I felt the same as the OP but after giving a few days I warmed up to it.
It's interesting you said that. I felt the same way as well. When i first played the game I wasn't overly impressed. But after a couple of days and playing around with various characters it started growing on me. When I was finished with the weekend beta I enjoyed the game enough to want to pre-order.
I was pretty much on the fence about this game because I had read so much of people really liking it or absolutely hating it. Until I got my hands on it and understood what I could get out of the game, that is when I was able to decide if I wanted to spend the money/time on it.
Originally posted by vesavius Originally posted by Creslin321 Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
I don't think you expected too much... I think EA/ BW delivered too little.
I would say he probably was. He played to level 10, which means he didn't even get into the real meat of the game as far as zones. It wasn't that Bioware offered 'too little", lol. It was that he experienced "too little".
That is expecting too much. Three days is usually too short a time to see if something meets your expectations in a mmo. Half of the people haven't even figured out how to use their base skills yet by that time or that they need to train them.
Expecting to be absolutely gobstruck after 10 levels is a bit unrealistic. I played FFXI for almost four years and wasn't overly impressed with the first ten levels. LOTRO was a game I loved, but the first ten levels weren't great either. Rift was pretty boring the first 10-20 levels in their noob zone.
AoC was the best from 1-20 to date before TOR, but that dropped off quickly afterwards because they started you off with heavy voice acting and cutscenes (and several dialogue choices I think) so you thought the whole game would be that way. Once you got out into the next levels, the level of voiceovers and cutscenes simply weren't as good, although better than a lot of other games.
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
I don't think you expected too much... I think EA/ BW delivered too little.
I am not really undertanding this trend for the players blaming themselves for this devs lacklustre derivative 'designed by accountant' efforts.
The truth is it SHOULD have been high quality because of it's 'developer cred' and the cash pumped into it.
As for the last point.. nah. My expectations are realistic enough that a few MMORPG makers out there are easily exceeding them. If EA/BW didn't then that's their failing, not mine for expecting something better then average off them.
I dont understand where they delivered too little.
They stated it was a themepark which it is.
Crafiing is like the normal formula of crafting in the latest mmos which it is except its with your companion not yourself.
They said it was going to be typical pvp like what the market is offering which they did and i feel added a little bit of a lore twist with Huttball.
The game was going to be Star Wars and was 300 years ahead of KOTOR which they did.
The were going to let you play Sith and Jedi right off the bat which they did.
They were having all the questing/conversasions being Voice Acting which they did.
The Flash points and raiding is like the normal formula of the current popular mmos which they did.
I just dont understand where anyone was thinking that they didnt deliver. Now I am not a big Bioware fan except for KOTOR 1 and 2 but I just dont understand this when someone post this onto a thread.
If you complain about the amount of money they are spending and the Bioware name being so big and expect the game to be the best game ever. Just look at other failed games that have come and gone like Tabula Rasa and SWG (Sony's fault lol) just for example that these were made with alot of backing and large companies. I know that the MMORPG.com community dont care what Sony creates they will refuse to play it just for the past experiences.
I admit, I felt more than the usual annoyance at the lightsabers clipping through toons and gear and that was because I knew how much it cost to make the game. In the back of my mind, I was thinking, why couldn't they spend some money getting the little details right?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I admit, I felt more than the usual annoyance at the lightsabers clipping through toons and gear and that was because I knew how much it cost to make the game. In the back of my mind, I was thinking, why couldn't they spend some money getting the little details right?
I feel their focus was on the voice acting and they did very well with that.
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
Believe it or not, yes and I think you aren't alone (I was similar until I discovered some odd info reading thru posts regarding the game).
Odd Information:
Game is built using the Hero Engine (Champions Online and the engine typically associated with Cryptic Studios) - good for making professional games quickly and easily not necessarily quality ones. BW has there own engine thats better and putting quality into a game with this engine is horrendously more difficult than usual with an Industry standard engine (Unreal and the various engines available to developers - yes I'm aware Unreal engine isn't an MMO engine its intended as an example as most wouldn't know the name of MMO engines) - it has its good points and its flaws.
Mass Effect 3 is still actively being produced - that would be kind of hard to pull off if that was the same teams assigned to SWTOR. I'm guessing SWTOR is being developed by BW's DLC/Patch/Maintenance team apparently since the style of the design resembles a maintenance programmers work (Discreet*) more than a Box game programmers work (Integrated*)
Mass Effect is Bioware IP even if they have business arrangements with EA: meaning EA doesn't get a straight cut of that IP's profits they get a cut of Bioware's overall profits and a publishers cut for box sales (not DLC unless said DLC is box sold). SWTOR on the other hand is split between BW and LA (EA still only gets a publisher cut even it is exclusive publishing rights and no cut of the subscriptions - beyond what the cut they get from overall Bioware profits).
As Bioware is a development house the primary factor of their worth is determined by the companies ability to 'develop' games and Biowares main development capability has been a certain flavor (story centric hybrids Action/Adventure/Tactical/RPG's) thats hasn't shown a lot of improvement and looks to have more or less peaked (being held back by technology). Consequently increasing the value of Bioware's diversification would yield greater increases than focusing on their strong point and wouldn't you know it - their DLC/Maintenance team that handles games after they've been released is actually pretty good compared to others in the industry and undeveloped for the most part (like an Indie company inside of a bigger company). If that team were to grow the value of Bioware's development capabilities would skyrocket (exponantial growth due volumetric[diversified] growth rather focused/Linear[specialised] growth.
I played the game during the Big Beta Weekend and will likely pre-order and play because of it. I think the game is bland compared to most games and sub par in a number of ways but it is:
Star Wars & It works
the Story is enjoyable, even if its the worst implementation of BW's story system I've seen but also the most extensive (less qualiity but a lot more quantity). when its not getting in the way (I think they need to add 'Story rules' kind of like Loot rules because having to fight with other players to affect story progression [and consequently character progression] was flat out annoying and other times it wasn't my progression and just didn't care but still had to choose and potentially screw up someone elses story - nice Co-Op feature but lousy with MMO's & PuG's).
Feature rich - lots and lots of features. (companions are probably one of the more popular ones for the simple reason that its an ego booster - a girlfriend/boyfriend/pet/etc. that interacts/flirts/gets PO'd/etc. with you constantly, actually jumps at your beck and call And you can send away/belittle/abuse/etc. at a whim without irrepairable consequence)
If you don't factor the Bioware history and reputation its not a bad game, its actually a good mix of features but it doesn't feel like what you'd expect from Bioware. Its not innovative really but its also not some underfunded/scrawny/clueless Indie company whose future is uncertain so the Bioware element has some positives in regards to survivability and experience but it really doesn't look like Biowares typical work, (if its the DLC team then a full game would be a big hurdle for them and honeslty the behaviour of the Dev Team looks more like someone used to dealing with problems with hindsight than anticipating them with foresight - even the code architecture design looks that way which is extremely different from what I've seen used in BW games previously - its literally the exact opposite end of the spectrum from what I've seen previously)
* look up engineering + Integrated or Discreet for more thorough explaination of those terms.
Someone name a better mmo than swtor that is available to play right now...im waiting.
Lets see...
Themeparks off the top of my head?
1. WoW
Better classes, game world, crafting, dungeon content and combat.
2. Lotro
Better game world, graphics, quest content, crafting and dungeon design
3. RIFT
Better Graphics, classes, Combat, Dungeon design and the world actually feels alive due to dynamic content
SWTOR has nice voice acting but the actual mmo features and the quality of the quest content (The tasks not the voice acting) is average at best.
This was a real good laugh, thank you for that.
In what way do you disagree? Certainly not the combat where WoW & Rift are concerned? And certainly not Graphics in Rift or Lotro (game world graphics DX11), certainly not Quest content and variety in WoW & Lotro? Certainly not Dungeon Design in WoW, Rift and Lotro?
Serious question where do you disagree? Flash points in SWTOR are pathetic once you take out the VO, Combat is only a tad faster than Lotro and much worse that both WoW and RIFT.
This whole tree is ridiculous as well as the question that spawned it, it's only better in your own minds....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I felt the same as the OP but after giving a few days I warmed up to it.
It's interesting you said that. I felt the same way as well. When i first played the game I wasn't overly impressed. But after a couple of days and playing around with various characters it started growing on me. When I was finished with the weekend beta I enjoyed the game enough to want to pre-order.
I was pretty much on the fence about this game because I had read so much of people really liking it or absolutely hating it. Until I got my hands on it and understood what I could get out of the game, that is when I was able to decide if I wanted to spend the money/time on it.
I heard this alot this last weekend Frog. Welcome aboard and hope to see you in the game.
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
I don't think you expected too much... I think EA/ BW delivered too little.
I am not really undertanding this trend for the players blaming themselves for this devs lacklustre derivative 'designed by accountant' efforts.
The truth is it SHOULD have been high quality because of it's 'developer cred' and the cash pumped into it.
As for the last point.. nah. My expectations are realistic enough that a few MMORPG makers out there are easily exceeding them. If EA/BW didn't then that's their failing, not mine for expecting something better then average off them.
You haven t said anything good about the game
I have said, repeatedly;
1. the environments are nice and pretty immersive.
2. I like the companion system.
3. the story areas are well done.
4. co-op conversations are good.
5. it will sell very well
So... yeah. I have said plenty that's good, repeatedly. It just get ignored in the rage posts that always focus on the critical observations I make.
Someone name a better mmo than swtor that is available to play right now...im waiting.
Lets see...
Themeparks off the top of my head?
1. WoW
Better classes, game world, crafting, dungeon content and combat.
2. Lotro
Better game world, graphics, quest content, crafting and dungeon design
3. RIFT
Better Graphics, classes, Combat, Dungeon design and the world actually feels alive due to dynamic content
SWTOR has nice voice acting but the actual mmo features and the quality of the quest content (The tasks not the voice acting) is average at best.
This was a real good laugh, thank you for that.
In what way do you disagree? Certainly not the combat where WoW & Rift are concerned? And certainly not Graphics in Rift or Lotro (game world graphics DX11), certainly not Quest content and variety in WoW & Lotro? Certainly not Dungeon Design in WoW, Rift and Lotro?
Serious question where do you disagree? Flash points in SWTOR are pathetic once you take out the VO, Combat is only a tad faster than Lotro and much worse that both WoW and RIFT.
This whole tree is ridiculous as well as the question that spawned it, it's only better in your own minds....
Exactly. I prefer the combat in swtor over any of those games mentioned. Graphics are good enough, and since the story and combat is way better TO ME that makes up for it. Flashpoints I loved VO or not. Dungeons in Rift to me are a joke and swtor has better, because I prefer the setting. Want me to go on.
As I said, it was a good laugh, because to me swtor is better then any of those games you mentioned , by a long shot, TO ME. Trying to convince me with your opinions aren t going to work, because, TO ME, you re wrong.
Some people just really really want you to know that they dislike the game;) i suggest get used to it because they will repeat same thing over and over and over againn till a new MMO is out.
and some people will really really defend a mediocre game no matter what. You should of seen the tabula rasa forums before there release looked similar to this. A lot of people praised it to no end because why? Lord British was creator and was trying something new. And how did that turn out ????? oh yea it tanked. Just putting Star Wars on the label automatically equates to millions and sales no matter how crappy the end product actually is. Saying that the game is decent enough to warrant a play through for a few months for any star wars fan BUT it's definatly not the GREAT game so many people on here are making it out to be
Uhgg, do people even understand what an opinion is? It's both the worst game ever and the best game ever depending on who you ask. There's no universal gauge to say what is great and what isn't, nor what is just okay, it's a matter of opinion. That opinion will change from person to person, arguing over it from page to page will not change that, it's pointless and a waste of space.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Some people just really really want you to know that they dislike the game;) i suggest get used to it because they will repeat same thing over and over and over againn till a new MMO is out.
and some people will really really defend a mediocre game no matter what. You should of seen the tabula rasa forums before there release looked similar to this. A lot of people praised it to no end because why? Lord British was creator and was trying something new. And how did that turn out ????? oh yea it tanked. Just putting Star Wars on the label automatically equates to millions and sales no matter how crappy the end product actually is. Saying that the game is decent enough to warrant a play through for a few months for any star wars fan BUT it's definatly not the GREAT game so many people on here are making it out to be
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
I went into the beta weekend with almost all of the same considerations you did except I came out of the beta weekend impressed. I was pretty much expecting an upgraded wow and that is what I found for the most part however I greatly underestimated the story elements that SWTOR would have on me. I found myself immersed to the point that the core gameplay was entertaining me which doesn't happen to me in other mmos like wow.
actually you are wrong, all you have to do is hit the spacebar and it jumps ahead the the decision you need to make. So you do not have to sit through every cut scene.The only one you cant is the openning scene for the class you chose.
Even that has an option to skip. And you are right, if you dont like listening - hit spacebar and read the text instead (another option). Not sure why everyone is getting hung up on an optional part of the game.
I prefer sandboxes or hybrids like SWG or FE, which means nothing because I enjoyed the time I've spent in TOR as well as the time I spent in AOC. A preference one way or another shouldn't discount an opinion, there's more than shades of just black and white out there.
I prefer RPG's in general but i love the Fight Night series, will play MK titles as well. I also enjoy strategy gaming somewhat.
In short just because someone may prefer sandbox games, it doesn't mean they can't have a reasonable opinion of another sub-genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think the game really fails in its starting areas, and the entire starting experience. For every class I played at least.
So this was the first MMO to give character classes true individual stories, and their own starting areas to bring them into it and learn it, and it FAILS?! What are you comparing them to, Skyrim?
Hold the press here.
Did they add 4 starter areas to this latest beta?
Because earlier there was 4 starter areas, two for republic and two for empire. And individual starter stories were just a tad different kill 4 this and touch 2 times of that.
Yes, it will probably evolve to kill 4 harder to kill this and touch 2 bigger that but nevertheless I don't think that is really ground breaking.
This Pelaaja tells me that you did not play the game and actually have very little understanding of what they did for the questing. I also have to disagree with the original poster since my own experience has shown me that the starting areas are pretty good, not stupendous by any means but an 8 out of 10 at least for an average score. The thing is each one varies according to the tastes of the player. I have seen a lot of people saying the IA starter areas and quests were amazing, I found them boring. It was a good story mind you, just not my style of play. On the other hand the general feeling here seems to be that the Jedi area and stories are boring, while I found both of them to be very entertaining, while the smuggler and bounty hunter were much better stories than the IA, but nice quite as good as the Jedi. The SI story and quest though I found absolutely amazing. I can't wait to try out the SW and Trooper though since those two classes are the ones i really want to play.
Now I grant you, most of that is personal opinion, but that is exactly my point about the original poster. Your statement on the questing though is just factually incorrect.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I prefer sandboxes or hybrids like SWG or FE, which means nothing because I enjoyed the time I've spent in TOR as well as the time I spent in AOC. A preference one way or another shouldn't discount an opinion, there's more than shades of just black and white out there.
I prefer RPG's in general but i love the Fight Night series, will play MK titles as well. I also enjoy strategy gaming somewhat.
In short just because someone may prefer sandbox games, it doesn't mean they can't have a reasonable opinion of another sub-genre.
it does matter, if someone told me they like pvp and want a game that is big in open pvp then i would recommend LOTRO to them. I like sandbox and hybrids as well and I have owned every game that came in a box and find my self chancing the game taht has the best community for me and find that alot of those games werent for me b/c the community leaves so fast that its hard to stay interested. They talked very negitave and just was wondering what type games they liked it was going to be a slam or anything. it was a question lol.
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
The hype didnt raise my expectations...i didnt believe the 'epic space combat!!!!' etc but the amount of money put into it and although it has ea/lucas all over it i was excited with bioware making it.
I got to level 40 on several toons over a few beta builds and yes i was extremely dissapointed with the product.
I am not sure how ToR does things better than say WoW, Rift or LotRO for anything apart from voice acting ..crafting/housing/pvp/companions?? i think they are all super shallow and kinda suck but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion - personally i find little great about ToR apart from storyline which is meh for me as i prefer making my own story in a game...if i want to follow someone elses vision then ill read a book.
So OP yep i agree with you (and so what if he only made it to lvl 10? its enough to form a valid opinion unless mine is invalid because i only made it to level 40)
Some people just really really want you to know that they dislike the game;) i suggest get used to it because they will repeat same thing over and over and over againn till a new MMO is out.
and some people will really really defend a mediocre game no matter what. You should of seen the tabula rasa forums before there release looked similar to this. A lot of people praised it to no end because why? Lord British was creator and was trying something new. And how did that turn out ????? oh yea it tanked. Just putting Star Wars on the label automatically equates to millions and sales no matter how crappy the end product actually is. Saying that the game is decent enough to warrant a play through for a few months for any star wars fan BUT it's definatly not the GREAT game so many people on here are making it out to be
And what type mmos do you enjoy?
I'm a MMO addict and ill admit it. I play everything. I have played pretty much everything(obviously not every free MMO but a LOT of them). So no one can say well of course you think this game isn't great cause you don't like themepark games or you don't like story games. Outside MMO's all I play are RPG's.
I knew before this title became a game not to expect too much,but like the title suggests ,i too expected too much.
I really do feel this game was on the right track to become a really good game.The problem began as soon as i heard they had a definite release date set around the same gimmick Blizzard uses ,which is Christmas launches,i knew it was doomed.
This told me it was no longer about the game but all about a time line that had to be met at the cost of the game.SWTOR is a true brilliant shell of a game with the potential to be better than every over game,but it falls 1-2 years short of production.
Yes of course there will ALWAYS be players no matter what kind of condition a game releases in,i have seen tons of gamers in freeware games,2D pay to win games all kinds of games.
So many seem to justify games by numbers,they need be reminded of Farmville and Habo hotel,numbers mean nothing.Only people with the knowledge and the developer themselves know what kind of effort was put into a game.I can see where there is very good effort and very little effort,it means a product thet never got to be as goods as it could be.
I beleive GREED is the overlying factor,a game like FFXI was released with expectations of breaking even after 5 years,now developers want instant profits or can only wait 1 year to to turn a profit.This means less time and cost to development,which automatically means unfinished games or games full of holes ,cutting corners but never as good as it could be.
The 38 studios is the ONLY developer i have ever witness to spend probably close to 100 million without a known IP to back it up.SWTOR was an easy profit for EA,so they SHOULD have afforded the game it's proper developement time.Even the 38 studios game was cut short,it was SUPPOSE to be a grand MMO but becuase of cost will stop short and be only a single player game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
The hype didnt raise my expectations...i didnt believe the 'epic space combat!!!!' etc but the amount of money put into it and although it has ea/lucas all over it i was excited with bioware making it.
I got to level 40 on several toons over a few beta builds and yes i was extremely dissapointed with the product.
I am not sure how ToR does things better than say WoW, Rift or LotRO for anything apart from voice acting ..crafting/housing/pvp/companions?? i think they are all super shallow and kinda suck but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion - personally i find little great about ToR apart from storyline which is meh for me as i prefer making my own story in a game...if i want to follow someone elses vision then ill read a book.
So OP yep i agree with you (and so what if he only made it to lvl 10? its enough to form a valid opinion unless mine is invalid because i only made it to level 40)
Isnt this how all RPG's are? Its like a book you follow what the author is sending you. I want to also ask why did you continue to beta test the game? By lvl 40 if you dont like it or dont think its that great then why would you make another toon and level it that high again and another lol. I am just curious. If I didnt care for a game after reaching 80 - 85% of the leveling and know that it has a litle bi of raid content and the pvp is the same if you do it from lvl 10 or lvl 50 I would have quit even if i was beta testing it.
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
The hype didnt raise my expectations...i didnt believe the 'epic space combat!!!!' etc but the amount of money put into it and although it has ea/lucas all over it i was excited with bioware making it.
I got to level 40 on several toons over a few beta builds and yes i was extremely dissapointed with the product.
I am not sure how ToR does things better than say WoW, Rift or LotRO for anything apart from voice acting ..crafting/housing/pvp/companions?? i think they are all super shallow and kinda suck but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion - personally i find little great about ToR apart from storyline which is meh for me as i prefer making my own story in a game...if i want to follow someone elses vision then ill read a book.
So OP yep i agree with you (and so what if he only made it to lvl 10? its enough to form a valid opinion unless mine is invalid because i only made it to level 40)
Those of you who know me have probably seen that I've been fairly critical of SWTOR since I played the beta weekend. I played Jedi Knight to level 10 and was kind of turned off by the experience.
But in thinking about it, I realize that maybe I just expected too much from the game. There is a lot of hype surrounding this game, it's developed by a major AAA developer, and it's no secret that tons of money and time went into it. I don't think I was really hyped for the game, I just expected it to be very high quality because of its developer cred.
So even though I knew the game was going to follow the WoW formula (which I dislike), I expected it to be an "awesome" example of a WoW formula game, but found it to be only "decent." This was a let down and basically caused me to view the game negatively.
But in retrospect, I think that if this wasn't a Bioware game with five bajillion dollars behind it, I probably would not have been nearly as critical, and may have enjoyed the game much more. Does anyone else feel the same? Do you feel like the hype that has been generated on this game raised your expectations too high?
The hype didnt raise my expectations...i didnt believe the 'epic space combat!!!!' etc but the amount of money put into it and although it has ea/lucas all over it i was excited with bioware making it.
I got to level 40 on several toons over a few beta builds and yes i was extremely dissapointed with the product.
I am not sure how ToR does things better than say WoW, Rift or LotRO for anything apart from voice acting ..crafting/housing/pvp/companions?? i think they are all super shallow and kinda suck but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion - personally i find little great about ToR apart from storyline which is meh for me as i prefer making my own story in a game...if i want to follow someone elses vision then ill read a book.
So OP yep i agree with you (and so what if he only made it to lvl 10? its enough to form a valid opinion unless mine is invalid because i only made it to level 40)
Isnt this how all RPG's are?
No.
Why isnt reading a book like all the RPG's on the market? Isnt RPG's based off of telling a story. Granted they have side stories but I have not seen an RPG that allows you to create a story of your own and go with it. Look at Console RPG's Mass Effect, Fallout, Final Fantasy series, etc. Look at MMORPG's WOW each expansion is telling a story, Conan, LOTRO etc. Now Sandbox games I can give you that but SWTOR isnt a Sandbox game so I would say you cant compare the two. Its like comparing SWTOR to SWG. Bioware from the start stated this was not going to be a Sandbox so why would you play it thinking that its not going to be like a book just like all the other Bioware products?
Comments
It's interesting you said that. I felt the same way as well. When i first played the game I wasn't overly impressed. But after a couple of days and playing around with various characters it started growing on me. When I was finished with the weekend beta I enjoyed the game enough to want to pre-order.
I was pretty much on the fence about this game because I had read so much of people really liking it or absolutely hating it. Until I got my hands on it and understood what I could get out of the game, that is when I was able to decide if I wanted to spend the money/time on it.
I don't think you expected too much... I think EA/ BW delivered too little.
I would say he probably was. He played to level 10, which means he didn't even get into the real meat of the game as far as zones. It wasn't that Bioware offered 'too little", lol. It was that he experienced "too little".
That is expecting too much. Three days is usually too short a time to see if something meets your expectations in a mmo. Half of the people haven't even figured out how to use their base skills yet by that time or that they need to train them.
Expecting to be absolutely gobstruck after 10 levels is a bit unrealistic. I played FFXI for almost four years and wasn't overly impressed with the first ten levels. LOTRO was a game I loved, but the first ten levels weren't great either. Rift was pretty boring the first 10-20 levels in their noob zone.
AoC was the best from 1-20 to date before TOR, but that dropped off quickly afterwards because they started you off with heavy voice acting and cutscenes (and several dialogue choices I think) so you thought the whole game would be that way. Once you got out into the next levels, the level of voiceovers and cutscenes simply weren't as good, although better than a lot of other games.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I dont understand where they delivered too little.
They stated it was a themepark which it is.
Crafiing is like the normal formula of crafting in the latest mmos which it is except its with your companion not yourself.
They said it was going to be typical pvp like what the market is offering which they did and i feel added a little bit of a lore twist with Huttball.
The game was going to be Star Wars and was 300 years ahead of KOTOR which they did.
The were going to let you play Sith and Jedi right off the bat which they did.
They were having all the questing/conversasions being Voice Acting which they did.
The Flash points and raiding is like the normal formula of the current popular mmos which they did.
I just dont understand where anyone was thinking that they didnt deliver. Now I am not a big Bioware fan except for KOTOR 1 and 2 but I just dont understand this when someone post this onto a thread.
If you complain about the amount of money they are spending and the Bioware name being so big and expect the game to be the best game ever. Just look at other failed games that have come and gone like Tabula Rasa and SWG (Sony's fault lol) just for example that these were made with alot of backing and large companies. I know that the MMORPG.com community dont care what Sony creates they will refuse to play it just for the past experiences.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I feel their focus was on the voice acting and they did very well with that.
Believe it or not, yes and I think you aren't alone (I was similar until I discovered some odd info reading thru posts regarding the game).
Odd Information:
Game is built using the Hero Engine (Champions Online and the engine typically associated with Cryptic Studios) - good for making professional games quickly and easily not necessarily quality ones. BW has there own engine thats better and putting quality into a game with this engine is horrendously more difficult than usual with an Industry standard engine (Unreal and the various engines available to developers - yes I'm aware Unreal engine isn't an MMO engine its intended as an example as most wouldn't know the name of MMO engines) - it has its good points and its flaws.
Mass Effect 3 is still actively being produced - that would be kind of hard to pull off if that was the same teams assigned to SWTOR. I'm guessing SWTOR is being developed by BW's DLC/Patch/Maintenance team apparently since the style of the design resembles a maintenance programmers work (Discreet*) more than a Box game programmers work (Integrated*)
Mass Effect is Bioware IP even if they have business arrangements with EA: meaning EA doesn't get a straight cut of that IP's profits they get a cut of Bioware's overall profits and a publishers cut for box sales (not DLC unless said DLC is box sold). SWTOR on the other hand is split between BW and LA (EA still only gets a publisher cut even it is exclusive publishing rights and no cut of the subscriptions - beyond what the cut they get from overall Bioware profits).
As Bioware is a development house the primary factor of their worth is determined by the companies ability to 'develop' games and Biowares main development capability has been a certain flavor (story centric hybrids Action/Adventure/Tactical/RPG's) thats hasn't shown a lot of improvement and looks to have more or less peaked (being held back by technology). Consequently increasing the value of Bioware's diversification would yield greater increases than focusing on their strong point and wouldn't you know it - their DLC/Maintenance team that handles games after they've been released is actually pretty good compared to others in the industry and undeveloped for the most part (like an Indie company inside of a bigger company). If that team were to grow the value of Bioware's development capabilities would skyrocket (exponantial growth due volumetric[diversified] growth rather focused/Linear[specialised] growth.
I played the game during the Big Beta Weekend and will likely pre-order and play because of it. I think the game is bland compared to most games and sub par in a number of ways but it is:
Star Wars & It works
the Story is enjoyable, even if its the worst implementation of BW's story system I've seen but also the most extensive (less qualiity but a lot more quantity). when its not getting in the way (I think they need to add 'Story rules' kind of like Loot rules because having to fight with other players to affect story progression [and consequently character progression] was flat out annoying and other times it wasn't my progression and just didn't care but still had to choose and potentially screw up someone elses story - nice Co-Op feature but lousy with MMO's & PuG's).
Feature rich - lots and lots of features. (companions are probably one of the more popular ones for the simple reason that its an ego booster - a girlfriend/boyfriend/pet/etc. that interacts/flirts/gets PO'd/etc. with you constantly, actually jumps at your beck and call And you can send away/belittle/abuse/etc. at a whim without irrepairable consequence)
If you don't factor the Bioware history and reputation its not a bad game, its actually a good mix of features but it doesn't feel like what you'd expect from Bioware. Its not innovative really but its also not some underfunded/scrawny/clueless Indie company whose future is uncertain so the Bioware element has some positives in regards to survivability and experience but it really doesn't look like Biowares typical work, (if its the DLC team then a full game would be a big hurdle for them and honeslty the behaviour of the Dev Team looks more like someone used to dealing with problems with hindsight than anticipating them with foresight - even the code architecture design looks that way which is extremely different from what I've seen used in BW games previously - its literally the exact opposite end of the spectrum from what I've seen previously)
* look up engineering + Integrated or Discreet for more thorough explaination of those terms.
This whole tree is ridiculous as well as the question that spawned it, it's only better in your own minds....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I heard this alot this last weekend Frog. Welcome aboard and hope to see you in the game.
I have said, repeatedly;
1. the environments are nice and pretty immersive.
2. I like the companion system.
3. the story areas are well done.
4. co-op conversations are good.
5. it will sell very well
So... yeah. I have said plenty that's good, repeatedly. It just get ignored in the rage posts that always focus on the critical observations I make.
But, anyhow... it's just a game so no biggie
Exactly. I prefer the combat in swtor over any of those games mentioned. Graphics are good enough, and since the story and combat is way better TO ME that makes up for it. Flashpoints I loved VO or not. Dungeons in Rift to me are a joke and swtor has better, because I prefer the setting. Want me to go on.
As I said, it was a good laugh, because to me swtor is better then any of those games you mentioned , by a long shot, TO ME. Trying to convince me with your opinions aren t going to work, because, TO ME, you re wrong.
Lets cut out the personal attacks.
Uhgg, do people even understand what an opinion is? It's both the worst game ever and the best game ever depending on who you ask. There's no universal gauge to say what is great and what isn't, nor what is just okay, it's a matter of opinion. That opinion will change from person to person, arguing over it from page to page will not change that, it's pointless and a waste of space.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And what type mmos do you enjoy?
I went into the beta weekend with almost all of the same considerations you did except I came out of the beta weekend impressed. I was pretty much expecting an upgraded wow and that is what I found for the most part however I greatly underestimated the story elements that SWTOR would have on me. I found myself immersed to the point that the core gameplay was entertaining me which doesn't happen to me in other mmos like wow.
Even that has an option to skip. And you are right, if you dont like listening - hit spacebar and read the text instead (another option). Not sure why everyone is getting hung up on an optional part of the game.
I prefer sandboxes or hybrids like SWG or FE, which means nothing because I enjoyed the time I've spent in TOR as well as the time I spent in AOC. A preference one way or another shouldn't discount an opinion, there's more than shades of just black and white out there.
I prefer RPG's in general but i love the Fight Night series, will play MK titles as well. I also enjoy strategy gaming somewhat.
In short just because someone may prefer sandbox games, it doesn't mean they can't have a reasonable opinion of another sub-genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This Pelaaja tells me that you did not play the game and actually have very little understanding of what they did for the questing. I also have to disagree with the original poster since my own experience has shown me that the starting areas are pretty good, not stupendous by any means but an 8 out of 10 at least for an average score. The thing is each one varies according to the tastes of the player. I have seen a lot of people saying the IA starter areas and quests were amazing, I found them boring. It was a good story mind you, just not my style of play. On the other hand the general feeling here seems to be that the Jedi area and stories are boring, while I found both of them to be very entertaining, while the smuggler and bounty hunter were much better stories than the IA, but nice quite as good as the Jedi. The SI story and quest though I found absolutely amazing. I can't wait to try out the SW and Trooper though since those two classes are the ones i really want to play.
Now I grant you, most of that is personal opinion, but that is exactly my point about the original poster. Your statement on the questing though is just factually incorrect.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
it does matter, if someone told me they like pvp and want a game that is big in open pvp then i would recommend LOTRO to them. I like sandbox and hybrids as well and I have owned every game that came in a box and find my self chancing the game taht has the best community for me and find that alot of those games werent for me b/c the community leaves so fast that its hard to stay interested. They talked very negitave and just was wondering what type games they liked it was going to be a slam or anything. it was a question lol.
The hype didnt raise my expectations...i didnt believe the 'epic space combat!!!!' etc but the amount of money put into it and although it has ea/lucas all over it i was excited with bioware making it.
I got to level 40 on several toons over a few beta builds and yes i was extremely dissapointed with the product.
I am not sure how ToR does things better than say WoW, Rift or LotRO for anything apart from voice acting ..crafting/housing/pvp/companions?? i think they are all super shallow and kinda suck but i guess everyone is entitled to their opinion - personally i find little great about ToR apart from storyline which is meh for me as i prefer making my own story in a game...if i want to follow someone elses vision then ill read a book.
So OP yep i agree with you (and so what if he only made it to lvl 10? its enough to form a valid opinion unless mine is invalid because i only made it to level 40)
I'm a MMO addict and ill admit it. I play everything. I have played pretty much everything(obviously not every free MMO but a LOT of them). So no one can say well of course you think this game isn't great cause you don't like themepark games or you don't like story games. Outside MMO's all I play are RPG's.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I knew before this title became a game not to expect too much,but like the title suggests ,i too expected too much.
I really do feel this game was on the right track to become a really good game.The problem began as soon as i heard they had a definite release date set around the same gimmick Blizzard uses ,which is Christmas launches,i knew it was doomed.
This told me it was no longer about the game but all about a time line that had to be met at the cost of the game.SWTOR is a true brilliant shell of a game with the potential to be better than every over game,but it falls 1-2 years short of production.
Yes of course there will ALWAYS be players no matter what kind of condition a game releases in,i have seen tons of gamers in freeware games,2D pay to win games all kinds of games.
So many seem to justify games by numbers,they need be reminded of Farmville and Habo hotel,numbers mean nothing.Only people with the knowledge and the developer themselves know what kind of effort was put into a game.I can see where there is very good effort and very little effort,it means a product thet never got to be as goods as it could be.
I beleive GREED is the overlying factor,a game like FFXI was released with expectations of breaking even after 5 years,now developers want instant profits or can only wait 1 year to to turn a profit.This means less time and cost to development,which automatically means unfinished games or games full of holes ,cutting corners but never as good as it could be.
The 38 studios is the ONLY developer i have ever witness to spend probably close to 100 million without a known IP to back it up.SWTOR was an easy profit for EA,so they SHOULD have afforded the game it's proper developement time.Even the 38 studios game was cut short,it was SUPPOSE to be a grand MMO but becuase of cost will stop short and be only a single player game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Isnt this how all RPG's are? Its like a book you follow what the author is sending you. I want to also ask why did you continue to beta test the game? By lvl 40 if you dont like it or dont think its that great then why would you make another toon and level it that high again and another lol. I am just curious. If I didnt care for a game after reaching 80 - 85% of the leveling and know that it has a litle bi of raid content and the pvp is the same if you do it from lvl 10 or lvl 50 I would have quit even if i was beta testing it.
No.
oh, nevermind...
Why isnt reading a book like all the RPG's on the market? Isnt RPG's based off of telling a story. Granted they have side stories but I have not seen an RPG that allows you to create a story of your own and go with it. Look at Console RPG's Mass Effect, Fallout, Final Fantasy series, etc. Look at MMORPG's WOW each expansion is telling a story, Conan, LOTRO etc. Now Sandbox games I can give you that but SWTOR isnt a Sandbox game so I would say you cant compare the two. Its like comparing SWTOR to SWG. Bioware from the start stated this was not going to be a Sandbox so why would you play it thinking that its not going to be like a book just like all the other Bioware products?