A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm. WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe. SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe. Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market.
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic. We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing. See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but Idont because its pointless and isst even true. So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.
So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.
High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.
The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.
High Fantasy is not going anywhere and neither should it. I would almost classify Star Wars as futuristic high fantasy.
Reading quest dialogue isn't boring or dull for people who actually have an imagination and are proficient readers.
I agree, people are just too lazy anymore. I noticed exactly the same thing with movies as well. Silent movies where not only fine but better in a lot of ways. They would put the dialog right up there on the cuts and for people who actually have an imagination and are proficient readers it was great. So much more artistic flexibility. I don't see any reason why these talkies are so popular now.
Originally posted by pmaura Originally posted by popinjay
Originally posted by Zylaxx
A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm. WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe. SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe. Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market.
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic. We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing. See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but Idont because its pointless and isst even true. So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.
So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.
High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.
The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.
High Fantasy is not going anywhere and neither should it. I would almost classify Star Wars as futuristic high fantasy. Misread. I never claimed it was "going someplace".
I'm saying companies aren't making these kinds of mmos anymore for the most part because we've been saturated over the last decade with them. People are tired of looking at pointy ears and beer mugs and would like something different.
Imo, it's part and parcel of why the clones never lasted. The games weren't as good as the original (EQ) and didn't have a good story so they got old fast. Now it's just rehash of the same story like Rift did:
Two factions. We hate each other. There is a 'bigger' threat. And some dragons.
Speak for yourself, I'm still waiting on a very open high fantasy mmo. I will never get tired of traditional mmo thinking and will get tired of developers who "think" they know what is what but don't know what is what, wtf.
Anyone want to translate this?
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
A little game called Skyrim just came out and took the world by storm. WoW still is the Behemoth of the MMO universe. SWOR is coming out with record numbers and isntead of catering to the Sci-Fi crowd it comes out rocking the whole "fantasy" vibe. Theres what like 50 million fantasy MMO's and soemthing like 3 Sci-Fi MMO's on the market.
I dunno I could point to every indicator that tells me that fantasy is alive and just fine but your incessent whining about anything fantasy is down right brutal and idiotic. We get it you despise fantasy, but just because you dont like something doesnt mean is dieing. See I could say the same thing about anything even Sci-Fi but Idont because its pointless and isst even true. So for fracks sake can it with the whole "fantasy is dieing" bullcrap already because it makes you look stupid.
So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.
High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.
The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.
Speak for yourself, I'm still waiting on a very open high fantasy mmo.
none have open world city building and open world seiging like Shadowbane. Age of Conan comes close but it is instance, every game you listed either fails in pvp, pve or both.
Darkfall has to many exploits and Mortal Online is fps veiw, bothi things I hate in my mmo.
I'm still waiting.
I'm still waiting for the next Shadowbane as well. I just couldn't get into Darkfall at all.
I never expected the talking quest NPC thing to affect my experience that much but after playing SWTOR and Skyrim you really see how much weight the voiceover interaction gives the proceedings.
Yeah, felt something similar when playing my first user made NWN module, right after finishing the game, but it passes, especially if a story is good. I like VO, but a good story will still give a good experience, and a voice over will not make a poor story good.
I don't quite get the hype, every decent single player RPG uses VO, I consider it a feature that has been lacking from MMO's fro too long, rather then something new and (the i-word goes here)
No. That's not why people bought the game. They bought the game because of R I F T S.
If they bought it because they could "shift on the fly", why did they leave if they can still "shift on the fly", lol? That part of the game hasn't changed since beta.
But rifts have. They became less and less important and that's why people left. You seem to think people play games for some character gimmick or mechanic when I think people play games for fun.
rifts soul system and its rifts/invasions is no more of a "gimmick" than TOR's voice overs. IMO it's not a gimmick in either game its a core part of the game itself. But if you are going to label it a gimmick you would have to label TOR's voice overs the same since essentially it doesn't add to the core gameplay mechanics of the game if that's how you view rifts soul system.
No. That's not why people bought the game. They bought the game because of R I F T S. If they bought it because they could "shift on the fly", why did they leave if they can still "shift on the fly", lol? That part of the game hasn't changed since beta. But rifts have. They became less and less important and that's why people left. You seem to think people play games for some character gimmick or mechanic when I think people play games for fun.
rifts soul system and its rifts/invasions is no more of a "gimmick" than TOR's voice overs. IMO it's not a gimmick in either game its a core part of the game itself. But if you are going to label it a gimmick you would have to label TOR's voice overs the same since essentially it doesn't add to the core gameplay mechanics of the game if that's how you view rifts soul system.
a : an important feature that is not immediately apparent : catch b : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle c : a trick or device used to attract business or attention <a marketing gimmick>
They both are. The problem is, "shifting on the fly" isn't important as it's just more convenient. Any dungeon in Rift can be done without anyone NEEDING to switch souls so it's not really that important. You could complete any dungeon or raid in Rift with base classes and nothing fancy; the only thing is you can switch another soul and it's slightly easier, that's all. But 51 point classes can do it all, so just put those on and go do the dungeon.
But story is the important gimmick in TOR. No story, no game. Or just like every other game out there.. average gameplay with poor story which surpisingly is Rift.
The story is the gimmick that keeps adventurers playing. They don't play because they can swap souls in games or else everyone would be flocking to Rift instead of ToR right now.
Originally posted by sanosukex Originally posted by popinjay
No. That's not why people bought the game. They bought the game because of R I F T S. If they bought it because they could "shift on the fly", why did they leave if they can still "shift on the fly", lol? That part of the game hasn't changed since beta. But rifts have. They became less and less important and that's why people left. You seem to think people play games for some character gimmick or mechanic when I think people play games for fun.
rifts soul system and its rifts/invasions is no more of a "gimmick" than TOR's voice overs. IMO it's not a gimmick in either game its a core part of the game itself. But if you are going to label it a gimmick you would have to label TOR's voice overs the same since essentially it doesn't add to the core gameplay mechanics of the game if that's how you view rifts soul system.
a : an important feature that is not immediately apparent : catch b : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle c : a trick or device used to attract business or attention
They both are.
according to that everything new in TOR would be considered a gimmick then
none have open world city building and open world seiging like Shadowbane. Age of Conan comes close but it is instance, every game you listed either fails in pvp, pve or both.
Darkfall has to many exploits and Mortal Online is fps veiw, bothi things I hate in my mmo.
I'm still waiting.
I'm still waiting for the next Shadowbane as well. I just couldn't get into Darkfall at all.
Couldn't get into Darkfall either as they emphasized pvp far too much over pve. I warned them on their boards over and over again (back during the pre-release Forumfall days ... nastiest forums of ALL TIME) that great sandbox pvp is CREATED from having a fully fleshed out pve world. They didn't seem to grasp that concept and didn't add pve content of significance until far later after launch. You simply cannot have great open world, sandbox pvp in a game lacking a developed world.
I will however be following Darkfall 2.0. It is a massive overlay upgrade which demands a whipe of the current game. To me that sounds promising. I've stated previously that one can simply not like Darkfall and choose not to play it but it is in the best interest of sandbox mmo's that this succeeds as some level. Aside from changes to the existing ruleset I hope that the pve world is enhanced greatly too.
Not saying it's a bad thing, just trying to explain why it is so common thesedays. In my experience of pretty much every mmo ever since UO the more VO and NPC interaction the less need for players to get involved with other players. Maybe you saw plenty of chat, on the server I was on you could have 20+ people in an area and no one talking, it's pretty common thesedays in most themepark mmos. I suppose my point is, apart from outside of the flashpoints and the heroic missions, there is no need to cooperate or talk to anyone. I suppose in that respect it is more like Skyrim and most single player games.
Btw i've pre-ordered SWotR and i'm looking forward to playing on the 15th.
you forgot about pvp ( both types), so with all three things: flashpoints, heroic missions and pvp i think that covers lots of reasons to communicate.
I will be roling on a rp server so that will add even more communication between players.
Wow, out of all the definitions for the word 'gimmick' you guys managed to avoid the one most relevant to the topic.
gimmick: to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc.
(can be a verb, adjective, or adverb)
Furthermore, by this definition, TOR's voice overs can be viewed as a gimmick. They do not affect the core game play, but instead distract from it. RIFT Souls do the exact opposite, in that they force players to concentrate on how they are playing the game, and use the mechanic to support their own playstyles. However, Rift's rift system could be viewed as a gimmick, because they just aren't all that central to the game. They are more of a side-event.
If it wasn't for the awesome raids that Rift has, I could see leaving the game. Trion is kind of in a tough situation here. You need people to Raid. The people whom Raid like the challenge. Those whom aren't in a guild that Raids or don't know enough people won't be able to do the content. The LFR tool wouldn't really work in Rift because of how complicated some of the boss fights are. I guess a LFR tool maybe could work for GP and DH, but that's about it - maybe part of GSB and RoS.
SWTOR has done an amazing job with their VO/Storylines and I am very impressed with them. I will continue to Raid in Rift and play SWTOR for the first month. I will be re-evaluating after that. If the Operations are as good as Rift's Raids or better, I could see myself leaving Rift. I love that game, but I'm not blind to better offerings.
Originally posted by aesperus Wow, out of all the definitions for the word 'gimmick' you guys managed to avoid the one most relevant to the topic. gimmick: to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc. (can be a verb, adjective, or adverb) Furthermore, by this definition, TOR's voice overs can be viewed as a gimmick. They do not affect the core game play, but instead distract from it. RIFT Souls do the exact opposite, in that they force players to concentrate on how they are playing the game, and use the mechanic to support their own playstyles. However, Rift's rift system could be viewed as a gimmick, because they just aren't all that central to the game. They are more of a side-event.
You probably should read the whole thing since you repeated what I already said. But I'll say it again for you both.
Of COURSE Voice acting is the gimmick. It's the 'hook' that people want who are playing it. How is that not clear?
I'm saying it's a necessary hook, not a cheap ploy as Bioware uses this all the time. Anyone who's ever played a Bioware game and then played TOR WITHOUT voice acting would be like "Okay, not bad but this would have been better with VO like in KOTOR. Why didn't they do that?"
Instead, you read people saying "I love how it has that KOTOR feel because of the VO".
Now those who like Rift may not like it because Rift has some pretty poor VO so they probably think TOR will be that way as well. The VO in Rift isn't really the important part of the story and having some guys from the stock room instead of pros do it doesn't help.
All games have a gimmick. Some use them cheaply (souls when extra souls are not necessary due to 51 point builds perfectly fine) and some use them as one of the most important parts of the game; to set atmosphere/immersion/lore.
Comments
High Fantasy is not going anywhere and neither should it. I would almost classify Star Wars as futuristic high fantasy.
I agree, people are just too lazy anymore. I noticed exactly the same thing with movies as well. Silent movies where not only fine but better in a lot of ways. They would put the dialog right up there on the cuts and for people who actually have an imagination and are proficient readers it was great. So much more artistic flexibility. I don't see any reason why these talkies are so popular now.
And don't even get me started on color!
All die, so die well.
So a high fantasy single player came out and "took the world by storm"? No. Everyone who games already knows what Elder Scrolls are. Besides, if that's your criteria then that means the MMO industry will see a ton of Battlefield 3/ MW3 mmos coming out because collectively more people bought them than Skyrim.
High fantasy has it's fans. I like it as well. But the populations as a whole want to see other types of games. Dwarves are not "cool" anymore. Elves.. people want to kill them.
The mmo industry is moving away from that area overall and bringing more types of games into it and that's a good thing.
High Fantasy is not going anywhere and neither should it. I would almost classify Star Wars as futuristic high fantasy.
Misread. I never claimed it was "going someplace".
I'm saying companies aren't making these kinds of mmos anymore for the most part because we've been saturated over the last decade with them. People are tired of looking at pointy ears and beer mugs and would like something different.
Imo, it's part and parcel of why the clones never lasted. The games weren't as good as the original (EQ) and didn't have a good story so they got old fast. Now it's just rehash of the same story like Rift did:
Two factions. We hate each other. There is a 'bigger' threat. And some dragons.
/snoring now
"TO MICHAEL!"
Anyone want to translate this?
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
EQ1.
EQ2.
LOTRO.
WOW.
Runes of Magic.
FFXI.
FFXIV.
Rift.
I'm sorry, you said you're still waiting?
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm still waiting for the next Shadowbane as well. I just couldn't get into Darkfall at all.
Yeah, felt something similar when playing my first user made NWN module, right after finishing the game, but it passes, especially if a story is good. I like VO, but a good story will still give a good experience, and a voice over will not make a poor story good.
I don't quite get the hype, every decent single player RPG uses VO, I consider it a feature that has been lacking from MMO's fro too long, rather then something new and (the i-word goes here)
and i subscr wow last night )
rifts soul system and its rifts/invasions is no more of a "gimmick" than TOR's voice overs. IMO it's not a gimmick in either game its a core part of the game itself. But if you are going to label it a gimmick you would have to label TOR's voice overs the same since essentially it doesn't add to the core gameplay mechanics of the game if that's how you view rifts soul system.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
a : an important feature that is not immediately apparent : catch
b : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle
c : a trick or device used to attract business or attention <a marketing gimmick>
They both are. The problem is, "shifting on the fly" isn't important as it's just more convenient. Any dungeon in Rift can be done without anyone NEEDING to switch souls so it's not really that important. You could complete any dungeon or raid in Rift with base classes and nothing fancy; the only thing is you can switch another soul and it's slightly easier, that's all. But 51 point classes can do it all, so just put those on and go do the dungeon.
But story is the important gimmick in TOR. No story, no game. Or just like every other game out there.. average gameplay with poor story which surpisingly is Rift.
The story is the gimmick that keeps adventurers playing. They don't play because they can swap souls in games or else everyone would be flocking to Rift instead of ToR right now.
"TO MICHAEL!"
If they bought it because they could "shift on the fly", why did they leave if they can still "shift on the fly", lol? That part of the game hasn't changed since beta.
But rifts have. They became less and less important and that's why people left. You seem to think people play games for some character gimmick or mechanic when I think people play games for fun.
rifts soul system and its rifts/invasions is no more of a "gimmick" than TOR's voice overs. IMO it's not a gimmick in either game its a core part of the game itself. But if you are going to label it a gimmick you would have to label TOR's voice overs the same since essentially it doesn't add to the core gameplay mechanics of the game if that's how you view rifts soul system.
a : an important feature that is not immediately apparent : catch
b : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle
c : a trick or device used to attract business or attention
They both are.
according to that everything new in TOR would be considered a gimmick thenhttp://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Couldn't get into Darkfall either as they emphasized pvp far too much over pve. I warned them on their boards over and over again (back during the pre-release Forumfall days ... nastiest forums of ALL TIME) that great sandbox pvp is CREATED from having a fully fleshed out pve world. They didn't seem to grasp that concept and didn't add pve content of significance until far later after launch. You simply cannot have great open world, sandbox pvp in a game lacking a developed world.
I will however be following Darkfall 2.0. It is a massive overlay upgrade which demands a whipe of the current game. To me that sounds promising. I've stated previously that one can simply not like Darkfall and choose not to play it but it is in the best interest of sandbox mmo's that this succeeds as some level. Aside from changes to the existing ruleset I hope that the pve world is enhanced greatly too.
You stay sassy!
you forgot about pvp ( both types), so with all three things: flashpoints, heroic missions and pvp i think that covers lots of reasons to communicate.
I will be roling on a rp server so that will add even more communication between players.
Wow, out of all the definitions for the word 'gimmick' you guys managed to avoid the one most relevant to the topic.
gimmick: to equip or embellish with unnecessary features, especially in order to increase salability, acceptance, etc.
(can be a verb, adjective, or adverb)
Furthermore, by this definition, TOR's voice overs can be viewed as a gimmick. They do not affect the core game play, but instead distract from it. RIFT Souls do the exact opposite, in that they force players to concentrate on how they are playing the game, and use the mechanic to support their own playstyles. However, Rift's rift system could be viewed as a gimmick, because they just aren't all that central to the game. They are more of a side-event.
If it wasn't for the awesome raids that Rift has, I could see leaving the game. Trion is kind of in a tough situation here. You need people to Raid. The people whom Raid like the challenge. Those whom aren't in a guild that Raids or don't know enough people won't be able to do the content. The LFR tool wouldn't really work in Rift because of how complicated some of the boss fights are. I guess a LFR tool maybe could work for GP and DH, but that's about it - maybe part of GSB and RoS.
SWTOR has done an amazing job with their VO/Storylines and I am very impressed with them. I will continue to Raid in Rift and play SWTOR for the first month. I will be re-evaluating after that. If the Operations are as good as Rift's Raids or better, I could see myself leaving Rift. I love that game, but I'm not blind to better offerings.
Of COURSE Voice acting is the gimmick. It's the 'hook' that people want who are playing it. How is that not clear?
I'm saying it's a necessary hook, not a cheap ploy as Bioware uses this all the time. Anyone who's ever played a Bioware game and then played TOR WITHOUT voice acting would be like "Okay, not bad but this would have been better with VO like in KOTOR. Why didn't they do that?"
Instead, you read people saying "I love how it has that KOTOR feel because of the VO".
Now those who like Rift may not like it because Rift has some pretty poor VO so they probably think TOR will be that way as well. The VO in Rift isn't really the important part of the story and having some guys from the stock room instead of pros do it doesn't help.
All games have a gimmick. Some use them cheaply (souls when extra souls are not necessary due to 51 point builds perfectly fine) and some use them as one of the most important parts of the game; to set atmosphere/immersion/lore.
"TO MICHAEL!"