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TOR Replayability: New Interview Speaks to That
Keogh
Member Posts: 1,099
This was just posted on this site: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/read/22848/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-PreLaunch-Interview-with-Dallas-Dickinson.html
Basically says that they have developed tools to help the creative team continue to produce high quality story driven VO content on a regular basis and that they already have people working on End-Game content for their first content update, due in the not too distant future.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
Comments
I think the timeless problem with MMO's that are made through this theme park type formula is that developers will never be able to create and launch content at a speed faster than players can consume it. It's not a knock at this game specifically, it's just the reality. If subscribers get through the content and constantly find themselves waiting for the next content to come out, there is a high likelyhood people will get bored and lose interest. I'm not sure I believe that somehow "this game will be different" in this regard because it has never been the case with any game to date using this formula.
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True, but then again, everything gets stale after a while... No game will be able to hold someone indefinitely, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. People will likely come back for more story content, or more repeatable content, or a completely new storyline with a brand new race, etc. It won't hold people forever, but then again, what game system do you know of that will?
Bingo!!
And still i played EQ2 for 6 years from first day of launch and there are those who have been playing WOW for 7 years now.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
That's because SW:TOR is pure combat / story focused.
Next to some crappy PVP and lazy crafting, there is nothing else to do in SW:TOR!
So when people consumed the storydriven PVE content, the only thing left will be the same ol' same ol' gear/Raiding threadmill.
SWG (pre-NGE) was great and loved by many, because of all the non-combat / social elements it had!
Player cities, deep crafting, housing, collecting. It's what created those greatly missed server communities /sigh
And that is what I am afraid off with SW:TOR. All they probably will do (and this interview basically comfirms that fear) is just pushing more of the same PVE story stuff again and again (and knowing EA, it will probably be paid DLC as well).
Pay for it. You go through it, finish it... wait for the next... Pay for it. You go through it, finish it... rince and repeat.
MMO longetivity isn't created by keep pushing out the same ol' same ol' PVE content. As people will just consume it faster than they can make it.
The game needs a ton of Non-combat trivial stuff to entice people to socialize together, keep them busy with all kinds of other things, like housing, collecting, achievements, better customization, mini games, etc.
That's what will keep people hooked onto your game for a long long time. And not just pushing out same ol' same ol' recycled PVE stuff! As that is just going to bore people to tears sooner than later and will make them jump ship to the next big thing that comes along (TSW, GW2, ArchAge, etc)
Too much generalization. My topic was posted to address those that said there would be nothing do do in this game post launch.
You will always have people that will play an MMO like a single player game that needs to be "beat" in record time. You can't focus on that type because nothing will make them happy.
Also keep in mind, gamers will age and their priorities and tastes will change too. Not everyone has the time or desire to camp in front of a computer for endless hours to beat a game in record time.
Bottem-line: The TOR creative team is actively working on more content as we type.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
And yet in the end those things didn't help keep SWG from bleeding subs. As a matter of fact EQ2 and LoTRO were able to maintain more subs than SWG. Both which so happen to be the kinds of games you described won't keep people.
This is a casual game, targeted at casual gamers. Bioware shouldn't be concerned about power gamers who chew through content, no matter how much content that game has. Companies always run into trouble when they try to set a game's pace to match that of the power gamer's. So far, Bioware strikes me as a company that not only KNOWS it's target audience, but isn't going to be swayed by the ever whining power gamers who cry about lack of leveling and end game content two weeks after release.
As cool as the VO content seems today, I'm very curious to see how that holds up. After leveing a couple toons during beta, I found that on the second beta weekend I was already starting to grow tired of the VO side quests.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
TOR is NOT SWG2. No matter how much you want it to be, it isn't. I can't believe this still needs to be repeated.
I agree. No one will ever keep up with the power gamer. You come out with content quicker and they think its a challenge to see how quick they can beat it all and they will always win.
I consider myself a hardcore player not bc I spend all day at the game, but bc I pride myself on learning the ins and outs and playing whatever character I am playing to the best of my ability. I used to sit for 10+ hrs a day playing SWG/WOW. Never again. I will play this game some days longer then others but I will enjoy it and not try to "beat" the game. I am not gonna win some prize bc I was first to 50 or first to down a operation boss.
The more people learn to just try and enjoy things in some type of moderation I think the more they will stick to games and have more fun and not worry about oh there is nothing to do I beat it all. Then complain bc there is nothing to do. That goes for any game not just SW:TOR.
That's what most of us that already played the game more than a weekend at a time have been trying to say....but we get shouted down all the time by the loud mouthed minority that won't tolerate any criticism off the game.
I look forward to seeing their posts this time next year when the game is all but forgotten, dead and buried while everyone raves about the next big game,,,,,,
SWG suffered from different issues that were unrelated to content.
SWG was bleeding subs because there were too many bugs and balance issues lingering in the game for far too long. Combat classes were woefully unbalanced, which started to drive off the PvP crowd. Crafted items scaled far too well as resource types shifted, which made it near impossible for new crafters to get into the market, and further unbalance PvP and made PvE unchallenging -- 80+% (I've even seen a couple 90+% armor set) resistences along with doctor buffs that more than tripled the max health/stam pools and regen rates. Not to mention the countless credit and item duping issues that kept popping up that really screwed up the game's economy. And lastly, the way jedi were handled in the game as an alpha class, really sucked the soul out of the game for a lot of players, either by getting mowed down by them in PvP, or by spending nearly all of their time in game trying to holo-grind to unlock Jedi themselves.
Content wise however, there was plenty to do in the game. It was all of the bugs, exploits, and imbalances in the game that really wore on the game's population...
Of course, then NGE exploded onto the scene and drove away the majority of the people that had otherwise stuck around up until then.
Trying to say what exactly? there is repetition in a quest based themepark MMO? V.O or no V.O. Even if you just had to read text what difference would it make? how different is scrolling through text from pressing spacebar?
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Lol, these are the answers that crack me up the most! The fact that he thinks that the people that like the game are the "minority" hahahaha! While I won't argue about some people getting tired of it, the fact that you think more people will get tired of VO, over the people that won't is baseless.
He is not saying it is but rather that SWG was better than SW:TOR will be. I agree.
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For some, it was. For a whole lot of others, it isn't.
While I agree with you that it was the bugs, imbalances, unfinished/rushed/broken features and exploits that prevented SWG from truly shining, it wasn't just that alone or the NGE that caused a significant drop.
Just like with EQ, with SWG as well it showed that considerable groups of players left those MMO's around the time when EQ2 and WoW came out.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This. I can only play about 10 hours a week. It's going to take a couple months just to get through my first class story line. Not to mention the rest of the classes I plan on playing. If BW pushes out new stuff every 4-6 months I think the pacing will be perfect for most gamers.Better means squat if MMO doesn't do well. Out of this website and when it comes to investment and return, 'SWG was better than SWTOR' has a zero meaning.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
So a broken, unbalanced, and bug ridden game that when thru a couple of combat changes, that drove off the majority of the population is better than a fully functioning game that is completely polished and lacking bugs. Dude I want some of want you are smoking, than again maybe not. Anyone that runs to each and every TOR thread just to bash it for no apparent reason needs some serious help. It's obvious you do not like the game, so why not just follow something you like. Or is that to hard of a concept for you
I think it is telling that BW introduced the 'Skip Space Bar' option so early into the development of the game.
Basically, it appears that BW recognised what you both describe here, and put in the skip option -- rather than pretend that their story is so amazing that no one in their proper mind would ever wish to skip it.
The question I have is then, where is the content they are considering will be the 'hook' if it is not Story. Basically looking for more details about end game, world PvP and what not, and how it will be successful versions, rather than those failed versions of other mmos.
Why you always look on the negative side for the answers to your questions? how about ask those who enjoy story and didn't skip or press space bars. When you are looking for only negative response that is what you will get most of the times. Your last statement will differ from person to person though and it is hard to give a definite answer because it is a given that not everyone is going to love the story and neither did Bioware ever made a claim that they will please everyone.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I remember one of the Bioware people (was it Gordon Walton?) saying that it's OK to let your players take a break from your game.
I don't know if Bioware still feel the same way, but what he was saying basically was, if you start doing stuff just to keep the players hooked, like exploiting the players' past investment into the game,just try and keep them on the grind, most will still quit but end up resenting the game... He was saying players can take a break for a few months and happily come back to experience the new content.
That'd probably be a natural path for Bioware to take. You hop on at launch, play a couple of classes, take a few months break, return later to play some new content. Personally this is what I do in any MMO, anyway; and I probably won't stay for a full year or anything like that even if they pushed out twice the content I can consume... I just need a break and a change of scenery.
Exactly, I tried SWG and didnt like it much at all. I tried it pre-nge and briefly after. However, after trying TOR I cant wait to get to play it.
Just like sandbox games in general, not everyone thinks it's better than themepark. Perhaps that's one reason why there's less sandbox games and why most of them have only a handful of players in them, even the people who rage how they want a sandbox game does not seem to play one.
I think TOR has bigger potential also to lure old customers back when there's some really cool new big storyline(s) added or inc, opposed to some other games where there are nothing else but new-old dungeons and a handful of wall o' texts.
Face, meet palm.
When people say SWG was better, they mean that the concept is better with regards to replayability and longevity of enjoyment. If the concept of SWG were properly executed, meaning without the bugs and balance issues, it would make for a far superior game than SWTOR with regards to replayability.
When you look beyond the issues SWG suffered from, it was a very innovative and enjoyable game for many people. But these issues lingered around so long that the problems eventually weighed down the enjoyment of the game for many players. Again, that's the fault of the inaction of SOE to fix issues in the game that were fixable, not the fault of the core design of the game.
Just because a single attempt at something turns out poorly due to mismanagement, it doesn't mean that the concept is fundamentally flawed. It's this kind of terribly thought out associative logic that has resulted in our industry churning out clone after endless WoW clone, just because one themepark MMO was abnormally successful...
You really don't seem to know what you're talking about - were you even playing MMOs when SWG was released? Over a year before WoW? The market was different then, much smaller, before Blizzard came along to crack it wide open. SWG was actually successful by pre-WoW standards. I'd bet in the current market, a modern version of it would do just as well as TOR, if not better. It had more to offer different types of players, whereas TOR is a lot more singular in focus.
I know TOR was never going to be SWG2, but I don't know why people have to keep knocking SWG, when they really know next to nothing about it. Not even whether it had been a success or not, before the NGE came along and made it a completely different game.
It had issues, but they really weren't as gamebreaking as people make them out to be. At least not until SOE completely failed to address them, ever, and eventually killed the game. It sounds crazy, and nothing else like it has happened to any other MMO, but that's why people are still bitter about it years later.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.