I wasn't talking about you, you never lied, sorry if it wasn't clear :P
But the problem is not only in starting areas... the fact that you have to do 90% of the same quests for every character of the same faction is a flaw... there is no other way to look at it.
So the class quests are only 10% of the quest content, with the other 90% generally shared with the paired class?
How much is shared between the classes of the same faction, that have different starting worlds? And is there a point where they basically 'merge' onto the same paths (outside class quests)?
This is a casual game, targeted at casual gamers. Bioware shouldn't be concerned about power gamers who chew through content, no matter how much content that game has. Companies always run into trouble when they try to set a game's pace to match that of the power gamer's. So far, Bioware strikes me as a company that not only KNOWS it's target audience, but isn't going to be swayed by the ever whining power gamers who cry about lack of leveling and end game content two weeks after release.
Two weeks after release? I expect to hear the lament of power gamers a few days after launch. In fact, before launch since they probably have early start.
power gamers do that in every game. we end up out levleing everyone and sitting at the top waiting for people to play with, you cant raid for weeks afte the first few people hit cap and barley be able to work group content. pvp is empty untill everyone catches up. doesnt matter what game it is.
I wasn't talking about you, you never lied, sorry if it wasn't clear :P
But the problem is not only in starting areas... the fact that you have to do 90% of the same quests for every character of the same faction is a flaw... there is no other way to look at it.
So the class quests are only 10% of the quest content, with the other 90% generally shared with the paired class?
Pretty much, but quests are shared for every class of the same faction, not just for paired classes.
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
I had to the ability to level 6 toons to 15-25 in the few betas i had and i did get completley different feel each time. once i skipped all the bonus and leveled just fine, and others i chose different answers which changes taskes and direction of some quests. most of the quests stayed the same regardless of my answers but there where many that sent me to do diferent things.
Well this is good to hear. I had heard that dialogue decisions and light/dark decisions really did not change the overall path --- ie killing the captain or sparing the captain generally just played a different cinematic, and then dumped you at the same point.
What I had hoped to see was something closer to WoW's freedom (in the sense of being able to break off the Blizz path), and to see some branching into different storylines -- for example light sided Troopers go to Planet X, while Dark sided troopers went to Planet Y. Even if it eventually ends like Mass Effect, the 'high road/low road' approach would have been welcomed, over the 'this is really the only road but you can choose the right or left lane to travel along).
I am hoping to hear that there is much more variety than what has been reported. I do agree with the comments about fan review and credibility, so I am hoping to see more post release reports from gamers in general, to help clear up the credibility issues.
I wasn't talking about you, you never lied, sorry if it wasn't clear :P
But the problem is not only in starting areas... the fact that you have to do 90% of the same quests for every character of the same faction is a flaw... there is no other way to look at it.
So the class quests are only 10% of the quest content, with the other 90% generally shared with the paired class?
Pretty much, but quests are shared for every class of the same faction, not just for paired classes.
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
or make a little effort and form groups to do open heroic zones, or go to illum or go to FFA PVP zone ..
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I wasn't talking about you, you never lied, sorry if it wasn't clear :P
But the problem is not only in starting areas... the fact that you have to do 90% of the same quests for every character of the same faction is a flaw... there is no other way to look at it.
So the class quests are only 10% of the quest content, with the other 90% generally shared with the paired class?
Pretty much, but quests are shared for every class of the same faction, not just for paired classes.
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
or make a little effort and form groups to do open heroic zones, or go to illum or go to FFA PVP zone ..
Open heroic zones?
What is that? are you talking about heroic +2 quests?, those that you can do with your companions? or is it something i never heard of?
And Ilium is for endgame pvp, not for leveling up.
Dunno about the FFA PVP zones, but from what i heard, it's also for endgame pvp (unless you enjoy geting killed by lvl 50 of your own faction)
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
Like people did in other themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO, that MMO gamers played for years and had fun in
Originally posted by Loekii
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
IIRC there were some people who decided to ignore the class stories and do group content together. They ended up leveling as fast or faster than those who followed the regular path of class stories, plus they got a couple of very good blue items. It was in several of the reports after the special weekends, I think it was reported here on mmorpg.com by Mike Bitton as well as some other reported that did that alternate route.
Originally posted by Loekii
Originally posted by onthestick
or make a little effort and form groups to do open heroic zones, or go to illum or go to FFA PVP zone ..
The thing is, we have seen that simply having 'options' is not enough. Such options have to be strong and enjoyable, or people just cancel.
I agree, but this applies to every MMORPG, whether that's a sandbox or themepark MMO.
We'll see how this'll hold up for MMO gamers in SWTOR - talking about the majority of MMO gamers, not the vocal minority of sandbox fans or themepark haters or sites like this one, but the majority of MMO gamers that have actually been playing themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO and Aion for years and enjoyed it
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
or make a little effort and form groups to do open heroic zones, or go to illum or go to FFA PVP zone ..
The thing is, we have seen that simply having 'options' is not enough. Such options have to be strong and enjoyable, or people just cancel.
Welcome to online gaming where no company can guarantee you fun.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
Like people did in other themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO, that MMO gamers played for years and had fun in
Originally posted by Loekii
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
IIRC there were some people who decided to ignore the class stories and do group content together. They ended up leveling as fast or faster than those who followed the regular path of class stories, plus they got a couple of very good blue items. It was in several of the reports after the special weekends, I think it was reported here on mmorpg.com by Mike Bitton as well as some other reported that did that alternate route.
Indeed, but WOW also had multiple leveling paths.
You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again .
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
What is that? are you talking about heroic +2 quests?, those that you can do with your companions? or is it something i never heard of?
And Ilium is for endgame pvp, not for leveling up.
Dunno about the FFA PVP zones, but from what i heard, it's also for endgame pvp (unless you enjoy geting killed by lvl 50 of your own faction)
No i am not talking about heroic quests i am talking about open heroic areas and there are one to two on every planet. How can you even miss that? you get a warning the moment you enter it and they always contain rare materials, datacrons and good mod drops from mobs and some nasty champion bosses.
I am not just talking about leveling but content in general avilable at all levels from lvl 1 to 50. So yeah illum and FFA pvp zone also counts.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
Like people did in other themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO, that MMO gamers played for years and had fun in
Originally posted by Loekii
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
IIRC there were some people who decided to ignore the class stories and do group content together. They ended up leveling as fast or faster than those who followed the regular path of class stories, plus they got a couple of very good blue items. It was in several of the reports after the special weekends, I think it was reported here on mmorpg.com by Mike Bitton as well as some other reported that did that alternate route.
Indeed, but WOW also had multiple leveling paths.
You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again .
lol, really? we leave a game becouse we want something new and then complain that its not more like the old busted game.
The question I have about the edit is the quality you get from playing those alternative forms of advancement.
Looking at a number of reviews about TOR, I have not seen a lot of positive praise about all those alternative forms of advancements (for example grinding mobs, or playing the Space game). In fact, I have seen some pretty credible criticisms about them, with out much rebuttle other than fan opinion.
I have also seen criticisms that the game is far too linerar if you wanted to try to play the story PvE aspects of the game (ie you basically have to follow the Class Story direction and the single path it tends to lay out for you). This is what I mean by WoW seems to be less linear than TOR, and similarly to how DAO was less linear than DA2.
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
Well I prefer to fight things above my level range, so it was fun to be able to do that. Anyway Space combat is dull, mob grinding was fun every once and a while for me (at least on BH and smuggler). Had fun Pvping.
Now on the starter planets 60% or so of the content is class based. WIthin those worlds you are pretty confined to those for your main XP, I honestly had no problem with that as they are what I like most about TOR. The side quests were hit or miss, which is why I skipped so many of them, and opted to gain XP through alternate means such as bonus xp quests (which were easy) or Warzones once they were open to me.
As for being a fan of Bioware, not so much, I've liked some of their games KOTOR, ME 1 and 2, and Jade Empire was so so IMO. I wouldn't call myself a huge fan, nor of themepark design, I stomached AOC a bit, never hit 80, I'm a bethsoft and SWG (Pre-cu) fanboi if anything.
Your criteria though (trooper playing elsewhere) really has nothing to do with what I said. However, while that may be the case, each set of classes has a different starting zone, much like WOW. No you can't take your smuggler to the jedi starting world, nor your Jedi to the smugglers. At least before you get your ship. WHich you have no real reason to do, as you'd have out leveled most content.
What I am making a case about though is that there is plenty of content to leave behind for other play-throughs, which is a major plus in my book.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again .
? SWTOR has multiple leveling paths as well, so I don't see the problem. If people were able to have fun for a long time in LotrO where you had even more limitations in your leveling, then I don't see why SWTOR would be less fun where you have more options for leveling than a LotrO. Each MMO has its own strengths and weaknesses in leveling, compared with other themepark MMO's SWTOR isn't doing bad at all, it comes out pretty strongly.
I guess we'll see how things will be judged by the majority of MMO gamers in the months after its launch, if the complaints raised here will turn out to be game breakers or trivial in the end.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by spaceport Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by spaceport
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP. Or grind flashpoints.
Like people did in other themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO, that MMO gamers played for years and had fun in
Originally posted by Loekii
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
IIRC there were some people who decided to ignore the class stories and do group content together. They ended up leveling as fast or faster than those who followed the regular path of class stories, plus they got a couple of very good blue items. It was in several of the reports after the special weekends, I think it was reported here on mmorpg.com by Mike Bitton as well as some other reported that did that alternate route. Indeed, but WOW also had multiple leveling paths. You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again . If you think WoW had multiple leveling paths, then you are very easy to please. TOR should be amazing for you. In WoW you could kill ten rats in the forest or kill ten boars in the desert, or maybe kill ten bunnies in the snow. You think that is variety? I hope not. In vanilla WoW there were maybe 5 quests that were unique to your class (those are gone now). In TOR there are hundreds.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again .
? SWTOR has multiple leveling paths as well
Well, that's not what i heard...
Aren't you forced to do the same open world quests for every character of the same faction?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Aren't you forced to do the same open world quests for every character of the same faction?
Look at the highlighted part. I mean, seriously?
Do you also still believe in the 300 million dollar budget because that's what you heard someone say as well?
Well, believe whatever you want to believe I guess. It's like the complaint I hear from some people how linear all themepark MMO's are and how there's nothing to explore. Well, duh, if you follow the breadcrumbs and do nothing by yourself outside of that, then sure, then all themepark MMO's are linear and there's nothing to explore. It's what you make of it yourself, I have had fun exploring quite a lot in all kinds of themepark MMO's and made use of the different leveling options that were available besides following the main path.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Now on the starter planets 60% or so of the content is class based. WIthin those worlds you are pretty confined to those for your main XP, I honestly had no problem with that as they are what I like most about TOR. The side quests were hit or miss, which is why I skipped so many of them, and opted to gain XP through alternate means such as bonus xp quests (which were easy) or Warzones once they were open to me.
This is sort of what I mean by BW fan -- not simply literally a BW fan (not really limiting to being a BW at all), but rather having the pre-req of sharing your opinion. What you list here is what you like, but that doesn't mean most people find that enjoyable. So it doesn't really say the game is very replayable to most gamers, but rather that it has replayability to gamers that share your opinion (which is fine and I am not slamming).
For someone that is PvE only, and hates the space mini game, there doesn't seem to be a lot of replay options. They cannot avoid repeating a large amount of the same content they did with their first toon, unless they basically jump to the other faction -- which them puts them back to the repeat issue on their 3rd play through.
With WoW, you could play the same class, in different areas, and avoid a good chunk of repeated quests and content. It doesn't appear that TOR offers that.
I think the timeless problem with MMO's that are made through this theme park type formula is that developers will never be able to create and launch content at a speed faster than players can consume it. It's not a knock at this game specifically, it's just the reality. If subscribers get through the content and constantly find themselves waiting for the next content to come out, there is a high likelyhood people will get bored and lose interest. I'm not sure I believe that somehow "this game will be different" in this regard because it has never been the case with any game to date using this formula.
Absolutely right. Which is why the fact of the matter is that most people do not have fun repeatedly doing similar content over and over and over again. Evident by ~60-80% of origonal box purchasers to past themepark mmorpgs not re-subbing 3-6months post launch.
Lets see if the content does transcend that of a single-player or redundantly played third-person shooter. Many are skeptical, but we'll see if this subscription-based cinematic story themepark online game "retains" more of their audience at the 3, 6, and 12-month mark.
So, yea, I hope massively-multiplayer content is pushed through regularly.
This is sort of what I mean by BW fan -- not simply literally a BW fan (not really limiting to being a BW at all), but rather having the pre-req of sharing your opinion. What you list here is what you like, but that doesn't mean most people find that enjoyable. So it doesn't really say the game is very replayable to most gamers, but rather that it has replayability to gamers that share your opinion (which is fine and I am not slamming).
Be fair. The same applies to your opinion, if you dislike something doesn't mean that most people find it unenjoyable as well.
Like said, I guess we'll find out how important or how trivial some complaints mentioned by some will turn out to be in the months after launch.
I could sum up the weaknesses in leveling in WoW and LotrO as well, yet the simple fact remains that despite those weaknesses MMO gamers still managed to have fun in them for years, apparently finding those weaknesses less crucial than they might have sounded beforehand.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think the timeless problem with MMO's that are made through this theme park type formula is that developers will never be able to create and launch content at a speed faster than players can consume it. It's not a knock at this game specifically, it's just the reality. If subscribers get through the content and constantly find themselves waiting for the next content to come out, there is a high likelyhood people will get bored and lose interest. I'm not sure I believe that somehow "this game will be different" in this regard because it has never been the case with any game to date using this formula.
Absolutely right. Which is why the fact of the matter is that most people do not have fun repeatedly doing similar content over and over and over again. Evident by ~60-80% of origonal box purchasers to past themepark mmorpgs not re-subbing 3-6months post launch.
Lets see if the content does transcend that of a single-player or redundantly played third-person shooter. Many are skeptical, but we'll see if this subscription-based cinematic story themepark online game "retains" more of their audience at the 3, 6, and 12-month mark.
So, yea, I hope massively-multiplayer content is pushed through regularly.
Having been a long time MMO player (and MUD before that), I agree.
For the most part, I am not seeing what is significantly different from other MMO's, and why people will not follow the simply path of the '~60-80%' of box purchasers. I am not seeing a lot of replayability with TOR especially, so I do not expect to see a high retention rate in the following months. I am really not sure why they went with the P2P, instead of going with a F2P model similar to what LoTRO shifted to.
This is sort of what I mean by BW fan -- not simply literally a BW fan (not really limiting to being a BW at all), but rather having the pre-req of sharing your opinion. What you list here is what you like, but that doesn't mean most people find that enjoyable. So it doesn't really say the game is very replayable to most gamers, but rather that it has replayability to gamers that share your opinion (which is fine and I am not slamming).
Be fair. The same applies to your opinion, if you dislike something doesn't mean that most people find it unenjoyable as well.
Like said, I guess we'll find out how important or how trivial some complaints mentioned by some will turn out to be in the months after launch.
I could sum up the weaknesses in leveling in WoW and LotrO as well, yet the simple fact remains that despite those weaknesses MMO gamers still managed to have fun in them for years, apparently finding those weaknesses less crucial than they might have sounded beforehand.
The thing is that WoW seems to be an anomoly, and iirc, LotR was not doing well at retaining subs during its P2P period.
What I have seen in most releases, are people claiming the game is great and will 'kill wow' or break the million resubs for a year barrier - during development and at release - but then see most people cancel with in the first 6 months of release.
I do not think that is a resounding example of support that people find such mechanics enjoyable - enjoyable to the point they continue to pay $15/mo.
People seem more willing to go with a F2P model, not because the game is 'more fun', but simply it costs less to enjoy -- thus it is easier to meet their expectations for 'bang for the buck' so to speak. Replayability in a F2P model, is valued differently than in a P2P, as it doesn't cost anything if they do not wish to spend more for it.
Absolutely right. Which is why the fact of the matter is that most people do not have fun repeatedly doing similar content over and over and over again. Evident by ~60-80% of origonal box purchasers to past themepark mmorpgs not re-subbing 3-6months post launch.
1. people mention all kinds of percentages all the time, do you have a source to them? Else they're just figures that a random internet person mentions, just like another random internet person might claim figures about the same stuff that could contradict it.
2. who says that only box purchasers of themepark MMORPG's don't re-sub 3-6 months with that kind of percentage, and not purchasers of sandbox MMO's as well? In fact, I find it far likelier that those percentages would have been pretty high with for example SWG as well, with people who had expected an entirely different game than they were confronted with when playing SWG.
3. the success of longer term retention of WoW and LotrO certainly in their first year but also afterwards kind of undermines the statement that people don't have fun repeatedly doing similar stuf over and over again.
4. looking at it completely objectively at activities in sandbox MMO's, and you'll see a hell of a lot of repeating patterns and doing the same content over and over again. Yet, people enjoy those repeated activities as well, so it's all in the mind.
Originally posted by Loekii
The thing is that WoW seems to be an anomoly, and iirc, LotR was not doing well at retaining subs during its P2P period.
What I have seen in most releases, are people claiming the game is great and will 'kill wow' or break the million resubs for a year barrier - during development and at release - but then see most people cancel with in the first 6 months of release.
That's just your theory, and regarding LotrO, it's player retention in its first year was actually very good.
As for the million resubs for a year barrier, I guess you're talking only western subs here, right? Since MMO's like Aion are worldwide still comfortably above the million subs and such.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Aren't you forced to do the same open world quests for every character of the same faction?
Look at the highlighted part. I mean, seriously?
Do you also still believe in the 300 million dollar budget because that's what you heard someone say as well?
Well, believe whatever you want to believe I guess. It's like the complaint I hear from some people how linear all themepark MMO's are and how there's nothing to explore. Well, duh, if you follow the breadcrumbs and do nothing by yourself outside of that, then sure, then all themepark MMO's are linear and there's nothing to explore. It's what you make of it yourself, I have had fun exploring quite a lot in all kinds of themepark MMO's and made use of the different leveling options that were available besides following the main path.
From beta testers in sites like betacake, i always research about games before buying them.
The 300 millions is a lie (you just have to look at the graphics to know it), 90% of shared content is not.
That's all im saying.
Where are those 1600 hours of unique story content btw?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
Comments
So the class quests are only 10% of the quest content, with the other 90% generally shared with the paired class?
How much is shared between the classes of the same faction, that have different starting worlds? And is there a point where they basically 'merge' onto the same paths (outside class quests)?
power gamers do that in every game. we end up out levleing everyone and sitting at the top waiting for people to play with, you cant raid for weeks afte the first few people hit cap and barley be able to work group content. pvp is empty untill everyone catches up. doesnt matter what game it is.
Pretty much, but quests are shared for every class of the same faction, not just for paired classes.
But you can always grind the same 3 bg's, or do some rail pew pew with the arcade shooter for XP.
Or grind flashpoints.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Well this is good to hear. I had heard that dialogue decisions and light/dark decisions really did not change the overall path --- ie killing the captain or sparing the captain generally just played a different cinematic, and then dumped you at the same point.
What I had hoped to see was something closer to WoW's freedom (in the sense of being able to break off the Blizz path), and to see some branching into different storylines -- for example light sided Troopers go to Planet X, while Dark sided troopers went to Planet Y. Even if it eventually ends like Mass Effect, the 'high road/low road' approach would have been welcomed, over the 'this is really the only road but you can choose the right or left lane to travel along).
I am hoping to hear that there is much more variety than what has been reported. I do agree with the comments about fan review and credibility, so I am hoping to see more post release reports from gamers in general, to help clear up the credibility issues.
or make a little effort and form groups to do open heroic zones, or go to illum or go to FFA PVP zone ..
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Open heroic zones?
What is that? are you talking about heroic +2 quests?, those that you can do with your companions? or is it something i never heard of?
And Ilium is for endgame pvp, not for leveling up.
Dunno about the FFA PVP zones, but from what i heard, it's also for endgame pvp (unless you enjoy geting killed by lvl 50 of your own faction)
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
The thing is, we have seen that simply having 'options' is not enough. Such options have to be strong and enjoyable, or people just cancel.
Like people did in other themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO, that MMO gamers played for years and had fun in
IIRC there were some people who decided to ignore the class stories and do group content together. They ended up leveling as fast or faster than those who followed the regular path of class stories, plus they got a couple of very good blue items. It was in several of the reports after the special weekends, I think it was reported here on mmorpg.com by Mike Bitton as well as some other reported that did that alternate route.
I agree, but this applies to every MMORPG, whether that's a sandbox or themepark MMO.
We'll see how this'll hold up for MMO gamers in SWTOR - talking about the majority of MMO gamers, not the vocal minority of sandbox fans or themepark haters or sites like this one, but the majority of MMO gamers that have actually been playing themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO and Aion for years and enjoyed it
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Welcome to online gaming where no company can guarantee you fun.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
End-game "content" is not replayability. End-game "content" is what games that have no replayability do to try to compensate for that shortcoming.
Indeed, but WOW also had multiple leveling paths.
You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again
.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
No i am not talking about heroic quests i am talking about open heroic areas and there are one to two on every planet. How can you even miss that? you get a warning the moment you enter it and they always contain rare materials, datacrons and good mod drops from mobs and some nasty champion bosses.
I am not just talking about leveling but content in general avilable at all levels from lvl 1 to 50. So yeah illum and FFA pvp zone also counts.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
lol, really? we leave a game becouse we want something new and then complain that its not more like the old busted game.
Well I prefer to fight things above my level range, so it was fun to be able to do that. Anyway Space combat is dull, mob grinding was fun every once and a while for me (at least on BH and smuggler). Had fun Pvping.
Now on the starter planets 60% or so of the content is class based. WIthin those worlds you are pretty confined to those for your main XP, I honestly had no problem with that as they are what I like most about TOR. The side quests were hit or miss, which is why I skipped so many of them, and opted to gain XP through alternate means such as bonus xp quests (which were easy) or Warzones once they were open to me.
As for being a fan of Bioware, not so much, I've liked some of their games KOTOR, ME 1 and 2, and Jade Empire was so so IMO. I wouldn't call myself a huge fan, nor of themepark design, I stomached AOC a bit, never hit 80, I'm a bethsoft and SWG (Pre-cu) fanboi if anything.
Your criteria though (trooper playing elsewhere) really has nothing to do with what I said. However, while that may be the case, each set of classes has a different starting zone, much like WOW. No you can't take your smuggler to the jedi starting world, nor your Jedi to the smugglers. At least before you get your ship. WHich you have no real reason to do, as you'd have out leveled most content.
What I am making a case about though is that there is plenty of content to leave behind for other play-throughs, which is a major plus in my book.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
? SWTOR has multiple leveling paths as well, so I don't see the problem. If people were able to have fun for a long time in LotrO where you had even more limitations in your leveling, then I don't see why SWTOR would be less fun where you have more options for leveling than a LotrO. Each MMO has its own strengths and weaknesses in leveling, compared with other themepark MMO's SWTOR isn't doing bad at all, it comes out pretty strongly.
I guess we'll see how things will be judged by the majority of MMO gamers in the months after its launch, if the complaints raised here will turn out to be game breakers or trivial in the end.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Indeed, but WOW also had multiple leveling paths.
You would think that in a game like SWTOR with "1600 hours of unique story content" you wouln't have to grind bgs in order to not repeat the same quests all over again
If you think WoW had multiple leveling paths, then you are very easy to please. TOR should be amazing for you. In WoW you could kill ten rats in the forest or kill ten boars in the desert, or maybe kill ten bunnies in the snow. You think that is variety? I hope not. In vanilla WoW there were maybe 5 quests that were unique to your class (those are gone now). In TOR there are hundreds.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Well, that's not what i heard...
Aren't you forced to do the same open world quests for every character of the same faction?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
Look at the highlighted part. I mean, seriously?
Do you also still believe in the 300 million dollar budget because that's what you heard someone say as well?
Well, believe whatever you want to believe I guess. It's like the complaint I hear from some people how linear all themepark MMO's are and how there's nothing to explore. Well, duh, if you follow the breadcrumbs and do nothing by yourself outside of that, then sure, then all themepark MMO's are linear and there's nothing to explore. It's what you make of it yourself, I have had fun exploring quite a lot in all kinds of themepark MMO's and made use of the different leveling options that were available besides following the main path.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This is sort of what I mean by BW fan -- not simply literally a BW fan (not really limiting to being a BW at all), but rather having the pre-req of sharing your opinion. What you list here is what you like, but that doesn't mean most people find that enjoyable. So it doesn't really say the game is very replayable to most gamers, but rather that it has replayability to gamers that share your opinion (which is fine and I am not slamming).
For someone that is PvE only, and hates the space mini game, there doesn't seem to be a lot of replay options. They cannot avoid repeating a large amount of the same content they did with their first toon, unless they basically jump to the other faction -- which them puts them back to the repeat issue on their 3rd play through.
With WoW, you could play the same class, in different areas, and avoid a good chunk of repeated quests and content. It doesn't appear that TOR offers that.
Absolutely right. Which is why the fact of the matter is that most people do not have fun repeatedly doing similar content over and over and over again. Evident by ~60-80% of origonal box purchasers to past themepark mmorpgs not re-subbing 3-6months post launch.
Lets see if the content does transcend that of a single-player or redundantly played third-person shooter. Many are skeptical, but we'll see if this subscription-based cinematic story themepark online game "retains" more of their audience at the 3, 6, and 12-month mark.
So, yea, I hope massively-multiplayer content is pushed through regularly.
Be fair. The same applies to your opinion, if you dislike something doesn't mean that most people find it unenjoyable as well.
Like said, I guess we'll find out how important or how trivial some complaints mentioned by some will turn out to be in the months after launch.
I could sum up the weaknesses in leveling in WoW and LotrO as well, yet the simple fact remains that despite those weaknesses MMO gamers still managed to have fun in them for years, apparently finding those weaknesses less crucial than they might have sounded beforehand.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Having been a long time MMO player (and MUD before that), I agree.
For the most part, I am not seeing what is significantly different from other MMO's, and why people will not follow the simply path of the '~60-80%' of box purchasers. I am not seeing a lot of replayability with TOR especially, so I do not expect to see a high retention rate in the following months. I am really not sure why they went with the P2P, instead of going with a F2P model similar to what LoTRO shifted to.
The thing is that WoW seems to be an anomoly, and iirc, LotR was not doing well at retaining subs during its P2P period.
What I have seen in most releases, are people claiming the game is great and will 'kill wow' or break the million resubs for a year barrier - during development and at release - but then see most people cancel with in the first 6 months of release.
I do not think that is a resounding example of support that people find such mechanics enjoyable - enjoyable to the point they continue to pay $15/mo.
People seem more willing to go with a F2P model, not because the game is 'more fun', but simply it costs less to enjoy -- thus it is easier to meet their expectations for 'bang for the buck' so to speak. Replayability in a F2P model, is valued differently than in a P2P, as it doesn't cost anything if they do not wish to spend more for it.
1. people mention all kinds of percentages all the time, do you have a source to them? Else they're just figures that a random internet person mentions, just like another random internet person might claim figures about the same stuff that could contradict it.
2. who says that only box purchasers of themepark MMORPG's don't re-sub 3-6 months with that kind of percentage, and not purchasers of sandbox MMO's as well? In fact, I find it far likelier that those percentages would have been pretty high with for example SWG as well, with people who had expected an entirely different game than they were confronted with when playing SWG.
3. the success of longer term retention of WoW and LotrO certainly in their first year but also afterwards kind of undermines the statement that people don't have fun repeatedly doing similar stuf over and over again.
4. looking at it completely objectively at activities in sandbox MMO's, and you'll see a hell of a lot of repeating patterns and doing the same content over and over again. Yet, people enjoy those repeated activities as well, so it's all in the mind.
That's just your theory, and regarding LotrO, it's player retention in its first year was actually very good.
As for the million resubs for a year barrier, I guess you're talking only western subs here, right? Since MMO's like Aion are worldwide still comfortably above the million subs and such.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
From beta testers in sites like betacake, i always research about games before buying them.
The 300 millions is a lie (you just have to look at the graphics to know it), 90% of shared content is not.
That's all im saying.
Where are those 1600 hours of unique story content btw?
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu