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SWTOR: MMO Simulacrum

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  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by Lawlmonster

    Originally posted by maskedweasel


     

    While I agree with some of your post, we're simply of two different minds. It is true that if there had been a large negative response to TOR, this conversation wouldn't be happening. It's true that game development doesn't change on a dime, and that TOR isn't a bad game because it doesn't offer what everyone wants from it. That's about all we agree on, though, and I don't want to sound rude, or like I'm specifically trying to pick you out, but this type of attitude is generally the reason why we continue to see more of the same. That isn't to say that most people aren't looking for more of the same, or that developers aren't providing what appears to fulfill market desires, but that as MMO consumers we are probably far too forgiving.

     

     

     

    I agree with that to an extent,  we should strive to have all different kinds of games.  I like FPS games like BF3 and I like 3rd person shooters like GoW3.  I feel there is a lack of inspiration to (not innovate per se)  but to incorporate other game styles into the MMO genre.    

     

    We get more of the same because they make it, and people buy it,  but of course, thats cross genre too.  The difference is perspective.  People are expecting to play these games for years, and usually feel there is an investment involved.  You never really plan to invest a significant portion of time and money into other genres.  

     

    I think the market will eventually weed most of these games out.  In fact, I think SWTOR will be the last major traditional MMO we see for a while... simply because on the one hand,  if SWTOR does well, it shows developers the significant costs they would have to take on to reach a similar level of success.  If SWTOR does mediocre or poorly,  it shows developers that game development needs to make some changes and that design may be more critical then costs - putting out cheaper games with minimal content and growing.  Or it could go plenty of other ways I'm sure...  but my point stands that,  we won't be seeing another SWTOR, quite like this,  for a while.   



  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    Originally posted by sanosukex


    Originally posted by Wharg0ul

    FFS.....Bioware made trhe game they wanted to make. Play it and enjoy, or don't and play something else.

    It's THAT EASY.

    and when release comes that's what will happen. But till then we will come and bitch about it. This is no differen't than any other big MMO relase since EQ1 you honestly expected it to be differn't or you just new to MMOs :P

    No, I know. I've been around for a while image

    It just gets old. And it makes it REALLY hard for people who DO like a game to discuss it when every thread is derailed by complainers, or you have to sift through dozens of threads made by people who hate the game and don't even have their facts straight.

     

    I know what you mean.. although i have been bashing this game more or less I will be playing but still feel let down in a lot of aspects. Although I just started posting here I been reading forums here isnce this site was created and it's been the same since the start so i don't let the hate bother me no matter which side of the equation im on

  • nomssnomss Member UncommonPosts: 1,468

    How did you find such an expansive word?

  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Member UncommonPosts: 1,168

    The OP is entitled to his opinion and I agree to a small degree on some point, but the bottom line is this:

    If you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one....

    The game isnt perfect, but to it sure is fun!

    ***Bioware is considering implenting the double plunger as a legendary weapon!***

    All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
    Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Originally posted by nomss

    How did you find such an expansive word?

    Strangely enough, they used the word Simulacrum in The Matrix Online as some of the skills.  Interesting what you remember...  but I digress, that was the first time I came upon that particular word.



  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,395

    I absolutely despise people who create alt accounts to bash a game. Be a man and use your real account. This is coming from someone that does not enjoy SWTOR.

     

    OP, you knew this was a WoW clone going in. Why would do you act so let down?

  • DeeweDeewe Member UncommonPosts: 1,980

    Originally posted by RavingRabbid

    The OP is entitled to his opinion and I agree to a small degree on some point, but the bottom line is this:

    If you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one....

    The game isnt perfect, but to it sure is fun!

    ***Bioware is considering implenting the double plunger as a legendary weapon!***

    You do have a point. At least with the space shooter they made sure not to please all space sim fans and certainly not all non space sim fans either ;)

  • sanosukexsanosukex Member Posts: 1,836

    Originally posted by Deewe

    Originally posted by RavingRabbid

    The OP is entitled to his opinion and I agree to a small degree on some point, but the bottom line is this:

    If you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no one....

    The game isnt perfect, but to it sure is fun!

    ***Bioware is considering implenting the double plunger as a legendary weapon!***

    You do have a point. At least with the space shooter they made sure not to please all space sim fans and certainly not all non space sim fans either ;)

    LOL.. pretty sure the static world and lifeless statuesque npcs and uncustomizable UI is pleasing many people as well.. goal is to please the masses how else are you going to keep subscriptions?

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    If i never played to 10 and saw the skill trees and the terrible crafting system,i was satisfied enough to sub to this game.

    I still would have been frustrated knowing another dev missed the boat on FFXI's brilliant sub class design.The reason is i don't like the thought of putting al lthat time into my player,then i hit cap he is basically done.I like to keep that same player,go back and level up sub classes,i don't want to toss out that other player i worked hard at.Sure he is stil lthere in the game files,but if i am not logged into him,he might as well not be there,plus with nothing left for him to do ,he might as well not be there.

    IMO they just blew it,the yshoudl have kept the whole game from 1>10 then add in EQ2 ttype crafting or similiar.Then introduce special abilites along the way,i don''t need to change the class name to feel special.Then maybe  around level 30 or so introduce a specialty class gear set,sort of like Artifact gear from FFXI.

    There was absolutely NOTHING in the character developement,no piercing/slashing skills,no avoidance skills,no parrying skills just nothing.

    I feel Bioware created a VERY nice SHELL of a game,but forgot to finish it .../sigh this game had such great potential.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Badgered86Badgered86 Member UncommonPosts: 175

    Excellent write-up, OP.  You worded my disappointment with the game nearly perfectly.

  • AkaisAkais Member UncommonPosts: 274

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

     

    I think the market will eventually weed most of these games out.  In fact, I think SWTOR will be the last major traditional MMO we see for a while... simply because on the one hand,  if SWTOR does well, it shows developers the significant costs they would have to take on to reach a similar level of success.  If SWTOR does mediocre or poorly,  it shows developers that game development needs to make some changes and that design may be more critical then costs - putting out cheaper games with minimal content and growing.  Or it could go plenty of other ways I'm sure...  but my point stands that,  we won't be seeing another SWTOR, quite like this,  for a while.   

    Blizzard still has one in the works.

    I agree with you overall though as TOR's and GW2's reception is going to create some long lasting ripples in the way subscritption models and cash shops are handled with future games.

    That's about the only thing that really scares me...EA with a hit game and a cash shop <shudder>

  • SurrealFieUpSurrealFieUp Member UncommonPosts: 19

    After several hours, I was surprised to come back to this thread and see so many post and views.  Thank you to many who have absorbed the material and provided additional momentum to the ideal of the OP, and the subsequent follow-up post.  

    On the flip side, there are an ample number of you that prove blind devotion can and will continue to support a game manufacturers despite weakness of delivered product.  Not that the evidence wasn't easy to discern without your contributions to the thread.  Everyday I read stories about how they just finished BF and are now on to Skyrim, and wondering what they will do with their time until SWTOR comes out.  How these same people jump in and out of WOW still, looking for ways to kill time before 12/20.  What truly amazes me is how little immersion they must be experiencing from any of the titles, to need the next release so soon after the first.  

    It is very similar to movies these days.  People go and see, EVERYTHING.  From what I can tell very few people have filters for what will turn them on or not.  Movies that should never have made it to the silver-screen do, those that prove too cerebral often flop directly to DVD.  This mentality of see-play-do it all, the entitlement of modern society allows game producers and movie moguls alike to take advantage of our dollars and cents.  They have manipulated and trained many of you to expect fewer rewards for the same cost.  In the end they have altered your psyche to believe that it is acceptable to play a game for as few months or weeks as you do, then turn around and give them another $50+ for their next bit of weak-sauce marketing.  

    I cannot affect the gaming community as just one person.  I can only ask that people do what they feel is best for themselves and the community as a whole.  For those of you who probed about my affiliation with WOW, I say LOL.  They are some of the worst offenders. For years people have been playing the exact same game, old bosses surrounded by a new setting and more HP.  There are new races with different skin color and hairiness, but it doesn't change the fact that it is the same exact game.  They are the masterminds behind the need to create SWTOR, and other "MMO's."  Devices of unimpressive entertainment that are accepted as is, no questions asked.  And because no one demands more the game manufacturers win no matter what.  "It is what it is," a point made  from ten or so members, who felt it absolutely necessary to make that point, despite others having voiced the same opinion in posts prior to theirs, is the attitude my reviews and subsequent follow ups have been intended to curb.  

    And this is a new account, because I can't sit and abide by the same pablum over and over.  I've had enough of it.  There wasn't really a need to put up anything before.  I was sated with a game of chess from time to time since I left WOW last year.  I was sated to catch up with some of the books, TV and movies I missed over a five year time span of playing WOW.  The announcement of SWTOR release brought me out of my cave amped up and primed for battle.  

    I have been a gaming addict since the days of my first 8086 with some terrible monochrome screen playing Star Trek text game programed in BASIC.  I have seen the rise and fall of entertainment, of movies and genres of creativity that should have been larger successes, only to have been overwhelmed by the domination of sub-standard doppelgangers.  We have been on the precipice of new heights of game play for years, SWTOR via its teaser trailers and videos has been promising to fulfill that role, to replace the king, to boldly go where no man has gone before.  Only now the truth be told, their Beta-build shows that false advertising isn't a crime of yesteryear.  BioWare has done nothing more than catered to the needs of an audience perfectly satisfied with any old flotsam that comes along.

    Thanks for thoughtful, informative feedback, I look forward to continuing the debate as long as their is an audience for it.

  • kaliniskalinis Member Posts: 1,428

    Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

    After several hours, I was surprised to come back to this thread and see so many post and views.  Thank you to many who have absorbed the material and provided additional momentum to the ideal of the OP, and the subsequent follow-up post.  

    On the flip side, there are an ample number of you that prove blind devotion can and will continue to support a game manufacturers despite weakness of delivered product.  Not that the evidence wasn't easy to discern without your contributions to the thread.  Everyday I read stories about how they just finished BF and are now on to Skyrim, and wondering what they will do with their time until SWTOR comes out.  How these same people jump in and out of WOW still, looking for ways to kill time before 12/20.  What truly amazes me is how little immersion they must be experiencing from any of the titles, to need the next release so soon after the first.  

    It is very similar to movies these days.  People go and see, EVERYTHING.  From what I can tell very few people have filters for what will turn them on or not.  Movies that should never have made it to the silver-screen do, those that prove too cerebral often flop directly to DVD.  This mentality of see-play-do it all, the entitlement of modern society allows game producers and movie moguls alike to take advantage of our dollars and cents.  They have manipulated and trained many of you to expect fewer rewards for the same cost.  In the end they have altered your psyche to believe that it is acceptable to play a game for as few months or weeks as you do, then turn around and give them another $50+ for their next bit of weak-sauce marketing.  

    I cannot affect the gaming community as just one person.  I can only ask that people do what they feel is best for themselves and the community as a whole.  For those of you who probed about my affiliation with WOW, I say LOL.  They are some of the worst offenders. For years people have been playing the exact same game, old bosses surrounded by a new setting and more HP.  There are new races with different skin color and hairiness, but it doesn't change the fact that it is the same exact game.  They are the masterminds behind the need to create SWTOR, and other "MMO's."  Devices of unimpressive entertainment that are accepted as is, no questions asked.  And because no one demands more the game manufacturers win no matter what.  "It is what it is," a point made  from ten or so members, who felt it absolutely necessary to make that point, despite others having voiced the same opinion in posts prior to theirs, is the attitude my reviews and subsequent follow ups have been intended to curb.  

    And this is a new account, because I can't sit and abide by the same pablum over and over.  I've had enough of it.  There wasn't really a need to put up anything before.  I was sated with a game of chess from time to time since I left WOW last year.  I was sated to catch up with some of the books, TV and movies I missed over a five year time span of playing WOW.  The announcement of SWTOR release brought me out of my cave amped up and primed for battle.  

    I have been a gaming addict since the days of my first 8086 with some terrible monochrome screen playing Star Trek text game programed in BASIC.  I have seen the rise and fall of entertainment, of movies and genres of creativity that should have been larger successes, only to have been overwhelmed by the domination of sub-standard doppelgangers.  We have been on the precipice of new heights of game play for years, SWTOR via its teaser trailers and videos has been promising to fulfill that role, to replace the king, to boldly go where no man has gone before.  Only now the truth be told, their Beta-build shows that false advertising isn't a crime of yesteryear.  BioWare has done nothing more than catered to the needs of an audience perfectly satisfied with any old flotsam that comes along.

    Thanks for thoughtful, informative feedback, I look forward to continuing the debate as long as their is an audience for it.

    This entire post just proves very point i make about how haters think its there job to convince me what i shiould or shouldnt play. IM so tired of it

    I played tor beta. I loved the game. I loved teh graphics. I loved the story i got past a level so i actually left the starter worlds and went to dromund kaas where  because it was such a huge open planet people were whining that they had to actually walk lol

    The same people i might add that were whining it was claustrophobic on koriban the smallest planet in tor. 

    U dont have to like tor im not trying to convince u to like it. IM not even trying to convnce others outside of my gf to play this game but i already won her over. 

    I just want others out there who may have not actually tried beta to actually think this game sucks like haters say. 

    I just want those that might be thinking of playing this to realize that while i was in game 90 pct of the general chat responses were positive and i love this game. 

    i even saw alot of i was a hter but i love this game posts in chat. As well as i never was gonna play thisgame but now i treid beat im going to go buy it posts as well. 

    Im just saying to all those that might not of tried tor yet give it a shot yourself . U never know what your gonna like based on what others like. 

    I will say this is u dont like themepark mmos and u dont like bioware games in general u may not like tor but u never know till u try so if u are thinking of playing tor give it a shot what do u have t lose u get a free 30 days with purchase . all u lose is the 60 dollars u put down for the game. 

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063

    Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

    Snip

    Your version of crap is another person's entertainment. Your opinion is no more important than anyone elses. People have the right to watch or play what they want and they don't have to justify themselves for it. People like myself go to movies or play games as a form of escape. I don't go to the movies to have a point jammed in my face (as most shitty award winning movies are) and I don't look to live a second life in a video game. I want to be entertained and TOR is very appealing to me because it is fun. Period. I get no pleasure in playing a game where I have to watch a stupid bar in order to craft . It's nice to give those mundane, boring tasks to a companion while I do the more fun stuff. I get no  enjoyment out of grinding mobs or animals to level. Did that shit in SWG and it was the most monotonous boring thing ever and I'm suspected to pay a monthly sub for that? No thanks.  Being able to play house or swim is not as appealing as being part of well written story that I can decide the direction of. Like it or not, the companies that have the money are going to spend it where they get the best return on their investment and right now that means games with a slant more towards fun than the cerebral. 

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • a9taila9tail Member Posts: 45

     

     

     


    Hey


     


    Real World is strange place.Other Ppl do unreasonable things ....


     


    I don't understand why MW sells so well , i don't understand why ppl like Justin Biber. I don't get Opera. I don't get Iphone. 


     


    I don't understand why we agreed on pay monthly games. 


     


    I think that subscriptions are destroying genre , Its so much money that it makes ppl in corporations crazy. Amount of money and time that we invest in MMORPg stop us from moving to something different and maybe better. 


     


    I believe that Star wars TOR would be fine with GW model. There is nothing that it offers over other games on market. Online features are  in every other game. 


     


    I think that SW TOR is great game.


     


    its very mainstream orientated, design to be played on high end laptops (not gaming laptops) so focus on CPU instead of gpu.


     


     and it does not scale well on High-end gaming rigs. Art style is very Pop , parents will easily see it as kid s game. 


     


    It offers quite allot options to play solo, its almost design as SOLO mmorpg even if it sounds like PARADOX.  Lots of features are added just because RESPECTABLE  mmorpg should have them.


     


     but game is fun and feels Star Wars.


     


    And iam in love with STAR WARS since my father took me to cinema on Return of Jedi... 


     


    STAR WARS sticker is enough for me to buy something  (addidas  collection) and they know that.


     


    I spend countless hours with Force Unleashed and that was annoying frustrating crap.


     


    Its not  SWG 2 sandbox , and its not sp Kotor 3 .


     


    I would love both , but this is whot we get. No other choice really. 


     

  • dronfwardronfwar Member Posts: 316

    Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

     In the end they have altered your psyche to believe that it is acceptable to play a game for as few months or weeks as you do, then turn around and give them another $50+ for their next bit of weak-sauce marketing. 

    I didnt read the whole thread but this got my attention.

     


    few days before at swtor forums: (now deleted)

     


    Bioware?!?! NO EWOKS??! 


    Seriously what is this I don't even! ... I want to be a flat faced little gremlin bear thing. ... just saving them for some leet expansion so you can cash in on the teddy bear love.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Originally posted by SurrealFieUp

    And this is a new account, because I can't sit and abide by the same pablum over and over.  I've had enough of it.  There wasn't really a need to put up anything before.  I was sated with a game of chess from time to time since I left WOW last year.  I was sated to catch up with some of the books, TV and movies I missed over a five year time span of playing WOW.  The announcement of SWTOR release brought me out of my cave amped up and primed for battle.  

    Now there's a surprise. Someone who admits to having spent his money playing "Elves in Space" from the company that is now bringing us "Kung-Fu Panda vs. the Orcs" telling us we're too brainwashed to spend our own money on the correct games.

     

    Can you enlighten us with what future MMO you plan to spend your money on so that we may also choose wisely?...or at least give us an opportunity to point out to you how you're wasting your time and money? It's very easy to criticize what others like without saying what you like yourself.

     

    But... 5 years in WOW! Really? How can someone with your tolerance for mediocrity criticize anyone else's choice... I suspected the haters were mostly worried WOW fanbois...thanks for confirming it.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • kaliniskalinis Member Posts: 1,428

    im a wow fanboi and im gonna play tor. I dont hate tor or wow. Or any game for that matter . Its a game i may not enjoy playing lotro but i dont hate it , I may not have had any fun in aoc but i dont hate aoc. 

    In fact from my time in beta most of the haters are gw2 fans who had to keep telling us in general chat how stupid we were playing to and how much better then tor gw 2 was gonna be .

    u got yoru occasiona coh or wow fanboi but gw2 fans made up the majority of hate in chat in beta.

    That said there were a lot of wow players talking aobut how they were switching to tor . So i wouldnt blame wow players. most wow players ive seen and talked to love tor.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Originally posted by kalinis

    im a wow fanboi and im gonna play tor. I dont hate tor or wow. Or any game for that matter . Its a game i may not enjoy playing lotro but i dont hate it , I may not have had any fun in aoc but i dont hate aoc. 

    In fact from my time in beta most of the haters are gw2 fans who had to keep telling us in general chat how stupid we were playing to and how much better then tor gw 2 was gonna be .

    u got yoru occasiona coh or wow fanboi but gw2 fans made up the majority of hate in chat in beta.

    That said there were a lot of wow players talking aobut how they were switching to tor . So i wouldnt blame wow players. most wow players ive seen and talked to love tor.

    An honest opinion, honestly expressed with no pretentious fluff. Yours is the kind of post I can disagree with but respect.

     

    PS... I work with the biggest WOW fanboi in history...conventions...costumes...you name it... he also loves SWTOR and is trying to talk me into being a Sith with him instead of a Jedi...I know it's not all WOW fans but I do wonder where all these new "I-hate-TOR" accounts are coming from.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • BizkitNLBizkitNL Member RarePosts: 2,546

    Originally posted by stayontarget

    Originally posted by BizkitNL


    Originally posted by stayontarget

    I am seeing a lot of people posting "large wall of text...did not read"  and then spew their comments,  lame and quite disappointing.   I guess they will have no one to blame but themselves when they realize in a few months how shallow and sterile Tor really is.   The Tor community really reminds me of the Rift fans in this regard. 

    Now thats just being rude. People enjoy different games. Excuse us for liking SWTOR, oh great one.

    Rude in what way???

    The rift community was quite happy campers just before and during launch even when people were pointing obvious problems, yet they choose not to listen to the feed back.....copy/paste  tor.

     

    It's rude to state how ToR is shallow and that everyone that will play it will be disappointed. That the players somehow lack your wisdom in seeing that.

    10
  • PhillbillPhillbill Member Posts: 1

    I think people go and watch EVERYTHING like the op says and play always the same types of game

    because they are actually too busy living their lives to make a fuss and worry about how the

    entertainment industry has degraded over the years.

    As for myself i play videogames to have some fun, relax after work and to try to forget about how problematic life can be sometimes (silly, I know).

    Feel free to insult all the people that do enjoy the things you dont like,

    I will enjoy bioware's product even if it's not the best mmorpg that humanity has ever conceived and not make

    a pointless crusade to change how people with different points of views feel about the game.

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