from those who still oppose the idea (which there are still many).
Either that or it's a gross generalization made by someone who's been living under a rock.
Smedley made a similar statement some time back as well, and it was just as much BS.
The industry is not going entirely in either direction. There are new MMOs coming out that will have subs. There are MMOs that still have subs and will continue to for the foreseeable future. There are MMOs, like FFXIV, that are reintroducing subs in the near future.
People like Georgeson, and others whose companies are adopting F2P are basically trying to push this concept down people's throats that it's a binary situation; a "one or the other" dichotomy between F2P and Subs. They're selling the idea with this air of "invevitability" to try and get people to accept it as a matter of "I may as well accept and adapt to F2P if it's inevitably the future and Subs are going away".
F2P isn't, and Subs aren't. Not for the foreseeable future, anyway.
Both models are viable and quite relevant payment models that can each earn a respectable amount of money for their respective developers, so long as they can get enough people who feel they're worth the investment; that's the real trick, folks.
P2P/Subs rely on earning box and/or subscription fees over the long-term from their players. They must do this by providing a game that 1) Gamers find enjoyable enough to continue playing and paying for month-after-month and 2) Provide enough new content to keep them entertained and occupied for all that time.
F2P/Cash Shop MMOs rely on earning their revenue in the short-to-mid term, by designing specific restrictions, speedubmps and other obstacles into the game deliberately. They do this to create a demand for which they can "supply" the solutions via their cash shop. Aside from that they can also sell vanity items and, if they want to go that route, armor, weapons and other things that some may consider bordering on "Pay-To-Win" territory.
Subscriptions are a tried-and-true method, proven out over the course of 10+ years in the MMO genre, as well as far longer than that in other areas (magazines, cable services, etc. etc.). There's nothing suddenly "wrong" with them because F2P/Cash Shops are now an alternate option.
Does anyone else find it rather funny, and more than a little suspicious, that for all those years, developers and publishers - including SOE themselves - all embraced subscriptions 100% without question, even while F2P/Cash Shops had already been well-established in the Eastern Market? Yet, now that they're seeing how much more they can make with "buy-on-demand" microtransactions over "monthly subs" and are making the move to that model instead, suddenly "subscriptions are a dinosaur and are a thing of the past". That sudden change of attitude is more than a little dubious in my view.
Remarks like the one I quoted are a classic example of SOE trying to steer people toward accepting the F2P model by making such prophetic statements as they did.. even though there's no hard evidence to prove this. In fact, there is evidence to prove that subs aren't going anywhere.
They're trying to screw with our perceptions, folks. Nothing more. Don't take anything they say at surface value. Read between the li(n)es.
F2P/Cash Shops are an alternative to Subscriptions. They're not a "replacement".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Translation: "EQ II Extended is making a butt-load more money than EQ II is so we've decided to force subscribers into the F2P model as well."
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
I don't like the free to play model, its a personal choice which has nothing to do with the community. The amount of people playing on my server a month ago was more than enough to keep the game interesting, from that stand point.
I'm simply making a choice, a choice with my wallet not to devote any more of my funds to a company pushing the free to play model. I still think SoE makes fine games, enjoyable games ... I just don't like their move to free to play.
Savvy?
Exactly my thoughts. When I saw the title of the article, I actually thought they are finally going to make the F2P worth playing. All it seems they are doing is combining the regular and extended servers. The unbelievably restrictive F2P model makes it nearly unplayable, and they are not changing a thing in that regard. I'll pass.
I'm not familiar with L2, but it sounds like a similar model to League of Legends. To me, this is the only F2P game that has it the way it should be. The only thing that paying members get are fluff items (skins), and more exp/credits per battle. That's the way it should be. No other unfair advantages, and no other restrictions exist.
I'm not a SOE hater, but I can certainly see why people are.
hmmm......
so.... maybe i just missed the info, but i'm curious about something.
if i'm not subbed when this happens (or even if i am) then come back when it goes F2P, will i have all my character slots locked like other F2P games? i have all 6 out of 7 characted slots filled, and was saving one for the Beastmaster....
i dunno. this ALMOST sounds like good news, but i need more info.
Theres really no change except, freeport servers marketplace will lose som,e items, and if you pay 14.99 a month, you re now a gold member, name changed is all. Other then that theres really nothing new to it.
But they arent changing anything about your subscription. EQ2 is still very much based off the sub model, people just have other options if they choose.
Its not like they are pushing the pay to win model, there is a huge difference.
If your subbed it will be the same if your not you drop to fp and and you only have achsess to 2 characters but everything they had will be striped if above mastercraft gear and all your spells will be the same except you cant raise any above expert or maybe adept look on the link theres a matrix to what free players get.
http://everquest2.com/free_to_play/game_overview
Or look here at the matrix I am a Silver member on Extended but had like 5 or 6 toons on live hope to be able to play them again.
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
Its not remotely unplayable. You are still an overpowered god from 1-80 thanks to AAs. If after (for most people) exhausting the several months worth of free leveling content you decide you want to play endgame, you can just sub.
Anyone who thinks your content access is restricted until very high end sentinel's fate is completely full of shit.
personally, I really dont know
but recent press news do lend him credit -- 2 different reports
Report: 47% Of MMO Spending In U.S. Comes From Free-To-Play MMOs
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/38469/Report_47_Of_MMO_Spending_In_US_Comes_From_FreeToPlay_MMOs.php
subs down, microtransactions up
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/37259/Report_Revenue_From_PC_Game_Subscriptions_Fell_For_First_Time_In_2010.php
PC game subscriptions in North America and Europe declined in 2010 for the first time since the group began monitoring the sector in 2002.
The cause of the decline, according to the report, is an increased industry-wide focus on microtransactions, which were up 24 percent to $1.13 billion across the North American and European online game markets in 2010.
EQ2 fan sites
rage rage rage....
lol..
"Pay and hope".. I like that.. P2P has officially become PnH..
SWTOR is prolly the last bastion of hope for PnH games, we'll see what the players think and do when it releases...
Sorta like Smokey the Bear.. Only YOU can prevent everything from going F2P..