Yeah, I just find it really funny that ANY thread you see, even threads specifcally about SWTOR, you'll always see that Guild Wars 2 guy that comes in and says, "This game blows, go play GW2, Dynamic Events."
Talint
Yeah i see that happening too frequently and i also lurk on GW2 forums daily but i hardly see any TOR guy trying to ruin their discussion like that. But who cares really, GW2 fans are damaging their own community if this is the kind of behaviour they want to encourage. I am excited about GW2 but the community seems to remind me of WOW fans.
I think that the main reason bashing of SW:TOR happens from GW2 fans is because GW2 fans are looking for a game with innovation. And they feel that they will find that in GW2. Now, the reason they bash SW:TOR is because they don't feel it has much innovation or enough to compare to GW2. I think that trully sums up why this bashing occurs.
I'm not saying I do that, (I don't post too often) although I am more interested in GW2, but I do think that is likely why the bashing happens.
The negatives? Challenge and exploitation. Where the challenge won't be in killing the monster, but rather getting a shot in before your crowd of folks blows each mob into oblivion. And of course, players will always choose the path of least resistance, and get about the same rewards for it.
One thing that wasn't mentioned was the fact that the events scale to the number of active participants, so if more people join the event will scale in difficulty, doing things like adding more mobs, giving the boss more health, more skills, etc. in order to keep to keep it challenging for the number of people present. There won't be any massive mob of people steamrolling events.
They did mention it, actually. But let me get into a bit more detail with an example, and yes, this is (hopefully) going to be an overly negative exaggeration:
You have some 9-10 people doing an event and you aren't grouped with any of them. Some 4-5 elite mobs come roaring out of the trees. Your best strategy? Avoid aggro. Wait til they're engaged, then pepper each one with attacks.
In the end? Ranged players get 5 kills. Each poor bloke who got aggro'd? One.
Even with 1 mob each it could work this way. Or more.
But then, maybe the XP mechanic works via "who is in the area", ala WAR. I think Rift works like this, too. Like those two games, there will be folks that don't deserve credit that will get it, all while their existence in the area makes life more difficult for those that do. This is also a problem in standard grouping games, but at least you can kick them out.
I'm not saying any of it's a particularly bad idea. I've generally had the idea, "don't punish the player unless they're ruining another player's fun". Graying an engaged mob to prevent kill-stealing is one such punishment. "Don't you DARE try to loot that player's mob, and/or don't bother helping them!". I've always thought that the problem wasn't the "kill-stealing", it was that quests were designed to "kill X mobs/collect X mob body parts" in the first place. I like that GW2 seems to want to address the right problem.
I think we all need to realize that people like different things. Nobody here gets to decide what is or isn't good. There's people out there who absolutely love games I can't stand. I think we should all embrace these different preferences and just leave other gamers alone in their forums and just be happy that they found something they enjoy.
As far as GW2 vs SWTOR, I do think the bashing does go both ways. And even though I do think it goes both ways, I can see what the OP is touching on in regards to the mindset of a GW2 fan. Even though I don't try to bash other games, and especially not in their forums, this is how I view it.
After playing EQ, WoW was a breath of fresh air. Being able to quest and level up quickly rather than endlessly camp mobs was amazing. But like every game, I eventually got tired of WoW and quit playing it.
SWTOR probably will be better than WoW in every way, but it started from a standpoint of trying to improve WoW (I am NOT saying "wow clone"). Blame Rift for having killed the traditional MMO for me, I just can't do it anymore.
For me, GW2 looks to be about as much of a breath of fresh air as WoW did back in the day. Dynamic events, even if they don't pull people together like they're designed to, are imho still just about 100% better than quests in other ways as well. Being able to move while casting and dodge feels so liberating to me. And on top of it, it's B2P.
No game is for everyone, and there's plenty of valid preference reasons not to play anything. I guess for me, it's like I can see why people who like GW2 would not like SWTOR (due to a desire for wanting something vastly different). It's much more difficult (for me at least) to see why people who like SWTOR would not also at least consider GW2, if nothing else then as a B2P side game (though feeling like the fantasy genre is played out is a big one I consider valid). And I think that is what the OP is seeing from those GW2 fans who bash SWTOR (who I don't endorse).
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I just think people are setting their expectations too highly. Praise the game for what it's worth, but don't blind yourself thinking that the game will "save the genre" or that it will bring about unprecedented changes that will alter the entire history of gaming. By doing so, you are setting yourself up for disaster. Enjoy the game but don't glorify it with otherworldly characteristics. Most importantly, try not to rub on other people's faces why "your game is better than everyone else's game." Not only is it stupid, it causes a great deal of unnecessary turmoil.
I have a question.. Why is it that all the Guild Wars 2 fans, feel the need to completely bash SWTOR, but we SWTOR don't care, and say nothing about Guild Wars 2.. has always blown my mind.
Talint
[Mod Edit]
The short answer is that 'GW2 fans', if it is even possible to speak in those incredibly broad terms, don't have that need at all. Your just probably over sensitive to SWToR being criticised. Not having a go at you, just saying we can notice it more when games we especially like are spoken negatively about.
Personally I am looking forward 100x more to GW2 then SWtoR, simply because I feel it is the fresher better built game at this time. If I criticise SWtoR it is to note on points where it fails for me... that's all. I also talk openly about what it does well, but 'SWtoR fans' seem to always want to talk about my criticisms rather then what I like.
People speaking critically about the next BIG MMORPG isn't usually 'bashing', it is them talking about the next MMORPG event, which is perfectly fine. Just because they might not see it 100% the same way as you dosen't mean they are overly hostile to 'your' game.
TBH, the real problem comes from the over senstive reactions from certain quarters (resulting from a siege mentality and an overly entrenched PoV) where everyone with a critical opinion on apects of a game becomes a 'basher', 'troll', or 'hater'. It polarises every thread very quickly and gets in the way of having a reasonable chat about the issues.
The negatives? Challenge and exploitation. Where the challenge won't be in killing the monster, but rather getting a shot in before your crowd of folks blows each mob into oblivion. And of course, players will always choose the path of least resistance, and get about the same rewards for it.
One thing that wasn't mentioned was the fact that the events scale to the number of active participants, so if more people join the event will scale in difficulty, doing things like adding more mobs, giving the boss more health, more skills, etc. in order to keep to keep it challenging for the number of people present. There won't be any massive mob of people steamrolling events.
They did mention it, actually. But let me get into a bit more detail with an example, and yes, this is (hopefully) going to be an overly negative exaggeration:
You have some 9-10 people doing an event and you aren't grouped with any of them. Some 4-5 elite mobs come roaring out of the trees. Your best strategy? Avoid aggro. Wait til they're engaged, then pepper each one with attacks.
In the end? Ranged players get 5 kills. Each poor bloke who got aggro'd? One.
Even with 1 mob each it could work this way. Or more.
But then, maybe the XP mechanic works via "who is in the area", ala WAR. I think Rift works like this, too. Like those two games, there will be folks that don't deserve credit that will get it, all while their existence in the area makes life more difficult for those that do. This is also a problem in standard grouping games, but at least you can kick them out.
I'm not saying any of it's a particularly bad idea. I've generally had the idea, "don't punish the player unless they're ruining another player's fun". Graying an engaged mob to prevent kill-stealing is one such punishment. "Don't you DARE try to loot that player's mob, and/or don't bother helping them!". I've always thought that the problem wasn't the "kill-stealing", it was that quests were designed to "kill X mobs/collect X mob body parts" in the first place. I like that GW2 seems to want to address the right problem.
Whether it will work? We'll see.
Ah, I see. Well, rewards won't be based on the kills, but on how much you contributed to the event. Even if you don't personally get any kills, the fact that you're actively participating in this event (being the bull rush by a group of five baddies) means you'll get full reward. If you only participate minimally, you'll get less of a reward. If you simply watch, you get nothing. If you start off by helping and leave before it's done, the event will scale down to make it a little easier for the remaining... and if you join one in progress it'll scale up to be more challenging overall.
Looking from the outside with the limited knowlege we all have.I would gravitate tward GW2. Why..they have taken more chances with good results with game play. and I HAVE MORE COONFIDENCE THEY WILL HAVE TRUE 24/7 FACTION CONFLICT.
Never really thought of it, but my guess is that SWTOR is coming out first so they have their day in the sun first, so I think its natural for people to try to compete with the existing or earlier game. I believe its the same as why do so many SWTOR fans talk about SWTOR v. WOW, when you don't hear many WOW people doing the reverse.
One of them is WoW Cataclysm 1.5 (Cataclysm has voice acting and story, hence one being Cataclysm 1.5) I'm assuming you are talking about SWTOR with this one.
One tries to be different and innovative. I'm assuming you are talking about GW2 here.
One blatantly copies WoW Don't know which one you are talking about here.
One has an already awesome community (but could change) Depends on how you are viewing the community. Most of the people i see bashing SWTOR from the GW2 sides are generally behaving in an asshatish way, so I don't really think that's awesome. Nothing about either games community would lead me to believe they are awesome. With a lower barier to entry GW2 (with no sub) will have a more immature community as it is much easier to get parents to buy a one-off game rather than pony up a sub every month.
One has a community filled with WoW members, and filled with trolls (from WoW mostly) and 4chan members (first hand experience of the community) Since having seen much more trolling of virtually every other Themepark game from GW2 fans, I guess you are talking about GW2 with this one.
One is heavily group focused Don't know which one you are talking about here as the main grouping mechanic from GW2 seems to be just showing up in the vicinity of other people will throw you into or prompt you into joining as a group. Don't really see how that is much different than soloing. Though I will say I grouped up much more in the beta weekend for SWTOR than I have in any mmo.
One I will play 100% solo, with chat turned off and all invites turned off (because with chat on, I wanted to scream at the people in chat, it is a MUCH better experience 100% solo.) Since you could only have played SWTOR for any lenght of time where you would get that angry, I'm assuming you are talking about that one. On the other hand I had the same issue with the first GW and pretty much every mmo I've ever played since about 2003.
One has dynamic events that change the world. I was under the impression that the events in GW2 would eventually reset though not at the rate of RIFT.
One has a static world that does not change See above.
One has a story that you follow from point a to point b (but a very good one) Don't both have this? (GW2 has a personal story that is similar unless that has changed in the last few days)
One lets you choose what to do and where to go So one of them doesn't have levels?
Both (from what I have seen of both) have great voice acting
Now in all honesty this is only from reading these forums, and not really anywhere else, but I'm going to see if our list of things matches where you were going with this.
I see a lot of posts about how SW is a themepark and GW2 is not. Hat to burst bubbles, but GW2 is a quest driven themepark, just with a more hidden/organic way of doing quests (which i do like the idea of). Get quest from npc or find it occuring out in the world-it's still a quest arc you have to follow. They are doing some interesting things with results changing the next part of quest, but in the long run still laid out content that will reset for the next guy to do and no lasting effect on world-like themepark. I'm waiting for these 2 games (and TSW) to be released for a couple of weeks before i pay (been burned before-CO, AoC i'm looking at you guys). Why people hate on either game comes down to psychology- people are strange. Both are taking baby steps in changing mmo's, when most of us want leaps of innovation and ideas. I do have to give GW2 the edge on trying to be different, but SWTOR does seems like a fun play. We shall see.
One lets you choose what to do and where to go So one of them doesn't have levels?
I'm going to ignore everything else because I'm not getting in on the GW2 vs. SWtOR fight (Personally, I blame the TSW fans for secretly pretending to be GW2/SWtOR fans and agitating the whole thing. It's a conspiracy, man)... but I thought I'd at least deal with something factual.
Since GW2 has sidekicking up and automatic sidekicking down, the levels are actually kind of a joke. Which is actually a design feature that might annoy many people (I personally prefer it), but yeah, you can go to most of the areas (Including the WvW PvP) from the beginning, or at least by level 2 after you finish the semi-tutorial. :P
You can also travel to any one of the five starting zones, there's nothing that is really forcing you to stay at the one you're at.
I have a question.. Why is it that all the Guild Wars 2 fans, feel the need to completely bash SWTOR, but we SWTOR don't care, and say nothing about Guild Wars 2.. has always blown my mind.
Talint
[Mod Edit]
I would not say that it is just GW2 fans bashing SWTOR. MMORPG fans are bashing SWTOR, WoW fans are bashing SWTOR, F2P fans are bashing SWTOR, etc, etc, etc - probably a bunch of Trekkies that stumbled across the site are bashing SWTOR out of that age old conflict.
Part of it may simply be the case that SWTOR is closer to launch - so, the game to bash is the game closer to launch. Part of that comes from the increased hype and hoopla leading up to a launch...some people just hate hype. A cure for cancer could have been found and it would be made available to the public in a month - it would be hyped to Hell and back . . . and that hype, even for a good thing - would result in bashing.
It's odd though, thinking about this, because I've seen more bashing of GW2 than SWTOR. It's almost as if the general public here knows on the subconscious level, not to say anything bad about SWTOR. You could call GW2 a flaming pile of roadkill poo...and folks might ignore you, argue with you, or toss a few flaming kittens at you. You say that SWTOR is anything less than 110% perfect . . . and . . . suddenly you're getting dinged on rating, you're getting posts reported left, right, and center. Basically, you end up feeling like you've triggered some sort of conspiracy of nerd rage. It's kind of funny, imho.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
I see a lot of posts about how SW is a themepark and GW2 is not. Hat to burst bubbles, but GW2 is a quest driven themepark, just with a more hidden/organic way of doing quests (which i do like the idea of). Get quest from npc or find it occuring out in the world-it's still a quest arc you have to follow. They are doing some interesting things with results changing the next part of quest, but in the long run still laid out content that will reset for the next guy to do and no lasting effect on world-like themepark. I'm waiting for these 2 games (and TSW) to be released for a couple of weeks before i pay (been burned before-CO, AoC i'm looking at you guys). Why people hate on either game comes down to psychology- people are strange. Both are taking baby steps in changing mmo's, when most of us want leaps of innovation and ideas. I do have to give GW2 the edge on trying to be different, but SWTOR does seems like a fun play. We shall see.
Yeah, I don't see much that is sandboxy about GW2. I see several things that are different from the "traditional" post wow mmo, but none of it is really sandboxy.
The whole my community vs your community argument makes me laugh. Both games are going to have fanboys,trolls,haters,brats etc. Hell.. EVERY mmorpg will have them. To base whether you're not willing to atleast TRY a game soley on the "ew this community is gonna suck" mindset is just....
The whole my community vs your community argument makes me laugh. Both games are going to have fanboys,trolls,haters,brats etc. Hell.. EVERY mmorpg will have them. To base whether you're not willing to atleast TRY a game soley on the "ew this community is gonna suck" mindset is just....
Most people can't be neutral. Everyone wants to pick sides. Even real life is based on that human instinct. Religion, wars, politics all based on X. VS. Y. VS. Z.......
I have a question.. Why is it that all the Guild Wars 2 fans, feel the need to completely bash SWTOR, but we SWTOR don't care, and say nothing about Guild Wars 2.. has always blown my mind.
Talint
[Mod Edit]
Simple. GW2 fans are also MMORPG players. While SWTOR fans are not. So they have nothing to say in my opinion because most of them have no idea what is going on in the genre or if other such games actually exist or existed.
SWTOR is bringing in to the genre many Fans of the IP that are thre simply because it is a SW based game.
And that would explain why most are oblivious to the Topics MMO vets are discussing about. For many of them SWTOR is like a dream come true.
Give them a few years and then they may become part of the genres fanbase too and will be joining the discussions as well.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
I have a question.. Why is it that all the Guild Wars 2 fans, feel the need to completely bash SWTOR, but we SWTOR don't care, and say nothing about Guild Wars 2.. has always blown my mind.
Talint
[Mod Edit]
Pretty myopic of you since there are frequent visitors to the GW2 forums who go there specifically to bash. I'm sure *none* of them are SWTOR fans, right?
Troublemaker.
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact you can't even comment on a concern with GW2 without being accused of bashing the game or being a hater.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact you can't even comment on a concern with GW2 without being accused of bashing the game or being a hater.
... let's say it's a little of column A, a little of column B.
If you don't think there's a decent variety of GW2 bashers, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
I know sometimes people overreact (I would consider some people to merely be airing their differences, but I'm more tolerant than most people anyway), but I think it would be silly to say that there aren't a good portion of actual GW2 bashers and trolls out there too. (I'm not going to name any names...)
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact you can't even comment on a concern with GW2 without being accused of bashing the game or being a hater.
... let's say it's a little of column A, a little of column B.
If you don't think there's a decent variety of GW2 bashers, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
I know sometimes people overreact (I would consider some people to merely be airing their differences, but I'm more tolerant than most people anyway), but I think it would be silly to say that there aren't a good portion of actual GW2 bashers and trolls out there too. (I'm not going to name any names...)
I'm sure there are bashers, it wouldn't be a proper forum section without some blind hate here and there. My point was more about the idea of what is bashing and what is a general concern or critique, which seems to be overly confused in the GW2 section.
How many threads are started in that section daily declaring that the game is an outright fail? I don't see many, if anything i see far more of the exact opposite. Granted the GW2 section doesn't see as much traffic, but still the blind hate for GW2 has been mild in comparison to just about any MMO currently in development or released.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
STOP BULLYING it screams... even though it is as natural as that odd flower that stares at you every time you go outside slightly smiling, measuring you with it's eyes, studying you for every tiny little detail it can see, wanting you, wishing for you, dreaming....
Anywho, while yes there are some out there (both gw2 and swto, and every game in this world) you are gonna have haters. Some will make sense some will... be like that flower, creepy and sometimes mean and only wants you for one thing.... to fill their..... trolling needs. So please, if you really dislike it, just ignore the post and alert other people. Simple, easy, and hey, maybe a good read if someone falls for the troll. Don't act like swtor is the one hated on the most, (though there are reasons to...), it isn't. Please, look at WoW, I'm surprised they haven't made a fairy tale/ movie for all the trolls/ haters on that ****.
P.S. -> *Playing the world's smallest violin" during this whole thing.
Why does either one have to be "better". They each are a very seperate offering in the MMO fray. SWTOR is offering Bioware's signature storytelling and character interaction in a Star Wars (sci-fi) universe. GW2 is offering a dynamic world with a seemingly smaller personal story, but a story nonetheless in a fantasy universe. Both sound amazing and both look to offer a stellar experience. I don't see why one has to triumph over the other and I hope they both thrive and deliver so that I can finally start to add more options to my MMO plate.
Comments
guess you didnt play GW1
?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Please leave personal attacks and baiting out of the discussion.
I think that the main reason bashing of SW:TOR happens from GW2 fans is because GW2 fans are looking for a game with innovation. And they feel that they will find that in GW2. Now, the reason they bash SW:TOR is because they don't feel it has much innovation or enough to compare to GW2. I think that trully sums up why this bashing occurs.
I'm not saying I do that, (I don't post too often) although I am more interested in GW2, but I do think that is likely why the bashing happens.
They did mention it, actually. But let me get into a bit more detail with an example, and yes, this is (hopefully) going to be an overly negative exaggeration:
You have some 9-10 people doing an event and you aren't grouped with any of them. Some 4-5 elite mobs come roaring out of the trees. Your best strategy? Avoid aggro. Wait til they're engaged, then pepper each one with attacks.
In the end? Ranged players get 5 kills. Each poor bloke who got aggro'd? One.
Even with 1 mob each it could work this way. Or more.
But then, maybe the XP mechanic works via "who is in the area", ala WAR. I think Rift works like this, too. Like those two games, there will be folks that don't deserve credit that will get it, all while their existence in the area makes life more difficult for those that do. This is also a problem in standard grouping games, but at least you can kick them out.
I'm not saying any of it's a particularly bad idea. I've generally had the idea, "don't punish the player unless they're ruining another player's fun". Graying an engaged mob to prevent kill-stealing is one such punishment. "Don't you DARE try to loot that player's mob, and/or don't bother helping them!". I've always thought that the problem wasn't the "kill-stealing", it was that quests were designed to "kill X mobs/collect X mob body parts" in the first place. I like that GW2 seems to want to address the right problem.
Whether it will work? We'll see.
I think we all need to realize that people like different things. Nobody here gets to decide what is or isn't good. There's people out there who absolutely love games I can't stand. I think we should all embrace these different preferences and just leave other gamers alone in their forums and just be happy that they found something they enjoy.
As far as GW2 vs SWTOR, I do think the bashing does go both ways. And even though I do think it goes both ways, I can see what the OP is touching on in regards to the mindset of a GW2 fan. Even though I don't try to bash other games, and especially not in their forums, this is how I view it.
After playing EQ, WoW was a breath of fresh air. Being able to quest and level up quickly rather than endlessly camp mobs was amazing. But like every game, I eventually got tired of WoW and quit playing it.
SWTOR probably will be better than WoW in every way, but it started from a standpoint of trying to improve WoW (I am NOT saying "wow clone"). Blame Rift for having killed the traditional MMO for me, I just can't do it anymore.
For me, GW2 looks to be about as much of a breath of fresh air as WoW did back in the day. Dynamic events, even if they don't pull people together like they're designed to, are imho still just about 100% better than quests in other ways as well. Being able to move while casting and dodge feels so liberating to me. And on top of it, it's B2P.
No game is for everyone, and there's plenty of valid preference reasons not to play anything. I guess for me, it's like I can see why people who like GW2 would not like SWTOR (due to a desire for wanting something vastly different). It's much more difficult (for me at least) to see why people who like SWTOR would not also at least consider GW2, if nothing else then as a B2P side game (though feeling like the fantasy genre is played out is a big one I consider valid). And I think that is what the OP is seeing from those GW2 fans who bash SWTOR (who I don't endorse).
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I just think people are setting their expectations too highly. Praise the game for what it's worth, but don't blind yourself thinking that the game will "save the genre" or that it will bring about unprecedented changes that will alter the entire history of gaming. By doing so, you are setting yourself up for disaster. Enjoy the game but don't glorify it with otherworldly characteristics. Most importantly, try not to rub on other people's faces why "your game is better than everyone else's game." Not only is it stupid, it causes a great deal of unnecessary turmoil.
The short answer is that 'GW2 fans', if it is even possible to speak in those incredibly broad terms, don't have that need at all. Your just probably over sensitive to SWToR being criticised. Not having a go at you, just saying we can notice it more when games we especially like are spoken negatively about.
Personally I am looking forward 100x more to GW2 then SWtoR, simply because I feel it is the fresher better built game at this time. If I criticise SWtoR it is to note on points where it fails for me... that's all. I also talk openly about what it does well, but 'SWtoR fans' seem to always want to talk about my criticisms rather then what I like.
People speaking critically about the next BIG MMORPG isn't usually 'bashing', it is them talking about the next MMORPG event, which is perfectly fine. Just because they might not see it 100% the same way as you dosen't mean they are overly hostile to 'your' game.
TBH, the real problem comes from the over senstive reactions from certain quarters (resulting from a siege mentality and an overly entrenched PoV) where everyone with a critical opinion on apects of a game becomes a 'basher', 'troll', or 'hater'. It polarises every thread very quickly and gets in the way of having a reasonable chat about the issues.
Ah, I see. Well, rewards won't be based on the kills, but on how much you contributed to the event. Even if you don't personally get any kills, the fact that you're actively participating in this event (being the bull rush by a group of five baddies) means you'll get full reward. If you only participate minimally, you'll get less of a reward. If you simply watch, you get nothing. If you start off by helping and leave before it's done, the event will scale down to make it a little easier for the remaining... and if you join one in progress it'll scale up to be more challenging overall.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Looking from the outside with the limited knowlege we all have.I would gravitate tward GW2. Why..they have taken more chances with good results with game play. and I HAVE MORE COONFIDENCE THEY WILL HAVE TRUE 24/7 FACTION CONFLICT.
Never really thought of it, but my guess is that SWTOR is coming out first so they have their day in the sun first, so I think its natural for people to try to compete with the existing or earlier game. I believe its the same as why do so many SWTOR fans talk about SWTOR v. WOW, when you don't hear many WOW people doing the reverse.
I self identify as a monkey.
Now in all honesty this is only from reading these forums, and not really anywhere else, but I'm going to see if our list of things matches where you were going with this.
I see a lot of posts about how SW is a themepark and GW2 is not. Hat to burst bubbles, but GW2 is a quest driven themepark, just with a more hidden/organic way of doing quests (which i do like the idea of). Get quest from npc or find it occuring out in the world-it's still a quest arc you have to follow. They are doing some interesting things with results changing the next part of quest, but in the long run still laid out content that will reset for the next guy to do and no lasting effect on world-like themepark. I'm waiting for these 2 games (and TSW) to be released for a couple of weeks before i pay (been burned before-CO, AoC i'm looking at you guys). Why people hate on either game comes down to psychology- people are strange. Both are taking baby steps in changing mmo's, when most of us want leaps of innovation and ideas. I do have to give GW2 the edge on trying to be different, but SWTOR does seems like a fun play. We shall see.
I'm going to ignore everything else because I'm not getting in on the GW2 vs. SWtOR fight (Personally, I blame the TSW fans for secretly pretending to be GW2/SWtOR fans and agitating the whole thing. It's a conspiracy, man)... but I thought I'd at least deal with something factual.
Since GW2 has sidekicking up and automatic sidekicking down, the levels are actually kind of a joke. Which is actually a design feature that might annoy many people (I personally prefer it), but yeah, you can go to most of the areas (Including the WvW PvP) from the beginning, or at least by level 2 after you finish the semi-tutorial. :P
You can also travel to any one of the five starting zones, there's nothing that is really forcing you to stay at the one you're at.
I would not say that it is just GW2 fans bashing SWTOR. MMORPG fans are bashing SWTOR, WoW fans are bashing SWTOR, F2P fans are bashing SWTOR, etc, etc, etc - probably a bunch of Trekkies that stumbled across the site are bashing SWTOR out of that age old conflict.
Part of it may simply be the case that SWTOR is closer to launch - so, the game to bash is the game closer to launch. Part of that comes from the increased hype and hoopla leading up to a launch...some people just hate hype. A cure for cancer could have been found and it would be made available to the public in a month - it would be hyped to Hell and back . . . and that hype, even for a good thing - would result in bashing.
It's odd though, thinking about this, because I've seen more bashing of GW2 than SWTOR. It's almost as if the general public here knows on the subconscious level, not to say anything bad about SWTOR. You could call GW2 a flaming pile of roadkill poo...and folks might ignore you, argue with you, or toss a few flaming kittens at you. You say that SWTOR is anything less than 110% perfect . . . and . . . suddenly you're getting dinged on rating, you're getting posts reported left, right, and center. Basically, you end up feeling like you've triggered some sort of conspiracy of nerd rage. It's kind of funny, imho.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Yeah, I don't see much that is sandboxy about GW2. I see several things that are different from the "traditional" post wow mmo, but none of it is really sandboxy.
The whole my community vs your community argument makes me laugh. Both games are going to have fanboys,trolls,haters,brats etc. Hell.. EVERY mmorpg will have them. To base whether you're not willing to atleast TRY a game soley on the "ew this community is gonna suck" mindset is just....
Most people can't be neutral. Everyone wants to pick sides. Even real life is based on that human instinct. Religion, wars, politics all based on X. VS. Y. VS. Z.......
Well i cant really say because i have yet to play GW2..
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Simple. GW2 fans are also MMORPG players. While SWTOR fans are not. So they have nothing to say in my opinion because most of them have no idea what is going on in the genre or if other such games actually exist or existed.
SWTOR is bringing in to the genre many Fans of the IP that are thre simply because it is a SW based game.
And that would explain why most are oblivious to the Topics MMO vets are discussing about. For many of them SWTOR is like a dream come true.
Give them a few years and then they may become part of the genres fanbase too and will be joining the discussions as well.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
the bashing of TOR comes down to a few things. and trust me OP its been going on both ways
One, you are on MMORPG.com: the p;ace filled with people that got made at the lock of sandbox in fallen earth =]
two, people have seen what both games have to offer, some pick sides
three, some people do not think TOR is good for MMORPGs as a whole
four, people are misinformed about both games
five, people think GW2 will be like GW
and six, welcome to the internet, say anything you want
I'd agree if it weren't for the fact you can't even comment on a concern with GW2 without being accused of bashing the game or being a hater.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
... let's say it's a little of column A, a little of column B.
If you don't think there's a decent variety of GW2 bashers, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
I know sometimes people overreact (I would consider some people to merely be airing their differences, but I'm more tolerant than most people anyway), but I think it would be silly to say that there aren't a good portion of actual GW2 bashers and trolls out there too.
(I'm not going to name any names...)
I'm sure there are bashers, it wouldn't be a proper forum section without some blind hate here and there. My point was more about the idea of what is bashing and what is a general concern or critique, which seems to be overly confused in the GW2 section.
How many threads are started in that section daily declaring that the game is an outright fail? I don't see many, if anything i see far more of the exact opposite. Granted the GW2 section doesn't see as much traffic, but still the blind hate for GW2 has been mild in comparison to just about any MMO currently in development or released.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This thread is sorta lol...
STOP BULLYING it screams... even though it is as natural as that odd flower that stares at you every time you go outside slightly smiling, measuring you with it's eyes, studying you for every tiny little detail it can see, wanting you, wishing for you, dreaming....
Anywho, while yes there are some out there (both gw2 and swto, and every game in this world) you are gonna have haters. Some will make sense some will... be like that flower, creepy and sometimes mean and only wants you for one thing.... to fill their..... trolling needs. So please, if you really dislike it, just ignore the post and alert other people. Simple, easy, and hey, maybe a good read if someone falls for the troll. Don't act like swtor is the one hated on the most, (though there are reasons to...), it isn't. Please, look at WoW, I'm surprised they haven't made a fairy tale/ movie for all the trolls/ haters on that ****.
P.S. -> *Playing the world's smallest violin" during this whole thing.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Why does either one have to be "better". They each are a very seperate offering in the MMO fray. SWTOR is offering Bioware's signature storytelling and character interaction in a Star Wars (sci-fi) universe. GW2 is offering a dynamic world with a seemingly smaller personal story, but a story nonetheless in a fantasy universe. Both sound amazing and both look to offer a stellar experience. I don't see why one has to triumph over the other and I hope they both thrive and deliver so that I can finally start to add more options to my MMO plate.