Originally posted by Loekii Originally posted by DannyGlover
Kind of a catch 22 there don't you think? You're basically asking for an opinion and then dismissing it because its opinionated. You ask what elements of TOR are superior and how? C'mon man, uncork a little. I am actually asking for a more neutral opinon.
Again, for example, Voice Overs are generally considered a better form of handing out quests as opposed to a wall of text. Yes that is an opinion, but it is one that most people generally agree with.
On the contrary, saying TOR's gameplay is fun, is a much more specific opinion, and not as general as the above opinion.
So what I was asking for, were are there any examples of where TOR excels in a more general sense (like it does with VOs), rather than the more specific opinions he presented. alright here goes.
Voice overs have been covered.
The crafting system is superior to most themepark crafting systems because you are adding a layer of business management to the equation. You play the roll of a small business owner tracking up to 5 employees simultaneously and queue up multiple actions per employee. Operation are based on your ship complete with crafting stations. Aside from crafting, gathering, and various missions, you will also be able to mod equipment up through level cap as well as reverse engineer previously made items for resources and a chance at an improved recipe.
I didnt get to pvp last couple weekends but the crafting system alone is good enough to be its own game for anyone who wants to do something else in TOR
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
You all took my post way out of context! /FACEPALM!
I am not looking for SWG2. I was merely mentioning it as example of elements that created longetivity and hook people to the game.
I fear for SW:TOR in it's current state that it just does not have much longetivity.
Over 85% of the content is overlapping across all classes. And besides combat and lazy crafting SW:TOR just doesn't offer anything.
So when people are done playing through one character and it's storyline, they are pretty much done.
Sure you can reroll another class, but besided it's unique story quest you are faced with doing tons of the same content all over again.
So you can bet a lot of people will already end up being bored running a second character, yet alone a third one.
For me, I am good side and always will be. I hate rolling dark side characters, as it's just not my taste. So I am stuck to the Republic side.
SW:TOR needs non-combat elements and quickly. Be it in form of mini games, housing, better more engaging crafting, more and better customization, achievements, collections, whatever.... it needs it badly!
Just running missions and flashing your light saber over and over again, day after day, with nothing else to do, will get tiresome eventually.
I hate to make the analogy, but World of Warcraft, undeniably the most popular MMO to date, has little else to it other than combat. The crafting system in WoW is as painstakingly shallow as TOR.
Pretty much all there is at the end of WoW is combat - PvP battlegrounds, arenas, dungeons and raids. And yet it was the most popular MMO to date? So I think you are overthinking what people actually want from an endgame. Most of those players are quite happy to keep making alts as well, so SWTOR will suit them well with the varied dialogue options.
Yes some people like niches like housing and social stuff, but most of those players already have happy established homes in LOTRO, EQ2 and Vanguard... and they make up quite a small population of the overall market. TOR can add social fluff in later if theres a market for it, but its the end game combat that will make or break this game so they should focus on fleshing that out first.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
SW:TOR is completely missing that very important aspect and takes Themepark to a whole new level, putting people on a full "On Rails" experience with very little exploration.
Not to mention that the game worlds itself are pretty lifeless with pretty much all NPC's and mobs being static stationary spawns, compared to World of Warcraft, EverQuest, LOTRO, Fallen Earth, etc.
That's what actually shocked me the most. As even an indy company like Icarus managed to create a more active/lively gameworld than a Multi million dollar funded project like SW:TOR.
EverQuest 2 (and another great example: Fallen Earth) actually rewards you for going out and explore the gameworld. Something vital I completely miss in SW:TOR.
I wish he said, 'We plan on adding numerous games systems akin to a sandbox that will enhance the game for all players and add depth to the world as well as end game.'
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
SW:TOR is completely missing that very important aspect and takes Themepark to a whole new level, putting people on a full "On Rails" experience with very little exploration.
Not to mention that the game worlds itself are pretty lifeless with pretty much all NPC's and mobs being static stationary spawns, compared to World of Warcraft, EverQuest, LOTRO, Fallen Earth, etc.
That's what actually shocked me the most. As even an indy company like Icarus managed to create a more active/lively gameworld than a Multi million dollar funded project like SW:TOR.
EverQuest 2 (and another great example: Fallen Earth) actually rewards you for going out and explore the gameworld. Something vital I completely miss in SW:TOR.
Its one of the major reasons I was disappointed in Dragon Age II, but I thought they did it that way because they had too much tied up in making TOR.. turns out its more like Bioware's new way of doing map design, I guess. Previous Bioware games were linear of course, but somewhat more open, and still left more room for exploring than DA2 and TOR.
Like a lot of what they've done, I have to admit, it does seem 100% intentional. I just can't imagine why they think it's a good idea.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I think the timeless problem with MMO's that are made through this theme park type formula is that developers will never be able to create and launch content at a speed faster than players can consume it. It's not a knock at this game specifically, it's just the reality. If subscribers get through the content and constantly find themselves waiting for the next content to come out, there is a high likelyhood people will get bored and lose interest. I'm not sure I believe that somehow "this game will be different" in this regard because it has never been the case with any game to date using this formula.
That's because SW:TOR is pure combat / story focused.
Next to some crappy PVP and lazy crafting, there is nothing else to do in SW:TOR!
So when people consumed the storydriven PVE content, the only thing left will be the same ol' same ol' gear/Raiding threadmill.
SWG (pre-NGE) was great and loved by many, because of all the non-combat / social elements it had!
Player cities, deep crafting, housing, collecting. It's what created those greatly missed server communities /sigh
TOR is NOT SWG2. No matter how much you want it to be, it isn't. I can't believe this still needs to be repeated.
He is not saying it is but rather that SWG was better than SW:TOR will be. I agree.
Better means squat if MMO doesn't do well. Out of this website and when it comes to investment and return, 'SWG was better than SWTOR' has a zero meaning.
If you are an investor in the game then yes. But I am a customer and I dont care jack shit if a game makes a ton of cash or not, as long as it makes enough to keep going. What I care about if I enjoy the game or not. If I dont enjoy the game and it makes a ton of money for its investors, why would that matter to me?
You seem way hung up about the dollar value of something. I am more interested in the value it brings to my spare time.
And just for the record, SWG was making money, it had a solid subscriber base and showed higher numbers on XFire than EQ 2, CoX, Champions Online (before it went F2P), DAoC and lots of other known MMORPGs. It was killed, most likely, because Lucasarts wanted to make more money on SW:TOR so they probably requested SOE to discontinue the game. You think it is a coincidence that it was killed just when SW:TOR was being hyped up for release?
If you are an investor in the game then yes. But I am a customer and I dont care jack shit if a game makes a ton of cash or not, as long as it makes enough to keep going. What I care about if I enjoy the game or not. If I dont enjoy the game and it makes a ton of money for its investors, why would that matter to me?
You seem way hung up about the dollar value of something. I am more interested in the value it brings to my spare time.
And just for the record, SWG was making money, it had a solid subscriber base and showed higher numbers on XFire than EQ 2, CoX, Champions Online (before it went F2P), DAoC and lots of other known MMORPGs. It was killed, most likely, because Lucasarts wanted to make more money on SW:TOR so they probably requested SOE to discontinue the game. You think it is a coincidence that it was killed just when SW:TOR was being hyped up for release?
So atleast you understand it is about the value it brings to players. I wonder where all this enlightment goes when you try to incite those who enjoy SWTOR day after day by making un necessary comparisons with SWG.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I think the timeless problem with MMO's that are made through this theme park type formula is that developers will never be able to create and launch content at a speed faster than players can consume it. It's not a knock at this game specifically, it's just the reality. If subscribers get through the content and constantly find themselves waiting for the next content to come out, there is a high likelyhood people will get bored and lose interest. I'm not sure I believe that somehow "this game will be different" in this regard because it has never been the case with any game to date using this formula.
That's because SW:TOR is pure combat / story focused.
Next to some crappy PVP and lazy crafting, there is nothing else to do in SW:TOR!
So when people consumed the storydriven PVE content, the only thing left will be the same ol' same ol' gear/Raiding threadmill.
SWG (pre-NGE) was great and loved by many, because of all the non-combat / social elements it had!
Player cities, deep crafting, housing, collecting. It's what created those greatly missed server communities /sigh
TOR is NOT SWG2. No matter how much you want it to be, it isn't. I can't believe this still needs to be repeated.
He is not saying it is but rather that SWG was better than SW:TOR will be. I agree.
Better means squat if MMO doesn't do well. Out of this website and when it comes to investment and return, 'SWG was better than SWTOR' has a zero meaning.
If you are an investor in the game then yes. But I am a customer and I dont care jack shit if a game makes a ton of cash or not, as long as it makes enough to keep going. What I care about if I enjoy the game or not. If I dont enjoy the game and it makes a ton of money for its investors, why would that matter to me?
You seem way hung up about the dollar value of something. I am more interested in the value it brings to my spare time.
And just for the record, SWG was making money, it had a solid subscriber base and showed higher numbers on XFire than EQ 2, CoX, Champions Online (before it went F2P), DAoC and lots of other known MMORPGs. It was killed, most likely, because Lucasarts wanted to make more money on SW:TOR so they probably requested SOE to discontinue the game. You think it is a coincidence that it was killed just when SW:TOR was being hyped up for release?
We all know Xfire is the most reliable way to track games, so you may have a point. But it doesn't matter if you don't like a game or, even if you do... what matters to everyone else is whether THEY like the game. SWG was not the game people think it was, they lost most of their subscribers including me with the NGE, and what was left afterwards wasn't even remotely enjoyable for a lot of the original players.
Theres a reason the name NGE lives in infamy, and it isn't because afterwards the game suddenly did really well.
As cool as the VO content seems today, I'm very curious to see how that holds up. After leveing a couple toons during beta, I found that on the second beta weekend I was already starting to grow tired of the VO side quests.
That's what most of us that already played the game more than a weekend at a time have been trying to say....but we get shouted down all the time by the loud mouthed minority that won't tolerate any criticism off the game.
I look forward to seeing their posts this time next year when the game is all but forgotten, dead and buried while everyone raves about the next big game,,,,,,
I think it is telling that BW introduced the 'Skip Space Bar' option so early into the development of the game.
Basically, it appears that BW recognised what you both describe here, and put in the skip option -- rather than pretend that their story is so amazing that no one in their proper mind would ever wish to skip it.
The question I have is then, where is the content they are considering will be the 'hook' if it is not Story. Basically looking for more details about end game, world PvP and what not, and how it will be successful versions, rather than those failed versions of other mmos.
Well, considering I could skip dialog in any of Bioware's previous games I'm pretty sure that it was just a basic design principle, you are reading far too much into it.
Well, considering I could skip dialog in any of Bioware's previous games I'm pretty sure that it was just a basic design principle, you are reading far too much into it.
What is too much to read into it?
They included an option to 'skip' the dialogue/cinematic experience, which means by design they are not expecting the players to always enjoy the dialogue/cinematic experience. So people declaring that the game is only designed for those that enjoy those dialogue/cinematics and that such are the replayable assets, appear to be mistaken.
So the discussion should move towards the non-story assets, and how well they perform as enjoyable 'replayable' assets.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
SW:TOR is completely missing that very important aspect and takes Themepark to a whole new level, putting people on a full "On Rails" experience with very little exploration.
Not to mention that the game worlds itself are pretty lifeless with pretty much all NPC's and mobs being static stationary spawns, compared to World of Warcraft, EverQuest, LOTRO, Fallen Earth, etc.
That's what actually shocked me the most. As even an indy company like Icarus managed to create a more active/lively gameworld than a Multi million dollar funded project like SW:TOR.
EverQuest 2 (and another great example: Fallen Earth) actually rewards you for going out and explore the gameworld. Something vital I completely miss in SW:TOR.
Its one of the major reasons I was disappointed in Dragon Age II, but I thought they did it that way because they had too much tied up in making TOR.. turns out its more like Bioware's new way of doing map design, I guess. Previous Bioware games were linear of course, but somewhat more open, and still left more room for exploring than DA2 and TOR.
Like a lot of what they've done, I have to admit, it does seem 100% intentional. I just can't imagine why they think it's a good idea.
I agree about the dislike of this change from DAO to DA2. While I enjoyed DAO, I basically deleted DA2 with in the first hour of play more or less.
While I am not a sandbox fan --- hated SWG --- I see too much themepark rails to be a negative as well.
Well, considering I could skip dialog in any of Bioware's previous games I'm pretty sure that it was just a basic design principle, you are reading far too much into it.
What is too much to read into it?
They included an option to 'skip' the dialogue/cinematic experience, which means by design they are not expecting the players to always enjoy the dialogue/cinematic experience. So people declaring that the game is only designed for those that enjoy those dialogue/cinematics and that such are the replayable assets, appear to be mistaken.
So the discussion should move towards the non-story assets, and how well they perform as enjoyable 'replayable' assets.
Huh? did Bioware claim anywhere that everyone who will play SWTOR will enjoy the storyline? it is even silly to think that. How is anyone mistaken here? i enjoy storylines a lot but even i would want to skip them after i have seen them for 4 times already.
Is anyone forced to read the slow scrolling quest text? nope so why would anyone be denied the option to skip the cinematic dialouges?
i have no idea from where you made a connection to 'game is only desgined for those that enjoy dialogue/cinematics' and that adding an option to skip it somehow proves it wrong.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
I have to ask what alternate leveling path WOW had that TOR does not? TOR has Questing, Flashpoints, MOB grind (if you want it), PVP, and even space combat grants XP.
Edit- These alternate areas of leveling also make it so that you do not have to complete all quest hub content on your first playthrough, add to that the difference in class quests there's plenty to leave for alts that make leveling a second toon a different experience entirely. You can also level a thrid and forth toon the same way on the opposite side.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
SW:TOR is completely missing that very important aspect and takes Themepark to a whole new level, putting people on a full "On Rails" experience with very little exploration.
Not to mention that the game worlds itself are pretty lifeless with pretty much all NPC's and mobs being static stationary spawns, compared to World of Warcraft, EverQuest, LOTRO, Fallen Earth, etc.
That's what actually shocked me the most. As even an indy company like Icarus managed to create a more active/lively gameworld than a Multi million dollar funded project like SW:TOR.
EverQuest 2 (and another great example: Fallen Earth) actually rewards you for going out and explore the gameworld. Something vital I completely miss in SW:TOR.
Its one of the major reasons I was disappointed in Dragon Age II, but I thought they did it that way because they had too much tied up in making TOR.. turns out its more like Bioware's new way of doing map design, I guess. Previous Bioware games were linear of course, but somewhat more open, and still left more room for exploring than DA2 and TOR.
Like a lot of what they've done, I have to admit, it does seem 100% intentional. I just can't imagine why they think it's a good idea.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
I have to ask what alternate leveling path WOW had that TOR does not? TOR has Questing, Flashpoints, MOB grind (if you want it), PVP, and even space combat grants XP.
I would say that WoW has far more freedom to 'where' you level -- which quest lines you follow, what zones you quest in, etc. For example, as a Taren Shaman, you could leave your starting area and go off to say the Forsaken starting area and level up without much obsticle. Just seems to have more options than what TOR offers say a Trooper.
Originally posted by Loekii Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by JeroKane World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration. SW:TOR is completely missing that very important aspect and takes Themepark to a whole new level, putting people on a full "On Rails" experience with very little exploration. Not to mention that the game worlds itself are pretty lifeless with pretty much all NPC's and mobs being static stationary spawns, compared to World of Warcraft, EverQuest, LOTRO, Fallen Earth, etc. That's what actually shocked me the most. As even an indy company like Icarus managed to create a more active/lively gameworld than a Multi million dollar funded project like SW:TOR. EverQuest 2 (and another great example: Fallen Earth) actually rewards you for going out and explore the gameworld. Something vital I completely miss in SW:TOR.
Its one of the major reasons I was disappointed in Dragon Age II, but I thought they did it that way because they had too much tied up in making TOR.. turns out its more like Bioware's new way of doing map design, I guess. Previous Bioware games were linear of course, but somewhat more open, and still left more room for exploring than DA2 and TOR. Like a lot of what they've done, I have to admit, it does seem 100% intentional. I just can't imagine why they think it's a good idea. I agree about the dislike of this change from DAO to DA2. While I enjoyed DAO, I basically deleted DA2 with in the first hour of play more or less.
While I am not a sandbox fan --- hated SWG --- I see too much themepark rails to be a negative as well. I'll try to say this as politely as I can. You've been averaging about a dozen posts a day for the past week or so, all of which have something negative to say about ToR. I think we all get it now. Do you have anything else to contribute or should I just put you on ignore now? You seem like a sensible person, so I figured I'd ask first. Thanks!
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
I have to ask what alternate leveling path WOW had that TOR does not? TOR has Questing, Flashpoints, MOB grind (if you want it), PVP, and even space combat grants XP.
I would say that WoW has far more freedom to 'where' you level -- which quest lines you follow, what zones you quest in, etc. For example, as a Taren Shaman, you could leave your starting area and go off to say the Forsaken starting area and level up without much obsticle. Just seems to have more options than what TOR offers say a Trooper.
Have you played TOR? Also read the edit.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its a shame that we as gamers now a days blow through content like we do bags of Doritos, cause we then get up in arms about having zero to do once we are at "end game". Would be nice to get that same attitude towards books.. ya know, finish one really fast and then, go to the next one and wait for the last author to put out "new content" for us to go to.
And to talk about quiting a game then returning once new content is out , well, I'd hate to jinx us all but you would think that the companies know we all we do that, so why no one has done anything like charge a re-activation fee (ya know like 2 bucks for coming back) is abit odd. (Dont hurt me for suggesting! haha). Just saying, people always say they want money rather than make content, this is a way to make some extra bucks when you toss out content, a small way but, none the less a way hehe
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
I have to ask what alternate leveling path WOW had that TOR does not? TOR has Questing, Flashpoints, MOB grind (if you want it), PVP, and even space combat grants XP.
Edit- These alternate areas of leveling also make it so that you do not have to complete all quest hub content on your first playthrough, add to that the difference in class quests there's plenty to leave for alts that make leveling a second toon a different experience entirely. You can also level a thrid and forth toon the same way on the opposite side.
It's simple.
In WOW, even at launch, you had plenty of areas to choose where to do your questing.
You can't do that in SWTOR.
And looks like the "bonus quests" aren't so bonus now... you actually have to do all of them if you want to lvl up with quests alone... well, that's dissapointing.
And i also find a bit sad to see closed beta testers that have been playing the game for months outright LIE just to try to defend their sacred game and sell a couple of boxes.
Seriously guys, Bioware doesn't care about you, stop trying to help them, lying to other people isn't good
EDIT: Being able to lvl up with instances, BG's and space combat is laughable, please, don't even mention it.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
In WOW, even at launch, you had plenty of areas to choose where to do your questing.
You can't do that in SWTOR.
And looks like the "bonus quests" aren't so bonus now... you actually have to do all of them if you want to lvl up with quests alone... well, that's dissapointing.
And i also find a bit sad to see closed beta testers that have been playing the game for months outright LIE just to try to defend their sacred game and sell a couple of boxes.
Seriously guys, Bioware doesn't care about you, stop trying to help them, lying to other people isn't good
What am I lying about? In TOR no you don't have more than one option in starting areas to level a specific class. That's about the biggest difference I can make out. Still please point out what i lied about? This is how I played for over three months.
I should point out I was level 8-9 when I left the starting worlds, but that's how I typcially play themeparks anyway, (hardly do content within my level range) ( at 9 I prefer to fight stuff level 11 and up as an example). Had to do one or two quests on the second planet before I could get my advanced class ( backtrack) but last I read they've upped XP gains to level 10 which should fix that issue.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Syllendale Its a shame that we as gamers now a days blow through content like we do bags of Doritos, cause we then get up in arms about having zero to do once we are at "end game". Would be nice to get that same attitude towards books.. ya know, finish one really fast and then, go to the next one and wait for the last author to put out "new content" for us to go to. And to talk about quiting a game then returning once new content is out , well, I'd hate to jinx us all but you would think that the companies know we all we do that, so why no one has done anything like charge a re-activation fee (ya know like 2 bucks for coming back) is abit odd. (Dont hurt me for suggesting! haha). Just saying, people always say they want money rather than make content, this is a way to make some extra bucks when you toss out content, a small way but, none the less a way hehe
Books generally have closure. Single player games generally have closure. Sure there's some jerks who think they're creative by not including.
MMOs, well they have end game and if you're lucky you can ride the rides long enough to get tokens to get the same gear as everyone else.
Obviously if there isn't significant updates to that system from time to time it feels broken / stale.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
I have to ask what alternate leveling path WOW had that TOR does not? TOR has Questing, Flashpoints, MOB grind (if you want it), PVP, and even space combat grants XP.
Edit- These alternate areas of leveling also make it so that you do not have to complete all quest hub content on your first playthrough, add to that the difference in class quests there's plenty to leave for alts that make leveling a second toon a different experience entirely. You can also level a thrid and forth toon the same way on the opposite side.
It's simple.
In WOW, even at launch, you had plenty of areas to choose where to do your questing.
You can't do that in SWTOR.
And looks like the "bonus quests" aren't so bonus now... you actually have to do all of them if you want to lvl up with quests alone... well, that's dissapointing.
And i also find a bit sad to see closed beta testers that have been playing the game for months outright LIE just to try to defend their sacred game and sell a couple of boxes.
Seriously guys, Bioware doesn't care about you, stop trying to help them, lying to other people isn't good
What am I lying about? In TOR no you don't have more than one option in starting areas to level a specific class. That's about the biggest difference I can make out. Still please point out what i lied about? This is how I played for over three months.
I wasn't talking about you, you never lied, sorry if it wasn't clear :P
But the problem is not only in starting areas... the fact that you have to do 90% of the same quests for every character of the same faction is a flaw... there is no other way to look at it.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time." otacu
The question I have about the edit is the quality you get from playing those alternative forms of advancement.
Looking at a number of reviews about TOR, I have not seen a lot of positive praise about all those alternative forms of advancements (for example grinding mobs, or playing the Space game). In fact, I have seen some pretty credible criticisms about them, with out much rebuttle other than fan opinion.
I have also seen criticisms that the game is far too linerar if you wanted to try to play the story PvE aspects of the game (ie you basically have to follow the Class Story direction and the single path it tends to lay out for you). This is what I mean by WoW seems to be less linear than TOR, and similarly to how DAO was less linear than DA2.
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
I had to the ability to level 6 toons to 15-25 in the few betas i had and i did get completley different feel each time. once i skipped all the bonus and leveled just fine, and others i chose different answers which changes taskes and direction of some quests. most of the quests stayed the same regardless of my answers but there where many that sent me to do diferent things.
This is a casual game, targeted at casual gamers. Bioware shouldn't be concerned about power gamers who chew through content, no matter how much content that game has. Companies always run into trouble when they try to set a game's pace to match that of the power gamer's. So far, Bioware strikes me as a company that not only KNOWS it's target audience, but isn't going to be swayed by the ever whining power gamers who cry about lack of leveling and end game content two weeks after release.
Two weeks after release? I expect to hear the lament of power gamers a few days after launch. In fact, before launch since they probably have early start.
Comments
I am actually asking for a more neutral opinon.
Again, for example, Voice Overs are generally considered a better form of handing out quests as opposed to a wall of text. Yes that is an opinion, but it is one that most people generally agree with.
On the contrary, saying TOR's gameplay is fun, is a much more specific opinion, and not as general as the above opinion.
So what I was asking for, were are there any examples of where TOR excels in a more general sense (like it does with VOs), rather than the more specific opinions he presented.
alright here goes.
Voice overs have been covered.
The crafting system is superior to most themepark crafting systems because you are adding a layer of business management to the equation. You play the roll of a small business owner tracking up to 5 employees simultaneously and queue up multiple actions per employee. Operation are based on your ship complete with crafting stations. Aside from crafting, gathering, and various missions, you will also be able to mod equipment up through level cap as well as reverse engineer previously made items for resources and a chance at an improved recipe.
I didnt get to pvp last couple weekends but the crafting system alone is good enough to be its own game for anyone who wants to do something else in TOR
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
World of Warcraft had plenty of alternate leveling paths right out of the bat when it launched. Plus the zones were vast and non-instanced with lots of exploration.
SW:TOR is completely missing that very important aspect and takes Themepark to a whole new level, putting people on a full "On Rails" experience with very little exploration.
Not to mention that the game worlds itself are pretty lifeless with pretty much all NPC's and mobs being static stationary spawns, compared to World of Warcraft, EverQuest, LOTRO, Fallen Earth, etc.
That's what actually shocked me the most. As even an indy company like Icarus managed to create a more active/lively gameworld than a Multi million dollar funded project like SW:TOR.
EverQuest 2 (and another great example: Fallen Earth) actually rewards you for going out and explore the gameworld. Something vital I completely miss in SW:TOR.
I wish he said, 'We plan on adding numerous games systems akin to a sandbox that will enhance the game for all players and add depth to the world as well as end game.'
Its one of the major reasons I was disappointed in Dragon Age II, but I thought they did it that way because they had too much tied up in making TOR.. turns out its more like Bioware's new way of doing map design, I guess. Previous Bioware games were linear of course, but somewhat more open, and still left more room for exploring than DA2 and TOR.
Like a lot of what they've done, I have to admit, it does seem 100% intentional. I just can't imagine why they think it's a good idea.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
If you are an investor in the game then yes. But I am a customer and I dont care jack shit if a game makes a ton of cash or not, as long as it makes enough to keep going. What I care about if I enjoy the game or not. If I dont enjoy the game and it makes a ton of money for its investors, why would that matter to me?
You seem way hung up about the dollar value of something. I am more interested in the value it brings to my spare time.
And just for the record, SWG was making money, it had a solid subscriber base and showed higher numbers on XFire than EQ 2, CoX, Champions Online (before it went F2P), DAoC and lots of other known MMORPGs. It was killed, most likely, because Lucasarts wanted to make more money on SW:TOR so they probably requested SOE to discontinue the game. You think it is a coincidence that it was killed just when SW:TOR was being hyped up for release?
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So atleast you understand it is about the value it brings to players. I wonder where all this enlightment goes when you try to incite those who enjoy SWTOR day after day by making un necessary comparisons with SWG.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
We all know Xfire is the most reliable way to track games, so you may have a point. But it doesn't matter if you don't like a game or, even if you do... what matters to everyone else is whether THEY like the game. SWG was not the game people think it was, they lost most of their subscribers including me with the NGE, and what was left afterwards wasn't even remotely enjoyable for a lot of the original players.
Theres a reason the name NGE lives in infamy, and it isn't because afterwards the game suddenly did really well.
Well, considering I could skip dialog in any of Bioware's previous games I'm pretty sure that it was just a basic design principle, you are reading far too much into it.
What is too much to read into it?
They included an option to 'skip' the dialogue/cinematic experience, which means by design they are not expecting the players to always enjoy the dialogue/cinematic experience. So people declaring that the game is only designed for those that enjoy those dialogue/cinematics and that such are the replayable assets, appear to be mistaken.
So the discussion should move towards the non-story assets, and how well they perform as enjoyable 'replayable' assets.
I agree about the dislike of this change from DAO to DA2. While I enjoyed DAO, I basically deleted DA2 with in the first hour of play more or less.
While I am not a sandbox fan --- hated SWG --- I see too much themepark rails to be a negative as well.
Huh? did Bioware claim anywhere that everyone who will play SWTOR will enjoy the storyline? it is even silly to think that. How is anyone mistaken here? i enjoy storylines a lot but even i would want to skip them after i have seen them for 4 times already.
Is anyone forced to read the slow scrolling quest text? nope so why would anyone be denied the option to skip the cinematic dialouges?
i have no idea from where you made a connection to 'game is only desgined for those that enjoy dialogue/cinematics' and that adding an option to skip it somehow proves it wrong.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I have to ask what alternate leveling path WOW had that TOR does not? TOR has Questing, Flashpoints, MOB grind (if you want it), PVP, and even space combat grants XP.
Edit- These alternate areas of leveling also make it so that you do not have to complete all quest hub content on your first playthrough, add to that the difference in class quests there's plenty to leave for alts that make leveling a second toon a different experience entirely. You can also level a thrid and forth toon the same way on the opposite side.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Works for RPGs too now apparently.
I would say that WoW has far more freedom to 'where' you level -- which quest lines you follow, what zones you quest in, etc. For example, as a Taren Shaman, you could leave your starting area and go off to say the Forsaken starting area and level up without much obsticle. Just seems to have more options than what TOR offers say a Trooper.
That does seem to be a good illustration of the concern.
Its one of the major reasons I was disappointed in Dragon Age II, but I thought they did it that way because they had too much tied up in making TOR.. turns out its more like Bioware's new way of doing map design, I guess. Previous Bioware games were linear of course, but somewhat more open, and still left more room for exploring than DA2 and TOR.
Like a lot of what they've done, I have to admit, it does seem 100% intentional. I just can't imagine why they think it's a good idea.
I agree about the dislike of this change from DAO to DA2. While I enjoyed DAO, I basically deleted DA2 with in the first hour of play more or less.
While I am not a sandbox fan --- hated SWG --- I see too much themepark rails to be a negative as well.
I'll try to say this as politely as I can. You've been averaging about a dozen posts a day for the past week or so, all of which have something negative to say about ToR. I think we all get it now. Do you have anything else to contribute or should I just put you on ignore now? You seem like a sensible person, so I figured I'd ask first. Thanks!
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Have you played TOR? Also read the edit.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its a shame that we as gamers now a days blow through content like we do bags of Doritos, cause we then get up in arms about having zero to do once we are at "end game". Would be nice to get that same attitude towards books.. ya know, finish one really fast and then, go to the next one and wait for the last author to put out "new content" for us to go to.
And to talk about quiting a game then returning once new content is out , well, I'd hate to jinx us all but you would think that the companies know we all we do that, so why no one has done anything like charge a re-activation fee (ya know like 2 bucks for coming back) is abit odd. (Dont hurt me for suggesting! haha). Just saying, people always say they want money rather than make content, this is a way to make some extra bucks when you toss out content, a small way but, none the less a way hehe
It's simple.
In WOW, even at launch, you had plenty of areas to choose where to do your questing.
You can't do that in SWTOR.
And looks like the "bonus quests" aren't so bonus now... you actually have to do all of them if you want to lvl up with quests alone... well, that's dissapointing.
And i also find a bit sad to see closed beta testers that have been playing the game for months outright LIE just to try to defend their sacred game and sell a couple of boxes.
Seriously guys, Bioware doesn't care about you, stop trying to help them, lying to other people isn't good
EDIT: Being able to lvl up with instances, BG's and space combat is laughable, please, don't even mention it.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
What am I lying about? In TOR no you don't have more than one option in starting areas to level a specific class. That's about the biggest difference I can make out. Still please point out what i lied about? This is how I played for over three months.
I should point out I was level 8-9 when I left the starting worlds, but that's how I typcially play themeparks anyway, (hardly do content within my level range) ( at 9 I prefer to fight stuff level 11 and up as an example). Had to do one or two quests on the second planet before I could get my advanced class ( backtrack) but last I read they've upped XP gains to level 10 which should fix that issue.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Books generally have closure. Single player games generally have closure. Sure there's some jerks who think they're creative by not including.
MMOs, well they have end game and if you're lucky you can ride the rides long enough to get tokens to get the same gear as everyone else.
Obviously if there isn't significant updates to that system from time to time it feels broken / stale.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I wasn't talking about you, you never lied, sorry if it wasn't clear :P
But the problem is not only in starting areas... the fact that you have to do 90% of the same quests for every character of the same faction is a flaw... there is no other way to look at it.
"Esport with tournaments is for hardcore pvp'rs that want to be competitive. Openworld PVP with ganking and griefing is for casuals that just wants their pvp mixed with pve from time to time."
otacu
The question I have about the edit is the quality you get from playing those alternative forms of advancement.
Looking at a number of reviews about TOR, I have not seen a lot of positive praise about all those alternative forms of advancements (for example grinding mobs, or playing the Space game). In fact, I have seen some pretty credible criticisms about them, with out much rebuttle other than fan opinion.
I have also seen criticisms that the game is far too linerar if you wanted to try to play the story PvE aspects of the game (ie you basically have to follow the Class Story direction and the single path it tends to lay out for you). This is what I mean by WoW seems to be less linear than TOR, and similarly to how DAO was less linear than DA2.
Now I am open to the point that I may be mistaken, but I do want to see more than opinoins that basically mandate that you are fan of the game, BW, etc. Rather I am looking for things like, 'here is an example of a Trooper playing outside the Class quest or playing on a World outside the standard Trooper path',
I had to the ability to level 6 toons to 15-25 in the few betas i had and i did get completley different feel each time. once i skipped all the bonus and leveled just fine, and others i chose different answers which changes taskes and direction of some quests. most of the quests stayed the same regardless of my answers but there where many that sent me to do diferent things.
Two weeks after release? I expect to hear the lament of power gamers a few days after launch. In fact, before launch since they probably have early start.
I self identify as a monkey.